He's on a great team, great matchup. Had alot of solid runs last week, and isn't just getting heavy package looks anymore, which means his touches won't just be vs a stacked box. Will get at least 15 carries, and probably 20. On a bye week, to me that means he's pretty much a no brainer, unless your lineup is already stacked.He hasn't done one thing all year to warrant starting him with any degree of confidence. I'd trade him but he has zero value right now.I'm starting him in my flex in one league (over L. Moore, D Moore, N Washington, Addai, even redman if Mende sits).I'm also starting Pierre as my RB2 in anotherAt any rate, if you are not going to play him this week, you may as well trade him.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Mark Ingram (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter shader
- Start date
GreenNGold
Footballguy
You did not say he might be a bye in replacement, you said he was essentially a must-start this week. Yes he is on a great team but he is very far down the food chain. I would not start him over a player who has proven he can put up points this year, such as D. Moore. I wouldn't start him over Addai either. I am starting Lynch over Ingram in one league, and I will be starting Benson (if he isn't suspended) over Ingram in another.He's on a great team, great matchup. Had alot of solid runs last week, and isn't just getting heavy package looks anymore, which means his touches won't just be vs a stacked box. Will get at least 15 carries, and probably 20. On a bye week, to me that means he's pretty much a no brainer, unless your lineup is already stacked.He hasn't done one thing all year to warrant starting him with any degree of confidence. I'd trade him but he has zero value right now.I'm starting him in my flex in one league (over L. Moore, D Moore, N Washington, Addai, even redman if Mende sits).I'm also starting Pierre as my RB2 in another
Last edited by a moderator:
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
I was gonna ask him how many carries has Ingram had inside the 5. Thanks
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Im going to start him, but then again my teams suck this year so far and Ive started him every week.In one league, my teams so bad starting Pierre in the 2nd flex might even be my best option
GreenNGold
Footballguy
Why theI was gonna ask him how many carries has Ingram had inside the 5. Thanks
? Because he is on pace for 4 goal line carries this entire season?
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
No, because you said "Ingram has failed in every GL opp he has had" and he's only had 1Why theI was gonna ask him how many carries has Ingram had inside the 5. Thanks
Mr Rodgers neighborhood
Footballguy
Color me disappointed that Sean Payton was still letting Brees air it out up 13 with six minutes left in the game. He's a volume carry guy. And he's not getting them. I'm nearing panic mode because I'm forced to use him in my dynasty. The panic isn't because he's failed, but because he's not getting a chance to fail.'Abraham said:
A volume carry guy? Guys who average 3YPC don't get a lot of carries. He needs to earn carries, and by performing so poorly he won't be given them.
packersfan
Footballguy
Ingram received his highest number of touches in Week 4. He is the only Saints RB who has been given double-digit carries in a game this season (that's happened in every game but one and in the one game he got nine carries). Ingram hasn't set the world on fire but the idea that he's playing "poorly" doesn't appear to be shared by the Saints' coaching staff.
shadyridr
Footballguy
whats his YPC?
packersfan
Footballguy
3.5.
Last edited by a moderator:
Payton is a fool when it comes to Ingram. he said in an interview his kid kept texting him how he needed to get Ingram and he didn't want to disappoint him. Obv I'm sure he didn't do it purely because of that, but I'm sure it had an influence on his judgement.NE, who wanted rb help as evidenced by the drafting of Vereen and Ridley traded out of the Ingram pick. He is media hype who had a big year playing for a dominant 2009 Alabama team. His talent is highly over-rated and one of the best front offices in the NFL choose to trade out of the pick instead of drafting the stiff.He had some of the worst combine numbers for a 1st round rb ever.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
And combine #s mean everything.
packersfan
Footballguy
Maybe so. All I'm saying is there appears to be a rather sharp disconnect between how some fantasy owners feel about Ingram and how Payton feels about him. Based on carries and touches, it seems rather clear Payton doesn't believe Ingram sucks or is playing poorly. Payton's opinion is the only one that counts so the fact he keeps using Ingram extensively and is featuring him in different ways as the season goes on isn't something that should be readily dismissed in my opinion. I'd be concerned if Ingram's role was showing any signs of decreasing. Instead, the contrary is true. That bodes well for his fantasy value going forward. Of course, he needs to capitalize on the opportunities he's given and that's where I believe his greatest room for improvement resides.
Marshawn Lynch who has less carries, less yards, less yards per carry and is playing on a team with one of the worst offenses in the NFL vs a guy who is getting the ball more and producing more, not to mention is much more talented, on one of the best offenses in the NFL? I don't see a single reason why anyone should ever play Lynch over Ingram. He might score more this week but there is no evidence there to base this decision on'GreenNGold said:
I agree with you that he will keep using Ingram this year regardless of how badly he performs. He used Reggie bush a lot for a couple years despite poor performance. Payton has to believe in his 1st round picks, at least for awhile before admitting defeat by playing him less.My point is that Ingram isn't what many on here thought and what some still think. He isn't some elite talent and never was.
packersfan
Footballguy
You could be right. I think he does have terrific talent; not elite but very good. I think the best is yet to come for Ingram.
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
It's also worth noting that Belichick is good friends with Nick Saban so you know Belichick got unbiased feedback on Ingram leading up to the draft. So when he effectively passed on Ingram I felt that it was quite telling. Not saying Ingram is a bust, but just that maybe BB had some insights that others didn't from people who saw this kid every day and who know what it takes to be an NFL RB...just a thought.
Papa Georgio
Footballguy
I am not sure any more about the guy but I do think too much is being made about the ypc. He was around 5 yards a carry until clock killing time. Also getting a lot of work in short yardage situations will skew the numbers. I said this earlier and will say it again I would love to see him in for an entire drive on every down for about 3 series in a row. I think I would have a better feel for his ability that way. I think he is being misused to an extent but at some point he will need to show more than he has.
packersfan
Footballguy
Not saying Belichick's right or wrong here but his draft record hasn't exactly been all that impressive lately.
nysportsfan
Footballguy
Bill is great, but he isn't perfect. The jury is way out on Ingram, so he still may have made the wrong call.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I love how people in this thread are harping on his YPC. He's had many short-yardage attempts (yes, that mostly failed) that have lowered his YPC. You know, attempts where the defense KNOWS he's attempting to get that one single yard. That will kill any RB's average YPC.
shadyridr
Footballguy
some guy earlier said hes had one carry inside the 5 yd line. 1 <> many. hope that helps
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Carries inside the 5 yard line only do not = short-yardage attempts. Hope that helps.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
3rd & 1 doesnt have to be inside the 5 yard line
shadyridr
Footballguy
GreenNGold
Footballguy
The apologists will say whatever it takes to convince themselves. They have an excuse for everything.Exhibit A: This thread.
Last edited by a moderator:
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Huh? The point is that when many of your carries are specifically in obvious short-yardage situations, the defense can prepare for that. There's no mystery to what's going to happen when you see Ingram lined up and its 3rd-and-1, or 4th-and-1, as opposed to 1st-and-10 or 2nd-and-7 or something. That is automatically going to lower a RB's YPC, and the first game or two, Ingram was being used very often in that role, almost exclusively. Even when they convert, not many RB's get more than that yard or two on a short-yardage call. Because the defense stacks the line.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
There is no use discussing this with you in this thread. It would be much more productive if you would just leave this particular topic. You're the least rational poster on this topic that I've seen, because you were burned by FBG's recommendation of Ingram. We get it. If you just want to talk #### about him, then take that to the venting thread. Otherwise, this doesn't seem to be the place for what you have to say.Edit: And just to clarify, this doesn't mean that this isn't the place for negative talk about Ingram. It means this isn't the place for your whining and obviously agenda-driven bitterness.
Last edited by a moderator:
Even if you remove his 3rd and 4th down with 2 yards or less attempts he is at 3.5 YPC. That reasoning doesn't hold up. He has been bad relative to his backfield counterparts.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
How could his YPC be the same if you remove those attempts? That doesn't make sense.
When you remove the attempts you have to remove the yards he got on those attempts.The argument was that his low YPC was due to him being in a lot of obvious running situations. Even with those attempts removed his YPC is bad.
GreenNGold
Footballguy
I am also the most correct poster in this thread. Ingram is a complete bust. The sooner you can come to grips with that, the better off you (and your fantasy future) will be.Sometimes the truth hurts. I'm over my pick of him and have moved on. I'm still going to try to help others in the same situation.
Last edited by a moderator:
shadyridr
Footballguy
You have stats to back this theory up? Just seems like another excuse in a long list of excuses.
shadyridr
Footballguy
GreenNGold
Footballguy
Lynch is winning the category that matters, and that is fantasy points (PPR but you are excluding receiving yards too). He also has a much better outlook the remainder of the year.
Last edited by a moderator:
shadyridr
Footballguy
Ingram's situational stats
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/24815/situational
Hes had 8 carries on 3rd or 4th and < 3 yds. On those 8 carries he has 21 yds. Take those totals out of his season totals and he has 45 carries for 163 yds for a 3.6 YPC.
EXCUSE #451 - REJECTED
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/24815/situational
Hes had 8 carries on 3rd or 4th and < 3 yds. On those 8 carries he has 21 yds. Take those totals out of his season totals and he has 45 carries for 163 yds for a 3.6 YPC.
EXCUSE #451 - REJECTED
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Haha possibly. I just thought I had already read somewhere that when you remove his numerous failed short-yardage attempts (where he would presumably get a yard or less per carry), his YPC was respectable. I'll try to find it, as I don't feel like doing the math myself. But I could absolutely be wrong. Just seemed unlikely to me that his YPC would stay exactly the same when you remove all of his "worst-situation" attempts which presumably would have netted him the least yardage.simple math down?
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
You sound so ignorant, claiming that you know that Ingram is a bust after 4 entire games. Its hilarious.What did you say about DMC? Charles? There have been plenty of rookie RB's who broke out later.Its perfectly reasonable to think that he's useless this year in re-draft, or even that he will bust entirely. But to act like you KNOW that he will, after such a short amount of time, is insulting to this entire board. Its below the normal standards of discussion here (excluding a select few terrible posters).Feel free to have strong opinions, and express them. But to act as if you KNOW something that you can't possibly know is ridiculous. You obviously are not over this pick, and have not moved on, because you keep gravitating back towards this thread to contribute nothing but ####-slinging and bitterness.
Don't bother wasting your time, the numbers are a fact, no article can dispute that and the Ingram YPC myth has been debunked.His poor YPC has nothing to do with being put into obvious running situations like his backers claim.Also his combine 10 yard split time being incredible is also a myth, give his agent credit for that hogwash the media ran with.Haha possibly. I just thought I had already read somewhere that when you remove his numerous failed short-yardage attempts (where he would presumably get a yard or less per carry), his YPC was respectable. I'll try to find it, as I don't feel like doing the math myself. But I could absolutely be wrong. Just seemed unlikely to me that his YPC would stay exactly the same when you remove all of his "worst-situation" attempts which presumably would have netted him the least yardage.
how does he have a better outlook? Scott Chandler and Doug Baldwin have more points so far as well, you start them? Yes Lynch has 7 recs to Ingrams 4 but I think it is a bit hyperbolic to come in here with arguments like this, it's obvious you have something personal against Ingram.
GreenNGold
Footballguy
Not just 7 receptions to 4, but 50 yards to ZERO. Also, Seattle, despite being a terrible team, is starting to produce better. I also think (but could be wrong) that Seattle has an injured offensive lineman coming back soon that should help. On the other hand, New Orleans already has 3 RB's, with Ingram being the worst, and the possibility of Ivory coming back and taking even more of the pie.EDIT: In before all Ingram apologists claim defenses were gunning for Ingram receptions.
Last edited by a moderator:
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I don't think Ivory will be a factor unless someone gets hurt. I doubt they'll activate and play all four RB's on gameday.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Why is it that anyone who believes in Ingram's talent is an "Ingram apologist"?
That kind of blatant labeling is just a flawed response to a debate. Its unnecessary, and waters down every discussion its ever been introduced into.
Its okay that we believe in Ingram's talent and you don't. Its okay that we don't think what he's done is going to be a precursor to his entire career, and you do.
That doesn't make us "apologists".
That doesn't make you "haters".
Drop the labels. Its childish. We can all have differing opinions without demonizing the "opposition" with this propagandist tool. Respectful disagreement on a player or prospect is possible, and should be encouraged, since its impossible to know who's correct right now.
That kind of blatant labeling is just a flawed response to a debate. Its unnecessary, and waters down every discussion its ever been introduced into.
Its okay that we believe in Ingram's talent and you don't. Its okay that we don't think what he's done is going to be a precursor to his entire career, and you do.
That doesn't make us "apologists".
That doesn't make you "haters".
Drop the labels. Its childish. We can all have differing opinions without demonizing the "opposition" with this propagandist tool. Respectful disagreement on a player or prospect is possible, and should be encouraged, since its impossible to know who's correct right now.
Mr Rodgers neighborhood
Footballguy
Meaning that he wears on defenses and gets going later in the game. Realize that his YPC is skewed and you need to put into context when and where he's getting those carries. Guys used in short yardage and plays where everyone knows it's a run is going to have a lower YPC.
Mr Rodgers neighborhood
Footballguy
Actually I remember his numbers at the combine being very good. Instead of looking at raw numbers in a vacume you need to dig a little deeper. He's a big power back. He's not a tiny scat back. And your 40 numbers are out dated. His explosion within a 10 yard space is more than impressive.
Mr Rodgers neighborhood
Footballguy
He was at 4.5 YPC in the first half on Sunday. When they were using him in a normal situation. When they started trying to run the clock out it was clear he was getting the ball, the D adjusted and his YPC dipped. Do you care to look up those numbers?Don't bother wasting your time, the numbers are a fact, no article can dispute that and the Ingram YPC myth has been debunked.His poor YPC has nothing to do with being put into obvious running situations like his backers claim.Also his combine 10 yard split time being incredible is also a myth, give his agent credit for that hogwash the media ran with.Haha possibly. I just thought I had already read somewhere that when you remove his numerous failed short-yardage attempts (where he would presumably get a yard or less per carry), his YPC was respectable. I'll try to find it, as I don't feel like doing the math myself. But I could absolutely be wrong. Just seemed unlikely to me that his YPC would stay exactly the same when you remove all of his "worst-situation" attempts which presumably would have netted him the least yardage.
