Mark Ingram (6 Viewers)

[SaintsInDome2006]

The Times-Picayune says that if this were Mark Ingram's rookie training camp, "the buzz would probably be through the roof by now."
Ingram spent the first two years of his NFL career battling knee and toe issues. Now healthy, he's looking "strong, fast and fluid." Ingram is battling Pierre Thomas for carries in base formations. There's reason to believe he'll vastly improve on his career 3.87 YPC in 2013.

isn't Thomas list a top of the depth chart?

The Picayune like several other media outlets around here are gaga-crazy for the Saints, this is what the team wants to put out.

If Ingram finally rises to something big he will have to do it in game time, and he will have to make big plays such that will negate the Saints (justified) penchant for plugging in RBs to tailor certain mismatches.

And the only way he can really do that is either make long runs or learn to catch and run the screen as that is a big part of what they do. I'll believe it when I see it.

His role was always to be a reliable to unstoppable third and short and goalline back. He's still not Larry Csonka as far as that's concerned either.

 

[Grahamburn]

No reason to think anything is changing here.

 

[Shutout]

Well, some people practically had him in the Hall of Fame before he ever played a down so I guess this doesn't surprise me. I don't trust media outlets that only have one game in town. Everything gets spun out of control.

 

[az_prof]

I don't hold out much hope for Ingram because RBs usually show something in their first two seasons, but he does have pedigree, so if he gets an opportunity there is a possibility he will be worth something. How old are Thomas and Sproles? Could age begin to be a factor for them?

Spiller comes to mind as a player that was not very good his 1st two seasons and came on strong in his 3rd.....there are other examples I am sure

Thomas Jones, Darren McFadden, and Cedric Benson are three guys who did little to nothing their first 2 years. Spiller looked like crap his first year, but cracked 5 ypc his second year giving everybody a heads up that should he see some time in year 3 that he could explode. So he doesn't fit in this category.

Either way, the book is not written on Ingram. Should he find himself getting 250+ carries per season on a team then I think he'll be solid. But will his knees ever hold up to that load? I'm not sure, but I'm not going to write him off like some jaded previous owners have.

Id be surprised if he gets much more than 200 carries. He's an afterthought in the passing game, at least situationally. I think he is one of the safer RB3's, at least relative to cost (Bradhsaw, Gio, BJGE basically going 2 rounds before him), but he isnt getting 250 carries unless Sproles or Pierre gets longterm injured.

I don't know what to expect in terms of carries--I think there is a large range of what is possible. If he were to get what he had last year plus Ivory's carries, he would be close to 200 carries. This seems very possible.

Yes, thats why I said if he gets more than 200 carries itd be surprised. Just as surprised as Id be if Ingram got all 40 of Ivory's carries and those touches werent spread out between him, Sproles, and Pierre

I agree that I too would be surprised if Ingram got 250 carries or more; I doubt that happens without significant injuries to Thomas and Sproles. But on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him get all 40 of Ivory's carries and to end up with 200 carries, give or take 10. Why? Ivory was used in similar situations and the other two guys were used more in the passing game than either Ingram or Ivory.

I expect:

200/840 yards/7 TD, 10 receptions for 60 yards

Upper ceiling if there are injuries that keep the other guys out for 4 or more games?

250/1050/9 TD, 30 receptions for 200 yards

 

[ODannyBoy]

from KFFL.com:

Saints | Mark Ingram improved in second half of seasonNew Orleans Saints RB Mark Ingram rushed for 178 yards and one touchdown in the first eight games of the 2012 season but rushed for 424 yards and four touchdowns in the second half of the season.

2013-05-16 16:09:49 | Source: New Orleans Times-Picayune - Mike Triplett

I like how KFFL fails to mention in the first 8 games Ingram had 47 carries while in the last 8 games he had 109 carries.

It only took a little bit over twice the number of carries for him to improve his ypc by .14 yards

They did double his carries over that time frame, which is a good thing if that workload continues.

While getting more carries is a good thing, I find that YPC to be negligible. Also, in those last 8 games Sproles missed 3 games, Pierre 1 game (all different weeks), and 2 of those games when Sproles was out Ivory had much better numbers than Ingram.

Him getting more carries is a good thing, Im just not buying that he gets >50 carries over Pierre, and Sproles snaps/touches limits his ceiling to 190-200 carries. That said, I think he is as safe as any of the RBs going around him and is decent value because of that, but barring an injury to Sproles or Pierre, I dont think he ends up a RB2.

Pierre has had better year end stats the last 2 years. Im not expecting that to happen again, but Pierre is also going 40+ picks later at RB49. That seems like an even better value for someone who has finished RB27 and RB33 the last 2 years.

Why would they be obligated to mention that his ypc was about the same? More carries at a similar ypc still means more yards than before which is a good thing. So by definition he was more productive in the second half of the season than the first. You acknowledge this. I often shake my head at some of the news and analysis that comes across the wires, but I'm not sure why you are nitpicking KFFL for posting that blurb.

 

[ODannyBoy]

I don't hold out much hope for Ingram because RBs usually show something in their first two seasons, but he does have pedigree, so if he gets an opportunity there is a possibility he will be worth something. How old are Thomas and Sproles? Could age begin to be a factor for them?

Spiller comes to mind as a player that was not very good his 1st two seasons and came on strong in his 3rd.....there are other examples I am sure

Thomas Jones, Darren McFadden, and Cedric Benson are three guys who did little to nothing their first 2 years. Spiller looked like crap his first year, but cracked 5 ypc his second year giving everybody a heads up that should he see some time in year 3 that he could explode. So he doesn't fit in this category.

Either way, the book is not written on Ingram. Should he find himself getting 250+ carries per season on a team then I think he'll be solid. But will his knees ever hold up to that load? I'm not sure, but I'm not going to write him off like some jaded previous owners have.

Spiller had all of 74 carries his rookie season. Tough to say he looked like crap. He was behind a very productive Fred Jackson, showed explosiveness at times, and showed he could be productive as a receiver. You have to take rookie seasons with a grain of salt. The potential was certainly there (as was the 4.3 speed). It was only a matter of opportunity and time.

Ingram is still young. And last year was a lost season for the Saints. One could give him some benefit of the doubt but, of course, the injuries are a concern. I've added him to my lost of potential buy lows as I think the general perception of him is poor.

That's my take as well. A good portion of the market has over-reacted I think. The expectations were unrealistically high his rookie season and now people are saying, "What was I thinking to draft this bum?".

He was never a supremely gifted athlete. If people didn't realize that, the fault is on them. But the less quantifiable things like vision, patience, etc. are the things he actually had going for him coming out of college. Go back and read the scouting reports on him. It's ironic that people now describe him as lacking in those same things now. I think that happens because they need a reason to explain and excuse how they missed on him and need to put the blame on his talent (or lack thereof) rather than their mistaken assumptions concerning his situation and usage.

 

[Banger]

I think I might take the plunge as a RB4 if his value is good. His floor is likely RB30ish which is likely lower than his ADP. If Sproles/Thomas gets hurt he may have a decent upside, he's the goal line back so he could pop in a couple extra TDs. While they certainly aren't a running team, they've expressed interest in running more and he's the primary runner, especially with Ivory gone so it seems like a fairly low risk/decent upside move.

 

[ODannyBoy]

The Times-Picayune says that if this were Mark Ingram's rookie training camp, "the buzz would probably be through the roof by now."
Ingram spent the first two years of his NFL career battling knee and toe issues. Now healthy, he's looking "strong, fast and fluid." Ingram is battling Pierre Thomas for carries in base formations. There's reason to believe he'll vastly improve on his career 3.87 YPC in 2013.

isn't Thomas list a top of the depth chart?

The Picayune like several other media outlets around here are gaga-crazy for the Saints, this is what the team wants to put out.

If Ingram finally rises to something big he will have to do it in game time, and he will have to make big plays such that will negate the Saints (justified) penchant for plugging in RBs to tailor certain mismatches.

And the only way he can really do that is either make long runs or learn to catch and run the screen as that is a big part of what they do. I'll believe it when I see it.

His role was always to be a reliable to unstoppable third and short and goalline back. He's still not Larry Csonka as far as that's concerned either.

Not sure if we look back through the history of the draft how many short yardage specialists get drafted where Ingram did.

Being drafted to bring a power element to the running game isn't the same thing as what you stated his role was to be.

I think it's more a case of the staff lacking the discipline to adhere to a running game when it is struggling. It's too easy to abandon the run when you are behind or are struggling to pick up chunks of yards and have Drew Brees crouching down under center.

Yet how many coaches regret how they abandoned the run after their Monday morning film study?

Now, the question of discipline is an interesting one considering the rumor mill surrounding Payton and the rest of the coaching staff. I hear what Payton says, but I don't really peg him as the kind of guy that will ever be disciplined enough to stay with the running game through the lean times. I think he's always going to be too tempted to dial up some wrinkles for Brees to give a try rather than to slug it out and wait for his RB's to finally spring something.

That said, if he does a better job of running the passing game compared to 2012, it can still open up opportunities in the running game. So I am cautiously optimistic that Ingram could be a value play with so much of the community having written him off as Moreno 2.0.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The problem with Ingram is that he is not likely to catch a lot of balls, and catches are so important now when it comes to being a top fantasy back (most of the time). And Ingram is not gonna dominate game time like Alfred Morris did last year, so with Sproles and Thomas still getting most of the RB catches and a lot of playing time on running downs, Ingram's upside is fairly limited.

 

[RBM]

The problem with Ingram is that he is not likely to catch a lot of balls, and catches are so important now when it comes to being a top fantasy back (most of the time). And Ingram is not gonna dominate game time like Alfred Morris did last year, so with Sproles and Thomas still getting most of the RB catches and a lot of playing time on running downs, Ingram's upside is fairly limited.

Yup, guy like Ingram needs 300+ carries to be a top back. Will never happen in NO and that's why it's probably the most bizarre first round pick in recent memory.

 

[az_prof]

The problem with Ingram is that he is not likely to catch a lot of balls, and catches are so important now when it comes to being a top fantasy back (most of the time). And Ingram is not gonna dominate game time like Alfred Morris did last year, so with Sproles and Thomas still getting most of the RB catches and a lot of playing time on running downs, Ingram's upside is fairly limited.

Question: does he suck as a receiver or is it just that Sproles (one of the best in the game as a receiver) and Thomas (above average receiving back) are so good? The reason I ask is this: should one or both of those guys go down, will Ingram get a chance to be used in that role too? Or, when they get too old (Sproles is 30 and Thomas 28), will they give him a chance to expand his role? If he flat out sucks at that role, then his value is far less than if he is in a situation where a couple of really exceptional guys are blocking him from expanding his usage.

 

[rickyg]

Im pretty bullish on him this year. I traded for him in my dynasty league at the end of last season literally for peanuts for this reason. I was actually hoping they would just trade him and keep ivory, but with a bit less crowded backfield, Ingram's newfound health, his success at running the ball in the second half of last season and the saints' outward desire to get a better return on their flashy 1st rd draft pick I expect better production this year, perhaps solid RB3 -borderline RB2 numbers, and with the potential for top 10 if the saints finally start featuring him.

 

[humpback]

The problem with Ingram is that he is not likely to catch a lot of balls, and catches are so important now when it comes to being a top fantasy back (most of the time). And Ingram is not gonna dominate game time like Alfred Morris did last year, so with Sproles and Thomas still getting most of the RB catches and a lot of playing time on running downs, Ingram's upside is fairly limited.

Question: does he suck as a receiver or is it just that Sproles (one of the best in the game as a receiver) and Thomas (above average receiving back) are so good? The reason I ask is this: should one or both of those guys go down, will Ingram get a chance to be used in that role too? Or, when they get too old (Sproles is 30 and Thomas 28), will they give him a chance to expand his role? If he flat out sucks at that role, then his value is far less than if he is in a situation where a couple of really exceptional guys are blocking him from expanding his usage.

He's decent as a receiver, so I'd say it's more that those other guys are the reason he doesn't catch many passes. They really should look to mix that up some though, they've been way too predictable.

Who knows what it's going to look like in a few years with age, contracts, etc.

 

[Kenny Powers]

from KFFL.com:

Saints | Mark Ingram improved in second half of seasonNew Orleans Saints RB Mark Ingram rushed for 178 yards and one touchdown in the first eight games of the 2012 season but rushed for 424 yards and four touchdowns in the second half of the season.

2013-05-16 16:09:49 | Source: New Orleans Times-Picayune - Mike Triplett

I like how KFFL fails to mention in the first 8 games Ingram had 47 carries while in the last 8 games he had 109 carries.

It only took a little bit over twice the number of carries for him to improve his ypc by .14 yards

They did double his carries over that time frame, which is a good thing if that workload continues.

While getting more carries is a good thing, I find that YPC to be negligible. Also, in those last 8 games Sproles missed 3 games, Pierre 1 game (all different weeks), and 2 of those games when Sproles was out Ivory had much better numbers than Ingram.

Him getting more carries is a good thing, Im just not buying that he gets >50 carries over Pierre, and Sproles snaps/touches limits his ceiling to 190-200 carries. That said, I think he is as safe as any of the RBs going around him and is decent value because of that, but barring an injury to Sproles or Pierre, I dont think he ends up a RB2.

Pierre has had better year end stats the last 2 years. Im not expecting that to happen again, but Pierre is also going 40+ picks later at RB49. That seems like an even better value for someone who has finished RB27 and RB33 the last 2 years.

Why would they be obligated to mention that his ypc was about the same? More carries at a similar ypc still means more yards than before which is a good thing. So by definition he was more productive in the second half of the season than the first. You acknowledge this. I often shake my head at some of the news and analysis that comes across the wires, but I'm not sure why you are nitpicking KFFL for posting that blurb.

I mentioned nothing about his YPC, and even Biabreakable said in his response to the post you responded to that he mentioned that sarcastically.

 

[Nucker101]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/49606/mark-ingram-ready-to-run-more

Every year in this hobby we get signals that something is changing. Sometimes we read those signals wrong, sometimes we ignore them. I have found that ignoring them is a losing strategy.

Ingrams situation seems to be changing. You can ignore it and keep saying the last 2 yrs tell you all you need to know. Good luck with that.

A Ridley type role/season is on the way. Jump on board or ignore it. Your choice. At the cost to acquire, the choice is easy for me.

Thanks for the article. Looks like Pierre Thomas is well worth a late round pick.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Ingram still sucks especially in PPR. Don't fall for the preseason hyperbole. The only thing that changed from last season is his jersey number.

 

[FF Ninja]

Im pretty bullish on him this year. I traded for him in my dynasty league at the end of last season literally for peanuts for this reason. I was actually hoping they would just trade him and keep ivory, but with a bit less crowded backfield, Ingram's newfound health, his success at running the ball in the second half of last season and the saints' outward desire to get a better return on their flashy 1st rd draft pick I expect better production this year, perhaps solid RB3 -borderline RB2 numbers, and with the potential for top 10 if the saints finally start featuring him.

Are we talking about a little airplane bag or like a jug from Sam's Club/Costco? Dry roasted or plain? I hope it wasn't honey roasted. I don't like sugar on my peanuts.

 

[Grahamburn]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/49606/mark-ingram-ready-to-run-more

Every year in this hobby we get signals that something is changing. Sometimes we read those signals wrong, sometimes we ignore them. I have found that ignoring them is a losing strategy.

Ingrams situation seems to be changing. You can ignore it and keep saying the last 2 yrs tell you all you need to know. Good luck with that.

A Ridley type role/season is on the way. Jump on board or ignore it. Your choice. At the cost to acquire, the choice is easy for me.

What makes you say this? Same coach. Same personnel. Same system. Same team. Seems to me absolutely nothing has changed.

 

[Todem]

I really whiffed on this kid. I am still in a holding pattern......can't move him for anything anyway. It really comes down to opportunity for him. His situation looks bleak on the Saints. Put him on another team that needs more of a feature back.....and really...who knows what his potential is now.

I still feel he could be a quality chain mover. But until he gets 14-20 carries game.....we will never know what his real potential could be. The Saints offense is built for Sporles and Thomas keeps hanging around. Maybe this year Ingram makes is mark in this offense.

But I really mis-judged his situation coming out of Alabama and being drafted by the Saints. When I saw they moved up to grab him....I figured they loved him and would use him. He has had some injuries...so who knows. But I still believe this kid can ball.

This year will be the tipping point for his career as a FF RB. Maybe even his NFL career too. He needs to produce now.

 

[JustinHawkins]

He's the ideal #4 RB on your roster in FF. He could end up producing at a #2 level IF the Saints ever fed him enough. But because of recent history, its hard to feel like you can count on him. He's definitely a hold right now IMO.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Im pretty bullish on him this year. I traded for him in my dynasty league at the end of last season literally for peanuts for this reason. I was actually hoping they would just trade him and keep ivory, but with a bit less crowded backfield, Ingram's newfound health, his success at running the ball in the second half of last season and the saints' outward desire to get a better return on their flashy 1st rd draft pick I expect better production this year, perhaps solid RB3 -borderline RB2 numbers, and with the potential for top 10 if the saints finally start featuring him.

A New Orleans homer could probably speak better to this, but I beleive Ivory was generally inactive on game days unless one og Ingram, Thomas or Sproles were out - it seems the backfield really didn't get any less crowded as far as actual game day is concerned.

 

[KellysHeroes]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/49606/mark-ingram-ready-to-run-more

Every year in this hobby we get signals that something is changing. Sometimes we read those signals wrong, sometimes we ignore them. I have found that ignoring them is a losing strategy.

Ingrams situation seems to be changing. You can ignore it and keep saying the last 2 yrs tell you all you need to know. Good luck with that.

A Ridley type role/season is on the way. Jump on board or ignore it. Your choice. At the cost to acquire, the choice is easy for me.

What makes you say this? Same coach. Same personnel. Same system. Same team. Seems to me absolutely nothing has changed.

that guy at ESPN just draft him?

 

[MAC_32]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/49606/mark-ingram-ready-to-run-more

Every year in this hobby we get signals that something is changing. Sometimes we read those signals wrong, sometimes we ignore them. I have found that ignoring them is a losing strategy.

Ingrams situation seems to be changing. You can ignore it and keep saying the last 2 yrs tell you all you need to know. Good luck with that.

A Ridley type role/season is on the way. Jump on board or ignore it. Your choice. At the cost to acquire, the choice is easy for me.

What makes you say this? Same coach. Same personnel. Same system. Same team. Seems to me absolutely nothing has changed.

Not the same coach, his coach was given last year off. The same coach that traded up for him two years ago then misused him in year one while he battled injuries. He had a year to think about how to properly use him. Putting him in there on obvious running plays (don't remember specifically but his runass ratio last year was obscene) is not a way to make him successful.

He is not a priority redraft target for me, but I speculated in a dyno for cheap, and I'll look for him if the price is right in my yearly leagues. Too early to write him off.

 

[Grahamburn]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/49606/mark-ingram-ready-to-run-more

Every year in this hobby we get signals that something is changing. Sometimes we read those signals wrong, sometimes we ignore them. I have found that ignoring them is a losing strategy.

Ingrams situation seems to be changing. You can ignore it and keep saying the last 2 yrs tell you all you need to know. Good luck with that.

A Ridley type role/season is on the way. Jump on board or ignore it. Your choice. At the cost to acquire, the choice is easy for me.

What makes you say this? Same coach. Same personnel. Same system. Same team. Seems to me absolutely nothing has changed.

Not the same coach, his coach was given last year off. The same coach that traded up for him two years ago then misused him in year one while he battled injuries. He had a year to think about how to properly use him. Putting him in there on obvious running plays (don't remember specifically but his runass ratio last year was obscene) is not a way to make him successful.

He is not a priority redraft target for me, but I speculated in a dyno for cheap, and I'll look for him if the price is right in my yearly leagues. Too early to write him off.

He misused him? How many points did the Saints score in 2011?

Unless Pierre Thomas is injured Mark Ingram will not be a big factor in fantasy football. PT is absolutely a better all around RB, and he's only 28. Throw in Sproles on passing downs along with his early down work, and Ingram is in the exact same spot he was in his first two years in the league.

Are you guys really thinking the Saints are about to turn into a power run team because the coach says "we need to run the ball better?" There are only so many touches for the RBs on the football, and Ingram is third in line for them.

 

[Concept Coop]

And the only way he can really do that is either make long runs or learn to catch and run the screen as that is a big part of what they do. I'll believe it when I see it.

He did this very well at Bama. I wonder what didn't translate, or why they don't do it more often.

 

[Concept Coop]

There are only so many touches for the RBs on the football, and Ingram is third in line for them.

A bit early to predict this. Ingram beat out Thomas for touches over the last half of 2012, and got more when healthy in 2011 too. We'll see.

 

[Grahamburn]

From 2012:

Mark Ingram had another strong practice for the New Orleans Saints on Thursday, and he's looking awfully healthy after offseason toe and knee surgeries. At the start of camp last week, Ingram's participation was being limited every other day. But he practiced fully Wednesday and Thursday - both of which were fairly physical sessions in full pads.

Ingram looked especially good on a screen pass in team drills, showing his speed and power as he gained extra yards after the catch. The team hasn't done any live tackling, so he can't be fully evaluated yet. But the second-year pro looks generally strong, fast and healthy, which is a good sign.

"I'm feeling good," Ingram said. "Just monitoring it, seeing how it reacts every day. I feel good. I feel strong and fast out there. And we'll just keep an eye on it."

With Ingram back on the field, the Saints are looking for him to be a 200-touch player this season, according to Peter King at Sports Illustrated.

The Saints have a deep backfield with Ingram, Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles and Chris Ivory, but multiple backs have fallen to injuries as of late. However, Ingram seems to be recovering nicely, as he went from participating in practice every other day at the beginning of training camp to being on the field back-to-back days last week.

From the Times-Picayne in 2011:

The New Orleans Saints haven't started tackling yet, but it's become abundantly clear that rookie running back Mark Ingram is going to be a load to tackle for NFL defenders.


Ingram's piston-churning, ankle-breaking, pad-crunching style has opened eyes -- and more than a few holes in the defense -- during his first week of training camp. In a short period of time, he has dazzled with his ability to find and create lanes where there seemingly aren't any.
A columnist once described the 5-foot-9, 215-pound first-round pick as "part bowling ball, part ballet dancer," and Saints' defenders have experienced both incarnations in camp.

"I can't wait to see him play this Friday (against the San Francisco 49ers at the Superdome) and see what he does against another team because in practice he's definitely flashed signs of greatness," free safety Malcolm Jenkins said.

One of the most impressive flashes occurred Tuesday on the final play of the first live-tackling session of camp. On a do-or-die, third-and-goal play, Ingram took a handoff from quarterback Drew Brees and found himself man to man at about the 1-yard line with one of the best tacklers in the NFL, two-time Pro Bowl safety Roman Harper. Ingram planted his feet, lowered his shoulder and blasted through Harper like a foam tackling dummy as he powered into the end zone.

The play said more about Ingram than it did about Harper. Harper isn't the first and definitely will not be the last prospective-tackler-turned-roadkill in Ingram's career.

Take your positive Mark Ingram training camp news with a grain of salt...

 

[saintsfan]

I live here in New Orleans and Ingram is getting a lot of positive press this offseason.

I know that's happened before, but at his current asking price in a redraft league, IMO, it's definately worth a pick. He did IMO look better over the second half of last season. The way the Saints offense is structured he will never be a top 5 or top 10 back, however, he could be a #3, borderline #2 back. Not bad if you take him in the 8th round or so.

Now, here in my league, he will never last that long, but that's because some of the guys in the league draft a bunch of Saints guys way earlier than they should go.

 

[MAC_32]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/49606/mark-ingram-ready-to-run-more

Every year in this hobby we get signals that something is changing. Sometimes we read those signals wrong, sometimes we ignore them. I have found that ignoring them is a losing strategy.

Ingrams situation seems to be changing. You can ignore it and keep saying the last 2 yrs tell you all you need to know. Good luck with that.

A Ridley type role/season is on the way. Jump on board or ignore it. Your choice. At the cost to acquire, the choice is easy for me.

What makes you say this? Same coach. Same personnel. Same system. Same team. Seems to me absolutely nothing has changed.

Not the same coach, his coach was given last year off. The same coach that traded up for him two years ago then misused him in year one while he battled injuries. He had a year to think about how to properly use him. Putting him in there on obvious running plays (don't remember specifically but his runass ratio last year was obscene) is not a way to make him successful.

He is not a priority redraft target for me, but I speculated in a dyno for cheap, and I'll look for him if the price is right in my yearly leagues. Too early to write him off.

He misused him? How many points did the Saints score in 2011?

One of these things is not like the other.

The Saints have never effectively used Ingram. If they were to utilize him in a more balanced approach they would get more out of him in the run game as the defense won't just expect run anytime he is on the field. How will it pay off in the passing game? i think we'll find out this season. If it's a negative then any gains on the ground are moot.

 

[Grahamburn]

The Saints have never effectively used Ingram. If they were to utilize him in a more balanced approach they would get more out of him in the run game as the defense won't just expect run anytime he is on the field. How will it pay off in the passing game? i think we'll find out this season. If it's a negative then any gains on the ground are moot.

Maybe the Saints made a mistake in drafting Ingram, realized it, and instead of compounding the problem by forcing the issue they simply go with what works? Pierre Thomas' and Darren Sproles' numbers are better than Ingram's across the board.

Sometimes organizations learn from their previous mistakes...

Maybe we haven't seen the best from Ingram yet? At 3.9 ypc I sure hope not. However, the fact remains, he's still competing for touches with two superior offensive players on a pass first offense.

Expecting a breakout for Ingram in this situation does not compute.

 

[TwinTurbo]

From 2012:

A columnist once described the 5-foot-9, 215-pound first-round pick as "part bowling ball, part ballet dancer," and Saints' defenders have experienced both incarnations in camp.

Yes Ingram is like the worst of Shonn Greene and Ron Dayne combined.

 

[MAC_32]

The Saints have never effectively used Ingram. If they were to utilize him in a more balanced approach they would get more out of him in the run game as the defense won't just expect run anytime he is on the field. How will it pay off in the passing game? i think we'll find out this season. If it's a negative then any gains on the ground are moot.

Maybe the Saints made a mistake in drafting Ingram, realized it, and instead of compounding the problem by forcing the issue they simply go with what works? Pierre Thomas' and Darren Sproles' numbers are better than Ingram's across the board.

Sometimes organizations learn from their previous mistakes...

Maybe we haven't seen the best from Ingram yet? At 3.9 ypc I sure hope not. However, the fact remains, he's still competing for touches with two superior offensive players on a pass first offense.

Expecting a breakout for Ingram in this situation does not compute.

Oh, that's entirely possible too.

My argument is just that dismissing Ingram right now is a mistake, especially given his current value. I threw mid round rookie picks at him and Ryan Williams just to wait and see. If they fulfill their potential, gold. If they continue to do what they've been doing, oh well, minimal loss.

In Ingram's case I think he could still be successful, but if it doesn't happen in New Orleans this year it will be elsewhere in a different system.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

The Saints have never effectively used Ingram. If they were to utilize him in a more balanced approach they would get more out of him in the run game as the defense won't just expect run anytime he is on the field. How will it pay off in the passing game? i think we'll find out this season. If it's a negative then any gains on the

ground are moot.

Maybe the Saints made a mistake in drafting Ingram, realized it, and instead of compounding the problem by forcing the issue they simply go with what works? Pierre Thomas' and Darren Sproles' numbers are better than Ingram's across the board.

Sometimes organizations learn from their previous mistakes...

Maybe we haven't seen the best from Ingram yet? At 3.9 ypc I sure hope not. However, the fact remains, he's still competing for touches with two superior offensive players on a pass first offense.

Expecting a breakout for Ingram in this situation does not compute.

I still kind of like Ingram as a player, but he needs to be the bellcow in a power rushing attack in order to reach his full potential, and there's just no way that's happening in New Orleans, no matter what Payton says during the offseason. Both Sproles and Thomas are better fits for the Saints' high octane passing attack, and it would be beyond stupid to structure the offense to play to Mark Ingram's strengths rather than turning Drew Brees loose to break records. I still think that Ingram has a shot at being an impact player -- but I don't see it happening with the Saints.

 

[Yitbos69]

The Saints have never effectively used Ingram. If they were to utilize him in a more balanced approach they would get more out of him in the run game as the defense won't just expect run anytime he is on the field. How will it pay off in the passing game? i think we'll find out this season. If it's a negative then any gains on the ground are moot.

Maybe the Saints made a mistake in drafting Ingram, realized it, and instead of compounding the problem by forcing the issue they simply go with what works? Pierre Thomas' and Darren Sproles' numbers are better than Ingram's across the board.

Sometimes organizations learn from their previous mistakes...

Maybe we haven't seen the best from Ingram yet? At 3.9 ypc I sure hope not. However, the fact remains, he's still competing for touches with two superior offensive players on a pass first offense.

Expecting a breakout for Ingram in this situation does not compute.

the great thing about all this is......we will be able to see this play out.......I like him to improve again...like he did late in the season last year...I am buying him at a price I like....you dont like him...don't buy him...if you own him sell him....I play in dynasty leagues so its not just about 2013....Ingram is the best inside runner they have.....I look forward to to watching him this year....if you want to make a wager on which RB has the most Rushing yards in 2013 I will take Ingram over PT and Sproles...let me know

 

[Grahamburn]

The Saints have never effectively used Ingram. If they were to utilize him in a more balanced approach they would get more out of him in the run game as the defense won't just expect run anytime he is on the field. How will it pay off in the passing game? i think we'll find out this season. If it's a negative then any gains on the ground are moot.

Maybe the Saints made a mistake in drafting Ingram, realized it, and instead of compounding the problem by forcing the issue they simply go with what works? Pierre Thomas' and Darren Sproles' numbers are better than Ingram's across the board.

Sometimes organizations learn from their previous mistakes...

Maybe we haven't seen the best from Ingram yet? At 3.9 ypc I sure hope not. However, the fact remains, he's still competing for touches with two superior offensive players on a pass first offense.

Expecting a breakout for Ingram in this situation does not compute.

the great thing about all this is......we will be able to see this play out.......I like him to improve again...like he did late in the season last year...I am buying him at a price I like....you dont like him...don't buy him...if you own him sell him....I play in dynasty leagues so its not just about 2013....Ingram is the best inside runner they have.....I look forward to to watching him this year....if you want to make a wager on which RB has the most Rushing yards in 2013 I will take Ingram over PT and Sproles...let me know

Improve again to what? 4.1 ypc and 615 yards? I don't care who leads the Saints in rushing yards. I care who leads them in fantasy points. It won't be Ingram unless Sproles and Thomas are out of the way.

If you like Ingram in a dynasty then by all means buy him now. His value won't get much lower. I don't blame you for liking him. I agree with everyone else that if he ended up in a power rushing attack he'd be exponentially more effective.

The only reason I chimed in was to respond to the fluff piece Bazinga! posted up above.

 

[Grahamburn]

It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. I'm sure it won't be the last.

What's your projection for Ingram this season?

 

[karmarooster]

The Saints have never effectively used Ingram. If they were to utilize him in a more balanced approach they would get more out of him in the run game as the defense won't just expect run anytime he is on the field. How will it pay off in the passing game? i think we'll find out this season. If it's a negative then any gains on the

ground are moot.

Maybe the Saints made a mistake in drafting Ingram, realized it, and instead of compounding the problem by forcing the issue they simply go with what works? Pierre Thomas' and Darren Sproles' numbers are better than Ingram's across the board.

Sometimes organizations learn from their previous mistakes...

Maybe we haven't seen the best from Ingram yet? At 3.9 ypc I sure hope not. However, the fact remains, he's still competing for touches with two superior offensive players on a pass first offense.

Expecting a breakout for Ingram in this situation does not compute.

I still kind of like Ingram as a player, but he needs to be the bellcow in a power rushing attack in order to reach his full potential, and there's just no way that's happening in New Orleans, no matter what Payton says during the offseason. Both Sproles and Thomas are better fits for the Saints' high octane passing attack, and it would be beyond stupid to structure the offense to play to Mark Ingram's strengths rather than turning Drew Brees loose to break records. I still think that Ingram has a shot at being an impact player -- but I don't see it happening with the Saints.

I think there's some good sense to this. Put Ingram on the Steelers instead of Laveon, or on the Bengals instead of BJGE, or on the Ravens instead of Rice... and he might actually be a nice, grinding runner that gets stronger with more carries. Ingram won't realize his potential until his second contract.

But, to respond to the idea that "Ingram is the best inside runner they have".... no. I'm pretty sure PThomas has some of the best DVOA numbers in the NFL over the past few seasons. He is excellent in everything he does.

Think of the rushing attack the saints could've had with Sproles, Ivory, and Thomas... and instead of wasting that 1st on Ingram, spent it on the O or D-line.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

No matter how many fluff pieces ESPN writes, there's simply no way to argue with the fact that Ingram has been, by far, the least effective RB on the roster since his arrival.

That may be due to him being a bad fit for the Saints' system, as opposed to being a bad player period, but at this point it is what it is.

 

[Yitbos69]

It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. I'm sure it won't be the last.

What's your projection for Ingram this season?

245/1070/9 32/220/2

 

[Grahamburn]

It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. I'm sure it won't be the last.

What's your projection for Ingram this season?

240 - 1000 - 11 20-180-1

It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. I'm sure it won't be the last.

What's your projection for Ingram this season?

245/1070/9 32/220/2

Gaudy numbers. 184 and 195 fantasy points respectively in a standard league. Borderline Top 10 RB. Good luck to you guys.

 

[Yitbos69]

It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. I'm sure it won't be the last.

What's your projection for Ingram this season?

240 - 1000 - 11 20-180-1

It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. I'm sure it won't be the last.

What's your projection for Ingram this season?

245/1070/9 32/220/2

Gaudy numbers. 184 and 195 fantasy points respectively in a standard league. Borderline Top 10 RB. Good luck to you guys.

what are your projections?

 

[Grahamburn]

Ingram - 170/697/6 10/50/0

Sproles - 60/310/1 80/680/6

Thomas - 110/517/3 40/320/1

 

[Yitbos69]

Ingram - 170/697/6 10/50/0

Sproles - 60/310/1 80/680/6

Thomas - 110/517/3 40/320/1

i could see this if 2013 is a Mirror of 2012....I don't think that will be the case...we will see this play out in the next few weeks and months...I think it is one of the more interesting situations

 

[Grahamburn]

Ingram - 170/697/6 10/50/0

Sproles - 60/310/1 80/680/6

Thomas - 110/517/3 40/320/1

i could see this if 2013 is a Mirror of 2012....I don't think that will be the case...we will see this play out in the next few weeks and months...I think it is one of the more interesting situations

I just wonder why the situation would change so drastically in Ingram's favor?

The Saints' defense has not improved, which is probably the most important thing that would need to change for Ingram to inherit the role he would need to reach your projection.

 

[Yitbos69]

Ingram - 170/697/6 10/50/0

Sproles - 60/310/1 80/680/6

Thomas - 110/517/3 40/320/1

i could see this if 2013 is a Mirror of 2012....I don't think that will be the case...we will see this play out in the next few weeks and months...I think it is one of the more interesting situations

I just wonder why the situation would change so drastically in Ingram's favor?

The Saints' defense has not improved, which is probably the most important thing that would need to change for Ingram to inherit the role he would need to reach your projection.

yes...thing have to change for him to meet my projections.....they already have with the with Payton back....everything I am hearing is that he wants to step up the run game....another difference is Ingram is healthy at the start of this year....Ingram is the best inside runner....PT and sproles like to bounce plays meant for the inside to the outside...ingram stays with the blocking and runs the play....time will tell....looking forward to seeing it unfold

 

[ODannyBoy]

Not sure why there is such resistance to the idea of Ingram putting up better numbers.

1) His coach speaks about using the run more this year.

2) Ingram says he healthier than he's ever been.

3) Reports out of camp are that he looks faster.

4) He's getting the first team reps now.

Hard to say if it's fluff or substance. But those add up to positive buzz in my book.

 

[Yitbos69]

(KFFL)New Orleans Saints RB Mark Ingram received a majority of the carries with the first-team offense during practice Monday, Aug. 5, and looked strong, fast and fluid during his rushes.

 

[jurb26]

No matter how many fluff pieces ESPN writes, there's simply no way to argue with the fact that Ingram has been, by far, the least effective RB on the roster since his arrival.

That may be due to him being a bad fit for the Saints' system, as opposed to being a bad player period, but at this point it is what it is.

Not being healthy could be a contributing factor as well...

 

[Yitbos69]

No matter how many fluff pieces ESPN writes, there's simply no way to argue with the fact that Ingram has been, by far, the least effective RB on the roster since his arrival.

That may be due to him being a bad fit for the Saints' system, as opposed to being a bad player period, but at this point it is what it is.

Not being healthy could be a contributing factor as well...

This

people are ignoring him not being 100% his 1st two seasons...he is coming in healthy and if he can stay healthy he will be the lead back in NO...IMO

 

[Grahamburn]

Not sure why there is such resistance to the idea of Ingram putting up better numbers.

1) His coach speaks about using the run more this year.

2) Ingram says he healthier than he's ever been.

3) Reports out of camp are that he looks faster.

4) He's getting the first team reps now.

Hard to say if it's fluff or substance. But those add up to positive buzz in my book.

Post #1,929. Ingram getting positive camp buzz is not a new thing.