Mark Ingram (2 Viewers)

[nxmehta]

I just stepped in here and holy hell I'm getting out of here, because there is some serious idiocy going on in this thread.

People are trying to compare the picks that the Saints gave up to move up in the draft vs what Cleveland gave up to evaluate the prospects of Richardson vs Ingram? WTF does that matter at all?

People have way too much invested in Ingram...

 

[matttyl]

Just saw a snippet today that Ingram has now had ANOTHER knee surgery, will be "out" the next 6 weeks?!

Per rotoworld -

"Mark Ingram underwent arthroscopic knee surgery on Thursday and will be sidelined for the next six weeks."

Really wishing I hadn't taken him with the first overall pick last year and gone with my gut and taken AJ Green.

 

[shader]

Well if it's any consolation, preseason games don't start for 14 weeks or so.

 

[Buck Stop]

just makes him that much cheaper to buy right now

 

[JaYz0618]

This thread has become useless...

But anyways, are we really ready to write him off after a rookie season ?

Id think he is a prime buy low candidate, he made some nice runs last year, or atleast it seemed like it. He runs with power, maybe he doesnt have the best top end speed, but he makes smooth cuts and has great visiion.

Plenty of people were calling McFadden a bust early in his career, those who stuck with him were rewarded (when healthy)

 

[griff321]

I feel like Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd in trading places. Standing around as the panic ensues and the stock keeps dipping lower and lower just waiting for the appropriate moment to scream, "BUY!"Are we there yet?

Buy after Beeks gets raped by the gorilla.

Almost there

 

[FF Ninja]

This thread has become useless...

But anyways, are we really ready to write him off after a rookie season ?

Id think he is a prime buy low candidate, he made some nice runs last year, or atleast it seemed like it. He runs with power, maybe he doesnt have the best top end speed, but he makes smooth cuts and has great visiion.

Plenty of people were calling McFadden a bust early in his career, those who stuck with him were rewarded (when healthy)

Agreed. I don't have him on a single team, but depending where he is landing, I'm very interested in snagging him in my redrafts. This seems to happen a lot. I'm sure we could all go back and forth with anecdotal evidence, but my perception is that everyone wants to land the next Edgerrin James, but the truth of the matter is that rookie RBs don't adjust quite as quickly as we wish most of the time. Jonathan Stewart had a much better soph. year, so did Mathews, it took DMC 3 years. I can't recall how long it took both Thomas Jones and Cedric Benson. But it seems that teams do pretty well with their first round RB selections - just not so much their rookie year. Hell, even Donald Brown showed some life last year. I'm very interested in Ingram, Ridley, Vereen, Powell. Not so interested in LeShoure and Ryan Williams - they are both pretty much rookies with the addition of horrible injuries.

 

[stbugs]

Looking a bit like T. Rich is valued more than Ingram. What say you Ingram lovers?

I say you're one sad little man. Must suck to validate your existence on a FF board.

I'd say he's right.

And? Not saying Ingram will have a better career, but what does draft position have to do with career performance?And yes, I do understand his post was about being valued. But honestly, NO gave up more. So, really he isn't right.

Not trying to get in the middle of the slap fest, but draft position is directly correlated to career performance. It isn't perfect and each player is an individual, but pretty sure there are more 1st round pick pro-bowlers than 2nd rounders. On average, draft position has everything to do with career performance.

Your just claiming it has something to do with it doesn't validate it. Show me proof and I will concede. I'm not going to do the homework.

I missed this post, but are you seriously saying that there is no correlation between draft position and career performance? There is no need to show proof, that is as posted above, idiocy, to think otherwise. Yes, there are those late round great players (like QBs with Brady, Montana and Warner), but look at the HOF/SB winners and you will also see a slew of #1 overall picks (P. Manning, E. Manning, Elway, Aikman, Bradshaw, etc.) and a lot of 1st rounders and early 2nds (Brees, Roethlisberger, Favre, Rodgers, etc.)I know FF stats aren't the same, but I took a real quick look at FBG's top 16 (top half of the NFL - not cherry picking as Amex Smith #1 overall was #17) from 2011 and you have 4 #1 overall picks, 3 #2-#5 picks, 4 other 1st round picks, 2 who were picked in the first 3 picks of the 2nd round and Romo, Brady and Fitzpatrick. So, out of the top 16 QBs, 25% were #1 overall, 44% were top 5, 69% were 1st round, 81% were top 35 picks and only 19% were outside of the top 35. Seems like decent proof to me. Pretty sure Yudkin or Chase did a study and showed how the percentages of pro-bowlers/effective players go down every round. It isn't rocket science. Maybe Ingram will have a better career, but just based on draft position, Richardson has a far greater probability of being better.

 

[shader]

Bump for 2012 DOMINANCE!

 

[FF Ninja]

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/08/19/32-teams-in-32-days-new-orleans-saints/

5) Running Game

Often overlooked because of Brees and the Saints’ aerial attack, is the fact that the Saints had PFF’s second highest graded rushing attack and ranked sixth in yards per game on the ground (132.9) in 2011. The rushing attack is largely a product of what could be the deepest stable of running backs in the NFL with Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles, Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram.

Few backs in the league bring more to the table than Thomas and the dynamic Sproles. Yet Ingram could be the most talented of the group and should take a step forward in his second season, provided he can stay on the field. The Saints have so many running backs that Ivory, who posted a +5.2 grade in just 156 snaps last season, might not even make the roster. Ivory is competing for his spot with this year’s fan training camp favorite Travaris Cadet, the undrafted rookie out of Appalachian State, who has turned heads this preseason. Even though one of the better offensive lines in the league lost its best player with Carl Nicks now in Tampa Bay, Ben Grubbs is a solid replacement who should be able to help keep this Saints run game among the best in the league.

 

[Macdaddy_2004]

This guy's a bum - went undrafted this weekend in a 10 team 17 roster spot league.

 

[unckeyherb]

This guy's a bum - went undrafted this weekend in a 10 team 17 roster spot league.

seriously?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

This guy's a bum - went undrafted this weekend in a 10 team 17 roster spot league.

seriously?

17 spots...probably only 4 per roster, 40-45 RBs taken...I can see it. Especially in a non FBG type league.

 

[Pipes]

This guy's a bum - went undrafted this weekend in a 10 team 17 roster spot league.

seriously?

17 spots...probably only 4 per roster, 40-45 RBs taken...I can see it. Especially in a non FBG type league.

In a 17 roster spot league I'd assume teams would have 5 or maybe even 6 RBs so that's pretty shocking that Ingram wouldn't be drafted at all.

 

[shader]

The only thing he needs is opportunity.

 

[unckeyherb]

This guy's a bum - went undrafted this weekend in a 10 team 17 roster spot league.

seriously?

17 spots...probably only 4 per roster, 40-45 RBs taken...I can see it. Especially in a non FBG type league.

In a 17 roster spot league I'd assume teams would have 5 or maybe even 6 RBs so that's pretty shocking that Ingram wouldn't be drafted at all.

That's what I was thinking. We have 17 roster spots and typically have 6 or more RBs on my squad. If he really is being this undervalued I will certainly try to reap the benefits.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

It may not mean much but Darren McFadden went #1 overall in my league (4 person keeper--10 team PPR) when he was a rookie for 2 straight years and then went undrafted after that....3rd year he exploded.

 

[Raider Nation]

I have no earthly idea why the Saints wasted a draft pick on this guy (and moved UP to do so) if they insist on not using him. He needed a lot of carries to get lubed up at BAMA, and he killed tired defenses in the 2nd half. Getting five carries a week is positively useless. The team might as well just release him.

 

[Raider Nation]

The only thing he needs is opportunity.

 

[rockaction]

This guy needs much more opportunity within a passing offense for his 2.2 YPC, or whatever it is now.

 

[Raider Nation]

This guy needs much more opportunity within a passing offense for his 2.2 YPC, or whatever it is now.

Just to be clear, I don't own him and never have, so there's no agenda behind my comments.But again, why bother drafting him? They knew what kind of offense they were running when they traded up to get him. Square peg/round hole. Look at his game logs; it's comical. Fewer than 6 carries/game in 4 of the 5 games so far. How is he supposed to get into any rhythm like that? I understand that part of it is the fact that the Saints got behind early, but on the other hand, you could argue that they got behind early because they never try to run the ball.

 

[rockaction]

This guy needs much more opportunity within a passing offense for his 2.2 YPC, or whatever it is now.

Just to be clear, I don't own him and never have, so there's no agenda behind my comments.But again, why bother drafting him? They knew what kind of offense they were running when they traded up to get him. Square peg/round hole. Look at his game logs; it's comical. Fewer than 6 carries/game in 4 of the 5 games so far. How is he supposed to get into any rhythm like that? I understand that part of it is the fact that the Saints got behind early, but on the other hand, you could argue that they got behind early because they never try to run the ball.

I don't know why they drafted him, really. Belichick traded out of the first round and away from him to draft Vereen and Ridley. That was a bad sign, especially given that the Pats were desperate for RBs and wanted to run the ball like they've been doing the past few weeks. I'm not sure Ingram is a legit back anywhere. Maybe Washington will trade for him?

 

[Raider Nation]

This guy needs much more opportunity within a passing offense for his 2.2 YPC, or whatever it is now.

Just to be clear, I don't own him and never have, so there's no agenda behind my comments.But again, why bother drafting him? They knew what kind of offense they were running when they traded up to get him. Square peg/round hole. Look at his game logs; it's comical. Fewer than 6 carries/game in 4 of the 5 games so far. How is he supposed to get into any rhythm like that? I understand that part of it is the fact that the Saints got behind early, but on the other hand, you could argue that they got behind early because they never try to run the ball.

I don't know why they drafted him, really. Belichick traded out of the first round and away from him to draft Vereen and Ridley. That was a bad sign, especially given that the Pats were desperate for RBs and wanted to run the ball like they've been doing the past few weeks. I'm not sure Ingram is a legit back anywhere. Maybe Washington will trade for him?

He didn't forget how to run since leaving Alabama. He needs a fresh start somewhere else.

 

[RBM]

I have no earthly idea why the Saints wasted a draft pick on this guy (and moved UP to do so) if they insist on not using him. He needed a lot of carries to get lubed up at BAMA, and he killed tired defenses in the 2nd half. Getting five carries a week is positively useless. The team might as well just release him.

Not even close to fitting with the offense.They have Chris Ivory who can do the same job....they should really see if someone will give a 4th rounder for him.Wacky team like the Jets would probably do that.

 

[Touchdown Syndrome]

This guy needs much more opportunity within a passing offense for his 2.2 YPC, or whatever it is now.

Just to be clear, I don't own him and never have, so there's no agenda behind my comments.But again, why bother drafting him? They knew what kind of offense they were running when they traded up to get him. Square peg/round hole. Look at his game logs; it's comical. Fewer than 6 carries/game in 4 of the 5 games so far. How is he supposed to get into any rhythm like that? I understand that part of it is the fact that the Saints got behind early, but on the other hand, you could argue that they got behind early because they never try to run the ball.

I don't know why they drafted him, really. Belichick traded out of the first round and away from him to draft Vereen and Ridley. That was a bad sign, especially given that the Pats were desperate for RBs and wanted to run the ball like they've been doing the past few weeks. I'm not sure Ingram is a legit back anywhere. Maybe Washington will trade for him?

He didn't forget how to run since leaving Alabama. He needs a fresh start somewhere else.

I would take him on the Jets for sure.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Pierre Thomas would be a top-15 RB easily if the Saints didn't force carries to Ingram in obvious running situations. Ingram might also be a top-15 RB if Thomas was not there. But as it stands, Thomas not only looks better than Ingram, but his presence on the field also does not scream RUN! RUN! RUN!

This positively reeks of a GM becoming enamored with a player, and a coach having no real use, desire, or plan for said player.

 

[Multiple Scores]

lol

 

[Raider Nation]

Not that he was Earl Campbell last year or anything, but did losing Carl Nicks cripple this running game in New Orleans?

 

[Raider Nation]

Pierre Thomas would be a top-15 RB easily if the Saints didn't force carries to Ingram in obvious running situations. Ingram might also be a top-15 RB if Thomas was not there. But as it stands, Thomas not only looks better than Ingram, but his presence on the field also does not scream RUN! RUN! RUN!

This positively reeks of a GM becoming enamored with a player, and a coach having no real use, desire, or plan for said player.

Now Pierre I do have. Love the guy. Fights for every yard.

 

[rockaction]

This guy needs much more opportunity within a passing offense for his 2.2 YPC, or whatever it is now.

Just to be clear, I don't own him and never have, so there's no agenda behind my comments.But again, why bother drafting him? They knew what kind of offense they were running when they traded up to get him. Square peg/round hole. Look at his game logs; it's comical. Fewer than 6 carries/game in 4 of the 5 games so far. How is he supposed to get into any rhythm like that? I understand that part of it is the fact that the Saints got behind early, but on the other hand, you could argue that they got behind early because they never try to run the ball.

I don't know why they drafted him, really. Belichick traded out of the first round and away from him to draft Vereen and Ridley. That was a bad sign, especially given that the Pats were desperate for RBs and wanted to run the ball like they've been doing the past few weeks. I'm not sure Ingram is a legit back anywhere. Maybe Washington will trade for him?

He didn't forget how to run since leaving Alabama. He needs a fresh start somewhere else.

He looked kind of slow at Alabama, too, but people didn't -- and still don't -- want to hear the word "overrated." It was a serious knock on him when the Pats traded out of that spot, and I have almost no doubt they looked at him and thought, "too slow, bad knee already."

 

[Inspiration]

This guy needs much more opportunity within a passing offense for his 2.2 YPC, or whatever it is now.

Just to be clear, I don't own him and never have, so there's no agenda behind my comments.But again, why bother drafting him? They knew what kind of offense they were running when they traded up to get him. Square peg/round hole. Look at his game logs; it's comical. Fewer than 6 carries/game in 4 of the 5 games so far. How is he supposed to get into any rhythm like that? I understand that part of it is the fact that the Saints got behind early, but on the other hand, you could argue that they got behind early because they never try to run the ball.

This doesn't entirely answer your question, but it's important to remember that Darren Sproles wasn't on the team at the time they drafted Ingram (due to FA being pushed back by the lockout).

 

[Raider Nation]

This guy needs much more opportunity within a passing offense for his 2.2 YPC, or whatever it is now.

Just to be clear, I don't own him and never have, so there's no agenda behind my comments.But again, why bother drafting him? They knew what kind of offense they were running when they traded up to get him. Square peg/round hole. Look at his game logs; it's comical. Fewer than 6 carries/game in 4 of the 5 games so far. How is he supposed to get into any rhythm like that? I understand that part of it is the fact that the Saints got behind early, but on the other hand, you could argue that they got behind early because they never try to run the ball.

This doesn't entirely answer your question, but it's important to remember that Darren Sproles wasn't on the team at the time they drafted Ingram (due to FA being pushed back by the lockout).

Fair point.

 

[RGIII will lead the way]

Reggie Bush is a pretty good example of the Saints not realizing what they have at the rb postion. Just sayin. Me thinks Ingram would do fine on the right team

 

[gatorbait]

Being from New Orleans and a die hard Saints fan, I just don't see it happening for Ingram here. Maybe it will be another Reggie Bush situation but that's his best chance. Saints are the true form of RRBC. Sproles, PT and Ingram get their touches and I don't see any of them ever getting enough touches to keep fantasy owners happy. Same with Bush. He was never going to be the main runner and Sproles fit the pass catching role, so Bush became expendable. Our defense is so bad that I don't see too many opportunities of being up and just pounding the rock to kill the game. I've always said we need to trade PT or Ingram to get help elsewhere. I liked Ingram a lot when we drafted him. His running style reminded me of Emmitt. But I don't see it happening here. As much as I like the kid, I would be ok with moving him and going with Sproles and PT. I like PT a lot too and he runs hard and does well in the screen game. Then you have Ivory and Cadet on the bench. Ivory is a hard runner and Cadet has a similar style. They liked Cadet so much in the offseason, he made the active roster because they felt another team would snag him if tried to clear waivers to put him on the practice squad. We have a ton of rbs and unless someone goes, it's going to be more of this all year. Sproles will get a few carries and receptions, Ingram and PT will split some carries and you have to pray your guy is the one in the game when the Saints are inside the 3.

 

[SayWhat?]

Loved the stat that they showed during last night's Saints/Chargers game regarding the percentage of plays the Saints passed on by down. This may not be exact, but should be pretty close and it was something like:

1st down - Passed on 54% of plays

2nd down - Passed on 82% of plays

3rd down - Passed on 92% of plays

4th down - Passed on 100% of plays

I realize that Brees and the passing offense is their bread and butter, but that's simply not a recipe for success in the NFL. The two conclusions I've come to regarding Ingram are that he's a solid RB but simply not an elite talent, and that my original assessment that the Saints were a good fit for his talents couldn't have been futher from the truth. It now appears to be simply a matter of holding Ingram until his rookie contract is up, and hoping that he ends up in a better situation than he's currently in. That, or the Saints change offensive systems which seems unlikely considering how great Drew Brees is.

 

[saintfool]

Not that he was Earl Campbell last year or anything, but did losing Carl Nicks cripple this running game in New Orleans?

it obviously hurts, i think, but Grubbs isn't a bad player. the o-line play has been pretty atrocious (especially the OTs) and i have to think kromer's responsibilities as a HC have led to a lack of support for those players. once Vitt steps in then it could improve.

 

[shader]

Ok, so the HOF is still likely a bad call....

But I think he finally got a little daylight and made some nice plays last night.

I still maintain Ingram could be a very solid RB in this league if given carries and opportunity.

Chris Ivory, Pierre Thomas AND Ingram are all being hurt in this offense, without question.

I don't know the future of Ingram, and I still don't think there is much fantasy relevance this year. But from a talent perspective, I'm still intrigued.

 

[Concept Coop]

This thread is funny. Those suggesting he wasn't elite or a potential HOF'er were blasted. Now they would get blasted for suggesting he might not suck.

 

[tdhartis]

This thread is funny. Those suggesting he wasn't elite or a potential HOF'er were blasted. Now they would get blasted for suggesting he might not suck.

Hindsight is 20/20 The case is far from closed.

 

[Concept Coop]

This thread is funny. Those suggesting he wasn't elite or a potential HOF'er were blasted. Now they would get blasted for suggesting he might not suck.

Hindsight is 20/20 The case is far from closed.

I think he will be a good one, and agree it is not set in stone, one way or another. It is just funny how drastically people's opinions can change. He went from HOF to bust in just 150 carries.

 

[jwb]

This thread is funny. Those suggesting he wasn't elite or a potential HOF'er were blasted. Now they would get blasted for suggesting he might not suck.

Hindsight is 20/20 The case is far from closed.

I think he will be a good one, and agree it is not set in stone, one way or another. It is just funny how drastically people's opinions can change. He went from HOF to bust in just 150 carries.

I guess the problem is those 150 carries have been spread out over one and a half seasons. Fair or not, we still expect our RB's (especially first round RB's) to hit the ground running. Of course, this doesn't always happen (McFadden / Spiller / etc). I bought him in a few leagues before the season, and am definitely disappointed, but I'm not about to bail.

 

[Todem]

Ok, so the HOF is still likely a bad call....But I think he finally got a little daylight and made some nice plays last night. I still maintain Ingram could be a very solid RB in this league if given carries and opportunity. Chris Ivory, Pierre Thomas AND Ingram are all being hurt in this offense, without question.I don't know the future of Ingram, and I still don't think there is much fantasy relevance this year. But from a talent perspective, I'm still intrigued.

Same here. It is all about opportunity, rhythm and carries for a player like Ingram. I don't think he is the suck. But as long as he is in this "situation" we will never know what he is.Reggie Bush is a perfect example of a guy who went from a decent situation to being featured. Reggie Bush is proving he can be a pretty good feature back in the league and a good PPR back in FF.I am not closing the book on a talent like Ingram until I see him go to another situation or by chance it improves in NO via age (Sproles) and injury (Thomas).He is a good football player no question. His current situation sucks. If he were on a team like the Colts.....he would be their feature back. Don't tell me Vick Ballard is a better option than Mark Ingram.

 

[jurb26]

He is a good football player no question. His current situation sucks. If he were on a team like the Colts.....he would be their feature back. Don't tell me Vick Ballard is a better option than Mark Ingram.

There are a number of teams he could go to and be successful IMO. Any one of; NE, Cicni, Indy, Den, Wash, Det, GB or St. L cout be nice placed for him where he could be an upgrade and do will.

 

[TLEF316]

Just based off of a few runs last night, I'd take him on the Jets right now. I still think he has ability.

 

[humpback]

He is a good football player no question. His current situation sucks. If he were on a team like the Colts.....he would be their feature back. Don't tell me Vick Ballard is a better option than Mark Ingram.

There are a number of teams he could go to and be successful IMO. Any one of; NE, Cicni, Indy, Den, Wash, Det, GB or St. L cout be nice placed for him where he could be an upgrade and do will.

I agree, but it isn't likely he ends up in any of those spots for quite a while. His situation stinks and chances are it won't get better for 2 1/2 years. Frustrating.

 

[MCguidance]

Just based off of a few runs last night, I'd take him on the Jets right now. I still think he has ability.

Exactly what I thought last night when I was watching him.

 

[Concept Coop]

I agree, but it isn't likely he ends up in any of those spots for quite a while. His situation stinks and chances are it won't get better for 2 1/2 years. Frustrating.

It could get better, simply going back to what it was as a rookie. If he can take Thomas' touches, he can be an RB2. Especially if the Saints run the ball a bit more. I agree with you, for the most part - his situation sucks. I just think it gets better soon, as early as next year.

 

[RBM]

Knew this guy was good. Last week Aikman made the Emmitt comparison. Billick was gushing about him today. A bunch of impressive runs today.

 

[matttyl]

Knew this guy was good. Last week Aikman made the Emmitt comparison. Billick was gushing about him today. A bunch of impressive runs today.

Yardage totals by top rusher vs Bucs week by week this year1- K. Pilares with 5

2- Andre Brown with 71

3- D Murray with 38

4- Alfred Morris with 113

5- bye

6- J Charles with 40

7- P Thomas with 32

8- Peterson with 123

9- McFadden with 17

10- R Mathews with 54

11- J Stew with 43

12- Jz. Rodgers with 49

13- Knowshon Moreno with 69

14- Nick Foles with 27

15- Mark Ingram with 90

Not bad company for the only rushers to top 80 yards vs that defense. He hasn't looked that bad these past few weeks, and I think is a very good buy low.

 

[jurb26]

Knew this guy was good. Last week Aikman made the Emmitt comparison. Billick was gushing about him today. A bunch of impressive runs today.

Yardage totals by top rusher vs Bucs week by week this year1- K. Pilares with 5

2- Andre Brown with 71

3- D Murray with 38

4- Alfred Morris with 113

5- bye

6- J Charles with 40

7- P Thomas with 32

8- Peterson with 123

9- McFadden with 17

10- R Mathews with 54

11- J Stew with 43

12- Jz. Rodgers with 49

13- Knowshon Moreno with 69

14- Nick Foles with 27

15- Mark Ingram with 90

Not bad company for the only rushers to top 80 yards vs that defense. He hasn't looked that bad these past few weeks, and I think is a very good buy low.

Wow, I really hadn't realized the Bucs run D was that good. Those are some very low totals across the board.