What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Mass shooting at AME church in Charleston, SC. State Senator is dead (1 Viewer)

That list is a bit surprising to me. I have only lived in three (Charleston, Columbia, and Charlotte) which all seem to be pretty damn segregated. Interesting that they are actually some of the most integrated.
I was surprised by some of that list too. I think the "metro" component can be deceiving, if a city has a big suburban component the segregation might reflect that part of things instead of the nature of the demos living with the city proper itself.

 
And then, what about Baltimore, where there were charges filed? Baltimore is not Southern. It's Maryland, "The Free State," as it were.
Baltimore is not really "Northern" either, and Maryland was part of the confederacy...as it were.
Maryland was not part of the Confederacy. Maryland stayed "neutral" until Lee invaded (see Antietam) after which Maryland supplied troops for the North.
Maryland was a slave State and many Marylanders fought with the south during the war. They did not secede, but the Union Army took control over Baltimore and declared martial law because of the railhead and the city's sympathies to the South, which was 17 months prior to Antietam. During the march to Gettysburg, Lee basically walked across Maryland largely unopposed.

Lee and Stonewall Jackson both have memorials in Baltimore which you can visit today. So at worst, they were strongly sympathetic to the South. Annapolis was one of the biggest slave ports in the country, with slaves landing right next to the Naval Academy for decades.

So I misspoke saying they were part of the confederacy, however they were not a Union state either and had strong social and economic ties to the South.

Also I believe roadkill is from Maryland. :)
The part of Maryland where he crossed is only 10 miles wide. :)

I think most of the Maryland sympathy for the south centered around its eastern shore, which has long been rural, agrarian and more southern in temperament. But the state was truly split in its sympathies and both sides had a Maryland regiment of its own in action at Gettysburg.

 
Slapdash said:
That list is a bit surprising to me. I have only lived in three (Charleston, Columbia, and Charlotte) which all seem to be pretty damn segregated. Interesting that they are actually some of the most integrated.
South of Broad is a pretty small area, right?

 
Slapdash said:
That list is a bit surprising to me. I have only lived in three (Charleston, Columbia, and Charlotte) which all seem to be pretty damn segregated. Interesting that they are actually some of the most integrated.
South of Broad is a pretty small area, right?
Very much so, why?
Because when an outsider like me who's never been there reads about Charleston (either in articles or a Pat Conroy novel, for example), that's the image we have: these beautiful old houses which are pretty much restricted to very rich white people whose ancestors started the Civil War. But in fact I know that Charleston is actually a very cosmopolitan city, so it doesn't surprise me at all to learn that it's really much less segregated than other places.

 
Slapdash said:
That list is a bit surprising to me. I have only lived in three (Charleston, Columbia, and Charlotte) which all seem to be pretty damn segregated. Interesting that they are actually some of the most integrated.
South of Broad is a pretty small area, right?
Very much so, why?
Because when an outsider like me who's never been there reads about Charleston (either in articles or a Pat Conroy novel, for example), that's the image we have: these beautiful old houses which are pretty much restricted to very rich white people whose ancestors started the Civil War. But in fact I know that Charleston is actually a very cosmopolitan city, so it doesn't surprise me at all to learn that it's really much less segregated than other places.
I wouldn't go this far. Driving down the peninsula through Charleston but you certainly notice the transition as downtown gentrifies. But, overall, downtown Charleston is a pretty small part of the population of the metro area.

 
This tragedy is entirely the fault of the people I didn't like to begin with, and it perfectly confirms what I've thought all along!
It turns out that there may be a special module in our brain, in the left hemisphere, devoted to perpetuating exactly these conclusions.

I was going to write a little about this because some extrapolation is required from V.S. Ramachandran's basic idea to make it applicable to political stubbornness in ordinary people. But I don't really have time, so I'll just link to this article summarizing Ramachandran and let everyone do their own extrapolating. Read the article, though; it's pretty fascinating.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Some evidence has been presented that th patches an license plate didn't exist when the photos qwere taken, but were added in post production.

Don'y know what it would mean, but would be a big change in a piece of evidence that seems to carry a fair amount of weight.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
roadkill1292 said:
You idiots. You're lucky black people have handled centuries of mistreatment as well as they have. If I were a southern black whose daddy and grandpappy had suffered the kind of abuse that was routine down there for over a hundred years, I'd be daydreaming of murdering your privileged lily-white selves while you slept.
Wow, what an eccentric performance.
Crazy old *******. Hopefully he doesn't kill anyone.

 
Because when an outsider like me who's never been there reads about Charleston (either in articles or a Pat Conroy novel,
I've found the problem.
Some evidence has been presented that th patches an license plate didn't exist when the photos qwere taken, but were added in post production.

Don'y know what it would mean, but would be a big change in a piece of evidence that seems to carry a fair amount of weight.
I have not heard this. Link?
 
Because when an outsider like me who's never been there reads about Charleston (either in articles or a Pat Conroy novel,
I've found the problem.
Some evidence has been presented that th patches an license plate didn't exist when the photos qwere taken, but were added in post production.

Don'y know what it would mean, but would be a big change in a piece of evidence that seems to carry a fair amount of weight.
I have not heard this. Link?
I was a bit doped up when I was looking last night (hence the proliferation of typos).

There are a few sites that have advanced the idea that the patches don't match the rest of the image, but they're not any sites that I'd give credence to (ie, I don't think the Charleston shooting was a "false flag" operation, nor do I think the shooting advances globalization interests.)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/south-carolina-church-shooting-were-dylann-roof-photos-digitally-altered-disturbing-forensic-evidence/5457161

I need to remember to clear my search history after taking Ambien.

 
Are you ####### kidding me? The officers that arrested this scumbag bought him BURGER KING because he was hungry.
A lot of holding jails have meals contracted through local fast food.

Would you have preferred the cops not provide food? Because that's starting to dance with torture.

Or are you only ok with torture for this fella because of what he did?

I believe South Carolina still gives the condemned a last meal as well. Will that be an issue for you too?

 
Are you ####### kidding me? The officers that arrested this scumbag bought him BURGER KING because he was hungry.
A lot of holding jails have meals contracted through local fast food.

Would you have preferred the cops not provide food? Because that's starting to dance with torture.

Or are you only ok with torture for this fella because of what he did?

I believe South Carolina still gives the condemned a last meal as well. Will that be an issue for you too?
I have an issue with cops going out of this way to give this guy any preferential treatment that any other suspect wouldn't get. I'd like to know if this is a common occurrence.
I wish the cops had an MRE handy, but in their position, what are you going to do?

Case is so high profile that every i and t are respectively dotted and crossed. Roof was going to be transported some distance and although Tobias was joking about the quality of the food running afoul of the 8th, you can see why the cops can't starve him.

Also, it sounds like Roof was talking. A guy like DW could probably give more info on police procedures, but generally the cops want to keep a suspect who's currently talking happy. If a Whopper and fries is the price of a full confession, they'll likely provide for anyone.

Sure it seems odd, but I don't think the BK story indicates any motives by the cops other than trying to do their jobs correctly.

 
President Obama delivered the eulogy at the funeral of South Carolina state Sen. Clementa Pinckney, the pastor who was fatally shot in his Emanuel AME Church along with eight others. (WhiteHouse.gov)

President Obama delivered the following eulogy at the funeral of the Rev. Clementa Pinckney at the College of Charleston’s campus.

OBAMA: Giving all praise and honor to God.

The Bible calls us to hope, to persevere and have faith in things not seen. They were still living by faith when they died, the scripture tells us.

They did not receive the things promised. They only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.

We are here today to remember a man of God who lived by faith, a man who believed in things not seen, a man who believed there were better days ahead off in the distance, a man of service, who persevered knowing full-well he would not receive all those things he was promised, because he believed his efforts would deliver a better life for those who followed, to Jennifer, his beloved wife, Eliana and Malana, his beautiful, wonderful daughters, to the Mother Emanuel family and the people of Charleston, the people of South Carolina.

I cannot claim to have had the good fortune to know Reverend Pinckney well, but I did have the pleasure of knowing him and meeting him here in South Carolina back when we were both a little bit younger…

… back when I didn’t have visible gray hair.

The first thing I noticed was his graciousness, his smile, his reassuring baritone, his deceptive sense of humor, all qualities that helped him wear so effortlessly a heavy burden of expectation.

Friends of his remarked this week that when Clementa Pinckney entered a room, it was like the future arrived, that even from a young age, folks knew he was special, anointed. He was the progeny of a long line of the faithful, a family of preachers who spread God’s words, a family of protesters who so changed to expand voting rights and desegregate the South.

Clem heard their instruction, and he did not forsake their teaching. He was in the pulpit by 13, pastor by 18, public servant by 23. He did not exhibit any of the cockiness of youth nor youth’s insecurities. Instead, he set an example worthy of his position, wise beyond his years in his speech, in his conduct, in his love, faith and purity.

As a senator, he represented a sprawling swathe of low country, a place that has long been one of the most neglected in America, a place still racked by poverty and inadequate schools, a place where children can still go hungry and the sick can go without treatment — a place that needed somebody like Clem.

His position in the minority party meant the odds of winning more resources for his constituents were often long. His calls for greater equity were too-often unheeded. The votes he cast were sometimes lonely.

But he never gave up. He stayed true to his convictions. He would not grow discouraged. After a full day at the Capitol, he’d climb into his car and head to the church to draw sustenance from his family, from his ministry, from the community that loved and needed him. There, he would fortify his faith and imagine what might be.

Reverend Pinckney embodied a politics that was neither mean nor small. He conducted himself quietly and kindly and diligently. He encouraged progress not by pushing his ideas alone but by seeking out your ideas, partnering with you to make things happen. He was full of empathy and fellow feeling, able to walk in somebody else’s shoes and see through their eyes.

No wonder one of his Senate colleagues remembered Senator Pinckney as “the most gentle of the 46 of us, the best of the 46 of us.”

Clem was often asked why he chose to be a pastor and a public servant. But the person who asked probably didn’t know the history of AME Church.

As our brothers and sisters in the AME Church, we don’t make those distinctions. “Our calling,” Clem once said, “is not just within the walls of the congregation but the life and community in which our congregation resides.”

He embodied the idea that our Christian faith demands deeds and not just words, that the sweet hour of prayer actually lasts the whole week long, that to put our faith in action is more than just individual salvation, it’s about our collective salvation, that to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and house the homeless is not just a call for isolated charity but the imperative of a just society.

What a good man. Sometimes I think that’s the best thing to hope for when you’re eulogized, after all the words and recitations and resumes are read, to just say somebody was a good man.

You don’t have to be of high distinction to be a good man.

Preacher by 13, pastor by 18, public servant by 23. What a life Clementa Pinckney lived. What an example he set. What a model for his faith.

And then to lose him at 41, slain in his sanctuary with eight wonderful members of his flock, each at different stages in life but bound together by a common commitment to God — Cynthia Hurd, Susie Jackson, Ethel Lance, DePayne Middleton Doctor, Tywanza Sanders, Daniel L. Simmons, Sharonda Coleman-Singleton, Myra Thompson.

Good people. Decent people. God-fearing people.

People so full of life and so full of kindness, people who ran the race, who persevered, people of great faith.

To the families of the fallen, the nation shares in your grief. Our pain cuts that much deeper because it happened in a church.

The church is and always has been the center of African American life…

… a place to call our own in a too-often hostile world, a sanctuary from so many hardships.

Over the course of centuries, black churches served as hush harbors, where slaves could worship in safety, praise houses, where their free descendants could gather and shout “Hallelujah…”

… rest stops for the weary along the Underground Railroad, bunkers for the foot soldiers of the civil-rights movement.

They have been and continue to community centers, where we organize for jobs and justice, places of scholarship and network, places where children are loved and fed and kept out of harms way and told that they are beautiful and smart and taught that they matter.

That’s what happens in church. That’s what the black church means — our beating heart, the place where our dignity as a people in inviolate.

There’s no better example of this tradition than Mother Emanuel, a church…

… a church built by blacks seeking liberty, burned to the ground because its founders sought to end slavery only to rise up again, a phoenix from these ashes.

When there were laws banning all-black church gatherers, services happened here anyway in defiance of unjust laws. When there was a righteous movement to dismantle Jim Crow, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. preached from its pulpit, and marches began from its steps.

A sacred place, this church, not just for blacks, not just for Christians but for every American who cares about the steady expansion…

… of human rights and human dignity in this country, a foundation stone for liberty and justice for all.

That’s what the church meant.

We do not know whether the killer of Reverend Pinckney and eight others knew all of this history, but he surely sensed the meaning of his violent act. It was an act that drew on a long history of bombs and arson and shots fired at churches, not random but as a means of control, a way to terrorize and oppress…

… an act that he imagined would incite fear and recrimination, violence and suspicion, an act that he presumed would deepen divisions that trace back to our nation’s original sin.

Oh, but God works in mysterious ways.

God has different ideas.

He didn’t know he was being used by God.

Blinded by hatred, the alleged killer would not see the grace surrounding Reverend Pinckney and that Bible study group, the light of love that shown as they opened the church doors and invited a stranger to join in their prayer circle.

The alleged killer could have never anticipated the way the families of the fallen would respond when they saw him in court in the midst of unspeakable grief, with words of forgiveness. He couldn’t imagine that.

The alleged killer could not imagine how the city of Charleston under the good and wise leadership of Mayor Riley, how the state of South Carolina, how the United States of America would respond not merely with revulsion at his evil acts, but with (inaudible) generosity. And more importantly, with a thoughtful introspection and self-examination that we so rarely see in public life. Blinded by hatred, he failed to comprehend what Reverend Pinckney so well understood — the power of God’s grace.

This whole week, I’ve been reflecting on this idea of grace.

The grace of the families who lost loved ones; the grace that Reverend Pinckney would preach about in his sermons; the grace described in one of my favorite hymnals, the one we all know — Amazing Grace.

How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.

I once was lost, but now I’m found, was blind but now I see.

According to the Christian tradition, grace is not earned. Grace is not merited. It’s not something we deserve. Rather, grace is the free and benevolent favor of God.

As manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings. Grace — as a nation out of this terrible tragedy, God has visited grace upon us for he has allowed us to see where we’ve been blind.

He’s given us the chance where we’ve been lost to find out best selves. We may not have earned this grace with our rancor and complacency and short-sightedness and fear of each other, but we got it all the same. He gave it to us anyway. He’s once more given us grace.

But it is up to us now to make the most of it, to receive it with gratitude and to prove ourselves worthy of this gift.

...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/06/26/transcript-obama-delivers-eulogy-for-charleston-pastor-the-rev-clementa-pinckney/

Nicely done.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
http://mashable.com/2015/07/22/dylann-roof-charleston-indicted-hate-crime/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Charleston shooting suspect Dylann Roof indicted on federal hate crime charges

Dylann Roof, the 21-year-old suspect accused of killing nine people at a historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina, last month, has been indicted on more than two dozen federal charges.

Attorney General Loretta Lynch announced on Thursday that a federal grand jury had indicted Roof on 33 federal charges for hate crimes and firearms violations. The charges carry a penalty of up to life in prison or the death penalty, but Lynch says it has not been determined if the death penalty will be sought.
 
I am still torn on the subject of federal hate crimes.

A guy walks into a church and murders 9 innocent people. Solely In terms of deciding his punishment, are his motives important?

 
timschochet said:
I am still torn on the subject of federal hate crimes.

A guy walks into a church and murders 9 innocent people. Solely In terms of deciding his punishment, are his motives important?
This has been discussed before in numerous threads over the years and I don't want to get into a debate with the "Every murder is a hate crime" crowd, but just briefly:

Yes, and the intent of the accused goes into play in most prosecutions in our criminal justice system, and in fact when considering the degrees of murder or lesser manslaughter charges quite often turn on the motive or intent of the defendant.

And as a society the hate crime legislation reflects that there should additional punishment for singling out a certain class of people, or a certain type of crime. And if you disagree with that then you should also be against enhanced punishment for violent crimes against police officers (which most states have) because it has been determined that a message be sent regarding violence directed against those who enforce the law.

 
Let's get that death penalty phase complete, run thru the appeals the following week and get this POS 6 feet under by New Years.

That's how it ought to work.

 
Yep.  No need to drag this #### out and try to rehabilitate this psychopath.  He's probably fine with it anyway.  
We should at elast ask him. Maybe we get lucky and he says to finish him off. Of course that also requires the state to man up and take out the garbage.

 
Let's get that death penalty phase complete, run thru the appeals the following week and get this POS 6 feet under by New Years.

That's how it ought to work.
I know this is your dumb schtick but thankfully the victims' families have more humanity and don't want him executed.

 
Let's get that death penalty phase complete, run thru the appeals the following week and get this POS 6 feet under by New Years.

That's how it ought to work.
It does in countries that don't recognize due process under the law such as we do. But even those individuals, who are unquestionably guilty of heinous crimes, are still accorded their Constitutional rights to appeal.

The penalty-phase of the trial will begin on January 3rd.

 
This little puke was a terrorist. He deserves a slow and painful ending. Electric chair seems like giving it a reward. 

I am a conservative that has always been pro cap punishment. This puke changed my mind. Gitmo was made for people like this. You don't give them the pleasure of dying - you put them to the point of talking enough to help you prevent future massacres. 

 
“I would like to make it crystal clear I do not regret what I did,” Roof wrote in the jailhouse journal seized by authorities in 2015, according to the New York Times. “I am not sorry. I have not shed a tear for the innocent people I killed.”

Seriously, execute this POS ASAP. Ask him if he's ready to go. It's a simple question and he will probably say 'yes'. If he doesn't then just say, "well we don't care what you think, it's time for you to die....and we won't regret it'

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top