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Mass Shooting at Orlando Nightclub (1 Viewer)

bueno said:
At a glance, the majority of those are predominantly not Christian.
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I went through the first 20 on the list and 10 of the 20 were populations where more than 50% of the people identified as Christian, with 8 of the 20 being populations where 70% or more were Christian.

I tuckered out before I got all the way through the list.

 
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FreeBaGeL said:
Uganda, off the top of my head gives you life in prison for homosexuality.

Here is a map of all countries where homosexuality is illegal.  I'm not sure what % of those are predominantly Christian or what all of the penalties are in each.
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Maybe we need to look into what countries don't appear to punish citizens that kill someone that is gay. One that turn a blind eye to violence against LBGT.

 
netnalp said:
Nigeria. Google search says it is 40-50% Christian.
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It's only punishable by death in the 12 northern provinces, all of which are predominantly Muslim and all of which are under sharia law.

In the largely Christian southern part of the country, it's still illegal, but the maximum punishment is 14 years in jail. Still awful, but not death.

 
GroveDiesel said:
It's only punishable by death in the 12 northern provinces, all of which are predominantly Muslim and all of which are under sharia law.

In the largely Christian southern part of the country, it's still illegal, but the maximum punishment is 14 years in jail. Still awful, but not death.
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My hunch is that most predominately Christian countries are also more highly educated.

 
Regarding President Obama's use of terminology, from Politifact:

As a general rule, Obama will use the ISIL acronym and call its members "thugs" and "killers."

Obama has explained his verbal strategy as an effort to isolate the group. Earlier this year, Obama said its members are "desperate for legitimacy."

"They try to portray themselves as religious leaders — holy warriors in defense of Islam," Obama said at the close of a summit on violent extremism Feb. 22. "That’s why ISIL presumes to declare itself the ‘Islamic State.’ And they propagate the notion that America — and the West, generally — is at war with Islam."

Obama went on to say "we are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam."

This wording isn’t all that different from former President George W. Bush’s language following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and at the onset of the war in Afghanistan.

"This great nation of many religions understands, our war is not against Islam, or against faith practiced by the Muslim people. Our war is a war against evil," Bush said in January 2002.

 
timschochet said:
Regarding President Obama's use of terminology, from Politifact:

As a general rule, Obama will use the ISIL acronym and call its members "thugs" and "killers."

Obama has explained his verbal strategy as an effort to isolate the group. Earlier this year, Obama said its members are "desperate for legitimacy."

"They try to portray themselves as religious leaders — holy warriors in defense of Islam," Obama said at the close of a summit on violent extremism Feb. 22. "That’s why ISIL presumes to declare itself the ‘Islamic State.’ And they propagate the notion that America — and the West, generally — is at war with Islam."

Obama went on to say "we are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam."

This wording isn’t all that different from former President George W. Bush’s language following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and at the onset of the war in Afghanistan.

"This great nation of many religions understands, our war is not against Islam, or against faith practiced by the Muslim people. Our war is a war against evil," Bush said in January 2002.
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Well at least he doesn't insult a beautiful Goddess.

 
timschochet said:
Regarding President Obama's use of terminology, from Politifact:

As a general rule, Obama will use the ISIL acronym and call its members "thugs" and "killers."

Obama has explained his verbal strategy as an effort to isolate the group. Earlier this year, Obama said its members are "desperate for legitimacy."

"They try to portray themselves as religious leaders — holy warriors in defense of Islam," Obama said at the close of a summit on violent extremism Feb. 22. "That’s why ISIL presumes to declare itself the ‘Islamic State.’ And they propagate the notion that America — and the West, generally — is at war with Islam."

Obama went on to say "we are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam."

This wording isn’t all that different from former President George W. Bush’s language following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and at the onset of the war in Afghanistan.

"This great nation of many religions understands, our war is not against Islam, or against faith practiced by the Muslim people. Our war is a war against evil," Bush said in January 2002.
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Makes sense to me. We don't refer to White Supremacists as Christian White Supremacists or the Christian Klu Klux Klan

 
Abraham said:
we have iKnown each other for many years so I mean this with as much respect as I can convey on an Internet message board:

- he said no such thing 

- the story you linked puts a quote in the headline that doesn't exist. 

- You are better than this. 
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I was misled by the headline.  I take full responsibility for assuming the headline was accurate and not the opinion of the author.

 
beavers said:
Such a sad, sad day. It's been such a surreal feeling, and it's Pride week in Columbus. I just said to my partner yesterday before the shooting, that Pride wasn't a big thing for me this year, and for the first time in 12 years, I suggested not going. We talked about it today, and massacre helped us make the easy decision not to go. We are moms to a 5 yo daughter and with the LA Pride incident in addition to Orlando, it's just not worth it. 

Its so frustrating to see the "GLBT" support when just last week, having a transgender person use the same bathroom was politicized to death. Those very same people are now changing their profile pics in support of the GLBT community. It really makes me wonder if the constant attention and fear brought to my community, has helped cause such horrible acts. 

Days like today makes my heart ache for my daughter. 
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No, don't even begin to think you are responsible. There are some things most U.S. people are not quite ready for, but that is changing.The same cannot be said for others, and for a lot of the rest of the world.

 
I think Obama's remarks were offensive on two fronts. 

To deny this idiot shooters motivation when he declared to a 9/11 operator and still act like his actions is opaque is ridculous.  Did he wonder aloud if we really had to find the reason the other idiot that shot up the black church in South Carolina did.  (Pardon the vague names I don't even like to give these guys the credit of publicizing their name. ). 

And tied to that, this guy declared himself an enemy combatant of isis. He ceased to be part of the "we" in that moment. If apprehended I would have expect him to be dealt with as an enemy combatant and not a citizen. 

So that being said, when Obama says "we" have to better deal with lgbt issues is ridculous.  We are doing ok. We are actually doing good. We now have gay marriage, thanks to Biden going off script when YOU mr president dragged your feet on that issue. To lump the actions of this animal in Isis with "us" is disgusting. 

 
beavers said:
Such a sad, sad day. It's been such a surreal feeling, and it's Pride week in Columbus. I just said to my partner yesterday before the shooting, that Pride wasn't a big thing for me this year, and for the first time in 12 years, I suggested not going. We talked about it today, and massacre helped us make the easy decision not to go. We are moms to a 5 yo daughter and with the LA Pride incident in addition to Orlando, it's just not worth it. 

Its so frustrating to see the "GLBT" support when just last week, having a transgender person use the same bathroom was politicized to death. Those very same people are now changing their profile pics in support of the GLBT community. It really makes me wonder if the constant attention and fear brought to my community, has helped cause such horrible acts. 

Days like today makes my heart ache for my daughter. 
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I believe that by the time your daughter is a young adult, they won't understand why there was even a debate over giving rights to GLBT people. Just like for those who grew up in the 80's and 90's don't get how people could have been against the civil rights movement. Those people supporting segregation seem like real douchebags. 

My teenage nieces and nephews all think that people opposing gay marriage are idiots. I find it encouraging. Millenials, maybe they act entitled, spoiled, but they love the GLBTs. I'll take that tradeoff. 

 
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netnalp said:
Makes sense to me. We don't refer to White Supremacists as Christian White Supremacists or the Christian Klu Klux Klan
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That's logical. But it's much more important than that. As I wrote before, white supremacists are not a threat to our liberty and our way of life. Neither is the KKK. Radical Islam is a threat to our liberty and our way of life! 

So how do we defeat it? Nobody is sure; nobody has a good long term answer. But this much should be evident: we can't defeat it by making it stronger. And we make it stronger every time one of our leaders uses the word "Islam" to describe radical extremists. Although Donald Trump is not yet President (and hopefully never will be) his rhetoric on this issue has already made ISIS immeasurably stronger IMO. 

 
Smack Tripper said:
I think Obama's remarks were offensive on two fronts. 

To deny this idiot shooters motivation when he declared to a 9/11 operator and still act like his actions is opaque is ridculous.  Did he wonder aloud if we really had to find the reason the other idiot that shot up the black church in South Carolina did.  (Pardon the vague names I don't even like to give these guys the credit of publicizing their name. ). 

And tied to that, this guy declared himself an enemy combatant of isis. He ceased to be part of the "we" in that moment. If apprehended I would have expect him to be dealt with as an enemy combatant and not a citizen. 

So that being said, when Obama says "we" have to better deal with lgbt issues is ridculous.  We are doing ok. We are actually doing good. We now have gay marriage, thanks to Biden going off script when YOU mr president dragged your feet on that issue. To lump the actions of this animal in Isis with "us" is disgusting. 
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Again, disagree strongly. This murderer is a radical Islamist to be sure, but he is also an American. He was born here, grew up here. He became a hater of homosexuals here. And he died here. Unfortunately, he is part of "us", as is Timothy McVeigh and Charles Manson. 

 
timschochet said:
So how do we defeat it? Nobody is sure; nobody has a good long term answer. But this much should be evident: we can't defeat it by making it stronger. And we make it stronger every time one of our leaders uses the word "Islam" to describe radical extremists. 
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Such bull####.  

 
ShamrockPride said:
How about you be an adult and explain your clearly opposite view? Or is that too tall a task for your small mind?
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Not at all. See if you can follow along Einstein. You think only islands can have gun control. Still with me? I think that opinion is freaking hilarious. Then - and I hope I haven't lost you - I laughed. 

The end.

 
Sand said:
Such bull####.  
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Is it? Every expert on the Middle East and Muslim extremism has said the same thing. Ever read The Looming Tower? Conservatives used to swear by that book. Well it's author says the same thing. 

Do you really think Obama makes the decision to avoid using the word "Islam" as much as possible off the top of his head? He avoids it because he has experts in the CIA, the State Department, and Homeland Security urging him not to say it, because EVERY word that comes out of a President's mouth can have dangerous consequences. I get that you and many others want the short term emotional satisfaction of a "tough" sounding President attacking Islam, but what then? It's only going to make the situation much much worse. 

 
beavers said:
I used to believe so, and I'm sure that feeling will come back again. But today, I feel defeated and am scared for my kid. When will this madness end? She, like many other young kids, will learn of this evil of massacres. Growing up, we had tornado drills. Now, kids have active shooter drills. I'm fearful that this attack has opened Pandora's box. I've wondered in the past, given the homophobic vitriol, why this didn't happen already. ?

And, after every mass shooting, it's the same response -thoughts and prayers, ribbons, politics, etc. I'm tired of this. 
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Most people are good, beavers. Please keep trying to believe that. Most people, the vast majority, believe in love and not hate. 

 
timschochet said:
Again, disagree strongly. This murderer is a radical Islamist to be sure, but he is also an American. He was born here, grew up here. He became a hater of homosexuals here. And he died here. Unfortunately, he is part of "us", as is Timothy McVeigh and Charles Manson. 
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I say that calling him an American ISIS supporter and anti-gay terrorist would be more accurate than radical Islamist.

 
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timschochet said:
Again, disagree strongly. This murderer is a radical Islamist to be sure, but he is also an American. He was born here, grew up here. He became a hater of homosexuals here. And he died here. Unfortunately, he is part of "us", as is Timothy McVeigh and Charles Manson. 
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To my knowledge, mcveigh and Manson never declared aliegance to a foreign army. 

 
Smack Tripper said:
To my knowledge, mcveigh and Manson never declared aliegance to a foreign army. 
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I don't think that's a distinction that makes him any less American. This guy was an American, and evil, and a murderer. But Obama is right: we need to continue to fight for the liberty and equality of gay and lesbians everywhere, not just in this country, but around the world. 

 
timschochet said:
Is it? Every expert on the Middle East and Muslim extremism has said the same thing. Ever read The Looming Tower? Conservatives used to swear by that book. Well it's author says the same thing. 

Do you really think Obama makes the decision to avoid using the word "Islam" as much as possible off the top of his head? He avoids it because he has experts in the CIA, the State Department, and Homeland Security urging him not to say it, because EVERY word that comes out of a President's mouth can have dangerous consequences. I get that you and many others want the short term emotional satisfaction of a "tough" sounding President attacking Islam, but what then? It's only going to make the situation much much worse. 
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Also those that are peaceful followers of Islam probably don't appreciate "Radical Islamist" being used to refer to these terrorist. The reason is some people generalize it to being all of or most of Islam has the same mindset of the terrorists. 

 
timschochet said:
Is it? Every expert on the Middle East and Muslim extremism has said the same thing. Ever read The Looming Tower? Conservatives used to swear by that book. Well it's author says the same thing. 

Do you really think Obama makes the decision to avoid using the word "Islam" as much as possible off the top of his head? He avoids it because he has experts in the CIA, the State Department, and Homeland Security urging him not to say it, because EVERY word that comes out of a President's mouth can have dangerous consequences. I get that you and many others want the short term emotional satisfaction of a "tough" sounding President attacking Islam, but what then? It's only going to make the situation much much worse. 
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I think he avoids it because he can.  He is counting down the days until he is out and he knows ISIS can't do anything significantly enough on his watch to really tarnish him through his supporters eyes.  He's going to leave quite a mess for Hillary though as there are many terrorists now over here recruiting than before.  And BTW, these radicals could give two ####s what our president calls them.  They aren't civilized people.  They aren't going to suddenly stop trying to kill us if we call them daddy and talk nice.  

 
timschochet said:
I don't think that's a distinction that makes him any less American. This guy was an American, and evil, and a murderer. But Obama is right: we need to continue to fight for the liberty and equality of gay and lesbians everywhere, not just in this country, but around the world. 
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This was by definition an act of treason. 

I don't know if he gets his day if he lived in federal court or in a miltary court as an enemy combatant but I have no problem saying he ceded his rights with that choice but I don't know if a court would agree with me

 
Sitora Yusufiy, who married mass murderer Omar Mateen shortly after they met online in 2009, has described how he 'seemed like a normal human being' at first, but he soon turned violent.

Speaking to reporters on Sunday evening with her fiance beside her, Yusufiy said she thought the shooting had ‘nothing to do’ with religion and had more to do with mental illness.

Yusufiy, who said she did not agree with Mateen’s views, revealed her ex-husband was mentally unstable and had bipolar disorder, yet wanted to become a police officer and had applied to the police academy.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637857/My-parents-saved-life-Orlando-gunman-s-ex-wife-reveals-beat-not-doing-household-chores-survived-mother-father-intervened.html#ixzz4BQkqhmd3
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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BTW, 9/10.

 
dschuler said:
I think he avoids it because he can.  He is counting down the days until he is out and he knows ISIS can't do anything significantly enough on his watch to really tarnish him through his supporters eyes.  He's going to leave quite a mess for Hillary though as there are many terrorists now over here recruiting than before.  And BTW, these radicals could give two ####s what our president calls them.  They aren't civilized people.  They aren't going to suddenly stop trying to kill us if we call them daddy and talk nice.  
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You're still not getting the point. Obama doesn't care what the radicals think. He cares what the young Muslims think who aren't radicals but might feel some sympathy for them. They're the one we need to stop from becoming radicals. When we attack Islam a whole we lead them right into the radicals hands. 

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
Not at all. See if you can follow along Einstein. You think only islands can have gun control. Still with me? I think that opinion is freaking hilarious. Then - and I hope I haven't lost you - I laughed. 

The end.
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Good job being a big boy and expressing your thoughts.

Never said that. Simply used those examples cause those are always the two countries people use gun control statistics for.

 
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ShamrockPride said:
Good job being a big boy and expressing your thoughts.

Never said that. Simply used those examples cause those are always the two countries people use gun control statistics for.
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:lmao:  Jesus. My bad - when you said we could gun control all we want but it wouldn't do jack #### because we weren't an island nation like Australia, and then added the supporting argument that water was easier to patrol than land, I guess I jumped to the conclusion that you were saying that only islands can have gun control. Thanks for editing and adding the part about expressing your thoughts.  :thumbup: I always appreciate irony.

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
:lmao:  Jesus. My bad - when you said we could gun control all we want but it wouldn't do jack #### because we weren't an island nation like Australia, and then added the supporting argument that water was easier to patrol than land, I guess I jumped to the conclusion that you were saying that only islands can have gun control. Thanks for editing and adding the part about expressing your thoughts.  :thumbup: I always appreciate irony.
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I still stick to that point.

PS thanks for anticipating my comment so much that you caught my edit. Means a lot you were waiting for me.

 
What sucks the most about this is there's probably going to be another mass shooting next year. They're impossible to prevent. Seems like there's a mass shooting every year. 

Humans just suck. 

I can just imagine people frantically calling their loved ones but not getting an answer. Has to be the worst feeling in the world. 

 
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Gachi said:
What sucks the most about this is there's probably going to be another mass shooting next year. They're impossible to prevent. Seems like there's a mass shooting every year. 

Humans just suck. 

I can just imagine people frantically calling their loved ones but not getting an answer. Has to be the worst feeling in the world. 
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Next year?   We're lucky if we don't have one in the next week.

 
Fox is reporting that the gunman was a follower of Marcus Dwayne Robertson and was enrolled in his Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary.  Robertson was recently released from prison and was once a bodyguard to the Blind Sheik involved in the 1993 World Trade Center attacks.  The Washington Post is reporting the gunman was at the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce with Imam Shafiq Rahman two days before the attack and that he knew American-born suicide bomber Monar abu Salha.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources.html?intcmp=hpbt1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/ex-wife-of-suspected-orlando-shooter-he-beat-me/2016/06/12/8a1963b4-30b8-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
Fox is reporting that the gunman was a follower of Marcus Dwayne Robertson and was enrolled in his Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary.  Robertson was recently released from prison and was once a bodyguard to the Blind Sheik involved in the 1993 World Trade Center attacks.  The Washington Post is reporting the gunman was at the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce with Imam Shafiq Rahman two days before the attack and that he knew American-born suicide bomber Monar abu Salha.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources.html?intcmp=hpbt1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/ex-wife-of-suspected-orlando-shooter-he-beat-me/2016/06/12/8a1963b4-30b8-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html
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That's a straight line from the 1993 WTC attack to Orlando 2016.

 
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