Matt Lepsis retires (1 Viewer)

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I am not a Bronco fan, though I live in Colorado and get to/have to watch all of their games. This guy came into the league out of CU. He was a T.E., had good foot work, and no business playing Tackle in the NFL due to his size and lack of experience. The Broncos had recently had Gary Zimmerman and then Tony Jones at the left side and the thought that this undersized, under skilled, kid could do the job was preposterous. Still, with the help of Alex Gibbs, his team mates, and incredible work and perserverence he became a very good Left Tackle. Today he retired stating his intent was to give the team the maximum amount of time to plan his replacement. He stated he was retiring because in his evaluation his play had deteriorated to the point where he was not earning his salary. He did this though there was zero clammor for this move. Seems a real straight shooter and a decent and humble guy. I note that as it is so rare these days.

Story here

 

[Jiggyonthehut]

Class guy to the very end.

 

[redman]

Cool story. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[SSOG]

Matt Lepsis is the Fred Taylor of left tackles. He never gets the accolades or recognition, but he was consistently one of the best players in the league at his position. He will be sorely missed.

 

[Prodigal19]

he was a great tackle, but this year he didnt do to well I guess do to his age and inuries. He said that his lack of eprformance was the main reason for him retiring.

 

[awesomeness]

Matt Lepsis is the Fred Taylor of left tackles. He never gets the accolades or recognition, but he was consistently one of the best players in the league at his position. He will be sorely missed.

dude you cant make a comparison like that. How many offensive lineman get accolades and recognition? maybe 4-5? I can name Ogden, Pace, Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson, and Chris Samuel (i think thats the name of the guy on the skins).

 

[msommer]

Career overachiever - is that not an oxymoron?

 

[phthalatemagic]

Career overachiever - is that not an oxymoron?

Overachiever is an oxymoron. It is impossible to surpass your own potential.

 

[SSOG]

Matt Lepsis is the Fred Taylor of left tackles. He never gets the accolades or recognition, but he was consistently one of the best players in the league at his position. He will be sorely missed.

dude you cant make a comparison like that. How many offensive lineman get accolades and recognition? maybe 4-5? I can name Ogden, Pace, Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson, and Chris Samuel (i think thats the name of the guy on the skins).

Ummm... lots? When last I checked, offensive linemen get invited to the pro bowl just like RBs, WRs, and QBs. Matt Lepsis was probably one of the top 3 LTs in the league over the past 5 years, but he never got a single pro bowl selection. Kind of like Fred Taylor, who I'm apparently not allowed to compare him to. Also, if you polled a casual fan, most could name three tackles (the three you named)- Ogden, Pace, and Jones. Matt Lepsis was playing at as high of a level as those three over the past 3-4 years (higher than some of them, actually...), but nobody knew his name, which pretty much defines "not getting any recognition".

 

[BoltBacker]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

 

[SSOG]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

I don't remember the details of Tanuvasa, but I very clearly remember the details of Spicer. Two guys went to block him at the same time. He was injured. The officials threw no flags, and the league reviewed the play and assessed no fines. Matt Lepsis was guilty of nothing other than blocking a guy who was going unabated to his QB. It's unfortunate what happened, but it's hardly a reflection on Lepsis.

 

[BoltBacker]

I don't think this is going to matter but...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...31/drz_insider/

"We all know, of course, that clipping is a foul, a dangerous tactic. But what the league is telling us is that it's dangerous everywhere except near the line, where just about anything goes. I have never understood the reasoning behind this. I guess the thinking is that you can't hurt a guy by clipping him within a confined area because you can't get up enough momentum. You can only break his leg, as two Denver linemen have done to opponents in successive weeks.

The first one, Matt Lepsis' dive on the back of San Diego DE Maa Tanuvasa's legs, drew a $15,000 fine but not a penalty. It's tough for officials to spot this kind of thing away from a play, and maybe, if he actually did see it, the referee thought that Lepsis was within the legal clip zone. I saw the clip. It was a nasty cheap shot, but it looked legal by the league's definition. If he was outside the zone, it was only slightly." ~ Sports Illustrated senior writer Paul Zimmerman

... hey, if there wasn't a flag thrown then it wasn't a cheap shot endangering anyone right?

 

[SSOG]

I don't think this is going to matter but...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...31/drz_insider/

"We all know, of course, that clipping is a foul, a dangerous tactic. But what the league is telling us is that it's dangerous everywhere except near the line, where just about anything goes. I have never understood the reasoning behind this. I guess the thinking is that you can't hurt a guy by clipping him within a confined area because you can't get up enough momentum. You can only break his leg, as two Denver linemen have done to opponents in successive weeks.

The first one, Matt Lepsis' dive on the back of San Diego DE Maa Tanuvasa's legs, drew a $15,000 fine but not a penalty. It's tough for officials to spot this kind of thing away from a play, and maybe, if he actually did see it, the referee thought that Lepsis was within the legal clip zone. I saw the clip. It was a nasty cheap shot, but it looked legal by the league's definition. If he was outside the zone, it was only slightly." ~ Sports Illustrated senior writer Paul Zimmerman

... hey, if there wasn't a flag thrown then it wasn't a cheap shot endangering anyone right?

If he was fined, then he crossed the line. No argument, although I do feel compelled to point out that a fine speaks to result, not intent (from Z's description, it sounds like Lepsis took a cheap shot, although I'll also point out that Z is hardly the most partial observer when it comes to this). I'm curious how many times during his career Lepsis has been fined, though. A brief search suggests that he has only been fined twice in his career for an illegal block (at least, only twice that I can find). You want to judge a player based on two fines occurred in 2001, then be my guest.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Lepsis is a beast downfield making blocks.

 

[jonessed]

I don't think this is going to matter but...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...31/drz_insider/

"We all know, of course, that clipping is a foul, a dangerous tactic. But what the league is telling us is that it's dangerous everywhere except near the line, where just about anything goes. I have never understood the reasoning behind this. I guess the thinking is that you can't hurt a guy by clipping him within a confined area because you can't get up enough momentum. You can only break his leg, as two Denver linemen have done to opponents in successive weeks.

The first one, Matt Lepsis' dive on the back of San Diego DE Maa Tanuvasa's legs, drew a $15,000 fine but not a penalty. It's tough for officials to spot this kind of thing away from a play, and maybe, if he actually did see it, the referee thought that Lepsis was within the legal clip zone. I saw the clip. It was a nasty cheap shot, but it looked legal by the league's definition. If he was outside the zone, it was only slightly." ~ Sports Illustrated senior writer Paul Zimmerman

... hey, if there wasn't a flag thrown then it wasn't a cheap shot endangering anyone right?

If he was fined, then he crossed the line. No argument, although I do feel compelled to point out that a fine speaks to result, not intent (from Z's description, it sounds like Lepsis took a cheap shot, although I'll also point out that Z is hardly the most partial observer when it comes to this). I'm curious how many times during his career Lepsis has been fined, though. A brief search suggests that he has only been fined twice in his career for an illegal block (at least, only twice that I can find). You want to judge a player based on two fines occurred in 2001, then be my guest.

The Tanuvasa hit was a major cheapshot. $15K was a pretty big fine back then.

 

[SSOG]

I don't think this is going to matter but...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...31/drz_insider/

"We all know, of course, that clipping is a foul, a dangerous tactic. But what the league is telling us is that it's dangerous everywhere except near the line, where just about anything goes. I have never understood the reasoning behind this. I guess the thinking is that you can't hurt a guy by clipping him within a confined area because you can't get up enough momentum. You can only break his leg, as two Denver linemen have done to opponents in successive weeks.

The first one, Matt Lepsis' dive on the back of San Diego DE Maa Tanuvasa's legs, drew a $15,000 fine but not a penalty. It's tough for officials to spot this kind of thing away from a play, and maybe, if he actually did see it, the referee thought that Lepsis was within the legal clip zone. I saw the clip. It was a nasty cheap shot, but it looked legal by the league's definition. If he was outside the zone, it was only slightly." ~ Sports Illustrated senior writer Paul Zimmerman

... hey, if there wasn't a flag thrown then it wasn't a cheap shot endangering anyone right?

If he was fined, then he crossed the line. No argument, although I do feel compelled to point out that a fine speaks to result, not intent (from Z's description, it sounds like Lepsis took a cheap shot, although I'll also point out that Z is hardly the most partial observer when it comes to this). I'm curious how many times during his career Lepsis has been fined, though. A brief search suggests that he has only been fined twice in his career for an illegal block (at least, only twice that I can find). You want to judge a player based on two fines occurred in 2001, then be my guest.

The Tanuvasa hit was a major cheapshot. $15K was a pretty big fine back then.

Like I said, I don't recall it, so I really can't say one way or another. I'm trying to stay objective about it, which is hard because I'm a big Lepsis fan.

 

[awesomeness]

I don't think this is going to matter but...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...31/drz_insider/

"We all know, of course, that clipping is a foul, a dangerous tactic. But what the league is telling us is that it's dangerous everywhere except near the line, where just about anything goes. I have never understood the reasoning behind this. I guess the thinking is that you can't hurt a guy by clipping him within a confined area because you can't get up enough momentum. You can only break his leg, as two Denver linemen have done to opponents in successive weeks.

The first one, Matt Lepsis' dive on the back of San Diego DE Maa Tanuvasa's legs, drew a $15,000 fine but not a penalty. It's tough for officials to spot this kind of thing away from a play, and maybe, if he actually did see it, the referee thought that Lepsis was within the legal clip zone. I saw the clip. It was a nasty cheap shot, but it looked legal by the league's definition. If he was outside the zone, it was only slightly." ~ Sports Illustrated senior writer Paul Zimmerman

... hey, if there wasn't a flag thrown then it wasn't a cheap shot endangering anyone right?

If he was fined, then he crossed the line. No argument, although I do feel compelled to point out that a fine speaks to result, not intent (from Z's description, it sounds like Lepsis took a cheap shot, although I'll also point out that Z is hardly the most partial observer when it comes to this). I'm curious how many times during his career Lepsis has been fined, though. A brief search suggests that he has only been fined twice in his career for an illegal block (at least, only twice that I can find). You want to judge a player based on two fines occurred in 2001, then be my guest.

Im pretty sure a fine is for intent. If it weren't, then the Steeler player who stomped on Ricky Williams back would have been fined.

 

[Banger]

The big question I have is how this will effect their line going forward. They weren't able to effectively run the ball this year and the once vaunted Denver O-line looks to be going the way of KC over the past two years. Denver's talent is at the TE/WR position so I wonder if the offense will follow.

 

[rascal]

The big question I have is how this will effect their line going forward. They weren't able to effectively run the ball this year and the once vaunted Denver O-line looks to be going the way of KC over the past two years. Denver's talent is at the TE/WR position so I wonder if the offense will follow.

IMO they will miss him more in run blocking then pass blocking were his ability had degraded.On the bright side it looks like Nalen is coming back for one more year. It's still unsure about Hamilton though.According to local papers Harris is expected to replace Nalen and I have my doubts to be honest. He has had two back surgeries in two consecutive years, and he can't maintain weight during the season due to Ramadan. People always say that Shanny doesn't start rookie o-lineman so there is no point in drafting one this year. Well I think Shanny will start whoever is going to do the best job, and frankly I don't have much faith in Harris.The local papers also seem pretty confident that the Broncos will make a move to shore up the RT spot where Pears struggled significantly during the year.That KU o-lineman Collins is going to declare today, and I think he would be an excellent LT for the Broncos and could be had in the second round.

 

[Banger]

People always say that Shanny doesn't start rookie o-lineman so there is no point in drafting one this year. Well I think Shanny will start whoever is going to do the best job, and frankly I don't have much faith in Harris.

The local papers also seem pretty confident that the Broncos will make a move to shore up the RT spot where Pears struggled significantly during the year.

That KU o-lineman Collins is going to declare today, and I think he would be an excellent LT for the Broncos and could be had in the second round.

You can throw all that out the window IMO. When's the last time the team has had a line this bad and potentially could get worse before it gets better. He'll start the best players regardless. In the past they may have had the luxury/depth to take their time to move guys in but those days are gone.

 

[rascal]

People always say that Shanny doesn't start rookie o-lineman so there is no point in drafting one this year. Well I think Shanny will start whoever is going to do the best job, and frankly I don't have much faith in Harris.

The local papers also seem pretty confident that the Broncos will make a move to shore up the RT spot where Pears struggled significantly during the year.

That KU o-lineman Collins is going to declare today, and I think he would be an excellent LT for the Broncos and could be had in the second round.

You can throw all that out the window IMO. When's the last time the team has had a line this bad and potentially could get worse before it gets better. He'll start the best players regardless. In the past they may have had the luxury/depth to take their time to move guys in but those days are gone.

I completely agree.

 

[SSOG]

The big question I have is how this will effect their line going forward. They weren't able to effectively run the ball this year and the once vaunted Denver O-line looks to be going the way of KC over the past two years. Denver's talent is at the TE/WR position so I wonder if the offense will follow.

Denver was 9th in rushing yards and 5th in yards per attempt this season. The reason people think their running game struggled is because (a) they were 18th in attempts (which is hugely uncharacteristic for Denver), and (b) their running game really did struggle in a big way in short yardage. Of course, most short yardage runs are right up the middle, behind where Nalen and Hamilton should have been (but weren't), which is a large part of the explanation for that.

People always say that Shanny doesn't start rookie o-lineman so there is no point in drafting one this year. Well I think Shanny will start whoever is going to do the best job, and frankly I don't have much faith in Harris.

The local papers also seem pretty confident that the Broncos will make a move to shore up the RT spot where Pears struggled significantly during the year.

That KU o-lineman Collins is going to declare today, and I think he would be an excellent LT for the Broncos and could be had in the second round.

You can throw all that out the window IMO. When's the last time the team has had a line this bad and potentially could get worse before it gets better. He'll start the best players regardless. In the past they may have had the luxury/depth to take their time to move guys in but those days are gone.

Denver drafted George Foster in the first round- far and away the highest they have drafted any offensive lineman- and he wound up sitting out an entire season despite the fact that Denver was starting EPHRAIM SALAAM. If a rookie is playing the best I agree that he'll get the start, but I don't think any of the rookies outside of Long are talented enough to overcome the problems they're going to inevitably have with the scheme. The thing about the ZBS is that you're better served by 5 bad players who play together in tandem than by 5 good players who don't.

 

[rascal]

The big question I have is how this will effect their line going forward. They weren't able to effectively run the ball this year and the once vaunted Denver O-line looks to be going the way of KC over the past two years. Denver's talent is at the TE/WR position so I wonder if the offense will follow.

Denver was 9th in rushing yards and 5th in yards per attempt this season. The reason people think their running game struggled is because (a) they were 18th in attempts (which is hugely uncharacteristic for Denver), and (b) their running game really did struggle in a big way in short yardage. Of course, most short yardage runs are right up the middle, behind where Nalen and Hamilton should have been (but weren't), which is a large part of the explanation for that.

People always say that Shanny doesn't start rookie o-lineman so there is no point in drafting one this year. Well I think Shanny will start whoever is going to do the best job, and frankly I don't have much faith in Harris.

The local papers also seem pretty confident that the Broncos will make a move to shore up the RT spot where Pears struggled significantly during the year.

That KU o-lineman Collins is going to declare today, and I think he would be an excellent LT for the Broncos and could be had in the second round.

You can throw all that out the window IMO. When's the last time the team has had a line this bad and potentially could get worse before it gets better. He'll start the best players regardless. In the past they may have had the luxury/depth to take their time to move guys in but those days are gone.

Denver drafted George Foster in the first round- far and away the highest they have drafted any offensive lineman- and he wound up sitting out an entire season despite the fact that Denver was starting EPHRAIM SALAAM. If a rookie is playing the best I agree that he'll get the start, but I don't think any of the rookies outside of Long are talented enough to overcome the problems they're going to inevitably have with the scheme. The thing about the ZBS is that you're better served by 5 bad players who play together in tandem than by 5 good players who don't.

Ephraim Salaam is starting for a NFL team. Can't say the same for George Foster.

 

[SSOG]

The big question I have is how this will effect their line going forward. They weren't able to effectively run the ball this year and the once vaunted Denver O-line looks to be going the way of KC over the past two years. Denver's talent is at the TE/WR position so I wonder if the offense will follow.

Denver was 9th in rushing yards and 5th in yards per attempt this season. The reason people think their running game struggled is because (a) they were 18th in attempts (which is hugely uncharacteristic for Denver), and (b) their running game really did struggle in a big way in short yardage. Of course, most short yardage runs are right up the middle, behind where Nalen and Hamilton should have been (but weren't), which is a large part of the explanation for that.

People always say that Shanny doesn't start rookie o-lineman so there is no point in drafting one this year. Well I think Shanny will start whoever is going to do the best job, and frankly I don't have much faith in Harris.

The local papers also seem pretty confident that the Broncos will make a move to shore up the RT spot where Pears struggled significantly during the year.

That KU o-lineman Collins is going to declare today, and I think he would be an excellent LT for the Broncos and could be had in the second round.

You can throw all that out the window IMO. When's the last time the team has had a line this bad and potentially could get worse before it gets better. He'll start the best players regardless. In the past they may have had the luxury/depth to take their time to move guys in but those days are gone.

Denver drafted George Foster in the first round- far and away the highest they have drafted any offensive lineman- and he wound up sitting out an entire season despite the fact that Denver was starting EPHRAIM SALAAM. If a rookie is playing the best I agree that he'll get the start, but I don't think any of the rookies outside of Long are talented enough to overcome the problems they're going to inevitably have with the scheme. The thing about the ZBS is that you're better served by 5 bad players who play together in tandem than by 5 good players who don't.

Ephraim Salaam is starting for a NFL team. Can't say the same for George Foster.

Doesn't change the fact that George Foster demonstrates two things- first round tackles are far from a sure thing (Robert Gallery and Mike Williams, anyone?), and rookies don't start no matter how much the team has invested in them. If Foster couldn't crack the starting lineup when he was a first rounder and Salaam was starting, I think any rookie is going to be hard pressed to do it. They'll need to be a Marcus McNeill/Joe Thomas, and I think it's unlikely that Denver winds up with one of those.

 

[Jiggyonthehut]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

I don't remember the details of Tanuvasa, but I very clearly remember the details of Spicer. Two guys went to block him at the same time. He was injured. The officials threw no flags, and the league reviewed the play and assessed no fines. Matt Lepsis was guilty of nothing other than blocking a guy who was going unabated to his QB. It's unfortunate what happened, but it's hardly a reflection on Lepsis.

I'm a Jags fan. The spicer hit was low but clean. Carry on hater.

 

[BoltBacker]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

I don't remember the details of Tanuvasa, but I very clearly remember the details of Spicer. Two guys went to block him at the same time. He was injured. The officials threw no flags, and the league reviewed the play and assessed no fines. Matt Lepsis was guilty of nothing other than blocking a guy who was going unabated to his QB. It's unfortunate what happened, but it's hardly a reflection on Lepsis.

I'm a Jags fan. The spicer hit was low but clean. Carry on hater.

"Legal" and "clean" can be too different things imo. Diving at a guy at or below the knee(especially when you're behind him) in my opinion isn't "clean"... period. The rules say it's legal at a certain place on the field but I'd hardly call that tactic "clean".

 

[Jiggyonthehut]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

I don't remember the details of Tanuvasa, but I very clearly remember the details of Spicer. Two guys went to block him at the same time. He was injured. The officials threw no flags, and the league reviewed the play and assessed no fines. Matt Lepsis was guilty of nothing other than blocking a guy who was going unabated to his QB. It's unfortunate what happened, but it's hardly a reflection on Lepsis.

I'm a Jags fan. The spicer hit was low but clean. Carry on hater.

"Legal" and "clean" can be too different things imo. Diving at a guy at or below the knee(especially when you're behind him) in my opinion isn't "clean"... period. The rules say it's legal at a certain place on the field but I'd hardly call that tactic "clean".

You're rightHit--> LegalMerriman--> Not Clean

 

[BoltBacker]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

I don't remember the details of Tanuvasa, but I very clearly remember the details of Spicer. Two guys went to block him at the same time. He was injured. The officials threw no flags, and the league reviewed the play and assessed no fines. Matt Lepsis was guilty of nothing other than blocking a guy who was going unabated to his QB. It's unfortunate what happened, but it's hardly a reflection on Lepsis.

I'm a Jags fan. The spicer hit was low but clean. Carry on hater.

"Legal" and "clean" can be too different things imo. Diving at a guy at or below the knee(especially when you're behind him) in my opinion isn't "clean"... period. The rules say it's legal at a certain place on the field but I'd hardly call that tactic "clean".

You're rightHit--> LegalMerriman--> Not Clean

I don't blame you for trying to change the subject. If I was trying to defend a guy diving at below the knees of a player running away from him I'd probably give up too.

 

[Jiggyonthehut]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

I don't remember the details of Tanuvasa, but I very clearly remember the details of Spicer. Two guys went to block him at the same time. He was injured. The officials threw no flags, and the league reviewed the play and assessed no fines. Matt Lepsis was guilty of nothing other than blocking a guy who was going unabated to his QB. It's unfortunate what happened, but it's hardly a reflection on Lepsis.

I'm a Jags fan. The spicer hit was low but clean. Carry on hater.

"Legal" and "clean" can be too different things imo. Diving at a guy at or below the knee(especially when you're behind him) in my opinion isn't "clean"... period. The rules say it's legal at a certain place on the field but I'd hardly call that tactic "clean".

You're rightHit--> LegalMerriman--> Not Clean

I don't blame you for trying to change the subject. If I was trying to defend a guy diving at below the knees of a player running away from him I'd probably give up too.

Did I forget 'not legal' for Merriman?

 

[BoltBacker]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

I don't remember the details of Tanuvasa, but I very clearly remember the details of Spicer. Two guys went to block him at the same time. He was injured. The officials threw no flags, and the league reviewed the play and assessed no fines. Matt Lepsis was guilty of nothing other than blocking a guy who was going unabated to his QB. It's unfortunate what happened, but it's hardly a reflection on Lepsis.

I'm a Jags fan. The spicer hit was low but clean. Carry on hater.

"Legal" and "clean" can be too different things imo. Diving at a guy at or below the knee(especially when you're behind him) in my opinion isn't "clean"... period. The rules say it's legal at a certain place on the field but I'd hardly call that tactic "clean".

You're rightHit--> LegalMerriman--> Not Clean

I don't blame you for trying to change the subject. If I was trying to defend a guy diving at below the knees of a player running away from him I'd probably give up too.

Did I forget 'not legal' for Merriman?

You forgot Merriman has nothing to do with a thread about Lepsis. But don't fret, it's far from you worst post... or "the STORY of your posting" for that matter. You've kept the bar pretty low.

 

[Jiggyonthehut]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

I don't remember the details of Tanuvasa, but I very clearly remember the details of Spicer. Two guys went to block him at the same time. He was injured. The officials threw no flags, and the league reviewed the play and assessed no fines. Matt Lepsis was guilty of nothing other than blocking a guy who was going unabated to his QB. It's unfortunate what happened, but it's hardly a reflection on Lepsis.

I'm a Jags fan. The spicer hit was low but clean. Carry on hater.

"Legal" and "clean" can be too different things imo. Diving at a guy at or below the knee(especially when you're behind him) in my opinion isn't "clean"... period. The rules say it's legal at a certain place on the field but I'd hardly call that tactic "clean".

You're rightHit--> Legal

Merriman--> Not Clean

I don't blame you for trying to change the subject. If I was trying to defend a guy diving at below the knees of a player running away from him I'd probably give up too.

Did I forget 'not legal' for Merriman?

You forgot Merriman has nothing to do with a thread about Lepsis. But don't fret, it's far from you worst post... or "the STORY of your posting" for that matter. You've kept the bar pretty low.

Norv Turner down?

 

[BoltBacker]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

I don't remember the details of Tanuvasa, but I very clearly remember the details of Spicer. Two guys went to block him at the same time. He was injured. The officials threw no flags, and the league reviewed the play and assessed no fines. Matt Lepsis was guilty of nothing other than blocking a guy who was going unabated to his QB. It's unfortunate what happened, but it's hardly a reflection on Lepsis.

I'm a Jags fan. The spicer hit was low but clean. Carry on hater.

"Legal" and "clean" can be too different things imo. Diving at a guy at or below the knee(especially when you're behind him) in my opinion isn't "clean"... period. The rules say it's legal at a certain place on the field but I'd hardly call that tactic "clean".

You're rightHit--> Legal

Merriman--> Not Clean

I don't blame you for trying to change the subject. If I was trying to defend a guy diving at below the knees of a player running away from him I'd probably give up too.

Did I forget 'not legal' for Merriman?

You forgot Merriman has nothing to do with a thread about Lepsis. But don't fret, it's far from you worst post... or "the STORY of your posting" for that matter. You've kept the bar pretty low.

Norv Turner down?

Well that's three posts in a row that have nothing to do with Lepsis. Here's a tip: When you are in a thread about a particular subject... you may want to mix in a few posts that actually have to do with the subject of the thread. Now reread the last sentence. Once more, but slower. Here to help.

 

[BoltBacker]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

I don't remember the details of Tanuvasa, but I very clearly remember the details of Spicer. Two guys went to block him at the same time. He was injured. The officials threw no flags, and the league reviewed the play and assessed no fines. Matt Lepsis was guilty of nothing other than blocking a guy who was going unabated to his QB. It's unfortunate what happened, but it's hardly a reflection on Lepsis.

I'm a Jags fan. The spicer hit was low but clean. Carry on hater.

"Legal" and "clean" can be too different things imo. Diving at a guy at or below the knee(especially when you're behind him) in my opinion isn't "clean"... period. The rules say it's legal at a certain place on the field but I'd hardly call that tactic "clean".

You're rightHit--> Legal

Merriman--> Not Clean

I don't blame you for trying to change the subject. If I was trying to defend a guy diving at below the knees of a player running away from him I'd probably give up too.

Did I forget 'not legal' for Merriman?

You forgot Merriman has nothing to do with a thread about Lepsis. But don't fret, it's far from you worst post... or "the STORY of your posting" for that matter. You've kept the bar pretty low.

Norv Turner down?

Why? Did Lepsis hit him below the knees from behind?See, it's really not that difficult to work the subect into your posts.

 

[SSOG]

Class guy to the very end.

Tell it to Maa Tanuvasa. Or Paul Spicer.

I don't remember the details of Tanuvasa, but I very clearly remember the details of Spicer. Two guys went to block him at the same time. He was injured. The officials threw no flags, and the league reviewed the play and assessed no fines. Matt Lepsis was guilty of nothing other than blocking a guy who was going unabated to his QB. It's unfortunate what happened, but it's hardly a reflection on Lepsis.

I'm a Jags fan. The spicer hit was low but clean. Carry on hater.

"Legal" and "clean" can be too different things imo. Diving at a guy at or below the knee(especially when you're behind him) in my opinion isn't "clean"... period. The rules say it's legal at a certain place on the field but I'd hardly call that tactic "clean".

Look, if a Jags fan has no problem with the hit, odds are it was a clean hit. Spicer got past Lepsis, who then tried to do a simple cut block- and before you complain about the cut block, EVERY tackle in the league cuts when they've just gotten beat. It's the only way to prevent the DE from going unabated to the QB (and what DEs do when they get to a QB unabated is worse than cut blocking on the "intent" scale, FWIW- football is a violent sport). Unfortunately for Spicer, Droughns saw him coming unabated and went to block him high at the same time that Lepsis did his desperation cut. The result was an entirely unintentional chop block, which is a very bad thing. In that case, the hit was illegal, but clean.And don't tell me that because Lepsis cuts he's dirty. Let's ignore the fact that every single offensive lineman in the NFL cut blocks for a moment. A side effect of cut blocking is that it gets the other player worried about something other than football, yes (it's not the purpose of the cut block, but it is a result). Of course, that's the exact same purpose of a safety hitting any WR who goes over the middle. Is every safety in the NFL dirty, too? And every LB? And DEs are often taught to use the QB's body to cushion their fall on sacks. Is every DE now dirty? And when an RB lowers his shoulder and initiates contact and talks about making sure the defense feels it, he's obviously talking about getting the defense thinking twice before they tackle him. Are RBs now dirty? Is every single NFL player dirty except for the QBs, now?

 

[BoltBacker]

And don't tell me that because Lepsis cuts he's dirty. Let's ignore the fact that every single offensive lineman in the NFL cut blocks for a moment. A side effect of cut blocking is that it gets the other player worried about something other than football, yes (it's not the purpose of the cut block, but it is a result). Of course, that's the exact same purpose of a safety hitting any WR who goes over the middle. Is every safety in the NFL dirty, too? And every LB? And DEs are often taught to use the QB's body to cushion their fall on sacks. Is every DE now dirty? And when an RB lowers his shoulder and initiates contact and talks about making sure the defense feels it, he's obviously talking about getting the defense thinking twice before they tackle him. Are RBs now dirty? Is every single NFL player dirty except for the QBs, now?

Can you honestly say that you think every other franchise injures opponents with cut blocks as often as den does and on plays that are blatantly cheap as Fosters hit on Tony Williams? Or Nalen's "block" on Igor Olshansky last season after DEN had already spiked the ball? Or Herndon's hit on Jamal Williams back in '02? In addition to the Maa Tanuvasa hit mentioned earlier? You think everyone does it and den gets singled out unjustly? Everyone breaks an opponents ankle FROM BEHIND or disloacates another guys ankle 20 yards away from the ball?Was I the only one watching the Foster hit on Tony Williams? Every team does that?

 

[SSOG]

And don't tell me that because Lepsis cuts he's dirty. Let's ignore the fact that every single offensive lineman in the NFL cut blocks for a moment. A side effect of cut blocking is that it gets the other player worried about something other than football, yes (it's not the purpose of the cut block, but it is a result). Of course, that's the exact same purpose of a safety hitting any WR who goes over the middle. Is every safety in the NFL dirty, too? And every LB? And DEs are often taught to use the QB's body to cushion their fall on sacks. Is every DE now dirty? And when an RB lowers his shoulder and initiates contact and talks about making sure the defense feels it, he's obviously talking about getting the defense thinking twice before they tackle him. Are RBs now dirty? Is every single NFL player dirty except for the QBs, now?

Can you honestly say that you think every other franchise injures opponents with cut blocks as often as den does and on plays that are blatantly cheap as Fosters hit on Tony Williams? Or Nalen's "block" on Igor Olshansky last season after DEN had already spiked the ball? Or Herndon's hit on Jamal Williams back in '02? In addition to the Maa Tanuvasa hit mentioned earlier? You think everyone does it and den gets singled out unjustly? Everyone breaks an opponents ankle FROM BEHIND or disloacates another guys ankle 20 yards away from the ball?Was I the only one watching the Foster hit on Tony Williams? Every team does that?

Was I defending Foster's hit on Tony Williams?

 

[falconeyed]

Can we get rid of the "We're the Broncos OL and we don't talk to the media because OL don't draw attention to themselves, although the act of not talking to the media ends up drawing more attention to us than if we just played along like everyone else" shtick now?

 

[rascal]

Can we get rid of the "We're the Broncos OL and we don't talk to the media because OL don't draw attention to themselves, although the act of not talking to the media ends up drawing more attention to us than if we just played along like everyone else" shtick now?

They talk to the media now.

 

[BoltBacker]

And don't tell me that because Lepsis cuts he's dirty. Let's ignore the fact that every single offensive lineman in the NFL cut blocks for a moment. A side effect of cut blocking is that it gets the other player worried about something other than football, yes (it's not the purpose of the cut block, but it is a result). Of course, that's the exact same purpose of a safety hitting any WR who goes over the middle. Is every safety in the NFL dirty, too? And every LB? And DEs are often taught to use the QB's body to cushion their fall on sacks. Is every DE now dirty? And when an RB lowers his shoulder and initiates contact and talks about making sure the defense feels it, he's obviously talking about getting the defense thinking twice before they tackle him. Are RBs now dirty? Is every single NFL player dirty except for the QBs, now?

Can you honestly say that you think every other franchise injures opponents with cut blocks as often as den does and on plays that are blatantly cheap as Fosters hit on Tony Williams? Or Nalen's "block" on Igor Olshansky last season after DEN had already spiked the ball? Or Herndon's hit on Jamal Williams back in '02? In addition to the Maa Tanuvasa hit mentioned earlier? You think everyone does it and den gets singled out unjustly? Everyone breaks an opponents ankle FROM BEHIND or disloacates another guys ankle 20 yards away from the ball?Was I the only one watching the Foster hit on Tony Williams? Every team does that?

Was I defending Foster's hit on Tony Williams?

I was using the den OL tactics as a group that Lepsis belongs to as an example to make my point. The tactics of the den OL isn't commonly seen around the league as you suggest in your post. But for that matter I don't think there's any parallel at all to be drawn between a S hitting a WR across the middle to dislodge the ball if the WR gains possesion. If you think that intimidation is the same as diving at a guy below the knees from behind... then we simply disagree.

 

[rascal]

The big question I have is how this will effect their line going forward. They weren't able to effectively run the ball this year and the once vaunted Denver O-line looks to be going the way of KC over the past two years. Denver's talent is at the TE/WR position so I wonder if the offense will follow.

Denver was 9th in rushing yards and 5th in yards per attempt this season. The reason people think their running game struggled is because (a) they were 18th in attempts (which is hugely uncharacteristic for Denver), and (b) their running game really did struggle in a big way in short yardage. Of course, most short yardage runs are right up the middle, behind where Nalen and Hamilton should have been (but weren't), which is a large part of the explanation for that.

People always say that Shanny doesn't start rookie o-lineman so there is no point in drafting one this year. Well I think Shanny will start whoever is going to do the best job, and frankly I don't have much faith in Harris.

The local papers also seem pretty confident that the Broncos will make a move to shore up the RT spot where Pears struggled significantly during the year.

That KU o-lineman Collins is going to declare today, and I think he would be an excellent LT for the Broncos and could be had in the second round.

You can throw all that out the window IMO. When's the last time the team has had a line this bad and potentially could get worse before it gets better. He'll start the best players regardless. In the past they may have had the luxury/depth to take their time to move guys in but those days are gone.

Denver drafted George Foster in the first round- far and away the highest they have drafted any offensive lineman- and he wound up sitting out an entire season despite the fact that Denver was starting EPHRAIM SALAAM. If a rookie is playing the best I agree that he'll get the start, but I don't think any of the rookies outside of Long are talented enough to overcome the problems they're going to inevitably have with the scheme. The thing about the ZBS is that you're better served by 5 bad players who play together in tandem than by 5 good players who don't.

Ephraim Salaam is starting for a NFL team. Can't say the same for George Foster.

Doesn't change the fact that George Foster demonstrates two things- first round tackles are far from a sure thing (Robert Gallery and Mike Williams, anyone?), and rookies don't start no matter how much the team has invested in them. If Foster couldn't crack the starting lineup when he was a first rounder and Salaam was starting, I think any rookie is going to be hard pressed to do it. They'll need to be a Marcus McNeill/Joe Thomas, and I think it's unlikely that Denver winds up with one of those.

That wasn't your point. I never said that first round tackles are a sure thing nor did I saw that rookies start no matter what.If George Foster had at any point in his career been better than Ephraim Salaam your argument would have merit, but as it is Foster is a complete bust. If Foster had at any point been a good OT then I could understand, but IMO he isn't (and being benched by the Lions is concrete proof of that). If he had been a good OT then maybe he would have started his first year over an average Ephraim Salaam.

Not to mention the fact that Harris missed a large portion of this season, has had major back surgery two consecutive years, and was thoroughly disappointing his senior year (enough to drop from a first/second round talent his junior year to a fourth round talent his senior year). How can you honestly say that you are comfortable enough with him at LT when this draft offers some of the best OT talent in one single draft that the NFL has ever seen?

 

[rascal]

And don't tell me that because Lepsis cuts he's dirty. Let's ignore the fact that every single offensive lineman in the NFL cut blocks for a moment. A side effect of cut blocking is that it gets the other player worried about something other than football, yes (it's not the purpose of the cut block, but it is a result). Of course, that's the exact same purpose of a safety hitting any WR who goes over the middle. Is every safety in the NFL dirty, too? And every LB? And DEs are often taught to use the QB's body to cushion their fall on sacks. Is every DE now dirty? And when an RB lowers his shoulder and initiates contact and talks about making sure the defense feels it, he's obviously talking about getting the defense thinking twice before they tackle him. Are RBs now dirty? Is every single NFL player dirty except for the QBs, now?

Can you honestly say that you think every other franchise injures opponents with cut blocks as often as den does and on plays that are blatantly cheap as Fosters hit on Tony Williams? Or Nalen's "block" on Igor Olshansky last season after DEN had already spiked the ball? Or Herndon's hit on Jamal Williams back in '02? In addition to the Maa Tanuvasa hit mentioned earlier? You think everyone does it and den gets singled out unjustly? Everyone breaks an opponents ankle FROM BEHIND or disloacates another guys ankle 20 yards away from the ball?Was I the only one watching the Foster hit on Tony Williams? Every team does that?

Was I defending Foster's hit on Tony Williams?

I was using the den OL tactics as a group that Lepsis belongs to as an example to make my point. The tactics of the den OL isn't commonly seen around the league as you suggest in your post. But for that matter I don't think there's any parallel at all to be drawn between a S hitting a WR across the middle to dislodge the ball if the WR gains possesion. If you think that intimidation is the same as diving at a guy below the knees from behind... then we simply disagree.

Bah...go talk to Cowher.

 

[SSOG]

I was using the den OL tactics as a group that Lepsis belongs to as an example to make my point. The tactics of the den OL isn't commonly seen around the league as you suggest in your post.

Every single offensive lineman in the entire NFL has cut block at some point during his career. That is a simple, inarguable fact of life. Every single one, without exception and without fail, pretty much since the beginning of time. Everyone from Anthony Munoz down to Robert Gallery. So is every single offensive lineman dirty? Or do you have to do it a certain percentage of the time before it becomes dirty? Is it clean if you do it 10% of the time, but dirty if you do it 15%? Inquiring minds want to know.Also, if safeties are only leveling those hard hits at WRs going over the middle in an effort to dislodge the ball, then why are they always talking about "patrolling" the middle of the field and making a WR think twice before going over the middle? Laying wood is an INTIMIDATION factor, plain and simple. It is a vicious hit designed to do absolutely nothing but cause the maximum amount of pain so that the next time the WR goes over the middle, he's busy thinking about the hit and not the ball (leading to alligator arms or what I like to call "a case of the Massaquois"). I mean, at least cut blocking is a sound, fundamental football tactic that actually provides an advantage on the play in question. Laying wood is actually inferior to a simple form tackle when it comes to ending the current play in the most positive manner possible (form tackles are far less likely to be broken, and while a big hit can force an incompletion, a simple stand-up-and-strip move is more likely to result in a turnover). Either way, both tactics result in the other player worrying about injury and not playing at full effectiveness. So do a lot of D-line pass-rushing tactics (such as the aforementioned "cushion your fall with the opposing QB's body" one).

 

[BoltBacker]

I mean, at least cut blocking is a sound, fundamental football tactic that actually provides an advantage on the play in question.

Then why was he fined $15k?

 

[SSOG]

I mean, at least cut blocking is a sound, fundamental football tactic that actually provides an advantage on the play in question.

Then why was he fined $15k?

First off, a fine levied against Matt Lepsis has nothing to do with whether the cut block is a fundamental football tactic. Lepsis had an illegal block on Tanavasu and was fined. That doesn't mean that cut blocking isn't a football fundamental taught to every lineman all the way down to the Pop Warner level, and it also doesn't mean that cut blocking doesn't provide an advantage on the play currently being run. So once again, I question the link between the passage you quoted and the fine of Lepsis.Second off, Lepsis, as best as I can tell, has been fined twice in his career. If you're going to call him a dirty player off of the basis of two plays, then I suppose that's your prerogative, but I certainly think it's a bit silly.Third off, I notice you ignored the crux of my argument. If cut blocking is so dirty, is every lineman who has ever played in the NFL a dirty player? Or does a player have to cross a certain "cut blocking threshold" and do it on a certain percentage of their snaps before it's dirty? And why is cut blocking dirty, while vicious hits over the middle (which have the exact same fear-of-injury effect and NONE of the sound football fundamentals otherwise recommending them) are a celebrated and accepted part of the game that you go so far as to defend and justify?

 

[Borat]

Matt Lepsis was probably one of the top 3 LTs in the league over the past 5 years, but he never got a single pro bowl selection.

He was a good player, but one of the top 3 LTs in the league?

 

[rascal]

I mean, at least cut blocking is a sound, fundamental football tactic that actually provides an advantage on the play in question.

Then why was he fined $15k?

Watching the game and I just saw a charger lineman penalized for a chop block. Care to explain that? I thought only Denver did that?

 

[rascal]

Matt Lepsis was probably one of the top 3 LTs in the league over the past 5 years, but he never got a single pro bowl selection.

He was a good player, but one of the top 3 LTs in the league?

Sweeney Todd says to shut up.

 

[SSOG]

Matt Lepsis was probably one of the top 3 LTs in the league over the past 5 years, but he never got a single pro bowl selection.

He was a good player, but one of the top 3 LTs in the league?

One of the top 3 in media exposure? Nope. One of the top 3 on the field? I'd take him over anyone except Jones and Pace over that span (and recently I've been questioning how much of Jones' performance was attributable to having Hutchinson right next to him, because he has *NOT* been the same player since Hutch left).

 

[BoltBacker]

I mean, at least cut blocking is a sound, fundamental football tactic that actually provides an advantage on the play in question.

Then why was he fined $15k?

First off, a fine levied against Matt Lepsis has nothing to do with whether the cut block is a fundamental football tactic. Lepsis had an illegal block on Tanavasu and was fined. That doesn't mean that cut blocking isn't a football fundamental taught to every lineman all the way down to the Pop Warner level, and it also doesn't mean that cut blocking doesn't provide an advantage on the play currently being run. So once again, I question the link between the passage you quoted and the fine of Lepsis.Second off, Lepsis, as best as I can tell, has been fined twice in his career. If you're going to call him a dirty player off of the basis of two plays, then I suppose that's your prerogative, but I certainly think it's a bit silly.Third off, I notice you ignored the crux of my argument. If cut blocking is so dirty, is every lineman who has ever played in the NFL a dirty player? Or does a player have to cross a certain "cut blocking threshold" and do it on a certain percentage of their snaps before it's dirty? And why is cut blocking dirty, while vicious hits over the middle (which have the exact same fear-of-injury effect and NONE of the sound football fundamentals otherwise recommending them) are a celebrated and accepted part of the game that you go so far as to defend and justify?

Well, if every blocker in the NFL does the same thing do they all get fined multiple times for it? What % of NFL lineman have gotten fined more for their cut blocks and if it's less than 10% why is Lepsis in the top 10%? If you were to make a generalization about the guys in that top 10% of most fined OLman what would that generalization be?The crux of your argument is that a S hitting a WR over the middle is intimidating and hitting a DLman FROM BEHIND AT HIS KNEES is also intimidating so let's just lump them altogether. That in my opinion is what's silly and I don't know how many other ways to explain to you I don't see any correlation between the two. It's absurd to the point you may as well be saying murders on breaking the law and speeders are breaking the law so they are both criminals.

 

[BoltBacker]

I mean, at least cut blocking is a sound, fundamental football tactic that actually provides an advantage on the play in question.

Then why was he fined $15k?

Watching the game and I just saw a charger lineman penalized for a chop block. Care to explain that? I thought only Denver did that?

I've watched it on replay and I'm still trying to see if it was a block from behind and whether or not he ended the defensive players season because the defensive player was defenseless at the time. Nope. At least his block took place while the play was actually going on... unlike the Nalen "block". I'm willing to wager the Dielman block won't be fined... how much would you like to wager?I don't really care den fans... if you want to lionize all these dirty lineman that's fine. If you want to find a single team that has as many examples of dirty hits as I've posted here by den OLman in the past five years then do so. Otherwise, just keep trying to convince yourself "Well, everyone else is doing it... we're just getting singled out!". That's fine.