Matt Ryan vs. Mark Sanchez (1 Viewer)

[Eminence]

Matt Ryan

4,177 Yards / 29 TD / 12 INT

347 Completions on 566 Attempts

61.3% / 12.0 YPC

84 Rushing Yards / 2 TD

Mark Sanchez

3,474 Yards / 26 TD / 18 INT

308 Completions on 543 Attempts

56.7% / 11.2 YPC

103 Rushing Yards / 6TD

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Why is everyone downgrading Sanchez?

1.) The team gave him a 3 - year contract extension.

2.) The team used a 4th Rounder on a backup.

3.) The team drafted a WR with its 2nd Pick.

4.) He's coming off a career year.

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If you look at the stats, Sanchez actually scored more TD than Ryan did. 31 to 32 and only threw for about 700 less yards which equated over a 16 game schedule...

43 yards less per game.

To get Sanchez over 4,000 passing yards using last years numbers he would have to:

A.) Increase his YPC to 12.9, a 2 yard increase.

B.) Increase his completion percentage to 65%.

C.) A combination of A + B.

As a former 1st Round pick, do you believe he can improve? What if he had White, Jones and Gonzalez to throw to?

I'm not advising anyone to draft Sanchez as your starting QB this year but this is the case of a young Quarterback being scrutinized by the NY media and Tebow craze.

He presents value, redraft and dynasty.

For comparisons sake, here is Eli Manning's stats as a 3rd Year starter:

Eli Manning

3,336 Yards / 23 TD / 20 INT

297 Completions on 529 Attempts

56.1% / 11.2 YPC

69 Rushing Yards / 1 TD

Quarterbacks can improve, haha.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

New York isn't going to stop being New York. Meanwhile, Atlanta kept Bobby Cox around for eleventy-two years.

 

[whatadai]

The reason he's even had decent stats is because the Jets have been coddling him like a ####en baby. On the other hand, Matt Ryan can run a no huddle offense with ease. Sanchez is an immature baby and lacks team leading skills and Ryan turned the Falcons around and took that team by the reins.

They're QBs, not RBs. Just because his teammates worked to get him to the 1 yard line and he was able to sneak it in six times doesn't make him a better QB. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were plenty of red zone opportunities that Sanchez screwed up where Tebow could have easily trucked in. So if you're looking for a QB with RB skills, Tebow is much better. Sanchez on the other hand is a QB without any skills.

The team gave him a 3 year contract because they went after Manning, lost, and Sanchez again cried like a baby. So to shut him the #### up they gave him too much money...why? Because they're the Jets and they're usually run by a bunch of eggplants.

So what if they used a 4th rounder to get Tebow? If you could use a 4th round pick to get a 1st round pick, which he originally was, you'd do it too.

The team drafted a WR with its second pick because they had #### across from Santonio Holmes.

Career year? Just because I take one small #### and then make a larger pile of #### the next day doesn't make me a better ####ter. How much longer did I take to take the larger ####? Did a laxative help me take the larger #### or was it all my work? Is my #### that large compared to other peoples' ####s? Etc. Sorry for the #### analogy...when I hear Mark Sanchez's name...it's all I can think of for some unknown reason.

A 2 yard increase on yards per completion is a lot, especially for a guy who's always sucked at big plays to drive the ball down the field. An increase to 65% completion is a lot...especially for a ####ty QB like Sanchez who hasn't even broken 60%. He can't improve cause he just sucks and doesn't have the ability to read defenses or run a complicated offense. He's had plenty of good WRs to throw to, he just sucks ###. Santonio Holmes has done nothing since becoming a Jet and that is all Sanchez's fault. The guy is ####en blind.

He was cocky coming out...why he came out early and wanted his big bucks. Carroll also said he wasn't ready then. Can he improve like Manning did? Possibly, but the guy is so immature I don't think he ever will, while Eli worked his ### off every off-season. This is coming from a guy who has and still does not like Eli Manning and loved Sanchez at USC.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Sanchez isn't as bad as they say... but hes not that good either. He could still improve.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Sanchez isn't as bad as they say... but hes not that good either. He could still improve.

That and I personally think Ryan isn't as good as everyone gives him credit for. I don't think Matty Ice is all that. He's a pretty good Qb but I wouldn't go any farther than that right now and I wouldn't spend too much time on trying to defend Sanchez to Ryan or the other way around because they both need to take the next step.

 

[BoltBacker]

Why is everyone downgrading Sanchez?

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.

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He's coming off a career year.

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If you look at the stats, Sanchez actually scored more TD than Ryan did. 31 to 32 and only threw for about 700 less yards which equated over a 16 game schedule...

43 yards less per game.

Two questions:- How much would you be willing to gamble that Sanchez scores 6 or more rushing TD's in 2012?

- Tarvaris Jackson threw for 11 yards less per game than Sanchez did(in his career year) and not only didn't Jackson have White/Jones/Gonzales as targets but he didn't even have Keller/Holmes/Burres to throw to. How much worse is Jackson than Sanchez?

 

[JPeso]

Less about numbers, more about leadership. I want someone that's not going to hide behind the bunker.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The reason he's even had decent stats is because the Jets have been coddling him like a ####en baby. On the other hand, Matt Ryan can run a no huddle offense with ease. Sanchez is an immature baby and lacks team leading skills and Ryan turned the Falcons around and took that team by the reins.

They're QBs, not RBs. Just because his teammates worked to get him to the 1 yard line and he was able to sneak it in six times doesn't make him a better QB. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were plenty of red zone opportunities that Sanchez screwed up where Tebow could have easily trucked in. So if you're looking for a QB with RB skills, Tebow is much better. Sanchez on the other hand is a QB without any skills.

The team gave him a 3 year contract because they went after Manning, lost, and Sanchez again cried like a baby. So to shut him the #### up they gave him too much money...why? Because they're the Jets and they're usually run by a bunch of eggplants.

So what if they used a 4th rounder to get Tebow? If you could use a 4th round pick to get a 1st round pick, which he originally was, you'd do it too.

The team drafted a WR with its second pick because they had #### across from Santonio Holmes.

Career year? Just because I take one small #### and then make a larger pile of #### the next day doesn't make me a better ####ter. How much longer did I take to take the larger ####? Did a laxative help me take the larger #### or was it all my work? Is my #### that large compared to other peoples' ####s? Etc. Sorry for the #### analogy...when I hear Mark Sanchez's name...it's all I can think of for some unknown reason.

A 2 yard increase on yards per completion is a lot, especially for a guy who's always sucked at big plays to drive the ball down the field. An increase to 65% completion is a lot...especially for a ####ty QB like Sanchez who hasn't even broken 60%. He can't improve cause he just sucks and doesn't have the ability to read defenses or run a complicated offense. He's had plenty of good WRs to throw to, he just sucks ###. Santonio Holmes has done nothing since becoming a Jet and that is all Sanchez's fault. The guy is ####en blind.

He was cocky coming out...why he came out early and wanted his big bucks. Carroll also said he wasn't ready then. Can he improve like Manning did? Possibly, but the guy is so immature I don't think he ever will, while Eli worked his ### off every off-season. This is coming from a guy who has and still does not like Eli Manning and loved Sanchez at USC.

The bolded is pretty much the only accurate statement in that long and irate post.

 

[DoubleG]

First off, the OP left out a few important stats (undoubtedly because they didn't fit his point):

Fumbles:

Sanchez 10 (lost 9)

Ryan 5 (lost 3)

While the OP was quick to point out that Sanchez had more total TDs than Ryan last year, Sanchez not only had a career year in terms of TDs (32 total TDs. The most he had ever accounted for prior to last season was 20) and rushing TDs (6 compared to 6 total the previous seasons combined) - Sanchez also turned the ball over 26 times last season - compared to Ryan's 15. Which might be part of the reason that the Jets brought in Tebow. Regardless as to what some view as Tebow's flaws, he has a low INT% and doesn't fumble a great deal for someone who carries the ball as often as he does.

If you look only at the first 3 years of each of their careers (so we don't give Ryan an undue advantage for an extra season):

TD/Int:

Sanchez: 55-51

Ryan : 66-34

QB Rating:

Sanchez: 73.20

Ryan: 86.90

Suffice it to say that Ryan is simply a better passer who protects the ball better. So I think the comparison is extremely weak. Weaker still when you consider that you are likely comparing what might be Sanchez' best season of his career - and an outlier.

 

[Matt Bitonti]

The team gave him a 3 year contract because they went after Manning, lost, and Sanchez again cried like a baby. So to shut him the #### up they gave him too much money...why? Because they're the Jets and they're usually run by a bunch of eggplants.

to be clear, the reason why Sanchez got an extension is because the team was in cap trouble and the only contract they could restructure and get any relief at all was Mark's old-CBA rookie deal. If they let Mark play out this year, they wouldn't have even been able to resign Sione Pouha.

 

[whatadai]

The reason he's even had decent stats is because the Jets have been coddling him like a ####en baby. On the other hand, Matt Ryan can run a no huddle offense with ease. Sanchez is an immature baby and lacks team leading skills and Ryan turned the Falcons around and took that team by the reins.

They're QBs, not RBs. Just because his teammates worked to get him to the 1 yard line and he was able to sneak it in six times doesn't make him a better QB. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were plenty of red zone opportunities that Sanchez screwed up where Tebow could have easily trucked in. So if you're looking for a QB with RB skills, Tebow is much better. Sanchez on the other hand is a QB without any skills.

The team gave him a 3 year contract because they went after Manning, lost, and Sanchez again cried like a baby. So to shut him the #### up they gave him too much money...why? Because they're the Jets and they're usually run by a bunch of eggplants.

So what if they used a 4th rounder to get Tebow? If you could use a 4th round pick to get a 1st round pick, which he originally was, you'd do it too.

The team drafted a WR with its second pick because they had #### across from Santonio Holmes.

Career year? Just because I take one small #### and then make a larger pile of #### the next day doesn't make me a better ####ter. How much longer did I take to take the larger ####? Did a laxative help me take the larger #### or was it all my work? Is my #### that large compared to other peoples' ####s? Etc. Sorry for the #### analogy...when I hear Mark Sanchez's name...it's all I can think of for some unknown reason.

A 2 yard increase on yards per completion is a lot, especially for a guy who's always sucked at big plays to drive the ball down the field. An increase to 65% completion is a lot...especially for a ####ty QB like Sanchez who hasn't even broken 60%. He can't improve cause he just sucks and doesn't have the ability to read defenses or run a complicated offense. He's had plenty of good WRs to throw to, he just sucks ###. Santonio Holmes has done nothing since becoming a Jet and that is all Sanchez's fault. The guy is ####en blind.

He was cocky coming out...why he came out early and wanted his big bucks. Carroll also said he wasn't ready then. Can he improve like Manning did? Possibly, but the guy is so immature I don't think he ever will, while Eli worked his ### off every off-season. This is coming from a guy who has and still does not like Eli Manning and loved Sanchez at USC.

The bolded is pretty much the only accurate statement in that long and irate post.

Looks like someone drafted Sanchez in the first round of a rookie draft.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Sanchez was 9th in TD passes, but 25th in INT percentage, 27th in yards per attempt, and 28th in completion percentage. You might as well say that Sanchez is faster than Peyton Manning, has a stronger arm than Joe Montana, and is more accurate than Chris Johnson. Because that's about as relevant as looking at his number of TD passes is.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The reason he's even had decent stats is because the Jets have been coddling him like a ####en baby. On the other hand, Matt Ryan can run a no huddle offense with ease. Sanchez is an immature baby and lacks team leading skills and Ryan turned the Falcons around and took that team by the reins.

They're QBs, not RBs. Just because his teammates worked to get him to the 1 yard line and he was able to sneak it in six times doesn't make him a better QB. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were plenty of red zone opportunities that Sanchez screwed up where Tebow could have easily trucked in. So if you're looking for a QB with RB skills, Tebow is much better. Sanchez on the other hand is a QB without any skills.

The team gave him a 3 year contract because they went after Manning, lost, and Sanchez again cried like a baby. So to shut him the #### up they gave him too much money...why? Because they're the Jets and they're usually run by a bunch of eggplants.

So what if they used a 4th rounder to get Tebow? If you could use a 4th round pick to get a 1st round pick, which he originally was, you'd do it too.

The team drafted a WR with its second pick because they had #### across from Santonio Holmes.

Career year? Just because I take one small #### and then make a larger pile of #### the next day doesn't make me a better ####ter. How much longer did I take to take the larger ####? Did a laxative help me take the larger #### or was it all my work? Is my #### that large compared to other peoples' ####s? Etc. Sorry for the #### analogy...when I hear Mark Sanchez's name...it's all I can think of for some unknown reason.

A 2 yard increase on yards per completion is a lot, especially for a guy who's always sucked at big plays to drive the ball down the field. An increase to 65% completion is a lot...especially for a ####ty QB like Sanchez who hasn't even broken 60%. He can't improve cause he just sucks and doesn't have the ability to read defenses or run a complicated offense. He's had plenty of good WRs to throw to, he just sucks ###. Santonio Holmes has done nothing since becoming a Jet and that is all Sanchez's fault. The guy is ####en blind.

He was cocky coming out...why he came out early and wanted his big bucks. Carroll also said he wasn't ready then. Can he improve like Manning did? Possibly, but the guy is so immature I don't think he ever will, while Eli worked his ### off every off-season. This is coming from a guy who has and still does not like Eli Manning and loved Sanchez at USC.

The bolded is pretty much the only accurate statement in that long and irate post.

Looks like someone drafted Sanchez in the first round of a rookie draft.

This wasn't really a fantasy football topic.

Just wondering if you could support any of the claims you made. I'm guessing, not.

 

[gandalas]

Here is a repeat of an exchange between myself and David Yudkin earlier this season about my views on Sanchez. I actually got the fumble numbers wrong - I was only looking at Passing fumbles, not rushing fumbles. However, that makes my argument even stronger.

NY Jets - Sanchez / Tebow? What a headache. Got to think that neither will be a top-20 option, and thus should not be considered except in 2-QB leagues.

I'm not sure why people are thinking this (and I suppose that's better for the rest of us). Sanchez ranked as QB10 last year. Tebow has also shown he can put up Top 10 numbers. This tells me that the Jets will most likely be fielding a Top 10 fantasy QB NO MATTER WHICH GUY IS STARTING (or at least a borderline QB1). Both Sanchez and Tebow have ADPs around QB30 and are getting drafted in the 200+ range in drafts. At that point, draft both with two very late picks as your backups and feel comfortable with having a decent fantasy backup available no matter which guy starts. The Jets did nothing to improve their running game, so they may also have to rely on the pass more.

Sanchez actually did a LOT better than I thought he did last year (3474 yards, 26 TD/18 Int, 4 Fumble). (should have been 10 fumbles, 8 lost) Still, he was #26 in the NFL in Yards/Completion at 6.4 (tied with Tebow, Ponder, and Cassel!), #22 in yards per game, and #5 in interceptions thrown. He was the #11 QB in my main league, but that was more on a basis of 543 attempts, or the 9th highest total in the league.

I just don't think he is that good. Plus he has Tebow that will eat into some of those passing attempts this season? I just do not see him ranking that high again, barring a spectacular increase in his passer efficiency rating (78.2, or #23 last year). A LOT of his value was built on that high number of TDs thrown, of which Plaxico Burress had a healthy number. Will Stephen Hill be able to make up those missing Red Zone numbers that Burress got last season? We shall see.

I just do not see any way that he repeats his top-15 finish this season. I could be wrong, but I just don't see it.

EDIT: I just saw that Sanchez also had 6 rushing TDs last year, which seems high to me for the small amount of yards he rushed for. Can you count on those 36 extra points again this year as well? I certainly think that if ANY QB on the Jets is going to be taking those 3rd and short on the goal lines this season, it will certainly not be Sanchez.

 

[DoubleG]

Sanchez was 9th in TD passes, but 25th in INT percentage, 27th in yards per attempt, and 28th in completion percentage. You might as well say that Sanchez is faster than Peyton Manning, has a stronger arm than Joe Montana, and is more accurate than Chris Johnson. Because that's about as relevant as looking at his number of TD passes is.

He's a bottom feeder of an NFL starter in terms of his overall contributions to his team - especially when you account for the number of times he gives the ball to the opposing team.

 

[FF Ninja]

Sanchez threw 8 TDs from inside the 5 yard line and rushed for 6 last year while they only had 3 RB rushing TD inside the 5. With the combination of a new OC and Tebow, I think the goal line opportunities will be handled differently. I think two situations are likely: they'll either hand it off more to the bowling ball RB or they'll let Tebow do his thing. Either way, Sanchez's TD production is going to be hurt. The rest of his game is not strong enough to offset that.

I would also like to note that Matt Ryan is a mediocre QB at best who has been allowed to throw the ball a LOT. So you won't hear any argument here against him being overvalued, but just because he's overvalued doesn't mean Sanchez is undervalued. Avoid both. Draft Big Ben. He'll be money this year.

 

[Eminence]

First off, the OP left out a few important stats (undoubtedly because they didn't fit his point):Fumbles:Sanchez 10 (lost 9)Ryan 5 (lost 3)While the OP was quick to point out that Sanchez had more total TDs than Ryan last year, Sanchez not only had a career year in terms of TDs (32 total TDs. The most he had ever accounted for prior to last season was 20) and rushing TDs (6 compared to 6 total the previous seasons combined) - Sanchez also turned the ball over 26 times last season - compared to Ryan's 15. Which might be part of the reason that the Jets brought in Tebow. Regardless as to what some view as Tebow's flaws, he has a low INT% and doesn't fumble a great deal for someone who carries the ball as often as he does.If you look only at the first 3 years of each of their careers (so we don't give Ryan an undue advantage for an extra season):TD/Int:Sanchez: 55-51Ryan : 66-34QB Rating:Sanchez: 73.20Ryan: 86.90Suffice it to say that Ryan is simply a better passer who protects the ball better. So I think the comparison is extremely weak. Weaker still when you consider that you are likely comparing what might be Sanchez' best season of his career - and an outlier.

No, I just don't think fumbles are extremely relevant for Sanchez's future production. Eli Manning has had two years where he fumbled 13 times. He fumbled 8 last year. Sanchez's career rushing TD average is 4 per season, with 100 yards to boot.The thread title is misleading, I'm suggesting that Sanchez could improve in time to a player like Ryan / Manning. If you want to make fun of me for that, go ahead. He's a dirt cheap buy for someone who threw for 26 TD last year.Ryan was clearly put in a different situation than Sanchez! Players take different time to develop. The point of this thread is to show Sanchez has put up alright numbers and if you think last year was his career year and he WILL NOT improve the rest of his career or his situation WILL NOT improve, that is plain silly.What if Hill develops into a Pro Bowl receiver, Holmes continues his career arc, Sanchez improves, and coach let's him have more freedom in plays? He can't score 4 more passing TD? He can't throw for 500 more yards?The guy screams value.We've seen young QBs develop before, he is going to be pushed by Tebow-mania. If there was a gamble I'm willing to take, this is it. Low risk, recent reward. A guy I'd love as my QB3, a guy I took as my QB4 in Dynasty behind Flynn, RG3, and Stafford.If he can put together a year of 3,500 / 30TD at some point. I will be extremely happy with what I paid for him. Late, late, late rounder.

 

[DoubleG]

The thread title is misleading, I'm suggesting that Sanchez could improve in time to a player like Ryan / Manning. If you want to make fun of me for that, go ahead. He's a dirt cheap buy for someone who threw for 26 TD last year.

I agree with that - but there is also a reason he is dirt cheap. First off, most leagues deduct points for turnovers. As such, even with his career year (your words, not mine) - he is not a QB1. He would have been a decent QB2...last year. Secondly, no one is making fun of you, just pointing out the flaws in your argument - don't take it personally.

Ryan was clearly put in a different situation than Sanchez! Players take different time to develop. The point of this thread is to show Sanchez has put up alright numbers and if you think last year was his career year and he WILL NOT improve the rest of his career or his situation WILL NOT improve, that is plain silly.

Almost as silly as presuming that he will definately improve. Even though the team is changing offensive schemes and just brought in a QB who, by almost every measurable passing stat is a better passer to this point in his career (save for completion %), is a better passer. And doesn't turn the ball over as much. And will likely steal some of thos goal line touches and some of those redzone TDs. And yet we should somehow expect improvement out of Sanchez' numbers? Really?

What if Hill develops into a Pro Bowl receiver, Holmes continues his career arc, Sanchez improves, and coach let's him have more freedom in plays? He can't score 4 more passing TD? He can't throw for 500 more yards?

Yes, and the same could happen to Tarvaris Jackson. Or Sanchez could struggle, Tebow could replace him by the bye week and Sanchez could become David Garrard part deux - a nice backup QB with occasional QB2-like numbers.

The guy screams value.

There's a reason he's buy-low - because no one wants him.

We've seen young QBs develop before, he is going to be pushed by Tebow-mania.

You're failing to realize two things:1) Sanchez has a history of responding poorly to pressure - not positively.

2) Sanchez could indeed be pushed by Tebow...right to the bench.

I do find it interesting that you assume that Sanchez will definatley improve, but Tebow (who has better passing numbers than Sanchez in almost every category except compl.%) will somehow not get any better nor threaten his numbers in any way, shape or form.

If there was a gamble I'm willing to take, this is it. Low risk, recent reward. A guy I'd love as my QB3, a guy I took as my QB4 in Dynasty behind Flynn, RG3, and Stafford.

Well, at least we understand the reason for thread now. And the defense of Sanchez even in light of facts.Look, I owned Sanchez in dynasty. He still sits on the WW in my dynatsy league. And I am not wasting a roster spot on him - nor has anyone else. Could we all be wrong? Sure. But I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't make it near your 30 TD prediction - and does not finish as a top 15 QB either. Not in 2012, or anytime thereafter.

 

[Modog814]

Sanchez isn't as bad as they say... but hes not that good either. He could still improve.

That and I personally think Ryan isn't as good as everyone gives him credit for. I don't think Matty Ice is all that. He's a pretty good Qb but I wouldn't go any farther than that right now and I wouldn't spend too much time on trying to defend Sanchez to Ryan or the other way around because they both need to take the next step.

Perhaps instead of asking why is everyone downgrading Sanchez, you should be asking why is everyone so high on Ryan...That said, 43 yards per game is a pretty significant amount. It amounts to throwing for 20% more yards for Sanchez. Not sure why you don't think that's such a big obstacle to over come. Also the 6 Rushing TD's is more likely an outlier than a norm. In my opinion Sanchez has the physical tools to be successful, and he (at times) seems to have the leadership ability. Where I think he fails is the ability to read the defense and make quality decisions with the ball. He's fine if the first read is open, but when he's got to move on thats where he struggles.

 

[Sweet Love]

Less about numbers, more about leadership. I want someone that's not going to hide behind the bunker.

Well put...plus, and this is hard to quantify, but Sanchez just does "dumb stuff" when pressured, which I have not seen with Ryan. For example, if Matt Ryan makes a bad play by tossing the ball into traffic when the odds are short against a completion, he is doing it the "right way" by shooting for a first down or sending the ball where there is a chance. Sanchez, on the other hand, will drill the ball into his WR3, three yards short of a first down, with two people covering him, or refuse to take a sack and toss the ball while his body is parallel to the field after being tackled and watch it trickle three yards behind him. Beyond the numbers, Ryan is just a headier QB...lets put it this way, if Ryan is on the Jets in 2009 and 2010, do you think they get to the SB at least once? I do, and I am a Jets fan who happens not to be calling for Sanchez's head on a stake.

 

[wazoo11]