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McGinest unceremoniously whacked (1 Viewer)

GRIDIRON ASSASSIN

Footballguy
The Boston Globe reports only minutes after the NFL's owners voted 30-2 to extend the collective bargaining agreement six years, the Patriots ended their 12-year agreement with all-time postseason sack leader LB Willie McGinest, according to one NFL personnel director last night. Although the Patriots were not struggling to get under the new cap figure of $102 million, McGinest carried a prohibitive salary cap figure of more than $7 million for next season, a number he told the Globe a week ago he felt would surely result in him becoming a free agent unless the team chose to rework his deal.

Although the Patriots reportedly remain hopeful of signing McGinest, league sources said last night that the Cleveland Browns, San Diego Chargers, Dallas Cowboys, and several other teams intend to explore signing McGinest, who last year became the all-time postseason sack leader (16), passing Hall of Famer Reggie White (12) and Bruce Smith (14 1/2).

 

nerangers

Footballguy
complete Article...was just getting ready to post this:

Patriots cut ties with McGinest

The Boston Globe's Ron Borges and Jerome Solomon report that the Patriots have ended their 12-year relationship with outside linebacker Willie McGinest. The decision was based on a high salary cap figure.

 
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Workhorse

Footballguy
I'd say this improves the Pats chances to re-sign Vinatieri and Givens. They were already under the old cap. Releasing McGinest (and his nearly $7 mil cap hit) might make the Patriots a serious free agent player this weekend.

 

-OZ-

Footballguy
I'd say this improves the Pats chances to re-sign Vinatieri and Givens. They were already under the old cap. Releasing McGinest (and his nearly $7 mil cap hit) might make the Patriots a serious free agent player this weekend.
Good point.Write NE in for a OLB in the 1st or 2nd rounds.

 

Boston

Footballguy
Unfortunately this isn't a surprise although I hoped it could be avoided. His cap mumber is just too high.

Willie has been a big time warrior for the Pats. On the field he's a major part of their defense. He has the ability to line up as a LB or as a DE. He can rush the passer, stop the run and cover from either position. He's one of the guys who really allows BB to mask his defense since you just don't know what Willie will do. His big play abilities are second to none as well. Also, he's one of the leaders on the team and is given much credit for setting the tone in the lockerroom. It's funny because during the Carroll years he always appeared to be hurt or underachieving but he's been nothing short of excellent during the new regime. Whether he stays or goes he'll always be one of my favorites.

So, what happens here?

*Willie may simply resign with the Pats. Everyone knew this release was going to happen so it is not a surprise. He's still a major part of the Pats defense so this isn't simply letting an older player walk. Right now Willie is playing as well as he ever has. Also, the Pats have nothing currently on their roster to replace him. It also appears resigning with the Pats is his #1 choice.

*Another team steps up and offers Willie big money. While it's usually unwise to offer a player of Willie's age big money he is an exception. His combination of topnotch play, verstatility, size and awesome leadership makes him pretty desirable IMO. He could be a tremendous veteran presence for a rebuilding team like Cleveland. He could reunite with Tuna and hit the ground running. He could also be a "missing piece" type of player for the Chargers. Remember Willie is a SoCal guy so the Chargers could be a fit. Ay team that runs a 3-4 will probably sniff around here.

*I'm not sure how Willie will make his decision. Money is always a factor but he has done extremely well in his business ventures and has made nice cash during his 12 year career.

*If the Pats don't resign Willie I fully expect a signing similar to Colvin's to come out of leftfield. There is no way the Pats can let Willie go without a plan B. I also don't believe they will simply use their #21 pick on a LB and expect him to step right in. BB has only drafted two LBs in his tenure and none before the fifth round. I wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a LB early but I don't see them having that guy already penciled in for 06. The Pats D is complicated and that's just too much to expect. My guess is if Willie doesn't comeback a guy like Julian Peterson could come out of leftfield for the Pats. They operate very secretively and always have a plan. Willie is not walking unless something else is brewing.

*Willie's release and the new cap gives the Pats a ton of flexibilty. Like 2002 expect them to be big players this offseason. Yet, I still think Givens is long gone. He will get a solid offer that the Pats won't match. They have other holes to fill (like LB if Willie is gone) that they value more. Also, they are most likely going to give big money to only one WR and that's probably going to be Branch. They will not sign both Givens and Branch to big deals. As for AV that's still a question mark. I still feel he knows he has a big time offer coming and that's where he's headed. He seems very confident going into free agency and had zero problem turning the Pats offer done.

This should get very interesting...

 

Bri

Footballguy
good posting Boston

I hope this is a cut and re-sign thing. I'm pretty confident it is. Feels like Troy Brown last year.

 

Boston

Footballguy
good posting Boston

I hope this is a cut and re-sign thing. I'm pretty confident it is. Feels like Troy Brown last year.
Unfortunately there's a big difference. While both guys are Patriot icons Troy's play is not what it used to be. Here's nearing the end of his career, wasn't going to make big money and basically decided to wrap things up with the Pats. It's a classic case of ending the career in the place you know and love. Willie on the otherhand is still playing at a big time level. He will probably have plenty of suitors and could get a good offer which is very different than what happened with Troy who's only interest outside of the Pats last year came from the Saints. Again, my guess is they have already made a decision on him. What it is I have no clue but it's just too important of a position in the Pats scheme to have as a question mark.

 
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Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
As long as the Pats have Brady they'll be a contender but age is starting to show. Belichick still has a young D-line and O-line but elsewhere has some issues. Their list of Super Bowl contributors that is 30+ or a free agent is growing.

30+

Troy Brown 35

Christian Fauria 34

Ty Poole 34

Tedy Bruschi 33

Rodney Harrison 33

Corey Dillon 31

Mike Vrabel 31

Kevin Faulk 30

Free Agents

Willie McGinest 34

Adam Vinatieri 33

David Givens 26

 

Workhorse

Footballguy
As long as the Pats have Brady they'll be a contender but age is starting to show. Belichick still has a young D-line and O-line but elsewhere has some issues. Their list of Super Bowl contributors that is 30+ or a free agent is growing.

30+

Troy Brown 35

Christian Fauria 34

Ty Poole 34

Tedy Bruschi 33

Rodney Harrison 33

Corey Dillon 31

Mike Vrabel 31

Kevin Faulk 30

Free Agents

Willie McGinest 34

Adam Vinatieri 33

David Givens 26
:confused: Brown, Fauria, Poole and Harrison were pretty much non-factors last year, and were replaced by younger guys.

The Pats have done an excellent job of replacing vets with young talent.

On another note, the Boston Herald is speculating that they might have some interest in Mawae:

 

Bri

Footballguy
As long as the Pats have Brady they'll be a contender but age is starting to show. Belichick still has a young D-line and O-line but elsewhere has some issues. Their list of Super Bowl contributors that is 30+ or a free agent is growing.

30+

Troy Brown 35

Christian Fauria 34

Ty Poole 34

Tedy Bruschi 33

Rodney Harrison 33

Corey Dillon 31

Mike Vrabel 31

Kevin Faulk 30

Free Agents

Willie McGinest 34

Adam Vinatieri 33

David Givens 26
at a bunch of those positions, I see the replacements already there. Whether they're an improvement or just "hold the fort" kinda guy, they're there. Like Cb/S Hawkins re-signed yesterday(thread here) Pass looked good last year. Evans could walk but he too looked good. We could use a thoroughbred but if they re-sign Evans they're not in horrible shape. Vrabel, Colvin, Pfifer(before), Brown....confident BB can find a vet if he wants a LBer. Fauria, Watson and Graham got that coverred. Hard not to have confidence in their front office.

 

Boston

Footballguy
As long as the Pats have Brady they'll be a contender but age is starting to show. Belichick still has a young D-line and O-line but elsewhere has some issues. Their list of Super Bowl contributors that is 30+ or a free agent is growing.

30+

Troy Brown 35

Christian Fauria 34

Ty Poole 34

Tedy Bruschi 33

Rodney Harrison 33

Corey Dillon 31

Mike Vrabel 31

Kevin Faulk 30

Free Agents

Willie McGinest 34

Adam Vinatieri 33

David Givens 26
I really disagree here. The Pats have a ton of young talent. Yes, they have some age but they are doing a great job of adding youth every year. Their starting O only had one player over 28 in Dillon. Here is a list of core players younger than 28.Brady

koppen

Light

Mankins

Kaczur

Hochstein

Gorin

Paxton

Branch

Graham

Watson

Pass

Seymour

Green

Warren

Wilfork

Colvin

Gay

Samuel

Hobbs

Also, Vrabel is only 30 and Faulk is 29 (Hawkins is 29 too). I also, didn't include the following player who are younger than 28 because I don't think they are quite yet core players or I think their time with team could be short.

Cassell

Klecko

Bethel

Sanders

Scott

Tucker

Yates

Krug

Childress

Hill

Banta-Cain

Beisel

Alexander

Wright

Poteat

The Pats obviously have some areas to address like LB and S but overall they are a young team when you consider they have won 3/5 championships. They've been very smart over this period injecting youth into a team that was old back in 01.

 

Boston

Footballguy
As long as the Pats have Brady they'll be a contender but age is starting to show.  Belichick still has a young D-line and O-line but elsewhere has some issues.  Their list of Super Bowl contributors that is 30+ or a free agent is growing.

30+

Troy Brown 35

Christian Fauria 34

Ty Poole 34

Tedy Bruschi 33

Rodney Harrison 33

Corey Dillon 31

Mike Vrabel 31

Kevin Faulk 30

Free Agents

Willie McGinest 34

Adam Vinatieri 33

David Givens 26
:confused: Brown, Fauria, Poole and Harrison were pretty much non-factors last year, and were replaced by younger guys.

The Pats have done an excellent job of replacing vets with young talent.

On another note, the Boston Herald is speculating that they might have some interest in Mawae:
That's a huge head-scratcher. Koppen is already there and he's a high quality player. He only has a year left on his deal but I don't see him not being a big factor this year. I'm not sure if he can switch to G but if they do go after Mawae something is up here.
 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
As long as the Pats have Brady they'll be a contender but age is starting to show.  Belichick still has a young D-line and O-line but elsewhere has some issues.  Their list of Super Bowl contributors that is 30+ or a free agent is growing.

30+

Troy Brown 35

Christian Fauria 34

Ty Poole 34

Tedy Bruschi 33

Rodney Harrison 33

Corey Dillon 31

Mike Vrabel 31

Kevin Faulk 30

Free Agents

Willie McGinest 34

Adam Vinatieri 33

David Givens 26
:confused: Brown, Fauria, Poole and Harrison were pretty much non-factors last year, and were replaced by younger guys.

The Pats have done an excellent job of replacing vets with young talent.
Didn't Jake Plummer knock them out of the playoffs last year?
 

pelland

Footballguy
As long as the Pats have Brady they'll be a contender but age is starting to show.  Belichick still has a young D-line and O-line but elsewhere has some issues.  Their list of Super Bowl contributors that is 30+ or a free agent is growing.

30+

Troy Brown 35

Christian Fauria 34

Ty Poole 34

Tedy Bruschi 33

Rodney Harrison 33

Corey Dillon 31

Mike Vrabel 31

Kevin Faulk 30

Free Agents

Willie McGinest 34

Adam Vinatieri 33

David Givens 26
:confused: Brown, Fauria, Poole and Harrison were pretty much non-factors last year, and were replaced by younger guys.

The Pats have done an excellent job of replacing vets with young talent.
Didn't Jake Plummer knock them out of the playoffs last year?
I thought the Pats knocked themselves out of the game with turnovers, but that's not really relevant to this thread.
 

Capella

CAPELLODINHO
As long as the Pats have Brady they'll be a contender but age is starting to show.  Belichick still has a young D-line and O-line but elsewhere has some issues.  Their list of Super Bowl contributors that is 30+ or a free agent is growing.

30+

Troy Brown 35

Christian Fauria 34

Ty Poole 34

Tedy Bruschi 33

Rodney Harrison 33

Corey Dillon 31

Mike Vrabel 31

Kevin Faulk 30

Free Agents

Willie McGinest 34

Adam Vinatieri 33

David Givens 26
:confused: Brown, Fauria, Poole and Harrison were pretty much non-factors last year, and were replaced by younger guys.

The Pats have done an excellent job of replacing vets with young talent.
Didn't Jake Plummer knock them out of the playoffs last year?
I thought the Pats knocked themselves out of the game with turnovers, but that's not really relevant to this thread.
No, the Broncos actually won that game.You Bahstan fans aren't much for giving credit where it's due, are you?

 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
As long as the Pats have Brady they'll be a contender but age is starting to show.  Belichick still has a young D-line and O-line but elsewhere has some issues.  Their list of Super Bowl contributors that is 30+ or a free agent is growing.

30+

Troy Brown 35

Christian Fauria 34

Ty Poole 34

Tedy Bruschi 33

Rodney Harrison 33

Corey Dillon 31

Mike Vrabel 31

Kevin Faulk 30

Free Agents

Willie McGinest 34

Adam Vinatieri 33

David Givens 26
:confused: Brown, Fauria, Poole and Harrison were pretty much non-factors last year, and were replaced by younger guys.

The Pats have done an excellent job of replacing vets with young talent.
Didn't Jake Plummer knock them out of the playoffs last year?
I thought the Pats knocked themselves out of the game with turnovers, but that's not really relevant to this thread.
True. My point was that alot of the key cogs to the Pats 3 Super Bowls are aging, a free agent or both. The jury is still out on whether BB & Pioli will be able to adequately replace guys like McGinest, Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Dillon, Givens, Vinatieri, etc.
 
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Boston

Footballguy
As long as the Pats have Brady they'll be a contender but age is starting to show.  Belichick still has a young D-line and O-line but elsewhere has some issues.  Their list of Super Bowl contributors that is 30+ or a free agent is growing.

30+

Troy Brown 35

Christian Fauria 34

Ty Poole 34

Tedy Bruschi 33

Rodney Harrison 33

Corey Dillon 31

Mike Vrabel 31

Kevin Faulk 30

Free Agents

Willie McGinest 34

Adam Vinatieri 33

David Givens 26
:confused: Brown, Fauria, Poole and Harrison were pretty much non-factors last year, and were replaced by younger guys.

The Pats have done an excellent job of replacing vets with young talent.
Didn't Jake Plummer knock them out of the playoffs last year?
I thought the Pats knocked themselves out of the game with turnovers, but that's not really relevant to this thread.
True. My point was that alot of the key cogs to the Pats 3 Super Bowls are aging, a free agent or both. The jury is still out on whether BB & Pioli will be able to adequately replace guys like McGinest, Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Dillon, Givens, Vinatieri, etc.
There's also a lot of different faces from the first title to the third. The only ones to start in both 01 and 04 are Light, Brady, Seymour, AV, Willie, Vrabel, Bruschi and Johnson/Pfifer (they both were kind of starters). Light, Seymour and Brady are just hitting their prime. Law was in 01 and on the 04 team but missed the majority of the season injured. So in reality the area that needs to be addressed with youth is LB which is pretty apparent although Vrabel and Colvin are still in their prime and Bruschi still has a lot of miles left.There's a huge difference in the rosters from 01 and 04. They are two very, very different teams with the 01 team being nowhere near as talented as 04.

 
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Jason Wood

Zoo York
Are we going to have to mention every ex-NE player in relation to Cleveland? :D

Honestly, the Browns went down that road once before...remember when they were signing former 49er cast offs left and right? How'd that work out for them?

McGinest has value, but he's getting old. The Browns need to rebuild the core of their team and that takes YOUTH if they want to compete long term.

 

Boston

Footballguy
Are we going to have to mention every ex-NE player in relation to Cleveland? :D

Honestly, the Browns went down that road once before...remember when they were signing former 49er cast offs left and right? How'd that work out for them?

McGinest has value, but he's getting old. The Browns need to rebuild the core of their team and that takes YOUTH if they want to compete long term.
I agree about the Cleveland/NE connection...it's getting old.I strongly disagree about going all youth. If you go all youth you can end up being like the LA Clippers or Detroit Lions. Great talent on paper but rudderless. One of the key components for youngsters growing and flourishing is veteran leadership. They need to learn the right way. That aspect is the most underrated thing about the Patriots. Every youngster always talks about how they are learning the ropes from guys like Willie, Rodney and Bruschi. Willie is as good of an addition as the Browns can get in that department. The fact he can play at a high level is a bonus. Looking at the Clippers I don't think it's a fluke that they finally turned it around when Sam Cassell came on board. As for the Pats I know Brian Cox was invaluable in this department and the addition of an "aging" Rodney Harrison was as big as any outside of Brady both on and off the field.

Youth is great. It's usually the lifeblood of teams that stay successful for a long period of time. Yet, these kids need mentors and the better environment they are exposed to the better their odds for success are.

 

Spike

Footballguy
As long as the Pats have Brady they'll be a contender but age is starting to show.  Belichick still has a young D-line and O-line but elsewhere has some issues.  Their list of Super Bowl contributors that is 30+ or a free agent is growing.

30+

Troy Brown 35

Christian Fauria 34

Ty Poole 34

Tedy Bruschi 33

Rodney Harrison 33

Corey Dillon 31

Mike Vrabel 31

Kevin Faulk 30

Free Agents

Willie McGinest 34

Adam Vinatieri 33

David Givens 26
:confused: Brown, Fauria, Poole and Harrison were pretty much non-factors last year, and were replaced by younger guys.

The Pats have done an excellent job of replacing vets with young talent.
Didn't Jake Plummer knock them out of the playoffs last year?
I thought the Pats knocked themselves out of the game with turnovers, but that's not really relevant to this thread.
No, the Broncos actually won that game.You Bahstan fans aren't much for giving credit where it's due, are you?
Plural? Really?
 

ROCKET

Footballguy
I can still remember the look on Jerry Jones' face :cry: when he couldn't pry the Pats pick out of them and move up to get Willie in the draft. If it truly is the end for Willie as a Pat thanks for the memories. I still think he has a little gas left in the tank.

 
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nerangers

Footballguy
Are we going to have to mention every ex-NE player in relation to Cleveland? :D

Honestly, the Browns went down that road once before...remember when they were signing former 49er cast offs left and right? How'd that work out for them?

McGinest has value, but he's getting old. The Browns need to rebuild the core of their team and that takes YOUTH if they want to compete long term.
Agreed...Dallas too.We had this discussion today at work...what would you rather have, a possiblity of a fourth ring, or more money? Guys like Adam want to test the FA market to see if they can get more. I think BB figures no one is going to pony up a big contract for McGinest and see if they can get him back at a discount. The plan could blow up on the Patriots though. One other thing to remember about players like this, even if they get more somewhere, they might lose it in endorsements. Some of these guys are fixtures in NE.

 
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nerangers

Footballguy
I wonder if they tried renegotiating first before cutting if they are still interested in him? Was he due a big bonus or something that they had to cut ties before trying to get him at a reduced rate to see if he was interested first?

Patriots | Team wants to re-sign McGinest

Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:13:26 -0800

The Boston Globe reports league sources said the New England Patriots want to re-sign free agent LB Willie McGinest (Patriots) with a lower contract then the one he had when he was released.

Cowboys | Team will pursue McGinest

Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:12:50 -0800

The Boston Globe reports league sources said the Dallas Cowboys will be one of the teams that will pursue free agent LB Willie McGinest (Patriots).

Chargers | Team will pursue McGinest

Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:12:04 -0800

The Boston Globe reports league sources said the San Diego Chargers will be one of the teams that will pursue free agent LB Willie McGinest (Patriots).

Browns | Team will pursue McGinest

Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:10:26 -0800

The Boston Globe reports league sources said the Cleveland Browns will be amongst the teams that will pursue free agent LB Willie McGinest (Patriots).

 

nerangers

Footballguy
From Boston.com

Some quick hits from McGinest's career in New England:* 171 games played with 146 starts* Selected by the Patriots with the fourth overall pick of the 1994 draft* Ranks third on the team's all-time sack list (78), trailing only Andre Tippett (100) and Julius Adams (79.5)* His 78 sacks are tied for the most among active NFL linebackers* NFL's all-time leader with 16 career playoff sacks* NFL's single-game playoff record holder with a 4.5-sack performance (vs. Jaguars, Jan. 7, 2006)* A member of eight playoff teams while appearing in a team record 18 playoff games* Has totaled 700 tackles (524 solo), four interceptions, 16 forced fumbles and scored four touchdowns (2 on INT returns; 2 on fumble recoveries)
 

HellToupee

Footballguy
McGinest said last week that he knew the Patriots were cutting him. They way he was talking it was like he was coming back for 2006 under a new deal.

 

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