Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
McNabb (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter baronson
- Start date
T
trader jake
Guest
Packers CB Ahmad Carroll made McNabb look like the best QB in the NFL tonight, but Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are the clear cut #1 & #2 (of course who goes where has been debated ad nausium here)
The debate begins at #3 after the big two imo. I'd say Carson Palmer, then Donovan McNabb myself.
The debate begins at #3 after the big two imo. I'd say Carson Palmer, then Donovan McNabb myself.
i think peyton's amazing. but give Donovan a guy like Marvin Harrison (to say nothin of him playing with Harrison at Cuse or Reggie Wayne either, for that matter), and i think you'll see that Donovan is even more insane. he turns guys like Greg Lewis, James Thrash, Chad Lewis, and Charles Johnson into decent receivers. i seem to remember Terrence Wilkins sucking *with* Peyton...bottom line, swap out the supporting casts, and Donovan is the man. period.ps - i know you can cite stats to support anything, but check the TD/Int ratio of each (don't know it off hand). i KNOW Donovan's is higher. quite possibly a lot higher.bigmarc27 said:
warning: tool out:you're a fool
T
trader jake
Guest
How'd he do two weeks ago with a lead? 
McNabb doesn't have a great playmaking WR but he has two of the best lines in all of football...where games are won. I seem to remember the Eagles winning with their back-up QB's in years past.
McNabb doesn't have a great playmaking WR but he has two of the best lines in all of football...where games are won. I seem to remember the Eagles winning with their back-up QB's in years past.
kutta
Footballguy
T
trader jake
Guest
It was obviously a joke. Calm down Rush.
kutta
Footballguy
Maybe he's too young to remember the Isiah Thomas, Larry Bird, and Rush Limbaugh.
put the bottle DOWN!!!!!!!!!!
kutta
Footballguy
Wingnut
Footballguy
Nothing factually wrong here. Can be argued for and against this list. Depends on what factors you, um, factor in.
i'll save everyone the irritation of large red X's and other inciteful interludes...the title clearly says "in the league." i think that implies "complete package." if it doesn't...
mcnabb is the best quarterback in the national football league. give him a guy like Harrison, Holt, Fitz, etc... and he absolutely explodes. feel free to comment.
GREAT reply
Wingnut
Footballguy
I realize that everyone has an opinion, and yours is that McNabb is the best QB in the league. Im just saying that an argument could be made for a number of QBs in the league, for or against. Not really saying youre wrong, just that its not something that can be answered 100% factually, as perception differs from person to person.
And
at the bolded part. Thanks for "saving me the irritation". 
Last edited by a moderator:
jurb26
Footballguy
Who are Brady's WRs again?
Lauryn
Footballguy
he had owens and couldn't put his ego aside to co-exist for more than one year.
Super King
Footballguy
He throws a lot of balls in the dirt. The best QBs in the league dont do that with the consistency he does. but he does make plays.baronson said:
ok, i'm really excited as someone who needed 3+ TDs from him to win tonight. thus the over-abundance of posts tonight. however, there is NO WAY you can possibly convince me that Palmer, Hasselbeck, or Ben are better QBs. has ben won it all? sure. so has Doug Williams and Trent Dilfer. Palmer is drowning in explosive offensive options, and Hasselbeck WILL implode this year (OL and Shaun will sink him). Donovan has always been under the microscope, and has always been a stud. he's got insane career stats, and he is BLOWING UP this season.Brady is obviously a player, and Manning is Manning. i think Donovan's easily in that class, and if you try each one on all three teams, i think Donovan blows them away.
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Houston, Giants, San Fran and GB are 4 of the worst teams in the league (look at how every opponent has torched these guys - remember Kurt Warner torching the Niners on opening day and recently Huard looking like Joe Montana this past weekend against the Niners? Kitna + Grossman + Brees torching GB? Everyone is torching the Giants last year and this year against the pass.)
So, can we hold off on the assessment until he actually plays against a real team that plays defense? Also, if I had him in FF, I would look to trade him high and get some really good players in return because his schedule is gonna get really tough (relatively).
So, can we hold off on the assessment until he actually plays against a real team that plays defense? Also, if I had him in FF, I would look to trade him high and get some really good players in return because his schedule is gonna get really tough (relatively).
Wingnut
Footballguy
O RLY?
Code:
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PYD Y/A PTD INT RSH YD Y/R TD FPT RANK 2003 PHI 16 275 478 3216 6.7 16 11 71 355 5.0 3 267 13i will accept that this (bolded part) means you realize you're nitpicking.
Wingnut
Footballguy
GUILTY!!
I love McNabb, I just feel like debating a bit. Hes top 5 and Ill leave it at that. My opinion on who the best QB is changes a few times a year.
Last edited by a moderator:
Lauryn
Footballguy
guilty here as well... i thought he would go back to being the 2003 bum-version without owens.I was way, way way off on my thoughts of McNabb earlier this year.
ah, but in both those years ('02 and '05) he was on pace for Top 5 before he got hurt.And Brady is not top 5. I don't care if "he won a superbowl" or more... HE didn't win them, the coaching staff and team did. Brady is just above average.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Ok, this I cant ignore. Brady is one of the best QBs in the league, IMO. He has had average WRs at best and has put up HOF numbers for years. Some QBs need stud WRs, some dont. Brady does not. He finds the open guy, has great accuracy, stays cooler than cool in big games, and just plain wins. Hes got the intangibles that it takes to be great, can run a no-huddle offense as well as anyone in the league, and is a true field general.I can see how someone may not rank him in the top 5, but to say he is "just above average" is way off the mark. Just my opinion man.
Big Score
Footballguy
I thought his wheels had fallen off too.guilty here as well... i thought he would go back to being the 2003 bum-version without owens.I was way, way way off on my thoughts of McNabb earlier this year.
Hope Vick watched this game so he can learn how to slide.
Bad example. Brady's WRs have been underrated for years, and now that he has WRs almost as bad as the immortal Pinkston/Thrash combo, he's looking very mortal. It's the New England running game that's carrying the team.Don't believe me? Check out their numbers on the season.
Brady: 54.1% completion, 6.70 ypa, 6 TDs, 3 INTs.
McNabb: 59.4% completion, 8.73 ypa, 9 TDs, 1 INT.
Oh, and McNabb has another 16/86/2 rushing (compared to Brady's 10/30/0). McNabb has done more with less than Brady has.
I said it in the offseason, and I'll repeat it now. There isn't another QB in the entire NFL whose studliness is so independent of his supporting cast. If you put McNabb, Peyton, and Brady on the three worst teams in the entire NFL, I'd wager that McNabb performed the best.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
although horrible so far this year, Big Ben belongs in this discussion.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
How was he stat wise with T.O in the lineup? As good as Manning?
Wingnut
Footballguy
McNabb had Stallworth in 2 games this year, and Westy in 3. Stallworth/Westy are superior to any New England WR/RB (although Maroney is looking pretty good). New Englands resurgent running game is why Brady has looked "mortal". Brady is on pace for 3465yds and 24tds. Still a top 10 FF wise. Statistically, Brady has had his best seasons when having to throw alot (since 2001, he has had 601, 527, 474, and 530 pass attempts). If the running game is working, they will use that to chew the clock. Why throw it if you dont need to? New England is 3-1. Im not sure that McNabb would have the cool head that Brady has had in big games. Wasnt McNabb throwing up in the huddle in the superbowl and accused of pretty much giving up??Just sayin.
Englishteacher
Footballguy
McNabb is the best fantasy QB but not even close for best QB.
He's not accurate enough to be the best QB.
He's not accurate enough to be the best QB.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Brady's WRs are underrated? Which of them ever did something without Brady? Oh and for the record, Brady was put on the worst team in the league when he started his career. A horrible 0-2 Pats team coming off a 6-10 season. A team that many predicted to pick #1 in the next draft. I'd say hes done alright.
T
trader jake
Guest
I just want to bump this after McNabb gets hurt prior to the end of the regular season.The guy tosses too many passes into the ground and (if we're being honest) isn't in the best of shape. He's great when healthy, will miss some games each year, and he won't get a ring...sounds like another Philly legend: Charles Barkley.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
McNabb is a very good QB, and probably one of the 6-8 best ones in the league, but the best? No freaking way.
I'd agree that Stallworth and Westy are greater than any New England RB/WR, but there are more than two offensive skill players on the field at any given time. I'd call Branch/Givens/Dillon/Graham/Watson a far sight better than Thrash/Pinkston/Freeman/Staley/Chad Lewis, McNabb's skill-position quintent in 2002 when he was lighting the NFL on fire.Also, New England's running game is *NOT* the reason why Brady has looked mortal. Yes, it's a large reason why his aggregate numbers are down, but that's why I posted his *PER PLAY* numbers. Brady is posting his career-worst comp%, and his worst ypa since 2002. Historically, having a great running game will hurt your numbers because you have fewer attempts, but it will actually *BOOST* your per-play numbers (comp% and ypa), since defenses are keying against your running game and stacking 8 in the box. I shudder to think what Brady would be doing if he didn't have Maroney and Dillon tearing defenses apart to keep them honest. I watched the Denver game, and the Broncos stacked 8 in the box all day and dared Brady to beat them... and Brady couldn't do it. In fact, he posted a miserable 5.82 yards per attempt and was flat out AFRAID to even challenge Bailey.Tom Brady is one of the top-5 QBs in the entire NFL, and I wouldn't even THINK of arguing against that... but at the same time, how many teams have ever *DARED* Peyton Manning or Donovan McNabb to beat them? And when teams DO, how many times have Peyton Manning and Donovan McNabb failed so miserably, or played so afraid?He's still Tom Terrific, but so far this season he can't hold a candle to McNabb. In fact, so far this season he hasn't looked very terrific at all, despite a downright DOMINANT running game opening things up for him. I think it's very clear, to me at least, that Tom Brady is not the same player without his WRs (while Donovan McNabb was still very much the same player with Pinkston/Thrash).If Brady starts developing a rapport with Gabriel, Chad Jackson, and Reche Caldwell, then things could very much change, but like I said, Tom Brady is very much dependent on his receivers in order to succeed.
Yeah, Brady's WRs were underrated. Troy Brown, David Givens, and Deion Branch were a very underrated WR corps. As for what they've done without Brady... well, Troy Brown had 2771 career receiving yards before Tom Brady ever entered the picture, and Givens/Branch have only played 6 combined games without Tom Terrific. For the record, the two have combined for 13/184 receiving in those 6 games without Tom Brady, which is a lot better when you consider that Givens is playing with the worst starting QB in the entire NFL and Branch has had, what, 20 days to learn Seattle's offense and is STILL clearly becoming a go-to guy on that team?I'm not bashing Brady. I'm saying that McNabb is less dependent on the talent around him to be a stud. McNabb was a stud with no rushing game (Duce Staley was the leading rusher with 1029 yards @ 3.8 ypc, and McNabb himself was the second-leading rusher). McNabb was a stud with no WR threats (Todd Pinkston and James Thrash. Seriously). Brady has so far struggled with circumstances nowhere NEAR as bad as McNabb's were in 2002 (stronger running game, and I'd take Gabriel/Caldwell/Brown over Pinkston/Thrash/Freeman).This isn't to say that McNabb is a better QB than Brady- just that McNabb is less dependent on the talent around him. McNabb's less dependent on his surrounding talent than Manning is, too, but I'd still take Manning over McNabb to QB my team. All of the QBs have their strengths. McNabb's strength just happens to be improvisation and excelling despite sub-par protection, sub-par targets, and no running game to keep defenses honest.
Tom Brady is the best QB in the NFL currently and one of the Top 5 of all time period. I really don't see how u can make a case for someone else who's playing currently and please don't even bring the name Peyton Manning up. A guy who choke year after year u don't compare him to someone with 3 rings
So I suppose John Elway was nowhere near the QB from 1984-1995 as he was from 1996-1998, too, right? I mean, from 1984-1995 he was a perrennial choker with 3 SB losses to his name... and from 1996-1998 he won two superbowls.Good thing Elway finally became a good quarterback in his last 3 seasons. That early career Elway guy couldn't hold a candle to that late-career Elway guy. His supporting cast had absolutely nothing to do with whether he succeeded or not, it was entirely a result of Elway getting over his case of Choke-itis.
Another point- the Denver game pretty much PROVES that Tom Brady is not one of the top-5 QBs of all time. Tom Brady was 29 years old, in the prime of his career, in the middle of his 6th straight season as a starter. He had 3 superbowl rings, and 2 SB MVPs (one of which he actually deserved). He was coming off of back-to-back pro bowl seasons where he posted 7.8 yards per attempt and a 2:1 TD:INT ratio (as well as 4,000 yards in the most recent season). And despite all of that, Denver loaded up against the run and dared Tom Brady to beat them.Think about that for a second. Denver loaded up against the run and *DARED TOM BRADY TO BEAT THEM*. Denver basically said that Lawrence Maroney and Corey Dillon were a bigger threat than Tom Brady. A rookie with 0 career starts and a 32-year old back with a ton of wear and tear.Question: How many times, do you think, did the team that faced John Elway, Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, Steve Young, or Brett Favre in their primes load up against the run and DARE those luminaries to beat them? I'd be willing to wager that the number is pretty darn close to zero. And if a defense *DID* dare those QBs to beat them, how many times do you think those QBs failed to deliver, or posted a measley 5.8 yards per attempt?Tom Brady is easily one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL right now. No way in hell is he one of the top 5 QBs in NFL history.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Remember though, besides Troy Brown, Brady's WRs this year are all new to the system (Gabriel, Jackson, Caldwell), and one of those is a rookie and missed most of camp, one was traded a few weeks ago, and one was a cast off from another team and isnt much to talk about. Only his TEs and Brown are familiar to him. McNabb has Stallworth (who is new but catches on quickly), Brown, Lewis, LJ, Westy...all superior to what Brady has around him.Im not saying this year McNabb isnt playing better than Brady, just that you have to remember what Brady lost coming into the season. He didnt even know he lost his WR1 until the season started.
One game does not make or break an "All Time Great". Denvers game plan was solid and it worked. That fact doesnt take away from Brady's "greatness". Its one game.
I dont know the answer, but Id guess that all of those guys had worse games than 31-55 for 320 and 1TD in a loss before. Yeah Denver stacked the box, but their secondary isnt full of slouches. How many times have any of those guys lost their 3 leading wide receivers from the previous year?? None, so we will never know how they would have fared if they were in Bradys 2006 shoes in their prime. Im a 9er fan and saw Young flustered and have a bad game on more than one occasion in his prime. It doesnt mean he wasnt great. I dont know if Brady is top 5 all time or not, but even though McNabb has better numbers this year and looks better, Im not sold yet that McNabb is better than Brady as far as NFL history is concerned.
Kai's Hero
Footballguy
You got to be kidding, right? He's not in the Top 10! 
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
He's the best fantasy QB right now but I'd take a bunch of guys over him for the real thing.
faulkfan
Footballguy
Please note that he has been less than stellar this year as well. It is impossible to compare, but thusfar this year Brady has been a below average QB while working with a bunch of stiffs. The running game has carried that team and McNabb always seemed to have crappy WRs AND crappy RBs.Its all opinion anyway. Just depends on your personal attitudes towards the players themselves and your allegiances.
Last edited by a moderator:
