Meltdown in Japan's Reactors (1 Viewer)

[St. Louis Bob]

Leak stopped

 

[Slapdash]

Had some good sushi last night, still alive.

 

[Random]

Had some good sushi last night, still alive.

And you glow in the dark

 

[flufhed]

Had some good sushi last night, still alive.

Me, too.:highfive:

 

[PinkydaPimp]

Had some good sushi last night, still alive.

And you glow in the dark

this you?

 

[drpill]

Japan No 2 core melted through reactor vessel: Rep. Markey

(Reuters) - The core at Japan's Fukushima nuclear reactor has melted through the reactor pressure vessel, Democratic Congressman Edward Markey told a hearing on the nuclear disaster on Wednesday.

"I have been informed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission that the core of Unit Two has gotten so hot that part of it has probably melted through the reactor pressure vessel," said Markey, a prominent nuclear critic in the House of Representatives.

This sounds bad, anyone want to try to elaborate on the implications?

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Japan No 2 core melted through reactor vessel: Rep. Markey

(Reuters) - The core at Japan's Fukushima nuclear reactor has melted through the reactor pressure vessel, Democratic Congressman Edward Markey told a hearing on the nuclear disaster on Wednesday.

"I have been informed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission that the core of Unit Two has gotten so hot that part of it has probably melted through the reactor pressure vessel," said Markey, a prominent nuclear critic in the House of Representatives.

This sounds bad, anyone want to try to elaborate on the implications?

A fear mongering politician is trying to score points with his liberal pot smoking constituents?

 

[David Dodds]

Cleaning up Japan's radioactive water could take decades

http://www.latimes.c...0,2011011.story

...Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Cleaning up Japan's radioactive water could take decades

http://www.latimes.c...0,2011011.story

...Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water.

Perhaps they can build a pipeline to bueno's house so he can bathe in it.

 

[nysfl2]

You ready to eat sushi caught from that area anytime soon? That part of the planet is in fact being destroyed for the near future.

Yes, I would eat it right now.

BS. I don't believe for a second that you would eat tuna or salmon caught anywhere near that plant right now.

Sure I would. Because iodine doesn't concentrate in seafood and cesium concentrates best in mud, which is purged from filter-feeders before it is served. No problems at all.

Japan said some fish caught last week about 50 miles (80 kilometers) from the plant would have exceeded the new safety limits, which may change as circumstances do.

So even though fish 50 miles away contain radioactive iodine in excess of safety limits, good 'ole bueno is willing to eat raw fish caught directly in front of the plant.

Yep. Safety limits are deliberately set low. The old CYA comes in play.

Safety limits in any sort of food are set based on assumptions of a person eating the same food (and typically a large quantity of it) over the course of a year. And they are set at a level corresponding to a dose at least two orders of magnitude lower than what a radiation worker can legally be exposed to over the course of a year. Eating a single meal of fish from outside the plant wouldn't hurt you in the least, unless they start reporting that the fish are thousands to millions of times higher than the legal limits.

 

[PIK95]

Cleaning up Japan's radioactive water could take decades

http://www.latimes.c...0,2011011.story

...Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water.

Perhaps they can build a pipeline to bueno's house so he can bathe in it.

lmao!

 

[David Dodds]

http://fairewinds.com/content/closing-ranks-nrc-nuclear-industry-and-tepco-are-limiting-flow-information

A good video from Arnie Gundersen

 

[Dexter Manley]

Cleaning up Japan's radioactive water could take decades

http://www.latimes.c...0,2011011.story

...Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water.

Perhaps they can build a pipeline to bueno's house so he can bathe in it.

 

[Incogneto]

*Gulp*

Workers evacuate Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant after 7.4-magnitude quake, Tokyo Electric Power Company says.

- From CNN.com

 

[PinkydaPimp]

*Gulp*Workers evacuate Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant after 7.4-magnitude quake, Tokyo Electric Power Company says. - From CNN.com

yikes. they just cant get a break.

 

[3C's]

http://fairewinds.com/content/closing-ranks-nrc-nuclear-industry-and-tepco-are-limiting-flow-information

A good video from Arnie Gundersen

Maybe he's right, but he's not a totally trustworthy source. He also called Fukushima "Chernobyl on steroids", which it obviously isn't.http://atomicinsights.blogspot.com/2011/02/arnie-gundersen-has-inflated-his-resume.html

 

[3C's]

The International Atomic Energy Agency says it has detected early signs of recovery at the crisis-stricken nuclear power plant in Japan.

Speaking to reporters in Vienna on Thursday, IAEA deputy director general Denis Flory said there are early signs of recovery in some functions such as electrical power and instrumentation at the Fukushima Daiichi power station.

But he added the overall situation remains very serious.

 

[bueno]

Cleaning up Japan's radioactive water could take decades

http://www.latimes.c...0,2011011.story

...Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water.

Perhaps they can build a pipeline to bueno's house so he can bathe in it.

Hey, it wasn't that long ago, that bathing in radium hot springs was considered healthy.BTW - I was in Vancouber all week, I made sure I ate a lot of sushi - just for TGunz.

 

[Incogneto]

Cleaning up Japan's radioactive water could take decades

http://www.latimes.c...0,2011011.story

...Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water.

Perhaps they can build a pipeline to bueno's house so he can bathe in it.

Hey, it wasn't that long ago, that bathing in radium hot springs was considered healthy.BTW - I was in Vancouber all week, I made sure I ate a lot of sushi - just for TGunz.

I live in Victoria, BC. Sushi is a way of life here. No change since the disaster in Japan.

 

[bueno]

Cleaning up Japan's radioactive water could take decades

http://www.latimes.c...0,2011011.story

...Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water.

What a misleading headline. If you actually read the story, you will see that it says "that the plant faces at least six months of emergency stabilization, about two years of temporary remediation and anywhere from two years to 30 years of full-scale cleanup." NOT THE WATER, THE PLAT!Talk about intellectual dishonesty!

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Cleaning up Japan's radioactive water could take decades

http://www.latimes.c...0,2011011.story

...Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water.

Perhaps they can build a pipeline to bueno's house so he can bathe in it.

Hey, it wasn't that long ago, that bathing in radium hot springs was considered healthy.BTW - I was in Vancouber all week, I made sure I ate a lot of sushi - just for TGunz.

I don't doubt Bueno would bathe in it. He'd gladly eat sushi imported from Japan. He takes 6 trips a year to mile high radiation and pollution infested DF. Breathing the air there is like smoking 2 packs a day. And if the water isn't filtered, the shower water he bathes in down there is much fouler than any effluent leaking into Japans ocean.

 

[bueno]

Cleaning up Japan's radioactive water could take decades

http://www.latimes.c...0,2011011.story

...Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water.

Perhaps they can build a pipeline to bueno's house so he can bathe in it.

Hey, it wasn't that long ago, that bathing in radium hot springs was considered healthy.BTW - I was in Vancouber all week, I made sure I ate a lot of sushi - just for TGunz.

I don't doubt Bueno would bathe in it. He'd gladly eat sushi imported from Japan. He takes 6 trips a year to mile high radiation and pollution infested DF. Breathing the air there is like smoking 2 packs a day. And if the water isn't filtered, the shower water he bathes in down there is much fouler than any effluent leaking into Japans ocean.

All with no ill effects.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

http://mitnse.com/

Regulatory Limits on Radiation Dose

Posted on April 7, 2011 10:28 pm UTC by mitnse

Safety Limits: What are they? How are they determined?

Much of the discussion concerning radiation levels and radioactive material releases has been presented in the context of safety limits set by a regulator. Examples of such limits include the I-131 limit for drinking water (210 Bq/L) or an annual occupational radiation dose limit (0.05 Sv). What is often left out of these discussions is how these limits were determined and what exceeding a limit implies. This post is intended to provide a general description of the implications of safety limits.

What is a Safety Limit and how are Safety Limits determined?

Safety limits are designed to protect the public from a potential harm and are often set well below the point of potential danger to prevent that point of danger from being accidentally reached. Safety Limits are determined in two steps. First, by identifying the amount of exposure to any given agent, above which causes a health effect to be observed. This amount is determined for the most vulnerable members of the population, and considers the effects of both short and long-term exposure. That resulting number is then divided by a safety factor to ensure that the public is never exposed to dangerous levels. The reason for the safety factor is so the regulator will have time to fix the problem before the levels reach a point that can cause harm to the public, if for whatever reason, the safety limit is exceeded. The more uncertain the dividing line between safety and harm is, the larger the safety factor used to protect the public.

Key Principles of Radiation Protection at Low Radiation Exposure

The probabilistic nature of low-dose radiation health effects makes it impossible to derive a clear distinction between ‘safe’ and ‘dangerous’ level of radiation. This also creates difficulties in explaining the control of radiation risks. The major policy implication is that some finite risk, however small, must be assumed and a level of protection established based on what is deemed acceptable. This leads to a system of protection based on three key principles recognized by the International Commission of Radiation Protection (ICRP) and endorsed by the US National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurement (NCRP) and all other national agencies:

- Principle of Justification, based on the analysis of benefit versus risk of exposure;

- Principle of Optimization of Exposure, based on the ALARA (As Low As Reasonably Achievable) principle;

- Principle of limitation of exposure to any person;

The ICRP, in its latest Recommendations on Radiological Protection, stated that for radiation doses below around 100 mSv in a year, the increase in the incidence of stochastic effects is assumed to occur with a small probability and in proportion to the increase in radiation dose over the background dose. The use of this so-called linear-non-threshold (LNT) model is considered by the ICRP and by NCRP the best practical approach to managing risk from radiation exposure and commensurate with precautionary principle, being a prudent basis for radiological protection at low doses and low dose rates. However, uncertainties on the over-conservatism on this judgment are recognized by the ICRP and the NCRP, which have stated the need for further evaluation based on new research results.

Despite the fact that the actual onset of latent cancer and other long term effects in relationship to radioactivity exposure is unknown, we do know that those effects are not statistically significant at very low doses. In simpler terms, the number of cancers caused by exposure to low doses of radiation is so small that we can’t sort it out from the noise – the natural rate of cancer incidence.

In 1980, the US National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurement (NCRP) published a report examining and quantifying the dose rate effect. In examining all laboratory data regarding tumor induction published at that time, they found that lowering the dose rate from acute (eg 180 mSv/hr) to about 4.8 mSv/hr reduced the rate of tumor generation by an average factor of 4. They called this the ‘dose rate effectiveness factor’, DREF. When the irradiations were much longer term irradiations, comprising “a significant or sizeable fraction of the life span” an even larger reduction in effect was observed, an average of a factor of 10; this was called the ‘protraction factor’ (PF). With few exceptions, the dose rates used in all of the laboratory studies cited in NCRP 64 used ‘low dose rates’ at least a factor of 4000 times higher than normal background dose rates. It is the results of these experiments and others like them, plus corresponding safety factors, which are used to establish regulatory limits on dose and dose rate to the general public.

However, what is of interest today in Japan are dose-rates more like 10, 30, or 100 times background. What about these dose rates? The problem noted by the NCRP was that deleterious effects of these very low dose rates could not be observed. In fact, low doses and low dose rates led to increased longevity rather than the decreased lifespan seen at higher doses and dose rates. In addressing the apparent life lengthening at low dose rates, the NCRP interpreted this effect as reflecting “a favorable response to low grade injury leading to some degree of systemic stimulation.” They go on to state that “…there appears to be little doubt that mean life span in some animal populations exposed to low level radiation throughout their lifetimes is longer than that of the un-irradiated control population.” In the future, the accurate examination of residents of high background radiation areas around the world might generate the needed information on this phenomenon, which is termed “radiation hormesis”. Based on the presently available data, residents of high background radiation areas (sizeable population is exposed up to 20 mSv per year from natural background) do not appear to suffer adverse effects from these doses.

Areas characterized with background radiation significantly higher than average can be found in Iran, Brazil, India, Australia and China. In the U.S., the population of Denver receives more than 10 mSv per year from natural background.

 

[David Dodds]

100 Sieverts / Hour Detected in Dry well of Unit 1

http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=1

Lethal dose with about 5 minutes of exposure.

 

[David Dodds]

Pressure in Reactor 1 also rising

http://atmc.jp/plant/vessel/?n=1

 

[3C's]

dry well, not drywall

 

[identikit]

Cleaning up Japan's radioactive water could take decades

http://www.latimes.c...0,2011011.story

...Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water.

What a misleading headline. If you actually read the story, you will see that it says "that the plant faces at least six months of emergency stabilization, about two years of temporary remediation and anywhere from two years to 30 years of full-scale cleanup." NOT THE WATER, THE PLAT!Talk about intellectual dishonesty!

Dodds,Do you even read the articles you post?

 

[The Future Champs]

dry well, not drywall

In that case it's probably no big deal.

 

[bueno]

dry well, not drywall

In that case it's probably no big deal.

We already know that the water was contaminated by the partial meltdown, so you are right.

 

[3C's]

dry well, not drywall

In that case it's probably no big deal.

It jumped up to 100 and a few hours later was down below 7. TEPCO says faulty reading.

 

[David Dodds]

dry well, not drywall

In that case it's probably no big deal.

It jumped up to 100 and a few hours later was down below 7. TEPCO says faulty reading.

and what the last two weeks of readings over 30? Are they faulty too?http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=1

 

[bueno]

dry well, not drywall

In that case it's probably no big deal.

It jumped up to 100 and a few hours later was down below 7. TEPCO says faulty reading.

and what the last two weeks of readings over 30? Are they faulty too?http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=1

Looking at those graphs, there is a definite down trend to the data, then one high reading that is obviously in error. You play stocks David. You know about trend line analysis. I can't believe you're buying this puppy.

 

[3C's]

dry well, not drywall

In that case it's probably no big deal.

It jumped up to 100 and a few hours later was down below 7. TEPCO says faulty reading.

and what the last two weeks of readings over 30? Are they faulty too?http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=1

I believe that would point to both the 100 and the 7 being from faulty readings.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

On the one month anniversary of the Japan quake/tsunami, another powerful aftershock. CNN is reporting that number 1, 2, and 3 have all lost electical power.

Magnitude 7.1-quake jolts Japan coastBy the CNN Wire StaffApril 11, 2011 4:58 a.m. EDTA tsunami warning is issued for several prefecturesWorkers at the Fukushima Daiichi plant are asked to evacuateRELATED TOPICS (CNN) -- A magnitude 7.1 earthquake rattled the northeastern coast of Japan Monday evening, the U.S. Geological Survey reported.Japan's Meteorological Agency issued a tsunami warning, predicting a potential wave of two-meters in Miyagi, Fukushima and Chiba and Ibaraki prefectures.The quake was centered about 164 kilometers (101 miles) northeast of Tokyo, according to the USGS. Residents in Tokyo felt the jolts.Workers at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant were asked to evacuate.

 

[David Dodds]

Officially a 7 on the 7 point scale now.

http://www.washingto...FEND_story.html

A level 7 accident, according to the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale, is typified by a "major release of radioactive material with widespread health and environmental effects."

Previously only Chernobyl had been given a 7 rating. The 1979 Three Mile Island nuclear accident in Pennsylvania was rated a level 5 incident.

According to Kyodo, Japan’s Nuclear Safety Commission reported Monday that the plant, at one point after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, had been releasing 10,000 terabecquerels of radioactivity per hour. The report did not specify when those radiation readings occurred. A release of tens of thousands of terabecquerels per hour, though, correspondents with the radiation leakage level that the IAEA uses as a minimum benchmark for a level 7 accident.

“This corresponds to a large fraction of the core inventory of a power reactor, typically involving a mixture of short- and long-lived radionuclides,” an IAEA document says. “With such a release, stochastic health effects over a wide area, perhaps involving more than one country, are expected.”

 

[Sinn Fein]

 

[David Dodds]

TEPCO wary of Fukushima radiation leak exceeding Chernobyl

http://www.reuters.c...E00635920110412

"The radiation leak has not stopped completely and our concern is that it could eventually exceed Chernobyl," an official from operator Tokyo Electric and Power told reporters on Tuesday.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

This is almost too strange to be real.

 

[Fennis]

TEPCO and the Japanese Government has told one lie after another. It's all catching up with them.

 

[David Dodds]

For those people comparing to bananas.

One banana equals about 15 becquerels

They are talking about releasing 10,000 terabecquerels per hour at Fukushima.

(About 667 trillion bananas an hour for those counting at home)

 

[Das Boot]

For those people comparing to bananas.One banana equals about 15 becquerelsThey are talking about releasing 10,000 terabecquerels per hour at Fukushima.(About 667 trillion bananas an hour for those counting at home)

We're going to need more monkeys.

 

[Dr. Gobbler]

I live in SoCal.

CAN I ####### PANIC NOW?!?!?!?!

The good news is that independent monitors are only showing slightly elevated radiation levels here, on the whole, if they are correct. I hope they are correct. I can't find any readings for all the other stuff that is being leaked out of there.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

For those people ...

You mean those that have been authoritatively scolding you the past month that have flexed their expertise into being wrong about just about everything? Those "know it alls"?

 

[flufhed]

Dodds is gonna need a towel to wipe off that drool.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Dodds wins. /thread

 

[Sinn Fein]

For those people comparing to bananas.

One banana equals about 15 becquerels

They are talking about releasing 10,000 terabecquerels per hour at Fukushima.

(About 667 trillion bananas an hour for those counting at home)

We're going to need more monkeys.

Link

Q: But if you have a lot of somethings that are very small, can’t that amount to a large thing at some point?

A: In theory I suppose…but it’s not a practical concern. You’re exposed to higher levels of radiation eating a banana than you would be standing outside the exclusion zone set up around the reactor.

Q: With all due respect, Professor…I don’t think you can compare eating a banana with eating uranium fuel rods.

A: I never mentioned anything about eating uranium fuel rods. That’s insane.

Q: Because of the danger?

A: Of course because of the danger.

Q: And what about these radioactive bananas? Should we be avoiding them?

A: What radioactive bananas?

Q: You just mentioned radioactive bananas a few seconds ago.

A: There’s no such thing as radioactive bananas. Bananas contain tiny amounts of radioactive material but not enough to harm you.

Q: How many of these radioactive bananas would someone have to eat before they ran the risk of a meltdown or of mutating into a giant insect?

A: I don’t know. Several trillion I suspect.

Q: The scientific community seems to just churn out these huge numbers glibly but can you put this into context for the average viewer? What might several trillion bananas look like?

A: It would be huge.

Q: Could you give the viewers an example that might be relevant to them?

A: Well, if the tennis-ball size chunk of coke they caught Charlie Sheen with was a banana, then he would have to have a coke-ball the size of the Earth to equate to several trillion bananas.

Q: I see…and at this stage are there any plans to bring Charlie Sheen to Japan to help with what looks like becoming the worst nuclear disaster since the Chernobyl catastrophe nearly three decades ago which killed hundreds of thousands of people and left millions more severely injured or possibly exposed to radiation that turned them into giant mutant insects…

It was written a month ago

 

[Sheriff66]

 

[David Dodds]

I live in SoCal. CAN I ####### PANIC NOW?!?!?!?!The good news is that independent monitors are only showing slightly elevated radiation levels here, on the whole, if they are correct. I hope they are correct. I can't find any readings for all the other stuff that is being leaked out of there.

This is still likely to remain mostly a local issue to people in Japan, but contaminated milk is showing up all over.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Contaminated milk showing up all over....

All over where? The Northern part of Japan? Malaysia? Indo-China? I didn't know that Japan was a prime dairy producer for the world.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I hope Bueno didn't really eat that tainted sushi