Meltdown in Japan's Reactors (2 Viewers)

[bueno]

Tepco's Damaged Reactors MayWill Take 30 Years, $12 Billion to Scrap

http://www.bloomberg...n-to-scrap.html

When "may be" becomes "will" then it will be news, don't you think?

I doubt these posts will still be on the board in 30 years.

David, David, David. You missed the point. So I editted the headline for you.

 

[David Dodds]

Why didn't major media outlets cover this story?

Agreed. This is a very cool story and a shame it wasn't front and center everywhere.

 

[David Dodds]

Tepco's Damaged Reactors MayWill Take 30 Years, $12 Billion to Scrap

http://www.bloomberg...n-to-scrap.html

When "may be" becomes "will" then it will be news, don't you think?

I doubt these posts will still be on the board in 30 years.

David, David, David. You missed the point. So I editted the headline for you.

No I got the point. They wrote an article estimating what the costs and timeframe would be to clean up this accident. Just like news outlets do with budgets, costs of wars, etc. I doubt this would be read by many people if they wrote the piece after all of the cleanup was completed and stated what the costs were decades from now.

 

[bueno]

Tepco's Damaged Reactors MayWill Take 30 Years, $12 Billion to Scrap

http://www.bloomberg...n-to-scrap.html

When "may be" becomes "will" then it will be news, don't you think?

I doubt these posts will still be on the board in 30 years.

David, David, David. You missed the point. So I editted the headline for you.

No I got the point. They wrote an article estimating what the costs and timeframe would be to clean up this accident. Just like news outlets do with budgets, costs of wars, etc. I doubt this would be read by many people if they wrote the piece after all of the cleanup was completed and stated what the costs were decades from now.

My point is that the story quotes a "researcher" at a think tank and a university professor. So I hardly see an engineered estimate here. Just two people more pompous than either of us grabbing headlines. Call me when we have a real estimate.

 

[Fennis]

Bueno in all honestly, I cant believe you are still clinging to this isn't a big deal claim.

 

[David Dodds]

Bueno in all honestly, I cant believe you are still clinging to this isn't a big deal claim.

To be fair he has said it was like a large banana

 

[David Dodds]

Radiation rises in seawater near Fukushima plant

The country's nuclear and industrial safety agency, Nisa, said radioactive iodine-131 at 3,355 times the legal limit had been identified in the sea about 300 yards south of the plant, although officials have yet to determine how it got there.

http://www.guardian....fukushima-plant

 

[3C's]

Radiation levels falling in waters off Fukushima

The science ministry says levels of radiation in seawater near the crippled Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant are on the decline.

The ministry has been collecting seawater samples at 4 locations 30 kilometers off the coast of Fukushima Prefecture since March 23rd. The locations were at intervals of 20 kilometers from north to south.

The ministry started the research after waters near the plant's drain outlets were found to be contaminated with a high density of radioactive substances.

The ministry said 1.5 to 3.9 becquerels of radioactive cesium-137 per liter were found in seawater samples taken on Sunday. The amounts represent 1,000 to 2,600 times the levels measured in the same area 2 years ago.

But the current levels are only one-fifth to one-tenth of those detected on March 23rd.

The density of radioactive iodine-131 is also decreasing. It now stands at 5.4 to 15 becquerels per liter.

The ministry said radiation density in the seawater is higher than normal, but it is declining.

Cesium-137 is said to remain in the environment for a longer time than other substances as it takes roughly 30 years to lose half of its radioactive intensity.

The Marine Ecology Research Institute says cesium-137 will not be directly absorbed into fish through gills but some species can accumulate the element by eating plankton and smaller fish.

It's believed that through this process, the density of cesium in fish can increase 10 to 100 times the level in the seawater.

It usually takes some time for radioactive material to be detected in fish after it flows into the sea. In many cases, such substances are found in flatfish and Japanese seaperch 2 to 3 months after a confirmed leak into the sea.

However, unlike mercury, such elements are eliminated from fish in several weeks.

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 06:25 +0900 (JST)

 

[3C's]

In all seriousness, that was an article from about 18 hours ago. There's a more recent article (about 6 hours later) that says there's high radiation (highest measured) in the water at an outlet from the plant.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

On the 8 ABC radio news report this morning some expert said ( I missed the name) that this is being completely overblown and he spent the entire day inside the zone yesterday without any protective gear. FWIW

 

[culdeus]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Start hoarding paper?

 

[Fennis]

On the 8 ABC radio news report this morning some expert said ( I missed the name) that this is being completely overblown and he spent the entire day inside the zone yesterday without any protective gear. FWIW

Was it Bueno?

 

[jamny]

On the 8 ABC radio news report this morning some expert said ( I missed the name) that this is being completely overblown and he spent the entire day inside the zone yesterday without any protective gear. FWIW

Was it Bueno?

 

[bueno]

Bueno in all honestly, I cant believe you are still clinging to this isn't a big deal claim.

Well let's look at the latest AP article entitled Setbacks mount in Japan at leaking nuclear plant!

TOKYO – Setbacks mounted Wednesday in the crisis over Japan's tsunami-damaged nuclear facility, with nearby seawater testing at its highest radiation levels yet1 and the president of the plant operator checking into a hospital with hypertension.

Nearly three weeks after a March 11 earthquake and tsunami slammed and engulfed the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant, knocking out cooling systems that keep nuclear fuel rods from overheating, Tokyo Electric Power Co. is still struggling to bring the facility in northeastern Japan under control.

The country's Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko reached out to some of the thousands displaced by the twin disasters — which have killed more than 11,000 people — spending about an hour consoling a group of evacuees at a Tokyo center.

"I couldn't talk with them very well because I was nervous, but I felt that they were really concerned about us," said Kenji Ukito, an evacuee from a region near the plant. "I was very grateful."

At the crippled plant, leaking radiation has seeped into the soil and seawater nearby and made its way into produce, raw milk and even tap water as far as Tokyo, 140 miles (220 kilometers) to the south.2

The stress of reining in Japan's worst crisis since World War II has taken its toll on TEPCO President Masataka Shimizu, who went to a hospital late Tuesday.3

Shimizu, 66, has not been seen in public since a March 13 news conference in Tokyo, raising speculation that he had suffered a breakdown. For days, officials deflected questions about Shimizu's whereabouts, saying he was "resting" at company headquarters.

Spokesman Naoki Tsunoda said Wednesday that Shimizu had been admitted to a Tokyo hospital after suffering dizziness and high blood pressure.

The leadership vacuum at TEPCO — whose shares have plunged nearly 80 percent since the crisis began — comes amid growing criticism over its failure to halt the radiation leaks. Bowing deeply, arms at his side, Chairman Tsunehisa Katsumata announced at a news conference that he would step in and apologized for the delay.

"We must do everything we can to end this situation as soon as possible for the sake of everyone who has been affected," said Yuhei Sato, governor of Fukushima prefecture. "I am extremely disappointed and saddened by the suggestion that this might drag out longer."

Although experts have said since the early days of the crisis that the nuclear complex will need to be scrapped because workers have sprayed it with corrosive seawater to keep fuel rods cool, TEPCO acknowledged publicly for the first time Wednesday that at least four of the plant's six reactors will have to be decommissioned.4 "After pouring seawater on them ... I believe we cannot use them anymore," Katsumata said. Japan's government has been saying since March 20 that the entire plant must be scrapped.

On Wednesday, nuclear safety officials said seawater 300 yards (meters) outside the plant contained 3,355 times the legal limit for the amount of radioactive iodine — the highest rate yet and a sign that more contaminated water was making its way into the ocean.5

The amount of iodine-131 found south of the plant does not pose an immediate threat to human health but was a "concern," said Hidehiko Nishiyama, a Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency official. He said there was no fishing in the area.6

Radioactive iodine is short-lived, with a half-life of just eight days, and in any case was expected to dissipate quickly in the ocean. It does not tend to accumulate in shellfish.7

"We will nail down the cause, and will do our utmost to prevent it from rising further," he said.

Highly toxic plutonium also has been detected in the soil outside the plant, TEPCO said. Safety officials said the amounts did not pose a risk to humans, but the finding supports suspicions that dangerously radioactive water is leaking from damaged nuclear fuel rods. There have been no reports of plutonium being found in seawater.8

The latest findings on radioactive iodine highlighted the urgent need to power up the power plant's cooling system. Workers succeeded last week in reconnecting some parts of the plant to the power grid.

But as they pumped in water to cool the reactors and nuclear fuel, they found pools of radioactive water in the basements of several buildings and in trenches outside.9

The contaminated water has been emitting many times the amount of radiation that the government considers safe for workers, 10making it a priority to pump the water out before electricity can be restored.

Complicating matters, the tanks storing the contaminated water are beginning to fill up. Pumping at one unit has been suspended since Tuesday night while workers scramble to drain a new tank after the first one reached capacity. And the water just kept coming Wednesday, when a new pool was found.11

In another effort to reduce the spread of radioactive particles, TEPCO plans to spray resin on the ground around the plant. The company will test the method Thursday in one section of the plant before using it elsewhere, Nishiyama said.12

"The idea is to glue them to the ground," he said. But it would be too sticky to use inside buildings or on sensitive equipment.

The government also is considering covering some reactors with cloth tenting, TEPCO said. If successful, that could allow workers to spend longer periods of time in other areas of the plant.13

Meanwhile, white smoke was reported coming from a plant about 10 miles (15 kilometers) from the troubled one. The smoke quickly dissipated and no radiation was released; officials were looking into its cause. The Fukushima Daini plant also suffered some damage in the tsunami but has been in cold shutdown since days after the quake.

The spread of radiation has raised concerns about the safety of Japan's seafood, even though experts say the low levels suggest radiation won't accumulate in fish at unsafe levels. Trace amounts of radioactive cesium-137 have been found in anchovies as far afield as Chiba, near Tokyo, but at less than 1 percent of acceptable levels.14

Experts say the Pacific is so vast that any radiation will be quickly diluted before it becomes problematic. Citing dilution, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has played down the risks of seafood contamination.

As officials seek to bring an end to the nuclear crisis, hundreds of thousands in the northeast are trying to put their lives back together. The official death toll stood at 11,257 on Wednesday, with the final toll likely surpassing 18,000.

The government said damage is expected to cost $310 billion, making it the most costly natural disaster on record.

In the town of Rikuzentakata, one 24-year-old said she's been searching every day for a missing friend but will have to return to her job at a nursing home because she has run out of cash.

Life is far from back to normal, she said.

"Our family posted a sign in our house: Stay positive," Eri Ishikawa said. But she said it's a struggle.

1 Reaching highest levels yet sounds bad, but how can we be surprised? We know daughter products breached containment during the hydrogen explosions. The question is whether the levels are dangerous. Now that the hook has been set and the sensationalization made, when we get to actual facts, they will not have the same effect on the lay person had the story not been spun to sensationalize.2 Nobody said this wouldn't happen, but OMGs! Raw milk and water are radioactive! Get a clue. Everything is radioactive. Unless you are drinking ground water that hasn't seen the environment since pre-atomic era, you're drinking a radioactive isotope of hydrogen. every day. The question is whether it poses a serious health risk.

3 Yeah, I would too, but this has nothing to do with the plant. And it's the only real new news in the piece. How this translates into porblems mounting at the plant is beyond me.

4 Yeah, we already knew that. I've been saying that since the beginning. So has the Japanese government. How is this a mounting problem?

5 Is the contaminated sea water a health risk? Or is this spun to sell the story? Let's keep reading.

6, 7 Oh, it is not a threat, it dissipates rapidly, has a short half-life and doesn't accumulate in shellfish. I guess it was spin.

8 It doesn't pose a risk to humans, but it is dangerous. Got it.

9 Shouldn't surprise anyone. We know the core partially melted, at least. We knew it would take a lot of water to cool it. We obviously don't have a closed cooling system anymore. And the water isn't evaporating.

10 Really, this isn't news. Of course the water is going to exceed government safety standards. Of course it has to be pumped out.

11 Here is where there is a communications breakdown. Where are they draining the water to? Is this why the radiation levels in the seawater are rising? Hmm... Communication breakdown, it's always the same. Drives me insane.

12 This is a really good idea. I thought they would either cover the ground with a layer of dirt, or clay, or even asphalt. This could be better. Guess it's a plan.

13 This is another cool idea, but it also tells me another thing. The cloth would only stop alpha and beta radiation. Not gamma. This tells me what is happening in the reactors - normal radioactive decay of the heavy elements - uranium and plutonium. There is likely still some iodine around, and obviously cesium too (given its longer half-life). But there ain't any fission happening.

14 Seafood is safe. Check.

Now let's talk about what the story doesn't say.

1. No nuclear fission going on. - good news.

2. Except for the immediate plant site, no harmful levels of radiation. - good news

3. No hydrogen explosions means the cores are not so hot that they are melting and ionizing water. - good news

4. Water accumulating means temperatures below the boiling point of water. - good news.

Translation: disaster averted, things are slowly coming under control. Good news. Of course, spinning it that way doesn't sell.

 

[bueno]

In all seriousness, that was an article from about 18 hours ago. There's a more recent article (about 6 hours later) that says there's high radiation (highest measured) in the water at an outlet from the plant.

You're talking about the plant outlet. 3C is talking about collection stations 20 kilometers away.

 

[bueno]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Start hoarding paper?

Damn, and I sold my IP stock!!

 

[Otis]

World over yet?

Oh I see there is a breaking headline today. "Radiation fears spread as Fukushima workers battle leak"

By "breaking headline" I mean "two-week old news."

 

[Biabreakable]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Beta particles can be stopped by a piece of paper but it does not mean that they will. You are misleading the reader repeatedly making this statement.

Of the three common types of radiation given off by radioactive materials, alpha, beta and gamma, beta has the medium penetrating power and the medium ionising power. Although the beta particles given off by different radioactive materials vary in energy, most beta particles can be stopped by a few millimeters of aluminum. Being composed of charged particles, beta radiation is more strongly ionising than gamma radiation. When passing through matter, a beta particle is decelerated by electromagnetic interactions and may give off bremsstrahlung x-rays.

beta particles which are 100 times more penetrating than alpha particles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_particlesThe problem I have with you and R is that you make gross assumptions and use your experience/knowledge to attempt to establish authority on the subject. But you consistently minimize the situation and destroy the credibility of your statements each time you do so. That is if people actually take the time to educate themselves instead of just taking your "expert" word for it.

How about you follow your own advice in your signature? Both you and R have been trying to sweep the dangers of this to the Japanese people from the beginning. You distort the truth and provide misinformation to support your position on nuclear regardless of what is happening.

I have been watching the radiation levels reported on a almost daily basis. I am cautiously optimistic about the situation because I see those readings going down a bit each day. I hope that pattern continues and a solution to the crisis at the plant can be found.

 

[Sinn Fein]

In all seriousness, that was an article from about 18 hours ago. There's a more recent article (about 6 hours later) that says there's high radiation (highest measured) in the water at an outlet from the plant.

You're talking about the plant outlet. 3C is talking about collection stations 20 kilometers away.

Aren't they both from 3C Maybe the mutations have already started...

 

[3C's]

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Let us examine a few facts: There are many hundreds of nuclear power generation plants operating around the world. Sixteen countries depend on nuclear power for at least a quarter of their electricity. France gets around three quarters of its power from nuclear energy, while Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, Slovenia and Ukraine get one third or more. ( http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf01.html )

Japan’s 55 plants produce 1/3 of the electrical power for that nation. Nuclear power generation has been around for over 40 years. In all that time and with all those plants operating, there have been so few incidents that the 2 big ones, 3 Mile Island and Chernobyl, are seared into our memory, and the more minor incidents are all but forgotten.

Most of these incidents involved short-lived releases of small amounts of radioactive contamination. But even the more serious events were hardly catastrophic… Who remembers October 5, 1966 when the core of an experimental reactor near Detroit, MI experienced a partial meltdown when its cooling system failed? ( http://www.atomicarchive.com/Reports/Japan/Accidents.shtml )

Hundreds of nuclear plants have operated for decades without incident, and the last significant incident before the Fukushima event was in 1999 when workers at a Japanese plant mixing uranium with nitric acid to make nuclear fuel used too much uranium and accidentally set off an uncontrolled reaction. A number of plant workers were exposed to radiation, and local residents were ordered to stay indoors for a time. Not exactly a world-shaking event.

The point being that nuclear accidents are rare, and usually overblown. Even the 3-Mile Island incident has had few lasting effects.

Still, the radioactive material involved in nuclear power generation is indeed quite dangerous. Therefore, significant safeguards must be in place. The fact of the matter is… they ARE!

Let’s look at the Japanese situation. First, they experienced a 9.0 earthquake and HUNDREDS of 5+ pre and aftershocks. ALL 55 Japanese reactors WITHSTOOD this level of seismic activity! The Richter scale is logarithmic, where each whole number is 10 times the intensity of the previous number. Southern California has rarely experienced a quake above magnitude 7. Yet the Japanese quake was 100 times more powerful, and ALL their nuke plants withstood it! Fukushima was a unique situation unlikely to ever be replicated anywhere else in the world. A nuke plant built ON the San Andreas would never have experienced the intensity of quake that ALL 55 reactors in Japan successfully endured!

The earthquake triggered the procedures to shut down the reactor. This occurred as designed. The chain-reaction was stopped. The quake took out the local electrical power grid. The backup generators kicked in as designed. These backup generators had redundant backup generators behind them. And behind them, there were batteries. These redundant systems would keep the cooling system operational until normal electrical power could be restored. Except… the Tsunami struck.

The tsunami took out the generators. All of them. It also insured that electrical power from the grid wasn’t coming back anytime soon. When the batteries had been expended, cooling was lost and the problems began. Fukushima is a unique situation. A “perfect storm” of cataclysm converged on this plant – one unlikely to ever be replicated anywhere else on the planet!

There is virtual certainty that the Fukushima situation will not progress out of control to anything approaching the Chernobyl disaster. Yes, some radiation was released and this is a significant mishap. But the reaction to this event is overblown. In the immediate vicinity of the plant, during the period of time until the radiation is contained, there is certainly a danger. But the panic in the USA and the run on potassium iodide is mere hysteria. The effect on the USA will be little more than going thru the TSA’s naked scanner a time or two!

Once power is available to re-enable cooling, the situation will be brought under control in short order thereafter. The Fukushima plant may well be damaged beyond the point of ever bringing it back online to produce electricity… but the “fallout” from the incident will likely be far more impactful politically than physically.

link

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Beta particles can be stopped by a piece of paper but it does not mean that they will. You are misleading the reader repeatedly making this statement.

Of the three common types of radiation given off by radioactive materials, alpha, beta and gamma, beta has the medium penetrating power and the medium ionising power. Although the beta particles given off by different radioactive materials vary in energy, most beta particles can be stopped by a few millimeters of aluminum. Being composed of charged particles, beta radiation is more strongly ionising than gamma radiation. When passing through matter, a beta particle is decelerated by electromagnetic interactions and may give off bremsstrahlung x-rays.

beta particles which are 100 times more penetrating than alpha particles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_particlesThe problem I have with you and R is that you make gross assumptions and use your experience/knowledge to attempt to establish authority on the subject. But you consistently minimize the situation and destroy the credibility of your statements each time you do so. That is if people actually take the time to educate themselves instead of just taking your "expert" word for it.

How about you follow your own advice in your signature? Both you and R have been trying to sweep the dangers of this to the Japanese people from the beginning. You distort the truth and provide misinformation to support your position on nuclear regardless of what is happening.

I have been watching the radiation levels reported on a almost daily basis. I am cautiously optimistic about the situation because I see those readings going down a bit each day. I hope that pattern continues and a solution to the crisis at the plant can be found.

You are being too harsh. I for one, welcome these pro-nuclear misinformation overlords.

Who else is as qualified to tell you in one post, that no one knows what is going on, and so no one should speculate, and then later can speculate a lack of fission in the reactor, based on varying levels of radiation, from a source that has been wrong more times than it has been right? Today, I learned that the plutonium is a danger that can be covered up with coffee filters and that laying off the crab cakes will be keep me safe. Check, and check. Thanks for the knowledge.

While there is a bit of hyperbole, and loose reading of the tea leaves, I am willing to hit my "I believe" button. Serve up some more "nothing to see here" stew. I am hungry.

Seriously, I hope that they are right. We all should be hoping and praying they are right. There will be no satisfaction to saying "I told you so", if this gets worse.

 

[rascal]

Has anybody else seen the special on OETA? Holy freaking crap.

 

[bueno]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Beta particles can be stopped by a piece of paper but it does not mean that they will. You are misleading the reader repeatedly making this statement.

Of the three common types of radiation given off by radioactive materials, alpha, beta and gamma, beta has the medium penetrating power and the medium ionising power. Although the beta particles given off by different radioactive materials vary in energy, most beta particles can be stopped by a few millimeters of aluminum. Being composed of charged particles, beta radiation is more strongly ionising than gamma radiation. When passing through matter, a beta particle is decelerated by electromagnetic interactions and may give off bremsstrahlung x-rays.

beta particles which are 100 times more penetrating than alpha particles.

http://en.wikipedia..../Beta_particlesThe problem I have with you and R is that you make gross assumptions and use your experience/knowledge to attempt to establish authority on the subject. But you consistently minimize the situation and destroy the credibility of your statements each time you do so. That is if people actually take the time to educate themselves instead of just taking your "expert" word for it.

How about you follow your own advice in your signature? Both you and R have been trying to sweep the dangers of this to the Japanese people from the beginning. You distort the truth and provide misinformation to support your position on nuclear regardless of what is happening.

I have been watching the radiation levels reported on a almost daily basis. I am cautiously optimistic about the situation because I see those readings going down a bit each day. I hope that pattern continues and a solution to the crisis at the plant can be found.

yes, I am sure that reading a generalized Wiki article tells you what energy beta particles from radioactive decay has versus what energy beta particles from an atomic explosion have. Why you're just about ready to get a degree in atomic physics after reading that, aren't you?You know why they are thinking of putting cloth sheets around the reactors? Like instead of aluminum sheets? No, didn't think so.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

You know why they are thinking of putting cloth sheets around the reactors? Like instead of aluminum sheets? No, didn't think so.

Why do either since there is nothing to see here...

 

[BassNBrew]

You know why they are thinking of putting cloth sheets around the reactors? Like instead of aluminum sheets? No, didn't think so.

Price of AL foil is up?The mega foil rolls aren't big enough to wrap a reactor?Excessive clothing available in Japan due to all the radiation deaths?Big Cloth companies are pulling the emporor's strings?Geroge Bush is in charge of the operation?

 

[bueno]

You know why they are thinking of putting cloth sheets around the reactors? Like instead of aluminum sheets? No, didn't think so.

Price of AL foil is up?The mega foil rolls aren't big enough to wrap a reactor?Excessive clothing available in Japan due to all the radiation deaths?Big Cloth companies are pulling the emporor's strings?Geroge Bush is in charge of the operation?

So what are you drinking tonight?

 

[rascal]

Has anybody else seen the special on OETA? Holy freaking crap.

Link?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/japan-killer-quake.html

 

[Fennis]

IAEA wants evacuation zone widened

The U.N. nuclear watchdog says radiation north of the crippled Japanese power plant exceeds criteria for evacuation.

 

[bueno]

IAEA wants evacuation zone widenedThe U.N. nuclear watchdog says radiation north of the crippled Japanese power plant exceeds criteria for evacuation.

Link? Not that the UN is my favorite agency, but I'd like to see what the numbers are.

 

[Fennis]

IAEA wants evacuation zone widenedThe U.N. nuclear watchdog says radiation north of the crippled Japanese power plant exceeds criteria for evacuation.

Link? Not that the UN is my favorite agency, but I'd like to see what the numbers are.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42350531/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

 

[bueno]

IAEA wants evacuation zone widened

The U.N. nuclear watchdog says radiation north of the crippled Japanese power plant exceeds criteria for evacuation.

Link? Not that the UN is my favorite agency, but I'd like to see what the numbers are.

http://www.msnbc.msn...ws-asiapacific/

Thanks Fennis. It is really frustrating when a story doesn't report numbers.

 

[Fennis]

IAEA wants evacuation zone widened

The U.N. nuclear watchdog says radiation north of the crippled Japanese power plant exceeds criteria for evacuation.

Link? Not that the UN is my favorite agency, but I'd like to see what the numbers are.

http://www.msnbc.msn...ws-asiapacific/

Thanks Fennis. It is really frustrating when a story doesn't report numbers.

This is from the NY Times article discussed in the MSNBC linkhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/31/world/asia/31japan.html?_r=1

The international team, using a measure of radioactivity called the becquerel, found as much as 3.7 million becquerels per square meter; the standard used at Chernobyl was 1.48 million.

 

[3C's]

IAEA wants evacuation zone widened

The U.N. nuclear watchdog says radiation north of the crippled Japanese power plant exceeds criteria for evacuation.

Link? Not that the UN is my favorite agency, but I'd like to see what the numbers are.

http://www.msnbc.msn...ws-asiapacific/

Thanks Fennis. It is really frustrating when a story doesn't report numbers.

This is from the NY Times article discussed in the MSNBC linkhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/31/world/asia/31japan.html?_r=1

The international team, using a measure of radioactivity called the becquerel, found as much as 3.7 million becquerels per square meter; the standard used at Chernobyl was 1.48 million.

Nuclear watchdog defends its decisionJapan's nuclear safety watchdog says it sees no reason to change the zone for which the government advised residents to stay indoors or evacuate voluntarily.

The Nuclear Safety Commission made the remark to reporters on Thursday, following reports by the IAEA that radiation levels twice as high as its criterion for evacuation were detected in soil at a village outside the zone.

Commission member Seiji Shiroya said evacuation criteria in Japan are decided according to how much radiation people would be exposed to, not radiation levels in the ground. He said the IAEA's findings should be used as references, but that the commission's decision on the zone is correct.

Shiroya said the commission studies various factors, including radiation levels in the air and amounts of airborne radioactive substances taken into the body through breathing and eating.

He said the IAEA probably measured radiation on a grass surface with available equipment, but that he believes the commission's figures are more accurate when considering the effect on the human body.

 

[bueno]

IAEA wants evacuation zone widened

The U.N. nuclear watchdog says radiation north of the crippled Japanese power plant exceeds criteria for evacuation.

Link? Not that the UN is my favorite agency, but I'd like to see what the numbers are.

http://www.msnbc.msn...ws-asiapacific/

Thanks Fennis. It is really frustrating when a story doesn't report numbers.

This is from the NY Times article discussed in the MSNBC linkhttp://www.nytimes.c...japan.html?_r=1

The international team, using a measure of radioactivity called the becquerel, found as much as 3.7 million becquerels per square meter; the standard used at Chernobyl was 1.48 million.

Nuclear watchdog defends its decisionJapan's nuclear safety watchdog says it sees no reason to change the zone for which the government advised residents to stay indoors or evacuate voluntarily.

The Nuclear Safety Commission made the remark to reporters on Thursday, following reports by the IAEA that radiation levels twice as high as its criterion for evacuation were detected in soil at a village outside the zone.

Commission member Seiji Shiroya said evacuation criteria in Japan are decided according to how much radiation people would be exposed to, not radiation levels in the ground. He said the IAEA's findings should be used as references, but that the commission's decision on the zone is correct.

Shiroya said the commission studies various factors, including radiation levels in the air and amounts of airborne radioactive substances taken into the body through breathing and eating.

He said the IAEA probably measured radiation on a grass surface with available equipment, but that he believes the commission's figures are more accurate when considering the effect on the human body.

Would be nice if everyone used the same units. Sieverts, which is what everyone else uses, quantifies biological effects of radiation while becquerel is a measure of radioactive decay measured in seconds. I don't even think one can be converted to the other. Becquerels would include a number of forms of radiation, such as alpha particles which have no penetrating power to speak of. I have to go with the NSC on this one simply because of what is being measured.To me, the UN numbers are somewhat obfuscatory, but thanks for the post anyway.

ETA: If you could put 950 people into one square meter, you would have 3.7 million becquerels. While that would be one crowded phone booth, I don't know how to use that to assess biological hazard.

 

[CBusAlex]

ETA: If you could put 950 people into one square meter, you would have 3.7 million becquerels. While that would be one crowded phone booth, I don't know how to use that to assess biological hazard.

I'm going to need this in terms of bananas per square meter, please.

 

[bueno]

ETA: If you could put 950 people into one square meter, you would have 3.7 million becquerels. While that would be one crowded phone booth, I don't know how to use that to assess biological hazard.

I'm going to need this in terms of bananas per square meter, please.

We might have to stay out of the produce department at Costco?

 

[Biabreakable]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Beta particles can be stopped by a piece of paper but it does not mean that they will. You are misleading the reader repeatedly making this statement.

Of the three common types of radiation given off by radioactive materials, alpha, beta and gamma, beta has the medium penetrating power and the medium ionising power. Although the beta particles given off by different radioactive materials vary in energy, most beta particles can be stopped by a few millimeters of aluminum. Being composed of charged particles, beta radiation is more strongly ionising than gamma radiation. When passing through matter, a beta particle is decelerated by electromagnetic interactions and may give off bremsstrahlung x-rays.

beta particles which are 100 times more penetrating than alpha particles.

http://en.wikipedia..../Beta_particlesThe problem I have with you and R is that you make gross assumptions and use your experience/knowledge to attempt to establish authority on the subject. But you consistently minimize the situation and destroy the credibility of your statements each time you do so. That is if people actually take the time to educate themselves instead of just taking your "expert" word for it.

How about you follow your own advice in your signature? Both you and R have been trying to sweep the dangers of this to the Japanese people from the beginning. You distort the truth and provide misinformation to support your position on nuclear regardless of what is happening.

I have been watching the radiation levels reported on a almost daily basis. I am cautiously optimistic about the situation because I see those readings going down a bit each day. I hope that pattern continues and a solution to the crisis at the plant can be found.

yes, I am sure that reading a generalized Wiki article tells you what energy beta particles from radioactive decay has versus what energy beta particles from an atomic explosion have. Why you're just about ready to get a degree in atomic physics after reading that, aren't you?You know why they are thinking of putting cloth sheets around the reactors? Like instead of aluminum sheets? No, didn't think so.

I never claimed to be an expert that was you. That your comments can be so easily refuted by a wiki article is on you not me. Your the one claiming that beta particles are so innocuous that they will all be repelled by paper. Something you know is not true but you say it anyways.

 

[SofaKings]

Crap it has started. I broke an egg today and it had two yolks. the end is near.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

ETA: If you could put 950 people into one square meter, you would have 3.7 million becquerels. While that would be one crowded phone booth, I don't know how to use that to assess biological hazard.

I'm going to need this in terms of bananas per square meter, please.

"My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I like it!"

 

[bueno]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Beta particles can be stopped by a piece of paper but it does not mean that they will. You are misleading the reader repeatedly making this statement.

Of the three common types of radiation given off by radioactive materials, alpha, beta and gamma, beta has the medium penetrating power and the medium ionising power. Although the beta particles given off by different radioactive materials vary in energy, most beta particles can be stopped by a few millimeters of aluminum. Being composed of charged particles, beta radiation is more strongly ionising than gamma radiation. When passing through matter, a beta particle is decelerated by electromagnetic interactions and may give off bremsstrahlung x-rays.

beta particles which are 100 times more penetrating than alpha particles.

http://en.wikipedia..../Beta_particlesThe problem I have with you and R is that you make gross assumptions and use your experience/knowledge to attempt to establish authority on the subject. But you consistently minimize the situation and destroy the credibility of your statements each time you do so. That is if people actually take the time to educate themselves instead of just taking your "expert" word for it.

How about you follow your own advice in your signature? Both you and R have been trying to sweep the dangers of this to the Japanese people from the beginning. You distort the truth and provide misinformation to support your position on nuclear regardless of what is happening.

I have been watching the radiation levels reported on a almost daily basis. I am cautiously optimistic about the situation because I see those readings going down a bit each day. I hope that pattern continues and a solution to the crisis at the plant can be found.

yes, I am sure that reading a generalized Wiki article tells you what energy beta particles from radioactive decay has versus what energy beta particles from an atomic explosion have. Why you're just about ready to get a degree in atomic physics after reading that, aren't you?You know why they are thinking of putting cloth sheets around the reactors? Like instead of aluminum sheets? No, didn't think so.

I never claimed to be an expert that was you. That your comments can be so easily refuted by a wiki article is on you not me. Your the one claiming that beta particles are so innocuous that they will all be repelled by paper. Something you know is not true but you say it anyways.

Let me try one more time: beta particles from radioactive decay are not as energetic as beta particles from fission, especially from atomic explosions. The beta particles at the reactor are from radioactive decay, because fission had already been stopped. Therefore they are less energetic and less penetrating.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Beta particles can be stopped by a piece of paper but it does not mean that they will. You are misleading the reader repeatedly making this statement.

Of the three common types of radiation given off by radioactive materials, alpha, beta and gamma, beta has the medium penetrating power and the medium ionising power. Although the beta particles given off by different radioactive materials vary in energy, most beta particles can be stopped by a few millimeters of aluminum. Being composed of charged particles, beta radiation is more strongly ionising than gamma radiation. When passing through matter, a beta particle is decelerated by electromagnetic interactions and may give off bremsstrahlung x-rays.

beta particles which are 100 times more penetrating than alpha particles.

http://en.wikipedia..../Beta_particlesThe problem I have with you and R is that you make gross assumptions and use your experience/knowledge to attempt to establish authority on the subject. But you consistently minimize the situation and destroy the credibility of your statements each time you do so. That is if people actually take the time to educate themselves instead of just taking your "expert" word for it.

How about you follow your own advice in your signature? Both you and R have been trying to sweep the dangers of this to the Japanese people from the beginning. You distort the truth and provide misinformation to support your position on nuclear regardless of what is happening.

I have been watching the radiation levels reported on a almost daily basis. I am cautiously optimistic about the situation because I see those readings going down a bit each day. I hope that pattern continues and a solution to the crisis at the plant can be found.

yes, I am sure that reading a generalized Wiki article tells you what energy beta particles from radioactive decay has versus what energy beta particles from an atomic explosion have. Why you're just about ready to get a degree in atomic physics after reading that, aren't you?You know why they are thinking of putting cloth sheets around the reactors? Like instead of aluminum sheets? No, didn't think so.

I never claimed to be an expert that was you. That your comments can be so easily refuted by a wiki article is on you not me. Your the one claiming that beta particles are so innocuous that they will all be repelled by paper. Something you know is not true but you say it anyways.

If you read this thread from beginning to end, one thing that's clear is that bueno thinks he knows more than he does. He's been way off on some of the most basic, fundamental principles of nuclear chemistry. He should not be considered an authority by any stretch.

 

[bueno]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Beta particles can be stopped by a piece of paper but it does not mean that they will. You are misleading the reader repeatedly making this statement.

Of the three common types of radiation given off by radioactive materials, alpha, beta and gamma, beta has the medium penetrating power and the medium ionising power. Although the beta particles given off by different radioactive materials vary in energy, most beta particles can be stopped by a few millimeters of aluminum. Being composed of charged particles, beta radiation is more strongly ionising than gamma radiation. When passing through matter, a beta particle is decelerated by electromagnetic interactions and may give off bremsstrahlung x-rays.

beta particles which are 100 times more penetrating than alpha particles.

http://en.wikipedia..../Beta_particlesThe problem I have with you and R is that you make gross assumptions and use your experience/knowledge to attempt to establish authority on the subject. But you consistently minimize the situation and destroy the credibility of your statements each time you do so. That is if people actually take the time to educate themselves instead of just taking your "expert" word for it.

How about you follow your own advice in your signature? Both you and R have been trying to sweep the dangers of this to the Japanese people from the beginning. You distort the truth and provide misinformation to support your position on nuclear regardless of what is happening.

I have been watching the radiation levels reported on a almost daily basis. I am cautiously optimistic about the situation because I see those readings going down a bit each day. I hope that pattern continues and a solution to the crisis at the plant can be found.

yes, I am sure that reading a generalized Wiki article tells you what energy beta particles from radioactive decay has versus what energy beta particles from an atomic explosion have. Why you're just about ready to get a degree in atomic physics after reading that, aren't you?You know why they are thinking of putting cloth sheets around the reactors? Like instead of aluminum sheets? No, didn't think so.

I never claimed to be an expert that was you. That your comments can be so easily refuted by a wiki article is on you not me. Your the one claiming that beta particles are so innocuous that they will all be repelled by paper. Something you know is not true but you say it anyways.

If you read this thread from beginning to end, one thing that's clear is that bueno thinks he knows more than he does. He's been way off on some of the most basic, fundamental principles of nuclear chemistry. He should not be considered an authority by any stretch.

This from the guy who said using seawater was not in the navy manual and was then contradicted by somebody who actually teaches naval procedures.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Beta particles can be stopped by a piece of paper but it does not mean that they will. You are misleading the reader repeatedly making this statement.

Of the three common types of radiation given off by radioactive materials, alpha, beta and gamma, beta has the medium penetrating power and the medium ionising power. Although the beta particles given off by different radioactive materials vary in energy, most beta particles can be stopped by a few millimeters of aluminum. Being composed of charged particles, beta radiation is more strongly ionising than gamma radiation. When passing through matter, a beta particle is decelerated by electromagnetic interactions and may give off bremsstrahlung x-rays.

beta particles which are 100 times more penetrating than alpha particles.

http://en.wikipedia..../Beta_particlesThe problem I have with you and R is that you make gross assumptions and use your experience/knowledge to attempt to establish authority on the subject. But you consistently minimize the situation and destroy the credibility of your statements each time you do so. That is if people actually take the time to educate themselves instead of just taking your "expert" word for it.

How about you follow your own advice in your signature? Both you and R have been trying to sweep the dangers of this to the Japanese people from the beginning. You distort the truth and provide misinformation to support your position on nuclear regardless of what is happening.

I have been watching the radiation levels reported on a almost daily basis. I am cautiously optimistic about the situation because I see those readings going down a bit each day. I hope that pattern continues and a solution to the crisis at the plant can be found.

yes, I am sure that reading a generalized Wiki article tells you what energy beta particles from radioactive decay has versus what energy beta particles from an atomic explosion have. Why you're just about ready to get a degree in atomic physics after reading that, aren't you?You know why they are thinking of putting cloth sheets around the reactors? Like instead of aluminum sheets? No, didn't think so.

I never claimed to be an expert that was you. That your comments can be so easily refuted by a wiki article is on you not me. Your the one claiming that beta particles are so innocuous that they will all be repelled by paper. Something you know is not true but you say it anyways.

If you read this thread from beginning to end, one thing that's clear is that bueno thinks he knows more than he does. He's been way off on some of the most basic, fundamental principles of nuclear chemistry. He should not be considered an authority by any stretch.

This from the guy who said using seawater was not in the navy manual and was then contradicted by somebody who actually teaches naval procedures.

Wrong. That wasn't me. Nice try though.

 

[bueno]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Beta particles can be stopped by a piece of paper but it does not mean that they will. You are misleading the reader repeatedly making this statement.

Of the three common types of radiation given off by radioactive materials, alpha, beta and gamma, beta has the medium penetrating power and the medium ionising power. Although the beta particles given off by different radioactive materials vary in energy, most beta particles can be stopped by a few millimeters of aluminum. Being composed of charged particles, beta radiation is more strongly ionising than gamma radiation. When passing through matter, a beta particle is decelerated by electromagnetic interactions and may give off bremsstrahlung x-rays.

beta particles which are 100 times more penetrating than alpha particles.

http://en.wikipedia..../Beta_particlesThe problem I have with you and R is that you make gross assumptions and use your experience/knowledge to attempt to establish authority on the subject. But you consistently minimize the situation and destroy the credibility of your statements each time you do so. That is if people actually take the time to educate themselves instead of just taking your "expert" word for it.

How about you follow your own advice in your signature? Both you and R have been trying to sweep the dangers of this to the Japanese people from the beginning. You distort the truth and provide misinformation to support your position on nuclear regardless of what is happening.

I have been watching the radiation levels reported on a almost daily basis. I am cautiously optimistic about the situation because I see those readings going down a bit each day. I hope that pattern continues and a solution to the crisis at the plant can be found.

yes, I am sure that reading a generalized Wiki article tells you what energy beta particles from radioactive decay has versus what energy beta particles from an atomic explosion have. Why you're just about ready to get a degree in atomic physics after reading that, aren't you?You know why they are thinking of putting cloth sheets around the reactors? Like instead of aluminum sheets? No, didn't think so.

I never claimed to be an expert that was you. That your comments can be so easily refuted by a wiki article is on you not me. Your the one claiming that beta particles are so innocuous that they will all be repelled by paper. Something you know is not true but you say it anyways.

If you read this thread from beginning to end, one thing that's clear is that bueno thinks he knows more than he does. He's been way off on some of the most basic, fundamental principles of nuclear chemistry. He should not be considered an authority by any stretch.

This from the guy who said using seawater was not in the navy manual and was then contradicted by somebody who actually teaches naval procedures.

Wrong. That wasn't me. Nice try though.

You're right. That was by someone far more intelligent than you. Someone who actually had something to contribute other than the same personal attack M.O. you've been using for 5 years.

 

[3C's]

Hopefully this helps and is the only leak.

Tokyo Electric Power Company says it has identified for the first time a place where high-level radioactive water is leaking into the ocean from the No. 2 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

The power company said on Saturday that water has been seeping from a crack in the wall of a 2-meter deep pit that contains power cables near the reactor's water intake.

Water measuring between 10 and 20 centimeters deep was found in the pit. The radiation level has been measured at over 1,000 milisieverts per hour.

The company says it is preparing to pour concrete into the cracked pit to stop the radioactive water leak.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

On the 8 ABC radio news report this morning some expert said ( I missed the name) that this is being completely overblown and he spent the entire day inside the zone yesterday without any protective gear. FWIW

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/japan-nuke-crisis-american-dead-zone-13254192?tab=9482931&section=1206828

 

[The Future Champs]

You're right. That was by someone far more intelligent than you. Someone who actually had something to contribute other than the same personal attack M.O. you've been using for 5 years.

This post brings you shame.

 

[renesauz]

Plutonium levels are about the same as they've always been, but it's still a concern.

"Detected so far are levels of radioactive decay ranging between 0.18 and 0.54 becquerels per kilogram of soil — about the same amount observed in Japan after the nuclear tests carried out in the Pacific in the 1950s and 1960s."

http://search.japant...20110329x2.html

Seriously, I am still looking for levels of radiation that would create a "kill zone."As to plutonium, like uranium, its natural decay scheme is beta radiation. Throw a couple inches of dirt over it. Beta particles are stopped by a piece of paper.

I admit I wouldn't eat any filter feeders like clams down on the beach, but this is not the Armageddon some people make it out to be.

Beta particles can be stopped by a piece of paper but it does not mean that they will. You are misleading the reader repeatedly making this statement.

Of the three common types of radiation given off by radioactive materials, alpha, beta and gamma, beta has the medium penetrating power and the medium ionising power. Although the beta particles given off by different radioactive materials vary in energy, most beta particles can be stopped by a few millimeters of aluminum. Being composed of charged particles, beta radiation is more strongly ionising than gamma radiation. When passing through matter, a beta particle is decelerated by electromagnetic interactions and may give off bremsstrahlung x-rays.

beta particles which are 100 times more penetrating than alpha particles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_particlesThe problem I have with you and R is that you make gross assumptions and use your experience/knowledge to attempt to establish authority on the subject. But you consistently minimize the situation and destroy the credibility of your statements each time you do so. That is if people actually take the time to educate themselves instead of just taking your "expert" word for it.

How about you follow your own advice in your signature? Both you and R have been trying to sweep the dangers of this to the Japanese people from the beginning. You distort the truth and provide misinformation to support your position on nuclear regardless of what is happening.

I have been watching the radiation levels reported on a almost daily basis. I am cautiously optimistic about the situation because I see those readings going down a bit each day. I hope that pattern continues and a solution to the crisis at the plant can be found.

People are "educating" themselves with highly questionable sources making (at best questionable, and often outrageous) conclusions. My experiance and training more than qualifies me to read between the lines of rhetoric and interpret the actual FACTS released based on the facts alone instead of the conclusions spouted by some reporter interpreting them with both an agenda (fear mongering) and a lack of real training.I've stayed out of this thread several days now because I was on vacation in Florida, not because I was hiding. SOme of my conclusions have changed a little.

1. There has been a breach. ONe or more of the reactors has been leaking and continues to leak. This is, IMO, the worst case scenario. It is NOT however, the end of the world as we know it. Why? Because these breaches are obviously fairly small, or they wouldn't be still talking about pumping in water. They'd be taking far more drastic tacts.

2. Radiation CONTAMINATION (NOBODY is using the proper terms) levels outside the plants have remained at relatively low levels. I have yet to see any measurements or data suggesting any real danger to the populace. After 3 weeks, it is beyond ludicrous to continue to assume that the public is at risk. Even with partial meltdown AND a breach, the public is not seriously threatened.

3. The local environment (sealife nearby) may be affected more than I originally thought, but panic is not warrented. These effects would still be 1/100th that of the BP oil spill, and over a much smaller area as well. Specific species may be inedible from the local waters for a while, perhaps a couple of decades.

Bueno and I, throughout this thread, have NEVER tried to portray that there were no problems, or that this was not a disaster, because it is. But the level of fear and outrageous rhetoric based on illogical and irresponsible claims has been more than a little bit ridiculous. If 10 city blocks in Philly burn down, and people claim the whole city's on fire, are you really going to jump on the few people who point out that it's not the whole city, that it's ONLY a few blocks? Are those people REALLY under-selling the problem when most people are jumping on the "the city's burning" bandwagon as espoused by a media with a clear agenda?

Gimme a break.

 

[renesauz]

To clear up the Beta particle thing. Most Betas are easily shielded. That's why you see people heavily clothed, with rubber on feet on feets, when entering highly contaminated areas. The heavy cloth, coupled with rubber on areas they would TOUCH the contamination, is more than adequate to shield from Betas. Betas can do a lot of damage to live cells, but, for the most part, you must have the SOURCE of those betas either on your skin or in your body in order for that to occur.

The idea that Betas are the only concern is, howver, false. Betas come when radionuclide undergo Beta decay. IN Beta decay, a gamma is also released. The protective clothing is virtually useless against those gammas.

The clothing serves another purpose, which is that it prevents CONTAMINATION from building on the persons skin or personal clothing. The protective clothing is removed at the border of the contaminated area, and if donned/removed properly, no contamination leaves with the worker.

When talking about radiation levels, they're talking about gammas. IN most cases (outside the plants), the sources of those gammas (Contamination) are giving off both Betas and gammas. IN virtually every case, those levels of radiation are so low as to not pose a direct risk. IN some specific cases close to the reactors, the risk is not the direct radiation, but the INGESTION of contamination, which would bring Beta sources close to live cells, and keep those sources in close proximity. (Remember, radiation levels are an inverse square based on distance. Obviously, even a weak source a millimter away can provide serious dose, even if it's not measureable from 3 feet away! (This is why I get frustrated by the media fixating on radiation instead of contamination levels.)

IN the end, virtually all the radiation CONTAMINATION reported is only dangerous to the workers if it somehow becomes ingested.