:MERGED: Brady Quinn Thread (1 Viewer)

[Doctor Detroit]

Brilliant concept thread. Terry Bradshaw beat a lot of ranked teams at Louisiana Tech. As did Kurt Warner at N. Iowa. I think Donovan McNabb had some good games vs highly ranked opponents at the Cuse. Ben Rothlisberger was eating up the BCS. Dante Culpepper had a ton of wins vs the big teams at Central Florida. Oh and Steve McNair. McNair led the Braves to a Division one playoff appearance! I could go on forever. ETA: This was from the "Who has Brady Quinn beaten" thread.

All those schools are very comparable to ND

I guess Peyton Manning won't be a very good NFL QB then based on that theory. Nicely done.

Can't find Peyton's game by game stats, but I think the following is more than Quinn ever did:40-9 as a 4 year starter in what was by far the best conference b/w 94-97beat Va Tech in 94 gator bowlSEC champ in 97Orange bowl champ in 97

Would you think it's fair to say Manning entered the NFL as a player who was labeled a guy that couldn't win the big one? I would guess you would knowing that you are a big SEC and CFB fan. I just don't think it translates and makes little difference. NFL is a much more "involved" game albeit not as entertaining.

 

[dparker713]

Brilliant concept thread. Terry Bradshaw beat a lot of ranked teams at Louisiana Tech. As did Kurt Warner at N. Iowa. I think Donovan McNabb had some good games vs highly ranked opponents at the Cuse. Ben Rothlisberger was eating up the BCS. Dante Culpepper had a ton of wins vs the big teams at Central Florida. Oh and Steve McNair. McNair led the Braves to a Division one playoff appearance! I could go on forever. ETA: This was from the "Who has Brady Quinn beaten" thread.

All those schools are very comparable to ND

I guess Peyton Manning won't be a very good NFL QB then based on that theory. Nicely done.

Can't find Peyton's game by game stats, but I think the following is more than Quinn ever did:40-9 as a 4 year starter in what was by far the best conference b/w 94-97beat Va Tech in 94 gator bowlSEC champ in 97Orange bowl champ in 97

Wasn't he 0-4 against Florida?

 

[SofaKings]

Doh. I just looked on nfl.com at the trades link

http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/trades

It was a 2008 1 and this years SECOND

Dallas CLE

God Hipple, move on to another thread.Your a bad combination.

Your dumb and you advertise.

He's just a Wolverine who can't grade a ND player objectively. Lay off him, it's ingrained at an early age.

 

[Irish]

I don't think that Quinn will be a pro bowl type of qb, but he will be a solid starting qb for 10 yrs. I compare him to Eli Manning and look what the G-Men had to give up to get him. I don't think that the Browns overpaid, that is just the going rate to trade back up into the 1st rd. Even though I don't see OT Thomas being an elite LT he still will be solid and might make a few pro bowls. I think Browns fans for once have something to be excited about. Maybe now the Steelers vs Browns games can get back to being a real rivalvry. :(

 

[Tiger Fan]

Brilliant concept thread. Terry Bradshaw beat a lot of ranked teams at Louisiana Tech. As did Kurt Warner at N. Iowa. I think Donovan McNabb had some good games vs highly ranked opponents at the Cuse. Ben Rothlisberger was eating up the BCS. Dante Culpepper had a ton of wins vs the big teams at Central Florida. Oh and Steve McNair. McNair led the Braves to a Division one playoff appearance! I could go on forever. :(ETA: This was from the "Who has Brady Quinn beaten" thread.

All those schools are very comparable to ND

I guess Peyton Manning won't be a very good NFL QB then based on that theory. Nicely done.

Can't find Peyton's game by game stats, but I think the following is more than Quinn ever did:40-9 as a 4 year starter in what was by far the best conference b/w 94-97beat Va Tech in 94 gator bowlSEC champ in 97Orange bowl champ in 97

Would you think it's fair to say Manning entered the NFL as a player who was labeled a guy that couldn't win the big one? I would guess you would knowing that you are a big SEC and CFB fan. I just don't think it translates and makes little difference. NFL is a much more "involved" game albeit not as entertaining.

"Couldn't win THE big one" is alot different from "Couldn't win vs a quality team"

 

[redman]

The main mistake I see critics of the Browns making is that they're focusing only on what the Browns gave up to get Quinn and not what they got. They also seem to assume that all trades are a zero sum game, meaning that one trading partner can only benefit when the other trading partner(s) lose. This is a fallacy.

The Cowboys did indeed make out like bandits with those picks. Good for them. It also bears mentioning that Quinn didn't have any particular value for them.

The Browns, OTOH, desperately needed a QB who they can plausibly try to develop into a long-term starter, and Quinn represented excellent value for them in the low first round. Obviously, if Quinn doesn't pan out, then the critics will howl, but based upon what we know now about Quinn's potential, this was a solid move.

This was a classic win-win.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

The main mistake I see critics of the Browns making is that they're focusing only on what the Browns gave up to get Quinn and not what they got. They also seem to assume that all trades are a zero sum game, meaning that one trading partner can only benefit when the other trading partner(s) lose. This is a fallacy. The Cowboys did indeed make out like bandits with those picks. Good for them. It also bears mentioning that Quinn didn't have any particular value for them. The Browns, OTOH, desperately needed a QB who they can plausibly try to develop into a long-term starter, and Quinn represented excellent value for them in the low first round. Obviously, if Quinn doesn't pan out, then the critics will howl, but based upon what we know now about Quinn's potential, this was a solid move. This was a classic win-win.

Good posting. Cleveland also had to make a move here, because NE would have been more than happy to move out of 24 if Quinn was on the board. Then you are in a potential bidding war. Getting Quinn at 22nd pick money is incredible value.

 

[BGP]

Brilliant concept thread. Terry Bradshaw beat a lot of ranked teams at Louisiana Tech. As did Kurt Warner at N. Iowa. I think Donovan McNabb had some good games vs highly ranked opponents at the Cuse. Ben Rothlisberger was eating up the BCS. Dante Culpepper had a ton of wins vs the big teams at Central Florida. Oh and Steve McNair. McNair led the Braves to a Division one playoff appearance! I could go on forever. ETA: This was from the "Who has Brady Quinn beaten" thread.

All those schools are very comparable to ND

I guess Peyton Manning won't be a very good NFL QB then based on that theory. Nicely done.

Can't find Peyton's game by game stats, but I think the following is more than Quinn ever did:40-9 as a 4 year starter in what was by far the best conference b/w 94-97beat Va Tech in 94 gator bowlSEC champ in 97Orange bowl champ in 97

I've always disagreed with that view. The TEAM was 40-9. The TEAM won those bowl games. Sometimes a team can't win the big game and it is the quarterback's fault. But its not always the quarterback's fault when the team consistently fails to win the big game. If you want to criticize Brady Quinn, discuss his abilities as an individual, not team accomplishments. There are concerns about his accuracy and his deep ball. Valid concerns. But no prospect is perfect. Some argue that, if Quinn gets to work with a professional tutor that can improve his mechanics, his accuracy will improve, and that this is part of developing a young QB.

 

[BGP]

I like looking at the TD / INT ratio. The interception is the worst self-inflicted wound. Good QBs keep INTs under control even when things are going badly for the team. There is no quicker way to the bench than to start throwing picks.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/players/1059...ilay1mh.jxDubYF

Let's look at two losses in big games for the Fighting Irish.

September 16: 47-21 loss to Michigan

First of all, is it Quinn's fault the defense surrendered 47 points? No. How did Quinn fare in the contest himself? Quinn threw 3 TDs and 3 INTs. So even in a game where the TEAM was seriously overmatched, Quinn didn't throw more INTs than TDs.

January 3rd: 41-14 loss to LSU

Was it Quinn's fault the defense surrendered 41 points? No. And again, even when everything is going wrong, Quinn didn't throw more INTs than TDs. He threw 2 each.

 

[BGP]

Personally, JaMarcus Russell is more worrisome in terms of interceptions in big games.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/players/102446

October 7th, FLorida beats LSU 23-10.

Russell threw 1 TD and 3 INTs. You can seriously make a case that Russell's poor play resulted in that loss.

 

[mr blond]

Obviously, Savage and co. think Quinn will develop into a franchise QB to make this trade. A future #1 is always difficult to part with, but based on past deals I don't think the Browns grossly overpaid. Another aspect of this deal that I like is the 20+ million the Browns are saving in guaranteed money. The Browns can use this 2008 savings to sign an elite FA. Even if that doesn't happen, if Quinn develops into the QB the Browns project him to it will be a bargain for the Browns.

 

[Hammered Finz]

Brilliant concept thread. Terry Bradshaw beat a lot of ranked teams at Louisiana Tech. As did Kurt Warner at N. Iowa. I think Donovan McNabb had some good games vs highly ranked opponents at the Cuse. Ben Rothlisberger was eating up the BCS. Dante Culpepper had a ton of wins vs the big teams at Central Florida. Oh and Steve McNair. McNair led the Braves to a Division one playoff appearance! I could go on forever. ETA: This was from the "Who has Brady Quinn beaten" thread.

All those schools are very comparable to ND

I guess Peyton Manning won't be a very good NFL QB then based on that theory. Nicely done.

Can't find Peyton's game by game stats, but I think the following is more than Quinn ever did:40-9 as a 4 year starter in what was by far the best conference b/w 94-97beat Va Tech in 94 gator bowlSEC champ in 97Orange bowl champ in 97

Would you think it's fair to say Manning entered the NFL as a player who was labeled a guy that couldn't win the big one? I would guess you would knowing that you are a big SEC and CFB fan. I just don't think it translates and makes little difference. NFL is a much more "involved" game albeit not as entertaining.

"Couldn't win THE big one" is alot different from "Couldn't win vs a quality team"

Quinn was good at beating the service academies though

 

[BGP]

Obviously, Savage and co. think Quinn will develop into a franchise QB to make this trade. A future #1 is always difficult to part with, but based on past deals I don't think the Browns grossly overpaid. Another aspect of this deal that I like is the 20+ million the Browns are saving in guaranteed money. The Browns can use this 2008 savings to sign an elite FA. Even if that doesn't happen, if Quinn develops into the QB the Browns project him to it will be a bargain for the Browns.

Of course its not set in stone that the Browns won't pick in the first round in 2008. They could always trade a player and/or picks to get back up there.

 

[dparker713]

Brilliant concept thread. Terry Bradshaw beat a lot of ranked teams at Louisiana Tech. As did Kurt Warner at N. Iowa. I think Donovan McNabb had some good games vs highly ranked opponents at the Cuse. Ben Rothlisberger was eating up the BCS. Dante Culpepper had a ton of wins vs the big teams at Central Florida. Oh and Steve McNair. McNair led the Braves to a Division one playoff appearance! I could go on forever. ETA: This was from the "Who has Brady Quinn beaten" thread.

All those schools are very comparable to ND

I guess Peyton Manning won't be a very good NFL QB then based on that theory. Nicely done.

Can't find Peyton's game by game stats, but I think the following is more than Quinn ever did:40-9 as a 4 year starter in what was by far the best conference b/w 94-97beat Va Tech in 94 gator bowlSEC champ in 97Orange bowl champ in 97

Would you think it's fair to say Manning entered the NFL as a player who was labeled a guy that couldn't win the big one? I would guess you would knowing that you are a big SEC and CFB fan. I just don't think it translates and makes little difference. NFL is a much more "involved" game albeit not as entertaining.

"Couldn't win THE big one" is alot different from "Couldn't win vs a quality team"

Quinn was good at beating the service academies though

ND won every game it realistically should have this year, and did the same the year before with the exception of Michigan State. Considering the talent level on LSU, name a team they realistically shouldn't have beaten. USC is about it and they didn't play them.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Vic Carucci's AnalysisThe Browns have achieved the best of both worlds. They landed their franchise quarterback (despite his free fall from upper tier of the first round) and they have a blocker who can help protect him for many years to come. The Browns made an aggressive trade with the Cowboys to put themselves in this position. Was next year's first-round choice too high a price? Not for a franchise quarterback. There is still a long way to go, but for now, the Browns are the front-runners for the distinction of having the most impressive draft.Gil Brandt: When you end up with a starting left tackle and a possibility of having a franchise quarterback in the first round, you might have had one of the great days of all time in draft history. Brady Quinn is probably the most prepared player to come in and play well. He's going to where he wants to be.Pat Kirwan: What's to say about a guy with 95 touchdown passes and more than twice as many yards as JaMarcus Russell? A lot of people thought he was going to go to Cleveland, but at the other pick (No. 3). He'll be happy the first time he drops back and Joe Thomas is blocking for him. It won't surprise me if he's the starter on opening day. The Cleveland fans fought taking Brady Quinn with the third pick, but they embrace him at this position.smile Hipple you're the loser on the "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" show

How ironic with my last post.Only time will tell. But I'm willing to put 20 bucks I am right. Are you? You can create the terms if you want (for me to approve obviously) but I think history will look on this as a horrible trade that keeps the Browns down. I do like the Thomas pick.

Sure I'll bet $20 but I think a third party should come up with the criteria and then we both approve. I'm sure some bright young mind reading this post will be able to come up with something. The only thing is that we may have to wait until next season until Quinn is starting. Are you up for it?

Sure. I been here for years, I think a 2-3 year bet is more appropriate anyway. But I am totally down with this.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I think Hipple decided to bail when I called him on his bluff.

Naw Hipple decided to go to the bar.Posting/checking from the bar on the cell things is too cumbersome.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Domer8 2007, 09:08 PM' post='6682710']

Doh. I just looked on nfl.com at the trades link

http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/trades

It was a 2008 1 and this years SECOND

Dallas CLE

God Hipple, move on to another thread.Your a bad combination.

Your dumb and you advertise.

He's just a Wolverine who can't grade a ND player objectively. Lay off him, it's ingrained at an early age.

I dunno. I'm a lil shocked that Darius Walker is still on the board. And just because he happens to be an ND player, my criticism comes off more 'biting' but I still think that his accuracy will be an issue in the pros. Plus, he will have a lot of pressure on him, much more so that the other tier two quarterbacks...But I do still loathe Lou Holtz, and he is years removed from being a

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I don't think that Quinn will be a pro bowl type of qb, but he will be a solid starting qb for 10 yrs. I compare him to Eli Manning and look what the G-Men had to give up to get him. I don't think that the Browns overpaid, that is just the going rate to trade back up into the 1st rd. Even though I don't see OT Thomas being an elite LT he still will be solid and might make a few pro bowls. I think Browns fans for once have something to be excited about. Maybe now the Steelers vs Browns games can get back to being a real rivalvry.

I think he's got Joey Harrington written all over him. I think he is far more lily to end up like Rick Mirer, Ken Dorsey, or mabye even a David Carr type career. But I don't think he's gonna be going in the first 4 rounds of any FF drafts in his life.

 

[Tiger Fan]

Personally, JaMarcus Russell is more worrisome in terms of interceptions in big games.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/players/102446

October 7th, FLorida beats LSU 23-10.

Russell threw 1 TD and 3 INTs. You can seriously make a case that Russell's poor play resulted in that loss.

Actually IIRC all 3 of those INTS went through LSU WRs hands.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I don't think that Quinn will be a pro bowl type of qb, but he will be a solid starting qb for 10 yrs. I compare him to Eli Manning and look what the G-Men had to give up to get him. I don't think that the Browns overpaid, that is just the going rate to trade back up into the 1st rd. Even though I don't see OT Thomas being an elite LT he still will be solid and might make a few pro bowls. I think Browns fans for once have something to be excited about. Maybe now the Steelers vs Browns games can get back to being a real rivalvry.

see David Carr.

 

[Irish]

I don't think that Quinn will be a pro bowl type of qb, but he will be a solid starting qb for 10 yrs. I compare him to Eli Manning and look what the G-Men had to give up to get him. I don't think that the Browns overpaid, that is just the going rate to trade back up into the 1st rd. Even though I don't see OT Thomas being an elite LT he still will be solid and might make a few pro bowls. I think Browns fans for once have something to be excited about. Maybe now the Steelers vs Browns games can get back to being a real rivalvry.

see David Carr.

Maybe if the Texans had built a good OL to protect Carr it would be a different story.