Merril Hoge gets o\/\/ned (1 Viewer)

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

First, understand that the Nashville Scene is the local, independent, once a week paper. It is quite anti-establishment and irreverent. Anyway, here is what their sportswriter had to say this week.

Nashville Scene Article

To Merril Hoge, ESPN

From your toothless, ####### friends in Tennessee

by Randy Horick

I know you won’t mind if I write a bunch of insulting things about your dreams of citizenship in the reality-based community.

You, of all people, would understand if I suggested that not even the Houston Texans’ front office is as bad a judge of football talent as you are. Or that Rush Limbaugh—that drug-sucking halfwit who suggests that some black quarterbacks are deliberately overrated by our affirmative action media—sounds like Alex Genius Trebek compared to you. Or that you’re the only person standing between Sean Salisbury and the title of Biggest Toxic Waste Dump Masquerading as an NFL Analyst.

I know you won’t take it badly because, after all, bombast is your game. You understand that rhetorical excess is nothing personal, just the common coin of commentary in a crowded media marketplace. It’s nothing personal.

But I’m not writing this to bash you or to suggest, as others have, that you experienced one too many concussions during your playing days with the Steelers. I’m here to offer you a spotlight and a mulligan.

On the air, you’ve said some pretty severe things about Vince Young over the past several months. He is “clearly not ready to step onto the field in the National Football League,” you said. “There are no signs of this guy ever being a bona fide, legitimate quarterback in the NFL,” you said. Vince “lacks anticipation and awareness,” you said. “He can’t run the ball like [Michael] Vick. He can’t get away from people. People run him down and take shots at him.”

Vince’s selection by the Titans, you said, represents an “additional dismantling of an organization based on a bad pick in the first round of a quarterback…. The Titans are stuck with Vince Young for the next three years, and they can’t get rid of him, no matter how much they obviously might want to.”

When Vince began to show flashes of brilliance, you stuck by your earlier pronouncements: “The Titans have done a great job of hiding, not highlighting, their quarterback.”

In light of recent developments—in case you missed it, a four-game winning streak, with increasingly impressive performances by Vince in each one—it seemed only sporting to offer you an opportunity for a do-over, commentary-wise.

Did you notice how no-Vick Vince couldn’t run away from people on his way to the end zone in Houston last Sunday? Since you’ve said that no one who had watched the same videotape you’d seen would draft Vince Young in the first round, I just wanted to make sure you had seen the footage of Vince’s game-ending scamper. (It was on ESPN a bunch.)

We’uns in Tennessee realize there’s probably some explanation why Vince’s touchdown doesn’t prove anything—just like Rob Bironas single-handedly beat Indianapolis with his 60-yard field goal, and just like the Titans won the week before that only because the Giants went collectively stupid. Maybe, on the winning play in Houston, one of Vince’s teammates who scored higher on the Wunderlic test compensated for Vince’s lack of awareness and anticipation by telling him at the appropriate moment to get his skinny, unaware butt down the field for those final 39 yards.

Now, we can watch a lot of football down here with our satellite dishes in mobile home parks, and we don’t need more than 10 bare toes to cipher out that the Titans have gone 6-4 since Jeff Fisher tossed Vince into the fray. But there’s a lot of “expert” stuff we don’t know. Like how, even though it looks like Vince is doing the same things for the Titans that he did for the University of Texas—making ridiculous plays look easy, making everybody around him better through his leadership, and winning games—we’re just not able to see the “game within the game” like you can.

Through our uninformed eyes, you’re starting to look like George Bush spouting like the de-curtained Wizard of Oz about how we’re winning in Iraq. And nobody wants you to look like that. We’d like to get all this mess straightened out.

That’s why I’m inviting you to come down to Nashville. (Bonus info: our airport is served by several major airlines.) Do a live remote for one of your pregame shows. Watch Vince play in person.

If you’d like to eat your earlier words, I’ll buy you some nice beverages at McCabe Pub to wash them down with. If not, you can at least explain to our faces why we just don’t get it that Vince is a bum or a fluke.

So come on, Merril? What do you say? We won’t bite. As everyone in Connecticut knows, we don’t have teeth.

 

[LHUCKS]

Why do Vince Young supporters get so emotionally attached to any criticism of his game?

It's not like Hoge made any personal attacks.

 

[Jous]

I know I'll get slammed for this, but I still think Young is going to end up as somewhat of a bust when all is said and done. Right now he's overcoming mediocre stats with tremendous big plays and winning football games, but I think the league will catch up to him eventually in that regard, and he'll be left as a mediocre cross between Mike Vick and Kordell Stewart.

Mind you, that's just my personal prediction. But as of now, yea, VY looks great.

 

[LHUCKS]

I know I'll get slammed for this, but I still think Young is going to end up as somewhat of a bust when all is said and done. Right now he's overcoming mediocre stats with tremendous big plays and winning football games, but I think the league will catch up to him eventually in that regard, and he'll be left as a mediocre cross between Mike Vick and Kordell Stewart.Mind you, that's just my personal prediction. But as of now, yea, VY looks great.

, although there is a 10 page discussion on this a few threads down.And yes, people will try to slam you...that's what happens in the pool whenever you critique any player...people are invested in certain players and take personal offense to it because they can't seperate the hobby from real life...just the way it is around here.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I don't get emotionally attached to any criticism of his game. I'm just happy that the QB of my favorite team is playing well and they are winning.

 

[Bevo]

Why do Vince Young supporters get so emotionally attached to any criticism of his game?It's not like Hoge made any personal attacks.

Perhaps it is like the Leinart supporters that get so emotionally attached to their perception that Leinart is getting ignored by the media and start threads to pump him up?

 

[Stillers Jr.]

Kordell Young?

 

[LHUCKS]

Why do Vince Young supporters get so emotionally attached to any criticism of his game?It's not like Hoge made any personal attacks.

Perhaps it is like the Leinart supporters that get so emotionally attached to their perception that Leinart is getting ignored by the media and start threads to pump him up?

The two types of threads are not even close in terms of the emotions that get involved.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

what word is FBG censoring there?

 

[protoslacker]

To Merril Hoge, ESPNFrom your toothless, ####### friends in Tennesseeby Randy Horick ..... We won’t bite. As everyone in Connecticut knows, we don’t have teeth.

Squeal like a pig. I didn't know they could read down there, nevermind write.

what word is FBG censoring there?

They are censoring *#*###*ing because its an unnatural act, and illegal in most states.

 

[Bevo]

Why do Vince Young supporters get so emotionally attached to any criticism of his game?It's not like Hoge made any personal attacks.

Perhaps it is like the Leinart supporters that get so emotionally attached to their perception that Leinart is getting ignored by the media and start threads to pump him up?

The two types of threads are not even close in terms of the emotions that get involved.

That is likely because there are few people that are intent on ripping on Leinart with the same unrelenting targeting as we see from a handfull of Vince haters. Say, people like me, that think they both have a good chance of being very good or better QBs if they are allowed to have 2 or 3 years to learn the job.I don't rip on Leinart because I am willing to wait that 2 or 3 years to get a better picture. OTOH, there are a select few people that show up in just about every Vince thread with very little to no more purpose than intentionally stirring the pot and they keep at it until they accomplish their agenda.

 

[commisholio]

what word is FBG censoring there?

believe re-tard-ed...

 

[InTheLoo]

Always thought Hoge was worst analyst ESPN had. Well, at least until Irvin showed up. Has the guy ever been proven correct? When proven wrong, its always a doozy. Rams Offense was a joke 6 years ago, Randy Moss was no better than 20 other receivers, Vince and Leinart shouldnt go in the first round......

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Hoge is getting owned by Vince Young; definitely not by by Randy Horick.

 

[protoslacker]

On a more serious note...

I'm kinda suprised at the vehemence that the TV quarterbacks have taken on Young and Vick. Almost to a man they are disparaging and quick to criticize these guys. Boomer Esiason, Theisman, Jaworski, and the rest seem to have a personal dislike for their style of play.

 

[Futility]

I know I'll get slammed for this, but I still think Young is going to end up as somewhat of a bust when all is said and done. Right now he's overcoming mediocre stats with tremendous big plays and winning football games, but I think the league will catch up to him eventually in that regard, and he'll be left as a mediocre cross between Mike Vick and Kordell Stewart.Mind you, that's just my personal prediction. But as of now, yea, VY looks great.

, although there is a 10 page discussion on this a few threads down.And yes, people will try to slam you...that's what happens in the pool whenever you critique any player...people are invested in certain players and take personal offense to it because they can't seperate the hobby from real life...just the way it is around here.

Are you asking about this particular instance involving the writer? Or generally to all VY fans? You've asked the latter - and received replies - many times.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

I don't get emotionally attached to any criticism of his game. I'm just happy that the QB of my favorite team is playing well and they are winning.

It seems that you are the exception though. I've seen multiple posters on here label some as racists, haters, dumb, etc...-All because they offer differing opinions concerning the talent level of Vince Young. Unfortunately, while some here probably are those things, those with differing opinions are lumped with them. For the same reasons, you most likely are included with the overly-emotional crowd. As a Jaguar fan, I am interested in the happenings of Vince Young and of the Titans. I'd like to know all I can of what is going on up in Nashville. But it seems that every Vince Young thread is full of the same ####. It's getting hard to open up these threads.

 

[Fiddles]

I know I'll get slammed for this, but I still think Young is going to end up as somewhat of a bust when all is said and done. Right now he's overcoming mediocre stats with tremendous big plays and winning football games, but I think the league will catch up to him eventually in that regard, and he'll be left as a mediocre cross between Mike Vick and Kordell Stewart.Mind you, that's just my personal prediction. But as of now, yea, VY looks great.

, although there is a 10 page discussion on this a few threads down.And yes, people will try to slam you...that's what happens in the pool whenever you critique any player...people are invested in certain players and take personal offense to it because they can't seperate the hobby from real life...just the way it is around here.

acting like you dont purposefully try to get a rise out of peoplelhucks =

 

[bostonfred]

On a more serious note...I'm kinda suprised at the vehemence that the TV quarterbacks have taken on Young and Vick. Almost to a man they are disparaging and quick to criticize these guys. Boomer Esiason, Theisman, Jaworski, and the rest seem to have a personal dislike for their style of play.

It's trendy to hate Michael Vick right now. It'll be trendy to love him again soon, too, and then they'll all talk about how great he is. ESPN is a shell of its former self.

 

[David Dodds]

I don't understand the criticism of Vince Young at all. The guy is a rookie. He is surrounded by a pretty horrible team.

And over the last three weeks:

1 QB Young,Vince TEN 3 89 58 630 4 3 26 233 2 1 79.9

2 QB Brees,Drew NO 3 96 64 919 8 0 8 8 0 0 78.8

So while everyone now is saying Brees is in the running for MVP, Vince has been his equal (actually a little better during the same three games). Can he keep it up? Who knows. But as an NFL fan, I am excited to see him doing so well so early. His running style is less likely to get him injured (similar to Daunte Culpepper in my eyes) and he is getting better. You can see the confidence improving in his play.

 

[bjabrad]

It's always fun to see guys with this much athleticism do well but what I don't like is when players start to perform well and then the week before a difficult matchup, some poster will predict that they are overrated. The might or might not be overrated, time will tell, but the timing of predictions like these seems designed for patting yourself on the back when everybody is expecting the guy to have an off week anyway.

 

[cstu]

I don't understand the criticism of Vince Young at all. The guy is a rookie. He is surrounded by a pretty horrible team. And over the last three weeks: 1 QB Young,Vince TEN 3 89 58 630 4 3 26 233 2 1 79.9 2 QB Brees,Drew NO 3 96 64 919 8 0 8 8 0 0 78.8 So while everyone now is saying Brees is in the running for MVP, Vince has been his equal (actually a little better during the same three games). Can he keep it up? Who knows. But as an NFL fan, I am excited to see him doing so well so early. His running style is less likely to get him injured (similar to Daunte Culpepper in my eyes) and he is getting better. You can see the confidence improving in his play.

The criticism is based on the extreme amount of hype over a QB who has played decent but to most observers is still mediocre as a QB. I don't remember the hype being this great when Vick was in the midst of his Pro Bowl 2002 season, in fact I remember a lot of people putting down his passing even then.

 

[AsimoV]

Wow! That is so "anti-establishment" and cool! Awesome! Groovy man! Down with the system!

 

[AsimoV]

I don't understand the criticism of Vince Young at all. The guy is a rookie. He is surrounded by a pretty horrible team. And over the last three weeks: 1 QB Young,Vince TEN 3 89 58 630 4 3 26 233 2 1 79.9 2 QB Brees,Drew NO 3 96 64 919 8 0 8 8 0 0 78.8 So while everyone now is saying Brees is in the running for MVP, Vince has been his equal (actually a little better during the same three games). Can he keep it up? Who knows. But as an NFL fan, I am excited to see him doing so well so early. His running style is less likely to get him injured (similar to Daunte Culpepper in my eyes) and he is getting better. You can see the confidence improving in his play.

The criticism is based on the extreme amount of hype over a QB who has played decent but to most observers is still mediocre as a QB. I don't remember the hype being this great when Vick was in the midst of his Pro Bowl 2002 season, in fact I remember a lot of people putting down his passing even then.

You're comparing Young to Brees???Bad dog!

 

[Ralley Monkeys]

I know I'll get slammed for this, but I still think Young is going to end up as somewhat of a bust when all is said and done. Right now he's overcoming mediocre stats with tremendous big plays and winning football games, but I think the league will catch up to him eventually in that regard, and he'll be left as a mediocre cross between Mike Vick and Kordell Stewart.Mind you, that's just my personal prediction. But as of now, yea, VY looks great.

I'd go with a cross of McNair & Vick myself (eventually). He seems to be the emotional leader of the team like McNair was in TN, though his toughness hasn't been measured yet. While he may lack the pure speed of Vick he has proven to be elusive enough to make plays. Young may not measure up to either of these guys in certain categories, as long as he's putting up the W's that's all that will matter. Although, I think Vince has a promising future ahead of him myself.

 

[Bojang0301]

I'm sorry but race does have something to do with the negative judgement of Vince... that isn't why I get defensive about Vince though I get defensive because here is a player who has the stuff you look for in a player... the stuff you can't define, the stuff where when you watch him you he is destined for greatness because he wants it to happen, and he is the guy who 10 times out of 10 if we're losing the game I want the ball in his hands.

A good friend and I had a pretty in depth discussion about this earlier today. It's not just about raw talent or statistics it's about a swagger and a style. VY is a guy who relishes in moments that make great men great. When the game is on the line he looks at everyone around him and goes "I got this" and then he will take over the game and make it look like nothing. The best tangent we got onto when we had this conversation was ARod in New York. I stated that it takes someone special to play in New York and succeed... and for all of ARod's accomplishments (MVP, Awesome Stats, Highest Salary) I'm sitting at home watching Detroit play and the one player I look forward to seeing everytime is ARod because he completly crumples in situations he should relish in. It's why Jeter is Jeter and why ARod will always be a shadowy figure of failure in NY. You need that swagger in the big city... Nameth had it. :endtangent:

Now it's rediculous to put VY in the hall which I think a lot of people are putting him on that pedistle. All I'm saying is I'm not blind and I know what I see in Young. His performance in the Rose Bowl last year was by far the single best performance I have ever seen from a player. I think that says a lot in football considering it is so different than other sports because of so many players playing at one time. That performance was Michael Jordan-esqe. To me that is the potential VY carries. He has the potential to be the Jordan of football and single-handedly turn the tides of games... and that my friends is not just because he is a fantastic athlete that is because he elevates the play of those around him, he inspires and when you look at him you see the fire of a winner and a man will put everything on his shoulders and make it happen. And I want that on my team.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I don't understand the criticism of Vince Young at all. The guy is a rookie. He is surrounded by a pretty horrible team. And over the last three weeks: 1 QB Young,Vince TEN 3 89 58 630 4 3 26 233 2 1 79.9 2 QB Brees,Drew NO 3 96 64 919 8 0 8 8 0 0 78.8 So while everyone now is saying Brees is in the running for MVP, Vince has been his equal (actually a little better during the same three games). Can he keep it up? Who knows. But as an NFL fan, I am excited to see him doing so well so early. His running style is less likely to get him injured (similar to Daunte Culpepper in my eyes) and he is getting better. You can see the confidence improving in his play.

ummmmm....excuse me???? take a second look at those stats. That is abuse. Playing better than brees??????????? 919yds VS> 630 yds 8 tds VS 4 ZERO INTs VS 3 brees' rating is most certainly NOT 78.8. Seeing as his individual game ratings during that 3 game stretch are 140.8, 92.3, and 131.1 it is a mathematical impossibility to be 78.8.man i cant believe i am the first to call you on this. i hope you bought that stat sheet dinner first before you abused it like that.

 

[diesel7982]

I don't understand the criticism of Vince Young at all. The guy is a rookie. He is surrounded by a pretty horrible team. And over the last three weeks: 1 QB Young,Vince TEN 3 89 58 630 4 3 26 233 2 1 79.9 2 QB Brees,Drew NO 3 96 64 919 8 0 8 8 0 0 78.8 So while everyone now is saying Brees is in the running for MVP, Vince has been his equal (actually a little better during the same three games). Can he keep it up? Who knows. But as an NFL fan, I am excited to see him doing so well so early. His running style is less likely to get him injured (similar to Daunte Culpepper in my eyes) and he is getting better. You can see the confidence improving in his play.

ummmmm....excuse me???? take a second look at those stats. That is abuse. Playing better than brees??????????? 919yds VS> 630 yds 8 tds VS 4 ZERO INTs VS 3 brees' rating is most certainly NOT 78.8. Seeing as his individual game ratings during that 3 game stretch are 140.8, 92.3, and 131.1 it is a mathematical impossibility to be 78.8.man i cant believe i am the first to call you on this. i hope you bought that stat sheet dinner first before you abused it like that.

Good point. Why cant Dodds remember that rushing yards and TDs by Quarterbacks dont count in the NFL?

 

[parasaurolophus]

I don't understand the criticism of Vince Young at all. The guy is a rookie. He is surrounded by a pretty horrible team. And over the last three weeks: 1 QB Young,Vince TEN 3 89 58 630 4 3 26 233 2 1 79.9 2 QB Brees,Drew NO 3 96 64 919 8 0 8 8 0 0 78.8 So while everyone now is saying Brees is in the running for MVP, Vince has been his equal (actually a little better during the same three games). Can he keep it up? Who knows. But as an NFL fan, I am excited to see him doing so well so early. His running style is less likely to get him injured (similar to Daunte Culpepper in my eyes) and he is getting better. You can see the confidence improving in his play.

ummmmm....excuse me???? take a second look at those stats. That is abuse. Playing better than brees??????????? 919yds VS> 630 yds 8 tds VS 4 ZERO INTs VS 3 brees' rating is most certainly NOT 78.8. Seeing as his individual game ratings during that 3 game stretch are 140.8, 92.3, and 131.1 it is a mathematical impossibility to be 78.8.man i cant believe i am the first to call you on this. i hope you bought that stat sheet dinner first before you abused it like that.

Good point. Why cant Dodds remember that rushing yards and TDs by Quarterbacks dont count in the NFL?

further proof of the blind devotion to VY. He LIED about the QB rating. Flat out lied!!!!! Go ahead and throw in VY's rushing numbers. Its still not even close. He still has 2 fewer TDs. Fewer total yards, and 3 more interceptions.VY played IND and NYG at home and Houston on the road. Brees had SF at home and DAL and ATL on the road. Its ridiculous that i have to even point this out.edited to point out VY fumbled also in that stretch.

 

[diesel7982]

I don't understand the criticism of Vince Young at all. The guy is a rookie. He is surrounded by a pretty horrible team. And over the last three weeks: 1 QB Young,Vince TEN 3 89 58 630 4 3 26 233 2 1 79.9 2 QB Brees,Drew NO 3 96 64 919 8 0 8 8 0 0 78.8 So while everyone now is saying Brees is in the running for MVP, Vince has been his equal (actually a little better during the same three games). Can he keep it up? Who knows. But as an NFL fan, I am excited to see him doing so well so early. His running style is less likely to get him injured (similar to Daunte Culpepper in my eyes) and he is getting better. You can see the confidence improving in his play.

ummmmm....excuse me???? take a second look at those stats. That is abuse. Playing better than brees??????????? 919yds VS> 630 yds 8 tds VS 4 ZERO INTs VS 3 brees' rating is most certainly NOT 78.8. Seeing as his individual game ratings during that 3 game stretch are 140.8, 92.3, and 131.1 it is a mathematical impossibility to be 78.8.man i cant believe i am the first to call you on this. i hope you bought that stat sheet dinner first before you abused it like that.

Good point. Why cant Dodds remember that rushing yards and TDs by Quarterbacks dont count in the NFL?

further proof of the blind devotion to VY. He LIED about the QB rating. Flat out lied!!!!! Go ahead and throw in VY's rushing numbers. Its still not even close. He still has 2 fewer TDs. Fewer total yards, and 3 more interceptions.VY played IND and NYG at home and Houston on the road. Brees had SF at home and DAL and ATL on the road. Its ridiculous that i have to even point this out.

Not to say youre a little or :11: or borderline ########, but the 78.8 is the amount of fantasy points, under the commonly used FBG scoring system, that Brees has scored over the last 3 weeks, not his QB rating. Im guessing we won't see you again in this thread.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Young is playing well, but there's absolutely no pressure on him. They knew they weren't going to make the playoffs, so whatever they do is a bonus. I'm sure QBs play loose when they can win or lose and it won't matter.

Maybe he'll continue performing at this level. He's entertaining and I wouldn't mind seeing the Titans compete. I have nothing against them. But let's see how he does when they're 0-0 and expectations are high, and people are talking playoffs. I guarantee that a 1-5 start will bring a whole new set of pressures he didn't have this year. That will tell me a lot more about how he'll do long-term.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I don't understand the criticism of Vince Young at all. The guy is a rookie. He is surrounded by a pretty horrible team. And over the last three weeks: 1 QB Young,Vince TEN 3 89 58 630 4 3 26 233 2 1 79.9 2 QB Brees,Drew NO 3 96 64 919 8 0 8 8 0 0 78.8 So while everyone now is saying Brees is in the running for MVP, Vince has been his equal (actually a little better during the same three games). Can he keep it up? Who knows. But as an NFL fan, I am excited to see him doing so well so early. His running style is less likely to get him injured (similar to Daunte Culpepper in my eyes) and he is getting better. You can see the confidence improving in his play.

ummmmm....excuse me???? take a second look at those stats. That is abuse. Playing better than brees??????????? 919yds VS> 630 yds 8 tds VS 4 ZERO INTs VS 3 brees' rating is most certainly NOT 78.8. Seeing as his individual game ratings during that 3 game stretch are 140.8, 92.3, and 131.1 it is a mathematical impossibility to be 78.8.man i cant believe i am the first to call you on this. i hope you bought that stat sheet dinner first before you abused it like that.

Good point. Why cant Dodds remember that rushing yards and TDs by Quarterbacks dont count in the NFL?

further proof of the blind devotion to VY. He LIED about the QB rating. Flat out lied!!!!! Go ahead and throw in VY's rushing numbers. Its still not even close. He still has 2 fewer TDs. Fewer total yards, and 3 more interceptions.VY played IND and NYG at home and Houston on the road. Brees had SF at home and DAL and ATL on the road. Its ridiculous that i have to even point this out.

Not to say youre a little or :11: or borderline ########, but the 78.8 is the amount of fantasy points, under the commonly used FBG scoring system, that Brees has scored over the last 3 weeks, not his QB rating. Im guessing we won't see you again in this thread.

so this is a thread about fantasy production? my mistake.

 

[David Dodds]

Vince Young is a rookie. I pointed out that fantasy stat line because I am not certain a rookie QB ever was the top producer over a three game period.

No he does not belong in the HOF yet. Nor does Reggie Bush or MJD, etc. But these guys are tearing up the league and that is what people are gushing about.

I just find it hilarious that while people are falling over themselves to give Brees the MVP award (and he is deserving), that Brees actually has worse fantasy stats than ROOKIE Vince Young the last 3 weeks. I am not saying Vince is better or will be better, but you can see why people are excited about him as a prospect. That's quite an accomplishment.

Just like I think the Bush bashers have no case when they only look at yards per carry (and ignore the receiving threat), I think it's wrong to throw out the significant running ability that Vince gives the Titans. And to strap him with the low completion percentage, etc at this stage is pretty funny. He has Drew Bennett, Brandon Jones, Courtney Roby and Bobby Wade as his receivers. That's pretty slim pickens there.

But despite this surrounding cast of bad players, Vince has looked great the last three weeks. So again I don't get the hate. He is tearing up the league right now. It may not continue or this may be a low point and he gets even better. But the hate after three strong performances in a row by a rookie just learning the speed of this game makes little sense to me.

I will also admit that I expected Vince to struggle bigtime in his transition to a pro. I thought the Titans were throwing him to the wolves when they rushed him into service (although I did not doubt he could be better tha a horrible Kerry Collins). But these last three weeks I feel something has clicked with Young. He has IT. He is a leader. You can see the people trying hard with him under center. It will be interesting to watch and see if some people ever give this guy his due (if he doesn't earn the points as a typical stay in the pocket passer).

 

[Irish]

I don't understand the criticism of Vince Young at all. The guy is a rookie. He is surrounded by a pretty horrible team.

And over the last three weeks:

1 QB Young,Vince TEN 3 89 58 630 4 3 26 233 2 1 79.9

2 QB Brees,Drew NO 3 96 64 919 8 0 8 8 0 0 78.8

So while everyone now is saying Brees is in the running for MVP, Vince has been his equal (actually a little better during the same three games). Can he keep it up? Who knows. But as an NFL fan, I am excited to see him doing so well so early. His running style is less likely to get him injured (similar to Daunte Culpepper in my eyes) and he is getting better. You can see the confidence improving in his play.

ummmmm....excuse me???? take a second look at those stats. That is abuse. Playing better than brees??????????? 919yds VS> 630 yds 8 tds VS 4 ZERO INTs VS 3 brees' rating is most certainly NOT 78.8. Seeing as his individual game ratings during that 3 game stretch are 140.8, 92.3, and 131.1 it is a mathematical impossibility to be 78.8.man i cant believe i am the first to call you on this. i hope you bought that stat sheet dinner first before you abused it like that.

Good point. Why cant Dodds remember that rushing yards and TDs by Quarterbacks dont count in the NFL?

further proof of the blind devotion to VY. He LIED about the QB rating. Flat out lied!!!!! Go ahead and throw in VY's rushing numbers. Its still not even close. He still has 2 fewer TDs. Fewer total yards, and 3 more interceptions.VY played IND and NYG at home and Houston on the road. Brees had SF at home and DAL and ATL on the road.

Its ridiculous that i have to even point this out.

edited to point out VY fumbled also in that stretch.

I hope you don't think that SF, Dallas, or Atl are very good against the pass.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

Are we really comparing Brees to Vince Young now? First the comparison was to John Elway - a Hall of Fame QB who took his team to 5 Super Bowls - because of the comeback against the Giants. Now Young is being compared to Brees - who is challenging a passing record that has been held for over 20 years - because he has better fantasy statistics over an arbitrarily chosen three-week span? I like Young, guys ... I hope he succeeds, I really do, but I get the sense that a majority of Young's most fervent supporters are losing their grip on reality here. Can we ease up on this hyperbole and comparing him to other QBs that are way out of his league?

Ni?

 

[Mungo Burrows]

I don't understand the criticism of Vince Young at all. The guy is a rookie. He is surrounded by a pretty horrible team.

And over the last three weeks:

1 QB Young,Vince TEN 3 89 58 630 4 3 26 233 2 1 79.9

2 QB Brees,Drew NO 3 96 64 919 8 0 8 8 0 0 78.8

So while everyone now is saying Brees is in the running for MVP, Vince has been his equal (actually a little better during the same three games). Can he keep it up? Who knows. But as an NFL fan, I am excited to see him doing so well so early. His running style is less likely to get him injured (similar to Daunte Culpepper in my eyes) and he is getting better. You can see the confidence improving in his play.

Anyone else find this comment humorous?

 

[Fiddles]

I just find it hilarious that while people are falling over themselves to give Brees the MVP award (and he is deserving), that Brees actually has worse fantasy stats than ROOKIE Vince Young the last 3 weeks. I am not saying Vince is better or will be better, but you can see why people are excited about him as a prospect. That's quite an accomplishment.

I don't understand why this is hillarious. MVP is not based on weeks 11-14. I understand you are giving props to both guys here and not burying brees but it sounds like you think just because VY is playing strong lately that no one should be talking about Brees being the MVP. Two mutually exclusive topics.Unless you are saying its funny that the people who are praising brees are ignoring VY.

 

[Colin Dowling]

He has Drew Bennett, Brandon Jones, Courtney Roby and Bobby Wade as his receivers. That's pretty slim pickens there.

I will not sit by idle while you disparrage the good name of Courtney Roby....

Are we really comparing Brees to Vince Young now?

No, we aren't. It is an observation based on fantasy performance, and a good one at that.

So while everyone now is saying Brees is in the running for MVP, Vince has been his equal (actually a little better during the same three games). Can he keep it up? Who knows. But as an NFL fan, I am excited to see him doing so well so early. His running style is less likely to get him injured (similar to Daunte Culpepper in my eyes) and he is getting better. You can see the confidence improving in his play.

Anyone else find this comment humorous?

Actually, yes. Culpepper was never the open-field threat Young is.

 

[Slum Lord]

I just find it hilarious that while people are falling over themselves to give Brees the MVP award (and he is deserving), that Brees actually has worse fantasy stats than ROOKIE Vince Young the last 3 weeks

Turns out they just created an "MVP for 3 weeks" award, and VY won it. Brees gets it for the other 13 weeks.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

Are we really comparing Brees to Vince Young now?

No, we aren't. It is an observation based on fantasy performance, and a good one at that.

I guess my point is that the comparison seemed arbitrary to me - it was pointed out that Brees is considered an MVP candidate, yet has been outperformed fantasy-wise by Young in 3 weeks. If it is simply a fantasy analysis over a small sample, then why mention MVP considerations? Brees had an un-Brees-like outing week 13 against SF (186 yards, 1TD). I could take weeks 4-6 and mention that Torry Holt performed better, fantasy-wise, than LaDanian Tomlinson; I still wouldn't put those two players in the same league.Ni~

 

[Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya]

I moved to Tennefee from Norfern Minnefoda a long pime ago. All my teef fell out ath thoon ath I crothed the Maython Dikthon line. I like Vinthe Young. I don' care much for da Merrill Hogg feller, though.

Signed,

Toofleth in Tenneffee

 

[David Dodds]

Can someone show me a three week run where a rookie QB led the league in QB fantasy points? This was and is my point. People are falling over Vince with good reason. He is performing at a very high rate right now. And as a rookie QB that is a major accomplishment. The fact that he doesn't read defenses perfectly, has soft receivers, etc only do more to point out Vince's accomplishments during this period in my opinion.

Haters are going to hate, but it's hard to look at Vince's last three games and not like what you see. He is improving. His team is winning and he is putting up gaudy statistics unlike any other rookie QB. As a fan of the NFL, he is someone I am clearly enjoying watching play the game. Time will tell if he builds upon this success, but I know I wouldn't bet against him.

 

[mr. furley]

can we stop evaluating QBs careers based on a handful of games in their first season?

thanks.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

First off, labeling people who are skeptical of Young as haters is not productive; there is a middle ground and if that is not recognized than none of these discussions will be useful. Just because someone doesn't love Vince Young, that does not mean they hate him. I see people with all sorts of biases judging him, whether they are UT fans, Tenn fans, etc, and it seems obvious to me that there is little objectivity in their analyses. I like Young, as I have said, but I am trying to look at his situation with a little objectivity, something I do not see much of here.

It seems that the discussion has gone from Hoge being owned to whether or not Young is a viable fantasy QB. The article that was posted had nothing to do with either, in my opinion - it was a political rant (heavily left-leaning, I might add) more than anything resembling a football analysis. Only someone with a preconceived bias could agree that Hoge was "owned" by this rant - one game does not an NFL career make. If we are drifting from NFL performance to fantasy performance, then sure - Vince is as viable a starter as players such as Vick.

What I would like to drive home is simply that people should temper their expectations; from what I have seen written about Young recently, from comparisons to Marino, Elway, and Brees, to articles that say he can redefine the position and that he is great for Democracy, etc, I get the sense that if Young doesn't lead the Titans to a 16-0 season next year, break Marino's (or Brees') passing yardage record AND Manning's TD record, then it will be a disappointment. That is the level of hyperbole that I keep seeing.

I joined these forums because I got the sense that the level of discourse was much better than other forums I've seen; there were fewer personal attacks, rants, etc. and the advice and analysis I get here is usually top notch. I don't know what it is about Young that gets people (on both sides) so fired up ... I really don't, but I believe it is lowering the quality of discourse. I personally like the guy - my dad is from Tenn and I root for the Titans when I'm not cheering on my Jets. As an NFL fan, I have thoroughly appreciated this season - I have watched Tomlinson break the TD record and I may watch Brees break Marino's yardage record. There have been more rookies making an impact this year than any other that I can recall - Young is one of the nice stories this year, so far, but I do not think that he can be mentioned alongside guys like Brees and LT yet. I hope to see him do great things with the Titans, but the hyperbolic hysteria surrounding him is getting old.

Ni

 

[LHUCKS]

there were fewer personal attacks, rants, etc. and the advice and analysis I get here is usually top notch. I don't know what it is about Young that gets people (on both sides) so fired up ... I really don't, but I believe it is lowering the quality of discourse.

 

[diesel7982]

there were fewer personal attacks, rants, etc. and the advice and analysis I get here is usually top notch. I don't know what it is about Young that gets people (on both sides) so fired up ... I really don't, but I believe it is lowering the quality of discourse.

Says the guy who doesnt like him because he didnt play in the pac - 10.

 

[John Mamula]

I know I'll get slammed for this, but I still think Young is going to end up as somewhat of a bust when all is said and done. Right now he's overcoming mediocre stats with tremendous big plays and winning football games, but I think the league will catch up to him eventually in that regard, and he'll be left as a mediocre cross between Mike Vick and Kordell Stewart.Mind you, that's just my personal prediction. But as of now, yea, VY looks great.

However, you may be called a racist because you compared him to two black QBs.At least that's what happened to me.

 

[John Mamula]

I don't get emotionally attached to any criticism of his game. I'm just happy that the QB of my favorite team is playing well and they are winning.

It seems that you are the exception though. I've seen multiple posters on here label some as racists, haters, dumb, etc...-All because they offer differing opinions concerning the talent level of Vince Young. Unfortunately, while some here probably are those things, those with differing opinions are lumped with them. For the same reasons, you most likely are included with the overly-emotional crowd.

i hope that the people that threw out those accusations were banned but i'm not holding my breath.

i get warned for telling someone to shut up but someone can call me ignorant and racist and there is no action by the mods.



what can you do.

 

[icehouse]

Damn Hoge, is it that hard to say "I was wrong"?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hoge criticizes Young for not passing in OT

By DAVID BARRON

Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

The first thing we should establish this morning is that, contrary to public belief, ESPN analyst Merril Hoge doesn't hate Vince Young.

"He's an impressive kid," Hoge said. "I think he's a good kid. ... I don't hate Vince Young. I've never said that I hate Vince Young."

The second thing we should establish is that Hoge thinks Young arguably made the wrong decision when he ran for the touchdown that beat the Texans in overtime last Sunday.

We'll pause for a moment for you to laugh, scream, throw items about the room or shake your head at what you might justifiably consider the absurdity of it all.

If you need more time, go to youtube.com and check out the video titled Vince vs. Hoge, a collection of Hoge's recent comments about the Titans quarterback coupled with game footage. It's almost four minutes long. Take your time.

Welcome back. When he checked in Tuesday, Hoge was looking at end zone coaching tape from the Texans-Titans game in preparation for ESPN's NFL Matchup show at 7:30 p.m. Sunday. He was watching with a critical eye, which is his job.

What he saw convinces him that Young could have won the game Sunday with his arm, not his legs. It also reinforces his belief that Young has miles to go before becoming a polished quarterback who can take the Titans to a Super Bowl.

On the overtime play in question, "The guy I'm looking at is the slot receiver, No. 19 (Bobby Wade)," Hoge said. "He runs a great route. If that ball comes out, (Wade) probably scores.

"This says a lot about where (Young) is as a quarterback. He is not sure of coverages and where to throw the football. ... The thing I have said from the start is that he faces a monumental learning curve, and that has not changed."

Young got a boost Sunday, Hoge said, from the Texans' defensive breakdowns. Houston rushed seven players, leaving one-on-one coverage for each of Tennessee's four receivers — a situation called "zero coverage."

When the Titans picked up the blitz, the defense had no deep help.

Hoge isn't demeaning the value of Young's physical skills that contributed to the winning TD. His point is that for Young to be a championship quarterback, he will have to do so as a pocket passer and that his understanding of the game, at this point, is insufficient for him to attain that goal.

"The question is can you win a championship, not can you go 6-7 (the Titans' record)," he said. "I don't think the Titans drafted him to go 8-8. They drafted him to win a championship.

"But for that to happen, it's going to take a significant time. Right now, they're not asking him to win games. They're doing a good job building him mentally and not putting him in bad situations."

Hoge also believes good defenses, such as the Jacksonville Jaguars defense that Young faces Sunday, will not make the same mistakes the Texans, Colts, Giants and Eagles made during the Titans' four-game win streak.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Damn Hoge, is it that hard to say "I was wrong"?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hoge criticizes Young for not passing in OT

By DAVID BARRON

Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

The first thing we should establish this morning is that, contrary to public belief, ESPN analyst Merril Hoge doesn't hate Vince Young.

"He's an impressive kid," Hoge said. "I think he's a good kid. ... I don't hate Vince Young. I've never said that I hate Vince Young."

The second thing we should establish is that Hoge thinks Young arguably made the wrong decision when he ran for the touchdown that beat the Texans in overtime last Sunday.

We'll pause for a moment for you to laugh, scream, throw items about the room or shake your head at what you might justifiably consider the absurdity of it all.

If you need more time, go to youtube.com and check out the video titled Vince vs. Hoge, a collection of Hoge's recent comments about the Titans quarterback coupled with game footage. It's almost four minutes long. Take your time.

Welcome back. When he checked in Tuesday, Hoge was looking at end zone coaching tape from the Texans-Titans game in preparation for ESPN's NFL Matchup show at 7:30 p.m. Sunday. He was watching with a critical eye, which is his job.

What he saw convinces him that Young could have won the game Sunday with his arm, not his legs. It also reinforces his belief that Young has miles to go before becoming a polished quarterback who can take the Titans to a Super Bowl.

On the overtime play in question, "The guy I'm looking at is the slot receiver, No. 19 (Bobby Wade)," Hoge said. "He runs a great route. If that ball comes out, (Wade) probably scores.

"This says a lot about where (Young) is as a quarterback. He is not sure of coverages and where to throw the football. ... The thing I have said from the start is that he faces a monumental learning curve, and that has not changed."

Young got a boost Sunday, Hoge said, from the Texans' defensive breakdowns. Houston rushed seven players, leaving one-on-one coverage for each of Tennessee's four receivers — a situation called "zero coverage."

When the Titans picked up the blitz, the defense had no deep help.

Hoge isn't demeaning the value of Young's physical skills that contributed to the winning TD. His point is that for Young to be a championship quarterback, he will have to do so as a pocket passer and that his understanding of the game, at this point, is insufficient for him to attain that goal.

"The question is can you win a championship, not can you go 6-7 (the Titans' record)," he said. "I don't think the Titans drafted him to go 8-8. They drafted him to win a championship.

"But for that to happen, it's going to take a significant time. Right now, they're not asking him to win games. They're doing a good job building him mentally and not putting him in bad situations."

Hoge also believes good defenses, such as the Jacksonville Jaguars defense that Young faces Sunday, will not make the same mistakes the Texans, Colts, Giants and Eagles made during the Titans' four-game win streak.

Fully 1/8 of the National Football league has managed to make the same mistakes against the Titans for the last month.... Thank goodness this week will be different.