MFL - Blocked FG TD isn't a Special Teams TD? (1 Viewer)

[Deepster]

In my league, you have two Def/ST's (say New England Def/ST and Carolina Def/ST). You can start a mix and match though, if you'd like:

New England ST

Carolina Def

That's exactly what one owner did last night and called me all ticked this morning that the New England blocked FG that was returned for a TD wasn't credited to his New England ST.

The MFL website listed it as a strange play, but didn't give any insight why it was considered Defensive and not ST. Anyone have an explanation on this from past experience?

 

[tangfoot]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.

The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

 

[mcintyre1]

First off, that's a weird way to score. Second, I guess if I had to split Def/ST into two separate entities, I would give points to the ST if that team was kicking a field goal, or returning a kickoff or punt. All other plays (including when that same team is defending any of those three things) would go to the defense. But that's just my gut reaction.

 

[CalBear]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

CBS scores it as a special teams TD.My view on it is, as soon as the ball is kicked, it's a special teams play, and any TD scored from that point should count as ST, if you have split ST/D. If you run a fake and throw an INT returned for a TD, that's a defensive TD.

 

[MG345]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

CBS scores it as a special teams TD.My view on it is, as soon as the ball is kicked, it's a special teams play, and any TD scored from that point should count as ST, if you have split ST/D. If you run a fake and throw an INT returned for a TD, that's a defensive TD.

I think it is actually once the ball is kicked past the line of scrimmage, it becomes a ST plays. Before that, it is defensive.

 

[tangfoot]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

CBS scores it as a special teams TD.My view on it is, as soon as the ball is kicked, it's a special teams play, and any TD scored from that point should count as ST, if you have split ST/D. If you run a fake and throw an INT returned for a TD, that's a defensive TD.

You can organize the scoring of your league any way you want, but for leagues that split out D and ST, the more common way to do it is as I described.

 

[Max Power]

That is a strange way to score. Are points scored against that unit's special teams counted against the special teams or the defense?

It was a specials teams play, but since the D was on the field at the time...I has to be a defensive TD.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.

The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

I love when people say "Not really too hard to grasp" right after they say something that is completely wrong.

 

[CalBear]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

CBS scores it as a special teams TD.My view on it is, as soon as the ball is kicked, it's a special teams play, and any TD scored from that point should count as ST, if you have split ST/D. If you run a fake and throw an INT returned for a TD, that's a defensive TD.

You can organize the scoring of your league any way you want, but for leagues that split out D and ST, the more common way to do it is as I described.

As I said, CBS, which is "more common" than MFL, scores it as a special teams TD, and in fact, provides no mechanism to score it as a defensive TD (other than manually adjusting scores after the fact).

 

[bulger2holt]

There is nothing dumber than a QB throwing a pick-6 and your defense/ST gets penalized. They weren't even on the field.

 

[TommyGilmore]

I think it is actually once the ball is kicked past the line of scrimmage, it becomes a ST plays. Before that, it is defensive.

This is the correct answer, and this is likely what MFL goes by.

 

[GregR_2]

...You can organize the scoring of your league any way you want, ...

This is the best answer. MFL scored it the way your league set it up to have it scored. The scoring category for it on MFL is "Number of Blocked FG TDs".You can chose this scoring category under Team Defense. You can choose it under Team Special Teams. You can choose it for individual player positions if you wish. Whichever you set it up for gets points for it, whichever you didn't set it up for don't get points for it.

 

[GregR_2]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

CBS scores it as a special teams TD.My view on it is, as soon as the ball is kicked, it's a special teams play, and any TD scored from that point should count as ST, if you have split ST/D. If you run a fake and throw an INT returned for a TD, that's a defensive TD.

You can organize the scoring of your league any way you want, but for leagues that split out D and ST, the more common way to do it is as I described.

As I said, CBS, which is "more common" than MFL, scores it as a special teams TD, and in fact, provides no mechanism to score it as a defensive TD (other than manually adjusting scores after the fact).

I agree, it's a shortcoming of CBS if they don't have the flexibility to let leagues decide for themselves what events get scored for each position.

 

[CA_7]

...You can organize the scoring of your league any way you want, ...

This is the best answer. MFL scored it the way your league set it up to have it scored. The scoring category for it on MFL is "Number of Blocked FG TDs".You can chose this scoring category under Team Defense. You can choose it under Team Special Teams. You can choose it for individual player positions if you wish. Whichever you set it up for gets points for it, whichever you didn't set it up for don't get points for it.

 

[tangfoot]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.

The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

I love when people say "Not really too hard to grasp" right after they say something that is completely wrong.

You get offensive points for rush yardage, return yardage, receptions, etc...

You get defensive points for sacks, tackles, blocked punts, etc...

What part of that is "completely wrong"?

 

[TommyGilmore]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.

The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

I love when people say "Not really too hard to grasp" right after they say something that is completely wrong.

You get offensive points for rush yardage, return yardage, receptions, etc...

You get defensive points for sacks, tackles, blocked punts, etc...

What part of that is "completely wrong"?

Scenario: fumble on a punt return is returned for a touchdown. Do you get offensive points for that?Because it's absolutely a Special Teams play, and you claim that Special Teams are an offensive category.

 

[Flash]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.

The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

CBS scores it as a special teams TD.My view on it is, as soon as the ball is kicked, it's a special teams play, and any TD scored from that point should count as ST, if you have split ST/D. If you run a fake and throw an INT returned for a TD, that's a defensive TD.

This is the correct way it should be scored. Any league that does it any other way is just wrong.

 

[Flash]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

CBS scores it as a special teams TD.My view on it is, as soon as the ball is kicked, it's a special teams play, and any TD scored from that point should count as ST, if you have split ST/D. If you run a fake and throw an INT returned for a TD, that's a defensive TD.

You can organize the scoring of your league any way you want, but for leagues that split out D and ST, the more common way to do it is as I described.

So then in your view, there is no thing as Special Teams scores? If there are, what constitutes a ST score?

 

[tangfoot]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.

The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

I love when people say "Not really too hard to grasp" right after they say something that is completely wrong.

You get offensive points for rush yardage, return yardage, receptions, etc...

You get defensive points for sacks, tackles, blocked punts, etc...

What part of that is "completely wrong"?

Scenario: fumble on a punt return is returned for a touchdown. Do you get offensive points for that?Because it's absolutely a Special Teams play, and you claim that Special Teams are an offensive category.

In fantasy football terms, the ST is the team receiving the ball. The kicking team is on Defense. It's a defensive TD.Equally, if the receiving team strips the ball back from the D and returns it for their own TD (the dreaded TWO-fumbles-in-one-play play), it is ALSO a defensive TD. They stopped being a ST when they lost possession, and then became the defense.

 

[tangfoot]

Quick answer: Special Teams is an OFFENSIVE category. You are credited for return yards, etc.The TD was not scored by the offensive return team, it was scored by the DEFENSE. Not really too hard to grasp.

CBS scores it as a special teams TD.My view on it is, as soon as the ball is kicked, it's a special teams play, and any TD scored from that point should count as ST, if you have split ST/D. If you run a fake and throw an INT returned for a TD, that's a defensive TD.

You can organize the scoring of your league any way you want, but for leagues that split out D and ST, the more common way to do it is as I described.

So then in your view, there is no thing as Special Teams scores? If there are, what constitutes a ST score?

A ST score is a kickoff TD or a punt TD. ONLY. A fake field goal thrown for a TD is an offensive score.Any turnover returned for a TD is a defensive score.Am I simplifying this too much?

 

[Insein]

The best answer is, why would you play with a ST and defense as 2 separate entities? That just sounds like a headache waiting to happen. If you have that scoring system, expect many long tuesdays figuring out what happened.

 

[TommyGilmore]

A ST score is a kickoff TD or a punt TD. ONLY. A fake field goal thrown for a TD is an offensive score.Any turnover returned for a TD is a defensive score.Am I simplifying this too much?

It's not that you're simplifying it too much; it's that you're wrong.

 

[tangfoot]

A ST score is a kickoff TD or a punt TD. ONLY. A fake field goal thrown for a TD is an offensive score.Any turnover returned for a TD is a defensive score.Am I simplifying this too much?

It's not that you're simplifying it too much; it's that you're wrong.

There's no right or wrong here, really. It's all in how your league settings are configured. For the sake of argument: Let's say that the fake FG play is run and goes for a TD. Who gets dinged for the points scored on that play? The opposing ST or the D?

 

[The_Wolfman]

It just goes against common sense. What unit was out on the field when the TD was scored? Special teams. This is like fantasy football's version of the "process of the catch" rule.

 

[TommyGilmore]

A ST score is a kickoff TD or a punt TD. ONLY. A fake field goal thrown for a TD is an offensive score.Any turnover returned for a TD is a defensive score.Am I simplifying this too much?

It's not that you're simplifying it too much; it's that you're wrong.

There's no right or wrong here, really. It's all in how your league settings are configured. For the sake of argument: Let's say that the fake FG play is run and goes for a TD. Who gets dinged for the points scored on that play? The opposing ST or the D?

Per the NFL, that would be a regular offensive play.However, there are several additional TD scenarios that would be considered Special Teams TDs, such as a fumble return AFTER a kickoff, or a blocked kick return (if the kick passed the line of scrimmage).Of course, every fantasy league can score these TDs any way they want. But if your goal is to emulate the NFL, then ANY TD after a kick (if it passes the LOS) is technically a Special Teams TD.

 

[CalBear]

The best answer is, why would you play with a ST and defense as 2 separate entities? That just sounds like a headache waiting to happen. If you have that scoring system, expect many long tuesdays figuring out what happened.

It's not hard at all. And the reason to do it is so your fantasy defenses are actually good defenses, rather than bad defenses that got lots of kick return yards because the team lost 48-10.

 

[Insein]

The best answer is, why would you play with a ST and defense as 2 separate entities? That just sounds like a headache waiting to happen. If you have that scoring system, expect many long tuesdays figuring out what happened.

It's not hard at all. And the reason to do it is so your fantasy defenses are actually good defenses, rather than bad defenses that got lots of kick return yards because the team lost 48-10.

To each his own. Count me out.

 

[GregR_2]

If I remember correctly, Footballguys has actual articles devoted to this topic from past years.

For the OP... people here can sit and argue until they are blue in the face (which is a very distinct possibility given the topic)... but in the end the answer for you is your league needs to clearly define how they want to score things and then go make their scoring rules in MFL match. It really doesn't matter if people agree in this thread, what matters is that your league agree on how it will be scored.

 

[GregR_2]

It just goes against common sense. What unit was out on the field when the TD was scored? Special teams. This is like fantasy football's version of the "process of the catch" rule.

Might as well join the argument while I wait on a job to finish.Problem with using this as a criteria is how do you tell what unit was on the field? Is it the group of players? If so, what happens if the regular defense stays out on a 4th and 1 with a safety deep in case they really do punt? What if it's a mixed unit... they do the same but instead of a safety they put their regular punt returner in? What if the offense comes out on 4th down and the quarterback does a pooch kick? It's the offense out there as a unit, but I don't think anyone could call a play with an actual punt not a special teams play. What about when Doug Flutie as a QB does a drop kick for a FG?You also have the same problem if you try to go by the formation being used. You can punt out of a shotgun snap. You can return a punt out of a 4-3 defense. And if that is your measure, how exactly do you intend to enforce it/score it? None of the fantasy websites have the ability to tell you what group of players were on the field, or what formation. Is your commish going to obtain video of each game there is a questionable play and write down the numbers of the players and compare it to some master list to tell him what unit that is? Just doesn't seem very feasible.Probably the most clear cut, simplest method used is, "If a kick actually takes place it is a special teams play." That's pretty inarguable, but again you're still stuck with you may have a fantasy site that doesn't follow that differentiation. This is one reason I like MFL. They don't worry about the unit on the field or anything, they just tell you what occurred. The play in question this time was indisputably a blocked FG return touchdown. Regardless of the unit on the field, the formation, or anything else. I don't think anyone can argue that is not the correct classification for it. So now you just need to decide what unit should get credit for such a play, regardless of any other details like if you had 10 offensive lineman and a kicker making the FG or you had the medical staff in on defense.

 

[The_Wolfman]

It just goes against common sense. What unit was out on the field when the TD was scored? Special teams. This is like fantasy football's version of the "process of the catch" rule.

Might as well join the argument while I wait on a job to finish.Problem with using this as a criteria is how do you tell what unit was on the field? Is it the group of players? If so, what happens if the regular defense stays out on a 4th and 1 with a safety deep in case they really do punt? What if it's a mixed unit... they do the same but instead of a safety they put their regular punt returner in? What if the offense comes out on 4th down and the quarterback does a pooch kick? It's the offense out there as a unit, but I don't think anyone could call a play with an actual punt not a special teams play. What about when Doug Flutie as a QB does a drop kick for a FG?You also have the same problem if you try to go by the formation being used. You can punt out of a shotgun snap. You can return a punt out of a 4-3 defense. And if that is your measure, how exactly do you intend to enforce it/score it? None of the fantasy websites have the ability to tell you what group of players were on the field, or what formation. Is your commish going to obtain video of each game there is a questionable play and write down the numbers of the players and compare it to some master list to tell him what unit that is? Just doesn't seem very feasible.Probably the most clear cut, simplest method used is, "If a kick actually takes place it is a special teams play." That's pretty inarguable, but again you're still stuck with you may have a fantasy site that doesn't follow that differentiation. This is one reason I like MFL. They don't worry about the unit on the field or anything, they just tell you what occurred. The play in question this time was indisputably a blocked FG return touchdown. Regardless of the unit on the field, the formation, or anything else. I don't think anyone can argue that is not the correct classification for it. So now you just need to decide what unit should get credit for such a play, regardless of any other details like if you had 10 offensive lineman and a kicker making the FG or you had the medical staff in on defense.

You certainly raise some valid points, but my response was more directed towards the specific situation that the OP mentioned. In that instance it was clearly the special teams unit out on the field, so I have a hard time seeing how the defense gets credit for those points. Just my $.02