MFL glitch - Illegal Lineup issue (1 Viewer)

[Ariakis]

An owner in a dyansty league made up of mostly FBG members did not submit a lineup until Sunday morning. His week 13 lineup had Hines Ward and Mendenhall active. On Sunday morning, his live scoring said he had 9.2 combined points. However, because he did not submit a lineup, MFL's gui does not consider these players "locked into his starting lineup".

The net result is this owner replaced Mendenhall's 7.0 after he played with Reggie Bush who had a big game and will get Crabtree tonight instead of the 2.1 from Hines Ward.

The Commish of these long-time leagues is as of now going to let this "free look" stand rather than enforce a lock of players who had already played remaining in this owner's lineup.

His week 13 lineup had no injured players and had he not submitted it, it would have matched pretty closely with FBG's projections of who to start to maximize point potential once Hines was announced as a starter.

You can absolutely bet that had Mendenhall gotten the 16+ he was projected to get and Ward got his usual 8-12 that he simply would not have submitted a lineup on Sunday to remove them with other options.

It should be noted that this league format allows waivers after Thursday's games with the caveat that if you pick up a player who already played, the Commish will reverse the transaction. I feel the same should apply here, with the Commish performing a lock just the same way.

I may still win tonight but this free look appears to be a 20 point swing. What is the board consensus on this?

http://www3.myfantasyleague.com/2009/home/16129

 

[NoCheese]

Major loophole that should be fixed. Not much you can do now except pray you hold on. Think it's pretty brutal that he did get the free look. Wow.

 

[Ariakis]

Major loophole that should be fixed. Not much you can do now except pray you hold on. Think it's pretty brutal that he did get the free look. Wow.

I've called for a league vote. There is precident that certain things get corrected mid-year at Commish discretion.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

If Mendenhall/Ward had good games, could he have used them? In all of my MFL leagues, once a game starts, if you havent checked a player into your lineup, you can't use them.

 

[LittlePhatty]

Lots of Thursday games have been played already this season and this rule is just now being examined?

The commish dropped the ball here.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

this loophole was discovered in the MOX league Im in mid season.

 

[fatness]

I may still win tonight but this free look appears to be a 20 point swing. What is the board consensus on this?

http://www3.myfantasyleague.com/2009/home/16129

That you overreacted, thinking you were going to lose. You called out another league member for cheating when in fact he did what was allowed. That guy's been in the league since the start of it I believe, just like you and I have. And you blasted off and accused him of cheating. The rules need to be changed in the offseason. This has likely affected others besides you, but you want it changed just for your benefit right now.

edited to add: I see you now accused the commissioner of collusion on this one. Nice move. For those who don't know, ravnzfan is the commish of that league and all MOX leagues.

 

[Ariakis]

If Mendenhall/Ward had good games, could he have used them? In all of my MFL leagues, once a game starts, if you havent checked a player into your lineup, you can't use them.

Had Mendenhall and Ward had good games he could have indeed kept their scores simply by not submitting any lineup with no penalty.

 

[Ariakis]

I may still win tonight but this free look appears to be a 20 point swing. What is the board consensus on this?

http://www3.myfantasyleague.com/2009/home/16129

That you overreacted, thinking you were going to lose. You called out another league member for cheating when in fact he did what was allowed. That guy's been in the league since the start of it I believe, just like you and I have. And you blasted off and accused him of cheating. The rules need to be changed in the offseason. This has likely affected others besides you, but you want it changed just for your benefit right now.

You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine. I am asking for more opinions. For whatever reason your opinion is that taking advantage of a known bug in the MFL gui to gain a free look is not cheating. Had his players had good games he would NOT have submitted a lineup to lose their output just to change his defense on Sunday.

 

[goldenchild]

Major loophole that should be fixed. Not much you can do now except pray you hold on. Think it's pretty brutal that he did get the free look. Wow.

I've called for a league vote. There is precident that certain things get corrected mid-year at Commish discretion.

Problem with a league vote at this stage, is that there is a high risk for conflict of interest (i.e. Teams that don't like other teams, Teams that favor another team, etc).

 

[daveR]

I don't see where there's even room for discussion. NO WAY do you EVER get to submit a provisional, non-performance line-up. In fact, I don't see how any website should even allow this as an option.

 

[Ernol]

If Mendenhall/Ward had good games, could he have used them? In all of my MFL leagues, once a game starts, if you havent checked a player into your lineup, you can't use them.

Had Mendenhall and Ward had good games he could have indeed kept their scores simply by not submitting any lineup with no penalty.

That is not how I understand MOX rules work. Since Mendenhall and Ward were not entered prior to their games, even if they had great scores, they could NOT be used. The Commish would remove them from the lineup and replace them with players going on Sunday which were the highest projected player on FBG. A good way to handle it I think. Here are two excerpts from the message board in one of the MOX leagues last year from the commish:"if no lineup is entered by 1PM eastern Sunday, prior weeks lineup will be used....any players involved in games that kick before Sunday 1PM eastern will need to be entered prior to kickoff of that players game""there are no "free looks"....I've adjusted the settings so that the system DOES NOT submit a lineup for you---if a lineup is not submitted by 1PM Sunday, I'll manualy enter the previous weeks lineup after kick off of the Sunday games. Any player going in a game prior to 1PM Sunday(as in Thurs or Sat) has to be entered to be used---I understand how AC could have previously seen this as "getting a free look" at the Thurs performance. If a player from the previous week goes on Thurs, they are "locked out" from being used in a lineup entered Sunday and we would treat this the same as if a "bye week" player were left in from the previous week---I would enter the highest projected player from FBG's site at the position"

 

[fatness]

I don't see where there's even room for discussion. NO WAY do you EVER get to submit a provisional, non-performance line-up. In fact, I don't see how any website should even allow this as an option.

There was no lineup submission made by the owner until Sunday.

 

[fatness]

That is not how I understand MOX rules work. Since Mendenhall and Ward were not entered prior to their games, even if they had great scores, they could NOT be used. The Commish would remove them from the lineup and replace them with players going on Sunday which were the highest projected player on FBG. A good way to handle it I think. Here are two excerpts from the message board in one of the MOX leagues last year from the commish:"if no lineup is entered by 1PM eastern Sunday, prior weeks lineup will be used....any players involved in games that kick before Sunday 1PM eastern will need to be entered prior to kickoff of that players game""there are no "free looks"....I've adjusted the settings so that the system DOES NOT submit a lineup for you---if a lineup is not submitted by 1PM Sunday, I'll manualy enter the previous weeks lineup after kick off of the Sunday games. Any player going in a game prior to 1PM Sunday(as in Thurs or Sat) has to be entered to be used---I understand how AC could have previously seen this as "getting a free look" at the Thurs performance. If a player from the previous week goes on Thurs, they are "locked out" from being used in a lineup entered Sunday and we would treat this the same as if a "bye week" player were left in from the previous week---I would enter the highest projected player from FBG's site at the position"

Thank you.

 

[Holy Roller]

Not a fan of what happened on this. I agree with Ariakis that it seems like an unfair loophole---and needs to be addressed by the league. From reading the message board, it looks like it is.

However I don't agree with his blatant accusations of not only the other owner, but specifically of Steve. As part of multiple Misfits leagues, I have always found him to be a VERY good commish. While this particular rule needs to be clarified, I trust that Steve will handle it with the league's best interests in mind. Good luck with it, but please try to keep the personal insults to the other owner and commish out of it.

 

[harryhood]

This came up a couple weeks ago in my league and Steve handled it very well. He realizes a flaw in the Misfits setup and has said it will be changed next year. Good commish doesnt change things mid-season and he has owned up to it, I am sure more than once.

Date Sun Nov 29 11:45:52 a.m. ET 2009 this is correct...last week's l/u is usedto be clear---there has been alot of grief about this clause that allows an owner to 'monitor' the results of a player going Thurs, then determine if last weeks l/u will be used or if another l/u w/o the Thurs player will be submittedclearly Rodgers would start for the Fort--I don't doubt thatbeginning next season, we will NOT be allowing a Thurs player to be enterd this way---it will be the sole responsibility of owners to get Thurs players entered PRIOR to kickoff of those games if there is another option available on the bench...simply, there is too big a loophole in our current setup

 

[fatness]

Current league posting on this matter by the commisioner (ravnzfan, for those not aware):

this is where everyone is missing the point...

I have not been allowing this 'free look' @Thurs players---I have been affected by this also by not having HMiller in my HP3 lineup and losing his 15.9 for Caddy's 1+ points...and I'm down 14 and change

the system showed Ward + Mendy as IN because the system shows last weeks players once this weeks games start...

but had those players scored 50 each and Herd tried to include them, or just let the lineup ride, I would have overturned it, putting in the highest rated players still on the bench

I can not put this any plainer....

 

[gregjcross]

I always knew Thursday games and subsequent transactions after their kick off, such as line up changes, cuts or pick ups, would cause havoc.

Edited after reading the lower posts, im sure some leagues have these auto systems, its still seems like bad business.

An owner in MOX2 did not submit a lineup until Sunday morning. His week 13 lineup had Hines Ward and Mendenhall active. On Sunday morning, his live scoring said he had 9.2 combined points. However, because he did not submit a lineup, MFL's gui does not consider these players "locked into his starting lineup".

The net result is this owner replaced Mendenhall's 7.0 after he played with Reggie Bush who had a big game and will get Crabtree tonight instead of the 2.1 from Hines Ward.

The Commish of these long-time Misfits leagues is as of now going to let this "free look" stand rather than enforce a lock of players who had already played remaining in this owner's lineup.

His week 13 lineup had no injured players and had he not submitted it, it would have matched pretty closely with FBG's projections of who to start to maximize point potential once Hines was announced as a starter.

You can absolutely bet that had Mendenhall gotten the 16+ he was projected to get and Ward got his usual 8-12 that he simply would not have submitted a lineup on Sunday to remove them with other options.

It should be noted that the Misfits format allows waivers after Thursday's games with the caveat that if you pick up a player who already played, the Commish will reverse the transaction. I feel the same should apply here, with the Commish performing a lock just the same way.

I may still win tonight but this free look appears to be a 20 point swing. What is the board consensus on this?

http://www3.myfantasyleague.com/2009/home/16129

 

[ravnzfan]

If Mendenhall/Ward had good games, could he have used them? In all of my MFL leagues, once a game starts, if you havent checked a player into your lineup, you can't use them.

This is our setting as well, Bloom--will discuss a bit more @length in a momentHi everyone, sorry to be so late to the discussion here...I have been doing as much early legwork as I could in determining our week 15 matchups, for 17 Playoff semi-finals as well as 17 Tidy Bowl semi's...and also answer the barage of posts on my MOX-II site, where things this morning have been "active"

I understand Ariakas is upset by what he thought were the case, and what is actually the case, regarding lineup submission...(keep in mind our leagues started in 2002, before the advent of a 3rd Thanksgiving Day game and additional Thurs/Saturday games)

while not word-for-word from the rules, how we handle lineups:

--lineups need to be entered by 1PM eastern Sunday, and players going 'later' (4PM, SNF or MNF) can be changed for any other player whose game has not started after 1PM

--if no l/u is entered by an owner, the previous weeks l/u is used

--for Thanksgiving games, any players going must be entered prior to kick to be used that week

if an owner did not enter a player going Thanksgiving Day prior to kick, he was OUT

if an owner tried to enter a lineup later that weekend w/a player whose game has already started, he was locked OUT

if a lineup is not entered and the previous week's lineup included a player on BYE, that player is replaced w/an active one, as determined by the FBG's Player Rankings that week and using our scoring system

fast forward to this past weekend, when an owner had used Mendy and Ward in week 13 lineup...and did not enter a lineup prior to the Thurs nite games

once the Thurs nite games kicked, the scores for those players showed up on MFL site--again, NOT entered by the owner and not eligible to be used, regardless of their outcome

the owner entered a lineup on Sunday 12:15 eastern, replacing Mendy w/RBush and Ward w/Crabtree

I receive an email from Ariakas 4:35PM Sunday afternoon stating that what the owner did was illegal, that he got a "free look" and decided "to pull those guys" and enter Bush + Crabtree

well, that isn't quite accurate...because the owner DID NOT enter those players, they were OUT--just as if it were Thanksgiving....he would not have been able to "click them IN" Sunday, because the game had already started

and had the players done well and the owner tried to "leave 'em in" by claiming "I did get to enter a l/u, so last weeks had to used", I would have treated them as 'bye week players' and pulled them for the 2 highest rated players @the position off the bench---after all, there are no "free looks"

and to cement our procedure and how it applies "to all":

I failed to enter a Playoff lineup in our HP-3 league--a league that awards TE's 2/ppr--and where Heath Miller started every week other than his bye week for me this year...

...because I must be consistent w/how we deal w/these issues, my lineup for this week DOES NOT have HMiller in it (as much as I could use his 15.90 pts), as I replaced him w/Caddy and his 1pt-n-change on Friday morning

because Miller was not entered by the owner prior to kick Thursday, he does not score

because Mendy + Ward were not entered by their owner in MOX-II prior to kick, they do not score

we good here?

 

[jeter23]

The easy way to handle this is to not have the lineups carry over from week to week. This can allow owners to get lazy and just keep the same lineup from one week to the next.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

I play in a couple of these MOX leagues, along wit a few on CBS (where I am commish).

While Steve is a great Commish, I find this setup issue at best archiac.

#1 In all the CBS leagues that I am in, the active lineup from the prior week automatically carries over to the next week unless changes are made by the owner. Once a game is played (be it Thurs, Saturday or 1pm Sunday) a player's status (active vs inactive) can never be changed. As Commish in these leagues I spend ZERO time looking back at lineups and comparing to FBG projections and have had ZERO problems. If "dead" owners aren't updating their lineups than they are removed from the league. No babysitting.

#2 The settings in the MOX leagues require an owner to resubmit each week the same players before each and every game. Also, when you drop a player (say your 1 defense) and get someone via Waivers the added player is not activated (as it is on CBS). Becomes a hassle constantly neeeding to double check lineups, etc and the Commish shouldn't have to spend ANY time on this.

My $0.02. Anyway, if MFL is as great a system as most tout it to be I'm sure that the setup can be changed to the way that my CBS leagues run and thus requiire no Commish monitoring and the owner in this case would simply have been stuck with Mendy/Ward.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

because Mendy + Ward were not entered by their owner in MOX-II prior to kick, they do not score

I'm confused about one thing. If you allow the system to carry over the previous week's lineup if one isn't entered, why wouldn't Mendy and Ward be considered in their starting lineup as a carryover from the previous week? Sounds to me like that's the easiest and best way to handle this.

 

[fatness]

I understand Ariakas is upset by what he thought were the case, and what is actually the case, regarding lineup submission...(keep in mind our leagues started in 2002, before the advent of a 3rd Thanksgiving Day game and additional Thurs/Saturday games)

One suggestion I'll make here and I'll also make on the MOX-II league board is to set up an overall discussion site for all MOX league members. It should run year round and continue from year to year. Issues like this could be addressed the first time they happened in any MOX league, rather than have each separate MOX league go through their own learning process. It would facilitate getting information out there for all, let everyone know of problems and solutions as early as possible, etc.

 

[heckmanm]

#1 In all the CBS leagues that I am in, the active lineup from the prior week automatically carries over to the next week unless changes are made by the owner. Once a game is played (be it Thurs, Saturday or 1pm Sunday) a player's status (active vs inactive) can never be changed. As Commish in these leagues I spend ZERO time looking back at lineups and comparing to FBG projections and have had ZERO problems. If "dead" owners aren't updating their lineups than they are removed from the league. No babysitting.

We use Synsport and get basically the same effect. Prior weeks lineups carry over until changed, and a player's status (IN or OUT) is locked when his game starts. We also have penalties for failure to submit lineups, ranging from draft position penalties to removal of the league.

 

[Topes]

If Mendenhall/Ward had good games, could he have used them? In all of my MFL leagues, once a game starts, if you havent checked a player into your lineup, you can't use them.

This is our setting as well, Bloom--will discuss a bit more @length in a momentHi everyone, sorry to be so late to the discussion here...I have been doing as much early legwork as I could in determining our week 15 matchups, for 17 Playoff semi-finals as well as 17 Tidy Bowl semi's...and also answer the barage of posts on my MOX-II site, where things this morning have been "active"

I understand Ariakas is upset by what he thought were the case, and what is actually the case, regarding lineup submission...(keep in mind our leagues started in 2002, before the advent of a 3rd Thanksgiving Day game and additional Thurs/Saturday games)

while not word-for-word from the rules, how we handle lineups:

--lineups need to be entered by 1PM eastern Sunday, and players going 'later' (4PM, SNF or MNF) can be changed for any other player whose game has not started after 1PM

--if no l/u is entered by an owner, the previous weeks l/u is used

--for Thanksgiving games, any players going must be entered prior to kick to be used that week

if an owner did not enter a player going Thanksgiving Day prior to kick, he was OUT

if an owner tried to enter a lineup later that weekend w/a player whose game has already started, he was locked OUT

if a lineup is not entered and the previous week's lineup included a player on BYE, that player is replaced w/an active one, as determined by the FBG's Player Rankings that week and using our scoring system

fast forward to this past weekend, when an owner had used Mendy and Ward in week 13 lineup...and did not enter a lineup prior to the Thurs nite games

once the Thurs nite games kicked, the scores for those players showed up on MFL site--again, NOT entered by the owner and not eligible to be used, regardless of their outcome

the owner entered a lineup on Sunday 12:15 eastern, replacing Mendy w/RBush and Ward w/Crabtree

I receive an email from Ariakas 4:35PM Sunday afternoon stating that what the owner did was illegal, that he got a "free look" and decided "to pull those guys" and enter Bush + Crabtree

well, that isn't quite accurate...because the owner DID NOT enter those players, they were OUT--just as if it were Thanksgiving....he would not have been able to "click them IN" Sunday, because the game had already started

and had the players done well and the owner tried to "leave 'em in" by claiming "I did get to enter a l/u, so last weeks had to used", I would have treated them as 'bye week players' and pulled them for the 2 highest rated players @the position off the bench---after all, there are no "free looks"

and to cement our procedure and how it applies "to all":

I failed to enter a Playoff lineup in our HP-3 league--a league that awards TE's 2/ppr--and where Heath Miller started every week other than his bye week for me this year...

...because I must be consistent w/how we deal w/these issues, my lineup for this week DOES NOT have HMiller in it (as much as I could use his 15.90 pts), as I replaced him w/Caddy and his 1pt-n-change on Friday morning

because Miller was not entered by the owner prior to kick Thursday, he does not score

because Mendy + Ward were not entered by their owner in MOX-II prior to kick, they do not score

we good here?

Seems to all make sense. I can appreciate how anybody could get confused. Most league software (including MFL, as it has been set up in just about all the leagues I've been in that use it) carries forward last week's players as a default "set" lineup. while not word-for-word from the rules, how we handle lineups:

Word-for-word probably would have been better.

if a lineup is not entered and the previous week's lineup included a player on BYE, that player is replaced w/an active one, as determined by the FBG's Player Rankings that week and using our scoring system

Do your rules stipulate which FBGs projections are to be used?

and had the players done well and the owner tried to "leave 'em in" by claiming "I did get to enter a l/u, so last weeks had to used", I would have treated them as 'bye week players' and pulled them for the 2 highest rated players @the position off the bench

So, those players would not be in the lineup is no lineup was submitted. You would have noticed that no lineup was submitted and removed the pre-Sunday players (and only the pre-Sunday players). Correct?

the owner entered a lineup on Sunday 12:15 eastern, replacing Mendy w/RBush and Ward w/Crabtree

Owner had no choice; correct?

As commish, must you police all lineup moves during weeks with pre-Sunday games?

if a lineup is not entered and the previous week's lineup included a player on BYE, that player is replaced w/an active one, as determined by the FBG's Player Rankings that week and using our scoring system

...

and had the players done well and the owner tried to "leave 'em in" by claiming "I did get to enter a l/u, so last weeks had to used", I would have treated them as 'bye week players' and pulled them for the 2 highest rated players @the position off the bench

But that would only apply to the pre-Sunday players (if no lineup was submitted at all)? Or would all prior week players be treated as "on bye" and replaced with top-FBG-projected player? What if a FBG staffer who contributes to projections is in a league? Such player could conceivable miss a Thursday lineup submission, and then try to skew the overall FBG projections to essentially name a starter from his bench, if he had a gut feeling.

I guess it's all something that's overdue for a streamline is all. Looks like (to an outsider, from your post) there's precedents what maybe ain't been codified.

Whenever I've been commish, I've tried to allow league management software to do as much league managing as I can. If it means changing rules in an insignificant way, to align them with options from league management software, so be it.

It seems as though your league rules are designed to punish owners who do not submit lineups (but I'm not entirely sure, as i don't know what happens to Sunday players when no lineup is submitted), which is not a bad goal, especially in internet leagues begotten frum message boards, where inactivity is a perpetual bane. However, if the cost of upholding the punishment regime is your sanity, there might be a better way. Some owners do quite well with "set it and forget it" on non-bye weeks. They might in your league, as well.

Good Luck!

 

[bbuster]

No way I would play in a league with these rules. I play in the Phenoms leagues which use MFL. If someone doesn't submit a lineup prior to ANY game, the previous weeks lineup is used. If players that were used in the previous week play on Thurs and the owner does not change the lineup, that players scores are locked in. They can change players on Sun. but not any players who have already played. If they start a player who is on a bye week(by not submitting a timely lineup) they get 0 points. People need to be responsible for their own teams. It may suck if you forgot about the Thurs game and didn't change your lineup, but it is your responsibility to do so. The only issue I have with our rules is that there seems to be an awful lot of teams(this year in particular) who have given up on their teams early and don't bother to change their lineups...this messes with people who are in the playoff hunt. Just MHO

 

[CaptainHook]

yea if those players are auto-in barring a change i dont understand not counting them

 

[Dave Stauff]

I play in two of Steve's leagues and in one of them we had this happen a few weeks ago. While I think an argument can be made for "auto-out" as the rules seem to currently imply, the question that made me think a different approach would improve things was: "If an owner in this situation (a couple Thursday players who sometimes start) doesn't submit a lineup prior to the Thursday games, are these players are locked out of the lineup totally or does the owner get a double look? If the owner likes the Thursday results, he can simply never submit a lineup, thereby reverting to the prior weeks lineup and taking advantage of the good Thursday performance. If the Thursday performers didn't do so well, he submits a lineup on Friday that effectively locks these players out of the lineup and he rolls the dice with other options."

Now I'm not going to advocate as some do that the owner get a "0" for failing to submit a timely lineup - that approach doesn't play well in maintaining the competitive balance of a league. But I do believe the correct MFL setting should be to install the prior weeks starting lineup as the default lineup as soon as the prior weeks results are final. I play in one league (MFL based) where when I go in to set my preliminary starting lineups for the following week late on Monday night, the lineup from the prior week is already posted under the "Starting Lineups" tab with a message that says something like "Prior weeks lineup used because no new lineup has been submitted". As soon as I enter my new lineup, this message goes away for my team, but remains for all others that do not do the late Monday roster set. This is pretty simple and certainly provides all the flexibility an owner needs. You can still swap out Sunday players for Sunday players after Thursday play, but Thursday players are simply locked into their status (starter or non-starter) at the time of kickoff for their game.

 

[qazqaz11]

fast forward to this past weekend, when an owner had used Mendy and Ward in week 13 lineup...and did not enter a lineup prior to the Thurs nite gamesonce the Thurs nite games kicked, the scores for those players showed up on MFL site-NOT entered by the owner and not eligible to be used, regardless of their outcomeI receive an email from Ariakas 4:35PM Sunday afternoon stating that what the owner did was illegal, that he got a "free look" and decided "to pull those guys" and enter Bush + Crabtreewell, that isn't quite accurate...because the owner DID NOT enter those players, they were OUT--just as if it were Thanksgiving....he would not have been able to "click them IN" Sunday, because the game had already startedand had the players done well and the owner tried to "leave 'em in" by claiming "I did get to enter a l/u, so last weeks had to used", I would have treated them as 'bye week players' and pulled them for the 2 highest rated players @the position off the bench---after all, there are no "free looks"because Mendy + Ward were not entered by their owner in MOX-II prior to kick, they do not scorewe good here?

I may be wrong here but if I understand Steves interpretation of the rules here then Mendy and Ward became ineligible to be starters this week the moment the thur night game started and T.Herd had not submitted a lineup that week that included them. If that is indeed the case then this is exactly the opposite of how he ruled in wk 11 in MOX SF-2 where Steve even advised the team in question that he could make Ricky Williams 35 pt (from thur night) eligible again by simply refusing to submit a lineup that week because then his wk 10 lineup would "roll over". He took the advise, his wk 10 lineup was used and he won the game thanks to Rickys 35 pt effort. (yes, ever me)Hopefully Steve will come here and show me where I'm wrong because it seems to me that we have two exact opposite interpretations of the same situation by the same person.BTW Steve you did tell us in SF-2 that we do indeed get a "free look" The following is from you on Nov 22:"because Williams was not entered prior to kick, the only way to allow him in would have been to not enter a l/u.......so yes, while there were "2 kicks at the cat" w/RB2, every other starter from week 10 had to play also"Any other MOX players besides me still a little confused???

 

[JohnnyU]

Was this ever resolved? To me, no one should ever get a free look at Thurs to determine Sunday's lineup. In other words, if they allow their lineup to carry over from the previous week and one or more of those players happen to play on Thurs night, then that owner should not be allowed to submit a whole new lineup on Sunday because they didn't submit one by Thursday and the carry over took affect and the players who played on Thurs happen to suck. This is a major glitch on MFL and no commish in their right mind would ever allow teams to submit a whole new lineup on Sunday if they used carry overs from the previous week and from the carry over had one or more players play on Thurs.

 

[JohnnyU]

Just talked to OPer and asked why he put "resolved" in the title. He said he just gave up.

No way should anyone be allowed to use this glitch to get a free look on Thurs night. Anyone else having issues with this yet?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

It seems to me that not only was it resolved, but the OP owed an apology to the owner and the commish. Tossing around the cheating and collusion labels can destroy leagues pretty easily.

 

[Ariakis]

Hmm interesting old thread. For one thing I still stand by the owner of the team tried to abuse the system knowingly and got away with it. My comment about the Commish was pretty much taken out of context ... I was angry and really amazed that he said it would stand and was more just incredulous he would let this stand and asked if he was in collusion as part of a heated thread on the site. Not that I believed it but it's just something you say when trying to be dramatic and make a point. We talked on the phone and yes I did apologize and no I never really thought he was since I've been in this league for half a dozen years.

As to this topic I'm still not sure it's truly resolved whether for our league rules or for MFL in general in that this seems open to abuse and to the need for each league's Commish to have to police rosters FAR more than they should have to.

IMO if an owner doesn't submit a roster and a player in last week's lineup plays ... that player counts. That player should be locked as IN the lineup and shouldn't be able to be removed by the owner on Sunday. No policing necessary. No grey area as to which projections get used. No matter how you look at it, only a bad owner in a PLAYOFF game doesn't submit a lineup but hey that's just my opinion.

I wouldn't be shocked that in the 20+ MOX leagues this season an owner missed a lineup atleast once already and his entire lineup counted because noone noticed.

 

[JohnnyU]

It seems to me that not only was it resolved, but the OP owed an apology to the owner and the commish. Tossing around the cheating and collusion labels can destroy leagues pretty easily.

How is it resolved if the same thing can happen in any league? Does anyone know if MFL flixed this glitch? I ask this because I am also a commish and I don't want this to be an issue. One thing I will say that I will do is if an owner uses carry over rosters and a player plays on thurs, he's in that owners lineup whether he submits a new lineup on Sunday or not.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

It seems to me that not only was it resolved, but the OP owed an apology to the owner and the commish. Tossing around the cheating and collusion labels can destroy leagues pretty easily.

How is it resolved if the same thing can happen in any league? Does anyone know if MFL flixed this glitch? I ask this because I am also a commish and I don't want this to be an issue. One thing I will say that I will do is if an owner uses carry over rosters and a player plays on thurs, he's in that owners lineup whether he submits a new lineup on Sunday or not.

I meant it seemed to be resolved in the the league in question, thanks to the commish. It sounds like it's a non-issue in your league as well if the loophole exists. There is always going to be some kind of glitch/loophole. A good commish will sort it out and most owners are pretty reasonable/understanding.

 

[JohnnyU]

It seems to me that not only was it resolved, but the OP owed an apology to the owner and the commish. Tossing around the cheating and collusion labels can destroy leagues pretty easily.

How is it resolved if the same thing can happen in any league? Does anyone know if MFL flixed this glitch? I ask this because I am also a commish and I don't want this to be an issue. One thing I will say that I will do is if an owner uses carry over rosters and a player plays on thurs, he's in that owners lineup whether he submits a new lineup on Sunday or not.

I meant it seemed to be resolved in the the league in question, thanks to the commish. It sounds like it's a non-issue in your league as well if the loophole exists. There is always going to be some kind of glitch/loophole. A good commish will sort it out and most owners are pretty reasonable/understanding.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but how was it resolved if the OP gave up and allowed the commish to say it's ok for a team to do this? Did I miss something?

 

[JohnnyU]

In the event this hasn't been fixed by MFL I posted the following in the leagues I commish ----

In the event of a Thurs game, it seems there is an issue where a team can carry over a previous week lineup by not submitting a new lineup for the current week and still submit a whole new lineup on Sunday. This is a bad thing if true. In the event someone uses a carry over lineup and has one or more players play on Thursday, they cannot submit a whole new lineup on Sunday. In other words, a carry over lineup from a previous week that includes players that play on Thurs, cannot be replaced on Sunday. No free looks on Thurs.

 

[kinghill]

From MFL's Help Center:

"19. An owner in my league had players in Thursday's game, but when he went to change his lineup before Sunday they were removed. How do I make sure that these Thursday players are locked into the games?"

"Answer: If you have enabled one of the options to copy lineups on the Setup > Players And Rosters > Starting Lineup Setup, it is most likely the option: "As Soon As Final (Monday) Results Are Available". If this is the selection then lineups do not copy until after Monday Night's final results run.

Therefore, if an owner submits a lineup after Thursday kickoff (but no lineup prior to Thursday) then all players that played on Thursday are locked out of his lineup as they are locked at kickoff of their game. You will want to change your settings to "As Soon As The Previous Week's Final Results Are Available" to have these players locked into their games on Thursday at kickoff."

NOTE: I still don't really understand the settings and the explanation given by MFL, but as Commish I've stuck with this setting:

"Copy Previous Week's Starters For Franchises Without Lineups: As Soon As The Previous Week's Final Results Are Available"

 

[bbuster]

In the event this hasn't been fixed by MFL I posted the following in the leagues I commish ----In the event of a Thurs game, it seems there is an issue where a team can carry over a previous week lineup by not submitting a new lineup for the current week and still submit a whole new lineup on Sunday. This is a bad thing if true. In the event someone uses a carry over lineup and has one or more players play on Thursday, they cannot submit a whole new lineup on Sunday. In other words, a carry over lineup from a previous week that includes players that play on Thurs, cannot be replaced on Sunday. No free looks on Thurs.

I play in 10 leagues that use MFL. Because of this thread, I checked each teams starting lineup(or ones that did not submit lineups) this week.I should know after Sunday whether or not this is still a glitch with MFL.

 

[kinghill]

In the event this hasn't been fixed by MFL I posted the following in the leagues I commish ----In the event of a Thurs game, it seems there is an issue where a team can carry over a previous week lineup by not submitting a new lineup for the current week and still submit a whole new lineup on Sunday. This is a bad thing if true. In the event someone uses a carry over lineup and has one or more players play on Thursday, they cannot submit a whole new lineup on Sunday. In other words, a carry over lineup from a previous week that includes players that play on Thurs, cannot be replaced on Sunday. No free looks on Thurs.

I play in 10 leagues that use MFL. Because of this thread, I checked each teams starting lineup(or ones that did not submit lineups) this week.I should know after Sunday whether or not this is still a glitch with MFL.

Yes, it is still a "glitch". Read my post above. It depends on how your commissioner has the Starting Lineup requirement set.

 

[Unlucky]

In the event this hasn't been fixed by MFL I posted the following in the leagues I commish ----In the event of a Thurs game, it seems there is an issue where a team can carry over a previous week lineup by not submitting a new lineup for the current week and still submit a whole new lineup on Sunday. This is a bad thing if true. In the event someone uses a carry over lineup and has one or more players play on Thursday, they cannot submit a whole new lineup on Sunday. In other words, a carry over lineup from a previous week that includes players that play on Thurs, cannot be replaced on Sunday. No free looks on Thurs.

I play in 10 leagues that use MFL. Because of this thread, I checked each teams starting lineup(or ones that did not submit lineups) this week.I should know after Sunday whether or not this is still a glitch with MFL.

Yes, it is still a "glitch". Read my post above. It depends on how your commissioner has the Starting Lineup requirement set.

Are you sure it's still a glitch? If the MFL league copies last week's lineup as soon as last week's results are posted, then players that play on Thursday are locked in or out of the lineup. If they don't copy, then all Thursday players should be locked out of the lineup. Are you sure you can decided to whether or not to play Thursday players after Thursday's kickoff has started if you didn't submit a lineup that week? If so, this is a serious glitch. I'd be very surprised by this if it were true.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

Again I weighed with this comment last year.

For the life of me I don't know why MFL, who lot of people rave about in terms of "flexibility" and customer service, don't enhance their product.

This issue is a complete non-issue in CBS leagues. No need to monitor, no need for special rules or commish intervention. Simply the prior week's starters remain starters for subsequent weeks unless changed by the owner or traded/cut.

This along with the need for commish to lock/unlock their special powers all of the time otherwise they can see WW requests make MFL an inferior product. It is a cheaper product and I do accept that it is a better value for the money for those leagues that are very cost conscious.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

An owner in a dyansty league made up of mostly FBG members did not submit a lineup until Sunday morning. His week 13 lineup had Hines Ward and Mendenhall active. On Sunday morning, his live scoring said he had 9.2 combined points. However, because he did not submit a lineup, MFL's gui does not consider these players "locked into his starting lineup".

The net result is this owner replaced Mendenhall's 7.0 after he played with Reggie Bush who had a big game and will get Crabtree tonight instead of the 2.1 from Hines Ward.

The Commish of these long-time leagues is as of now going to let this "free look" stand rather than enforce a lock of players who had already played remaining in this owner's lineup.

His week 13 lineup had no injured players and had he not submitted it, it would have matched pretty closely with FBG's projections of who to start to maximize point potential once Hines was announced as a starter.

You can absolutely bet that had Mendenhall gotten the 16+ he was projected to get and Ward got his usual 8-12 that he simply would not have submitted a lineup on Sunday to remove them with other options.

It should be noted that this league format allows waivers after Thursday's games with the caveat that if you pick up a player who already played, the Commish will reverse the transaction. I feel the same should apply here, with the Commish performing a lock just the same way.

I may still win tonight but this free look appears to be a 20 point swing. What is the board consensus on this?

http://www3.myfantasyleague.com/2009/home/16129

How was this ever an issue? u choose to start or sit a player before the game starts. If he didn't submit a roster, he can't start them (unless they were already in the starting lineup-- and thus he would HAVE to take those points.

no brainer?

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Again I weighed with this comment last year.For the life of me I don't know why MFL, who lot of people rave about in terms of "flexibility" and customer service, don't enhance their product.This issue is a complete non-issue in CBS leagues. No need to monitor, no need for special rules or commish intervention. Simply the prior week's starters remain starters for subsequent weeks unless changed by the owner or traded/cut.This along with the need for commish to lock/unlock their special powers all of the time otherwise they can see WW requests make MFL an inferior product. It is a cheaper product and I do accept that it is a better value for the money for those leagues that are very cost conscious.

that you have to change a setting that is written in legalese to get to the 'normal' result is absurd.

 

[JohnnyU]

An owner in a dyansty league made up of mostly FBG members did not submit a lineup until Sunday morning. His week 13 lineup had Hines Ward and Mendenhall active. On Sunday morning, his live scoring said he had 9.2 combined points. However, because he did not submit a lineup, MFL's gui does not consider these players "locked into his starting lineup".

The net result is this owner replaced Mendenhall's 7.0 after he played with Reggie Bush who had a big game and will get Crabtree tonight instead of the 2.1 from Hines Ward.

The Commish of these long-time leagues is as of now going to let this "free look" stand rather than enforce a lock of players who had already played remaining in this owner's lineup.

His week 13 lineup had no injured players and had he not submitted it, it would have matched pretty closely with FBG's projections of who to start to maximize point potential once Hines was announced as a starter.

You can absolutely bet that had Mendenhall gotten the 16+ he was projected to get and Ward got his usual 8-12 that he simply would not have submitted a lineup on Sunday to remove them with other options.

It should be noted that this league format allows waivers after Thursday's games with the caveat that if you pick up a player who already played, the Commish will reverse the transaction. I feel the same should apply here, with the Commish performing a lock just the same way.

I may still win tonight but this free look appears to be a 20 point swing. What is the board consensus on this?

http://www3.myfantasyleague.com/2009/home/16129

How was this ever an issue? u choose to start or sit a player before the game starts. If he didn't submit a roster, he can't start them (unless they were already in the starting lineup-- and thus he would HAVE to take those points.

no brainer?

It all stems from allowing teams to rollover lineups from the previous week without having to submit a lineup. The MFL software shouldn't allow someone who uses this feature to be able to submit an entirely new lineup on Sunday when they happened to have a player from the rollover lineup play on Thurs night. MFL should recognize an owner is using the lineup from the previous week and automatically lock the players into their lineup after their game has played.

 

[ravnzfan]

I've just gone thru all the leagues and disabled the feature that submits previous weeks l/u for an owner...it doesn't change the fact that owners have to submit players going in early games...this has ALWAYS been the case, as per this Thanksgiving Day 2006 post from HP-1:

"Couldn't get Arlene Harris in Lineup?"

the spirit and intent of the rule has ALWAYS been "submit player by game time of that game"...so:

--in all MOX leagues, the MFL system has been disabled regarding copying l/u from week-to-week

--players in games Thursday and/or Saturday MUST be entered by owner prior to kickoff of that game...meerly being IN the previous week WILL NOT place that player IN for a Thursday game

--if an owner has NOT entered a l/u by 1PM Sunday, the previous weeks l/u will score, but WITH OUT any players from Thurs/Sat games--again, they MUST be entered by the owner prior to their kickoff...Commish will enter previous weeks l/u and replace any Th/Sat players w/bench players, using highest rated players from FBG's rankings by Davis Dodds for that week

thanks for all submitting comments + how their leagues handle this....we had to decide to fall on one side or the other of "IN" or "OUT" regarding Thursday players not clicked as active prior to the start of those games

it is the opinion of this Commissioner that the submission of the starting lineup each week of an owner is HIS responsibility, that where there is the situation of Thursday + Saturday games, the owner MUST submit them as active, otherwise they are considered benched

I would rather 'force' an owner to put a player IN, than 'make him' accept a score for a player he did not submit nor intend to play

 

[JohnnyU]

I've just gone thru all the leagues and disabled the feature that submits previous weeks l/u for an owner...it doesn't change the fact that owners have to submit players going in early games...this has ALWAYS been the case, as per this Thanksgiving Day 2006 post from HP-1:

"Couldn't get Arlene Harris in Lineup?"

the spirit and intent of the rule has ALWAYS been "submit player by game time of that game"...so:

--in all MOX leagues, the MFL system has been disabled regarding copying l/u from week-to-week

--players in games Thursday and/or Saturday MUST be entered by owner prior to kickoff of that game...meerly being IN the previous week WILL NOT place that player IN for a Thursday game

--if an owner has NOT entered a l/u by 1PM Sunday, the previous weeks l/u will score, but WITH OUT any players from Thurs/Sat games--again, they MUST be entered by the owner prior to their kickoff...Commish will enter previous weeks l/u and replace any Th/Sat players w/bench players, using highest rated players from FBG's rankings by Davis Dodds for that week

thanks for all submitting comments + how their leagues handle this....we had to decide to fall on one side or the other of "IN" or "OUT" regarding Thursday players not clicked as active prior to the start of those games

it is the opinion of this Commissioner that the submission of the starting lineup each week of an owner is HIS responsibility, that where there is the situation of Thursday + Saturday games, the owner MUST submit them as active, otherwise they are considered benched

I would rather 'force' an owner to put a player IN, than 'make him' accept a score for a player he did not submit nor intend to play

I like your solution. I added the following for Fantasy Legends I and II with some minor tweaks of your solution.--in FLL1 and FLL2, the MFL system has been disabled regarding copying lineups from week-to-week

--players in games Thursday and/or Saturday MUST be entered by owner prior to kickoff of that game...meerly being IN the previous week WILL NOT place that player IN for a Thursday game

--if an owner has NOT entered a l/u by 1PM Sunday, the previous weeks l/u will score, but WITH OUT any players from Thurs/Sat games--again, they MUST be entered by the owner prior to their kickoff...Commish will enter previous weeks l/u and replace any Th/Sat players w/bench players, using highest rated players from the MFL

Fantasy Shark Lineup Coach under Player Projections.

it is the opinion of this Commissioner that the submission of the starting lineup each week of an owner is HIS responsibility, that where there is the situation of Thursday + Saturday games, the owner MUST submit them as active, otherwise they are considered benched

I would rather 'force' an owner to put a player IN, than 'make him' accept a score for a player he did not submit nor intend to play

 

[fatness]

For one thing I still stand by the owner of the team tried to abuse the system knowingly and got away with it.

I'll stand by my comment that you're a turd for doing that again.

 

[malteg]

Can anyone confirm that this glitch still hasn't been resolved by MFL? When I checked my opponent's lineup on Friday afternoon, he had not submitted a Week 2 lineup, and had Cutler and Marshall in as starters as carryovers from Week 1. Now they are both sitting on the bench.

 

[GregR]

Can anyone confirm that this glitch still hasn't been resolved by MFL? When I checked my opponent's lineup on Friday afternoon, he had not submitted a Week 2 lineup, and had Cutler and Marshall in as starters as carryovers from Week 1. Now they are both sitting on the bench.

It really isn't a glitch. The league that spawned this thread set an option that this is the expected outcome for. It's just a case of not understanding the options.To avoid the issue entirely, leave the following default option set:Go to For Commissioners -> Setup -> Starting Lineup Setup. Under "Copy Previous Week's Starters For Franchises Without Lineups" select "As Soon As The Previous Week's Final Results Are Available".This means as soon as the previous week is done, their lineup gets copied just as if the owner resubmitted it himself. Which means come the Thursday game any Thursday players will be locked in or out of the lineup.Why do I say it's not a glitch? They give you three options... copy lineups after previous week's games... copy lineups as soon as preliminary results are available, and copy lineup when final results are available.Just think for a moment what the difference is between them. The first one copies the lineup on the previous Monday night. The second one (if there is a Thursday game) copies it Thursday night. The last one copies Monday at the end of the fantasy week.The first one locks players when their games start because there is a lineup set now. The latter two don't because the commish explicitly chose an option that said don't set the lineup for them yet. If you want the system to have the last 2 options lock players in a lineup, then you're basically telling the system it has to set the lineup before games start. Which then make them no difference than the 1st option.So when people say "fix" the glitch" they are essentially saying make the latter 2 options do exactly what the first does, rather than doing what their description says they do. Now it's extremely arguable the latter 2 options are bad options and maybe they don't need to exist. Or maybe there is some league with funky trade or waiver rules where it meets their needs and they accept it and have to deal with this other issue manually, I don't know. If I was MFL I'd look into just dropping the latter 2 options and have 2 options, copy lineup as soon as previous week ends, or don't copy lineups at all.But in any event, the only reason this is a problem is if the commish doesn't set the option stated. Which is the default option for new leagues.Edit to add: Or if there is a glitch, it's that it tells you that he has a lineup at all when you look at the live scoring, when in essence he won't have one set until the future.