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MI violated election laws. (1 Viewer)

and no - I do not believe Biden got 81.2 million votes vs a far more popular Hillary's 65.8 million while winning only like 5 more counties nationwide
But you have no problem believing that Trump went from 62.9M in 2016 to 74.2M in 2020.  Are you guys trying to tell me that Trump gained 12M more votes in 2020 while losing 130 counties when compared to 2016?  I think the media should look into this, because it looks like a statistical impossibility to me.

 
The logic being used in this thread is so laughably bad and just shows how disconnected from reality a large portion of the Republican Party is.

 
that's what CNN told us

the R's should have seen the rules changing on mail in ballots and met/exceeded what the Democrats counted

and no - I do not believe Biden got 81.2 million votes vs a far more popular Hillary's 65.8 million while winning only like 5 more counties nationwide

that happened ONLY because of all the mail in votes counted - and nobody knows where those votes came from, how they were cast etc - which is what that link says ........... MI violated laws as we know CA and other states did by allowing unchecked numbers of mail in ballots

Democrats made sure they counted millions more Biden ballots than Trump - I absolutely believe that
Hi Stealthycat.

What do you believe to be more likely when comparing the 2016 election to the 2020 election results?

1. A gain in popular vote of 18% while losing 5% of counties nationwide.

2. A gain in popular vote of 23% while gaining 8% of counties nationwide.

 
How many people do you think were in on this fraud/conspiracy?  In a world of media leaks, it's fascinating how they managed to keep this a secret.  When do you think this will all be blown open?  

You keep on fighting the good fight, but you're looking more and more ridiculous by the day when you continue with this stuff.
I never even mentioned the word conspiracy my friend. They're just questions or posting the facts, I'll leave the interpretations to the intellectuals to discuss. 

 
What about the courts tossing 99% of the cases?  
Forcing mask orders and people inside and ordering churches shut and everyone locked up and only able to watch the news, total control of every major urban city and the ability to strongly influence the vote in ways that are never going to hold up in a Court, more folks shoulda joined us in taking the sands of the beaches here in Florida when they ordered them shut over the 4th of July last year, I stepped foot out there but many cowered and stayed indoors, and continue to wear masks when they ride bicycles outdoors when we all know you cannot catch the CV-19 that way but people were so scared thru the media and frightened by many non-science based proclamations and accusations. 

-I'm not looking to change your mind Sabe, the Russia hoax was a terrific crybaby routine that lasted until they could jump on the Covid and turn it into a political battle and millions of folks in this country were forced into poverty over it. Not the MoPs of the world of course, our lives have gotten nothing but better to be perfectly honest but it doesn't change my opinion to how things unfolded where I reside. 

Don't be mad Sabe, I won't be speaking much about this, I usually just read along from the cheap seats, I know my lane around here. 👍

 
I’m sure there were a lot more votes in Wayne, Kent, Ingram etc.  I always thought those counties were underrepresented at the voting booth.  

 
Forcing mask orders and people inside and ordering churches shut and everyone locked up and only able to watch the news, total control of every major urban city and the ability to strongly influence the vote in ways that are never going to hold up in a Court, more folks shoulda joined us in taking the sands of the beaches here in Florida when they ordered them shut over the 4th of July last year, I stepped foot out there but many cowered and stayed indoors, and continue to wear masks when they ride bicycles outdoors when we all know you cannot catch the CV-19 that way but people were so scared thru the media and frightened by many non-science based proclamations and accusations. 

-I'm not looking to change your mind Sabe, the Russia hoax was a terrific crybaby routine that lasted until they could jump on the Covid and turn it into a political battle and millions of folks in this country were forced into poverty over it. Not the MoPs of the world of course, our lives have gotten nothing but better to be perfectly honest but it doesn't change my opinion to how things unfolded where I reside. 

Don't be mad Sabe, I won't be speaking much about this, I usually just read along from the cheap seats, I know my lane around here. 👍
 You seem happy and content.  

 
The Flint water fiasco and $$$$$ got Whitmer elected.     Whitmer outspent her opponent 2-1 during the election, she came from a very wealthy, privledged family and acts like it when she speaks.  During her pressers she is very condensending, bristles and dismisses questions that question her judgement on anything.   Very secretive and non-transparent. Whitmer has totally blown off Detroit News and Free Press reporters if she does not like their questions.

The only good thing is Pulitzer Prize winning investigative reporter Charlie LeDuff is all over Whitmer right now for her tax payer funded hush money payouts to quiet former employees and her handling of all the nursing home deaths, and he never lets up.

I don`t care if we get another Dem in charge as long as Whitmer is gone.  Only problem is she has tons of $$$$ behind her so I doubt any Dem will oppose her in a primary.
  I like that she just dismisses the haters.   At least she has a deeper voice than Snyder had.  That guy was like listening to a cartoon.  

 
We're all Americans and yet 60% of Democrats voted mail in or absentee and 30% of Republicans voted by mail or absentee...that's a major difference is it not? 

You cannot be so obtuse as to think that there was not some sort of connection with the pandemic, the 30 Major Cities run by Democrats(Facts my brother, Facts), it's naive to think they didn't have at least the same impact that they claimed the Russians had in 2016.

You don't have to agree with me, it's fine but this notion of nobody is allowed to stop and ask a question or two is really disappointing to folks like me who think highly of folks like you and I still will of course, this is just stupid politics but I find the notion that it was so slanted one way and not to mention the amount of "ballot dumps" I kept hearing about...but as Jerry Seinfeld says "It is what it is" 

Why do folks get so defensive when anyone has a doubt about things? Doubting Thomas comes from the Bible, does he not God? The election was not stolen but to not see the amount of extreme influence that went on and was perpetuated...it was the Tampa Mayor as an example that bucked the Governor and ordered face masks back in May 2020, maybe April? And that was after Key West mandated them thru Summer of 2021 and that was back in April 2020 or thereabouts.

Sides were drawn, there was a clear story of good vs evil, mask vs outlaw, and it all went into a big pot and I just think it's unfair to not have any understanding of what some folks might be going thru.  
The main reason for the disparity in mail-in voting between Republican and Democrat voters was two-fold:   For months before the election GOP leaders, Trump in particular, told their followers that mail-in voting could not be trusted while Democrat leaders encouraged their voters to vote by mail.  Secondly Republicans have a much larger proportion of voters that viewed the pandemic as just another flu (or an outright hoax) and so were less concerned about voting in person than Democrat voters.

There is no evidence that mail-in votes are any less secure than in-person voting and all of the reports of "ballot dumps" were found to be either mistaken or fabricated.  Stories like these were investigated as well as those saying there were rigged voting machines and none were shown to have had any merit.  It was absolutely fine to stop and ask a question or two about the election but this was the most scrutinized election in history and nothing was found.

The former president had every right to bring forth legal challenges but even as he lost each and every one and exhausted them all he refused to concede and to this day maintains his baseless claims that the election was stolen.   

People are free to believe whatever they want but there are no facts to back up the notion of widespread fraud that would have impacted the election.  You're a good dude MOP and I have family and friends that feel they same way as you.  I don't understand it but that is the way it is.

 
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  I like that she just dismisses the haters.   At least she has a deeper voice than Snyder had.  That guy was like listening to a cartoon.  
Snyder?  He has been gone for over 2 1/2 years.   You don`t like Snyders voice, and people say Whitmer looks like Kaitlyn Jenners twin if you want to go there.

It is not about dismissing haters, Whitmer won`t answer any new reporters if she does not like the question. Or if any questions is about her leadership or decisions.  That is not dimissing, that is totally ducking.  These are by the reporters that work in the state capitol and cover state government.

Watch the message not the messenger.  LeDuff has exposed a number of corruption cases.  Believe me in Detroit and Michigan LeDuff is the last person you want sniffing your trail. Whitmer has insisted she will not relase nursing home records and data.  Well LeDuff and his team filed a motion with the state and those records will be released.

 
But you have no problem believing that Trump went from 62.9M in 2016 to 74.2M in 2020.  Are you guys trying to tell me that Trump gained 12M more votes in 2020 while losing 130 counties when compared to 2016?  I think the media should look into this, because it looks like a statistical impossibility to me.
Trump was even more popular in 2020 ......... Biden wasn't and isn't

People voted FOR Trump ......... people voted against Trump ......... very few people voted for Biden 

I'll tell you this with great confidence - if mail in ballots hadn't been done the way they were done - Biden wouldn't be President

 
Trump was even more popular in 2020 ......... Biden wasn't and isn't

People voted FOR Trump ......... people voted against Trump ......... very few people voted for Biden 

I'll tell you this with great confidence - if mail in ballots hadn't been done the way they were done - Biden wouldn't be President
Yes, if you eliminated millions of legal votes, Trump would be president

 
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Norville Barns, when did you become so right wing?  I don't recall you being so far right.  You used to be kind of witty and funny and sarcastic if I recall.  
Not sure what your definition of far right is. Do you think the judge is far right? Or made a bad ruling here? 

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 
No. Legal. There have been countless lawsuits, all with the same result. And even if the state of MI violated election laws, the people that voted, voted in accordance with the laws at the time.
I'm confused. Are you saying you disagree with the judges ruling, or that you're simply unaware of it?

 
I'm confused. Are you saying you disagree with the judges ruling, or that you're simply unaware of it?
I am not disagreeing with the judges ruling for I don't know enough about it. 

Doesn't change that the people that voted by mail voted so legally and in accordance with the law. So not sure why you feel the need to write "legal"

 
I am not disagreeing with the judges ruling for I don't know enough about it. 

Doesn't change that the people that voted by mail voted so legally and in accordance with the law. So not sure why you feel the need to write "legal"
if the "law" was illegal - which is what this sounds like here - then they didn't vote legally and in accordance with the law.

 
if the "law" was illegal - which is what this sounds like here - then they didn't vote legally and in accordance with the law.
If sometime in the future something is made illegal, but you followed the letter of the law while doing whatever you did, you didn't commit any crime. 

 
Snyder?  He has been gone for over 2 1/2 years.   You don`t like Snyders voice, and people say Whitmer looks like Kaitlyn Jenners twin if you want to go there.

It is not about dismissing haters, Whitmer won`t answer any new reporters if she does not like the question. Or if any questions is about her leadership or decisions.  That is not dimissing, that is totally ducking.  These are by the reporters that work in the state capitol and cover state government.

Watch the message not the messenger.  LeDuff has exposed a number of corruption cases.  Believe me in Detroit and Michigan LeDuff is the last person you want sniffing your trail. Whitmer has insisted she will not relase nursing home records and data.  Well LeDuff and his team filed a motion with the state and those records will be released.
Cool.  Snyder literally poisoned a whole city.  So yeah.  

 
I am not disagreeing with the judges ruling for I don't know enough about it. 

Doesn't change that the people that voted by mail voted so legally and in accordance with the law. So not sure why you feel the need to write "legal"
if the "law" was illegal - which is what this sounds like here - then they didn't vote legally and in accordance with the law.
No, that's not how any of this works.

 
BladeRunner said:
if the "law" was illegal - which is what this sounds like here - then they didn't vote legally and in accordance with the law.
Wut?  How can the law be illegal?  

 
BladeRunner said:
if the "law" was illegal - which is what this sounds like here - then they didn't vote legally and in accordance with the law.
You don’t know what you’re talking about or what this is even about. Benson issued guidance on signature matching for absentee applications, the judge says she didn’t use the proper procedure when issuing this guidance and clerks do not have to adhere to that guidance in the future. It doesn’t prove that anyone voted illegally, or that anyone voting by mail did so fraudulently. There isn’t even a claim that there were signatures that were asked to be disqualified that were accepted based on the guidance.
Link

“Benson’s guidelines focused on signature verification of absentee ballot applications and their return envelopes, which were to be compared against each other as well as against signatures in qualified voter files.

Benson’s office said “that signature review ‘begins with the presumption that’ the signature on an absent voter ballot application or envelope is valid,” Murray wrote. The Secretary of State’s instructions to clerks further said signatures with any “redeeming qualities” -- described as those having “similar distinctive flourishes” or those with “more matching features than nonmatching features” -- should be validated”

People voted legally. There isn’t even a claim that this procedure somehow enabled some sort of voter fraud or would change any result. 

 
Sabertooth said:
Cool.  Snyder literally poisoned a whole city.  So yeah.  
Why do you keep bringing up Snyder as he has been gone 2 1/2 years?  There is a Flint water thread if you want to talk about Snyder.  

 
Some did, certainly. No one is claiming that all votes were illegal or invalid. But it's clear form the judges ruling that Bensons guidelines were illegal - and those guidelines had a direct effect on the count of valid votes.
I disagree with that assessment. In fact there is no claim that it affected anything, simply that she didn’t go through the proper process in issuing the guidance. 

 
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I disagree with that assessment. In fact there is no claim that it affected anything, simply that she didn’t go through the proper process in issuing the guidance. 
I believe it absolutely affected the count - indeed that was the whole purpose. But we'll just agree to disagree.

 
I believe it absolutely affected the count - indeed that was the whole purpose. But we'll just agree to disagree.
No one is even claiming that it affected the count. I won’t beat a dead horse, I’m fine with seeing it different ways. 
With Sidney Powell’s dominion lawsuit response and the trump teams failure to prove any sort of fraud, I think it’s irresponsible to imply that something was wrong with the balloting or the counting. I’ll leave it at that.

 
I believe it absolutely affected the count - indeed that was the whole purpose. But we'll just agree to disagree.
It's far more likely that election officials in red districts simply ignored the Secretary's "guidelines," then used their own made-up (illegal!) standards to judge signatures, then pretended to be hamstrung by the toothless "guidelines" in order to get a favorable court ruling from a sympathetic judge.

 
It's far more likely that election officials in red districts simply ignored the Secretary's "guidelines," then used their own made-up (illegal!) standards to judge signatures, then pretended to be hamstrung by the toothless "guidelines" in order to get a favorable court ruling from a sympathetic judge.
This makes no sense.

 

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