Miami fans wanted to lynch Cam Cameron (1 Viewer)

[Lehigh98]

Many Philly fans are still kicking themselves about how mad they were when the Birds took McNabb instead of Ricky Williams.

Really mostly Angelo Cataldi's "Dirty Thirty" that was there specifically to boo anyone not named Ricky Williams. And they must feel REALLY stupid now.

 

[jurb26]

You don't draft at number 9 for need. HTH.

If you NEED a player who is worth taking in the Top 10, yes you do.I guess we'll just have to disagree, Chase. You got a top ten pick because you have gaping big holes (most of the time). You have problems. A top ten pick ain't a luxury. Indy gets to pick for luxury. Chicago gets to pick for luxury. New England. San Diego.Miami? IMO they shouldn't be doing that.

Picking stop-gap players to fill short term needs would be drafting for "luxury" and never get a poor team to turn the corner. When you're bad, you take the BPA. Mia has/had serious issues on O the past couple years creating any big plays. Ginn makes big plays and was a top 15 pick in this draft no matter how much people on message boards have convinced themselves that he is only fast. Mia did not reach for Ginn. Mia would have reached for Quinn had they taken him. That would have been a classic example of a player going several slots above is prospect level just to fill a need. Mia took they best player on their draft board and still got a QB as good as the one everyone is all PO'd they passed on.

 

[NoFBinLA]

You don't draft at number 9 for need. HTH.

If you NEED a player who is worth taking in the Top 10, yes you do.I guess we'll just have to disagree, Chase. You got a top ten pick because you have gaping big holes (most of the time). You have problems. A top ten pick ain't a luxury. Indy gets to pick for luxury. Chicago gets to pick for luxury. New England. San Diego.Miami? IMO they shouldn't be doing that.

Picking stop-gap players to fill short term needs would be drafting for "luxury" and never get a poor team to turn the corner. When you're bad, you take the BPA. Mia has/had serious issues on O the past couple years creating any big plays. Ginn makes big plays and was a top 15 pick in this draft no matter how much people on message boards have convinced themselves that he is only fast. Mia did not reach for Ginn. Mia would have reached for Quinn had they taken him. That would have been a classic example of a player going several slots above is prospect level just to fill a need. Mia took they best player on their draft board and still got a QB as good as the one everyone is all PO'd they passed on.

A - I think your bonkers if you think Quinn would have been a reach here. But that's fine.B - a return guy is your answer to their O problems. It's not just people on message boards berating this pick. ESPN, NFLN, plenty of professional folks dislike this pick. They have the same reasons most people here do, and it's not 'he's not Quinn'. Beck may be a good pick, I really don't know enough about him to say. Plenty of second round or later QBs become solid - and occasionally spectacular - starters. Forget Quinn. He's not half my issue with this pick. And let's say for amoment that Ginn is a stud -- the dude is the next coming of Jerry Rice.How you gonna get him the ball when your QB is on his ###? hey, I am sure Ginn was tops on Miami's boards at that point. I;m sure they are completely confident in their choice. They don't have to answer to me -- I'm just chatting and debating on a message board. They get paid, I do not.But I'm still gonna say that there were bigger needs than a WR. And there were top players to fill that need at the number 9 spot.

 

[kensat30]

People keep calling Ginn a WR. I don't get it. Didn't he only run 3 different routes in college? The guy is a polished return man and a project WR. Miami must intend to utilize a lot of gimmick plays to get Ginn involved this year...

 

[Lash]

shoulda pickes Okoye or even better traded down a bit and got Harrell

 

[Desert_Power]

People keep calling Ginn a WR. I don't get it. Didn't he only run 3 different routes in college? The guy is a polished return man and a project WR. Miami must intend to utilize a lot of gimmick plays to get Ginn involved this year...

evidently NFL scouts "get it". Perhaps you should watch some film on this guy.

 

[jurb26]

You don't draft at number 9 for need. HTH.

If you NEED a player who is worth taking in the Top 10, yes you do.I guess we'll just have to disagree, Chase. You got a top ten pick because you have gaping big holes (most of the time). You have problems. A top ten pick ain't a luxury. Indy gets to pick for luxury. Chicago gets to pick for luxury. New England. San Diego.Miami? IMO they shouldn't be doing that.

Picking stop-gap players to fill short term needs would be drafting for "luxury" and never get a poor team to turn the corner. When you're bad, you take the BPA. Mia has/had serious issues on O the past couple years creating any big plays. Ginn makes big plays and was a top 15 pick in this draft no matter how much people on message boards have convinced themselves that he is only fast. Mia did not reach for Ginn. Mia would have reached for Quinn had they taken him. That would have been a classic example of a player going several slots above is prospect level just to fill a need. Mia took they best player on their draft board and still got a QB as good as the one everyone is all PO'd they passed on.

A - I think your bonkers if you think Quinn would have been a reach here. But that's fine.B - a return guy is your answer to their O problems. It's not just people on message boards berating this pick. ESPN, NFLN, plenty of professional folks dislike this pick. They have the same reasons most people here do, and it's not 'he's not Quinn'. Beck may be a good pick, I really don't know enough about him to say. Plenty of second round or later QBs become solid - and occasionally spectacular - starters. Forget Quinn. He's not half my issue with this pick. And let's say for amoment that Ginn is a stud -- the dude is the next coming of Jerry Rice.How you gonna get him the ball when your QB is on his ###? hey, I am sure Ginn was tops on Miami's boards at that point. I;m sure they are completely confident in their choice. They don't have to answer to me -- I'm just chatting and debating on a message board. They get paid, I do not.But I'm still gonna say that there were bigger needs than a WR. And there were top players to fill that need at the number 9 spot.

A. We actually KNOW it to be a fact that Quinn was not drafted until 1.23. Obviously he wasn't as highly valued as you or the media hype machine would have liked us all to believe. Mia could have traded up to 1.23 if they really wanted Quinn that bad. Yes, taking Quinn at 1.09 would have been a reach KNOWING that he would have still been there at 1.23.B. Plenty of media folks seem to be backtracking pretty fast about their initial comments on Ginn from what I've seen. Ginn should help an ailing offense in more ways than just his returning. Even still, I don't understand why so many people discount the value of a guy who can consistently CHANGE field position in a game like Ginn can. I understand that Mia may have had "bigger needs." The bottom line is that they have nearly a whole team of needs and players that could be upgraded. When you're that bad, you go BPA.

 

[NoFBinLA]

Ultimately one mans trash (or project WR) is another man's treasure (or #9 pick). He's a WR - again clearly the Phins had him high. We don't know for sure about anyone else - we never will.

One thing I didn't touch on -- it SUCKS that Cameron got booed at the event. I respect he stood there and tried to deal with the 'fans' in an adult manner - give them a reason why he thought Ginn was the best fit. That's class.

Those Booing fans? yeah, not so much.

 

[Chase Stuart]

FWIW, the Jets used a similar pick (by trading up) to get Santana Moss, who factored in primarily as a punt returner. After a couple of years, though, we all saw what happened.

 

[NoFBinLA]

You don't draft at number 9 for need. HTH.

If you NEED a player who is worth taking in the Top 10, yes you do.I guess we'll just have to disagree, Chase. You got a top ten pick because you have gaping big holes (most of the time). You have problems. A top ten pick ain't a luxury. Indy gets to pick for luxury. Chicago gets to pick for luxury. New England. San Diego.Miami? IMO they shouldn't be doing that.

Picking stop-gap players to fill short term needs would be drafting for "luxury" and never get a poor team to turn the corner. When you're bad, you take the BPA. Mia has/had serious issues on O the past couple years creating any big plays. Ginn makes big plays and was a top 15 pick in this draft no matter how much people on message boards have convinced themselves that he is only fast. Mia did not reach for Ginn. Mia would have reached for Quinn had they taken him. That would have been a classic example of a player going several slots above is prospect level just to fill a need. Mia took they best player on their draft board and still got a QB as good as the one everyone is all PO'd they passed on.

A - I think your bonkers if you think Quinn would have been a reach here. But that's fine.B - a return guy is your answer to their O problems. It's not just people on message boards berating this pick. ESPN, NFLN, plenty of professional folks dislike this pick. They have the same reasons most people here do, and it's not 'he's not Quinn'. Beck may be a good pick, I really don't know enough about him to say. Plenty of second round or later QBs become solid - and occasionally spectacular - starters. Forget Quinn. He's not half my issue with this pick. And let's say for amoment that Ginn is a stud -- the dude is the next coming of Jerry Rice.How you gonna get him the ball when your QB is on his ###? hey, I am sure Ginn was tops on Miami's boards at that point. I;m sure they are completely confident in their choice. They don't have to answer to me -- I'm just chatting and debating on a message board. They get paid, I do not.But I'm still gonna say that there were bigger needs than a WR. And there were top players to fill that need at the number 9 spot.

A. We actually KNOW it to be a fact that Quinn was not drafted until 1.23. Obviously he wasn't as highly valued as you or the media hype machine would have liked us all to believe. Mia could have traded up to 1.23 if they really wanted Quinn that bad. Yes, taking Quinn at 1.09 would have been a reach KNOWING that he would have still been there at 1.23.B. Plenty of media folks seem to be backtracking pretty fast about their initial comments on Ginn from what I've seen. Ginn should help an ailing offense in more ways than just his returning. Even still, I don't understand why so many people discount the value of a guy who can consistently CHANGE field position in a game like Ginn can. I understand that Mia may have had "bigger needs." The bottom line is that they have nearly a whole team of needs and players that could be upgraded. When you're that bad, you go BPA.

Well, the reason Quinn dove after Miami is very few of those teams needed a WR badly. Buffolo? Got one. Jets? Got one. Houston, got one. So where should he go?Where Quinn ended up is not a good indicator of their thoughts on him. Those teams had needs and the yfilled those needs.Listen, we can go round and round on Quinn's value - we have a difference of opinion. I don't even think should have gone in the top 5 for example. Others swear up and down he should have.Again, it's not about Quinn. It's about filling their highest priority need. Not BPA. That's just my opinion, I don't run a team (clearly). But logically, the only way you get better is fill a hole.The exception to that rule would be a Calvin Johnson type player -- the sort of dude who is just so much better than anyone else you can't pass him up.And even a player like that gets passed on for need. OAK had a much bigger need at QB. What good was CJ if nobody could get hi mthe ball -- and that's a guy considered a can't miss rookie.Or was OAk wrong in passing on him for need as opposed to BPA? Of course not.

 

[jurb26]

Or was OAk wrong in passing on him for need as opposed to BPA? Of course not.

I think Oak should have taken Thomas. I am/was higher on Thomas than a lot of people though. I think Thomas would have been just as good a pick as Calvin for Oak because they are that good and fill needs. I didn't care a great deal for the pick of Russell. I won't argue it however because Oak says they see a Franchise QB in him. Who am I to argue? Maybe he was not the "best" player in my eyes, but he would certainly be the hardest to find in the NFL if he truly is a franchise QB as they seem to think he is.

 

[Gargoylez]

With an aging defense, aging WR corps, no TE really to speak of, a Ofensive line that is not great by any means...

Ginn was maybe 5th or 6th on their need list. This was a luxury pick, very ballsy. The Bills were calling all over creation to move up to get Patrick Willis. Was the Dolphin phone NOT working? Going down a few spots and still getting Ginn (Houston did NOT want Ginn, at least not at that spot) and grabbing maybe another 2nd and 4th or something.

Not impressed with the Dolphins draft, they still have glaring holes, and I really don't see them doing much this year with the Jets, Patriots and even the Bills having a better off season then them. Basement dwellers again in the East?

 

[phthalatemagic]

Ultimately one mans trash (or project WR) is another man's treasure (or #9 pick). He's a WR - again clearly the Phins had him high. We don't know for sure about anyone else - we never will. One thing I didn't touch on -- it SUCKS that Cameron got booed at the event. I respect he stood there and tried to deal with the 'fans' in an adult manner - give them a reason why he thought Ginn was the best fit. That's class.Those Booing fans? yeah, not so much.

When it is OK to boo and when is it not?

 

[jetpack]

I've heard some Dolphin fan friends comment that Ginn is Peter Warrick all over again. Maybe that's an unfair and superficial comparison. Can someone enlightment me as to why they'd say that or if it's even accurate? I've looked at Ginn's highlight reel on youtube and its mostly him in open space so I can't get a sense of his ability to catch in traffic or fight off tackles. Is he good at those things? He's definitely fast. Can he block? Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Our Gang]

I can't think of too many big games when Ginn didn't look like the best athlete on the field. Beck is a future NFL starter too. Not to mention, Miami is going to end up with Trent Green this year. I think Brady Quinn is going to be a good NFL QB, but I still think it all makes sense.

I a miami hurricanes fan and I judge talent by what the oppossing teams players do against our best players- since we have a litany of sucessful nfl players.. One of the easier things to evaluate is the play of a wr/db. Ginn played against a couple of very good corners, aaron ross and leon hall. Well, he beat both of those guys off the line and blew by them for touchdowns. While his route running may need work, he is an extraordinary athlete...one of the best in this years draft class. What is the most impressive is that these NFL FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK CORNERBACKS ONLY HAD TO DEFEND ONE OF THREE ROUTES!!

 

[jurb26]

I can't think of too many big games when Ginn didn't look like the best athlete on the field. Beck is a future NFL starter too. Not to mention, Miami is going to end up with Trent Green this year. I think Brady Quinn is going to be a good NFL QB, but I still think it all makes sense.

I a miami hurricanes fan and I judge talent by what the oppossing teams players do against our best players- since we have a litany of sucessful nfl players.. One of the easier things to evaluate is the play of a wr/db. Ginn played against a couple of very good corners, aaron ross and leon hall. Well, he beat both of those guys off the line and blew by them for touchdowns. While his route running may need work, he is an extraordinary athlete...one of the best in this years draft class.

I agree. I would also say that I think Ginn getting injured on the opening KO vs. Florida was the major reason OSU was never in that game. With no Ginn to worry about, that O became very 1 dimensional and easy to stop. Not to mention the effects on the ST side of the game.

 

[NoFBinLA]

Ultimately one mans trash (or project WR) is another man's treasure (or #9 pick). He's a WR - again clearly the Phins had him high. We don't know for sure about anyone else - we never will. One thing I didn't touch on -- it SUCKS that Cameron got booed at the event. I respect he stood there and tried to deal with the 'fans' in an adult manner - give them a reason why he thought Ginn was the best fit. That's class.Those Booing fans? yeah, not so much.

When it is OK to boo and when is it not?

Between the hours of 3 and 5pm. Seriously though -- it seemed like the reaction went way past simple displeasure to outright aggro. Or maybe being a Jet fan I'm just used to bad picks and it seemed like an overreaction.

 

[Desert_Power]

Going down a few spots and still getting Ginn (Houston did NOT want Ginn, at least not at that spot) and grabbing maybe another 2nd and 4th or something.

Facts down?And also, it always amazes me how simple people think it must be to trade down or up in a draft.

 

[NoFBinLA]

Going down a few spots and still getting Ginn (Houston did NOT want Ginn, at least not at that spot) and grabbing maybe another 2nd and 4th or something.

Facts down?And also, it always amazes me how simple people think it must be to trade down or up in a draft.

I remember how much heat Houston got last year for not 'just trading down'.Lots of factors in that move -- I suspect even as hard as we think it might be (some of us) it's even more difficult to pull off and not regret it.

 

[NoFBinLA]

Going down a few spots and still getting Ginn (Houston did NOT want Ginn, at least not at that spot) and grabbing maybe another 2nd and 4th or something.

Facts down?And also, it always amazes me how simple people think it must be to trade down or up in a draft.

I remember how much heat Houston got last year for not 'just trading down'.Lots of factors in that move -- I suspect even as hard as we think it might be (some of us) it's even more difficult to pull off and not regret it.

 

[duaneok66]

Cam was talking about the guy's family?? Are you kidding me???

a #9 pick should not be used on a return guy. What has Dante Hall done in the last few years? Do you think Devin Hester will repeat last year's numbers??

And the guy isn't even healthy.

So Miami has a gimpy QB (Cpep), a gimpy WR, another WR that couldn't catch a cold (Chambers), no TE (McMichael left), and a questionable OL . . .

I only have two words for Cam . . .

good luck . . .

 

[Gargoylez]

Going down a few spots and still getting Ginn (Houston did NOT want Ginn, at least not at that spot) and grabbing maybe another 2nd and 4th or something.

Facts down?And also, it always amazes me how simple people think it must be to trade down or up in a draft.

I agree trading in any form in the NFL has to be very difficult.But my point was, there was definately a willing partner. If you know you can get the same player a few spots down. and get an extra pick or two, why not? If the Bills were not calling around then I probably would of said, they got stuck at that spot... but even DENVER weas burning up the phone lines to move up. Not that they could of got Ginn at that point, but to get nothing more then a punt/kick returner at spot #9? Thats alot fo money to be shelling out for that. In comparison the Chiefs got what? a 5th or a 4th for Hall and you can arguably say they are close to the same player.Miami blew the pick IMO. But thats my 2 cents

 

[fruity pebbles]

I think the drafting his family thing and knowing them for 10 years is what's pissing a lot fans off in particular. Whether true or not, it makes it seem like the guy drafted Ginn because he knew his family and he was doing them a favor.

 

[duaneok66]

I think the drafting his family thing and knowing them for 10 years is what's pissing a lot fans off in particular. Whether true or not, it makes it seem like the guy drafted Ginn because he knew his family and he was doing them a favor.

amen . . .

 

[massraider]

Ginn was gonna get brutalized no matter where he went. There would have been some people calling him a reach unless he went after CJ, Meacham, Bowe, and even Gonzales.

The fact that he went with Quinn on the board, just made it easier to knock the pick. It's a feeding frenzy, and everyone is getting thier shots in.

But he has special abilities, and the guy can be a game changer. He has a way to go as a WR, true. But do people really think he's just a punt returner? Did he accidentally slip behind Leon Hall and Aaron Ross last year? Is YouTube not working or something?

 

[duaneok66]

Ginn was gonna get brutalized no matter where he went. There would have been some people calling him a reach unless he went after CJ, Meacham, Bowe, and even Gonzales.The fact that he went with Quinn on the board, just made it easier to knock the pick. It's a feeding frenzy, and everyone is getting thier shots in.But he has special abilities, and the guy can be a game changer. He has a way to go as a WR, true. But do people really think he's just a punt returner? Did he accidentally slip behind Leon Hall and Aaron Ross last year? Is YouTube not working or something?

come on raider, Williamson had the same type film 2 years ago . . . now look at him . . .

 

[massraider]

Ginn was gonna get brutalized no matter where he went. There would have been some people calling him a reach unless he went after CJ, Meacham, Bowe, and even Gonzales.The fact that he went with Quinn on the board, just made it easier to knock the pick. It's a feeding frenzy, and everyone is getting thier shots in.But he has special abilities, and the guy can be a game changer. He has a way to go as a WR, true. But do people really think he's just a punt returner? Did he accidentally slip behind Leon Hall and Aaron Ross last year? Is YouTube not working or something?

come on raider, Williamson had the same type film 2 years ago . . . now look at him . . .

So did Randy Moss. And everyone from Dr. Z to they guy at the pub said he couldn't handle the press, run routes, and wouldn't be playing Marshall's schedule in the pros. Ted Ginn is the Fred Belitnikoff of route runners compared to Moss in college.I don't want to make it out like I think he's a lock to be a #1 WR, or theat he wasn't even a reach. I am not Ted Ginn fanboy. But this guy has gone from overrated, to underrated in one weekend. He has special speed. And the immediate response here is that speed in't everything, anmd it's overrated. Maybe. Still, Ted Ginn will be able to come into the league running three routes, and be able to help his team.

 

[duaneok66]

Ginn was gonna get brutalized no matter where he went. There would have been some people calling him a reach unless he went after CJ, Meacham, Bowe, and even Gonzales.The fact that he went with Quinn on the board, just made it easier to knock the pick. It's a feeding frenzy, and everyone is getting thier shots in.But he has special abilities, and the guy can be a game changer. He has a way to go as a WR, true. But do people really think he's just a punt returner? Did he accidentally slip behind Leon Hall and Aaron Ross last year? Is YouTube not working or something?

come on raider, Williamson had the same type film 2 years ago . . . now look at him . . .

So did Randy Moss. And everyone from Dr. Z to they guy at the pub said he couldn't handle the press, run routes, and wouldn't be playing Marshall's schedule in the pros. Ted Ginn is the Fred Belitnikoff of route runners compared to Moss in college.I don't want to make it out like I think he's a lock to be a #1 WR, or theat he wasn't even a reach. I am not Ted Ginn fanboy. But this guy has gone from overrated, to underrated in one weekend. He has special speed. And the immediate response here is that speed in't everything, anmd it's overrated. Maybe. Still, Ted Ginn will be able to come into the league running three routes, and be able to help his team.

the problem is that you should do more than "help" your team at #9 . . . and its an if . . . at 178 and with a boot, he's already a question mark to begin his NFL career . . .

 

[massraider]

Ginn was gonna get brutalized no matter where he went. There would have been some people calling him a reach unless he went after CJ, Meacham, Bowe, and even Gonzales.

The fact that he went with Quinn on the board, just made it easier to knock the pick. It's a feeding frenzy, and everyone is getting thier shots in.

But he has special abilities, and the guy can be a game changer. He has a way to go as a WR, true. But do people really think he's just a punt returner? Did he accidentally slip behind Leon Hall and Aaron Ross last year? Is YouTube not working or something?

come on raider, Williamson had the same type film 2 years ago . . . now look at him . . .

So did Randy Moss. And everyone from Dr. Z to they guy at the pub said he couldn't handle the press, run routes, and wouldn't be playing Marshall's schedule in the pros. Ted Ginn is the Fred Belitnikoff of route runners compared to Moss in college.I don't want to make it out like I think he's a lock to be a #1 WR, or theat he wasn't even a reach. I am not Ted Ginn fanboy. But this guy has gone from overrated, to underrated in one weekend. He has special speed. And the immediate response here is that speed in't everything, anmd it's overrated. Maybe. Still, Ted Ginn will be able to come into the league running three routes, and be able to help his team.

the problem is that you should do more than "help" your team at #9 . . . and its an if . . . at 178 and with a boot, he's already a question mark to begin his NFL career . . .

When I said that, I meant this year. Meaning he'll be able to help his team right away. What do you expect out of a rookie WR taken at #9? I'd like some numbers, please.