Mike Holmgren (1 Viewer)

[weasel3515]

First let me say, I was pulling for the Steelers but really hoped for a good game. I can't believe the ineptitude of Holmgren.

1. F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game. They march between the 20's and only get 10 points.

2. They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle. Still lose.

3. Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

4. Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11? What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up?

5. Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock.

Holmgren has always been a pass-first coach. Super Bowl record because of it: 1-2.

Say what you want about penalties, but Holmgren was just simply out-coached.

By the way, PolamaWho is way overrated too. Only 2 tackles before that last drive. He was out of position most of the game and missed several tackles.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

The Steelers and Seahawks O.Coordinators took the USC defenders out of the game.

 

[Not Really Mel Kiper]

First let me say, I was pulling for the Steelers but really hoped for a good game. I can't believe the ineptitude of Holmgren.

1. F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game. They march between the 20's and only get 10 points.

2. They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle. Still lose.

3. Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

4. Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11? What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up?

5. Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock.

Holmgren has always been a pass-first coach. Super Bowl record because of it: 1-2.

Say what you want about penalties, but Holmgren was just simply out-coached.

By the way, PolamaWho is way overrated too. Only 2 tackles before that last drive. He was out of position most of the game and missed several tackles.

Stop making stupid posts! How many NFL coaches have taken 2 teams to the SB?

 

[KingPrawn]

First let me say, I was pulling for the Steelers but really hoped for a good game. I can't believe the ineptitude of Holmgren.

1. F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game. They march between the 20's and only get 10 points.

2. They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle. Still lose.

3. Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

4. Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11? What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up?

5. Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock.

Holmgren has always been a pass-first coach. Super Bowl record because of it: 1-2.

Say what you want about penalties, but Holmgren was just simply out-coached.

By the way, PolamaWho is way overrated too. Only 2 tackles before that last drive. He was out of position most of the game and missed several tackles.

Hard to say a guy is over-rated when he's taken two different teams to a total of three Superbowls in 12-13 years as a headcoach

 

[bakes]

First let me say, I was pulling for the Steelers but really hoped for a good game. I can't believe the ineptitude of Holmgren.

1. F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game. They march between the 20's and only get 10 points.

2. They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle. Still lose.

3. Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

4. Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11? What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up?

5. Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock.

Holmgren has always been a pass-first coach. Super Bowl record because of it: 1-2.

Say what you want about penalties, but Holmgren was just simply out-coached.

By the way, PolamaWho is way overrated too. Only 2 tackles before that last drive. He was out of position most of the game and missed several tackles.

Solid post.Most of the time Polamalu was chasing someone he should have been covering. Troy, be a safety or be a linebacker. Don't be a safety watching the linebackers.

The game was there for the Hawks to take over - they didn't. The lack of use of both Alexander and (after the first quarter) DJax was sad.

That said,

 

[weasel3515]

First let me say, I was pulling for the Steelers but really hoped for a good game.  I can't believe the ineptitude of Holmgren. 

1.  F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game.  They march between the 20's and only get 10 points. 

2.  They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle.  Still lose.

3.  Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes?  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

4.  Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11?  What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up? 

5.  Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock. 

Holmgren has always been a pass-first coach.  Super Bowl record because of it: 1-2. 

Say what you want about penalties, but Holmgren was just simply out-coached.

By the way, PolamaWho is way overrated too.  Only 2 tackles before that last drive.  He was out of position most of the game and missed several tackles.

Stop making stupid posts! How many NFL coaches have taken 2 teams to the SB?

Stupid post? Why is what I said stupid? If you can make sound arguments against my points (other than the Polamalu one-I'll give you that, I just can't stand the guy) then you might have a case.

 

[trader jake]

Hard to say a guy is over-rated when he's taken two different teams to a total of three Superbowls in 12-13 years as a headcoach

and was on the brink of doing something tonight that no other coach in the history of the league has accomplisheddid holmgren make some errors tonight? you betbad head coach? no way

 

[weasel3515]

First let me say, I was pulling for the Steelers but really hoped for a good game.  I can't believe the ineptitude of Holmgren. 

1.  F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game.  They march between the 20's and only get 10 points. 

2.  They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle.  Still lose.

3.  Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes?  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

4.  Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11?  What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up? 

5.  Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock. 

Holmgren has always been a pass-first coach.  Super Bowl record because of it: 1-2. 

Say what you want about penalties, but Holmgren was just simply out-coached.

By the way, PolamaWho is way overrated too.  Only 2 tackles before that last drive.  He was out of position most of the game and missed several tackles.

Solid post.Most of the time Polamalu was chasing someone he should have been covering. Troy, be a safety or be a linebacker. Don't be a safety watching the linebackers.

The game was there for the Hawks to take over - they didn't. The lack of use of both Alexander and (after the first quarter) DJax was sad.

That said,

Thanks for the support. Glad someone else on here knows something about football.

 

[Challenge Everything]

First let me say, I was pulling for the Steelers but really hoped for a good game.  I can't believe the ineptitude of Holmgren. 

1.  F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game.  They march between the 20's and only get 10 points. 

2.  They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle.  Still lose.

3.  Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes?  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

4.  Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11?  What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up? 

5.  Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock. 

Holmgren has always been a pass-first coach.  Super Bowl record because of it: 1-2. 

Say what you want about penalties, but Holmgren was just simply out-coached.

By the way, PolamaWho is way overrated too.  Only 2 tackles before that last drive.  He was out of position most of the game and missed several tackles.

Stop making stupid posts! How many NFL coaches have taken 2 teams to the SB?

Stupid post? Why is what I said stupid? If you can make sound arguments against my points (other than the Polamalu one-I'll give you that, I just can't stand the guy) then you might have a case.

Yes, yes. Solid points need to be made thus the originator of the thread needs to make them. Solid points against unsolid points will get us nowhere. Make solid points first and people will respond with other solid points.

 

[weasel3515]

Hard to say a guy is over-rated when he's taken two different teams to a total of three Superbowls in 12-13 years as a headcoach

and was on the brink of doing something tonight that no other coach in the history of the league has accomplisheddid holmgren make some errors tonight? you bet

bad head coach? no way

Not saying he is a bad coach. But the "genius" they make him out to be? No way. And, sorry, but I think the NFC (and especially the NFC West) was a lot less competetive than the AFC (and AFC North in particular).

 

[trader jake]

First let me say, I was pulling for the Steelers but really hoped for a good game.  I can't believe the ineptitude of Holmgren. 

1.  F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game.  They march between the 20's and only get 10 points. 

2.  They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle.  Still lose.

3.  Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes?  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

4.  Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11?  What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up? 

5.  Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock. 

Holmgren has always been a pass-first coach.  Super Bowl record because of it: 1-2. 

Say what you want about penalties, but Holmgren was just simply out-coached.

By the way, PolamaWho is way overrated too.  Only 2 tackles before that last drive.  He was out of position most of the game and missed several tackles.

Solid post.Most of the time Polamalu was chasing someone he should have been covering. Troy, be a safety or be a linebacker. Don't be a safety watching the linebackers.

The game was there for the Hawks to take over - they didn't. The lack of use of both Alexander and (after the first quarter) DJax was sad.

That said,

Thanks for the support. Glad someone else on here knows something about football.

notice a lot of split backfields and trip wideouts to one side? that's to dictate where troy would be on the field in order to take him out of the game. not bad for an overrated coach

 

[weasel3515]

First let me say, I was pulling for the Steelers but really hoped for a good game.  I can't believe the ineptitude of Holmgren. 

1.  F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game.  They march between the 20's and only get 10 points. 

2.  They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle.  Still lose.

3.  Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes?  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

4.  Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11?  What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up? 

5.  Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock. 

Holmgren has always been a pass-first coach.  Super Bowl record because of it: 1-2. 

Say what you want about penalties, but Holmgren was just simply out-coached.

By the way, PolamaWho is way overrated too.  Only 2 tackles before that last drive.  He was out of position most of the game and missed several tackles.

Stop making stupid posts! How many NFL coaches have taken 2 teams to the SB?

Stupid post? Why is what I said stupid? If you can make sound arguments against my points (other than the Polamalu one-I'll give you that, I just can't stand the guy) then you might have a case.

Yes, yes. Solid points need to be made thus the originator of the thread needs to make them. Solid points against unsolid points will get us nowhere. Make solid points first and people will respond with other solid points.

What was not solid in my first argument?

 

[weasel3515]

First let me say, I was pulling for the Steelers but really hoped for a good game.  I can't believe the ineptitude of Holmgren. 

1.  F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game.  They march between the 20's and only get 10 points. 

2.  They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle.  Still lose.

3.  Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes?  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

4.  Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11?  What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up? 

5.  Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock. 

Holmgren has always been a pass-first coach.  Super Bowl record because of it: 1-2. 

Say what you want about penalties, but Holmgren was just simply out-coached.

By the way, PolamaWho is way overrated too.  Only 2 tackles before that last drive.  He was out of position most of the game and missed several tackles.

Solid post.Most of the time Polamalu was chasing someone he should have been covering. Troy, be a safety or be a linebacker. Don't be a safety watching the linebackers.

The game was there for the Hawks to take over - they didn't. The lack of use of both Alexander and (after the first quarter) DJax was sad.

That said,

Thanks for the support. Glad someone else on here knows something about football.

notice a lot of split backfields and trip wideouts to one side? that's to dictate where troy would be on the field in order to take him out of the game. not bad for an overrated coach

So does this go to Holmgren's credit or a knock on Polamalu for allowing himself to be taken out of the plays?

 

[Challenge Everything]

1.  F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game.  They march between the 20's and only get 10 points.  Brown missed 2 field goals which would bump up to 16 and may even have changed the effect of future plays/drives had they been made.  Holmgren cannot be blamed for giving his kicker an opportunity.  He is a kicker... distance, unless it is like 70 yards away, rarely matters.  In a dome no less.

2.  They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle.  Still lose.Give credit to the Steelers defense.  Holmgren always played the bend-but-dont-break defense and that is what his did today.  His offense sputtered but that has to do with the defense and dropped balls.  Blame Holmgren there too?

3.  Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes?  Stupid, stupid, stupid.Again, defense of Pitt.  Seattle went down 14-3 and were not moving the ball by running.  Have to pass.  Again, Stevens holds on to some of those passes and they move the ball... AND... coverage swings his way thus negating the double teams on Jackson.  Running the ball does not move coverage around.

4.  Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11?  What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up?He trusted his defense.  Look at what the Pitt offesne did... nothing.  Ben threw for nothing and completed nothing... the defense did its job.  Position on the field was important and punting, while maybe not the best play, is understandable.

5.  Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock.Again, this is on Hassleback.  Did Holmgren throw the ball?

 

[KingPrawn]

1.  F*rts away opportunity after opportunity during the game.  They march between the 20's and only get 10 points.  Brown missed 2 field goals which would bump up to 16 and may even have changed the effect of future plays/drives had they been made.  Holmgren cannot be blamed for giving his kicker an opportunity.  He is a kicker... distance, unless it is like 70 yards away, rarely matters.  In a dome no less.

2.  They outgain the Steelers in both yardage AND win the turnover battle.  Still lose.Give credit to the Steelers defense.  Holmgren always played the bend-but-dont-break defense and that is what his did today.  His offense sputtered but that has to do with the defense and dropped balls.  Blame Holmgren there too?

3.  Have the best RB (arguably) in pro football AND the best tackle (Walter Jones), their RB gets close to 5 yards a rush and still attempt 49 passes?  Stupid, stupid, stupid.Again, defense of Pitt.  Seattle went down 14-3 and were not moving the ball by running.  Have to pass.  Again, Stevens holds on to some of those passes and they move the ball... AND... coverage swings his way thus negating the double teams on Jackson.  Running the ball does not move coverage around.

4.  Punting from midfield with only 6:20 left and down by 11?  What, they think they are going to score that much in a lot less time after (if) they force the Steelers to give it up?He trusted his defense.  Look at what the Pitt offesne did... nothing.  Ben threw for nothing and completed nothing... the defense did its job.  Position on the field was important and punting, while maybe not the best play, is understandable.

5.  Passing for 5 yards across the middle on the last possession that eats up a half minute off the clock.Again, this is on Hassleback.  Did Holmgren throw the ball?

Very solid points!!!

 

[weasel3515]

My rebuttal:

1. Opportunities. My contention was that Seattle should NOT have had to rely on 3 long range field goals when they were moving the ball so well. Let's look at the immediate plays leading up to the 3 FG attempts:

First attempt (good)

1-10 Pitt 16 Offensive interference on D-Jack. Player's fault or coaches fault for not coaching him NOT to do this. If he cut left he may have had a clean TD.

1-20 Alexander RIGHT end for 1 yard. This is not the strong side of the line.

2-19 Alexander Left END for -4 yards. Alexander's best gains were between the tackles, not to the end.

3-23 Incomplete pass (dictated by bad situation as a result of bad plays/coaching)

Second attempt (miss)

1-10 Pitt 40 Deep pass out of bounds to D-Jack. Why not keep moving the chains instead of a low-percentage pass that puts you behind the 8-ball.

2-10 Alexander LEFT TACKLE for 4 yards. Best play called.

3-6 Pass to D-Jack out of bounds. Again, Alexander underutilized.

Third attempt (miss)

1-10 Pitt 37 Incomplete pass to Stevens (drop). Stevens fault here.

2-10 Alexander up middle for 5 yards. Good call again. Too bad Holmgren doesn't realize it.

3-5 Incomplete pass to D-Jack. Why not run again?

2. You admitted the offense sputtered. Why was that? Is it all on the players or does the coach get no responsibility unless he wins?

3. Down 14-3 with an entire half does not mean you have to pass. Ask anybody. This is the best point of Holmgren's ineptitude.

4. I quote you-"punting, while maybe not the best play, is understandable". Understandable during the regular season, maybe. During the SB? Inexcusable. And Pittsburgh did do something--they ate up the clock. That was my point.

5. Pass for 5 yards that uses up 30 seconds. Shouldn't the coach have told Hasselbeck UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES throw it over the middle. Throw an incompletion that would have stopped the clock. Coaching again.

 

[BGP]

I think the Seahawks should have smothered that option TD pass. I was charting almost every formation as it came down and that one was bizarre for the Steelers. Without looking back at the tape, I don't think they went singleback/3 WR like that AND had the one WR so far off the LOS until that play. Turns out he was back that far to take the handoff. I dunno if that was it or not, it just looked "off".

If I noticed it, Seattle sure should have.

 

[packersfan]

I don't think Holmgren is over-rated. How is he to blame for two very suspect calls that went against his team in this game? Reverse those calls and maybe we're talking about Holmgren doing something no head coach in NFL history has ever done.

That said, I will agree his decision to punt with a little over 6 minutes to go was highly questionable. I realize 4th-and-13 is not an easy down by any means but that was the ballgame right there. It was simply not realistic to assume his defense was going to make two stops and his offense was going to then score twice in just 6 minutes. Was it within the realm of possibility that could happen? Sure, anything's possible. But the odds were extremely against that occurring.

That's why I think he should have gone for it. If he didn't get it the game's over. The fact he punted pretty much meant the game was over as well. With the game on the line I was surprised Holmgren took the safe way out instead of trusting his very capable and explosive offense to make a big play that would've kept the game alive.

 

[weasel3515]

I don't think Holmgren is over-rated. How is he to blame for two very suspect calls that went against his team in this game? Reverse those calls and maybe we're talking about Holmgren doing something no head coach in NFL history has ever done.

That said, I will agree his decision to punt with a little over 6 minutes to go was highly questionable. I realize 4th-and-13 is not an easy down by any means but that was the ballgame right there. It was simply not realistic to assume his defense was going to make two stops and his offense was going to then score twice in just 6 minutes. Was it within the realm of possibility that could happen? Sure, anything's possible. But the odds were extremely against that occurring.

That's why I think he should have gone for it. If he didn't get it the game's over. The fact he punted pretty much meant the game was over as well. With the game on the line I was surprised Holmgren took the safe way out instead of trusting his very capable and explosive offense to make a big play that would've kept the game alive.

Thank you, that was my point as well.

 

[packersfan]

I didn't think Holmgren got out-coached in this game. It's not like the Steelers played this incredible game and Cowher did a masterful job of coaching.

Now if you want to go to a Super Bowl game where Holmgren did get outcoached just go back to the Packers' loss to the Broncos. Shanahan coached circles around Holmgren in that game IMO.

 

[Team Tosh]

I didn't think Holmgren got out-coached in this game. It's not like the Steelers played this incredible game and Cowher did a masterful job of coaching.

Now if you want to go to a Super Bowl game where Holmgren did get outcoached just go back to the Packers' loss to the Broncos. Shanahan coached circles around Holmgren in that game IMO.

I was just going to say that about the Packer-Bronco Super Bowl. After that game, I didn't mind Holmgren leaving. Now I wish we still had him. He didn't call Leven's number enough that game.

 

[weasel3515]

Then in a loss like this (not a blowout where you can blame it on the talent level) you have to look at coaching. Hence, Holmgren got outcoached.

 

[BGP]

Then in a loss like this (not a blowout where you can blame it on the talent level) you have to look at coaching. Hence, Holmgren got outcoached.

I can't think of a good reason to be burned by a gadget play like that option pass for a TD on the NFL level. If it succeeds, that's the fault of the club that was on defense. An NFL defense should have more discipline than that.

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

I thought the sequence at the end was terrible.

There are a lot of things Holmgren does well - talent eval, QB grooming...but at a gametime decision maker he really pooped the bed here.

They need a TD here,; here's a novel idea - throw it to somebody in the END ZONE. just once?

 

[weasel3515]

I thought the sequence at the end was terrible.

There are a lot of things Holmgren does well - talent eval, QB grooming...but at a gametime decision maker he really pooped the bed here.

They need a TD here,; here's a novel idea - throw it to somebody in the END ZONE. just once?

Best quote of the day!

 

[tombonneau]

I thought the sequence at the end was terrible.

There are a lot of things Holmgren does well - talent eval, QB grooming...but at a gametime decision maker he really pooped the bed here.

They need a TD here,; here's a novel idea - throw it to somebody in the END ZONE. just once?

Let's also not forget the extremely suspect clock management-playcalling at the end of the first half. He basically flushed all that time down the toilet, which wasn't nec. a bad thing, as it makes you think they are just going to play for the FG and try to pick up 8-15 yds of cushion in the middle of the field with only 10-15 secs in the half.But instead they take a shot way down towards the goalline, forcing Brown to attempt a 50+ FG. At the very least they should have run a draw to SA or a simply 5 yd TE slant or something to give him a bit more room.

But the lackadaisacal approach halfway through the 4th was real bad. Reminded me of Reid and the Eagles last year in the SB. No real sense of urgency or anything. Just huddling up burning time.

Dumb.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Why do I think Herman Edwards was sitting on his couch at home yelling at his TV complaining about Holmgren's clock management? I mean that was some serious p-poor clock handling there.

Why fail to hurry up at 8 minutes? (I disagreed with Madden on this). If you hurry it up, you probably get 3 possesions not 2. Scoring on 2 out of 3 possessions is a lot easier than 2 out of 2. The S'quawks catch the break with the (correct) replay review at 8 minutes and they saunter up to the line with a running clock and do a running play? And does one guy know how to do a sideline route (obviously so - just look at the first 3 passes by H-beck).

And Brown is worth a 54 and 50 yard FG attempt, but not a 42 yarder?!? Rather it's better to throw over the middle? Madness. I was almost surprised Hasselbeck didn't spike the clock on that last 4th down play

-QG

 

[BigTuna]

I got to the title and decided its not even worth reading. You sound like those fans they make fun of on the commercial.

"First thing I'd do, is fire mike holmgren".

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Holmgren did two things yesteday and those were his weaknesses while with GB.

1. Weak clock management.

2. Went away from the running game just like he did in Super Bowl XXXII.