Mike Shanahan: Should he be on the hot seat? (1 Viewer)

[Jason Wood]

I have no reason to think Mike Shanahan will be on the hot seat as it seems he has earned a lifetime contract in Pat Bowlen's eyes. That said, should Shanny be under pressure? You can't dismiss the two Super Bowl titles or his success over the long term, but it's been awhile since the Broncos were a legitimate contender.

The Eagles destruction of the Cowboys had led to just about every talking head to openly suggest that Wade Phillips should be fired. The logic being that a talented team collapsed down the stretch, and was blown out in a play-in game. Yet, if you look at things the Cowboys still finished at 9-7; yet the Broncos finished 8-8 and ALSO got blown out in a win-and-you're-in game against a division foe. Why isn't Shanny being called to task? Didn't his team collapse down the stretch, too?

Before we hear the declaration of "but Denver had 8 running backs on IR", let's keep this in perspective. Every team suffers major injuries, and the truth is the Broncos run game was hardly the only problem spot. The defense has been horrendous for a long time, in spite of Shanny's trade of Portis for Champ Bailey several years ago.

Since winning those two Super Bowls [and also losing John Elway and a healthy Terrell Davis],

Shanny =

91 wins in 10 seasons [9.1 per season]

4 playoff appearances

1 playoff win

4 playoff losses

1 division title

Is one playoff win and one division title over 10 years enough? Would any other head coach be given such a long leash?

 

[Autumn Wind]

The problem with Shanny isn't so much his coaching abilities as his GM ones. Would he accept going back to just being a HC?

 

[BassNBrew]

He and his team quit in the Carolina game. Time for a change in Denver.

 

[Banger]

I have no reason to think Mike Shanahan will be on the hot seat as it seems he has earned a lifetime contract in Pat Bowlen's eyes. That said, should Shanny be under pressure? You can't dismiss the two Super Bowl titles or his success over the long term, but it's been awhile since the Broncos were a legitimate contender. The Eagles destruction of the Cowboys had led to just about every talking head to openly suggest that Wade Phillips should be fired. The logic being that a talented team collapsed down the stretch, and was blown out in a play-in game. Yet, if you look at things the Cowboys still finished at 9-7; yet the Broncos finished 8-8 and ALSO got blown out in a win-and-you're-in game against a division foe. Why isn't Shanny being called to task? Didn't his team collapse down the stretch, too?Before we hear the declaration of "but Denver had 8 running backs on IR", let's keep this in perspective. Every team suffers major injuries, and the truth is the Broncos run game was hardly the only problem spot. The defense has been horrendous for a long time, in spite of Shanny's trade of Portis for Champ Bailey several years ago.Since winning those two Super Bowls [and also losing John Elway and a healthy Terrell Davis],Shanny =91 wins in 10 seasons [9.1 per season]4 playoff appearances1 playoff win4 playoff losses1 division titleIs one playoff win and one division title over 10 years enough? Would any other head coach be given such a long leash?

No, most other coach's wouldn't be given such a long leash. I don't think he'll be on the hot seat, should he be? Yes. I think he's a good offensive coach but their defense has been terrible for years and he keeps trying to do it with retreads. They need some talent on their defense and have needed it for a while.

 

[gianmarco]

Getting rid of Shanahan now would be akin to the Steelers getting rid of Cowher before he was finally able to put it all together. Since 1999, Shanahan has had only 1 losing season (7-9 last year). The reason people aren't saying the same things about Shanahan that they are about Wade Phillips despite similar disappointments this year is that Shanahan has proven he can win.

Denver needs to get a defense and quick. That's what's keeping them from taking over the AFC West again. And let's not forget, very recently they were a 13-3 team that was one of the most dominant teams that year.

Unproven, losing coaches don't get more than 3-4 years to produce results. Proven guys like Fisher, Shanahan, Cowher, Belichick always will and should.

 

[Buckna]

Historic collapse that should get more press. The first time EVER that a team led their division for the whole season and did not make the playoffs.

 

[Banger]

Getting rid of Shanahan now would be akin to the Steelers getting rid of Cowher before he was finally able to put it all together. Since 1999, Shanahan has had only 1 losing season (7-9 last year). The reason people aren't saying the same things about Shanahan that they are about Wade Phillips despite similar disappointments this year is that Shanahan has proven he can win.Denver needs to get a defense and quick. That's what's keeping them from taking over the AFC West again. And let's not forget, very recently they were a 13-3 team that was one of the most dominant teams that year.Unproven, losing coaches don't get more than 3-4 years to produce results. Proven guys like Fisher, Shanahan, Cowher, Belichick always will and should.

I agree that he's a good coach but he needs to do something on the defensive side of the ball. Get new talent evaluators, a new coach, new scheme, something. Their line improved over last year, they have good talent at the wideout and TE so they probably won't change much on that side of the ball. The defense they need to blow up and start over.

 

[Jason Wood]

Historic collapse that should get more press. The first time EVER that a team led their division for the whole season and did not make the playoffs.

This is what I'm talking about I also think you can't extricate the GM issue from this decision, because Shanny has had effectively complete control of this organization for a long time. Should Bowlen bring in a real GM, and if he did that, would Shanny balk and leave for other pastures?

 

[gianmarco]

Getting rid of Shanahan now would be akin to the Steelers getting rid of Cowher before he was finally able to put it all together. Since 1999, Shanahan has had only 1 losing season (7-9 last year). The reason people aren't saying the same things about Shanahan that they are about Wade Phillips despite similar disappointments this year is that Shanahan has proven he can win.Denver needs to get a defense and quick. That's what's keeping them from taking over the AFC West again. And let's not forget, very recently they were a 13-3 team that was one of the most dominant teams that year.Unproven, losing coaches don't get more than 3-4 years to produce results. Proven guys like Fisher, Shanahan, Cowher, Belichick always will and should.

I agree that he's a good coach but he needs to do something on the defensive side of the ball. Get new talent evaluators, a new coach, new scheme, something. Their line improved over last year, they have good talent at the wideout and TE so they probably won't change much on that side of the ball. The defense they need to blow up and start over.

Agree 100%. The defense is the big issue and I think it's finally become readily apparent (if it wasn't before) that this is what is holding this team back. Will be interesting to see what they do in the offseason/draft to address this.

 

[Da Guru]

He and his team quit in the Carolina game. Time for a change in Denver.

I agree. Shanny looks like he is pondering his future in this photo.

 

[RBM]

Absolutely SHOULD be on the hot seat. 1 playoff win since Elway and TD were around. Some awful personnel decisions on defense.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The defense has been horrendous for a long time, in spite of Shanny's trade of Portis for Champ Bailey several years ago.

They've been bad the last two seasons, but they were top 10 in overall defense in '03, '04, '05 and '06. In regards to the question, yes, he should be on the hot seat, but he probably isn't. Bowlen loves the guy, so I think he stays there as long as he wants. And as little playoff success as he has had since Elway's retirement, most teams would love to have a coach who averages 9 wins a season over a 10-year span.

 

[Smeagol]

Who would replace him? In-house hire? Cowher (Apparently 3/4 of the league will be chasing him this offseason)? Holmgren? Someone from the college ranks?

 

[gianmarco]

The defense has been horrendous for a long time, in spite of Shanny's trade of Portis for Champ Bailey several years ago.

They've been bad the last two seasons, but they were top 10 in overall defense in '03, '04, '05 and '06. In regards to the question, yes, he should be on the hot seat, but he probably isn't. Bowlen loves the guy, so I think he stays there as long as he wants. And as little playoff success as he has had since Elway's retirement, most teams would love to have a coach who averages 9 wins a season over a 10-year span.

It's only been the last 2 years that Denver's defense has fallen apart. Even back in 2006, they were ranked 8th in ppg allowed. As I said above, I think Shanahan will definitely address that issue this offseason as it's pretty clear what the issue is with the team right now. How he addresses it and how successful he is in doing so will say a lot about what kind of coach/GM he is.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I dont think this current team that good.

He's a good coach but that D is horrible and they had 7 RB's on the IR this season. Outside of Cutler-Marshall-Royal-Scheffler not alot to work with.

Is he responsible for the D personel? I think he might be a combo Coach/GM right?

I dont know who you would get better, maybe relieve him of GM duties

 

[Buffaloes]

I dont think this current team that good. He's a good coach but that D is horrible and they had 7 RB's on the IR this season. Outside of Cutler-Marshall-Royal-Scheffler not alot to work with.Is he responsible for the D personel? I think he might be a combo Coach/GM right? I dont know who you would get better, maybe relieve him of GM duties

Denver has a top flight offense. You mention the 7 RBs on IR. That is a problem. But they have a young core of offensive talent and their OL might have been the best it has been since the Super Bowl years. Denver's problem is on the defense and special teams. Should Shanahan be on the hot seat? I think so. But I don't think he will be. He will probably maintain complete control. If that is the case, I think the defense will probably be in trouble again next year. When was the last time Denver drafted a complete difference maker on defense? A Pro Bowl quality guy? I think you have to go back to the Al Wilson pick.

 

[H.K.]

The defense has been horrendous for a long time, in spite of Shanny's trade of Portis for Champ Bailey several years ago.

They've been bad the last two seasons, but they were top 10 in overall defense in '03, '04, '05 and '06.

In regards to the question, yes, he should be on the hot seat, but he probably isn't. Bowlen loves the guy, so I think he stays there as long as he wants. And as little playoff success as he has had since Elway's retirement, most teams would love to have a coach who averages 9 wins a season over a 10-year span.

I'd like to see the list of teams who have more than 91 wins the past ten years.Shanny deserves some credit this season for putting the team in a position to win the division in the first place. Lots of young talent on offense (which he put there), obviously the D needs work, but as your post shows, Shanny has usually put strong defenses on the field.

Give the owner credit, too. He knows what he has, its not like HOF coaches grow on trees. Two losing seasons in 12 years. Lots of franchises would take that in a heartbeat.

 

[thesurfshop19]

I don't think it's even close.

Honestly, unless the team has 3 consecutive losing seasons, I'm frankly okay with the generally "okay to pretty good" level of play the Broncos put up. It's not tolerating mediocrity so much as it is recognizing that not every team can win, particularly without a top-shelf quarterback (hi, Griese and Plummer ), and think about how many other teams would love to have this "problem" of being competitive but not dominant.

He's not the best coach in the league, and the Broncos certainly had a disastrous collapse. But looking at the season in total, and not just the past few weeks, I think the team made some clear strides offensively that can be built off of next year. Keep in mind just how young a lot of the principal players are on offense.

It's no secret that the Broncos are going to devote their entire offseason to shoring up the defense, which was as bad as I can ever remember a Denver defense being. Turn that defense around and this team is a legitimate playoff contender. Even if the Broncos had made the playoffs this year, they'd have been wiped out by the Colts in another postseason rout, and at least 2 of their wins (Chargers and Saints) were incredibly lucky.

I think Broncos fans in general are willing to be patient -- it's only been 10 years since back-to-back championships, and Mike Shanahan is still the man most responsible for that happening (since, as savvy fans know, John Elway has never won a playoff game without Shanahan as a key offensive coach for the Broncos).

 

[ffldrew]

I don't think it's even close.

Honestly, unless the team has 3 consecutive losing seasons, I'm frankly okay with the generally "okay to pretty good" level of play the Broncos put up. It's not tolerating mediocrity so much as it is recognizing that not every team can win, particularly without a top-shelf quarterback (hi, Griese and Plummer ), and think about how many other teams would love to have this "problem" of being competitive but not dominant.

He's not the best coach in the league, and the Broncos certainly had a disastrous collapse. But looking at the season in total, and not just the past few weeks, I think the team made some clear strides offensively that can be built off of next year. Keep in mind just how young a lot of the principal players are on offense.

It's no secret that the Broncos are going to devote their entire offseason to shoring up the defense, which was as bad as I can ever remember a Denver defense being. Turn that defense around and this team is a legitimate playoff contender. Even if the Broncos had made the playoffs this year, they'd have been wiped out by the Colts in another postseason rout, and at least 2 of their wins (Chargers and Saints) were incredibly lucky.

I think Broncos fans in general are willing to be patient -- it's only been 10 years since back-to-back championships, and Mike Shanahan is still the man most responsible for that happening (since, as savvy fans know, John Elway has never won a playoff game without Shanahan as a key offensive coach for the Broncos).

Or even more savvy fans know that Mike Shanahan has only won 1 playoff game without John Elway.

 

[thesurfshop19]

Or even more savvy fans know that Mike Shanahan has only won 1 playoff game without John Elway.

This has been so overquoted in the past 10 years, that few people remember the reverse (that Elway never won without Shanahan). Hence why I threw it in there.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

This is part of the reason why teams don't stay competitive. They don't stick with a good thing. Shanahan has shown that he is a winner - why would you get rid of him. I think the Jets made a HUGE mistake getting rid of Mangini. You don't get rid of a coach that wins consistently.

 

[Whiplash Inc.]

Historic collapse that should get more press. The first time EVER that a team led their division for the whole season and did not make the playoffs.

 

[jestertj]

If he was let go he'd be unemployed for about 10 seconds. He's a good coach. If they have one good draft defensively, they're right back in the mix.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I'd like to see the list of teams who have more than 91 wins the past ten years.

My guess would be New England, Indy, Pittsburgh and maybe Philly.

 

[Jason Wood]

Or even more savvy fans know that Mike Shanahan has only won 1 playoff game without John Elway.

This has been so overquoted in the past 10 years, that few people remember the reverse (that Elway never won without Shanahan). Hence why I threw it in there.

Let's not mix metaphors. Shanny has one playoff win without Elway. Elway had SEVEN [7] without Shanny. Huge difference.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Let's not mix metaphors. Shanny has one playoff win without Elway. Elway had SEVEN [7] without Shanny. Huge difference.

IIRC, Elway won all of his playoff games when Shanahan was working for the Broncos in some capacity. Also, even though I am very frustrated with the Broncos lack of success the last few seasons, let's remember that three years ago, Shanny did coach the Broncos to the AFC title game...with Jake Plummer as his QB.

 

[ffldrew]

I'd like to see the list of teams who have more than 91 wins the past ten years.

My guess would be New England, Indy, Pittsburgh and maybe Philly.

Along with those above Tennessee, Green Bay, Baltimore at or above - Tampa and NYG very close.

 

[H.K.]

I'd like to see the list of teams who have more than 91 wins the past ten years.

My guess would be New England, Indy, Pittsburgh and maybe Philly.

Indy has 113 (Manning), NE 110(BB/Brady), Pitt 99 (Cowher), Phi 97 (Reid/McNabb), Tenn 96 (Fisher), GB 92 (Favre).While the Colts, Pats, Packers & Eagles have had stud QB play the past decade, only Cowher, Fisher, and Shanahan won consistently with multiple QB's over the years.No surprise that Shanny excelled with Elway, but he's more than held his own without him.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'd like to see the list of teams who have more than 91 wins the past ten years.

Shanny deserves some credit this season for putting the team in a position to win the division in the first place. Lots of young talent on offense (which he put there), obviously the D needs work, but as your post shows, Shanny has usually put strong defenses on the field.

Give the owner credit, too. He knows what he has, its not like HOF coaches grow on trees. Two losing seasons in 12 years. Lots of franchises would take that in a heartbeat.

Good question:Most Wins, NFL Regular Season [1999-2008]

Indianapolis Colts -- 113 wins [11.3 per season]

New England Patriots -- 110 wins [11.0 per season]

Pittsburgh Steelers -- 100 wins [10.0 per season]

Philadelphia Eagles -- 97 wins [9.7 per season]

Tennessee Titans -- 96 wins [9.6 per season]

Green Bay Packers -- 92 wins [9.2 per season]

Denver Broncos -- 91 wins [9.1 per season]

Baltimore Ravens -- 91 wins [9.1 per season]

Looks pretty compelling, no? But what if you cut it a different way? Take a look at the list of teams with more playoff wins over that span...

Atlanta [2]

Baltimore [5]**

Carolina [5]

Chicago [2]

Green Bay [3]

Indianapolis [7]**

Jacksonville [2]

Miami [2]

Minnesota [3]

New England [14]**

New Orleans [2]

New York Giants [6]**

New York Jets [2]

Oakland [4]

Philadelphia [8]

Pittsburgh [7]**

San Diego [2]

Seattle [4]

St. Louis [6]**

Tampa Bay [4]**

Tennessee [5]

Washington [2]

Twenty two teams [22] have won more playoff games in the last decade than Denver. Admittedly if we extended this back two years and looked at 12 year data, it would paint quite a different picture. So I understand [and even admire to an extent] Bowlen's patience and steadiness, but in a "what have you done for me lately league", very few coaches would be given the leash Shanny has been given.

 

[ceo3west]

No surprise that Shanny excelled with Elway, but he's more than held his own without him.

How is 1 playoff win in 10 years "holding his own"?

 

[thesurfshop19]

Let's not mix metaphors. Shanny has one playoff win without Elway. Elway had SEVEN [7] without Shanny. Huge difference.

IIRC, Elway won all of his playoff games when Shanahan was working for the Broncos in some capacity. Also, even though I am very frustrated with the Broncos lack of success the last few seasons, let's remember that three years ago, Shanny did coach the Broncos to the AFC title game...with Jake Plummer as his QB.

This is correct. The offensive coordinator or similar capacity in every single Elway playoff victory. You'd think someone would at least check that before trying to correct it.

 

[Jason Wood]

Let's not mix metaphors. Shanny has one playoff win without Elway. Elway had SEVEN [7] without Shanny. Huge difference.

IIRC, Elway won all of his playoff games when Shanahan was working for the Broncos in some capacity. Also, even though I am very frustrated with the Broncos lack of success the last few seasons, let's remember that three years ago, Shanny did coach the Broncos to the AFC title game...with Jake Plummer as his QB.

This is correct. The offensive coordinator or similar capacity in every single Elway playoff victory. You'd think someone would at least check that before trying to correct it.

We're discussing Shanny's role as a head coach, trying to obfuscate his lack of playoff success in the last decade by throwing out the cliched Elway comparison only mucks up the conversation, since it started by acknowledging that Shanny WITH Elway and TD were a fantastic combination.

 

[ffldrew]

Let's not mix metaphors. Shanny has one playoff win without Elway. Elway had SEVEN [7] without Shanny. Huge difference.

IIRC, Elway won all of his playoff games when Shanahan was working for the Broncos in some capacity. Also, even though I am very frustrated with the Broncos lack of success the last few seasons, let's remember that three years ago, Shanny did coach the Broncos to the AFC title game...with Jake Plummer as his QB.

This is correct. The offensive coordinator or similar capacity in every single Elway playoff victory. You'd think someone would at least check that before trying to correct it.

I don't think he was around in the 89 season when he started as Raider HC and Broncos went to SB(only to get pounded by SF) - but they did win AFC title without Shanahan if I'm not mistaken.

 

[thesurfshop19]

We're discussing Shanny's role as a head coach, trying to obfuscate his lack of playoff success in the last decade by throwing out the cliched Elway comparison only mucks up the conversation, since it started by acknowledging that Shanny WITH Elway and TD were a fantastic combination.

I agree here.It was a throwaway line in post #18 that got quoted. Apologies for the mini-hijack.

 

[H.K.]

I'd like to see the list of teams who have more than 91 wins the past ten years.

Shanny deserves some credit this season for putting the team in a position to win the division in the first place. Lots of young talent on offense (which he put there), obviously the D needs work, but as your post shows, Shanny has usually put strong defenses on the field.

Give the owner credit, too. He knows what he has, its not like HOF coaches grow on trees. Two losing seasons in 12 years. Lots of franchises would take that in a heartbeat.

Good question:Most Wins, NFL Regular Season [1999-2008]

Indianapolis Colts -- 113 wins [11.3 per season]

New England Patriots -- 110 wins [11.0 per season]

Pittsburgh Steelers -- 100 wins [10.0 per season]

Philadelphia Eagles -- 97 wins [9.7 per season]

Tennessee Titans -- 96 wins [9.6 per season]

Green Bay Packers -- 92 wins [9.2 per season]

Denver Broncos -- 91 wins [9.1 per season]

Baltimore Ravens -- 91 wins [9.1 per season]

Looks pretty compelling, no?

Yep. The elite teams have played in AFC the past decade, and Shannahan is right up there with them.

 

[thesurfshop19]

I don't think he was around in the 89 season when he started as Raider HC and Broncos went to SB(only to get pounded by SF) - but they did win AFC title without Shanahan if I'm not mistaken.

He left to be part of the Broncos' offensive staff 4 games in (after being fired) for the 1989 season. I believe this is why Al Davis hasn't paid him the rest of his money, because his only stipulation was that Shanahan couldn't go back to the Broncos mid-season.(Link)

I agree that it's sort of a technicality, and these threads get too Elway-focused anyway (as there have been several of them over the past 10 years). I'll re-direct my focus to the here and now.

 

[Buffaloes]

Let's not mix metaphors. Shanny has one playoff win without Elway. Elway had SEVEN [7] without Shanny. Huge difference.

IIRC, Elway won all of his playoff games when Shanahan was working for the Broncos in some capacity. Also, even though I am very frustrated with the Broncos lack of success the last few seasons, let's remember that three years ago, Shanny did coach the Broncos to the AFC title game...with Jake Plummer as his QB.

This is correct. The offensive coordinator or similar capacity in every single Elway playoff victory. You'd think someone would at least check that before trying to correct it.

I don't think he was around in the 89 season when he started as Raider HC and Broncos went to SB(only to get pounded by SF) - but they did win AFC title without Shanahan if I'm not mistaken.

Honestly, I don't see the relevence to the conversation. Who here is doubting that he is a good offensive mind and coach? The problem is on the other 2 sides of the ball. Defense is a joke and special teams have been lackluster. That is why Shanahan's current team has been so disappointing. It has nothing to do with Shanahan as OC of the 1980s Denver Broncos.

 

[thesurfshop19]

Twenty two teams [22] have won more playoff games in the last decade than Denver. Admittedly if we extended this back two years and looked at 12 year data, it would paint quite a different picture. So I understand [and even admire to an extent] Bowlen's patience and steadiness, but in a "what have you done for me lately league", very few coaches would be given the leash Shanny has been given.

While it's a "what have you done for me lately" league, and while those numbers are disappointing, I think when taken in tandem -- the Broncos are typically always in the mix, if rarely dominant -- that's a combination that most fans will take over a flash in the pan playoff or Super Bowl appearance surrounded by years of losing.I think focusing exclusively on the 2nd list at the expense of the 1st is counterproductive in most cases. Maybe if you're a Marlins fan?

 

[Jason Wood]

The fact that 22 of 32 teams having more playoff success in the last 10 years doesn't weigh on Broncos fans minds? I find it ironic because the Eagles have had more success than anyone in the NFC over that same span, and more playoff wins than anyone outside of the Pats, yet the majority of Eagles fans want Reid gone [or at least did before this late playoff surge].

 

[thesurfshop19]

The fact that 22 of 32 teams having more playoff success in the last 10 years doesn't weigh on Broncos fans minds? I find it ironic because the Eagles have had more success than anyone in the NFC over that same span, and more playoff wins than anyone outside of the Pats, yet the majority of Eagles fans want Reid gone [or at least did before this late playoff surge].

You might make the argument that winning 2 Super Bowls buys a lot of patience, particularly if the teams are always competitive / watchable.If the Eagles had won that Super Bowl rather than losing, wouldn't you think Andy Reid would have a lot longer leash? What if they'd beaten the Panthers the previous season and won back-to-back? Don't you think the fans would be willing to take a lot more "non-dominance", and might even require "haplessness", before starting to question the coach?

 

[Jason Wood]

The fact that 22 of 32 teams having more playoff success in the last 10 years doesn't weigh on Broncos fans minds? I find it ironic because the Eagles have had more success than anyone in the NFC over that same span, and more playoff wins than anyone outside of the Pats, yet the majority of Eagles fans want Reid gone [or at least did before this late playoff surge].

You might make the argument that winning 2 Super Bowls buys a lot of patience, particularly if the teams are always competitive / watchable.If the Eagles had won that Super Bowl rather than losing, wouldn't you think Andy Reid would have a lot longer leash? What if they'd beaten the Panthers the previous season and won back-to-back? Don't you think the fans would be willing to take a lot more "non-dominance", and might even require "haplessness", before starting to question the coach?

Absolutely. And that's the point of this thread. I don't think Shanny is on the hot seat. And I don't disregard the value of what he did with Elway. What I'm asking is, how long should he be given credit for that? Because if the league is all about winning in the playoffs and competing for championships, Shanny hasn't done much since Elway; he's been average at best, and below average in many measures [one division title, 1 playoff win]. But yet he won those two rings. So how long do you give those rings? Forever? At what point do you have to look at what's happened since?

 

[thesurfshop19]

Absolutely. And that's the point of this thread. I don't think Shanny is on the hot seat. And I don't disregard the value of what he did with Elway. What I'm asking is, how long should he be given credit for that? Because if the league is all about winning in the playoffs and competing for championships, Shanny hasn't done much since Elway; he's been average at best, and below average in many measures [one division title, 1 playoff win]. But yet he won those two rings. So how long do you give those rings? Forever? At what point do you have to look at what's happened since?

I think that as long as the Broncos are competitive every year, Shanahan should be the coach. If they go 5-11, 7-9, 4-12 in 3 straight years, that will show pretty clearly that Shanahan doesn't have what it takes anymore. But outside of that, I tend to agree with Pat Bowlen -- Shanahan's job as long as he wants it.That probably makes me an apologist, but what other coach gets Jake Plummer to the AFC Title Game?

 

[ffldrew]

The fact that 22 of 32 teams having more playoff success in the last 10 years doesn't weigh on Broncos fans minds? I find it ironic because the Eagles have had more success than anyone in the NFC over that same span, and more playoff wins than anyone outside of the Pats, yet the majority of Eagles fans want Reid gone [or at least did before this late playoff surge].

As a Bronco fan - the one win is very important - I think it reflects that he should be gone or at a minimum relieved of his GM duties. In three years he has had some big games come up and the team has responded flat each time. Also the number of times I have seen them out and out quit in these last three years is a reflection on how he has control on this team. In the last 6 outings against the Chargers he is 1-5 with the 1 being a admitted gift. They have been outscored in those games 237 (39.5 avg) to 113 (18.8 avg) - they completely quit in 3 of those games. Add in embarrassing losses at home to Oakland and Buffalo this year topped by a 13-11 home record the last 3 years and he should really be on the hot seat. For the last 3 seasons they have been mired in the middle of the NFL in points scored(17, 21, 19) while they are a league leader in offense yards. So the scoring magic has left him - and we can bring up several games where special teams and his decisions have cost them games - last week against Buffalo and last year against the Bears are two glaring examples where this team has failed to pay attention to an important part of the game. Then there is this years defense - which was putrid and a disgrace to all the great Bronco Defenses going back to the Orange Crush. There is always an excuse somewhere for him and this year it is injuries - last year the D coordinator - the QB the year before that - he has really used them up in my opinion and should be gone. The air has gone stale and I think some fresh air would be good.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I think winning 2 Super Bowls as coach should give you a lifetime pass as coach. At least until retirement age. You've shown you're capable of getting the job done and few active coaches have done the same.

As mentioned Shanny also made the AFC Title game with Jake Plummer at QB, which is a feat in itself.

The problem is the GM role where half his decisions have been moronic. He's had some winners too, but there needs to be another voice with power involved in the personnel decisions. Of course most coaches never want to give up that power once they have it.

 

[Buffaloes]

The fact that 22 of 32 teams having more playoff success in the last 10 years doesn't weigh on Broncos fans minds? I find it ironic because the Eagles have had more success than anyone in the NFC over that same span, and more playoff wins than anyone outside of the Pats, yet the majority of Eagles fans want Reid gone [or at least did before this late playoff surge].

As a Bronco fan - the one win is very important - I think it reflects that he should be gone or at a minimum relieved of his GM duties. In three years he has had some big games come up and the team has responded flat each time. Also the number of times I have seen them out and out quit in these last three years is a reflection on how he has control on this team. In the last 6 outings against the Chargers he is 1-5 with the 1 being a admitted gift. They have been outscored in those games 237 (39.5 avg) to 113 (18.8 avg) - they completely quit in 3 of those games. Add in embarrassing losses at home to Oakland and Buffalo this year topped by a 13-11 home record the last 3 years and he should really be on the hot seat. For the last 3 seasons they have been mired in the middle of the NFL in points scored(17, 21, 19) while they are a league leader in offense yards. So the scoring magic has left him - and we can bring up several games where special teams and his decisions have cost them games - last week against Buffalo and last year against the Bears are two glaring examples where this team has failed to pay attention to an important part of the game. Then there is this years defense - which was putrid and a disgrace to all the great Bronco Defenses going back to the Orange Crush. There is always an excuse somewhere for him and this year it is injuries - last year the D coordinator - the QB the year before that - he has really used them up in my opinion and should be gone. The air has gone stale and I think some fresh air would be good.

I think he should have been relieved of the personnel duties a while ago. How can the team continue to do so badly when it comes to assessing talent on the defensive side of the ball? The fact that Denver could not get up for any of their final 3 games to take hold of a game and win is a bad sign too. I will agree that the excuses need to stop. All the d coordinators, Plummer, Griese, and Sundquist that have taken the fall. The problem is, I don't see any of it changing. Denver still has one of the better fan bases who supports the team and I don't think there will be ANY change to Shanahan's job and that includes his personnel responsibilities. I'd still lke him to remain as head coach but would like to see him give up the personnel decision making.

 

[certificate]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2008/1...-out-in-denver/

Didn't see that one coming.

 

[Toomuchnv]

No more dealing with who the starting RB is week to week!!!

Per Adam Schefter on NFL Network he has been fired as Head Coach of the Broncos

 

[JohnDoe]

Broncos fire long-time coach Shanahan

Posted: Adam Schefter | Adam Schefter | Tags: Denver Broncos, Mike Shanahan

The blockbuster of the coaching season just came in: The Denver Broncos fired Mike Shanahan.

Shanahan had three years and upwards of $20 million remaining on his contract.

Shanahan was the longest tenured coach in Broncos franchise history.

Link

 

[Kowskull]

NFL Network just reported Mike Shanny fired in Denver. Was a long run.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

That one's a shock