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Mike Vrabel traded to the Chiefs (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter McBokonon
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
Yes to the clearing the books to sign another free agent (probably Bodden). If there is a big trade in the works (again what was discussed in the media) involving Cassel, it could take the whole weekend to complete. Given that players have been getting signed all day, that could be too late if there were players they were targeting. IIRC, Pats will clear $3 million in cap space by trading Vrabel (although not sure when they would get credit for it). I believe the cap rules state that you can technically go over the cap if the wheels are in motion (ie processing paperwork at the league office) to consummate another deal.They wouldn't. But they could need imediate cap relief to ink Bodden, which is the real reason I think they made this deal. Just some "Speculation" on my part though.Why would they need "immediate cap relief" to trade Matt Cassel's $14.5 million figure for draft picks?I believe by trading Vrabel first it gets them immediate cap relief to do something else, so the deal *** COULD *** end up with Cassel, Vrabel, and the Pats current first round pick for the Chiefs 1st and 3rd round picks (or picks in a future draft). Basically, in this scenario, Pats would move up 21 spots in the first round and get a 3rd rounder for Cassel and Vrabel (or something like that).Again, all SPECULATION at this point.
Carver
Footballguy
Oh. So you do have an inside source close to/inside the organization? As for you being wrong about stuff, (again it wasnt meant to offend) I just remember several times when you have been adamant about certain things that were pretty far off base. Hard to remember them all specifically but the "from what im hearing" always stuck out to me.
The most recent being NE's willingness to use the Franchise tag on Cassel. Not sure if you changed your stance on it at some point, but I remember posting that they would absolutely use the tag on him, and you rebutted it (with a fair but incorrect argument).
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Carver
Footballguy
Again... maybe you read over the "FROM WHAT IM HEARING" part of his post (which he has since clearified). But again... thanks for your input.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Apparently the SPECULATING wasn't clear enough. I've already answered this that in this instance it's a combination of public sources piecing together what they have heard. My best source doesn't have anything solid right now, as he's indicated the rumors and outcomes are flying all over the place.
Tackling Dummies
Footballguy
I'd assume the card w/ Curry's name on it would be on it's way to the commissioner as quick as possible.
rabidfireweasel
Footballguy
The SPECULATION, which Yudkin has never confirms or denies, is that he is friends in in contact with Mike Reiss, Boston Globe beat reporter. Beat reporters, particularly NE ones, have access to lots of info that they have to be very judicious with, if the want to maintain access with the team.
The Pats D got run over the last 2 years. They had the SB won, and the D just choked. 3mil and a 4th is a steal for the pats (KCs 4th is a late 3rd more or less). They're triyng to get younger. Keeping an aging LB, who is on the decline, IMHO is not better then getting a 24-27 year old LB in there. They have to learn at some point. Keeping him because "it will be hard for someone to learn the system" doesn't really fly. We're seeing a big change over on D, and with that offense I believe they can take some lumps as they work new guys in.
It's not being "sentimental" to object to a trade being called "great" when the person calling it great doesn't know what the Patriots are getting back, and obviously doesn't know what they're giving up either. Vrabel is at least an average linebacker who is intimately familiar with multiple roles on a complex defense. They have nobody on the roster I'm comfortable with just handing the OLB spot in a very complex defense.
If this is part one of some kind of other deal, then fine. If they're just moving Vrabel to get like a 4th round pick and $3 million in cap, then it's a terrible trade. Either way, calling it "great" without knowing what they're getting back is ridiculous.
munchkin
Footballguy
They drafted Crable in the 3rd round, Pierre Woods filled in pretty well, they resigned Banta Cain, Vince Redd, Rudd, Alexander and Guyton; granted we don't know how some of these players will be used but Vrabel is past his prime (as is Bruschi) and the team needs to get younger. This year's draft is deep at LB as well and if they have a couple of outside guys targeted the log jam would have been pretty deep.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
At the time of the Cassel debate, I did have people that I know personally telling me franchising Cassel would never happen and the Pats president and COO Jonathan Kraft even said so. But Cassel went nuts after that and the team figured they could get something for nothing (literally) in franchising him and trrading him. In that case, the info was right at the time but the situation changed and the result ended up different.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Mike Reiss is not in on this one (Cassel) at all, although yes I know Reiss.
B-Deep
Footballguy
i was kidding
puckalicious
Footballguy
I remember following that thread, and I still can't get the picture out of my mind of Cassel holding a winning lottery ticket, grinning ear to ear.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I know. That was for the others.i was kidding
Carver
Footballguy
Thanks for clarifying that AGAIN. I know who Mike Reiss is, and that's cool if he has an in with him. I’m not calling the dude a fraud, just questioning if he had a legit source for the SPECULATION in this instance; something that he answered quite well on his own. No need for the cavalry to rush in to defend him. He is clearly capable of doing that on his own im guessing.
If the Pats trade Cassell, Vrabel and the 1.23 pick for KC's 1.03 and 3.03 I think we got hosed. Call me crazy but there is no guarantee Curry will even be there at 1.03. If he's gone then what? And don't assume trading the pick will be easy. On top of that the cap hit would be huge. 
Carver
Footballguy
The Pats D got run over the last 2 years. They had the SB won, and the D just choked. 3mil and a 4th is a steal for the pats (KCs 4th is a late 3rd more or less). They're triyng to get younger. Keeping an aging LB, who is on the decline, IMHO is not better then getting a 24-27 year old LB in there. They have to learn at some point. Keeping him because "it will be hard for someone to learn the system" doesn't really fly. We're seeing a big change over on D, and with that offense I believe they can take some lumps as they work new guys in.
It's not being "sentimental" to object to a trade being called "great" when the person calling it great doesn't know what the Patriots are getting back, and obviously doesn't know what they're giving up either. Vrabel is at least an average linebacker who is intimately familiar with multiple roles on a complex defense. They have nobody on the roster I'm comfortable with just handing the OLB spot in a very complex defense.
If this is part one of some kind of other deal, then fine. If they're just moving Vrabel to get like a 4th round pick and $3 million in cap, then it's a terrible trade. Either way, calling it "great" without knowing what they're getting back is ridiculous.
Glad someone else sees this for what it is. A much needed youth movement @ LB and in the secondary. One that has been in the works the last few seasons. Trading vrabel is just another step in the process, and it's a good one.
B-Deep
Footballguy
i love tidbits like this, makes the day even more interesting!I know. That was for the others.i was kidding
Carver
Footballguy
You may notch me in WW... but you will get owned in a football argument GB. Best save your sarcasm for someone else.i was kidding
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
disagree. you take one of the stud tackles.If the Pats trade Cassell, Vrabel and the 1.23 pick for KC's 1.03 and 3.03 I think we got hosed. Call me crazy but there is no guarantee Curry will even be there at 1.03. If he's gone then what? And don't assume trading the pick will be easy. On top of that the cap hit would be huge.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Would seem to make sense, as I have heard editorial commentary from the media suggesting that Light should be moved to RT and someone youthful/more mobile inserted at LT.disagree. you take one of the stud tackles.If the Pats trade Cassell, Vrabel and the 1.23 pick for KC's 1.03 and 3.03 I think we got hosed. Call me crazy but there is no guarantee Curry will even be there at 1.03. If he's gone then what? And don't assume trading the pick will be easy. On top of that the cap hit would be huge.
encaitar
Footballguy
Yeah, if they got someone like Monroe or Smith(assuming Curry would be gone) that Oline would be even better than it is now. I can't see how anyone think that Cassell, Vrabel, and the 1.23 for the 1.03 and 3.03 is a bad deal. Considering most GMs think the 3rd overall pick is worth 2 late firsts, you're basically getting a first for Cassell and a third for Vrabel. I think that would be more than fair compensation for those two.Would seem to make sense, as I have heard editorial commentary from the media suggesting that Light should be moved to RT and someone youthful/more mobile inserted at LT.disagree. you take one of the stud tackles.If the Pats trade Cassell, Vrabel and the 1.23 pick for KC's 1.03 and 3.03 I think we got hosed. Call me crazy but there is no guarantee Curry will even be there at 1.03. If he's gone then what? And don't assume trading the pick will be easy. On top of that the cap hit would be huge.
GreekFreak
Footballguy
Tom Curran was just on WEEI saying the Pats are pursuing Jonathan Vilma and Ray Lewis 
Winston Wolfe
The Cleaner
Let's clear this up right now. Yudkin's "Best Source" = Mike Reiss.
Adebisi
Footballguy
Without making accusations and trying not to offend anyone, I've never seen any "inside" information posted on this board regarding anything having to do with the Patriots that wasn't posted by Mike Reiss first, or couldn't be deduced from reading Reiss's blog and adding a touch of common sense and speculation. However, all opinions are of course always welcome, and again, no disrespect intended here.
That being said, Mike Vrabel is one of my favorite players of all time. Did everything that was asked of him, played hurt, played inside & outside LB, played DE, played TE. Complete player who will always be remembered around here... there will indeed be a "Mike Vrabel Night" in Foxboro at some point within the next 5 or 6 years.
However, this was a very smart move by the Patriots. Vrabel can still play, but he's getting up there in age. Getting something for him right now is like trading in a used car that can still get you from Point A to Point B, but you want to unload it just before it completely breaks down for good.
That being said, Mike Vrabel is one of my favorite players of all time. Did everything that was asked of him, played hurt, played inside & outside LB, played DE, played TE. Complete player who will always be remembered around here... there will indeed be a "Mike Vrabel Night" in Foxboro at some point within the next 5 or 6 years.
However, this was a very smart move by the Patriots. Vrabel can still play, but he's getting up there in age. Getting something for him right now is like trading in a used car that can still get you from Point A to Point B, but you want to unload it just before it completely breaks down for good.
GreekFreak
Footballguy
BINGOThe idiot talk show hosts here in Boston read Reiss Pieces and then they go on air saying their "moles are telling them this" or "they are working the phones and finding out info".Bullcrap, they read his stuff and run with it as their own.
Carver
Footballguy
Vilma struggled in the 34 but BB has always had a semi for him so i wouldnt be surprised if they made a run at him.Lewis gives you all the leadership that you lose with Vrabel/Harrison/(possibly) Bruschi, and twice the play (even at his age)... BUT for the $$ he would command, it just wouldn't be worth it for them. Id be really shocked to see this happen. I could just as easily see them signing a JAG like Seward to play in rotation next to Mayo.Tom Curran was just on WEEI saying the Pats are pursuing Jonathan Vilma and Ray Lewis
Carver
Footballguy
This is pretty much all I was getting at with my OG post. Wasn't meant to offend Yudkin, I was just genuinely curious due to some of the same things you are pointing out here.It's all good, not trying to upset the applecart. Just wanted to know what the deal was with "from what im hearing". That (to me) insinuates "inside source". I didn’t expect such an emotional back lash from the “S-Double P”.
munchkin
Footballguy
If this is the deal, Cassel to the Chiefs, then I think we can assume that Cassel has a pretty good chance to be the real deal. Pioli would not make this deal unless he felt that the consensus amongst the Patriots brain trust was that of an up arrow for Cassel. The Pats took Seymour at six a few years back and that worked out pretty well. A stud O-Lineman would make sense at three or they could try to move down again. Speculating on the possibilities is fun as a Pats fan but if I were a Chiefs fan and this deal did go down I would feel pretty comfortable as to how the decision to go with Cassel was made.Yeah, if they got someone like Monroe or Smith(assuming Curry would be gone) that Oline would be even better than it is now. I can't see how anyone think that Cassell, Vrabel, and the 1.23 for the 1.03 and 3.03 is a bad deal. Considering most GMs think the 3rd overall pick is worth 2 late firsts, you're basically getting a first for Cassell and a third for Vrabel. I think that would be more than fair compensation for those two.Would seem to make sense, as I have heard editorial commentary from the media suggesting that Light should be moved to RT and someone youthful/more mobile inserted at LT.disagree. you take one of the stud tackles.If the Pats trade Cassell, Vrabel and the 1.23 pick for KC's 1.03 and 3.03 I think we got hosed. Call me crazy but there is no guarantee Curry will even be there at 1.03. If he's gone then what? And don't assume trading the pick will be easy. On top of that the cap hit would be huge.
Carver
Footballguy
There are only TWO media sources I trust when it comes to Patriot insider information...Mike Reiss and Mike Holley. Curran is a very distant third after his ridiculous "Brady could miss all of 2009" article a month or so back.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
So the Big Show spills over into the Shark Pool. If the pats can get the #3 overall and a 3rd rounder for Vrabel and Cassell, then that is a steal. It would surprise me if Pioli did that though. He'd basically be giving #3 overall for Cassel (a lot on its own, but ok) and then a 3rd for Vrabel? At his age, why would a rebuilding team like the Chiefs want him for a 3rd rounder? It just doesn't make that much sense to me.
Adebisi
Footballguy
He has indicated in the past that he has inside sources that he has discussions with, but again, I've never really seen anything materialize that Reiss didn't post to his blog first. I don't know... take it for whatever it's worth, I guess, but if you were that close to the situation, would you be sharing relevant information with someone who posts regularly on football discussion boards, especially when they use their real name and even go so far as to tell everyone that they have inside sources to back up their claims/speculation?Again, no offense meant to anyone here... just some things that I've speculated upon and kept to myself in the past, but it seems I haven't really been alone in this. And of course, we always welcome anyone's opinion or contributions.This is pretty much all I was getting at with my OG post. Wasn't meant to offend Yudkin, I was just genuinely curious due to some of the same things you are pointing out here.It's all good, not trying to upset the applecart. Just wanted to know what the deal was with "from what im hearing". That (to me) insinuates "inside source". I didn’t expect such an emotional back lash from the “S-Double P”.
munchkin
Footballguy
WEEI is a joke; infotainment at it's worst. Unless Paul Perillo (from PFW) is on the show I would take anything I heard with a grain of salt.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
If the Pats pull that one out of their a-r-s-e, they get my vote for the smartest bunch m-fers in the league.
Adebisi
Footballguy
It may not be as cut and dry as you're making it out to be. Perhaps someone else offered a mid-1st and a 3rd for Cassell. The Chiefs may have been willing to do that, but not with such a high 1st - unless the Pats throw something else in. Enter Vrabel.Not at all saying that's what happened; just pointing out that there may be more to it than the picture you are painting.
Adebisi
Footballguy
I feel like everyone else just throws a bunch of mud at the wall and hopes that some of it sticks, or even just throws stuff out there and hopes the Pats will either confirm or deny it.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
I'm not painting any picture. I was responding to Yudkin's post and some of the chatter I've heard on the Big Show here in between multitasking at work. If we're talking more picks going KC's way, then I can see where that makes sense.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
It's less of an OMFG trade if the Pats also have to give their 1st as part of the deal, i.e. Cassel + Vrabel + 23rd pick for 3rd pick and 3rd round pick.If this deal goes down, I suspect it will be more complicated than is currently being bantered about...Hoss_Cartwright said:
Boston
Footballguy
Tough to comment on this deal as it's not known what the Pats are getting back and it seems pretty obvious this is somehow tied to another move or two. Right now the Pats basically have Mayo, Thomas and an aging Bruschi at LB so something else has to be in the works.
As for Vrabel he will be missed. He's the consummate Pro and one of the most underrated players in the NFL the past eight years or so. He's a hard-nosed football player who could rush the passer, stop the run and drop back in coverage equally well. He was one of the Pats leaders during this run and BB has said on more than one occassion his football IQ is second to none. The guy played some of his best football during the big games and you could always count on him. I am surprised he got traded because I really thought they were going to move him inside next to Mayo as they try to get more athletic on the outside. Yet, at age 33 my guess is the Pats have decided to deal him a year too early rather than a year to late...while also being able to get something in return.
Overall he'll always be one of my all time favorite Patriots but if the BB era has taught Patriot fans anthing it's if you want a long-term run don't get too attached to players not named Tom Brady because you never know when they'll be playing elsewhere.
As for Vrabel he will be missed. He's the consummate Pro and one of the most underrated players in the NFL the past eight years or so. He's a hard-nosed football player who could rush the passer, stop the run and drop back in coverage equally well. He was one of the Pats leaders during this run and BB has said on more than one occassion his football IQ is second to none. The guy played some of his best football during the big games and you could always count on him. I am surprised he got traded because I really thought they were going to move him inside next to Mayo as they try to get more athletic on the outside. Yet, at age 33 my guess is the Pats have decided to deal him a year too early rather than a year to late...while also being able to get something in return.
Overall he'll always be one of my all time favorite Patriots but if the BB era has taught Patriot fans anthing it's if you want a long-term run don't get too attached to players not named Tom Brady because you never know when they'll be playing elsewhere.
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
Am I am way too tired from posting articles to sift through the entire thread, but I will say that if the deal somehow involves KC getting NE's 1.24 in return with Cassel I am probably on board. The 1.3 is A LOT for Cassel alone.
I will also add that today's news with FT can end the scuttlebutt of LJ being a good fit for NE. John Clayton had been on that one for awhile.
I will also add that today's news with FT can end the scuttlebutt of LJ being a good fit for NE. John Clayton had been on that one for awhile.
twitch
Footballguy
Im a huge Vrabel fan, but a Pats realist and these things happen. But that guy is gonna be sorely missed by this fan for certain. Just an unsung player all during the near decade long run, and it was good to see him finally get some just due praise the last few years. He was never really great at any one thing. He was just rock solid at pretty much everything. Sad day for Pats fans. But we're definitely hats off in great appreciation for this great, great ball player and his lunch pail mentality.
I dont know what's going on with the compensation for this deal. And there's alot of speculation and misinformation floating around right now. But Ive got a feeling like alot of people that more is about to go down. New England shot out of the free agent gate hot, and I really doubt theyre done.
I dont know what's going on with the compensation for this deal. And there's alot of speculation and misinformation floating around right now. But Ive got a feeling like alot of people that more is about to go down. New England shot out of the free agent gate hot, and I really doubt theyre done.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Maybe what they got for Vrabel is just what it is, just a draft pick, and probably a late one at that. Did that ever cross anyone's mind?
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Great, so we lose the #23 pick and gain a stud offensive tackle. Then our defense is picking the best available LB/CB at the end of the second round. Hooray, we get better on 0-line and spend a boatload of $$ to do it. And then we struggle to upgrade our defense in the second/ later rounds. I'd rather pick the best available lb/cb at #23, save the cap room and trade Cassell for a couple late first/ second rounders where you can adresss OL/DB/LB or whatever. I still don't see where the Pats make out in this scenario.fruity pebbles said:disagree. you take one of the stud tackles.ROCKET said:If the Pats trade Cassell, Vrabel and the 1.23 pick for KC's 1.03 and 3.03 I think we got hosed. Call me crazy but there is no guarantee Curry will even be there at 1.03. If he's gone then what? And don't assume trading the pick will be easy. On top of that the cap hit would be huge.
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Boston
Footballguy
Reiss is a good info guy but he's not even in the ballpark with Curran as far as understanding football.
twitch
Footballguy
That's a pretty complex thought there. Hadnt actually occured to me seeing how no compensation has yet been declared. Why the wait on what a 34 year old LB is worth? Do you really think theyre negotiating his value right now? Will it be a 5th rounder or a 6th? Gimme a break. Besides, that wouldnt be any fun.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Don't sound so perplexed. It's not like that's never happened before. There has been plenty of trades for players like Vrabel for undisclosed draft picks, only because the details hadn't been worked out yet. That doesn't mean there's something huge brewing. That also doesn't mean there isn't.
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Rovers
Footballguy
You make it sound like you've been here for years... Mr member # 35,401, who joined in January 2009. Carver has been here forever too, Mr member # 32,051, joined 9 months ago. Neither of you have been here long enough to question Yudkin, a guy with a long track record here. :(Adebisi said:He has indicated in the past that he has inside sources that he has discussions with, but again, I've never really seen anything materialize that Reiss didn't post to his blog first. I don't know... take it for whatever it's worth, I guess, but if you were that close to the situation, would you be sharing relevant information with someone who posts regularly on football discussion boards, especially when they use their real name and even go so far as to tell everyone that they have inside sources to back up their claims/speculation?Again, no offense meant to anyone here... just some things that I've speculated upon and kept to myself in the past, but it seems I haven't really been alone in this. And of course, we always welcome anyone's opinion or contributions.Carver said:This is pretty much all I was getting at with my OG post. Wasn't meant to offend Yudkin, I was just genuinely curious due to some of the same things you are pointing out here.It's all good, not trying to upset the applecart. Just wanted to know what the deal was with "from what im hearing". That (to me) insinuates "inside source". I didn’t expect such an emotional back lash from the “S-Double P”.Adebisi said:
