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Military coup attempt in Turkey (1 Viewer)

timschochet said:
A guy on MSNBC put it bluntly: we need a stable Turkey in order to contain ISIS. (Of course, we also need a strong Kurdistan in order to defeat ISIS, and Turkey and the Kurds don't get along.) What a screwed up mess. 
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A stable Iraq would have stopped Isis too. What makes you think we can keep Turkey stable when we couldn't keep Iraq stable?

 
JuniorNB said:
The problem is, the Turkish military was divided about this. Most of the major players were not a part of this and are loyal to Erdogan. This was not the best of their military, nor did it have much suppor . 
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Well, it is actually more complicated than that.  Erdogan has spent a decade removing his military adversaries....and kicking them out of the military.  So yeah, the "major players" in the military today were hand picked by Erdogan for the past decade.  He did this deliberately, knowing that otherwise, he would be in danger of a coup.  

 
Politician Spock said:
A stable Iraq would have stopped Isis too. What makes you think we can keep Turkey stable when we couldn't keep Iraq stable?
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I don't know Politician Spock. I try to keep up and study this stuff, and form well-reasoned opinions, but I honestly don't know. Like you, I can list all of the mistakes we've made in the past (much easier to do in hindsight) but that doesn't help us decide what to do at this point. 

 
timschochet said:
I don't know Politician Spock. I try to keep up and study this stuff, and form well-reasoned opinions, but I honestly don't know. Like you, I can list all of the mistakes we've made in the past (much easier to do in hindsight) but that doesn't help us decide what to do at this point. 
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But it most certainly helps us decide what NOT to do at this point.

 
bananafish said:
Why attempt a coup unless you have a reasonable chance at success? Otherwise it's just a protracted suicide mission and this appears doomed from the start.

That's what makes it look false-flaggy to me, though that's obviously just an opinion. 
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I'm starting to lean that way, too.  I haven't read the whole thread and am trying to catch up, news-wise, but this looks more and more like a fake, staged coup.  I am not familiar enough with the players to venture a guess as to what different factions might have to gain, but something seems very off here.

 
timschochet said:
Don't know why you find what I wrote amusing. That Erdogan won is the best possible result seems to be the universal consensus from experts, our State Department, the NATO leaders, etc. Erdogan is a pretty bad guy but it sure sounds like the chaos that would have ensued if he had been taken out would have been worse. 
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It is all about having the dictator in charge support the USA.  Who cares how much they do to prop up Islamic terrorism.

 
We seek out the "chaos" of deposing leaders in the Middle East when they don't support the US.  Invading Iraq and trying to depose Assad has certainly helped to arrest terrorism in those countries.

 
6am on a Saturday CNN letting this whole Turkish press conference play without any stupid anchors breaking in to blab with analysts.  Wish it was always this way.

-QG

 
Sounds like some of the members of the coup made it to Greece and are seeking asylum. Erdogan is demanding they return. For those crying "fake", their story will be telling.

 
Ilov80s said:
Sounds like some of the members of the coup made it to Greece and are seeking asylum. Erdogan is demanding they return. For those crying "fake", their story will be telling.
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The fact that they were allowed out of the country is more telling than any words.

 
Things about to get a whole lot messier:

BREAKING: Turkey's PM says any country that supports Fethullah Gulen, who is based in the US, is at war with Turkey

BREAKING: Power cut off from Turkey's Incirlik air base, amid reports the base is being closed off.
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CNN reporting Obama has called Situation Room. Seems odd considering the coup is over. Possibly this is because IS air capability vs Isis is on hold pending Incirlik being cut off.

 
Maybe I'm naive, but in today's day and age.  Seems impossible for a false flag operation to succeed.  Somebody, somewhere, knows something and would inevitably say something.  

That said, imagine this in addition to the airport attack has a similar impact to Egypt's economy which is bad for everyone judging how things are going in Egypt.  On the surface, it appears tourism makes up a similar % of GDP to Egypt pre-Arab spring ~10%.  

I also think I remember seeing how Turkey was a gateway to the ME economies given its relative stability and advanced financial sector.  Would imagine that could take a pretty big hit depending on how this plays out.  

 
 


Fercan Yalinkilic ‏@FercanY


Fercan Yalinkilic Retweeted ahmet şık

Journo Ahmet Sik says govt planned a operation against Gulenist soldiers. Info leaked and coup attempt carried out
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- So this was possible - there may have been a purge underway. There was a well respect Colonel, Col. Kose, who was sacked, and he had a lot of followers. These are part of the group that wants a secular, modern islam to lead the muslim world. The Erdogan government and military may have been preparing to take this faction out of the military, this leaked, so the faction acted preemptively. In a way they had no choice.
 
Come on guys this is just way too big for a false flag. Too many actors, too much chaos. 

If it had been a single event (say a lone assassin fires a rifle shot at Erdogan and misses, and the response is a huge clampdown) then I think there would be merit to discuss it. But this- don't forget that Erdogan had to go on social media and beg the people to come out for him, and there was no guarantee that they would. This was real. 

 
timschochet said:
Come on guys this is just way too big for a false flag. Too many actors, too much chaos. 

If it had been a single event (say a lone assassin fires a rifle shot at Erdogan and misses, and the response is a huge clampdown) then I think there would be merit to discuss it. But this- don't forget that Erdogan had to go on social media and beg the people to come out for him, and there was no guarantee that they would. This was real. 
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It's not a false flag.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
 


- So this was possible - there may have been a purge underway. There was a well respect Colonel, Col. Kose, who was sacked, and he had a lot of followers. These are part of the group that wants a secular, modern islam to lead the muslim world. The Erdogan government and military may have been preparing to take this faction out of the military, this leaked, so the faction acted preemptively. In a way they had no choice.
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'us or them' ... a near suicide mission, as it were .. 

 
Jobber said:
If Obama hands over Gulen, will you still say this?
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I have full confidence that any decision that  Obama makes, whether or not I agree with it, will be carefully thought out and in consideration of all possible consequences. Love him or hate him, he is a serious minded dude when it comes to foreign policy and I believe the same is true about Hillary Clinton. 

So my answer to your question is yes. 

 
timschochet said:
I have full confidence that any decision that  Obama makes, whether or not I agree with it, will be carefully thought out and in consideration of all possible consequences. Love him or hate him, he is a serious minded dude when it comes to foreign policy and I believe the same is true about Hillary Clinton. 

So my answer to your question is yes. 
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Apparently Kerry and Obama are taking criticism for taking time to oppose the coup. The US supported the 1980 coup and people have not forgotten either.

But it wasn't just the US, essentially all of the west / Europe held out too. Erdogan and Turk nationalists are not happy to say the least.

 
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