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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
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BigJim®
Footballguy
First preseason game in Denver? Keenum will only play a little I'm sure. I'm actually more intrigued that Sloter will likely get in 2 quarters.. visiting a fanbase that still bemoans his 2017 release. Sloter vs. Lynch will be interesting preseason action. Third preseason game vs. Seahawks, where starters play the most minutes will also be a good home pre-season matchup. Seahawk defense looks in disarray, so could be a good opportunity for a developing Viking O.
https://scout.com/nfl/vikings/Article/Minnesota-Vikings-preseason-opponents-locations-order-announced-117243284
https://scout.com/nfl/vikings/Article/Minnesota-Vikings-preseason-opponents-locations-order-announced-117243284
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BigJim®
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
YES! Happy to hear that they signed Kendricks first, I believe they have their priorities right doing that.
Sounds like about $10 million a year.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Nick Easton signs RFA tender
Easton is on a one year deal here, so another player who will need contract extension if they intend to keep him beyond this season. He can play center so its nice to have that versatility. I don't think he has played all that well. Perhaps average for a guard or a bit below average.
Joe Berger leaves a gaping hole in the offensive line. Remmers, Compton or Isidora are the guys who will compete for right guard in 2017 with the current roster. I am not sure if Remmers will kick back outside to right tackle or not. They seemed to prefer Hill there.
Easton is on a one year deal here, so another player who will need contract extension if they intend to keep him beyond this season. He can play center so its nice to have that versatility. I don't think he has played all that well. Perhaps average for a guard or a bit below average.
Joe Berger leaves a gaping hole in the offensive line. Remmers, Compton or Isidora are the guys who will compete for right guard in 2017 with the current roster. I am not sure if Remmers will kick back outside to right tackle or not. They seemed to prefer Hill there.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Vikings LB Brothers suspended for PED violation
4 games if he makes the team. Has only played on special teams for the most part.
4 games if he makes the team. Has only played on special teams for the most part.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
So, first rounder has to be either OL or CB, right?
What other positions do you see in rounds 1-3?
What other positions do you see in rounds 1-3?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
If a defensive lineman were to drop I would see them going that way over an offensive lineman. This would be in the 1st round, there isn't as much depth at Edge or DT as there is at center and guard.
I think if one of the tackles were to drop to the Vikings (seems unlikely) they could go that way and then still be looking at some good guards in round 2-3
If the Vikings were to go LB I think that would spell the end of Anthony Barr being with the Vikings after this season. Not expecting that as I think the Vikings may be planning to keep him, if they pick LB early I think that means they plan to move on from Barr.
There are good corners and safeties to consider. I am pretty happy with how Sendejo has played the last 2 seasons though so I don't see that as much of a need. You can always use corners.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I hope they are not locked into anything but BPA. I'd love OL/DL/LB. Hopefully they do better scouting midround OL if they delay that pick, although Elflein was 3rd and that looks pretty solid. I'm not sure how I feel about Orlando Brown but he seems like a guy who could slide significantly.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Brown definitely could.
The Vikings have drafted linemen for their athleticism before and I am not sure if that philosophy has changed even though the results of doing that hasn't worked out very well with TJ Clemmings for example. Isidora from last year tested very fast for a lineman. They were clearly focused on getting faster on the offensive line. Orlando Brown is somewhat the opposite of this although he does have massive size. Interestingly one of the players Brown compares to is Phil Loadholdt.
Pat Elfien was a leader from a big school. Below average in combine metrics but a good football player.
Maybe Brown is a below average athlete but a good enough player that it doesn't matter?
Here is a list of the offensive linemen the Vikings have drafted since 2007. Elflein was the highest pick the Vikings have used on a offensive lineman in the past decade of drafts.
1 2017 3 70 Pat Elflein C 23 2017 2017 0 0 1 8 14 14 Ohio St.
2 2017 5 180 Danny Isidora G 23 2017 2017 0 0 0 1 7 1 Miami (FL)
3 2016 4 121 Willie Beavers T 22 2016 2016 0 0 0 0 2 0 West. Michigan
4 2015 4 110 T.J. Clemmings T 23 2015 2017 0 0 2 15 37 32 Pittsburgh
5 2015 6 185 Tyrus Thompson T 23 0 0 0 Oklahoma
6 2015 7 228 Austin Shepherd T 23 2015 2015 0 0 0 1 14 0 Alabama
7 2014 5 145 David Yankey OL 22 2014 2016 0 0 0 0 6 0 Stanford
8 2013 6 196 Jeff Baca G 23 2013 2014 0 0 0 0 4 0 UCLA
9 2013 7 214 Travis Bond G 22 2013 2014 0 0 0 0 2 0 North Carolina
10 2012 1 4 Matt Kalil T 23 2012 2017 0 1 5 40 82 82 USC
11 2011 6 168 Demarcus Love OL 23 2012 2014 0 0 0 0 0 Arkansas
12 2011 6 172 Brandon Fusco C 23 2011 2017 0 0 5 34 83 80 Slippery Rock
13 2010 5 161 Chris DeGeare G 23 2010 2012 0 0 0 2 8 5 Wake Forest
14 2009 2 54 Phil Loadholt T 23 2009 2014 0 0 6 40 89 89 Oklahoma
15 2008 6 187 John Sullivan C 23 2008 2017 0 0 7 48 137 109 Notre Dame
The Vikings have used a 1st and 2nd round pick on tackles, otherwise Elflein is the highest pick for an inside lineman.
If I read into Spielmans comments when he is talking about players who are not under contract for 2019 being a factor in their decision, I wonder if he is talking about Diggs or Barr?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think the Vikings could save a lot of money letting Rudolph go.
However it takes time for rookie TE to develop. I suppose this could be a move for further down the road.
If the investment were pick 30 I would prefer the TE also be able to block. and hopefully block better than Rudolph which would not be hard.
I think there will be better players available at least with that pick, but yes there has been a lot of talk about Goedert and the Vikings being a nice fit.
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FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I'm getting a feeling that this is the classic "trade out of the first round" year....would be ideal if a QB fell - would make for the best haul on a trade.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
That definitely is the sense I get from Spielmans comments unless a player they really like actually falls to pick 30.
He talks about getting 4 offers for the pick already but he won't move on a deal until he sees how the draft falls.
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Footballguy
Deals Could Help Vikings Draft
I disagree with some of the points made by the author but interesting perspective on the Vikings possibly trading away Anthony Barr, Laquon Treadwell or even trading a 2019 first round pick to add picks for this draft.
I disagree with some of the points made by the author but interesting perspective on the Vikings possibly trading away Anthony Barr, Laquon Treadwell or even trading a 2019 first round pick to add picks for this draft.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Well, I don't see how a GM at 30 could conceivably be 'locked in' to anything, with the unpredictability of who falls or is picked higher. If the Vikes can get great value for Barr or Treadwell they definitely should. I hate the idea of trading a future 1st. That's desperate, short sighted, and no guarantee to land a contributing player. I can't really see Spielman doing that from 30, where a future 1st probably only gets them to 20.... still a crapshoot position. Far more likely that he trades back into early 2nd for additional midround picks. Goedert is intriguing but my sense is that is smoke screen to entice a team like New England to trade up with them.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah its just kind of stating the obvious that Spielman doesn't know how the draft will fall yet and at pick 30 too far out to try to predict that. Once the draft plays out and the picks are in the 20s then they will have a clearer idea of certain tiers of players being available under a worst case scenario and that is when they will know if they want to trade up or trade down.
I am entertaining the idea of trading Barr and I wonder what they could get for him?
I doubt other teams have much interest in Treadwell.
I don't like the idea of trading future 1st round picks either. He is just spitballing there, but I have heard this draft class is very strong at a lot of positions, so the depth of talent may be there to make such an idea worth considering. I would rather the Vikings add future picks than trade them away though.
Spielman is hinting at possibly trading down I think.
I kind of think Goedert is a smoke screen also, have seen a lot of articles linking him to the Vikings over the past two months. I do like Goedert and would be happy to add him to the team. I just think there are other priorities for the 1st and 2nd round picks. Would be happy if the Vikings added a TE later on in the draft.
Vikings players who will be free agents next season that Spielman is talking about are
Diggs
Hunter
Barr
Latavius Murray
Sheldon Richardson
Nick Easton
This looks like a lot of money for almost all of these guys besides Murray and maybe Easton (who I am still not completely sold on, but the front office seems to love this guy) and as we have discussed before there is likely going to be one of these guys that the Vikings can't sign regardless of what Brizinski told Spielman about being able to afford to keep them all. Some of these guys may want to test the free agent market regardless of what the Vikings offer them.
Will any Vikings 2019 free agents bet on themselves?
Bud Kilmer
Footballguy
So, are you upset if the spent the night at US Bank at the draft party, drinking $10 Miller Lites, and they trade down?
I agree, feels like a position of leverage. If someone slides perfect, else great spot to get more picks.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Because Newman is done, Alexander is awful, and Waynes isn't and won't be worth the paycheck he demands.
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Footballguy
remains to be seen. Waynes did improve last season. It takes awhile.3 first round picks and a 2nd round pick at corner for potentially the next 2 seasons.
I preferred Josh Jackson to Hughes but I am going to assume that Zimmer knows what hes doing. I guess.
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Vikings draft UCF cornerback Mike Hughes with 30th pick
Mike Hughes combine results and mockdraftable web
As you can see Hughes is very strong with 20 bench reps, 90th percentile for corners. Also very good in the 3 cone 6.7 seconds which is 86th percentile. Good in the broad jump as well 84th percentile, but only average in the vertical jump and below average is 40 time and arm length, although reportedly good on the jam, perhaps partly because of his strength.
According to this the combine metrics that matter for cornerback are weight, 40 time, bench, broad jump, 3 cone. Hughes does have very good metrics in three of these traits that matter.
Mike Hughes || Elite Corner|| UCF Highlights
Return skills.
Mike Hughes combine results and mockdraftable web
As you can see Hughes is very strong with 20 bench reps, 90th percentile for corners. Also very good in the 3 cone 6.7 seconds which is 86th percentile. Good in the broad jump as well 84th percentile, but only average in the vertical jump and below average is 40 time and arm length, although reportedly good on the jam, perhaps partly because of his strength.
According to this the combine metrics that matter for cornerback are weight, 40 time, bench, broad jump, 3 cone. Hughes does have very good metrics in three of these traits that matter.
Mike Hughes || Elite Corner|| UCF Highlights
Return skills.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
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Zimmer said his return ability (punts/kicks) was a big draw as well. I wanted oline but will trust the process. Our return game last year was mediocre.
3 hour lunch
Footballguy
The problem is that the return game is a smaller part of the game every year. Mostly touch backs and fair catches. Hope he can cover!
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
The off field stuff is a non issue. The accusations that facilitated his leaving UNC we're not pursued because of lack of evidence/credibility. He just chose to start fresh at USF.
And what doomed the Vikings in the last 6 quarters was a lack of coverage ability.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I hope you are right on off-field being a non issue. I'm not that confident because lack of evidence is not the same as innocence. Fact is there were other players who had no baggage of that type to wonder about.
I was not talking only defense in regards to trenches. No one would argue the Vikes matched Philly on either side of the trenches. They were significantly outclassed. Protecting Cousins is priority 1 after that contract. As to defense, JMHO, coverage is a consequential part of the game. Coverage for 7 seconds is a lot different from coverage for 4 seconds. I don't dislike CB, just not as likely to be an impact player as a trenches pick, in my opinion.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Signing Richardson precluded taking a d-lineman in the first.
I expect heavy drafting of O-line going forward this weekend.
I expect heavy drafting of O-line going forward this weekend.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
My cousin and I have been talking about this.
It does make sense to have your 3rd or 4th corner be a guy who can return kicks as well. You get more value out of that if the player can play in the base defense then you might from having a WR return kicks, because if the WR is good enough to contribute a lot on offense, the team may just take that player off of kick return anyways.
As we have seen it takes awhile for defensive backs to develop in Zimmers defense and to earn his trust. So being able to get kick returns out of him n the meantime
It is still questionable to me to use a 1st round pick on a kick returner. We have been down that road recently with Patterson. The Vikings REALLY value special teams.
The Vikings did miss the field position produced by Patterson returning kicks and being able to start a bit closer to the end zone does help in some hard to notice ways, it helps the defense as well.
According to FBO the Vikings were 4th in the league in 2016 in LOS/Dr which represents average starting field position (line of scrimmage) per drive at 30.4 yards.
The Vikings were still 7th in the league last season at 29.3 yards but there should be some improvement there I suppose.
Being a good returner at corner can matter for returning interceptions, the skill set crosses over to that as well.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I pretty much agree.
I think the way the draft fell the defensive tackles the Vikings may have been considering were drafted ahead of them however, as were the top LB prospects that they might have considered and some of the top offensive linemen, in particular Isiah Wynn who from what I have read would have been an excellent fit with the Vikings and Ragnow who is a local player and would have fit as well.
I had to look this up a few times to believe it, but Harold Landry was still there and is still there. The 8th overall player according to PFF.
12th overall in the consensus big board. With injuries you never know, but seems like he could have helped.
At offensive line good players who are still left and who the Vikings could have selected are Connor Williams Will Hernandez James Daniels and Tyrell Crosby from the top 50 of the consensus big board.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Braden Smith & Austin Corbett too
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah there is a lot of depth. I am not sure where the talent level drops off, there are a lot of players who could be good.
Do you know why Landry has been passed over?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Day 2 draft simulation: Vikings may have to trade up to fill O-line need
In the 3 scenarios presented James Daniels, Iowa, Will Hernandez, UTEP, Connor Williams, Texas, Austin Corbett, Nevada are always gone before pick 51. The Vikings select at 62.the cost would be high to move up even 10 picks as Coller points out.
Here are the players who only went before the Vikings picks in two of the simulations.
47 – Rankin
48 – Tyrell Crosby
48 – Orlando Brown, Oklahoma
52 – Jamarco Jones
52 – Brian O’Neil, Pitt
56 – Braden Smith
So possible they may be looking at one of these players with their pick.
The 10 best non-linemen the Vikings could pick on Day 2
In the 3 scenarios presented James Daniels, Iowa, Will Hernandez, UTEP, Connor Williams, Texas, Austin Corbett, Nevada are always gone before pick 51. The Vikings select at 62.the cost would be high to move up even 10 picks as Coller points out.
Here are the players who only went before the Vikings picks in two of the simulations.
47 – Rankin
48 – Tyrell Crosby
48 – Orlando Brown, Oklahoma
52 – Jamarco Jones
52 – Brian O’Neil, Pitt
56 – Braden Smith
So possible they may be looking at one of these players with their pick.
The 10 best non-linemen the Vikings could pick on Day 2
BigJim®
Footballguy
Well, I'll just trust the process, but if they need to trade up for OL, even more reason not use 30 on a CB. The drop off at CB would have to be pretty severe to make that logical, and I'd think Zimmer should be able to find a CB he can work with more easily than forcing a desperation 2nd round trade or risking missing out on all viable OL options to protect a $84MM QB. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul just seems like a self imposed wound, if that happens.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Hey if anyone can quickly plot out what players might be selected in the second round with more limited information surely the Vikings can and should have been keeny aware of that possibility going into today, especially considering the offensive linemen that fell in the first round.
I wonder if Wynn had been available if they actually would have taken him or not, or still take Hughes anyways.. we will never know.
I am not for trading up at this point and what that would cost, but I do really like James Daniels. Getting one of those four players seems pretty unlikely though where they are right now.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Speilman was on airwaves Wednesday explaining how important it has become to build depth through the draft due to big contract challenges. If he then on Friday trades what limited picks they have to move up in the 2nd for an OL they could have just taken at 30, that would tell me they got shaken and made a poor decision Thursday. I wasted away an entire night getting to pick 30... and can attest there was plenty of time to become desperate about OL.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The draft is very deep at offensive guard still and that is the normal way they have been doing things for a pretty long time now. I guess they like some linemen they can get on day 3.
I personally think the top 4 linemen listed by the draft simulation are what is left of an upper tier of those players and where there is more of a drop off. Although O'Neil, Brown and Smith are still good players.
I personally think the top 4 linemen listed by the draft simulation are what is left of an upper tier of those players and where there is more of a drop off. Although O'Neil, Brown and Smith are still good players.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Vikings surprised by second-round run on linemen
Sorry but as Jim and I were just discussing this yesterday that the Vikings should have been able to predict this was going to happen easily, It should not have come as a surprise and looking ahead should have influenced who they picked at 30.
Sorry but as Jim and I were just discussing this yesterday that the Vikings should have been able to predict this was going to happen easily, It should not have come as a surprise and looking ahead should have influenced who they picked at 30.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Do they take a shot at Maurice Hurst at this spot in the 4th?
Also, could double down on the line and take Crosby. Those would be my two picks.
Also, could double down on the line and take Crosby. Those would be my two picks.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Brian O'Neil prospect profile
Brian O'Neil mockdraftable web
As you can see O'Neil is very quick and athletic for an offensive lineman with 98 percentile in the 40 yard dash and 3 cone drills and also some good jump numbers as well as above average height. He needs to work on his strength but that is something the Vikings think he can do.
A former TE its possible O'Neil could be used as one in goal line situations and who knows? Maybe he scores some TD in this role to bother fantasy football owners.
The Vikings traded out of their 3rd round pick for an early pick today at 102 and another pick at 180.
Brian O'Neil mockdraftable web
As you can see O'Neil is very quick and athletic for an offensive lineman with 98 percentile in the 40 yard dash and 3 cone drills and also some good jump numbers as well as above average height. He needs to work on his strength but that is something the Vikings think he can do.
A former TE its possible O'Neil could be used as one in goal line situations and who knows? Maybe he scores some TD in this role to bother fantasy football owners.
The Vikings traded out of their 3rd round pick for an early pick today at 102 and another pick at 180.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The Vikings may be overly cautious about Hurst's heart condition due to what happened with Korey Stringer RIP. Otherwise they may have snagged him already. Hurst just may not be on their board or is on a do not draft list.
Crosby is from the same tier of players as O'Neil and I wouldn't mind that pick, however Crosby tested even weaker than O'Neil did without speed and quickness that O'Neil has. I can definitely see why the Vikings selected him over Crosby.
I don't know about O'Neil being able to play guard until he improves his strength. Crosby is weaker than he is and from reading about him, he has to move inside to guard because he has the TJ Clemmings disease of letting defenders get around him with speed.
