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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (2 Viewers)
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Once I got past the ugly uniform colors I notice he has some really good hands. He can catch passes over his shoulder. Runs a lot of routes over the middle and seems comfortable catching the ball in traffic. Comes back for the ball. Can make defenders miss after the catch with some decent shiftiness and swim moves. Stiff arms.
Not bad.
Pro day numbers 4.64 forty time but he is 6' 2" and he can jump.
100 receptions last year for the Eskimos.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I read somewhere that he had 3-4 contract offers including the Jets. He choose to Vikings because he grew up being a Vikings fan. Interesting choice being that the Jets lineup should be easier to crack.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
NFL.com draft analyst tabs Viking pick as late-rounder likely to exceed expectations
I have read quite a bit about Colby Gossett recently and although I would have liked an earlier pick on offensive line that was not a project like O'Neil (who I do love as a player for the future) it seems that the Vikings may have gotten lucky and landed Gossett who perhaps should have been a 3rd or 4th round pick by several peoples estimation.
Competition at guard is going to be very interesting in training camp. If Gossett is able to win the job the Vikings have a lot of other contenders who will become depth at the position.
He at least seems more promising than Willie Beavers who no one liked and didn't even make the cut to 53.
I have read quite a bit about Colby Gossett recently and although I would have liked an earlier pick on offensive line that was not a project like O'Neil (who I do love as a player for the future) it seems that the Vikings may have gotten lucky and landed Gossett who perhaps should have been a 3rd or 4th round pick by several peoples estimation.
Competition at guard is going to be very interesting in training camp. If Gossett is able to win the job the Vikings have a lot of other contenders who will become depth at the position.
He at least seems more promising than Willie Beavers who no one liked and didn't even make the cut to 53.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
With Robison back, what will the Vikings’ D-line rotation look like?
How time flies as Brian Robison recently turned 35 years old in April. While it is good to have him due to his experience its worth wondering if he hasn't lost a step or two from his peak in 2013. He did have 3 of his 4 sacks in the last 3 games of the season last year, so while other players were regressing at that time like Griffen and Tom Johnson, Robison was there to provide some spark. He was pretty much invisible during the two playoff games however, as was most of the defense at the end of last season.
Robison may not have as much of a role if the Vikings additions at under tackle pan out. That was a way he was able to still get on the field as the under tackle in passing situations. He also was used for zone blitzes at times dropping into coverage because of his savy and experience.
Last year Robison was keeping it real in that he was just doing what he could to make the team. Maybe he will again for this season, but thats not given.
How time flies as Brian Robison recently turned 35 years old in April. While it is good to have him due to his experience its worth wondering if he hasn't lost a step or two from his peak in 2013. He did have 3 of his 4 sacks in the last 3 games of the season last year, so while other players were regressing at that time like Griffen and Tom Johnson, Robison was there to provide some spark. He was pretty much invisible during the two playoff games however, as was most of the defense at the end of last season.
Robison may not have as much of a role if the Vikings additions at under tackle pan out. That was a way he was able to still get on the field as the under tackle in passing situations. He also was used for zone blitzes at times dropping into coverage because of his savy and experience.
Last year Robison was keeping it real in that he was just doing what he could to make the team. Maybe he will again for this season, but thats not given.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Vikings Sign David Parry
I don't know if this guy is any good or not, but just another player competing to play at under tackle for the Vikings this season.
I don't know if this guy is any good or not, but just another player competing to play at under tackle for the Vikings this season.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Pro Football Focus ranks Vikings’ receivers as NFL’s best
The receivers bailing Keenum out on these 50/50 ball was certainly part of what Zimmer was talking about with the horse shoe comments.
While certainly a credit to DIggs and Thielen for doing so well in contested catch situations. The hidden information related to this is that Case Keenum put the receivers in these situations all too often. Its great that they can win that way and perhaps a bit surprising as well compared to other WR in the league one might think would be great at that and maybe better than Diggs or Thielen, hopefully Cousins will be able to hit them more often when they are open, get the ball out quicker and have better ball placement accuracy than Keenum did.
The receivers bailing Keenum out on these 50/50 ball was certainly part of what Zimmer was talking about with the horse shoe comments.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Meet the Vikings draft picks: Tight end Tyler Conklin
I would link more variety of stuff Vikings related if so many of the other sites had not recently hid Vikings articles behind paywalls. Thats annoying.
I would link more variety of stuff Vikings related if so many of the other sites had not recently hid Vikings articles behind paywalls. Thats annoying.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
modogg
Footballguy
if Cook is healthy and is a viable option coming out of the backfield, i think your offense could be leaps and bounds better. It is kind of scary (as an Eagles fan) to be honest, but the potential is there. I have been a Cousins fan after watching him for the last few years, with Defelipo coaching him i think the Vikings can be the best in the NFC North. I know for most of you that is a given, but i guess us outsiders still see the Rodgers factor. But to be honest, i think even a top GB team would be in for a tough fight against the Vikings
Biabreakable
Footballguy
In my opinion Green Bay had a terrific draft this year. I really like the corners they drafted and the WR too.
I still think they lack pass rush but they should be greatly improved in coverage.
Major media such as ESPN and so on perennially under estimates the Vikings and what they did last season isn't changing that. Their analysis tends to be overly simplified and just based on the QB anyways. Rodgers is a great QB and difficult for any defense to stop, I would not count them out. The Bears seem much improved as well. Not sure if the Lions can keep up. The division is always difficult.
They play the NFC West and the AFC East this year, plus last years division winners Eagles and Saints. They maybe catch a break against the Dolphins, Bills and Jets, but its a difficult schedule. The Vikings could be improved from last season and still not win as many games as last year because of this.
The elephant in the room remains the offensive line. That is the main weakness of the Vikings still. They improved a lot last year, but still far from being above average in that area.
modogg
Footballguy
as an Eagles fan, i am curious to see how DeFelipo does for you guys as the OC. i imagine you will see a much better game because Doug relied a lot on him and Frank as a 3-headed monster to game plan run the offense. A good or above average OC can cover for a weaker OL with good game planning and mixing up what the offense does. should be fun
Biabreakable
Footballguy
If you can't beat them join them is kind of how I see the decision by the Vikings to sign DeFlippo. Zimmer is a great defensive coach but Flip/Pederson/Reich were able to figure out how to handle the Vikings defense. It was embarrassing. Not to give all the credit to the coaches as part of it was poor execution by the players as well, but Zimmer must have a lot of respect for DeFlippo and how the Eagles played all season and in particular the championship game.
I am somewhat hoping that Flip decides to play O'Neil a lot as a 6th offensive linemen this year. He is a converted TE. I don't expect him to be able to start at tackle, but this could be a way that he helps out the offensive line if O'Neil can contribute there and they do decide to play a 6th lineman on 15-20 snaps a game. He can catch the ball so its not like they are leaving themselves without options in the passing game if they do this a lot.
The Vikings did do this towards the end of the regular season last year but then abandoned it in the playoffs, I am not sure why. They lost their best lineman Joe Berger who retired, so I can't say with confidence that they have improved at all there in free agency or the draft. Hopefully O'Neil pans out or is better than expected, but I am not counting on that for the 2018 season.
Still big question marks at the guard positions however and pressure up the middle may continue to be a problem. This will be exposed when the Vikings play the Eagles and Rams who have very good inside pass rush. Kirk Cousins throws interceptions when he is pressured. Its a big concern.
The defense fell off at the end of last season but they do intend to rotate their defensive line more this year. Sheldon Richardson should be a significant upgrade over Tom Johnson. Due to the injury to Shariff Floyd the Vikings have had a hole at under tackle, just been getting by on smoke and mirrors to cover that weakness, having Brian Robison play a lot there on 3rd downs. Having really good under tackle play can take this defense to another level that has been missing. 4th round pick Jayln Holmes is being moved to under tackle Jaleel Johnson was drafted last year in the 4th round and will (hopefully) mix in there a bit more this year as well. Back up DEs Weatherly and Bower can hopefully mix in there more this season than last year. If Brian Robison does not make the team I think that will be the strongest sign of those players earning Zimmers trust enough to mix in. If they can get improved play at under tackle that makes the DE more effective as they will face fewer double teams and it makes the LB blitzing better as well. UDFA Hercules Mata'afa has been talked about as possible strong side LB or more recently DE. He played defensive tackle in college but he isn't big enough right now for them to play him there much.
Besides the addition MIke Hughes in the first round who will compete to start at nickle corner with Newman and Alexander the Vikings also added UDFA Holton Hill who was a very good corner in college, but with a troubled past and failed drug test at the combine. If he can make the team he might be able to compete for the nickle corner as well. It is possible the Vikings move him (or Newman) to safety. Zimmer has said he may play one safety (Harrison Smith) and 4 or 5 corners at times this year. He likes having that flexibility. The Vikings may have the talent at corner to be able to do that more this season. 3 first round corners and one 2nd rounder (Alexander) now not counting Newman who was a 1st round pick himself a long long time ago. Newman still plays well despite his age and is like having an extra coach because of his experience.
As good as the defense was last season I think they have improved personnel wise and could be better this season. A lot of that hinges on how well RIchardson and the other under tackles play.
Long term the Vikings look like they can keep most of their players but its up to Diggs if he wants to sign a long term deal with them or not. From what I can tell he sounds like he is betting on himself and will test free agency after this season. I am not sure the Vikings will be able to keep him. If they do want to Keep Anthony Barr signing him to a long term deal would likely free up cap space as he is very expensive right now on the 5th year option.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Incognito an option?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yikes.
From a personal standpoint I don't think he fits the type of character the Vikings claim they are looking for. However they did sign UDFA Horton Hill, so they are willing to take risks on guys with checkered pasts.
It is my understanding that he retired. Did he change his mind?
The guy can play. I just really frown on hazing which is why Incognito got the boot from the Dolphins. Its the kind of thing that can tear a locker room apart. The Vikings seem to have good chemistry in their locker room with mostly good players who support each other. I am not sure what he can do on Sundays is worth risking that.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I hope so. Gedeon is listed as the weak side LB and he played 24.5% of the defensive snaps last year. The Vikings are in nickle and other sub packages with more defensive backs on the field, this is all they needed from him. I am not sure he would be the direct replacement for Barr however who plays strong side LB. Barr played on 92.8% of the defensive snaps last year, rarely coming off the field.BigSteelThrill said:
Gedeon is not as fast as Anthony Barr and I think his main weakness is in coverage. They do not really ask him to do that much. He is a run support player.who mostly plays in the goal line and short yardage situations. I am not sure if that would change if Barr were injured or traded this season.
Eric Wilson is the direct back up to Barr as the strong side LB. He isn't as heavy as Gedeon but I think he is faster than Gedeion is. He showed some good things with his play in preseason last year making a lot of plays. He did not play any snaps on defense last season ( mostly because Barr played so many snaps) but he did play the 4th most snaps on special teams last year (Gedeon played the most snaps on ST followed by Sherels, then Brothers, then Wilson)
I am looking forward so seeing if Wilson added more weight over this offseason. Zimmer does like large LBers which Barr is. Wilson is listed as only 6'2" 225 although its possible he has gotten heavier since then. I'm not sure if him adding wight will reduce his speed and quickness.
Another player the Vikings added who might be in the mix to replace Barr is UDFA Hercules Mata'Afa (shut your mouth! just talking about Herc) who played defensive tackle in college, but has seen some work at LB during rookie camp although he is being listed as a DE right now I don't think the Vikings are done looking at him as a LB.
Based on Wludfords article I linked above on Wednesday, PFF grades Barr as a better pass rusher than he is against the run or in coverage.
This is just another example of where what people at PFF are grading and what I see from the players do not match. I have been watching and studying the game of football for over 30 years now and I watch Vikings games more closely than any others.
In my view Anthony Barr has been too easily blocked when he has blitzed and the Vikings haven't blitzed as much as I think they should, if Barr was so good at that. So if what PFF is saying is true, it is damning with faint praise that Barr is better at rushing the passer than he is against the run or in coverage, because in my view he fails as a pass rusher too often and does not live up to his reputation in this area, despite his undeniable god given gifts.
Anthony Barr is very fast and his speed is something I think would be difficult to replace. Without him in the line up I do think some other weaknesses develop because of that lack of speed and range that Barr does have. I do think what Barr brings to the overall defense is something that cannot be easily replaced. With that said however I don't think Barr has developed into the player the Vikings were hoping he would when they drafted him 9th overall in the 2014 draft. At the time I wanted the Vikings to draft Shazier over Barr and I still think Shazier could do more for the Vikings if they had, and he hadn't been injured. The main reasons I think Barr was selected over Shazier was because of his size. He does have a very special combination of size and speed which Zimmer covets. In my view Barr hasn't developed enough on the skill side of things as the coaching staff may have hoped he would.
In my view the Vikings got lucky drafting Eric Kendricks in the 2nd round of 2015. He does have the skillset at off the ball LB the Vikings needed and haven't gotten out of Barr. They were absolutely right to prioritize re-signing him, Because of Kendricks play it should allow Barr to freelance and rush the passer more, but they don't do that with Barr that much and I think the reason why is because Barr fails to beat the blocking too often when they do send him.
Listening to other Vikings talk it does seem like Barr missing otas is because of the contract situation. Neither Zimmer or Spilman have been willing to talk about this much. The silence must mean it is related to his contract and as wludford speculates it may be about the $4 million per season difference between a SLB in a 4-3 vs a 3-4 where those players are paid more like edge rushers. It totally makes sense that Barr's agent would argue from this perspective, but in my view Barr has not delivered as a pass rusher to be worthy of that type of compensation for what he has done on the field. Thus the impasse.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Good stuff Bia.
I am under the full impression that Gedeon + Kendricks (keeping some flexibility in where they align play-to-play) will be better then the Kendricks inside and Barr outside combo. Gedeon may be the very best Viking against the run inside or out. And since the Vikes play so much 5DB/2LB personnel with Kendricks also being more than solid in coverage, that it seems like a smart fit.
I am under the full impression that Gedeon + Kendricks (keeping some flexibility in where they align play-to-play) will be better then the Kendricks inside and Barr outside combo. Gedeon may be the very best Viking against the run inside or out. And since the Vikes play so much 5DB/2LB personnel with Kendricks also being more than solid in coverage, that it seems like a smart fit.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I am not comfortable enough with Gedeon in coverage for the Vikings to do this. I think teams can expose him with match ups and we would be looking at a situation similar to what it was when Chad Greenway was playing a lot of snaps towards the end of his career. 3rd downs in particular would suffer from teams exploiting this match up.
Maybe Gedeon improves, but this is the way I see that playing out if it did happen right now.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Id agree, except you have 5 DBs and Kendricks. Gedeon is good enough at coverage to bring his sizable run skills and his natural instincts (which ZImmer praises) onto the field. It appears they are ready to go that direction in 2019. However, Barr will stay on the field for as long while he is rostered.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Maybe I am being too critical of Gedeon. He hasn't really played enough for me to judge him in coverage. That isn't what they have asked him to do. He plays the same spot as Greenway (post Barr) does in the defense.
What you are talking about would likely be a shift of Gedeon to MLB and Kendricks to the outside. This has been speculated quite a few times in regards to Kendricks and Zimmer seems adamant that he likes Kendricks in the MLB role and doesn't want to change that.
Both of the 3 down LB whatever you call their position or role in the defense have coverage responsibilities in the defense due to the pattern matching, zone blitzing and shifts is positional role responsibilities. If they play Gedeon 80% or more of the snaps I think Zimmer will lose some flexibility in his play calling that hurts the whole defense overall, making it more predictable and for teams to scheme against, which would include them putting Gedeon in coverage responsibilities they can exploit.
The could just have Gedeon play a zxone in the middle and he may be capable of doing that. I don't think he can do more than that in coverage, and those limitations will be exposed by crossing routes and attacking the seams.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
If Gedeon (as you wondered) does continue to improve and can handle these outside assignments then I think the Kendricks/Gedeon interchangeability would make the defense less predictable on match ups. Remember Gedeon was an ILB who shown so well they gave him a shot at WLB, and won it going away. He is a true football player and can probably play just about anything. Heck, he was an all-state RB in high school and passed on Harvard for Michigan.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I appreciate the discussion. At this time you seem to be more a fan of Gedeon abilities than I am. I do have a tendency to be more critical and skeptical of Vikings players than I am with players from other teams.
Here is to hoping your right. That would be great for the Vikings if Gedeon could handle a more full time role.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Also a combination of thinking Barr is lackluster for all of his physical traits. And the $$$ facet.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah I think Barr is gone after this year although Zimmer may like Barr more than I do.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
They brought in Mychael Kendricks while Anthony Barr is still wanting a contract.
A few ways to read into that.
A few ways to read into that.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Anthony Barr says he wanted deal done before OTAs
So it sounds like the reason he skipped the first week of OTAs was because he was taking out an insurance policy and the paperwork on that needed to be finalized.
He is back practicing with the team now.
Takeaways from Week 2 of Vikings OTAs
So it sounds like the reason he skipped the first week of OTAs was because he was taking out an insurance policy and the paperwork on that needed to be finalized.
He is back practicing with the team now.
Takeaways from Week 2 of Vikings OTAs
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Tore his ACL yesterday...bummer, as I saw some good special teams time for him this year.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
That is a bummer.
I was looking forward to seeing what he could do at least in preseason this year. He is an intriguing player that I was hoping might crack some passing down sub packages as a pass rusher. Won't get to see that now.
I was looking forward to seeing what he could do at least in preseason this year. He is an intriguing player that I was hoping might crack some passing down sub packages as a pass rusher. Won't get to see that now.
