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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Heatman
- Start date
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Is too early to say that we should be looking at center in the draft? What are drafting like 28th?
karl.Racki
Footballguy
So after the last 2 games, does Minnesota try to resign Darnold?
Yes but it’s an easier convo for them now as they have leverage with JJ and a little less hot market competition for his services
Dizzy
Footballguy
Nope.
If he's willing to compete for the backup job.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Assuming Flores is gone after this season. Who should the Vikings look at for DC? Vikings entire secondary are pending free agents except for Metellis. Opportunity to buy a whole new secondary.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
This guy gets it:
Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
Alright, some quick #Vikings thoughts:
— Darnold is gone next season. It's McCarthy time. How you play in the biggest games outweighs everything else.
— He's 0-2 in the playoffs, but this doesn't shake my belief in Kevin O'Connell. Extend him this offseason. He'll grow from this. There's still almost no one I'd rather have leading the way in the McCarthy era.
— The cap space has to be poured into the trenches this spring. Do whatever it takes to bring in some upgrades on the interior of the OL. Add some difference-makers at DT. The other needs (CB, RB, etc.) pale in comparison to getting better up front.
— This season, like 2022, was a lot of fun. It ended with the team not particularly close to title contention, but I don't think that should take away from the joy that was experienced during the ride. I'll remember a bunch of moments from this year for a long time.
— Thanks to everyone for following along with my coverage! I know it stinks right now, but this is gonna be a fascinating and eventful offseason — and I still think the future looks bright for this franchise.
Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
Alright, some quick #Vikings thoughts:
— Darnold is gone next season. It's McCarthy time. How you play in the biggest games outweighs everything else.
— He's 0-2 in the playoffs, but this doesn't shake my belief in Kevin O'Connell. Extend him this offseason. He'll grow from this. There's still almost no one I'd rather have leading the way in the McCarthy era.
— The cap space has to be poured into the trenches this spring. Do whatever it takes to bring in some upgrades on the interior of the OL. Add some difference-makers at DT. The other needs (CB, RB, etc.) pale in comparison to getting better up front.
— This season, like 2022, was a lot of fun. It ended with the team not particularly close to title contention, but I don't think that should take away from the joy that was experienced during the ride. I'll remember a bunch of moments from this year for a long time.
— Thanks to everyone for following along with my coverage! I know it stinks right now, but this is gonna be a fascinating and eventful offseason — and I still think the future looks bright for this franchise.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
For the 35th straight year, I'll be marking the end of the Vikings' season by watching Game 7 of the 1991 World Series.
Godspeed, everyone.
Godspeed, everyone.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
For what he made this season yes, otherwise no.
I had Darnold on one of my FF teams so I watched him quite a bit this season. I was thinking that he had played himself into a nice Baker Mayfield type of contract. not so sure now, the last 2 games he played like a rookie again. Against the Lions and Rams many times when the rush was coming he had guys open on hot reads and instead held the ball and took the sack. Why he held the ball early in game on a WR screen to Jefferson was puzzling as it was set up perfect.
Right now I doubt Darnold will get a 3-4 year deal with a big payday.
I do think the play calling did him no favors. After the first series there should have been more screens to the RBs and quick slants to try and offset the pass rush and get the ball out of his hands quicker.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Please, God know.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Kevin O’Connell is able to coach up a quarterbacks nature almost better than anybody I’ve ever seen.
He took cousins from a check down merchant to a guy that’s willing to throw deep down the field all season in 2022.
But, fourth and eight in the playoffs when you have to have 8 yards he checks down. That’s his nature to be conservative and to not be the guy that made the mistake. A coach can’t literally take over a guy‘s brain, especially in crunch time.
Sam was a guy who got happy feet and held the ball too long and got off his first read too quickly in New York and Carolina. He got to the Vikings, and during the season O’Connell coached him up to be decisive, plant his back foot and fire the ball, even before the receiver was out of his break.
But in the two biggest playoff games of the year, he reverted back to his nature. A guy who pats the ball and is afraid to pull the trigger, then tries to force something in late with no base as the pass rush is getting to them.
I think O’Connell is similar to Tomlin where he’s such a good coach, he can get a mediocre team to outperform and get into the playoffs when in reality they have no real chance of going anywhere so it looks like he’s choking in the playoffs.
We need to get a dog at quarterback, hopefully McCarthy, is that guy, somebody who goes out there and just owns the field, and KOC doesn’t have to think for him. We also need a dedicated play collar in my opinion who is synced up with what KOC wants but is also willing to use tools from other toolboxes that KOC seems allergic to like the quick game and the slant game, etc..
We need three new interior offensive lineman and I hope at least two of them are high paid free agents
We need two stud cornerbacks and I hope at least one of them is a high paid free agent
All of this means we can’t resign Sam, we have to go into next year with McCarthy and Daniel Jones and take the rest of the money we would’ve spent on Sam and continue to shop in free agency, which is something that team is clearly pretty good at doing.
He took cousins from a check down merchant to a guy that’s willing to throw deep down the field all season in 2022.
But, fourth and eight in the playoffs when you have to have 8 yards he checks down. That’s his nature to be conservative and to not be the guy that made the mistake. A coach can’t literally take over a guy‘s brain, especially in crunch time.
Sam was a guy who got happy feet and held the ball too long and got off his first read too quickly in New York and Carolina. He got to the Vikings, and during the season O’Connell coached him up to be decisive, plant his back foot and fire the ball, even before the receiver was out of his break.
But in the two biggest playoff games of the year, he reverted back to his nature. A guy who pats the ball and is afraid to pull the trigger, then tries to force something in late with no base as the pass rush is getting to them.
I think O’Connell is similar to Tomlin where he’s such a good coach, he can get a mediocre team to outperform and get into the playoffs when in reality they have no real chance of going anywhere so it looks like he’s choking in the playoffs.
We need to get a dog at quarterback, hopefully McCarthy, is that guy, somebody who goes out there and just owns the field, and KOC doesn’t have to think for him. We also need a dedicated play collar in my opinion who is synced up with what KOC wants but is also willing to use tools from other toolboxes that KOC seems allergic to like the quick game and the slant game, etc..
We need three new interior offensive lineman and I hope at least two of them are high paid free agents
We need two stud cornerbacks and I hope at least one of them is a high paid free agent
All of this means we can’t resign Sam, we have to go into next year with McCarthy and Daniel Jones and take the rest of the money we would’ve spent on Sam and continue to shop in free agency, which is something that team is clearly pretty good at doing.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Another concern is the age of the team. IIRC they're the second oldest.
Almost the entire defensive backfield could be turned over (save Metellus).
The interior of both lines needs work.
It was a shocking regression for Sam. I know the guys were covered well and that pocket collapsing all night, but why can't he learn to throw it in the dirt to avoid a sack or two? Whoever said the playoffs would reveal whether or not they'd keep him was correct - very doubtful they will now.
The most concerning thing for me the last two weeks was KOC looking outsmarted.
Almost the entire defensive backfield could be turned over (save Metellus).
The interior of both lines needs work.
It was a shocking regression for Sam. I know the guys were covered well and that pocket collapsing all night, but why can't he learn to throw it in the dirt to avoid a sack or two? Whoever said the playoffs would reveal whether or not they'd keep him was correct - very doubtful they will now.
The most concerning thing for me the last two weeks was KOC looking outsmarted.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Oh man, I'm so sorry. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.
Gjallarhorn
Footballguy
Well...go Wild!
Unfortunately, I got my hopes. I fully expected the Vikes to win last night even though I should have known the bright lights were just too big for Darnold. He was seeing ghosts again and KOC got completely out coached. That was probably the most disappointing thing of the entire night. I didn't expect that.
I knew the Vikes wouldn't win the whole thing but to go out that way was absolutely a nugget punch that was not expected. It's hope that kills you.......and it definitely did this year. Ugh.
They should just franchise tag him. Run it back next year to see if he can do it again and let JJM develop with a fully healthy year. It's wouldn't have long term ramifications and they have the cap space to do it easily.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I say no. It may be a step backwards but JJM needs the experience of play and I would not want to see him go two full seasons without starting.
That was obvious for the last two games. But nothing changed. I was really disappointed in KOC as he was definitely outcoached yesterday.
This season doesn't count for him not starting. He was injured. Why not go into next year with the same plan they had this year? If JJM outperforms Darnold and earns the job over him then great...he starts. It could be game 1, after the bye or maybe he's not ready all year. He is young. No need to rush things. Give JJM a full, healthy year to develop. This was a lost year for him. Don't rush him next year just because he lost this year.
I franchise tag to Darnold doesn't hurt the future cap situation. It's one year. Just run it back and let development continue with a healthy year.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Because it's over $30 million to do that. And they have way too many other needs.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Thought he did a poor job coaching against Detroit too. The play calling in the red zone was too pass heavy.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
The injury changes the plan. I just don't think you can have a guy not play for that long of time. Skills erode of they're not used.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Seems like the biggest takeaway from the last two games is the playing calling and game script was much more conservative vs. the regular season. It might not be correct but that's my anecdotal takeaway after thinking about the last two games. No killer instinct. In both games we needed to score 30 points to have a shot to win and we scored one offensive touchdown in 8 quarters. Something doesn't add up.
steelcityman
Footballguy
McCarthy will know the playbook, know the Minn routines, know the players. He will not be a rookie, he will be included in all spring and summer events(OTAs whatever). He will have seen a year from the sidelines, something that a lot of rookie QBs would have benefited from in the past. Hand him the keys now, and let him go be their QB. With the HC and the group of pass catchers they have, they should be in good shape come week 1. And can spend that Darnold money on defense or OL, grab a RB in the draft and go.
I am not saying Love is a top 5 QB but sitting him for multiple years seemed to have turned out ok. JJM is still very young (21/22) and has time. Another year of development....this time with being able to physically participate isn't a bad thing and could benefit him. This was a lost year for him. Let him learn some. Rushing QB's isn't always the best way to go......it is the great debate for sure.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Does it make sense though to have JJ making less than $5 million and his back-up making $50 million?
Feels like $50 million get you some O-line help.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
There is ZERO chance that Darnold gets anywhere near $50 million...I don't think anyone gives him $20 million...I hope the Vikings go with Jones as their backup at something 10 or less. He has mobility similar to McCarthy so the gameplan wouldn't change much if McCarthy had to sit.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Is Franchise the only tag he's eligible for? I'd honestly be a little worried he signs it on the spot and no other team values him near that salary + trade pick cost of a franchised player - and the Vikes become stuck. JMHO only way Darnold stays is if the other staring options are less appealing, for any reason, than taking a chance staying in MN.
I'm not as down on Darnold as some I'm seeing here. Yes he looked scared, and yes he held the ball too long, but this OL is the culprit of nearly all of the Viking offensive ails when matched against top NFL competition. What should worry folks is that could be how JJ is wrecked if this team doesn't get serious about OL one of these decades. Also a million times better scouting OL, considering the Rams starting center who largely stopped our inside pass rush that they drafted in the 6th round THIS season. That seems impossible based on Vikes past decade using late rounders on OL.
Why would they be "stuck"? They have plenty of cap space to absorb one year of the Franchise Tag for next year. It gives them a year to see if this year was a fluke (I think he is fine in the regular season but can't handle the spotlight of big games) while allowing a super young JJM a healthy year to develop and be ready. If JJM outplays Darnold they can move to him at some point next year just as the plan was to do this year. I don't see this as any type of risk.
They can use the rest of the cap space to sure up the O-line and hopefully have them gel and get better as the year go on and be ready for when JJM takes over full time (whenever that may be). Then in 2026 when Darnold comes off the books that gives a bunch of cap space back to go for further improvements for JJM's first full year as starter.
I don't think the Vikes are in a position to compete for the Super Bowl next year but they are in a position to start a better foundation of line play to be ready for 2026 to start a serious window with JJM at the helm.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I say "stuck" because I don't believe Darnold should be the sure starter over JJM the entire 2025 season. Ideally he would be only part of the season, and we get on with our QBOTF plan, taking advantage of the cap benefits of doing it well (I think they have, being a JJM believer).
Two weeks ago, the reason I'd consider franchise tagging Darnold is to get value for him if he leaves, while limiting our commitment if he stayed. Everything has changed though, as getting franchise tag value from another NFL team is a delusional hope after these past two weeks. Not entirely on him IMHO, but these were particularly damning performances. If I'm Kwesi actually noodling him staying, I'm not spending $40M for it to happen. I'm getting him on a hometown bargain $15M-$20M and leaving myself $20M - $25 to bolster other areas desperate for improvement.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Good luck, Sam. Appreciate your efforts. We'll miss you.
snogger
Footballguy
If so as a backup.. 2 year deal $15-20 Mil. any team that wants to pay him more can have him. He is NOT the future.
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snogger
Footballguy
- Your QB is getting KILLED and you continue to call 20+ deep routes and tell him to hold in there.There was one play, either 3rd and 8 or 4th and 8 and all receivers are running deep routes, no one underneath.. Then Sam feels the rush and goes backwards 10 yards and get sacked.
Kevin is needy when it comes to big plays that he ignores what's happening and sticks to trying to get big plays.
snogger
Footballguy
The game plan had been for JJ to start this year. There might have been some talk of wait and see, but I believe they were ready to cut the cord and let JJ fly.
I say go for it next year.
QB's like Jayden and Nixon and Strout have proven if the talent is there use it.
The idea being that the contract would be that of a backup.
I look at guys like Geno Smith and Baker Mayfield who turned their careers around, and I think both those guys are better than Darnold, and didn't have a 1st round QB waiting in the wings.
Dizzy
Footballguy
What are the MIN options?
1) Tag him. What's that cost... $40 million, more?
2) Match offers from others. Might be about the same. Some might view last night's game as more of an indictment on the O-line than Darnold. Overall his body of work for 2024 was really good.
Honestly, probably let him walk and get a comp pick might be the best option. Maybe you can tag and trade, but I doubt they get more than a 2nd or 3rd rounder, and that has some risks.
I'd go in with McCarthy as the unquestioned starter next year, and maybe you can keep Daniel Jones around as a cheaper backup. Darnold's 2024 was good, but it sure feels like the ceiling, and I think McCarthy's a better talent.
there's ZERO chance he gets below $20 million
BigJim®
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Couple salient points here
- the franchise tag for a QB in 2025 will be $41.325M
- if they put a qualifying tag on Darnold, they have the option to either match another offer he gets from another team, or not match and receive the next two 1st round picks from the team signing him.
Also, be grateful Darnold saved the franchise from giving him a big bag if he had played well in one big game. SEE JONES, Daniel - one playoff win and they screwed themselves.
Speaking of which, no they should not tender an offer to their Practice Squad QB. He is turrible.
Jones is absolutely fine as a backup. He is far from terrible.
I think it was in the Darnold thread as I don't see it in here, but @Gally pointed out Darnold as being somewhat similar to Case Keenum, and I couldn't agree more with that. I think there is a good reason to not even make him an offer, and just take the comp pick.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
I've moved on.
JJ2JJ in '25
JJ2JJ in '25
steelcityman
Footballguy
Didnt KOC draft JJ? He is supposed to be the offensive guru. He had a reason to draft him that high. And there is no reason to feel those reasons faded away.
They can go with JJ, and sign a $8M backup like Daniel Jones, Jameis, Mac Jones, whoever. their WRs are elite and will have a strong TE option. Investing in OL makes sense. Darnold could get over $40M a year. Thats a lot when you are paying a lot for your WR1(worth it).
If you want to beat the Rams, Lions, upper level NFC teams, why would you bring back the guy who just looked awful against them?
They can go with JJ, and sign a $8M backup like Daniel Jones, Jameis, Mac Jones, whoever. their WRs are elite and will have a strong TE option. Investing in OL makes sense. Darnold could get over $40M a year. Thats a lot when you are paying a lot for your WR1(worth it).
If you want to beat the Rams, Lions, upper level NFC teams, why would you bring back the guy who just looked awful against them?
Gjallarhorn
Footballguy
Vikings 2025 Opponents
Home: Bears, Lions, Packers, Eagles, Bengals, Ravens, Commanders, Falcons
Away: Bears, Lions, Packers, Browns, Cowboys, Giants, Steelers, Seahawks, Chargers.
Notables: No international game for the Vikes 2025. We somehow play the Seahawks on the road AGAIN. Seems like a yearly occurrence, Unbelievably tough home schedule.
Home: Bears, Lions, Packers, Eagles, Bengals, Ravens, Commanders, Falcons
Away: Bears, Lions, Packers, Browns, Cowboys, Giants, Steelers, Seahawks, Chargers.
Notables: No international game for the Vikes 2025. We somehow play the Seahawks on the road AGAIN. Seems like a yearly occurrence, Unbelievably tough home schedule.
snogger
Footballguy
IMO, road games look "easier" than home.. Glad it isn't reversed.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The Vikings still haven’t had a QB start all games in a season for consecutive years since 16 game expansion in 1978
The Minnesota Vikings have never had a quarterback start all 16/17 games in two consecutive seasons
The last time they had a quarterback start every game in two consecutive seasons was in '72-73 with Fran Tarkenton, but that was before the schedule expanded to 16 games in 1978.
Assuming Darnold doesn’t next year, we are looking at 53+ years before it happens.
The Minnesota Vikings have never had a quarterback start all 16/17 games in two consecutive seasons
The last time they had a quarterback start every game in two consecutive seasons was in '72-73 with Fran Tarkenton, but that was before the schedule expanded to 16 games in 1978.
Assuming Darnold doesn’t next year, we are looking at 53+ years before it happens.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Where do you come up with this stuff? You should be in the booth somewhere filling announcers with these tidbits.
Gjallarhorn
Footballguy
Less than ideal. I wonder if any other team can say the same thing? This certainly does not explain the Vikings championship futility, but it is an interesting metric.
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