*** MNF Game Thread: SF 49ers @ SEA Seahawks *** (1 Viewer)

[MarcO]

Well its too early to tell for sure, but I think I may like the SAless seahawk offense a little better. RB's caught 5 passes, te's caught 5.

But during the past week the coach stated they were going pass heavy, because it was what was working. Even when SA might be playing tonight. As in - it was what was working while SA was on the field. The fact it was used more and worked is a solid sign for Seattle. When Morris had 19 carries at under 3 yards a clip, its hard to see him as a catalyst. But I do like the new offense playcalling better. Call what works.

use the pass to set up the run. It may be a style that is suited better for Morris but I would like to see Alexander get the same opportunity.

Alexander did see the same opportunity years ago when Watters was the receiving/runningback. When the reigns were handed over to Alexander, they pain stakingly tried to fit him in. He simply cannot block and cannot catch. I was shocked when they signed him to that fat contract. I don't know how a RB makes it to this level while not being able to passblock or catch but SA managed it. And now that Hutch is blocking for Minn, his running game is gone as well. I hope you guys are wrong and they don't bring SA back. he does not work in this type of offense.

he had 44, 59, and 42 catches respectively in 2001 - 2003. not bad for a guy that can't catch.

What about 04, 05, 06 and 07? Think the NFL will let us borrow stats from 5 years ago to win games this year? What does five years ago have to do with today? A lot of players are different than they were then. Around the time he became a superstar he quit catching the ball. Last year and this year before the wrist injury he sucked in the passing game in addition to not being a very good blocker.

addressing the point bolded above - how the "pain stakingly tried to fit him in". did he just forget how to catch or did they stop utilizing him in the passing game?

 

[largentslovechild]

Morris 87 on 28 with a Touch (and 3 for 16).

If that were Shaun, that would have been 15 carries for 39, and the obligatory 2 targets and no receptions.

Was finally nice to see a Seattle jersey run through the los.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Seattle played well in this game except on special teams where they were awful. Even the two turnovers didn't end up hurting and the offense looked srisp without SA out there slowing them down. And that's really what he was doing. Once they get Branch back they will be even faster and more able to spread the field. If the line holds the offense is going to be much better going forward as they were in the first half.

The defense has played poorly in one game this year (Cleveland) and not so great vs the Saints although the special teams in that game also put them in a hole. Bentley did a great job in relief of Hill and Grant and Russell are really great upgrades over Boulware and Hamlin. They looked good.

 

[Enforcer]

Not sure if folks across the nation are picking up what the Seattle homers are trying to tell them about Alexander. It seems it took quite a while for people to believe in Hackett the same way. Too easy for people to look at stat lines and not listen to the analysis.

Hackett is here to stay. He's scored a TD in both of the last two games and got lots of other red zone looks. They even ran a play specifically for him near the goal line yesterday.

Alexander is close to done. Hand injury or none. Given the same carries as Morris got yesterday he wouldn't have gained near the same yardage.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Not sure if folks across the nation are picking up what the Seattle homers are trying to tell them about Alexander. It seems it took quite a while for people to believe in Hackett the same way. Too easy for people to look at stat lines and not listen to the analysis.Hackett is here to stay. He's scored a TD in both of the last two games and got lots of other red zone looks. They even ran a play specifically for him near the goal line yesterday.Alexander is close to done. Hand injury or none. Given the same carries as Morris got yesterday he wouldn't have gained near the same yardage.

I'm convinced. I have hung on to SA because I really didn't want to give anyone in my league a starter. But the offense looked much better last night without him, and that's saying a bunch given the lack of talent that Morris really posseses. Maybe letting someone pick him up would be GOOD for my team. Heck, they might actually start him and suck up his 32 yard day against me.

 

[J R]

Morris 87 on 28 with a Touch (and 3 for 16).If that were Shaun, that would have been 15 carries for 39, and the obligatory 2 targets and no receptions.Was finally nice to see a Seattle jersey run through the los.

Earlier in the year against SF, Alexander ran 25-78 for actually a slightly higher ypc than Morris had last night.SF has been giving up 125 rush yds/g and 3.8 ypc, including last night's game.SF ranked 25th in rush defense by DVOA going into last night's game.The 49ers are a disaster. Whatever you think of Alexander, I think the jury's still out on whether or not they're better off with Morris.

 

[Enforcer]

Morris 87 on 28 with a Touch (and 3 for 16).If that were Shaun, that would have been 15 carries for 39, and the obligatory 2 targets and no receptions.Was finally nice to see a Seattle jersey run through the los.

Earlier in the year against SF, Alexander ran 25-78 for actually a slightly higher ypc than Morris had last night.SF has been giving up 125 rush yds/g and 3.8 ypc, including last night's game.SF ranked 25th in rush defense by DVOA going into last night's game.The 49ers are a disaster. Whatever you think of Alexander, I think the jury's still out on whether or not they're better off with Morris.

For me, this is a prime example of the statistics not being as important as what we see on the field. Morris broke a couple of tackles yesterday and burst through a few holes. We haven't seen this from Alexander at all this year. Just a night a day difference from my perspective.

 

[MarcO]

Morris 87 on 28 with a Touch (and 3 for 16).If that were Shaun, that would have been 15 carries for 39, and the obligatory 2 targets and no receptions.Was finally nice to see a Seattle jersey run through the los.

Earlier in the year against SF, Alexander ran 25-78 for actually a slightly higher ypc than Morris had last night.SF has been giving up 125 rush yds/g and 3.8 ypc, including last night's game.SF ranked 25th in rush defense by DVOA going into last night's game.The 49ers are a disaster. Whatever you think of Alexander, I think the jury's still out on whether or not they're better off with Morris.

For me, this is a prime example of the statistics not being as important as what we see on the field. Morris broke a couple of tackles yesterday and burst through a few holes. We haven't seen this from Alexander at all this year. Just a night a day difference from my perspective.

what I'm saying is that you cannot compare Morris in the "pass first offense" with Alexander in the "Everyone knows it's SA on 1st and 2nd downs offense". Morris got his biggest holes on delayed draw style of runs - something Alexander rarely sees. There were holes for Morris that Shaun hasn't seen all year. Not saying Alexander would have done better or even the same but it's not a fair comparison. BTW - I think Morris is better suited for that type of offense but I think you are kidding yourself if you think Holmgren is going to sit Alexander for Morris.

 

[mad sweeney]

Morris 87 on 28 with a Touch (and 3 for 16).If that were Shaun, that would have been 15 carries for 39, and the obligatory 2 targets and no receptions.Was finally nice to see a Seattle jersey run through the los.

Earlier in the year against SF, Alexander ran 25-78 for actually a slightly higher ypc than Morris had last night.SF has been giving up 125 rush yds/g and 3.8 ypc, including last night's game.SF ranked 25th in rush defense by DVOA going into last night's game.The 49ers are a disaster. Whatever you think of Alexander, I think the jury's still out on whether or not they're better off with Morris.

For me, this is a prime example of the statistics not being as important as what we see on the field. Morris broke a couple of tackles yesterday and burst through a few holes. We haven't seen this from Alexander at all this year. Just a night a day difference from my perspective.

what I'm saying is that you cannot compare Morris in the "pass first offense" with Alexander in the "Everyone knows it's SA on 1st and 2nd downs offense". Morris got his biggest holes on delayed draw style of runs - something Alexander rarely sees. There were holes for Morris that Shaun hasn't seen all year. Not saying Alexander would have done better or even the same but it's not a fair comparison. BTW - I think Morris is better suited for that type of offense but I think you are kidding yourself if you think Holmgren is going to sit Alexander for Morris.

Again, the reason SA doesn't get those draw plays is because he can't catch or block and so isn't in on passing situations to get the draws. And SA would've been hard pressed to crack 50 yards last night. Morris ran through contact instead of curling up into a ball. I agree that it's not entirely fair to comapre the two since it was a different offensive look, but it's a different look that's NOT POSSIBLE with SA to begin with. I'm not saying Morris is good, his ypc is pedestrian for the game, but it's HOW he got the yards he got that is the difference between the two. In addition to MoMo's better pass blocking, I can easily see MoMo getting the nod while SA is still wearing the cast. But even then he's not a good blitz pickup guy or blocker and was having trouble catching the ball before he got his widdle wristy hurt, he otherwise goes down at first contact instead of fighting like Morris does. If their YPC are going to be the same, go with the guy that can catch and block too.

 

[MarcO]

Morris 87 on 28 with a Touch (and 3 for 16).

If that were Shaun, that would have been 15 carries for 39, and the obligatory 2 targets and no receptions.

Was finally nice to see a Seattle jersey run through the los.

Earlier in the year against SF, Alexander ran 25-78 for actually a slightly higher ypc than Morris had last night.SF has been giving up 125 rush yds/g and 3.8 ypc, including last night's game.

SF ranked 25th in rush defense by DVOA going into last night's game.

The 49ers are a disaster. Whatever you think of Alexander, I think the jury's still out on whether or not they're better off with Morris.

For me, this is a prime example of the statistics not being as important as what we see on the field. Morris broke a couple of tackles yesterday and burst through a few holes. We haven't seen this from Alexander at all this year. Just a night a day difference from my perspective.

what I'm saying is that you cannot compare Morris in the "pass first offense" with Alexander in the "Everyone knows it's SA on 1st and 2nd downs offense". Morris got his biggest holes on delayed draw style of runs - something Alexander rarely sees. There were holes for Morris that Shaun hasn't seen all year. Not saying Alexander would have done better or even the same but it's not a fair comparison. BTW - I think Morris is better suited for that type of offense but I think you are kidding yourself if you think Holmgren is going to sit Alexander for Morris.

Again, the reason SA doesn't get those draw plays is because he can't catch or block and so isn't in on passing situations to get the draws. And SA would've been hard pressed to crack 50 yards last night. Morris ran through contact instead of curling up into a ball. I agree that it's not entirely fair to comapre the two since it was a different offensive look, but it's a different look that's NOT POSSIBLE with SA to begin with. I'm not saying Morris is good, his ypc is pedestrian for the game, but it's HOW he got the yards he got that is the difference between the two. In addition to MoMo's better pass blocking, I can easily see MoMo getting the nod while SA is still wearing the cast. But even then he's not a good blitz pickup guy or blocker and was having trouble catching the ball before he got his widdle wristy hurt, he otherwise goes down at first contact instead of fighting like Morris does. If their YPC are going to be the same, go with the guy that can catch and block too.

I don't disagree with anything you said. What I am saying is some of those plays that Morris got were not "passing situations" until last night when Holmgren decided that 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down were all passing situations. Put Alexander in the same offense maybe he doesn't look so bad - and I agree he has looked bad. You may be 100% correct in that Alexander is completely incapable of succeeding in that style of offense, I happen to think he could. In any case I think we'll get a chance to see because I don't see Holmgren sitting Alexander if he is healthy enough to go on Sunday.

 

[mad sweeney]

Morris 87 on 28 with a Touch (and 3 for 16).

If that were Shaun, that would have been 15 carries for 39, and the obligatory 2 targets and no receptions.

Was finally nice to see a Seattle jersey run through the los.

Earlier in the year against SF, Alexander ran 25-78 for actually a slightly higher ypc than Morris had last night.SF has been giving up 125 rush yds/g and 3.8 ypc, including last night's game.

SF ranked 25th in rush defense by DVOA going into last night's game.

The 49ers are a disaster. Whatever you think of Alexander, I think the jury's still out on whether or not they're better off with Morris.

For me, this is a prime example of the statistics not being as important as what we see on the field. Morris broke a couple of tackles yesterday and burst through a few holes. We haven't seen this from Alexander at all this year. Just a night a day difference from my perspective.

what I'm saying is that you cannot compare Morris in the "pass first offense" with Alexander in the "Everyone knows it's SA on 1st and 2nd downs offense". Morris got his biggest holes on delayed draw style of runs - something Alexander rarely sees. There were holes for Morris that Shaun hasn't seen all year. Not saying Alexander would have done better or even the same but it's not a fair comparison. BTW - I think Morris is better suited for that type of offense but I think you are kidding yourself if you think Holmgren is going to sit Alexander for Morris.

Again, the reason SA doesn't get those draw plays is because he can't catch or block and so isn't in on passing situations to get the draws. And SA would've been hard pressed to crack 50 yards last night. Morris ran through contact instead of curling up into a ball. I agree that it's not entirely fair to comapre the two since it was a different offensive look, but it's a different look that's NOT POSSIBLE with SA to begin with. I'm not saying Morris is good, his ypc is pedestrian for the game, but it's HOW he got the yards he got that is the difference between the two. In addition to MoMo's better pass blocking, I can easily see MoMo getting the nod while SA is still wearing the cast. But even then he's not a good blitz pickup guy or blocker and was having trouble catching the ball before he got his widdle wristy hurt, he otherwise goes down at first contact instead of fighting like Morris does. If their YPC are going to be the same, go with the guy that can catch and block too.

I don't disagree with anything you said. What I am saying is some of those plays that Morris got were not "passing situations" until last night when Holmgren decided that 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down were all passing situations. Put Alexander in the same offense maybe he doesn't look so bad - and I agree he has looked bad. You may be 100% correct in that Alexander is completely incapable of succeeding in that style of offense, I happen to think he could. In any case I think we'll get a chance to see because I don't see Holmgren sitting Alexander if he is healthy enough to go on Sunday.

I have seen absolutely nothing from SA to suggest that he will do any better than his 40 ypg. He can't catch with the cast on (or off but that's another story) and can't block as well as Morris (even w/o the cast). So the offense simply CAN"T be the same if SA is in there. I saw Morris at least twice cover a lot of ground to pick up a block and hold it, which SA can't do. And SA has not broken a tackle or run through contact all season, he would've gotten at least 20-30 yards less than MoMo on the exact same carries with the exact same holes. Every single coach or player on MN Countdown said the same thing, big paycheck=lost motivation. At least ten times I saw MoMo get more yards when I know SA would've gone down. SA cannot do well in that type of offense because you cannot run that type of O with him in there. Period Especially if he's going to have the cast on.

 

[Enforcer]

...And SA would've been hard pressed to crack 50 yards last night. Morris ran through contact instead of curling up into a ball...

My observations have been the same with regard to Alexander.

 

[J R]

Morris 87 on 28 with a Touch (and 3 for 16).

If that were Shaun, that would have been 15 carries for 39, and the obligatory 2 targets and no receptions.

Was finally nice to see a Seattle jersey run through the los.

Earlier in the year against SF, Alexander ran 25-78 for actually a slightly higher ypc than Morris had last night.SF has been giving up 125 rush yds/g and 3.8 ypc, including last night's game.

SF ranked 25th in rush defense by DVOA going into last night's game.

The 49ers are a disaster. Whatever you think of Alexander, I think the jury's still out on whether or not they're better off with Morris.

For me, this is a prime example of the statistics not being as important as what we see on the field. Morris broke a couple of tackles yesterday and burst through a few holes. We haven't seen this from Alexander at all this year. Just a night a day difference from my perspective.

what I'm saying is that you cannot compare Morris in the "pass first offense" with Alexander in the "Everyone knows it's SA on 1st and 2nd downs offense". Morris got his biggest holes on delayed draw style of runs - something Alexander rarely sees. There were holes for Morris that Shaun hasn't seen all year. Not saying Alexander would have done better or even the same but it's not a fair comparison. BTW - I think Morris is better suited for that type of offense but I think you are kidding yourself if you think Holmgren is going to sit Alexander for Morris.

Again, the reason SA doesn't get those draw plays is because he can't catch or block and so isn't in on passing situations to get the draws. And SA would've been hard pressed to crack 50 yards last night. Morris ran through contact instead of curling up into a ball. I agree that it's not entirely fair to comapre the two since it was a different offensive look, but it's a different look that's NOT POSSIBLE with SA to begin with. I'm not saying Morris is good, his ypc is pedestrian for the game, but it's HOW he got the yards he got that is the difference between the two. In addition to MoMo's better pass blocking, I can easily see MoMo getting the nod while SA is still wearing the cast. But even then he's not a good blitz pickup guy or blocker and was having trouble catching the ball before he got his widdle wristy hurt, he otherwise goes down at first contact instead of fighting like Morris does. If their YPC are going to be the same, go with the guy that can catch and block too.

I don't disagree with anything you said. What I am saying is some of those plays that Morris got were not "passing situations" until last night when Holmgren decided that 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down were all passing situations. Put Alexander in the same offense maybe he doesn't look so bad - and I agree he has looked bad. You may be 100% correct in that Alexander is completely incapable of succeeding in that style of offense, I happen to think he could. In any case I think we'll get a chance to see because I don't see Holmgren sitting Alexander if he is healthy enough to go on Sunday.

I have seen absolutely nothing from SA to suggest that he will do any better than his 40 ypg. He can't catch with the cast on (or off but that's another story) and can't block as well as Morris (even w/o the cast). So the offense simply CAN"T be the same if SA is in there. I saw Morris at least twice cover a lot of ground to pick up a block and hold it, which SA can't do. And SA has not broken a tackle or run through contact all season, he would've gotten at least 20-30 yards less than MoMo on the exact same carries with the exact same holes. Every single coach or player on MN Countdown said the same thing, big paycheck=lost motivation. At least ten times I saw MoMo get more yards when I know SA would've gone down. SA cannot do well in that type of offense because you cannot run that type of O with him in there. Period Especially if he's going to have the cast on.

Well if they said it on MN Countdown, it's usually true!Seriously, I appreciate these subjective evaluations from everyone and think they're worthwhile. Myself, I don't always trust my eyes, which is why I like to come back to the stats. I'm curious to know what you think, madsweeney, about whether or not SA could succeed running in this offense. You mention receiving and passblocking, which I'd concede to you. I'm not so sure about the running part of your argument here, because you suggest he cannot do better than 40 ypg when he in fact nearly doubled it in an earlier game against SF - the comparison here, since SF is the only team we've seen Morris start in - and the 2nd point is hyperbole and the 3rd is speculative. If I read your post right, you would say Morris would've gone off for 20-100 against SF earlier in the season, in which case I wonder why he didn't last night.

 

[cacksman]

Well, i'm gonna crash. Hopefully, we've seen the last of SA for the season.

If it were up to me, I would wait until SA was healthy enough to get his cast off, and bring him back around week 15 or 16. It would guarantee him to be fresh for the playoffs which is when we could use him. Last year he was very effective in the playoffs.I've said this before but the cast is the main reason for his struggles.

And you're still wrong. I'm not saying it's a non factor. But there are so many more problems in his game than just the wrist. He was unimpressive in preseason and in games before he got hurt and before Strong was lost.

No, his wrist is the main detriment to his game right now. He cannot run to the left (the best run blocking side of Seattle's line) with his cast on his left hand. He exclusively runs to the right behind old ### Gray. And when the defense knows that when you are running when SA is in, he is going to the right, there is not going to be much running room. I'm just going out on a limb but I think if the defense knows which side you are running to, it makes it a lot easier for a defense.Not only that, but its very hard for him to catch the ball or block with the cast on.Also, you say he wasnt running well before he got hurt... He had 275 yards and 2 TDs his first 3 games this year. That is not bad by any stretch of the imagination. If you could somehow come up with some solid evidence that his wrist is not the reason for his struggles, by all means let me know. SA will be much improved in a few weeks when healthy. Nuff said.

 

[cacksman]

madsweeney, I would love to hear your argument.

 

[mad sweeney]

madsweeney, I would love to hear your argument.

I've already said it all dozens of times so I'm not going to go too into it. Yes the wrist is a hindrance but that doesn't affect the pansy way he runs and has always run. Here's an SA run. Get the ball, get to the line, someone reaches out, stop moving legs, turn back to line, curl into ball and fall backwards. Almost every single carry he stops his legs and starts to go down at first contact. Stats don't tell everything, IIRC he hit 100 week 3 because of 2 4th quarter long runs (2 runs for 53 yards in the final minute) and was very unimpressive all game, barely reaching the 100 yard mark. Sure those runs sealed the game but it wouldn't have been close if he'd gotten more than 47 yards rthe previous 59 minutes. Will he improve when the cast comes off, most assuredly. Will he live up to his paycheck and get the short yards when needed, be in on 3rd downs, block well, play like he did in his 2 "contract" years? No. He saves his body abuse and without a dominant line he is chattle, especially now that he got paid. I thought he would be good again this year, but he hasn't been. Give him a hole and sure he can get yards, just like any RB. But there aren't always going to be holes and having a highly paid superstar who crumbles at first contact is a waste of money and wins.

 

[cacksman]

Well he is definitely better than Maurice Morris when healthy. Which is why he will start over Morris when he gets his cast off.

He hasnt looked good this year but no one would running behind that line, especially exclusively to the right. I know you have a personal vendetta against SA but he will play when he is healthy because it is the best thing for the team and you are just going to have to suck it up.

 

[MarcO]

Well he is definitely better than Maurice Morris when healthy. Which is why he will start over Morris when he gets his cast off. He hasnt looked good this year but no one would running behind that line, especially exclusively to the right. I know you have a personal vendetta against SA but he will play when he is healthy because it is the best thing for the team and you are just going to have to suck it up.

If I remember correctly, he will not be getting his cast off this year. How old are you - it seems like you went looking for an arguement with MAD Sweeny and when you got one you curled up like Shaun Alexander behind the line of scrimmage with: "Well he is definitely better than Maurice Morris ..." and "you are just going to have to suck it up"...look - I think Alexander is hurting in more places than his wrist - maybe his ankle, maybe his knee, maybe his heart... But wherever it is - he is not running hard and he is certainly not trying to run through a tackle. I think he can still be a good RB when healthy but who knows when that will be - this year? maybe next? it will make a hard decision for Holmgren - do you let him play when his legs are fine but he still has a cast on hiswrist. it will be back to tipping off the DEF - if SA is in it will be a run, if Morris is in - will it be a pass or a delayed draw? I just can't see SA having success this year unless he is totally healthy. And I don't think you can compare what Morris is doing with what SA did or may do this season - because Alexander has not been healthy all year. Bottom line is that Morris may be better suited for the SEA offense right now and I don't mean that as a knock on Alexander.

 

[Enforcer]

Well he is definitely better than Maurice Morris when healthy.

Can you expand on this? Why is he better?

 

[kevjones22]

momo runs with purpose, sa is just a bum

 

[cacksman]

Well he is definitely better than Maurice Morris when healthy.

Can you expand on this? Why is he better?

Morris has only had 3, 100 yard games in his life. Last year alone, coming back from injury SA had 3, plus a 200+ against Green Bay. This was last year when he was coming off of a foot injury. This year his foot is healthy, he just fractured his wrist week 1 vs TB. There is a reason SA is the starter and Morris is the backup and its not just to piss off you guys.

 

[J R]

momo runs with purpose, sa is just a bum

and that about sums up the anti-SA camp, doesn't it, fellas? terms like "purpose" and "heart" and "curls up in a ball" are totally subjective meaningless terms usually added on post-hoc, not descriptive terms about real players and real events. they're for the kind of people that like sideline reporters and espn and cuts between closeups of players' faces b/c it gives them a narrative so they don't have to watch and try to figure things out for themselves.here's a question, though: why not use both of them?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

here's a question, though: why not use both of them?

A: SA has talent. MoMo doesnt. SAs effort this season has been terrible after the first couple weeks. Either SA can get back healthy and be a factor in the new offense for the team or he doesnt need to be on the field. Splitting carries isnt the answer. Heck, at this point Id like to see what Weaver could do with 12+ carries.

 

[Enforcer]

Well he is definitely better than Maurice Morris when healthy.

Can you expand on this? Why is he better?

Morris has only had 3, 100 yard games in his life. Last year alone, coming back from injury SA had 3, plus a 200+ against Green Bay. This was last year when he was coming off of a foot injury. This year his foot is healthy, he just fractured his wrist week 1 vs TB. There is a reason SA is the starter and Morris is the backup and its not just to piss off you guys.

Who's pissed off? I understand that Alexander had better stats in the past, but given the current situation I don't feel they're relevant. When given the chance Morris has run much better this year than Alexander has. I saw Morris break tackles and dart through a few holes last week. I haven't seen that out of Alexander even once this year. Not once.For this year I feel these stats are much more telling.

+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Shaun Alexander	  |  8 |  149   492   3.3   2  |   12	56   4.7   0 || Maurice Morris	   |  7 |   56   216   3.9   1  |	9   115  12.8   1 || Mack Strong		  |  5 |	4	19   4.8   0  |	9	72   8.0   0 || Leonard Weaver	   |  9 |   15	72   4.8   0  |   18   159   8.8   0 |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+

 

[Enforcer]

SA has talent. MoMo doesnt.

Could you be more specific here? How does Alexander's talent manifest itself on the field? What does he do well? More importantly, what has he done well this year?

 

[mad sweeney]

momo runs with purpose, sa is just a bum

and that about sums up the anti-SA camp, doesn't it, fellas? terms like "purpose" and "heart" and "curls up in a ball" are totally subjective meaningless terms usually added on post-hoc, not descriptive terms about real players and real events. they're for the kind of people that like sideline reporters and espn and cuts between closeups of players' faces b/c it gives them a narrative so they don't have to watch and try to figure things out for themselves.here's a question, though: why not use both of them?

I've watched every game he's played as a pro. That is a perfectly meaningful and accurate description of the real events that occur to the real RB when there is no hole to run through or he runs into any contact at or before the line. If you don't know that, then you obviously haven't watched him much.

 

[J R]

here's a question, though: why not use both of them?

A: SA has talent. MoMo doesnt. SAs effort this season has been terrible after the first couple weeks. Either SA can get back healthy and be a factor in the new offense for the team or he doesnt need to be on the field. Splitting carries isnt the answer. Heck, at this point Id like to see what Weaver could do with 12+ carries.

Well, I tend to agree with those first 2 sentences. It just doesn't sound like SA is going to be 100% again this year (or ever?) but I don't think 28 carries for Morris is the answer either. I'm curious to see what Weaver can do, too, but I don't know much about him, so I may just be an idiot for wondering about that.

 

[CalBear]

momo runs with purpose, sa is just a bum

and that about sums up the anti-SA camp, doesn't it, fellas? terms like "purpose" and "heart" and "curls up in a ball" are totally subjective meaningless terms usually added on post-hoc, not descriptive terms about real players and real events. they're for the kind of people that like sideline reporters and espn and cuts between closeups of players' faces b/c it gives them a narrative so they don't have to watch and try to figure things out for themselves.here's a question, though: why not use both of them?

I've watched every game he's played as a pro. That is a perfectly meaningful and accurate description of the real events that occur to the real RB when there is no hole to run through or he runs into any contact at or before the line. If you don't know that, then you obviously haven't watched him much.

Could you explain, then, how he set the NFL record for TDs while averaging 5.1 ypc, in a year when Morris averaged 4.1 ypc and scored just 1 TD on 71 carries?

 

[mad sweeney]

momo runs with purpose, sa is just a bum

and that about sums up the anti-SA camp, doesn't it, fellas? terms like "purpose" and "heart" and "curls up in a ball" are totally subjective meaningless terms usually added on post-hoc, not descriptive terms about real players and real events. they're for the kind of people that like sideline reporters and espn and cuts between closeups of players' faces b/c it gives them a narrative so they don't have to watch and try to figure things out for themselves.here's a question, though: why not use both of them?

I've watched every game he's played as a pro. That is a perfectly meaningful and accurate description of the real events that occur to the real RB when there is no hole to run through or he runs into any contact at or before the line. If you don't know that, then you obviously haven't watched him much.

Could you explain, then, how he set the NFL record for TDs while averaging 5.1 ypc, in a year when Morris averaged 4.1 ypc and scored just 1 TD on 71 carries?

Hmmm, lemme think....how about 6 reasons and a bonus one too- Walter Jones*, Steve Hutchinson*, Tobeck*, Gray, Locklear and Strong*. MoMo was an afterthought that whole year, just coming in for relief. SA shouldered the whole load (370 carries) and had gaping holes and massive cutback lanes the whole season. I doubt that many of MoMo's carries were inside the RZ, as he was strictly there to give SA a rest, the scoring plays went to SA. Additionally he was in a contract year and actually could actually be counted on for the "tough" yards as he had something liek 13/15 short conversions. That offseason he got a massive contract and hasn't been the same since. There's your bonus reason PRE contract, as opposed to post contract. Now he got hurt week1 last year so I gave him a pass, but he's really been quite pedestrian since the NFC championship. He hasn't cracked 50 yards in the last 4 games and has been outrushed in 3 of those by his backups in less carries.*=pro bowl (Tobeck was 2nd team)

And none of this changed the fact that he is known for curling up into a ball, which if you watch him you'll see exactly that. We used to call him Shaun Crumpler before the 04 and 5 seasons because that's what he does. Now that the line isn't as good, he does it more and more. Curling up into a ball. Watch next time he's in and you'll see.

 

[cacksman]

Well he is definitely better than Maurice Morris when healthy.

Can you expand on this? Why is he better?

Morris has only had 3, 100 yard games in his life. Last year alone, coming back from injury SA had 3, plus a 200+ against Green Bay. This was last year when he was coming off of a foot injury. This year his foot is healthy, he just fractured his wrist week 1 vs TB. There is a reason SA is the starter and Morris is the backup and its not just to piss off you guys.

Who's pissed off? I understand that Alexander had better stats in the past, but given the current situation I don't feel they're relevant. When given the chance Morris has run much better this year than Alexander has. I saw Morris break tackles and dart through a few holes last week. I haven't seen that out of Alexander even once this year. Not once.For this year I feel these stats are much more telling.



+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Name | G | RSH YARD AVG TD | REC YARD AVG TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Shaun Alexander | 8 | 149 492 3.3 2 | 12 56 4.7 0 || Maurice Morris | 7 | 56 216 3.9 1 | 9 115 12.8 1 || Mack Strong | 5 | 4 19 4.8 0 | 9 72 8.0 0 || Leonard Weaver | 9 | 15 72 4.8 0 | 18 159 8.8 0 |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+

Its like talking to a broad, it really is. I have stated many times that the reason for Alexander's struggles this year has been his fractured wrist that he suffered week 1. It took teams a couple weeks to realize that with his cast, SA can only run to the right side which makes him pretty easy to shut down. The reason I brought up games from last year is because his legs are probably more healthy now than they were last year after his injury and he still ran well. I guess I could say again that if and when SA gets his cast off, he will be a much better runner. Even better than Morris. But I'm sure someone will come back with an argument that shows Alexander's stats so far from this year to try to prove a point.

 

[Enforcer]

Its like talking to a broad, it really is.

Nothing else to fall back on but insults? I was hoping you wanted to discuss the issue.We disagree. The Seattle faithful will continue to cringe every time he touches the ball. Cast or no cast, his days are over IMO.

 

[cacksman]

Its like talking to a broad, it really is.

Nothing else to fall back on but insults? I was hoping you wanted to discuss the issue.We disagree. The Seattle faithful will continue to cringe every time he touches the ball. Cast or no cast, his days are over IMO.

Thanks for commenting on my actual post rather than singling out a certain sentence on which to reply to me.

 

[Enforcer]

Its like talking to a broad, it really is.

Nothing else to fall back on but insults? I was hoping you wanted to discuss the issue.We disagree. The Seattle faithful will continue to cringe every time he touches the ball. Cast or no cast, his days are over IMO.

Thanks for commenting on my actual post rather than singling out a certain sentence on which to reply to me.

What's the point? We disagree. I'm okay with that. You believe what you want and so will I. Why waste time trying to convince each other when its obvious that neither is going to budge from their position? When a discussion turns to insults its time to pack it in and move on.EDIT: Found this article at the TNT today.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/205218.html

Posted it another existing thread dedicated to Alexander.