MNF **Washington at Philadelphia** (-10.5, 43.5) (1 Viewer)

[dgreen]

Watching and analyzing the end of the game penalty on Graham. I respect the "letter of the law" interpetation of the rule.....but I do feel like this move by Heinike is one that is going to have to be better interpreted by the refs in the future,....otherwise any QB feeling immense pressure can drop to the ground in the hopes of getting a roughing the passer call.

Is this different than when the QB throws the ball (whether attempting an actual completion or throwing it away) and the expectation that is currently placed on defenders in that situation?

 

[ChicoCat]

Watching and analyzing the end of the game penalty on Graham. I respect the "letter of the law" interpetation of the rule.....but I do feel like this move by Heinike is one that is going to have to be better interpreted by the refs in the future,....otherwise any QB feeling immense pressure can drop to the ground in the hopes of getting a roughing the passer call.

Is this different than when the QB throws the ball (whether attempting an actual completion or throwing it away) and the expectation that is currently placed on defenders in that situation?

I'm not sure. I'd have to think about it more. On the surface, it feels more like the Kenny Pickett fake slide than anything else. Heinke was scrambling/running in this situation. He wasn't cocked to throw. It's my understanding that if Heinke had fumbled the ball....he'd be fair game to be hit on the ground.

I do think BG tried to slow it down when he heard the whistle or realized Heinke had possession. Like I said, I respect the letter of the law, but I don't know if any of us want a league that a QB can give himself up at the last second and fish for a roughing the passer call.

 

[dgreen]

Watching and analyzing the end of the game penalty on Graham. I respect the "letter of the law" interpetation of the rule.....but I do feel like this move by Heinike is one that is going to have to be better interpreted by the refs in the future,....otherwise any QB feeling immense pressure can drop to the ground in the hopes of getting a roughing the passer call.

Is this different than when the QB throws the ball (whether attempting an actual completion or throwing it away) and the expectation that is currently placed on defenders in that situation?

I'm not sure. I'd have to think about it more. On the surface, it feels more like the Kenny Pickett fake slide than anything else. Heinke was scrambling/running in this situation. He wasn't cocked to throw. It's my understanding that if Heinke had fumbled the ball....he'd be fair game to be hit on the ground.

I do think BG tried to slow it down when he heard the whistle or realized Heinke had possession. Like I said, I respect the letter of the law, but I don't know if any of us want a league that a QB can give himself up at the last second and fish for a roughing the passer call.

Assuming the ref was of the opinion that Heinicke was giving himself up, then I don't think there could have been a fumble. Play is over when a player gives themselves up, I believe. We already have a league where QBs, and any player (I think), can give themselves up. It just doesn't usually happen in that situation. It's usually beyond the LOS as a QB is running and then decides to slide. And in those situations, it's not that they are fishing for a roughing call, but taking an action within the rules to protect themselves. I admit I might have Commanders glasses on here, but I don't see what Heinicke did last night as being really any different than sliding and giving himself up 10 yards down the field after a scramble.

I think it's interesting to note that no foul was called on Reddick. His interaction with Heinicke was much more of a bang-bang play that couldn't really be avoided. He was closer, already lunging toward Heincke, and came in more with a wrap up than a hit. And there was apparently nothing wrong with what he did.

 

[ChicoCat]

Watching and analyzing the end of the game penalty on Graham. I respect the "letter of the law" interpetation of the rule.....but I do feel like this move by Heinike is one that is going to have to be better interpreted by the refs in the future,....otherwise any QB feeling immense pressure can drop to the ground in the hopes of getting a roughing the passer call.

Is this different than when the QB throws the ball (whether attempting an actual completion or throwing it away) and the expectation that is currently placed on defenders in that situation?

I'm not sure. I'd have to think about it more. On the surface, it feels more like the Kenny Pickett fake slide than anything else. Heinke was scrambling/running in this situation. He wasn't cocked to throw. It's my understanding that if Heinke had fumbled the ball....he'd be fair game to be hit on the ground.

I do think BG tried to slow it down when he heard the whistle or realized Heinke had possession. Like I said, I respect the letter of the law, but I don't know if any of us want a league that a QB can give himself up at the last second and fish for a roughing the passer call.

Assuming the ref was of the opinion that Heinicke was giving himself up, then I don't think there could have been a fumble. Play is over when a player gives themselves up, I believe. We already have a league where QBs, and any player (I think), can give themselves up. It just doesn't usually happen in that situation. It's usually beyond the LOS as a QB is running and then decides to slide. And in those situations, it's not that they are fishing for a roughing call, but taking an action within the rules to protect themselves. I admit I might have Commanders glasses on here, but I don't see what Heinicke did last night as being really any different than sliding and giving himself up 10 yards down the field after a scramble.

I think it's interesting to note that no foul was called on Reddick. His interaction with Heinicke was much more of a bang-bang play that couldn't really be avoided. He was closer, already lunging toward Heincke, and came in more with a wrap up than a hit. And there was apparently nothing wrong with what he did.

That's a good point.

 

[crushedspirit]

So now Goedert is apparently going to miss time due to that dirty play nobody in a striped shirt apparently saw.

So much for player safety. Fouls like that should be reviewable and followed up with an ejection. It was as flagrant as they come.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

That's a shame...

a Jerry Seinfeld cliporiginal clip from watchseinfeld

m.youtube.com

 

[TampaMike19]

That heinecke call was a ****ing joke. Never end a game on a ticky tack call especially when the defense did a great job or forcing the punt. Just dumb

 

[ffmail4me]

Eagles fans that are really upset...your team wasn't going undefeated anyway. And you don't want that added pressure. It was a rivalry game and anything can happen. Yes there were bad calls all night both ways, but Washington won that game more than Eagles lost it, you have to give them credit.

 

[Mister CIA]

Eagles fans that are really upset...your team wasn't going undefeated anyway. And you don't want that added pressure. It was a rivalry game and anything can happen. Yes there were bad calls all night both ways, but Washington won that game more than Eagles lost it, you have to give them credit.

Was it the 1989 Cowboys who went 1-15 with their only victory against Super Bowl Champs, the Redskins?

 

[ffmail4me]

Eagles fans that are really upset...your team wasn't going undefeated anyway. And you don't want that added pressure. It was a rivalry game and anything can happen. Yes there were bad calls all night both ways, but Washington won that game more than Eagles lost it, you have to give them credit.

Was it the 1989 Cowboys who went 1-15 with their only victory against Super Bowl Champs, the Redskins?

Pretty sure that's right. Seems like it happens on a very regular basis with this division.

 

[MikeApf]

The bigger lens here is that there were questionable calls both sides. It seems like we're totally fixated on the calls that went Washington's way: the hit on Heinicke and the missed facemask. Of the two calls, the missed facemask was the true break for Washington...that was a missed call. The call against Graham was ticky tack sure but they generally are going to make that call in 2022. That's 2022 NFL, not the ref handing the game to the Comms. You don't like the call as a Philly fan, I get that, but it's not a "screwjob."

Meanwhile, we're not talking about any calls that helped the Eagles. Late in the game, Comms would have had a critical third down conversion, but it was called back on an extremely controversial offensive PI call (the infamous "pick play") that both Aikman and Buck questioned. If they get that conversion, Comms run more clock and we might not even get to the Graham call. Sure, you can say it was "interpretation"...but how is that any different than ref interpretation on the Graham call? SImilarly, the defensive PI vs. Comms that gave the Eagles their second TD was also a bit weak in the eyes of many Comms fans. Again, you can say it was "interpretation." Yes, just like the Graham call was an interpretation. It goes both ways. The only one I see different is the facemask...they just flat out missed that call for sure.

One more thing: the week before, Comms are playing Minnesota and got hit with a very similar call at the end of the game. Minnesota is gonna kick a FG with 2 minutes left, after which Comms will have a chance to go down to score to win. D Lineman Ridgeway is called for a personal foul call hitting the center, who refuses to move after the ball is snapped. That gives Minnesota a first down and they run down the clock, and win the game. Eerily similar situation. Comms fans cry foul...say they got screwed. One week later, no one cares. No one is saying Comms should have won. No one is saying Vikings got lucky. It's just football.

My larger point here is that as football fans we really hyperfixate on a.) the last calls of the game or b.) the calls that went against our team. But even Siriani and Graham -- to their great credit -- have refused to blame the loss on the refs and have instead said you should focus on what you can control and make your own luck. Often we as fans don't get that perspective but are more focused on how "we were screwed." And I'm not singling out Eagles fans here -- though this is the current example. Fans of ALL teams, including the Comms, do it.

 

[jasvic]

The bigger lens here is that there were questionable calls both sides. It seems like we're totally fixated on the calls that went Washington's way: the hit on Heinicke and the missed facemask. Of the two calls, the missed facemask was the true break for Washington...that was a missed call. The call against Graham was ticky tack sure but they generally are going to make that call in 2022. That's 2022 NFL, not the ref handing the game to the Comms. You don't like the call as a Philly fan, I get that, but it's not a "screwjob."

Meanwhile, we're not talking about any calls that helped the Eagles. Late in the game, Comms would have had a critical third down conversion, but it was called back on an extremely controversial offensive PI call (the infamous "pick play") that both Aikman and Buck questioned. If they get that conversion, Comms run more clock and we might not even get to the Graham call. Sure, you can say it was "interpretation"...but how is that any different than ref interpretation on the Graham call? SImilarly, the defensive PI vs. Comms that gave the Eagles their second TD was also a bit weak in the eyes of many Comms fans. Again, you can say it was "interpretation." Yes, just like the Graham call was an interpretation. It goes both ways. The only one I see different is the facemask...they just flat out missed that call for sure.

One more thing: the week before, Comms are playing Minnesota and got hit with a very similar call at the end of the game. Minnesota is gonna kick a FG with 2 minutes left, after which Comms will have a chance to go down to score to win. D Lineman Ridgeway is called for a personal foul call hitting the center, who refuses to move after the ball is snapped. That gives Minnesota a first down and they run down the clock, and win the game. Eerily similar situation. Comms fans cry foul...say they got screwed. One week later, no one cares. No one is saying Comms should have won. No one is saying Vikings got lucky. It's just football.

My larger point here is that as football fans we really hyperfixate on a.) the last calls of the game or b.) the calls that went against our team. But even Siriani and Graham -- to their great credit -- have refused to blame the loss on the refs and have instead said you should focus on what you can control and make your own luck. Often we as fans don't get that perspective but are more focused on how "we were screwed." And I'm not singling out Eagles fans here -- though this is the current example. Fans of ALL teams, including the Comms, do it.

I don't think anyone thinks they lost because of the refs. The defense was hot garbage in the first half and they didn't deserve to win. But every fan is sick and tired of the officials having such an impact on games and it hurts especially hard when your team is already playing poorly or getting bad bounces, but still have a chance to pull it out and the officials make it that much harder. I just want consistent interpretation and implementation of the rules. For as much money as the NFL rakes in, splurge a little more on the officiating. I dunno.

 

[MikeApf]

The bigger lens here is that there were questionable calls both sides. It seems like we're totally fixated on the calls that went Washington's way: the hit on Heinicke and the missed facemask. Of the two calls, the missed facemask was the true break for Washington...that was a missed call. The call against Graham was ticky tack sure but they generally are going to make that call in 2022. That's 2022 NFL, not the ref handing the game to the Comms. You don't like the call as a Philly fan, I get that, but it's not a "screwjob."

Meanwhile, we're not talking about any calls that helped the Eagles. Late in the game, Comms would have had a critical third down conversion, but it was called back on an extremely controversial offensive PI call (the infamous "pick play") that both Aikman and Buck questioned. If they get that conversion, Comms run more clock and we might not even get to the Graham call. Sure, you can say it was "interpretation"...but how is that any different than ref interpretation on the Graham call? SImilarly, the defensive PI vs. Comms that gave the Eagles their second TD was also a bit weak in the eyes of many Comms fans. Again, you can say it was "interpretation." Yes, just like the Graham call was an interpretation. It goes both ways. The only one I see different is the facemask...they just flat out missed that call for sure.

One more thing: the week before, Comms are playing Minnesota and got hit with a very similar call at the end of the game. Minnesota is gonna kick a FG with 2 minutes left, after which Comms will have a chance to go down to score to win. D Lineman Ridgeway is called for a personal foul call hitting the center, who refuses to move after the ball is snapped. That gives Minnesota a first down and they run down the clock, and win the game. Eerily similar situation. Comms fans cry foul...say they got screwed. One week later, no one cares. No one is saying Comms should have won. No one is saying Vikings got lucky. It's just football.

My larger point here is that as football fans we really hyperfixate on a.) the last calls of the game or b.) the calls that went against our team. But even Siriani and Graham -- to their great credit -- have refused to blame the loss on the refs and have instead said you should focus on what you can control and make your own luck. Often we as fans don't get that perspective but are more focused on how "we were screwed." And I'm not singling out Eagles fans here -- though this is the current example. Fans of ALL teams, including the Comms, do it.

I don't think anyone thinks they lost because of the refs. The defense was hot garbage in the first half and they didn't deserve to win. But every fan is sick and tired of the officials having such an impact on games and it hurts especially hard when your team is already playing poorly or getting bad bounces, but still have a chance to pull it out and the officials make it that much harder. I just want consistent interpretation and implementation of the rules. For as much money as the NFL rakes in, splurge a little more on the officiating. I dunno.

Totally with you on that consistent interpretation of rules is the key thing...

 

[renesauz]

Watching and analyzing the end of the game penalty on Graham. I respect the "letter of the law" interpetation of the rule.....but I do feel like this move by Heinike is one that is going to have to be better interpreted by the refs in the future,....otherwise any QB feeling immense pressure can drop to the ground in the hopes of getting a roughing the passer call.

Is this different than when the QB throws the ball (whether attempting an actual completion or throwing it away) and the expectation that is currently placed on defenders in that situation?

I'm not sure. I'd have to think about it more. On the surface, it feels more like the Kenny Pickett fake slide than anything else. Heinke was scrambling/running in this situation. He wasn't cocked to throw. It's my understanding that if Heinke had fumbled the ball....he'd be fair game to be hit on the ground.

I do think BG tried to slow it down when he heard the whistle or realized Heinke had possession. Like I said, I respect the letter of the law, but I don't know if any of us want a league that a QB can give himself up at the last second and fish for a roughing the passer call.

Except it wasn't at the last second....not even close. BG took 5 or 6 steps after He knelt down

 

[fred_1_15301]

Watching and analyzing the end of the game penalty on Graham. I respect the "letter of the law" interpetation of the rule.....but I do feel like this move by Heinike is one that is going to have to be better interpreted by the refs in the future,....otherwise any QB feeling immense pressure can drop to the ground in the hopes of getting a roughing the passer call.

Is this different than when the QB throws the ball (whether attempting an actual completion or throwing it away) and the expectation that is currently placed on defenders in that situation?

I'm not sure. I'd have to think about it more. On the surface, it feels more like the Kenny Pickett fake slide than anything else. Heinke was scrambling/running in this situation. He wasn't cocked to throw. It's my understanding that if Heinke had fumbled the ball....he'd be fair game to be hit on the ground.

I do think BG tried to slow it down when he heard the whistle or realized Heinke had possession. Like I said, I respect the letter of the law, but I don't know if any of us want a league that a QB can give himself up at the last second and fish for a roughing the passer call.

Except it wasn't at the last second....not even close. BG took 5 or 6 steps after He knelt down

Just watched it over and over in slow mo. Graham had a clear view of him kneeled down and then took at least 3-4 steps before hitting him. I don’t see the other side’s argument at all.