Moss (1 Viewer)

[Hinezer]

Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep.  If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...

I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.

You're kidding right? Someone makes an extreme statement to make fun of your extreme Randy Moss love and you agree with it?

 

[jurb26]

Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep. If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...

I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.

You're kidding right? Someone makes an extreme statement to make fun of your extreme Randy Moss love and you agree with it?

Wow did you ever miss the point of jcjets post. Hew was simply emphasizing the point that Moss would support his new QB no matter who it was. Making fun of the fact that this should be a NONstory. Moss hater's however have tried to create one were there never should have been one. That is who looks foolish here.

 

[Tau837]

You are forgetting something in your stats. Moss didn't play in the second half of game #5 and Culpepper had more yards in the 2nd half than he did in the 1st.

This is false. It is game 5 but week 6 vs. NO that Moss got hurt. Culpepper threw for 284 yards, 3 TDs, and 8 first downs in the first half and only 141 yards, 2 TDs, and 6 first downs in the second half. I'm not saying he played poorly... 141/2/0 in one half of play is very good... but still, the splits in that game support jwvdcw's point.EDIT to add the link: Culpepper Game Logs

The real myth here is that Culpepper is going to struggle without Moss.  Culpepper will become a better QB with Moss gone.  His stats may not be as good right away, but they will be.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying. I can see an argument that Culpepper will become a better QB without Moss to rely on. Part of that will come simply through more game experience & maturity. And part will come because he will actually be forced to read defenses better, now that the safety won't be cheating to Moss on every single pass play, and as he learns that, he actually becomes a better (read: more skilled) QB.However, I cannot see an argument that Culpepper will become a better FANTASY QB without Moss. Reasons:

1. More skilled does not always equal more productive. QB ratings don't score fantasy points.

2. Better implies that Culpepper has not yet peaked, but it is quite likely that he peaked as a fantasy performer last season, when he had one of the top few fantasy QB seasons of all time and exceeded his career highs by ridiculous margins.

3. The Vikes could well change their offense to be more balanced, meaning fewer pass attempts and, just as importantly, shorter pass attempts and/or less red zone/goal line passing. There have been some indications of moving in that direction.

Finally, if we're going to compare numbers with & without Moss last season, here they are in a bit more detail:

Culpepper with healthy Moss last season:

+----------+--------------------------+----------------+| WK  OPP  |  CMP  ATT   PYD  TD  INT |  RSH    YD  TD |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+|  1  dal  |   17   23   242   5   0  |    6    25   0 ||  2  phi  |   37   47   343   1   1  |    8    41   0 ||  3  chi  |   19   30   360   2   0  |    6    13   1 ||  5  hou  |   36   50   396   5   0  |    6    30   0 ||  6  nor  |   26   37   425   5   2  |    7    13   0 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+|  TOTAL   |  135  187  1766  18   3  |   33   122   1 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+72.2% completion percentage and 9.4 ypa.  Scales to 16 game totals of 5651 passing yards, 58 passing TDs, and 10 interceptions.  Culpepper with unhealthy but playing Moss last season:

+----------+--------------------------+----------------+| WK  OPP  |  CMP  ATT   PYD  TD  INT |  RSH    YD  TD |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+| 12  jax  |   19   27   235   1   1  |    8    18   1 || 13  chi  |   23   33   279   2   3  |    6    50   0 || 14  sea  |   21   33   270   1   0  |    6    32   0 || 15  det  |   25   35   404   3   1  |    4    22   0 || 16  gnb  |   16   23   285   3   0  |    3    21   0 || 17  was  |   27   44   299   2   0  |    2    24   0 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+|  TOTAL   |  131  195  1772  12   5  |   29   167   1 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+67.2% completion percentage and 9.1 ypa.  Scales to 16 game totals of 4725 passing yards, 32 passing TDs, and 13 interceptions.Culpepper without Moss last season:

+----------+--------------------------+----------------+| WK  OPP  |  CMP  ATT   PYD  TD  INT |  RSH    YD  TD |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+|  7  ten  |   24   30   183   1   0  |    3     4   0 ||  8  nyg  |   24   42   231   1   2  |    5    32   0 ||  9  ind  |   16   19   169   1   0  |    5    27   0 || 10  gnb  |   27   44   363   4   0  |    3    19   0 || 11  det  |   22   32   233   2   1  |   11    35   0 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+|  TOTAL   |  113  167  1179  9   3  |   27   117   0 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+67.7% completion percentage and 7.1 ypa.  Scales to 16 game totals of 3772 passing yards, 29 passing TDs, and 10 interceptions.The numbers Culpepper posted in games missed by Moss are solid, but they are a far cry from the numbers with Moss.  Without Moss, yards per attempt dropped substantially, as Culpepper presumably threw more to the backs and tight ends.  Passing attempts also dropped, as the Vikes presumably focused more on the running game.

I realize that it is different preparing for the loss of Moss in offseason/preseason than adjusting in mid season. But it is still a solid counterpoint to those who think Culpepper will suffer no dropoff.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

You are forgetting something in your stats. Moss didn't play in the second half of game #5 and Culpepper had more yards in the 2nd half than he did in the 1st.

This is false. It is game 5 but week 6 vs. NO that Moss got hurt. Culpepper threw for 284 yards, 3 TDs, and 8 first downs in the first half and only 141 yards, 2 TDs, and 6 first downs in the second half. I'm not saying he played poorly... 141/2/0 in one half of play is very good... but still, the splits in that game support jwvdcw's point.EDIT to add the link: Culpepper Game Logs

The real myth here is that Culpepper is going to struggle without Moss.  Culpepper will become a better QB with Moss gone.  His stats may not be as good right away, but they will be.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying. I can see an argument that Culpepper will become a better QB without Moss to rely on. Part of that will come simply through more game experience & maturity. And part will come because he will actually be forced to read defenses better, now that the safety won't be cheating to Moss on every single pass play, and as he learns that, he actually becomes a better (read: more skilled) QB.However, I cannot see an argument that Culpepper will become a better FANTASY QB without Moss. Reasons:

1. More skilled does not always equal more productive. QB ratings don't score fantasy points.

2. Better implies that Culpepper has not yet peaked, but it is quite likely that he peaked as a fantasy performer last season, when he had one of the top few fantasy QB seasons of all time and exceeded his career highs by ridiculous margins.

3. The Vikes could well change their offense to be more balanced, meaning fewer pass attempts and, just as importantly, shorter pass attempts and/or less red zone/goal line passing. There have been some indications of moving in that direction.

Finally, if we're going to compare numbers with & without Moss last season, here they are in a bit more detail:

Culpepper with healthy Moss last season:

+----------+--------------------------+----------------+| WK  OPP  |  CMP  ATT   PYD  TD  INT |  RSH    YD  TD |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+|  1  dal  |   17   23   242   5   0  |    6    25   0 ||  2  phi  |   37   47   343   1   1  |    8    41   0 ||  3  chi  |   19   30   360   2   0  |    6    13   1 ||  5  hou  |   36   50   396   5   0  |    6    30   0 ||  6  nor  |   26   37   425   5   2  |    7    13   0 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+|  TOTAL   |  135  187  1766  18   3  |   33   122   1 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+72.2% completion percentage and 9.4 ypa.  Scales to 16 game totals of 5651 passing yards, 58 passing TDs, and 10 interceptions.  Culpepper with unhealthy but playing Moss last season:

+----------+--------------------------+----------------+| WK  OPP  |  CMP  ATT   PYD  TD  INT |  RSH    YD  TD |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+| 12  jax  |   19   27   235   1   1  |    8    18   1 || 13  chi  |   23   33   279   2   3  |    6    50   0 || 14  sea  |   21   33   270   1   0  |    6    32   0 || 15  det  |   25   35   404   3   1  |    4    22   0 || 16  gnb  |   16   23   285   3   0  |    3    21   0 || 17  was  |   27   44   299   2   0  |    2    24   0 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+|  TOTAL   |  131  195  1772  12   5  |   29   167   1 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+67.2% completion percentage and 9.1 ypa.  Scales to 16 game totals of 4725 passing yards, 32 passing TDs, and 13 interceptions.Culpepper without Moss last season:

+----------+--------------------------+----------------+| WK  OPP  |  CMP  ATT   PYD  TD  INT |  RSH    YD  TD |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+|  7  ten  |   24   30   183   1   0  |    3     4   0 ||  8  nyg  |   24   42   231   1   2  |    5    32   0 ||  9  ind  |   16   19   169   1   0  |    5    27   0 || 10  gnb  |   27   44   363   4   0  |    3    19   0 || 11  det  |   22   32   233   2   1  |   11    35   0 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+|  TOTAL   |  113  167  1179  9   3  |   27   117   0 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+67.7% completion percentage and 7.1 ypa.  Scales to 16 game totals of 3772 passing yards, 29 passing TDs, and 10 interceptions.The numbers Culpepper posted in games missed by Moss are solid, but they are a far cry from the numbers with Moss.  Without Moss, yards per attempt dropped substantially, as Culpepper presumably threw more to the backs and tight ends.  Passing attempts also dropped, as the Vikes presumably focused more on the running game.

I realize that it is different preparing for the loss of Moss in offseason/preseason than adjusting in mid season. But it is still a solid counterpoint to those who think Culpepper will suffer no dropoff.

Great post, and those of you who think that Culpepper will have just as much fantasy success without Moss on the team are dreaming. This does not mean that Culpepper won't have a productive year and maybe be one of the top fantasy QB's. It just means that even though his number may and probably will be good, they would definitely be better with Moss there full time. This is not very difficult to see.

 

[Chase Stuart]

It's tough for me to buy into the idea that Collins is better at reading defense when he's thrown more INTs than TDs in his 10 year career, has never thrown for more than 22 TDs in a season, and has completed 60% or more of his passes just once (but three for less than 50% twice).

I'm one of those people who feels Collins will stil suck regardless of who he has to throw to. When you throw balls 10 feet over receiver's head or to defensive backs, it's hard to put up decent numbers even when you are trying to target Randy Moss. I'd be amazed if Collins finishes in the top 10 this year.

He was 15 last year. W/o Moss and (-) 2 games. I think top 10 is a rather safe bet for him this year.

That's a little misleading. It shouldn't be read "he was good enough to be 15th since he only played 14 games", since he actually ranked higher in FPs (15th) than in FP/G (16th). So he needs to be six spots better to expect to rank in the top 10 this year.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Didn't Daunte play around half the season without Moss and still put up fine numbers, I mean he was the #1 QB in our league last year.

Next 5 weeks: Moss injured6. 183-1

7. 231-2

8. 169-1

9. 363-4

10. 233-2

average: 235.8 yards and 2 TDs

Those numbers look fine to me. That's 3,773 passing yards and 32 TDs in a season, not counting rushing stats.Number of seasons Collins has 3773 passing yards: 1/11

Number of seasons Collins has 32 passing TDs: 0/11

 

[Bri]

IIRC Daunte took over a winning team and they got worse.I did not expect the Panthers to make it to the championship game. I did not expect the Giants to make it to the Supe. I don't know anyone that predicted either team to do that well. His Penn state teams were pretty awesome too IIRC. He wins.IIRC Daunte and Moss didn't do so well against KC's Giants that year in the NFC Championship game.He's a far far far better leader than Daunte.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.

You do realize just how easy it would be to turn these comments around in Collin's favor I hope. Using Moss as a catalyst.

You've had WAY TOO MUCH MOSS KOOLAID!

 

[Ozymandias]

I think Moss was making a racist statement. We all know that "athleticism" is a code word for "black". And "better at reading defenses" is a code word for white.That Randy Moss is some racist ##############.The above makes about as much sense as some of the other comments.

 

[poopdawg]

I used to hate Moss, but now I have him on my side. Traded C Portis and a 6th rounder for Moss and a 1st. I think I raped the owner.

 

[Chase Stuart]

IIRC Daunte took over a winning team and they got worse.

I did not expect the Panthers to make it to the championship game. I did not expect the Giants to make it to the Supe. I don't know anyone that predicted either team to do that well. His Penn state teams were pretty awesome too IIRC. He wins.

IIRC Daunte and Moss didn't do so well against KC's Giants that year in the NFC Championship game.

He's a far far far better leader than Daunte.

The Vikings made a one game improvement the first year Culpepper started.Collins is 7-17 as a starter the past two seasons.

 

[jwvdcw]

Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep.  If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...

I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.

You're kidding right? Someone makes an extreme statement to make fun of your extreme Randy Moss love and you agree with it?

 

[BassNBrew]

Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep.  If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...

I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.

You're kidding right? Someone makes an extreme statement to make fun of your extreme Randy Moss love and you agree with it?

Can we ask Moss again? Both now 0-2. C-Pep used to find a wide open Moss, Collins ignores him unless he's covered.

 

[Hinezer]

Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep.  If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...

I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.

You're kidding right? Someone makes an extreme statement to make fun of your extreme Randy Moss love and you agree with it?

Is Collins really better than last year?2004, 14 games: 249.6 YPG and 1.5 TD/G

2005, 2 games: 264 YPG and 2 TD/G

Do I need to convert those to feet for you?

 

[Babu Bhatt]

Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep.  If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...

I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.

You're kidding right? Someone makes an extreme statement to make fun of your extreme Randy Moss love and you agree with it?

Is Collins really better than last year?2004, 14 games: 249.6 YPG and 1.5 TD/G

2005, 2 games: 264 YPG and 2 TD/G

Do I need to convert those to feet for you?

An extra .5 TDs per game is 8 extra TDs over the course of a season. Thats alot of TDs, and alot of extra Fantasy points.

 

[Hinezer]

Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep.  If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...

I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.

You're kidding right? Someone makes an extreme statement to make fun of your extreme Randy Moss love and you agree with it?

Is Collins really better than last year?2004, 14 games: 249.6 YPG and 1.5 TD/G

2005, 2 games: 264 YPG and 2 TD/G

Do I need to convert those to feet for you?

An extra .5 TDs per game is 8 extra TDs over the course of a season. Thats alot of TDs, and alot of extra Fantasy points.

But Moss is supposed to make him a superstar...

 

[Babu Bhatt]

Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep.  If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...

I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.

You're kidding right? Someone makes an extreme statement to make fun of your extreme Randy Moss love and you agree with it?

Is Collins really better than last year?2004, 14 games: 249.6 YPG and 1.5 TD/G

2005, 2 games: 264 YPG and 2 TD/G

Do I need to convert those to feet for you?

An extra .5 TDs per game is 8 extra TDs over the course of a season. Thats alot of TDs, and alot of extra Fantasy points.

But Moss is supposed to make him a superstar...

2 TDs per game=32 TDs for a season=superstar

 

[Hinezer]

Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep.  If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...

I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.

You're kidding right? Someone makes an extreme statement to make fun of your extreme Randy Moss love and you agree with it?

Is Collins really better than last year?2004, 14 games: 249.6 YPG and 1.5 TD/G

2005, 2 games: 264 YPG and 2 TD/G

Do I need to convert those to feet for you?

An extra .5 TDs per game is 8 extra TDs over the course of a season. Thats alot of TDs, and alot of extra Fantasy points.

But Moss is supposed to make him a superstar...

2 TDs per game=32 TDs for a season=superstar

He's supposed to put up numbers like Culpepper did last year, since that was all because of Moss.

 

[lod2005]

Culpepperbust is not proving him wrong.

 

[Gamblor]

Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep. If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...

I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.

You're kidding right? Someone makes an extreme statement to make fun of your extreme Randy Moss love and you agree with it?

Is Collins really better than last year?2004, 14 games: 249.6 YPG and 1.5 TD/G

2005, 2 games: 264 YPG and 2 TD/G

Do I need to convert those to feet for you?

An extra .5 TDs per game is 8 extra TDs over the course of a season. Thats alot of TDs, and alot of extra Fantasy points.

But Moss is supposed to make him a superstar...

Not that I think Kerry can keep it up or that it means anything after 2 games, but too discount Collins for only throwing 2 TDs a game is pretty stupid. As far as I can tell only 3 times since 2002 has a QB thrown 32 or more TDs in a season.

 

[Jobber]

I used to hate Moss, but now I have him on my side. Traded C Portis and a 6th rounder for Moss and a 1st.

I think I raped the owner.

Yes, you should go to prison for what you did to that guy. Nice foresight!

 

[j3r3m3y]

LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.

You do realize just how easy it would be to turn these comments around in Collin's favor I hope. Using Moss as a catalyst.

Hey Jurb, let's not go down this road AGAIN. We just agree to disagree on the caliber of QB Collins is. Keep in mind I currently rank him 6th so I'm not suggesting Moss isn't going to help; he's going to help him tremendously. But Moss is about to find out just how different having Collins is at QB than Culpepper. Not only was Culpepper vastly more accurate, his mobility and the Vikings offensive line made him much more consistently effective than Collins who is a stone and can't handle pressure AT ALL.

Who is doing better this year?Daunte has been accurate... to anyone in an opposing teams Jersey. You rank Collins 6th, where do you have Daunte?

 

[Hinezer]

LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.

You do realize just how easy it would be to turn these comments around in Collin's favor I hope. Using Moss as a catalyst.

Hey Jurb, let's not go down this road AGAIN. We just agree to disagree on the caliber of QB Collins is. Keep in mind I currently rank him 6th so I'm not suggesting Moss isn't going to help; he's going to help him tremendously. But Moss is about to find out just how different having Collins is at QB than Culpepper. Not only was Culpepper vastly more accurate, his mobility and the Vikings offensive line made him much more consistently effective than Collins who is a stone and can't handle pressure AT ALL.

Who is doing better this year?Daunte has been accurate... to anyone in an opposing teams Jersey. You rank Collins 6th, where do you have Daunte?

Psst...even as terribly as Culpepper's been playing, his accuracy is still much better than Collins, nearly 10% better.And please notice that the post is from June 10th.

 

[LHUCKS]

It remains to be seen if Daunte can get by with mediocre WRs the way that Collins has.  You could definitely make the case.

Didn't Daunte play around half the season without Moss and still put up fine numbers, I mean he was the #1 QB in our league last year.Burleson, Williamson, Robinson, Campbell and Taylor is no slouch of a WR corps at all. Wiggins is also back from injury. They may have lost Moss, but that is still a fine looking receiving corps.

Moss leaving doesn't scare me so much for Culpepper, its the fact that their defense may be getting on paper and Culpepper won't be gunning as much this season if they aren't in big shootouts.

 

[j3r3m3y]

LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.

You do realize just how easy it would be to turn these comments around in Collin's favor I hope. Using Moss as a catalyst.

Hey Jurb, let's not go down this road AGAIN. We just agree to disagree on the caliber of QB Collins is. Keep in mind I currently rank him 6th so I'm not suggesting Moss isn't going to help; he's going to help him tremendously. But Moss is about to find out just how different having Collins is at QB than Culpepper. Not only was Culpepper vastly more accurate, his mobility and the Vikings offensive line made him much more consistently effective than Collins who is a stone and can't handle pressure AT ALL.

Who is doing better this year?Daunte has been accurate... to anyone in an opposing teams Jersey. You rank Collins 6th, where do you have Daunte?

Psst...even as terribly as Culpepper's been playing, his accuracy is still much better than Collins, nearly 10% better.And please notice that the post is from June 10th.

Psst... completion % is not equal to accuracy. And yeah, I missed the date, do you still rank Daunte above Collins in FFP production this year?

 

[Bull Dozier]

LOL...someone needs to show Randy some game film of Collins career. He looks great with that rocket arm in PRACTICE, but just wait until half of the passes that use to be right into Moss' arms are thrown way behind him or over his head.

You do realize just how easy it would be to turn these comments around in Collin's favor I hope. Using Moss as a catalyst.

Hey Jurb, let's not go down this road AGAIN. We just agree to disagree on the caliber of QB Collins is. Keep in mind I currently rank him 6th so I'm not suggesting Moss isn't going to help; he's going to help him tremendously. But Moss is about to find out just how different having Collins is at QB than Culpepper. Not only was Culpepper vastly more accurate, his mobility and the Vikings offensive line made him much more consistently effective than Collins who is a stone and can't handle pressure AT ALL.

Who is doing better this year?Daunte has been accurate... to anyone in an opposing teams Jersey. You rank Collins 6th, where do you have Daunte?

Psst...even as terribly as Culpepper's been playing, his accuracy is still much better than Collins, nearly 10% better.And please notice that the post is from June 10th.

As j3r3 said, completion percentage does not equal accuracy. Culpepper has thrown a number of ill advised passes that other QBs would have thrown away, but Culpepper gets the completion at the expense of putting his receiver in a bad position. The screen pass to Bennett resulting in his 2nd fumble is exhibit A.

 

[LawFitz]

It remains to be seen if Daunte can get by with mediocre WRs the way that Collins has. You could definitely make the case.

Didn't Daunte play around half the season without Moss and still put up fine numbers, I mean he was the #1 QB in our league last year.Burleson, Williamson, Robinson, Campbell and Taylor is no slouch of a WR corps at all. Wiggins is also back from injury. They may have lost Moss, but that is still a fine looking receiving corps.

Moss leaving doesn't scare me so much for Culpepper, its the fact that their defense may be getting on paper and Culpepper won't be gunning as much this season if they aren't in big shootouts.

I agree with you Hucks. I've stated now in several threads the case against this on-going perception that CPepp did well last year w/o Moss. If you look at the 4 games that Moss actually missed, Pepp was terrible for the first three, then had a big game in a shootout against the Packers horrendous D.Before Moss got hurt Pepp had THREE 5 TD games, then all of a sudden was throwing one or no TDs and <200 yds. It wasn't until Moss came back (half healthy) and started taking attention away from the other WRs that Daunte's numbers got better again.

I am surprised to see Daunte this bad, but not entirely shocked. I still think he gets better, but it's gonna be tough for the guy since he's never had to face defenses for an entire season without Moss drawing 2.5 players to one side on EVERY play.

Now I just need to convince myself that Manning will be okay (PMan AND Wayne owner :( )

 

[jurb26]

Blah blah blah...If Moss went to the Giants, then Eli would be better than CPep. If Moss wne to the Dolphins then A.J. would read defenses better than any QB he has played with...

I actually agree with both of those statements btw. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Moss is that damn good and makes that much of a difference.

You're kidding right? Someone makes an extreme statement to make fun of your extreme Randy Moss love and you agree with it?

Is Collins really better than last year?2004, 14 games: 249.6 YPG and 1.5 TD/G

2005, 2 games: 264 YPG and 2 TD/G

Do I need to convert those to feet for you?

An extra .5 TDs per game is 8 extra TDs over the course of a season. Thats alot of TDs, and alot of extra Fantasy points.

But Moss is supposed to make him a superstar...

2 TDs per game=32 TDs for a season=superstar

He's supposed to put up numbers like Culpepper did last year, since that was all because of Moss.

I hate to say it, but you are making yourself look rediculous. Collins had a prorated season of 3994/24 along with 23 ints. So far this year with Moss he is on pace for 4224/32 with 0 ints. Cpep has thrown not 1, NOT ONE, TD pass thus far this year w/o Moss and has 8 ints. when he threw 39 TDs last year and 11 ints all season. Collin is having his career best QB rating by a long shot at 93.8 up form a previous best of 85.4. Cpep is at a career low by a long shot at 41.6 when his previous low was 75.3. This isn't even close.

 

[R Dizzle]

This all goes to say...Moss makes the QB..The QB doesnt make Moss.

 

[Boone22]

It's tough for me to buy into the idea that Collins is better at reading defense when he's thrown more INTs than TDs in his 10 year career, has never thrown for more than 22 TDs in a season, and has completed 60% or more of his passes just once (but three for less than 50% twice).

I'm one of those people who feels Collins will stil suck regardless of who he has to throw to. When you throw balls 10 feet over receiver's head or to defensive backs, it's hard to put up decent numbers even when you are trying to target Randy Moss. I'd be amazed if Collins finishes in the top 10 this year.

He was 15 last year. W/o Moss and (-) 2 games. I think top 10 is a rather safe bet for him this year.

I understand the hype people are generating about Collins and I can see the logic but having watched Collins play for the Giants I just can't see him putting up top 10 numbers. Collins gets flustered to easily. He gets hurried or sacked a few times and he starts to panic. Defenses have a very easy time taking him out of his game and disrupting his rhythm. When that happens you can throw what little accuracy he had out the window. Despite Moss talent, I think Collins will continue to throw more INTs then TDs and will probably fall in the 10-15 ranged for QBs provided his O-line can provide decent pass protection.

I'm gonna hate myself for bumping this old thread but I'm so rarely right that I wanted to toot my own horn a bit. Collins finished ranked 13th in both of my standard performance scoring leagues. There's some interesting posts in this thread now that the season is just about over...