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Muhammad Ali -- RIP (1 Viewer)

Fick, we are all getting old.  There are icons dying like prince...and then there are legends like Ali.  Peace to the greatest. 

 
Tim - I agree with you more than most. But every post doesn't need to be used to inject a theme or statement.  It's a message board made of mostly white Guys between 25 and 55.  We aren't changing the world here on this digital corner. Settle down 

 
Ali's best years for boxing were spent out of the ring. And yet he may be the greatest heavyweight ever. But his most memorable contributions to humanity were outside the ring.

"I ain’t got no quarrel with them Viet Cong… No Viet Cong ever called me n#####. "

"I am a Muslim and there is nothing Islamic about killing innocent people in Paris, San Bernardino, or anywhere else in the world. True Muslims know that the ruthless violence of so called Islamic jihadists goes against the very tenets of our religion.

We as Muslims have to stand up to those who use Islam to advance their own personal agenda. They have alienated many from learning about Islam. True Muslims know or should know that it goes against our religion to try and force Islam on anybody.

Speaking as someone who has never been accused of political correctness, I believe that our political leaders should use their position to bring understanding about the religion of Islam and clarify that these misguided murderers have perverted people's views on what Islam really is."

 
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timschochet said:
Muhammad Ali was one of my greatest heroes. What I wrote earlier was inappropriate for this thread, especially in light of how this turned out. I apologized for that and I do so here again. 

That being said, some of the reaction has been way over the top. I didn't insult anyone here; I was asking for the bigotry against Muslim Americans to stop. That I do not apologize for, and I have already heard several others on the news and elsewhere make similar comments in light of this news. If you think that what I wrote makes me a disgusting human being then I suggest the problem is with you. 
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for you suggesting for suggesting is the problem.  Man take a look.  

 
timschochet said:
Muhammad Ali was one of my greatest heroes. What I wrote earlier was inappropriate for this thread, especially in light of how this turned out. I apologized for that and I do so here again. 

That being said, some of the reaction has been way over the top. I didn't insult anyone here; I was asking for the bigotry against Muslim Americans to stop. That I do not apologize for, and I have already heard several others on the news and elsewhere make similar comments in light of this news. If you think that what I wrote makes me a disgusting human being then I suggest the problem is with you. 
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Nope.  You have a problem.  I'm thinking a deep seeded thing about oppression.   Your racist comments override your actual knowledge of certain things.  I repeat; you have a problem with stuff like this.  IMO  

 
I’ve wrestled with alligators,
I’ve tussled with a whale.
I done handcuffed lightning
And thrown thunder in jail.
You know I’m bad.
just last week, I murdered a rock,
Injured a stone, Hospitalized a brick.
I’m so mean, I make medicine sick.
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RIP Greatest of All Time.

 
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world." - Muhammad Ali

We lost an icon ...we lost a legend ...R I P

 
I've told my Ali meeting story here before.  He was an incredibly gracious man, along with all the other superlatives you might foist upon him.  I'm immeasurably sad about this loss.

 
timschochet said:
Because Muslim Americans are being attacked on a regular basis by the man Republicans have chosen to be their leader. If that man had his way, and if Muhammad Ali were outside of the country right now, he would not be allowed back in. 
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Guess the mods merged threads, though I had plenty of stuff to say about Ali and other posters other than in an RIP thread; but it's RIP now, so...

RIP, Muhammad Ali. 

eta* And the threads I started are gone because I just don't care enough to fight this fight.  

 
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The great Ali ~ my first hero.

Ohhhh, to be 10 years old in the 60's again...

Rest in Peace, Champ. You've earned it...

 
There has never been a heavyweight with Ali's combination of speed, power, and smarts. The power, especially, often gets overlooked. He was, in his prime, the perfect fighter. 

Some others have posted here about having met him. I had the good fortune to do so, too, at a charity event a couple of decades ago. It wasn't much more than me shaking his hand and saying "nice to meet you, Champ". But I watched how he acted with all of these people like me fawning over him, and he was very gracious with all of them. Oh, and his response to my fan-boy blabbering? "That's an ugly shirt. Someone give this guy the number of my tailor". I got dissed by Ali.

Culturally, we've never had an athlete as important as Ali. Ever. 

 
Uruk-Hai said:
There has never been a heavyweight with Ali's combination of speed, power, and smarts. The power, especially, often gets overlooked. He was, in his prime, the perfect fighter. 

Some others have posted here about having met him. I had the good fortune to do so, too, at a charity event a couple of decades ago. It wasn't much more than me shaking his hand and saying "nice to meet you, Champ". But I watched how he acted with all of these people like me fawning over him, and he was very gracious with all of them. Oh, and his response to my fan-boy blabbering? "That's an ugly shirt. Someone give this guy the number of my tailor". I got dissed by Ali.

Culturally, we've never had an athlete as important as Ali. Ever. 
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Awesome story.  Totally fits.

 
This is really sad. I think of him standing over Liston, and him packing the Dome vs Spinks. America's lost something, as far as I'm concerned the Champ will never go down. RIP

 
bueno said:
Why goes it matter what their skin color is? Should we throw in Babe Ruth?
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There isn't anything all that significant about Babe. My point was that it shows how huge the issue of race was in the 20th century and how key a role sports played in redefining it.

 
No more interesting human I know of.  No one more a perfect synchronicity of grace, talent, time and place.  

 
If you really want to know about what kind of man Ali was think about this.  Take the biggest person in sports right now and ask yourself would he willing to not only give up his sport but risk going to jail for what he believes in.    He didn't do it because it was the current schtick to get popular like most people in sports do now.   He did it because he actually believed that the Vietnam war was wrong.  

 
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I'm not a believer in an afterlife, but this is one of those times that I sincerely hope I am wrong. That awful disease had made his spirit a prisoner in his own body. I'd love to believe it is now free rather than extinguished. 

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
If it helps, pick any other dominant athlete, in any sport, and imagine removing 4 years from their prime. 
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Bob Feller and Ted Williams  What do I win? 

Seriously, the man lost 3+ years of prime boxing because he stood up for his believes and paid a tremendous price for it. Kinda makes the 21st century concept of "adversity" in sports rather hollow, don't you think?

 
elguapo07 said:
Ted Williams.  RIP Champ...float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.
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Good call. I still think Ali was more dominant in his sport than Williams was in his and baseball and boxing are very apples and oranges. Ted Williams was definitely the man imo, but Ali was a giant.

 
Read and be educated, my son.

A prodigy who bypassed the minor leagues, Feller first played for the Indians at the age of 17. His career was interrupted by four years of military service in World War II, during which time he served as Chief Petty Officer aboard the USS Alabama. Feller became the first pitcher to win 24 games in a season before the age of 21. During his career, he threw no-hitters in 1940, 1946, and 1951. Feller also recorded 12 one-hitters (his no-hitters and one-hitters were records at the time of his retirement). He helped the Indians win a World Series title in 1948 and an American League-record 111 wins and the pennant in 1954. Feller led the American League in wins six times and in strikeouts seven times. In 1946, he recorded 348 strikeouts, a total not exceeded for 19 years. An eight-timeAll-Star, Feller was ranked 36th on Sporting News's list of the 100 Greatest Baseball Players and was named the publication's "greatest pitcher of his time". He was a finalist for the Major League Baseball All-Century Team in 1999.

Baseball Hall of Fame member Ted Williams called Feller "the fastest and best pitcher I ever saw during my career."[1] Hall of Famer Stan Musial believed he was "probably the greatest pitcher of our era."[1] He was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1962 on his first ballot appearance; at the time only three players ever had a higher percentage of ballot votes. He was elected the inaugural President of the Major League Baseball Players' Association and participated in exhibition games which featured players from both the Major and Negro Leagues. Feller died at the age of 92 in 2010.
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In terms of heavyweight boxing champions, Ali ranked himself #1, Jack Johnson #2, and Joe Louis #3. 

Johnson was similar to Ali in many ways in terms of his brashness and style. But American society was not ready for Jack Johnson, or any black athlete. They WERE ready for Joe Louis, but only because Louis, much like Jackie Robinson, presented a servile "I'm humble and just happy to be here" persona. Ali was the first major black athlete since Jack Johnson who was not servile, and changed sports forever. 

In terms of boxing style Ali was also similar to Johnson- great defensive skills, great counter puncher. Louis was more of a Mike Tyson type with an incredible knockout blow. 

 
Prior to the George Foreman fight in Zaire, Muhammad Ali was one of the most hated men in America. Among a certain type of conservative, only Jane Fonda "Hanoi Jane" garnered an equal amount of negative emotion. Their argument, which was not without merit, was that whether or not you approved of the Vietnam War, it was your duty as an American to serve, and that by refusing to do so Ali was spitting in the face of all the brave soldiers who were risking their lives on behalf of this country. Ali represented the hippies, the lazy undeserving youth,  the black radicals- all despised by the "silent majority". 

Only after Zaire (and at the same time the end of the Vietnam War) was Ali able to put this behind him. 

 
shadyridr said:
My mother use to tell me Ali was the first rapper.
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He had a record of him saying…things. 

Naw, he really does have a professional recording of himself way back when with those old school Capitol record fonts. 

 
Away from boxing, make the case to me that Ali was a "good" guy.....go!

(Honestly, I don't know much about him aside from what the news has said).

 
timschochet said:
Prior to the George Foreman fight in Zaire, Muhammad Ali was one of the most hated men in America. Among a certain type of conservative, only Jane Fonda "Hanoi Jane" garnered an equal amount of negative emotion. Their argument, which was not without merit, was that whether or not you approved of the Vietnam War, it was your duty as an American to serve, and that by refusing to do so Ali was spitting in the face of all the brave soldiers who were risking their lives on behalf of this country. Ali represented the hippies, the lazy undeserving youth,  the black radicals- all despised by the "silent majority". 

Only after Zaire (and at the same time the end of the Vietnam War) was Ali able to put this behind him. 
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News mentioned that he was a draft dodger.

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
NorvilleBarnes said:
Good call. I still think Ali was more dominant in his sport than Williams was in his and baseball and boxing are very apples and oranges. Ted Williams was definitely the man imo, but Ali was a giant.
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Good call. I still think Ali was more dominant in his sport than Williams was in his and baseball and boxing are very apples and oranges. Ted Williams was definitely the man imo, but Ali was a giant.
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Ali's cultural impact is undeniable.

But if you do a loose extrapolation of Williams career numbers, not even allowing for bigger, better, prime numbers, he would have likely broken Ruth's home run record and Aaron's RBI record, while hitting .340 and being the last guy to hit .400.

I believe he was also legitimately considered the best fighter pilot in the world during his time, much of this due to his extraordinary vision and timing.

And for what its worth, I further heard it said that he may have been the best bass fisherman in the world.

That said, Ali is a giant beyond compare but don't sleep on Ted and what his absence met.  Being the best in the world at two of the hardest things to do, combat fly and hit a baseball, its pretty impressive in its own right

 
Smack Tripper said:
Ali's cultural impact is undeniable.

But if you do a loose extrapolation of Williams career numbers, not even allowing for bigger, better, prime numbers, he would have likely broken Ruth's home run record and Aaron's RBI record, while hitting .340 and being the last guy to hit .400.

I believe he was also legitimately considered the best fighter pilot in the world during his time, much of this due to his extraordinary vision and timing.

And for what its worth, I further heard it said that he may have been the best bass fisherman in the world.

That said, Ali is a giant beyond compare but don't sleep on Ted and what his absence met.  Being the best in the world at two of the hardest things to do, combat fly and hit a baseball, its pretty impressive in its own right
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And he didn't have Parkinsons, I'm sure he would have founded both Facebook and Google.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
Ali didn't put anything behind him. He didn't give a flying #### what the Silent Majority thought. It was more that THEY got over it. 
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That's not true. He cared. He went out of his way to charm people, to get them to like him. He was distraught about his image in the early 1970s and worked to change it. But without compromising any of his core convictions. 

 
eoMMan said:
News mentioned that he was a draft dodger.
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Of course he was - and good for him.  This country was found on the idea of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" and therefore the government has no right to force anyone into slavery (i.e. the military).

 
timschochet said:
That's not true. He cared. He went out of his way to charm people, to get them to like him. He was distraught about his image in the early 1970s and worked to change it. But without compromising any of his core convictions. 
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You're wrong here, Tim. Ali knew he'd piss the establishment off, charm or no charm, and did so with malice-aforethought. A certain part of the world had to change to accept him; he wasn't changing to be accepted.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
You're wrong here, Tim. Ali knew he'd piss the establishment off, charm or no charm, and did so with malice-aforethought. A certain part of the world had to change to accept him; he wasn't changing to be accepted.
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Which is odd, this revisionist history of him. For somebody who referred to "all" "Jews," "Gentiles" and "Whites" as the devil, the intellectual contortions required to beatify him culturally are great, varied, and Orwellian. 

 
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timschochet said:
Because Muslim Americans are being attacked on a regular basis by the man Republicans have chosen to be their leader. If that man had his way, and if Muhammad Ali were outside of the country right now, he would not be allowed back in. 
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You are such a ####### #######. Welcome to my ignore list.

 
No contortions here. Dude was as screwed up as the rest of us; I never said otherwise.

Go find another poster to quote if you're trying to make some point.

 
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