MVP Watch (1 Viewer)

[cormanman]

The award will be sewn up in the next four weeks by one of the following:

LT - Duh, he's the clear leader of the pack at this point.

The others (in no particular order):

Steve Smith - team sucks without hims

Peyton Manning - obvious reasons

Drew Brees - he has revitalized that team and the whole city

Tony Romo - totally turned the Cowboys around, both in the win-loss column and their overall play as a team

Urlacher is just outside of the bubble and McNabb would have been in the running if not for the injury. Larry Johnson is also a bulbble guy.

 

[dickey moe]

1. LT -- should be a no-brainer

2. Brees -- he has revitalized that team.

3. Peyton Manning -- worthy of annual consideration.

4. Steve Smith -- the Panthers would be screwed without him. Can't believe a guy that size can be such a stud playmaker.

5. Frank Gore -- the 49ers have a slim chance to make the playoffs; they'd have absolutely no chance if it weren't for Gore. He IS the offense, and I figure his running has single-handedly won them at least 3 games.

 

[hotboyz]

Steve Mcnair is the definition of most valuable player

 

[Workhorse]

This seems very simple to me. The original poster is correct. Take Brees away from New Orleans and think about how good they would be. With Turner starting in LT2's spot the Chargers are still a decent team. Brees' value to that team is the highest in the league, followed very closely by Peyton Manning.

By that notion of most valuable, Brady should be the MVP. And I wouldn't put Brady in the top 5.LT2 is the runaway favorite, and it ain't even close.

 

[Ghost Rider]

1. Tomlinson

2. P. Manning

3. Brees

 

[parasaurolophus]

the fact that Mcnair still gets mentioned in these discussions is laughable. Even the year Mcnair tied Manning was absurd. Lets see what are criteria for measuring an MVP. Stats? Wins? Leadership?

Well Manning had more TDs, more yards, same ints i think, more games played, his team had a better record, and his team beat Mcnairs team TWICE. But Mcnair was Co-MVP??? Complete Joke.

to mention mcnair in even the same paragraph as LT2 this year is a complete insult.

 

[Colin Dowling]

1. Tomlinson2. P. Manning3. Brees

It's one of these 3. No one else is close. LT2 has been unreal, but it's very easy to forget how good Manning is, sort of like when Jordan (who I can't stand, FYI) was in the league and Karl Malone and Barkley won MVPs.

 

[Ghost Rider]

1. Tomlinson2. P. Manning3. Brees

It's one of these 3. No one else is close.

I agree, which is why I didn't even attempt to list a number 4 and a number 5.

LT2 has been unreal, but it's very easy to forget how good Manning is, sort of like when Jordan (who I can't stand, FYI) was in the league and Karl Malone and Barkley won MVPs.

Manning is no Jordan.

 

[Marc Levin]

the fact that Mcnair still gets mentioned in these discussions is laughable. Even the year Mcnair tied Manning was absurd. Lets see what are criteria for measuring an MVP. Stats? Wins? Leadership?Well Manning had more TDs, more yards, same ints i think, more games played, his team had a better record, and his team beat Mcnairs team TWICE. But Mcnair was Co-MVP??? Complete Joke.to mention mcnair in even the same paragraph as LT2 this year is a complete insult.

Wow - way to bring the hate.McNair was mentioned most OFTEN in this thread as comeback player, not as MVP.And Manning sits WAY THE F below Brees in the MVP race this year, so . . . whatevah.

 

[gman8343]

This seems very simple to me. The original poster is correct. Take Brees away from New Orleans and think about how good they would be. With Turner starting in LT2's spot the Chargers are still a decent team. Brees' value to that team is the highest in the league, followed very closely by Peyton Manning.

By that notion of most valuable, Brady should be the MVP. And I wouldn't put Brady in the top 5.LT2 is the runaway favorite, and it ain't even close.

I disagree. Brees is very much in the discussion IMO. The guy has completely revitalized a horrible team and is on pace for over 5,000 yds passing. If he leads NO to the playoffs I could envision him winning it the MVP, he's been that big a difference-maker.

 

[DPRugby]

1: LT

2: LT

3: LT

4: LT

5: Drew Brees

While Drew has done more than I could have ever imagined with NO (I'm a SD homer) and I'm very happy for him no one comes close this year to the magic LT has brought to the gridiron this season.

 

[SproutDaddy]

This seems very simple to me. The original poster is correct. Take Brees away from New Orleans and think about how good they would be. With Turner starting in LT2's spot the Chargers are still a decent team. Brees' value to that team is the highest in the league, followed very closely by Peyton Manning.

By that notion of most valuable, Brady should be the MVP. And I wouldn't put Brady in the top 5.LT2 is the runaway favorite, and it ain't even close.

I disagree. Brees is very much in the discussion IMO. The guy has completely revitalized a horrible team and is on pace for over 5,000 yds passing. If he leads NO to the playoffs I could envision him winning it the MVP, he's been that big a difference-maker.

Very, very . I think what people are doing is looking at this from more of a FF perspective than an NFL perspective. Think about the rookies Brees is using in that offense and what he has done with that.

 

[Colin Dowling]

1. Tomlinson2. P. Manning3. Brees

It's one of these 3. No one else is close.

I agree, which is why I didn't even attempt to list a number 4 and a number 5.

LT2 has been unreal, but it's very easy to forget how good Manning is, sort of like when Jordan (who I can't stand, FYI) was in the league and Karl Malone and Barkley won MVPs.

Manning is no Jordan.

If you had the first pick in a draft of 32 teams building from scratch, who would you select? (Manning)If you'd been in the same situation last year, who would you have taken? (Manning)The year before that? (Manning)And the year before that? (Manning)What about next year? (Manning)...and so on and so forth. He obviously doesn't have Jordan's rings or reputation at this juncture, and it's a different sport entirely, but Peyton Manning is the best football player in the NFL and has been/will be for some time barring injury.

 

[Ghost Rider]

1. Tomlinson2. P. Manning3. Brees

It's one of these 3. No one else is close.

I agree, which is why I didn't even attempt to list a number 4 and a number 5.

LT2 has been unreal, but it's very easy to forget how good Manning is, sort of like when Jordan (who I can't stand, FYI) was in the league and Karl Malone and Barkley won MVPs.

Manning is no Jordan.

If you had the first pick in a draft of 32 teams building from scratch, who would you select? (Manning)If you'd been in the same situation last year, who would you have taken? (Manning)The year before that? (Manning)And the year before that? (Manning)What about next year? (Manning)...and so on and so forth. He obviously doesn't have Jordan's rings or reputation at this juncture, and it's a different sport entirely, but Peyton Manning is the best football player in the NFL and has been/will be for some time barring injury.

Tomlinson is the best player in the NFL. I would not answer Manning to all of those questions.

 

[Colin Dowling]

1. Tomlinson2. P. Manning3. Brees

It's one of these 3. No one else is close.

I agree, which is why I didn't even attempt to list a number 4 and a number 5.

LT2 has been unreal, but it's very easy to forget how good Manning is, sort of like when Jordan (who I can't stand, FYI) was in the league and Karl Malone and Barkley won MVPs.

Manning is no Jordan.

If you had the first pick in a draft of 32 teams building from scratch, who would you select? (Manning)If you'd been in the same situation last year, who would you have taken? (Manning)The year before that? (Manning)And the year before that? (Manning)What about next year? (Manning)...and so on and so forth. He obviously doesn't have Jordan's rings or reputation at this juncture, and it's a different sport entirely, but Peyton Manning is the best football player in the NFL and has been/will be for some time barring injury.

Tomlinson is the best player in the NFL. I would not answer Manning to all of those questions.

Really? THat is interesting to me. Obviously I realize QB is a much different position then RB, but I still think Manning is the answer to all questions.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Really? THat is interesting to me. Obviously I realize QB is a much different position then RB, but I still think Manning is the answer to all questions.

Tomlinson would be a tough pick right now, simply because of all of the wear and tear RB's take, so Manning probably has more years left than LT2, but I would take Brady over Manning. Last year, this year, and next year.

 

[sinatravolta]

1. LT2 no question. Best player in the NFL right now and making a case for the best RB ever.2. Romo- Turned the Cowboys from a playoff hopefull to the best team in the NFC.3. Drew Brees- D. Henderson and T. Copper? Nuff said.4. Larry Johnson- Second best RB in the league.

I've got Romo on my fantasy team and I like him as much as most people or more - but #2 is ridiculous. He's started 5 games. You're going to put him ahead of Manning who has gone 10-1 and started 11 games???Romo has as good a supporting cast on offense and a much better D. You can say Romo has been as good for the last 5 games, but still - he's played half as much time. That does not an MVP make.

 

[bostonfred]

If you had the first pick in a draft of 32 teams building from scratch, who would you select? (Manning)If you'd been in the same situation last year, who would you have taken? (Manning)The year before that? (Manning)And the year before that? (Manning)What about next year? (Manning)...and so on and so forth. He obviously doesn't have Jordan's rings or reputation at this juncture, and it's a different sport entirely, but Peyton Manning is the best football player in the NFL and has been/will be for some time barring injury.

How can your answer not be Tom Brady? If you're starting a team with one guy, would you rather have the guy who has led the league in TDs with a pair of rookie receivers and a couple older receivers all of whom missed several games, who led the league in passing yards with starting wideouts who have since done bupkus on their respective teams, and a guy who has willed his team to a 9-3 record and already has over 2500 yards and 20 TDs through 11 games despite his receivers tipping balls up in the air to opposing defenders game after game, who has an incredible regular season and playoff record and an incredible record in comebacks? Or the guy who looks good when he's surrounded by first rounders and possible hall of famers like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Tarik Glenn, Edgerrin James, and now Joseph Addai? Sure, Manning might be very successful without all those studs around him. But we KNOW that Brady can be successful throwing to castoffs that no quarterback in the league could win with. Seriously, forget the playoffs and the Superbowls and the clutch performances and everything else. Let's set aside all of Brady's accomplishments over the years. Just look at the fact that Brady is currently leading the #7 offense in the NFL (#8 scoring offense), while Manning has just one more TD and less than 40 more passing yards per game throwing to that ridiculous assortment of receivers.

 

[sinatravolta]

And Manning sits WAY THE F below Brees in the MVP race this year, so . . . whatevah.

Really??? Could be if voters are looking for the feel-good story of New Orleans' rejuvenation. But New Orleans is 7-4 and finishes the season with SF, @Dallas, @Washington, @NYG, Carolina. Could be they finish better than 10-6, but I wouldn't totally count on it. Colts are 10-1, and finish the season @Tenn, @Jax, Cinci, @Houston, Miami. I'd expect 14-2 out of that. Both guys have good supporting casts on offense, and not very good D's. You could argue that Indy's offense is better than NO's outside the QBs, but it could also be argued that NO's has the better D, and plays in the much easier conference. You honestly think the Colts are going to go 14-2 and the Saints 10-6 and Manning is WAY THE F below Brees in the MVP voting? That could be true - but if it is - it's just because of the surprise factor - which honestly shouldn't be a consideration in MVP voting. I am not at all saying that Manning is like Jordan, but it wouldn't at all be like Jordan vs. Karl Malone or Charles Barkley - because those guys actually had teams that won more games and they put up similar stats in the regular season to Jordan in those years. FYI Manning still has a better passer rating than Brees this year - and obviously has led his team to more victories.It's more like if Shawn Kemp had one very good year in points scored, even if he had not that great a FG percentage, and his team didn't win all that many games, but because people didn't expect him to be that good - that he won MVP over Jordan.

 

[Colin Dowling]

If you had the first pick in a draft of 32 teams building from scratch, who would you select? (Manning)If you'd been in the same situation last year, who would you have taken? (Manning)The year before that? (Manning)And the year before that? (Manning)What about next year? (Manning)...and so on and so forth. He obviously doesn't have Jordan's rings or reputation at this juncture, and it's a different sport entirely, but Peyton Manning is the best football player in the NFL and has been/will be for some time barring injury.

How can your answer not be Tom Brady? If you're starting a team with one guy, would you rather have the guy who has led the league in TDs with a pair of rookie receivers and a couple older receivers all of whom missed several games, who led the league in passing yards with starting wideouts who have since done bupkus on their respective teams, and a guy who has willed his team to a 9-3 record and already has over 2500 yards and 20 TDs through 11 games despite his receivers tipping balls up in the air to opposing defenders game after game, who has an incredible regular season and playoff record and an incredible record in comebacks? Or the guy who looks good when he's surrounded by first rounders and possible hall of famers like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Tarik Glenn, Edgerrin James, and now Joseph Addai? Sure, Manning might be very successful without all those studs around him. But we KNOW that Brady can be successful throwing to castoffs that no quarterback in the league could win with. Seriously, forget the playoffs and the Superbowls and the clutch performances and everything else. Let's set aside all of Brady's accomplishments over the years. Just look at the fact that Brady is currently leading the #7 offense in the NFL (#8 scoring offense), while Manning has just one more TD and less than 40 more passing yards per game throwing to that ridiculous assortment of receivers.

INteresting post, and I see your point. I don't agree with it, but I see your point. I think that Manning's success has as much (of not more) to do with his stufy of the game and reading the defense and making the right decision at the right time. In other words, I think that a team is less likely to lose because of Manning then they would be with Brady. Obviously, a lot of other factors play in to that. Brady's defenses have helped him in a number of spots while Manning's defenses haven't done much. Conversly, Manning is surrounded by better pass-catching talent. This is a debate we will likely continue for years (brady v. manning on 100 different levels).

 

[Marc Levin]

And Manning sits WAY THE F below Brees in the MVP race this year, so . . . whatevah.

Really??? Could be if voters are looking for the feel-good story of New Orleans' rejuvenation. But New Orleans is 7-4 and finishes the season with SF, @Dallas, @Washington, @NYG, Carolina. Could be they finish better than 10-6, but I wouldn't totally count on it. Colts are 10-1, and finish the season @Tenn, @Jax, Cinci, @Houston, Miami. I'd expect 14-2 out of that. Both guys have good supporting casts on offense, and not very good D's. You could argue that Indy's offense is better than NO's outside the QBs, but it could also be argued that NO's has the better D, and plays in the much easier conference. You honestly think the Colts are going to go 14-2 and the Saints 10-6 and Manning is WAY THE F below Brees in the MVP voting? That could be true - but if it is - it's just because of the surprise factor - which honestly shouldn't be a consideration in MVP voting. I am not at all saying that Manning is like Jordan, but it wouldn't at all be like Jordan vs. Karl Malone or Charles Barkley - because those guys actually had teams that won more games and they put up similar stats in the regular season to Jordan in those years. FYI Manning still has a better passer rating than Brees this year - and obviously has led his team to more victories.It's more like if Shawn Kemp had one very good year in points scored, even if he had not that great a FG percentage, and his team didn't win all that many games, but because people didn't expect him to be that good - that he won MVP over Jordan.

No, the analogy is not appropriate - the individual's stats weigh into it in a major way. 3469 PY/19 TDs/10 INts. Only 2 TDs behind and 500 pass yards ahead of Manning.Brees is way out in front of the MVP race for QBs right now - but it is a moot point to argue since LT would have to get injured tomorrow to lose the MVP race.

 

[sinatravolta]

If you had the first pick in a draft of 32 teams building from scratch, who would you select? (Manning)If you'd been in the same situation last year, who would you have taken? (Manning)The year before that? (Manning)And the year before that? (Manning)What about next year? (Manning)...and so on and so forth. He obviously doesn't have Jordan's rings or reputation at this juncture, and it's a different sport entirely, but Peyton Manning is the best football player in the NFL and has been/will be for some time barring injury.

How can your answer not be Tom Brady? If you're starting a team with one guy, would you rather have the guy who has led the league in TDs with a pair of rookie receivers and a couple older receivers all of whom missed several games, who led the league in passing yards with starting wideouts who have since done bupkus on their respective teams, and a guy who has willed his team to a 9-3 record and already has over 2500 yards and 20 TDs through 11 games despite his receivers tipping balls up in the air to opposing defenders game after game, who has an incredible regular season and playoff record and an incredible record in comebacks? Or the guy who looks good when he's surrounded by first rounders and possible hall of famers like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Tarik Glenn, Edgerrin James, and now Joseph Addai? Sure, Manning might be very successful without all those studs around him. But we KNOW that Brady can be successful throwing to castoffs that no quarterback in the league could win with. Seriously, forget the playoffs and the Superbowls and the clutch performances and everything else. Let's set aside all of Brady's accomplishments over the years. Just look at the fact that Brady is currently leading the #7 offense in the NFL (#8 scoring offense), while Manning has just one more TD and less than 40 more passing yards per game throwing to that ridiculous assortment of receivers.

I don't say it's a no-brainer, but I have a number of problems with your argument. You're going to mention Joseph Addai and Dallas Clark, but not Corey Dillon, Laurence Maroney and Ben Watson? I think most people would take the Patriots' RBs and TE's over the Colts'. Yes he's getting old now - but we've now seen Edge without Manning and the Colts - and he looks like - well - he looks worse than guys like Marcel Shipp on the Cardinals - and they are a team with great WRs who should keep the D honest. And while he wasn't at his very best last year, he was extremely effective - and that was largely due to D's having to focus on Manning. I think Harrison and Wayne are very good - but it's hard to say how good they'd be on another team - they've always been with Manning and the Colts. He's obviously not on the team this year - but Branch I would still regard as a very good WR. His first year on the Seahawks has only been ok - but that's normal for switching teams. Brady has always had a better D on his side, and better coach. As for the Super Bowls you're "not even going to get into" but still mention in passing - I give Brady a lot of credit for the win over the Panthers. He gets some credit for the other 2, but honestly - the Pats D essentially beat the Rams, and McNabb lost the game for the Eagles. Brady does not deserve the bulk of the credit for either of those games. And as for this year - the two teams already played - in NE. And Manning was a lot better than Brady in that game. So, while I'm not saying there are no reasons the answer could be Brady, there are definitely many ways the answer could not be Brady.

 

[Marc Levin]

I think that is the proper asessment.

Manning = more important to his team's victories than Brady = to his team's victories.

 

[bostonfred]

INteresting post, and I see your point. I don't agree with it, but I see your point. I think that Manning's success has as much (of not more) to do with his stufy of the game and reading the defense and making the right decision at the right time. In other words, I think that a team is less likely to lose because of Manning then they would be with Brady. Obviously, a lot of other factors play in to that. Brady's defenses have helped him in a number of spots while Manning's defenses haven't done much. Conversly, Manning is surrounded by better pass-catching talent. This is a debate we will likely continue for years (brady v. manning on 100 different levels).

You're talking about wins again. Ask anyone whose winning record they'd rather have, Brady's or Manning's, and I think the answer will be Brady's. You're right, though, that Brady's benefitted from having a better defense. So let's remove it from the equation. Looking only at Marvin Harrison and nobody else. If Marvin Harrison joined the Patriots this year, do you think he would have 800 yards by now? Because if you could add just one wide receiver to the starting lineup who could get 800 yards, Brady would have more yards than Manning right now. That's pretty shocking, considering the status of the Patriots receiving corps. Ben Watson currently leads the Patriots in receptions, yards, and is tied for the lead in receiving TDs with three. He is on pace for a sub-1000 yard season. No wide receiver for the Patriots is on pace for even a 750 yard season. No running back is on pace for a 1000 yard season. No offensive lineman has been to the pro bowl since Brady became the starter. Only two offensive players besides Brady have been to the Pro Bowl in the last five years, and each for one year only. And yet the Patriots have been a top 10 scoring offense every year since Brady got here except 2003, when they were #12 because an over the hill Antowain Smith wasn't carrying the load anymore. And that year, Brady still passed for over 3600 yards outdueled BOTH co-MVPs Steve McNair and Peyton Manning in the playoffs and winning a shootout against Carolina in the Superbowl. Seriously, Tom Brady IS the New England offense, which is precisely why the Patriots can keep a top defense on the field year after year. The Colts spent yet another first round pick on offense this year, have first rounders at every starting skill position on offense, and spent over $100 million to have Manning throw the ball to them. If you were starting a team, would you rather have a guy who could give you a top ten offense year after year with virtually no help, or a guy who needs to be surrounded by talent to be effective? The answer seems obvious to me.

 

[bostonfred]

I think that is the proper asessment.Manning = more important to his team's victories than Brady = to his team's victories.

Wow. And yet, when Manning leads his team to three points in a playoff game, it's a team loss. Gotcha.

 

[sinatravolta]

And Manning sits WAY THE F below Brees in the MVP race this year, so . . . whatevah.

Really??? Could be if voters are looking for the feel-good story of New Orleans' rejuvenation. But New Orleans is 7-4 and finishes the season with SF, @Dallas, @Washington, @NYG, Carolina. Could be they finish better than 10-6, but I wouldn't totally count on it. Colts are 10-1, and finish the season @Tenn, @Jax, Cinci, @Houston, Miami. I'd expect 14-2 out of that.

Both guys have good supporting casts on offense, and not very good D's. You could argue that Indy's offense is better than NO's outside the QBs, but it could also be argued that NO's has the better D, and plays in the much easier conference.

You honestly think the Colts are going to go 14-2 and the Saints 10-6 and Manning is WAY THE F below Brees in the MVP voting?

That could be true - but if it is - it's just because of the surprise factor - which honestly shouldn't be a consideration in MVP voting. I am not at all saying that Manning is like Jordan, but it wouldn't at all be like Jordan vs. Karl Malone or Charles Barkley - because those guys actually had teams that won more games and they put up similar stats in the regular season to Jordan in those years. FYI Manning still has a better passer rating than Brees this year - and obviously has led his team to more victories.

It's more like if Shawn Kemp had one very good year in points scored, even if he had not that great a FG percentage, and his team didn't win all that many games, but because people didn't expect him to be that good - that he won MVP over Jordan.

No, the analogy is not appropriate - the individual's stats weigh into it in a major way. 3469 PY/19 TDs/10 INts. Only 2 TDs behind and 500 pass yards ahead of Manning.Brees is way out in front of the MVP race for QBs right now - but it is a moot point to argue since LT would have to get injured tomorrow to lose the MVP race.

Stats would weigh in most heavily on the Offensive Player of the Year voting or similar. And even there - I'm sorry - but the stat most writers will look at is Passer Rating - and guess what - Manning leads Brees (100.2 to 97.8). You can choose to ignore INTs because they matter less in fantasy or whatever your reason, but I guarantee you voters (and coaches) do not. And what does matter in votes for MVP as much as stats is wins - and the Colts are going to have more than the Saints do - and already do - by 3.

The only viable argument for Brees possibly being "way out in front" of Manning is sentimentality and the fact that Manning has won before and voters being ready to reward someone else. I would be willing to buy into these helping Brees' cause - although again - if NO finishes 10-6 or worse I seriously doubt that will be enough.

When McNair and Manning tied for the award:

both teams had 12-4 records
Manning outgained McNair by over 1,000 yards passing
Manning had 29 TDs to McNair's 24
McNair had the better passing rating: 100.4 to 99.0 thanks largely to fewer INTsYou honestly think Brees is way ahead when he is behind in QB rating, team record, TDs, but leads Manning in yards?

I agree Tomlinson should and probably will win. I expect Manning will finish ahead of Brees in the voting. Regardless - to say Brees is so far ahead of Manning is laughable.

 

[Marc Levin]

I think that is the proper asessment.Manning = more important to his team's victories than Brady = to his team's victories.

Wow. And yet, when Manning leads his team to three points in a playoff game, it's a team loss. Gotcha.

MVP = regular seasonManning suXor in the playoffs against NE - we have established that - what is your point?

 

[fuball]

LT2 pbvious

2) Romo Obvious

3)Manning Obvious

4)Brees Obvious

5) L. Johnson (only down here cause LT2 is so damm good)

Romo has to be considered for te time he has ad to get where he is.

 

[Marc Levin]

The only viable argument for Brees possibly being "way out in front" of Manning is sentimentality and the fact that Manning has won before and voters being ready to reward someone else. I would be willing to buy into these helping Brees' cause - ahead of Brees in the voting. Regardless - to say Brees is so far ahead of Manning is laughable.

OK. Hang your hat on that, then.Don't really care, though - all your effort with those numbers are nice (same with you, B-Fred), but th effort means nothing when an injury to LT is what will be required for either of those two guys to get any serious consideration this year.

 

[bostonfred]

I don't say it's a no-brainer, but I have a number of problems with your argument. You're going to mention Joseph Addai and Dallas Clark, but not Corey Dillon, Laurence Maroney and Ben Watson? I think most people would take the Patriots' RBs and TE's over the Colts'.

This is the first year that Brady's had Laurence Maroney, and Addai and Rhodes currently lead Dillon and Maroney by over 100 yards. Brady got one good year out of Corey Dillon, and one 1000 yard year out of Antowain Smith. That's not even close to comparable to the numbers Edge put up, and that's not even counting the edge James had in receiving. As for Clark vs. Watson, this is the first year that someone would say they'd rather have Watson. And Pollard was also very effective for the Colts. At best, the Patriots had a slight edge for one or two years at either of those positions, and even that's being generous.

Yes he's getting old now - but we've now seen Edge without Manning and the Colts - and he looks like - well - he looks worse than guys like Marcel Shipp on the Cardinals - and they are a team with great WRs who should keep the D honest. And while he wasn't at his very best last year, he was extremely effective - and that was largely due to D's having to focus on Manning. I think Harrison and Wayne are very good - but it's hard to say how good they'd be on another team - they've always been with Manning and the Colts.

That's a fair point. It's hard to say how good Wayne or Harrison would be without Manning. But we can look at the fact that the Colts have surrounded Manning with first round picks at every skill position, more so than any other team in the league, and the Colts have only led the league in scoring offense once, and never in yardage, and he has led the league in passing TDs exactly as many times as Brady over the same timespan.

He's obviously not on the team this year - but Branch I would still regard as a very good WR. His first year on the Seahawks has only been ok - but that's normal for switching teams.

That's why his numbers this year are even more impressive. He's keeping a pretty close pace with Manning despite losing Branch and Givens and everyone but Troy Brown.

Brady has always had a better D on his side, and better coach. As for the Super Bowls you're "not even going to get into" but still mention in passing - I give Brady a lot of credit for the win over the Panthers. He gets some credit for the other 2, but honestly - the Pats D essentially beat the Rams, and McNabb lost the game for the Eagles. Brady does not deserve the bulk of the credit for either of those games.

I'm not going to have this argument again.

And as for this year - the two teams already played - in NE. And Manning was a lot better than Brady in that game. So, while I'm not saying there are no reasons the answer could be Brady, there are definitely many ways the answer could not be Brady.

That's a fair point. How many games would you say Manning has outperformed Brady when they've met head to head?

 

[Marc Levin]

And as for this year - the two teams already played - in NE. And Manning was a lot better than Brady in that game. So, while I'm not saying there are no reasons the answer could be Brady, there are definitely many ways the answer could not be Brady.

That's a fair point. How many games would you say Manning has outperformed Brady when they've met head to head?

disagree their H2H meetings matter inthe MVP race. But, even so, the MVP is the MVP of the regular season, and I believe Manning's Colts versus Brady's Patriots in the regular season is a different story - much tighter games.Why don't those reg. season matchups occur in Indie more often? It is because the league knows Manning will struggle more up in NE.

 

[Ghost Rider]

For the record, even though I would take Brady over Manning, Brady is not a viable MVP candidate this season, IMO. He has been too inconsistent at times.

 

[red]

the argument re: MVP is most dominant player from a league point of view or most valuable player to his team...traditionally, the award has almost always gone to the player who has put together the most impressive season (usually stat-wise, but sometimes just in sheer domination and media hype)....

the most impressive season this year: LT2

brees is definitely on the list, especially if he surpasses marino's record. but LT is going to surpass holmes' record and has shown that he can play WR and QB. he's the media darling while brees is the sentimental favorite or cinderella story

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Romo for MVP? I love football fans.

 

[Eraser]

My top 5 picks for MVP are all named Ladanian Tomlinson.

 

[flranger]

If you had the first pick in a draft of 32 teams building from scratch, who would you select? (Manning)If you'd been in the same situation last year, who would you have taken? (Manning)The year before that? (Manning)And the year before that? (Manning)What about next year? (Manning)...and so on and so forth. He obviously doesn't have Jordan's rings or reputation at this juncture, and it's a different sport entirely, but Peyton Manning is the best football player in the NFL and has been/will be for some time barring injury.

How can your answer not be Tom Brady? If you're starting a team with one guy, would you rather have the guy who has led the league in TDs with a pair of rookie receivers and a couple older receivers all of whom missed several games, who led the league in passing yards with starting wideouts who have since done bupkus on their respective teams, and a guy who has willed his team to a 9-3 record and already has over 2500 yards and 20 TDs through 11 games despite his receivers tipping balls up in the air to opposing defenders game after game, who has an incredible regular season and playoff record and an incredible record in comebacks? Or the guy who looks good when he's surrounded by first rounders and possible hall of famers like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Tarik Glenn, Edgerrin James, and now Joseph Addai? Sure, Manning might be very successful without all those studs around him. But we KNOW that Brady can be successful throwing to castoffs that no quarterback in the league could win with. Seriously, forget the playoffs and the Superbowls and the clutch performances and everything else. Let's set aside all of Brady's accomplishments over the years. Just look at the fact that Brady is currently leading the #7 offense in the NFL (#8 scoring offense), while Manning has just one more TD and less than 40 more passing yards per game throwing to that ridiculous assortment of receivers.

Those guys are made studs because they play with Manning. How's Edge looking this year? What about Pollard when he left? It would be the same for the others, except for Harrison. Wayne is a nice WR, but without being paired with Manning he would be just a nice starter for some team.

 

[cr8f]

Brees doing what no QB has done since records were kept in the 70s is making me feel like he pulls just ahead of LT for consideration.LT was SUPPOSED to be awesome. Brees was returning from shoulder surgery, on a new team, that was supposed to be not so good, and yet he has set records and has done it with poise, and professionalism, and with size many said would stop him from being an elite NFL QB.Brees wins IMO.

Expectations are not part of MVP. It's most valuable player for the league.

 

[djcolts]

And as for this year - the two teams already played - in NE. And Manning was a lot better than Brady in that game. So, while I'm not saying there are no reasons the answer could be Brady, there are definitely many ways the answer could not be Brady.

That's a fair point. How many games would you say Manning has outperformed Brady when they've met head to head?

disagree their H2H meetings matter inthe MVP race. But, even so, the MVP is the MVP of the regular season, and I believe Manning's Colts versus Brady's Patriots in the regular season is a different story - much tighter games.Why don't those reg. season matchups occur in Indie more often? It is because the league knows Manning will struggle more up in NE.

That simply is the way the schedule is. It is possible that the in next 3 years the Pats would go to Indy if both continue to win their respective divisions.

 

[marinolives13]

1. LT - and it isn't closeBut you did ask for 52. Peyton, like every year. 3. Steve McNair. I know, not a favorite choice, but he's made a huge difference this year. Maybe not the best stats, but the leadership has made a huge difference.4. Steve Smith. Definetly won't win it, but the Panthers are a different team when he's around. 5. Urlacher

WHERE IS BREES? ARE YA KIDDIN ME!

 

[Bri]

seems clearly Brees and LT2 to me.

 

[bostonfred]

For the record, even though I would take Brady over Manning, Brady is not a viable MVP candidate this season, IMO. He has been too inconsistent at times.

I agree and said as much earlier in the thread. The digression came from Colin saying that he would take Manning 1.1 if the league started from scratch today, and would have done so every year since 2001. I don't think Manning is a terrible pick, I just think it's the wrong pick.

 

[bostonfred]

If you had the first pick in a draft of 32 teams building from scratch, who would you select? (Manning)If you'd been in the same situation last year, who would you have taken? (Manning)The year before that? (Manning)And the year before that? (Manning)What about next year? (Manning)...and so on and so forth. He obviously doesn't have Jordan's rings or reputation at this juncture, and it's a different sport entirely, but Peyton Manning is the best football player in the NFL and has been/will be for some time barring injury.

How can your answer not be Tom Brady? If you're starting a team with one guy, would you rather have the guy who has led the league in TDs with a pair of rookie receivers and a couple older receivers all of whom missed several games, who led the league in passing yards with starting wideouts who have since done bupkus on their respective teams, and a guy who has willed his team to a 9-3 record and already has over 2500 yards and 20 TDs through 11 games despite his receivers tipping balls up in the air to opposing defenders game after game, who has an incredible regular season and playoff record and an incredible record in comebacks? Or the guy who looks good when he's surrounded by first rounders and possible hall of famers like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Tarik Glenn, Edgerrin James, and now Joseph Addai? Sure, Manning might be very successful without all those studs around him. But we KNOW that Brady can be successful throwing to castoffs that no quarterback in the league could win with. Seriously, forget the playoffs and the Superbowls and the clutch performances and everything else. Let's set aside all of Brady's accomplishments over the years. Just look at the fact that Brady is currently leading the #7 offense in the NFL (#8 scoring offense), while Manning has just one more TD and less than 40 more passing yards per game throwing to that ridiculous assortment of receivers.

Those guys are made studs because they play with Manning. How's Edge looking this year? What about Pollard when he left? It would be the same for the others, except for Harrison. Wayne is a nice WR, but without being paired with Manning he would be just a nice starter for some team.

Pollard had more catches for more yards last year in Detroit than he averaged in Indy. This year, he turned 34 and they installed the Martz offense. Edgerrin is on pace for more receptions than he had with Indy last year, so in terms of the conversation about Manning's passing numbers, I guess he's done pretty well. The fact that he's not running well behind a terrible offensive line but with great receivers and a couple of good quarterbacks just goes to show how important the Indy line is to their success. I have no doubt that Wayne wouldn't be doing as well without Manning. Manning is a very good quarterback. But surely you'd agree that he's much more talented than any receiver on the Patriots offense.

 

[corpcow]

MVP Watch

5. Brian Urlacher, LB, Chicago. Among the "rateds,'' he's more under than over.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...eceivers/4.html

btw, if Miami somehow makes the playoffs due to their miraculous turnaround, dont you reward someone on that squad? The coach...Harrington... or maybe Zach Thomas, who is quietly outplaying Urlacher.

Jason Taylor?

 

[corpcow]

Edgerrin is on pace for more receptions than he had with Indy last year, so in terms of the conversation about Manning's passing numbers, I guess he's done pretty well. The fact that he's not running well behind a terrible offensive line but with great receivers and a couple of good quarterbacks just goes to show how important the Indy line is to their success.

I have no doubt that Wayne wouldn't be doing as well without Manning. Manning is a very good quarterback. But surely you'd agree that he's much more talented than any receiver on the Patriots offense.

 

[-OZ-]

Without LT, SD will still be a very good team. Without Brees, NO would be playing like Philly.

Prove it. (the LT part)I see what you're saying, and Brees should be on my top 5 list, but take LT off San Diego and they're at best tied with Denver and KC. And Rivers isn't playing as well.

You want me to hire some goons and take out LT's and Brees' knees?I tend to Favor QBs when judging value to a team.

I would never suggest such a thing My point was simply that #@%&$!? can say "without LT..." all he wants, but it's academic at best.

No player has been more dominant than LT this year.

McNair makes my list and Brees probably should have (I already said that), because they've been a major reason for their team's turnaround. Smith made my list ahead of Brees simply because we saw how bad Carolina was without him. He's the league's best WR and a dominant force.

I'll only list a few QBs when other players have shown themselves to be as valuable as Urlacher and Smith have.

 

[TinHat]

Even the year Mcnair tied Manning was absurd. .

They had the same Qb rating that year and that doesn't account for McNair's rushing numbers.plus a Young Edge > Eddie George and Harrison & co >>>> Derrick Mason and the cavalcade of scrubs

 

[Marc Levin]

For the record, even though I would take Brady over Manning, Brady is not a viable MVP candidate this season, IMO. He has been too inconsistent at times.

I agree and said as much earlier in the thread. The digression came from Colin saying that he would take Manning 1.1 if the league started from scratch today, and would have done so every year since 2001. I don't think Manning is a terrible pick, I just think it's the wrong pick.

THAT, I agree with - if you gave me the 1.1, it'd be Brady as my first pick (immediately after I hired Bill Belicheck for a blank check amount, of course).

 

[Bri]

Edgerrin is on pace for more receptions than he had with Indy last year,

Cards pass almost all of the second half, he should have even more than what he's got now. It's quite different than Indy IMO.

 

[bostonfred]

Edgerrin is on pace for more receptions than he had with Indy last year,

Cards pass almost all of the second half, he should have even more than what he's got now. It's quite different than Indy IMO.

The original comment was that his decline in Arizona showed that he wasn't as good as he was in Indy. The point is, he's doing as well in the passing game as he was in Indy, maybe even a little better. It's running the ball that's giving him trouble, which is another reason to think that the Colts offensive line - of course as well as the threat of Manning - is a lot better than the Cards. Shocking, I'm sure, but the reason we're talking about this is that the Colts have a stud offensive line anchored by a pro bowl, HOF WR1, pro bowl WR2, a 1st rounder at TE in Clark and had Pollard as well during his best year, and either Edge or now another first round RB who can run, catch and block. A couple people tried to say that Edge, Pollard or Wayne aren't all that special, but the point is that he's surrounded by so much talent that it's hard to say who is truly special out of the bunch. And that's why I can't put Manning up over Brady, who has done so much - even in terms of regular season statistics - with so much less.

 

[Marc Levin]

Edgerrin is on pace for more receptions than he had with Indy last year,

Cards pass almost all of the second half, he should have even more than what he's got now. It's quite different than Indy IMO.

The original comment was that his decline in Arizona showed that he wasn't as good as he was in Indy. The point is, he's doing as well in the passing game as he was in Indy, maybe even a little better. It's running the ball that's giving him trouble, which is another reason to think that the Colts offensive line - of course as well as the threat of Manning - is a lot better than the Cards. Shocking, I'm sure, but the reason we're talking about this is that the Colts have a stud offensive line anchored by a pro bowl, HOF WR1, pro bowl WR2, a 1st rounder at TE in Clark and had Pollard as well during his best year, and either Edge or now another first round RB who can run, catch and block. A couple people tried to say that Edge, Pollard or Wayne aren't all that special, but the point is that he's surrounded by so much talent that it's hard to say who is truly special out of the bunch. And that's why I can't put Manning up over Brady, who has done so much - even in terms of regular season statistics - with so much less.

Not that it really matters in this MVP discussion (talk about a hijack), but in his early years, Edge played behind CRAP at OL. To say Manning made Edge is a COMPLETE misrepresentation of his talent - 4 opr 5 years ago, Edge woul dbe running like a madman behind even the Cards' OL - his older and beaten body, OTOH, just can't do it without a decent OL in front of him.