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MVP (1 Viewer)

AL MVP is between Ellsbury and Grandy IMO. NL MVP is JUp IMO
It probably should be Pedroia again in the AL. Gold glove defense and incredible offense from a 2B.
Robinson Cano also displays GG defense and is an even better offensive player than Pedroia. Not sure how you can argue Pedroia over Cano.Cano has .20+ higher OPS, more doubles, HRs, RBIs, runs scored.
Not this again. Cano is below average defensively. In the last four years, he has been negative in UZR/150 every single year. Pedroia, on the other hand, has been pretty consistently awesome on defense.
UZR is the dumbest stat out there. Defensive metrics are completely unreliable. Plus UZR fluctuates from year to year. You cant tell me guys have great defensive years followed by bad defensive years off and on. Claiming Cano is below average defensively reeks of someone who has never watched the guy play and is insulting to baseball. Watch the games, hes clearly a plus defender. Whether hes a GGer or not Ill leave up to other people to debate. Does UZR take arm into account? No I dont think so. But then we'll hear how arm isnt important at 2B which is BS. Having a good arm helps on turning the DP. Also, Ive never seen any 2B go up the middle like him and flip the ball almost behind his back nonchalantly to 1B like he does. No other 2B can make that play
Due to the larger sample size needed, it is generally recommended that you use three seasons worth of data for UZR. It's not wrong, it just needs a lot of data. Fortunately, both Pedroia and Cano have been in the league long enough to get this sample. Cano has been negative UZR in every single three season sample. Pedroia has been well above average in every single three year sample.A lot of people have a very hard accepting that their eyes don't always show them what is true. We're all full of bias naturally and I'm guessing you're worse than most. It doesn't make you a bad person, just wrong.

 
AL MVP is between Ellsbury and Grandy IMO. NL MVP is JUp IMO
It probably should be Pedroia again in the AL. Gold glove defense and incredible offense from a 2B.
Robinson Cano also displays GG defense and is an even better offensive player than Pedroia. Not sure how you can argue Pedroia over Cano.Cano has .20+ higher OPS, more doubles, HRs, RBIs, runs scored.
Not this again. Cano is below average defensively. In the last four years, he has been negative in UZR/150 every single year. Pedroia, on the other hand, has been pretty consistently awesome on defense.
UZR is the dumbest stat out there. Defensive metrics are completely unreliable. Plus UZR fluctuates from year to year. You cant tell me guys have great defensive years followed by bad defensive years off and on. Claiming Cano is below average defensively reeks of someone who has never watched the guy play and is insulting to baseball. Watch the games, hes clearly a plus defender. Whether hes a GGer or not Ill leave up to other people to debate. Does UZR take arm into account? No I dont think so. But then we'll hear how arm isnt important at 2B which is BS. Having a good arm helps on turning the DP. Also, Ive never seen any 2B go up the middle like him and flip the ball almost behind his back nonchalantly to 1B like he does. No other 2B can make that play
Due to the larger sample size needed, it is generally recommended that you use three seasons worth of data for UZR. It's not wrong, it just needs a lot of data. Fortunately, both Pedroia and Cano have been in the league long enough to get this sample. Cano has been negative UZR in every single three season sample. Pedroia has been well above average in every single three year sample.A lot of people have a very hard accepting that their eyes don't always show them what is true. We're all full of bias naturally and I'm guessing you're worse than most. It doesn't make you a bad person, just wrong.
Again why are you only using UZR as your basis. I linked to two other defensive metrics that show Cano as a good defensive player. Why are they wrong and UZR right?
 
Sorry I cant believe a guy can go from worst defensive player to best in a matter of one year (for example, guys like Kelly Johnson).
I'm not sure why you have such a hard time considering that guys can have good and bad years in the field.
Pujols doesnt go from best hitter in baseball to worst hitter in baseball in back to back seasons. But some defensive metrics show huge fluctuations such as that. That makes absolutely no sense.
 
Sorry I cant believe a guy can go from worst defensive player to best in a matter of one year (for example, guys like Kelly Johnson).
I'm not sure why you have such a hard time considering that guys can have good and bad years in the field.
Pujols doesnt go from best hitter in baseball to worst hitter in baseball in back to back seasons. But some defensive metrics show huge fluctuations such as that. That makes absolutely no sense.
Curtis Granderson went from an average player last year to an MVP player this year. Jacoby Ellsbury went from a below average player last year to an MVP player this year. Joe Mauer went from being the most valuable player in baseball to being the most over paid. Alex Rios. Vernon Wells. Adam Dunn. Etc.........There are many examples of players going to either extreme on the offensive side of the field. Just because Albert Pujols hasn't done such a thing, doesnt make it untrue.
 
Robinson Cano turned in an August that was a near-match offensively for MVP candidate Curtis Granderson’s. But on the defensive side, Cano’s performance was unrivaled within the sport.

Yankee of the Month?

Cano vs Granderson

Cano Granderson

BA .345 .286

OPS 1.014 1.080

HR 7 10

RBI 29 29

GFP<< 23 4

>> GFP: Good Fielding Plays

It's easy to look at his .345 batting average and 29 RBI in 28 games and say Cano had a good month, one that may even put him on the fringe of the AL MVP discussion. Let's go one extra dimension and explain his defensive success.

Via the measurements of Baseball Info Solutions, which does video tracking of every major league game, Cano had seven Defensive Runs Saved, matching Kelly Johnson for the most by any second baseman in the major leagues.

Defensive Runs Saved factors in a players effectiveness at turning batted balls into outs and converting double plays in double play situations (runner on first base, less than two outs, play involves the player as either relay man or pivot man).

That’s a significant jump from a couple of months ago when Cano’s defense was not viewed as positively in this space.

Cano also tallied the highest marks in Baseball Info Solutions video review of Good Fielding Plays and Defensive Misplays. Their video tracking team categorizes plays into more than 30 categories of GFPs (good plays-- Web Gem-nominees) and 50 categories of DM&Es (plays that a player failed to make).

Most Good Fielding Plays

August 2011

Team

Robinson Cano Yankees 23

Albert Pujols Cardinals 22

Erick Aybar Angels 21

Ruben Tejada Mets 21

>> Tracked by Baseball Info Solutions

Examples of a GFP would be reaching into the stands to catch a foul ball, turning a double play pivot while being barreled into by an oncoming baserunner, or coming off the base to save a throwing error.

DM&Es include not just typical errors, but things such as falling down or slipping, cutting off a better-positioned fielder to prevent him from making a play, or throwing away the relay of a potential double play.

Cano was credited with 23 Good Fielding Plays, most of anyone in baseball, and 10 more than the next-most by a second baseman (Ben Zobrist of the Rays and Gordon Beckham of the White Sox). In fact, that was well more than the next-most in any month this season by a second baseman. Second-best was 16 by Cano and Nationals second baseman Danny Espinosa in June.

But that month, Cano had nine Defensive Misplays & Errors. This month, he had just four. It’s actually the second straight month that a Yankees player led the majors in GFPs. Mark Teixeira co-led with Blue Jays outfielder Adam Lind, posting 19 in July.

Cano wasn't just clutch at the plate. He was clutch in the field. One of the first of those 23 was key, with the Yankees and CC Sabathia clinging to a 3-2 lead over the White Sox at U.S. Cellular Field on August 1. Cano made a running, twisting catch of Alex Rios’ popup down the right field line to start the seventh inning. It was one of three GFPs that Cano was credited with in that game and set the tone for what was to come.

That one turned out to be big play, particularly when Sabathia escaped trouble later that inning, and the Yankees held on for the win. Even White Sox announcer Ken Harrelson was impressed:

“He just makes everything look easy,” Harrelson said on that night’s broadcast.

Both at the plate and in the field.
He's a Yankee. We only go by the stats that say he isn't doing good.
 
'shadyridr said:
'the moops said:
'shadyridr said:
Sorry I cant believe a guy can go from worst defensive player to best in a matter of one year (for example, guys like Kelly Johnson).
I'm not sure why you have such a hard time considering that guys can have good and bad years in the field.
Pujols doesnt go from best hitter in baseball to worst hitter in baseball in back to back seasons. But some defensive metrics show huge fluctuations such as that. That makes absolutely no sense.
You do realize you quoted an article that cited a monthly fluctuation in Cano's defense. So, you have no issue with a monthly fluctation, but you find a yearly fluctation beyond the pale.
 
If Granderson is the leading everyday candidate for the AL MVP, Verlander has a real shot. OK, he scores a lot and drives in a lot of runs, but that is more of a function of being on a great offensive team. He should end up with 40 plus HR's which is a very good number, but nothing that isn't done every year. He is a good glove in the outfield, but not a golden glove and he is hitting a uninspiring .271 average. We still have a month of regular season left and much can happen, but really Verlander is the MVP.

 
AL MVP should go to Bautista. Or if it must go to a player who's on a team that makes the playoffs (which is stupid), it should probably go to Ellsbury.

 
no one can quantify the difference, the nature of the competition is not the same.
If we're going quality of competition angle here, no one outside the AL East should ever win the AL MVP award again.
 
Verlander
You only have two choices for Verlander if you are a voter. He's #1 on your ballot, or you leave him off completely because he's a pitcher. Nothing else makes sense.
Havent the Tigers won 10 games in a row? Did Verlander pitch all those games? Is Miggy not valuable? Didnt they start winning all those games once they got Fisted? Verlander has been amazing no doubt. Not quite sure hes the MVP. Granderson has fallen off. Honestly not sure who the MVP is as of right now.
 
Verlander
You only have two choices for Verlander if you are a voter. He's #1 on your ballot, or you leave him off completely because he's a pitcher. Nothing else makes sense.
If they leave out Verlander on some mysterious principle, they had better not had a history of voting for any starting pitcher before. Like when Pedro got ripped off, one of the voters who completely left him off the ballot had voted starting pitchers MVP in prior years, so his rationalization was total BS.
 
Verlander
You only have two choices for Verlander if you are a voter. He's #1 on your ballot, or you leave him off completely because he's a pitcher. Nothing else makes sense.
If they leave out Verlander on some mysterious principle, they had better not had a history of voting for any starting pitcher before. Like when Pedro got ripped off, one of the voters who completely left him off the ballot had voted starting pitchers MVP in prior years, so his rationalization was total BS.
I don't think that the principle that the MVP shouldn't go to a player who only plays once every 5 days is all that mysterious.
 
Verlander
You only have two choices for Verlander if you are a voter. He's #1 on your ballot, or you leave him off completely because he's a pitcher. Nothing else makes sense.
If they leave out Verlander on some mysterious principle, they had better not had a history of voting for any starting pitcher before. Like when Pedro got ripped off, one of the voters who completely left him off the ballot had voted starting pitchers MVP in prior years, so his rationalization was total BS.
I don't think that the principle that the MVP shouldn't go to a player who only plays once every 5 days is all that mysterious.
In that one game they do 10 times the work.
 
Verlander
You only have two choices for Verlander if you are a voter. He's #1 on your ballot, or you leave him off completely because he's a pitcher. Nothing else makes sense.
If they leave out Verlander on some mysterious principle, they had better not had a history of voting for any starting pitcher before. Like when Pedro got ripped off, one of the voters who completely left him off the ballot had voted starting pitchers MVP in prior years, so his rationalization was total BS.
I don't think that the principle that the MVP shouldn't go to a player who only plays once every 5 days is all that mysterious.
In that one game they do 10 times the work.
Interesting. Can I see your work for that calculation?
 
Interesting. Can I see your work for that calculation?
Verlander throws 120 pitches a game. Each pitch has a huge impact and takes everything he has. A fielder might touch the ball a few times a game. He might extend himself on a couple plays. Most are routine. He will bat four times a game. So in a game, an everyday player has to exert himself maybe 6 or 7 times in a game where his performance will be critical. A pitcher doesn't rest 5 days between performances for fun, he has too for his health.
 
Verlander
You only have two choices for Verlander if you are a voter. He's #1 on your ballot, or you leave him off completely because he's a pitcher. Nothing else makes sense.
If they leave out Verlander on some mysterious principle, they had better not had a history of voting for any starting pitcher before. Like when Pedro got ripped off, one of the voters who completely left him off the ballot had voted starting pitchers MVP in prior years, so his rationalization was total BS.
I don't think that the principle that the MVP shouldn't go to a player who only plays once every 5 days is all that mysterious.
In that one game they do 10 times the work.
Interesting. Can I see your work for that calculation?
Did you offer any statistical evidence to suggest that a starting pitcher's once every five days performance is less than an everyday offensive player? You make a statement that is dismissive of the very idea of a pitcher winning the MVP and then ask someone else to back up their argument when they suggest otherwise. Lead the charge.And for the record, I'm a total Tigers homer and I would put Verlander at #2 to Bautista right now.

 

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