*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (7 Viewers)

[Short Corner]

Does the current NBA have a center in the top 10 all-time? Besides D. Howard does the current NBA have a center in the top 25 all-time?

Depends what you mean by "top ten all time." And I'm not sure why you're asking. If you went back in a time machine and rounded up the guys most people rank in their "NBA top ten centers of all time" when they were at their peak and tried to put them in today's NBA, everyone but Shaq and Hakeem would get their butts handed to them by the garbage time backup guys on the lottery teams.

The level of play in all sports improves over time, but probably none like the NBA. Forty years ago it was a niche sport played by a few hundred thousand American kids. Now it's a global game played by tens of millions of people around the world. When you draw from a talent pool thousands of times larger than it used to be, the elite talent is going to be correspondingly WAY better. And that's before we even get to advances in film study and technique and conditioning.

Kareem would do just fine in today's league. He might be the best offensive post player ever. I don't think garbage time backups would be able to handle guys like Wilt, Lanier, Gilmore, Walton (the one year he was healthy), Moses Malone and a bunch of other guys I can't be bothered to list.

Yeah I thought about Kareem. I think he'd get pushed around a lot. And as great as the sky hook was, I'd be curious how it would play in the modern era. He'd get doubled on the entry pass immediately so he wouldn't have nearly the room he got back them to pivot and toss that thing up. Admittedly I don't know much about his passing ability, but I know it wasn't tested in his era they way it would be now.

Also- and I know this is sacrilege, so I apologize in advance- was the sky hook really that efficient of a shot? Kareem was a 56% career shooter who never took a jump shot. I assume he got lots of near-100% looks as a center on offensive rebounds and the like. So what was the % on the sky hook? Maybe just under 50%? Is a sub-50% two point attempt that rarely draws a foul actually that good of a shot?

I know it's sacrilege. Don't flip out on me and post a bunch of quotes about the awesomeness of the skyhook. Guy was amazing, probably underrated if that's even possible. I just think it's interesting to think about.

The simple answer is, you just needed to see the man play, particularly when he was in his prime.

He may have been a bit wiry up top, but his legs were as strong as about anybody you'll see, even in today's NBA. You'd have to foul him to move him off the block once he got there.

While he's primarily remembered for the sky hook, he had all the shots and all the moves. He could go left or right with equal skill. He was a great passer - he got double and triple teamed constantly and burned people for it.

Was the sky hook efficient? I think so. I can count on one hand the number of times I saw it get blocked - and I watched a lot of Laker games. You had to stop it on the ground by being in position where he couldn't roll the direction he wanted to to shoot it, that was pretty much your only shot at stopping it. His shooting percentage was that high without as many layups/dunks as guys like Shaq and Howard have - he had game outside 5 feet from the rim.

If you think Pau Gasol is a skilled big man - Kareem was all that times about 10, and he could play some D too.

He didn't have all the moves and he definitely couldn't go left or right with equal skill.

You're kidding - right?

Not at all.

Oh, then you're just ignorant in this case. I can only assume you didn't get to see much of him.

Saw him all the time. The sky hook was a devastating shot and was pretty much unstoppable. But to say that he had all the moves and went to his left just as well as he went to his right is silly. For post players who had all the moves, the first names that come to mind are McHale and Hakeem.

 

[Gr00vus]

Does the current NBA have a center in the top 10 all-time? Besides D. Howard does the current NBA have a center in the top 25 all-time?

Depends what you mean by "top ten all time." And I'm not sure why you're asking. If you went back in a time machine and rounded up the guys most people rank in their "NBA top ten centers of all time" when they were at their peak and tried to put them in today's NBA, everyone but Shaq and Hakeem would get their butts handed to them by the garbage time backup guys on the lottery teams.

The level of play in all sports improves over time, but probably none like the NBA. Forty years ago it was a niche sport played by a few hundred thousand American kids. Now it's a global game played by tens of millions of people around the world. When you draw from a talent pool thousands of times larger than it used to be, the elite talent is going to be correspondingly WAY better. And that's before we even get to advances in film study and technique and conditioning.

Kareem would do just fine in today's league. He might be the best offensive post player ever. I don't think garbage time backups would be able to handle guys like Wilt, Lanier, Gilmore, Walton (the one year he was healthy), Moses Malone and a bunch of other guys I can't be bothered to list.

Yeah I thought about Kareem. I think he'd get pushed around a lot. And as great as the sky hook was, I'd be curious how it would play in the modern era. He'd get doubled on the entry pass immediately so he wouldn't have nearly the room he got back them to pivot and toss that thing up. Admittedly I don't know much about his passing ability, but I know it wasn't tested in his era they way it would be now.

Also- and I know this is sacrilege, so I apologize in advance- was the sky hook really that efficient of a shot? Kareem was a 56% career shooter who never took a jump shot. I assume he got lots of near-100% looks as a center on offensive rebounds and the like. So what was the % on the sky hook? Maybe just under 50%? Is a sub-50% two point attempt that rarely draws a foul actually that good of a shot?

I know it's sacrilege. Don't flip out on me and post a bunch of quotes about the awesomeness of the skyhook. Guy was amazing, probably underrated if that's even possible. I just think it's interesting to think about.

The simple answer is, you just needed to see the man play, particularly when he was in his prime.

He may have been a bit wiry up top, but his legs were as strong as about anybody you'll see, even in today's NBA. You'd have to foul him to move him off the block once he got there.

While he's primarily remembered for the sky hook, he had all the shots and all the moves. He could go left or right with equal skill. He was a great passer - he got double and triple teamed constantly and burned people for it.

Was the sky hook efficient? I think so. I can count on one hand the number of times I saw it get blocked - and I watched a lot of Laker games. You had to stop it on the ground by being in position where he couldn't roll the direction he wanted to to shoot it, that was pretty much your only shot at stopping it. His shooting percentage was that high without as many layups/dunks as guys like Shaq and Howard have - he had game outside 5 feet from the rim.

If you think Pau Gasol is a skilled big man - Kareem was all that times about 10, and he could play some D too.

He didn't have all the moves and he definitely couldn't go left or right with equal skill.

You're kidding - right?

Not at all.

Oh, then you're just ignorant in this case. I can only assume you didn't get to see much of him.

Saw him all the time. The sky hook was a devastating shot and was pretty much unstoppable. But to say that he had all the moves and went to his left just as well as he went to his right is silly. For post players who had all the moves, the first names that come to mind are McHale and Hakeem.

Those guys are great too - doesn't mean Kareem didn't have skill going left and didn't have all the moves - he did.

 

[Gr00vus]

Evidence. Kareem had a bit more on offense than just the sky hook - and he definitely was proficient going left. These are just some scoring highlights - they didn't include his passing here. I think the left handed finger roll around Cliff Ray might be my favorite there (4:04 mark).

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Old-time players really should be given extra credit for having to shoot at those low-def baskets.

 

[Gr00vus]

Here's some Wilt. Dunks start about 1/2 way through. Assists start about 3/4 of the way through.

 

[No. 16]

SA + 6.5 and OVER 191

 

[Short Corner]

Evidence. Kareem had a bit more on offense than just the sky hook - and he definitely was proficient going left. These are just some scoring highlights - they didn't include his passing here. I think the left handed finger roll around Cliff Ray might be my favorite there (4:04 mark).

He had maybe 3-4 finishes with his left hand. When he went right shoulder he was much more likely to take a jumper, which is much easier to defend, than a hook. No double drops. No up and unders. Speaks volumes as to how awesome that hook was and shows that you only really need two moves to be efficient in the post.

 

[Abraham]

SA + 6.5 and OVER 191

Agreed.

 

[Raider Nation]

Is it the general consensus that LeBron will have to put the team on his back and go for 40+ the next two games?

 

[Short Corner]

Evidence. Kareem had a bit more on offense than just the sky hook - and he definitely was proficient going left. These are just some scoring highlights - they didn't include his passing here. I think the left handed finger roll around Cliff Ray might be my favorite there (4:04 mark).

First vid I looked at that was linked from yours. Notice anything? Funny how Malone is always just sitting on his left shoulder and it's fake right-fake right-fake right-spin left-sky hook-good.

 

[Premier]

Is it the general consensus that LeBron will have to put the team on his back and go for 40+ the next two games?

I guess that's one way. More likely is Bosh and Wade hitting the jumpers that the Spurs are sagging off of. Probably need Chalmers and Kid n Play not to be an offensive drag too.

 

[Short Corner]

Is it the general consensus that LeBron will have to put the team on his back and go for 40+ the next two games?

Did he score 40 in the two games they won?

 

[Short Corner]

Is it the general consensus that LeBron will have to put the team on his back and go for 40+ the next two games?

I guess that's one way. More likely is Bosh and Wade hitting the jumpers that the Spurs are sagging off of. Probably need Chalmers and Kid n Play not to be an offensive drag too.

Chalmers shouldn't be shooting with less than 5 on the clock unless it's a lay up.

 

[HellToupee]

Does the current NBA have a center in the top 10 all-time? Besides D. Howard does the current NBA have a center in the top 25 all-time?

The level of play in all sports improves over time, but probably none like the NBA. Forty years ago it was a niche sport played by a few hundred thousand American kids. Now it's a global game played by tens of millions of people around the world. When you draw from a talent pool thousands of times larger than it used to be, the elite talent is going to be correspondingly WAY better. And that's before we even get to advances in film study and technique and conditioning.

Sorry but no way was the NBA a niche sport in the 70s. Some teams had financial problems but the 70s had no monopoly on bad management

 

[Raider Nation]

Is it the general consensus that LeBron will have to put the team on his back and go for 40+ the next two games?

Did he score 40 in the two games they won?

Slightly more pressure now.

 

[Premier]

Is it the general consensus that LeBron will have to put the team on his back and go for 40+ the next two games?

I guess that's one way. More likely is Bosh and Wade hitting the jumpers that the Spurs are sagging off of. Probably need Chalmers and Kid n Play not to be an offensive drag too.

Chalmers shouldn't be shooting with less than 5 on the clock unless it's a lay up.

He was 41% from 3 this year and has been wide open all series. If he was hitting those it's a different series.

 

[got_nugs]

Is it the general consensus that LeBron will have to put the team on his back and go for 40+ the next two games?

I guess that's one way. More likely is Bosh and Wade hitting the jumpers that the Spurs are sagging off of. Probably need Chalmers and Kid n Play not to be an offensive drag too.

Chalmers shouldn't be shooting with less than 5 on the clock unless it's a lay up.

He's decent at the wide open 3.

 

[Gr00vus]

Evidence. Kareem had a bit more on offense than just the sky hook - and he definitely was proficient going left. These are just some scoring highlights - they didn't include his passing here. I think the left handed finger roll around Cliff Ray might be my favorite there (4:04 mark).

First vid I looked at that was linked from yours. Notice anything? Funny how Malone is always just sitting on his left shoulder and it's fake right-fake right-fake right-spin left-sky hook-good.

Which video are you talking about, can you post the link?

 

[HellToupee]

Evidence. Kareem had a bit more on offense than just the sky hook - and he definitely was proficient going left. These are just some scoring highlights - they didn't include his passing here. I think the left handed finger roll around Cliff Ray might be my favorite there (4:04 mark).

First vid I looked at that was linked from yours. Notice anything? Funny how Malone is always just sitting on his left shoulder and it's fake right-fake right-fake right-spin left-sky hook-good.

Moses had to take the inside shoulder , he played it correctly he just couldn't stop Kareem. No shame there

 

[Spartans Rule]

Is it the general consensus that LeBron will have to put the team on his back and go for 40+ the next two games?

I guess that's one way. More likely is Bosh and Wade hitting the jumpers that the Spurs are sagging off of. Probably need Chalmers and Kid n Play not to be an offensive drag too.

LeBron can't just decide to take over the way the Spurs are playing him defensively. He needs his teammates to hit some perimeter shots on the offensive end, and then at the other end they need to get some steals and rebound well to create transition opportunities.

If they do those things, the game will open up a bit and then LeBron can go off.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Mr Crawford again tonight?

BACK UP THE TRUCK on the heat!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

 

[Raider Nation]

LeBron can't just decide to take over the way the Spurs are playing him defensively.

I need this broken down for me from those who watch it more closely.Even if LeBron gets doubled, can't he still put his head down like a bull in a china shop and head to the rim? Or is that just begging for charging calls?

 

[greenroom]

LeBron can't just decide to take over the way the Spurs are playing him defensively.

I need this broken down for me from those who watch it more closely.Even if LeBron gets doubled, can't he still put his head down like a bull in a china shop and head to the rim? Or is that just begging for charging calls?

But the Refs may swallow the whistle againt him.. Depending on Stern and what he wants to happen.

 

[HellToupee]

Mr Crawford again tonight?

BACK UP THE TRUCK on the heat!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

watch out, they came after Dickie for basically saying the same sentiment

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Mr Crawford again tonight?

BACK UP THE TRUCK on the heat!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

watch out, they came after Dickie for basically saying the same sentiment

He's just mad because the Red Wings won last night.

Or something.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

On pace for 144-144

 

[Mile High]

Is it the general consensus that LeBron will have to put the team on his back and go for 40+ the next two games?

I guess that's one way. More likely is Bosh and Wade hitting the jumpers that the Spurs are sagging off of. Probably need Chalmers and Kid n Play not to be an offensive drag too.

LeBron can't just decide to take over the way the Spurs are playing him defensively. He needs his teammates to hit some perimeter shots on the offensive end, and then at the other end they need to get some steals and rebound well to create transition opportunities.

If they do those things, the game will open up a bit and then LeBron can go off.

So it is a team game and not about just one player.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

In the least surprising development ever, Joey Crawford will be one of the officials for Game 6.

Things like this are why I stay away from the NBA.

Then stay away and whine about something else.

Will do. Me, and a lot of other people. Ratings are down across the board, even in San Antonio and Miami -- for a variety of reasons.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the inferiority complex of the American hockey fan.

Sorry Dickie, but taking a #### on the NBA for no reason isn't gonna change the fact that 99% of sports fans couldn't care less if your team wins the Stanley Cup.

Has nothing to do with hockey. I love college hoops and would like to follow the NBA like I did in the 1980s. The game today just has little to no appeal to me, and I am not alone.

I'll take the bait. So what is it about 80s basketball that was so great? The reign of Larry Bird? High scoring games?

The actual play on the basketball court the last few years has been great. Sure there are some crappy teams, but the game has been so fun to watch with the current rules placing an emphasis on 3 point shooting and ball movement to counter attack zone defenses.

so the game is better because of the zone?

WTF

Magic, Larry, Mike, the pistons, sir Charles? The late 80s was the best for the NBA and it wont ever be topped.

Geez

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if the Spurs stay at 71% this will be the last game.

 

[got_nugs]

Battier 1-1 from 3

 

[sporthenry]

Is it the general consensus that LeBron will have to put the team on his back and go for 40+ the next two games?

I guess that's one way. More likely is Bosh and Wade hitting the jumpers that the Spurs are sagging off of. Probably need Chalmers and Kid n Play not to be an offensive drag too.

Chalmers shouldn't be shooting with less than 5 on the clock unless it's a lay up.

 

[Mentos]

I was watching the Mets game.

I need first quarter flop totals pronto.

 

[Mentos]

Mr Crawford again tonight?

BACK UP THE TRUCK on the heat!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

watch out, they came after Dickie for basically saying the same sentiment

He's just mad because the Red Wings won last night.

Or something.

What are the Red Wings?

 

[Raider Nation]

Has Timmy indicated how much longer he intends to keep playing? He still looks good to me.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

What is the over under on automobiles set on fire tonight in San Antonio if they win tonight?

Oops sorry that only happens in Miami. Hehehelolhehelol

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

I think Popovich is played by Ron Jeremy if they ever make a movie about the Spurs.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I think Popovich is played by Ron Jeremy if they ever make a movie about the Spurs.

Jeremy will always be Stan Van

 

[Mentos]

I think Popovich is played by Ron Jeremy if they ever make a movie about the Spurs.

Only if it is a porno which it wouldn't be. Nick Nolte would be considered.

 

[Premier]

This has a chance to be an amazing 4th quarter.

 

[Raider Nation]

I think Popovich is played by Ron Jeremy if they ever make a movie about the Spurs.

Jeremy will always be Stan Van

Pop

 

[Britney Spears]

Tough to decide who is a bigger embarrassment on offense between Splitter and Bosh.

 

[sporthenry]

This has a chance to be an amazing 4th quarter.

They said that about every game.

 

[ShaHBucks]

My MVP would be Danny. But Kawhi is pretty close to being as valuable in this series.

 

[Popinski]

I think Popovich is played by Ron Jeremy if they ever make a movie about the Spurs.

Jeremy will always be Stan Van

Pop

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxaidjrHOe1qk4a0ho1_500.jpg

 

[sporthenry]

My MVP would be Danny. But Kawhi is pretty close to being as valuable in this series.

Want a mulligan?

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Starting to think we aren't going to get the 40-point takeover game by James

 

[sporthenry]

This really has to be one of the best played finals in recent memory. As they mentioned, not a ton of fouling so not a ton of free throws. Both teams play very good defense and they both run fairly aesthetic offenses with good 3 point shooting.

And to boot, just mentioned no techs as neither team talks a ton after the whistle.

 

[Mentos]

Atchison possible torn groin

 

[Spin]

This really has to be one of the best played finals in recent memory. As they mentioned, not a ton of fouling so not a ton of free throws. Both teams play very good defense and they both run fairly aesthetic offenses with good 3 point shooting.

And to boot, just mentioned no techs as neither team talks a ton after the whistle.

As a general basketball fan, I've thoroughly enjoyed this finals. Regardless if it ends tonight, each game has been entertaining, but I do hope for a game 7.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Atchison possible torn groin

Who?