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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Cliff Clavin
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Abraham
Footballguy
I know that was supposed to be a video about Jennings being an idiot, but I was having a hard time focusing after watching Charlie V make a shot. When was the last time that happened?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
There's so much to love about that clip. Villanueva playing the hero with the bizarre shot selection in a tie game is pretty good. I also like that Jennings did that against the Pistons. Which means pretty much everyone in their organization saw him do that live and then several more times on replays, and then not six months later decided that's the guy they want running their offense,
Kev4029
Footballguy
You really don't see the difference between some 30 year old PGs that have peaked and are on the backside of their career and Jennings?For both. The Bucks are pretty self explanatory. Detroit has a whole whack of low percentage outside scorers (save for Billups but who knows what he has left in the tank) and bigs who do not compliment each other whatsoever. I've posted my thoughts on Jennings and think that his deal is pretty damn big overpay (saying that, I don't know what an average starting PG is making right now). I get that he is young and may improve be he hasn't shown any improvement since he has come into the league. By year 5, he probably is what he is. He certainly isn't going to be the star that he was touted as. Looks like he is going to settle in as, at best, a middle tier PG. He is comparable to guys like Felton, Harris and Nelson yet he is viewed as someone much better because he'll drop a Jeremy Lin© every once in a while.I'm not sure if that is referring to Detroit or Milwaukee, but I think this is a pretty good deal for the Pistons. Jennings is signing a 3/25 deal which a little overpaid but not especially so for a 23 year old that could still improve. The Pistons now have a real PG instead of running out a shooting guard at point guard.
I don't like this deal as much for the Bucks though.
I don't think they're gaining much by adding a "real" PG in Jennings. He's a shoot first guy and the offences he's been a part of in Milwakuee have been pretty terrible; bottom half of the league in each of his seasons (dead last once). No, it isn't all his fault, but as the starting PG, a fair bit of that falls on his shoulders IMO. His AST% and AST ratio are near the bottom of all PGs. The Pistons were going to have a hard time scoring before adding him and I don't think that is going to change much. I think they'll be a bottom 10 team on offence and at best a slightly below average team on D.
Here are the other <25 year old starting PGs, other than Irving (clearly better than all the guys linked) and Walker (who I didn't have room for).
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I would say that John Wall would like a word with you, but you probably won't have time for him after Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose finish up their chats.You really don't see the difference between some 30 year old PGs that have peaked and are on the backside of their career and Jennings?For both. The Bucks are pretty self explanatory. Detroit has a whole whack of low percentage outside scorers (save for Billups but who knows what he has left in the tank) and bigs who do not compliment each other whatsoever. I've posted my thoughts on Jennings and think that his deal is pretty damn big overpay (saying that, I don't know what an average starting PG is making right now). I get that he is young and may improve be he hasn't shown any improvement since he has come into the league. By year 5, he probably is what he is. He certainly isn't going to be the star that he was touted as. Looks like he is going to settle in as, at best, a middle tier PG. He is comparable to guys like Felton, Harris and Nelson yet he is viewed as someone much better because he'll drop a Jeremy Lin© every once in a while.I'm not sure if that is referring to Detroit or Milwaukee, but I think this is a pretty good deal for the Pistons. Jennings is signing a 3/25 deal which a little overpaid but not especially so for a 23 year old that could still improve. The Pistons now have a real PG instead of running out a shooting guard at point guard.
I don't like this deal as much for the Bucks though.
I don't think they're gaining much by adding a "real" PG in Jennings. He's a shoot first guy and the offences he's been a part of in Milwakuee have been pretty terrible; bottom half of the league in each of his seasons (dead last once). No, it isn't all his fault, but as the starting PG, a fair bit of that falls on his shoulders IMO. His AST% and AST ratio are near the bottom of all PGs. The Pistons were going to have a hard time scoring before adding him and I don't think that is going to change much. I think they'll be a bottom 10 team on offence and at best a slightly below average team on D.
Here are the other <25 year old starting PGs, other than Irving (clearly better than all the guys linked) and Walker (who I didn't have room for).
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Of course I do. Detroit is paying a premium in hopes that Jennings evolves as a player, which again, is something that hasn't happened in his first 4 seasons. I may be wrong, but players who do not improve during their first 4 seasons don't typically make gains after that.You really don't see the difference between some 30 year old PGs that have peaked and are on the backside of their career and Jennings?For both. The Bucks are pretty self explanatory. Detroit has a whole whack of low percentage outside scorers (save for Billups but who knows what he has left in the tank) and bigs who do not compliment each other whatsoever. I've posted my thoughts on Jennings and think that his deal is pretty damn big overpay (saying that, I don't know what an average starting PG is making right now). I get that he is young and may improve be he hasn't shown any improvement since he has come into the league. By year 5, he probably is what he is. He certainly isn't going to be the star that he was touted as. Looks like he is going to settle in as, at best, a middle tier PG. He is comparable to guys like Felton, Harris and Nelson yet he is viewed as someone much better because he'll drop a Jeremy Lin© every once in a while.I'm not sure if that is referring to Detroit or Milwaukee, but I think this is a pretty good deal for the Pistons. Jennings is signing a 3/25 deal which a little overpaid but not especially so for a 23 year old that could still improve. The Pistons now have a real PG instead of running out a shooting guard at point guard.
I don't like this deal as much for the Bucks though.
I don't think they're gaining much by adding a "real" PG in Jennings. He's a shoot first guy and the offences he's been a part of in Milwakuee have been pretty terrible; bottom half of the league in each of his seasons (dead last once). No, it isn't all his fault, but as the starting PG, a fair bit of that falls on his shoulders IMO. His AST% and AST ratio are near the bottom of all PGs. The Pistons were going to have a hard time scoring before adding him and I don't think that is going to change much. I think they'll be a bottom 10 team on offence and at best a slightly below average team on D.
Here are the other <25 year old starting PGs, other than Irving (clearly better than all the guys linked) and Walker (who I didn't have room for).
Kev4029
Footballguy
I should have said some other, not the other. Jennings is much more in the class of the guys I linked. I don't think there would be a discussion if he is comparable to Westbrook, Rose, Wall and Irving, each of whom are either in a contract that is 3x as large as Jennings contract or soon will be.I would say that John Wall would like a word with you, but you probably won't have time for him after Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose finish up their chats.You really don't see the difference between some 30 year old PGs that have peaked and are on the backside of their career and Jennings?For both. The Bucks are pretty self explanatory. Detroit has a whole whack of low percentage outside scorers (save for Billups but who knows what he has left in the tank) and bigs who do not compliment each other whatsoever. I've posted my thoughts on Jennings and think that his deal is pretty damn big overpay (saying that, I don't know what an average starting PG is making right now). I get that he is young and may improve be he hasn't shown any improvement since he has come into the league. By year 5, he probably is what he is. He certainly isn't going to be the star that he was touted as. Looks like he is going to settle in as, at best, a middle tier PG. He is comparable to guys like Felton, Harris and Nelson yet he is viewed as someone much better because he'll drop a Jeremy Lin© every once in a while.I'm not sure if that is referring to Detroit or Milwaukee, but I think this is a pretty good deal for the Pistons. Jennings is signing a 3/25 deal which a little overpaid but not especially so for a 23 year old that could still improve. The Pistons now have a real PG instead of running out a shooting guard at point guard.
I don't like this deal as much for the Bucks though.
I don't think they're gaining much by adding a "real" PG in Jennings. He's a shoot first guy and the offences he's been a part of in Milwakuee have been pretty terrible; bottom half of the league in each of his seasons (dead last once). No, it isn't all his fault, but as the starting PG, a fair bit of that falls on his shoulders IMO. His AST% and AST ratio are near the bottom of all PGs. The Pistons were going to have a hard time scoring before adding him and I don't think that is going to change much. I think they'll be a bottom 10 team on offence and at best a slightly below average team on D.
Here are the other <25 year old starting PGs, other than Irving (clearly better than all the guys linked) and Walker (who I didn't have room for).
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
OK, I see where you were going. Plus the fact that you just mentioned Wall in the same sentence as those other three guys means you have a special place in my heart.
Kev4029
Footballguy
A premium of $8.3m a year... we already mentioned what Nelson is getting, that's also similar money to Lin ($8.3/yr), Dragic ($7.5m/yr), Calderon ($7.3m/yr), Ellis ($8.3m/yr), Hill ($8m/yr). Jennings got the going rate for a mediocre starting PG, so even if he doesn't improve they got him for maybe a bit above market value, if he does take any steps forward, they got a decent deal.Of course I do. Detroit is paying a premium in hopes that Jennings evolves as a player, which again, is something that hasn't happened in his first 4 seasons. I may be wrong, but players who do not improve during their first 4 seasons don't typically make gains after that.You really don't see the difference between some 30 year old PGs that have peaked and are on the backside of their career and Jennings?For both. The Bucks are pretty self explanatory. Detroit has a whole whack of low percentage outside scorers (save for Billups but who knows what he has left in the tank) and bigs who do not compliment each other whatsoever. I've posted my thoughts on Jennings and think that his deal is pretty damn big overpay (saying that, I don't know what an average starting PG is making right now). I get that he is young and may improve be he hasn't shown any improvement since he has come into the league. By year 5, he probably is what he is. He certainly isn't going to be the star that he was touted as. Looks like he is going to settle in as, at best, a middle tier PG. He is comparable to guys like Felton, Harris and Nelson yet he is viewed as someone much better because he'll drop a Jeremy Lin© every once in a while.I'm not sure if that is referring to Detroit or Milwaukee, but I think this is a pretty good deal for the Pistons. Jennings is signing a 3/25 deal which a little overpaid but not especially so for a 23 year old that could still improve. The Pistons now have a real PG instead of running out a shooting guard at point guard.
I don't like this deal as much for the Bucks though.
I don't think they're gaining much by adding a "real" PG in Jennings. He's a shoot first guy and the offences he's been a part of in Milwakuee have been pretty terrible; bottom half of the league in each of his seasons (dead last once). No, it isn't all his fault, but as the starting PG, a fair bit of that falls on his shoulders IMO. His AST% and AST ratio are near the bottom of all PGs. The Pistons were going to have a hard time scoring before adding him and I don't think that is going to change much. I think they'll be a bottom 10 team on offence and at best a slightly below average team on D.
Here are the other <25 year old starting PGs, other than Irving (clearly better than all the guys linked) and Walker (who I didn't have room for).
Abraham
Footballguy
Is 6-8 million a year for a young starting point guard really that offensive ? It's too much for a guy like Jameer Because we know he isn't getting any better. And I realize most guys don't make big leaps after their first four years. But they can get a little better over time if only to emerge as steady, adequate players. The Pistons aren't going to win the title in the next three years. Guess what? 85% of the teams in the league have no chance either. Jennings, Smith, Drummond, Monroe...there's a little talent there. They could win some games, sell some tickets, maybe steal a game at home in the playoffs.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Like I said, I didn't know the average for a PG off hand. Seems like they are paying the average for a below average guy. Not that big of an overpay for only 3 years I guess. Of all the guys you listed, I'd probably only take Jennings over Lin. Lots of PGs out there that can give you what Jennings does so I just don't see the benefit in giving him $8M a year when you can get a similar guy like Harris, Jack, Bayless, Douglas, Robinson, etc. for cheaper.A premium of $8.3m a year... we already mentioned what Nelson is getting, that's also similar money to Lin ($8.3/yr), Dragic ($7.5m/yr), Calderon ($7.3m/yr), Ellis ($8.3m/yr), Hill ($8m/yr). Jennings got the going rate for a mediocre starting PG, so even if he doesn't improve they got him for maybe a bit above market value, if he does take any steps forward, they got a decent deal.Of course I do. Detroit is paying a premium in hopes that Jennings evolves as a player, which again, is something that hasn't happened in his first 4 seasons. I may be wrong, but players who do not improve during their first 4 seasons don't typically make gains after that.You really don't see the difference between some 30 year old PGs that have peaked and are on the backside of their career and Jennings?For both. The Bucks are pretty self explanatory. Detroit has a whole whack of low percentage outside scorers (save for Billups but who knows what he has left in the tank) and bigs who do not compliment each other whatsoever. I've posted my thoughts on Jennings and think that his deal is pretty damn big overpay (saying that, I don't know what an average starting PG is making right now). I get that he is young and may improve be he hasn't shown any improvement since he has come into the league. By year 5, he probably is what he is. He certainly isn't going to be the star that he was touted as. Looks like he is going to settle in as, at best, a middle tier PG. He is comparable to guys like Felton, Harris and Nelson yet he is viewed as someone much better because he'll drop a Jeremy Lin© every once in a while.I'm not sure if that is referring to Detroit or Milwaukee, but I think this is a pretty good deal for the Pistons. Jennings is signing a 3/25 deal which a little overpaid but not especially so for a 23 year old that could still improve. The Pistons now have a real PG instead of running out a shooting guard at point guard.
I don't like this deal as much for the Bucks though.
I don't think they're gaining much by adding a "real" PG in Jennings. He's a shoot first guy and the offences he's been a part of in Milwakuee have been pretty terrible; bottom half of the league in each of his seasons (dead last once). No, it isn't all his fault, but as the starting PG, a fair bit of that falls on his shoulders IMO. His AST% and AST ratio are near the bottom of all PGs. The Pistons were going to have a hard time scoring before adding him and I don't think that is going to change much. I think they'll be a bottom 10 team on offence and at best a slightly below average team on D.
Here are the other <25 year old starting PGs, other than Irving (clearly better than all the guys linked) and Walker (who I didn't have room for).
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Find a guy who made any real improvements after playing 34mpg in 300 career games. It isn't like he was on the bench and not playing. He might be able to pull himself up to being an average PG.
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Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
uke:
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I see they are going with the terrible Cleveland Cavalier color scheme.
Moe.
Footballguy
I dunno, the East has a pretty solid top four, then you have the Knicks to contend with as well. I don't think 5/6 is out of reach but I will be pretty shocked if they are close to the Pacers, Bulls, Heat, or Nets.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
It's like they went into a 4th-grade class in New Orleans and had a "Design the Pelicans uniforms" contest.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I feel like 4th graders would put more than just New Orleans on both the home and away uni.
Abraham
Footballguy
Bobcat10
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Referring to the LeBron era color scheme. Blue, red, dark gold, and completely forgettable.
Oddly, the same uni's bleacher report just called CLE's best ever (the blue LeBron alternate).
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1723332-ranking-the-best-jersey-designs-in-cleveland-cavaliers-history/page/11
Another reason bleacher report is horrible.
Not the red and yellow "CAVS" that they are going with these days though. Those things are pretty sweet.
I should also note that I think the dark blue and gold scheme is generally awful. Maybe it's bitterness over the Brewer debacle, but dark blue and gold signifies a team trying to get a fake, classic look out of a new uniform. You aren't fooling anyone.
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Bobcat10
Footballguy
Ah yes, agree. I couldn't stand those blue alternates, especially when they wore them in the playoffs (quite a bit iirc). Didn't mind those old maroons though. The wine and golds are definitely better. Average fans these days probably don't even know they wore wine and gold for years in the '70s/early '80s.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That is forgettable. What a missed opportunity.Raider Nation said:Pelicans uniforms unveiled
That is forgettable. What a missed opportunity.
Can you feel the excitement?
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Apparently today is D-Day for Greg Oden. Prediction? I say Miami.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I think its the best fit for him, so I agree. I'm guessing a one year minimum deal with a player option for the following season. If he can prove to be anywhere near as effective as he was early in his career for 15 mpg this season, he could sign somewhere next offseason for close to the midlevel, and I think Miami gives him the best opportunity to showcase anything he has left.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Kentucky.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Whoever pays the most.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Miami is the best place for him.
If he feels healthy, best spot to get paid more over the long run. If he still questions his ability and health, I could see him going for the multi-year deal being offered by a non-contender like New Orleans/Atlanta/Dallas.
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Timmay
Footballguy
Joe Summer
Footballguy
I get the feeling that teams like Miami and San Antonio will play hardball on Oden's contract, while New Orleans would gladly offer a large guarantee.
Therefore, if Oden is just looking for money, he will sign with New Orleans.
But the best move for him (both professionally and personally) will be Miami.
Therefore, if Oden is just looking for money, he will sign with New Orleans.
But the best move for him (both professionally and personally) will be Miami.
Abraham
Footballguy
Maybe. But he has made some money already. If he's smart he'll go somewhere where 15 mpg is a good run for this year, the team has an excellent medical staff, and he has a chance to be a FA sooner rather than later.
He was looking at Sacramento too. Why he is even considering any of these lottery teams is puzzling.
Abraham
Footballguy
Sacramento is puzzling, but New Orleans isn't . That team should be better than last year. If they offered 50% more money....if they offered a better medical staff...I think those things factor in. That said, I'll be surprised if he doesn't sign with Miami.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Except his body's not made for pro basketball.
For Oden, taking everything he can get now makes the most financial sense. A big contract later will almost certainly never happen.
He'll be a FA soon no matter where he signs because nobody's dumb enough to sign him long term.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
A fringe playoff team is probably worst case scenario for him because they'll be tempted to push him harder. A really bad or really good team can ease him in.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Oden to Miami.
At 50% he's better than Joel Anthony. Love the signing. Hope it works out for him. Best place for him to revive his career IMO.
At 50% he's better than Joel Anthony. Love the signing. Hope it works out for him. Best place for him to revive his career IMO.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
oden looks like a 50 year old man
Greg Oden's Knee
Footballguy
Takin' my knee pads to South Beach. 
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
I hope Oden can salvage a 5-6 year career out of this. I think that would be pretty cool.
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Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
I think he made the right choice. If he shows he has anything left and can play most of the games this season, he'll decline his player option and either resign with the Heat for their midlevel or biannual or he'll head elsewhere to make a little more money. If his knees are as bad as they should be after three micro fracture surgeries, he'll have a front row seat to watch the Heat win another championship or two with $2M in the bank.
Kev4029
Footballguy
He seems ridiculously likeable and has had awful luck, so I think most NBA fans will be pulling for him even if they don't like Lebron and the Heat.
Abraham
Footballguy
Titus article was well done. I think Miami is a great place for him to go with almost no expectations. It will be an accomplishment if he can turn in to. 15mpg center without breaking down for three or four years. Anywhere else and the expectations would have been higher.
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