*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (7 Viewers)

[Gr00vus]

Oh yeah, it's on the coach. Brooks greatest success on the court came from watching his teammates pass the ball to Hakeem and then get out of the way. The only other part of the Houston offense was the "wide open three when Dream is triple-teamed." So its not THAT surprising that he wants to go isolation with his 2.5 potent scorers. But, like Houston back in the 90's, that doesn't bode well for when the team needs a bucket at the end of the shot clock or end of the quarter.

Not apologizing for Brooks' all around offensive gameplan, but I strongly disagree with the idea that Iso's are bad offense at the end of shot clocks and halves.

Iso's are bad offense, always. Unless you have Michael Jordan and a bunch of clowns.

Crazy talk. Was it bad offense when Carisle ISO'd Dirk against the Lakers out front when he saw Pau Gasol was guarding Dirk? The NBA, more than any other sport, is about matchups. Taking advantage of mismatches is fundamental. Isolating a mismatch is one of the easiest ways to create scoring opportunities.

It's worse than running an actual play which could result in a higher percentage, uncontested shot (possibly for Dirk even), keeps all your players involved, active and not stagnant. So yes, it's bad offense.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Oh yeah, it's on the coach. Brooks greatest success on the court came from watching his teammates pass the ball to Hakeem and then get out of the way. The only other part of the Houston offense was the "wide open three when Dream is triple-teamed." So its not THAT surprising that he wants to go isolation with his 2.5 potent scorers. But, like Houston back in the 90's, that doesn't bode well for when the team needs a bucket at the end of the shot clock or end of the quarter.

Not apologizing for Brooks' all around offensive gameplan, but I strongly disagree with the idea that Iso's are bad offense at the end of shot clocks and halves.

Iso's are bad offense, always. Unless you have Michael Jordan and a bunch of clowns.

Crazy talk. Was it bad offense when Carisle ISO'd Dirk against the Lakers out front when he saw Pau Gasol was guarding Dirk? The NBA, more than any other sport, is about matchups. Taking advantage of mismatches is fundamental. Isolating a mismatch is one of the easiest ways to create scoring opportunities.

It's worse than running an actual play which could result in a higher percentage, uncontested shot (possibly for Dirk even), keeps all your players involved, active and not stagnant. So yes, it's bad offense.

Are you constantly blown away when ISO's are run at the end of games over and over and over again by most teams at all levels of basketball? I certainly understand where you're coming from - I'm a fan of motion offenses in general and I'm a firm believer that lack of ball movement and leads to stagnant players and less effective offense overall. But in 1 possession, do-or-die situations in which the defense is set, just running the regular offense rarely works because the defense is at such an advantage.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I can't tell the real Heat fans from the "real Heat fans" shtick.

I've been a Heat fan going back all the way to April.

That is longer than 75% of all Heat fans.

Says the Lakers and Vikings fan from what, north Carolina?

Big game tonight, you nervous?

Not really.What are your favorite baseball and hockey teams?

 

[Gr00vus]

Are you constantly blown away when ISO's are run at the end of games over and over and over again by most teams at all levels of basketball? I certainly understand where you're coming from - I'm a fan of motion offenses in general and I'm a firm believer that lack of ball movement and leads to stagnant players and less effective offense overall. But in 1 possession, do-or-die situations in which the defense is set, just running the regular offense rarely works because the defense is at such an advantage.

How often do those Isos work out Tommy? Not very often. You usually end up with an off balance, contested jumper from distance - that's a fail regardless of who is taking the shot. The defense is at an advantage because they basically only have to cover 1 guy. You're putting zero pressure on them. It's stupid. It's a sop to the biggest ego on the team. Obviously if you've only got 3 seconds to work with your options are limited, but when you have a near full 24 and you run an iso you're doing the other team a favor. Bad offense.

 

[JMon348]

I can't tell the real Heat fans from the "real Heat fans" shtick.

I've been a Heat fan going back all the way to April.

That is longer than 75% of all Heat fans.

Says the Lakers and Vikings fan from what, north Carolina?

Big game tonight, you nervous?

Not really.What are your favorite baseball and hockey teams?

SF Giants and Chicago Blackhawks

 

[TobiasFunke]

Are you constantly blown away when ISO's are run at the end of games over and over and over again by most teams at all levels of basketball? I certainly understand where you're coming from - I'm a fan of motion offenses in general and I'm a firm believer that lack of ball movement and leads to stagnant players and less effective offense overall. But in 1 possession, do-or-die situations in which the defense is set, just running the regular offense rarely works because the defense is at such an advantage.

How often do those Isos work out Tommy? Not very often. You usually end up with an off balance, contested jumper from distance - that's a fail regardless of who is taking the shot. The defense is at an advantage because they basically only have to cover 1 guy. You're putting zero pressure on them. It's stupid. It's a sop to the biggest ego on the team. Obviously if you've only got 3 seconds to work with your options are limited, but when you have a near full 24 and you run an iso you're doing the other team a favor. Bad offense.

I've made this argument consistently for a while now. There's a lot of factors at work in the final minute that make it difficult to compare apples to apples, but to me the strongest evidence that the Groovus position here is the correct one is the fact that when Hollinger did that article:(1) the best offense in the league in the final minute was the one with the best pass-first point guard, Chris Paul, and (2) unlike what I assume is pretty much every other team in the league (Hollinger didn't include all the data for all the teams) they were actually as good or better in the final minute as they were throughout the game, meaning that other "factors" like increased defensive intensity or fatigue or whatever really weren't factors at all.I'm open to another argument, but to my mind, if you want to argue that running final possessions through stars and/or running ISOs is the best way to play down the stretch, you have to address that point. Why is the best team down the stretch also the one that's the most unpredictable?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I can't tell the real Heat fans from the "real Heat fans" shtick.

I've been a Heat fan going back all the way to April.

That is longer than 75% of all Heat fans.

Says the Lakers and Vikings fan from what, north Carolina?

Big game tonight, you nervous?

Not really.What are your favorite baseball and hockey teams?

SF Giants and Chicago Blackhawks

You're not being serious, right?I've liked the Heat since the days of Mashburn, but I'd never say I am their "fan." Wade is my favorite player currently and I think Lebron is by far the best overall player in the league right now. I root for them, but its not an intense thing at all. I like to watch fun basketball and see the best players/athletes do their thing. Watching LeBron is sick right now, as is Dirk.I care about the Steelers, Pirates, and Penguins much more (and in that order) and if Pittsburgh had a basketball team starting next year, they would be my squad. I'd still root for the Heat and just about anybody else though to beat the Lakers so long as Kobe is on that team and you handful of guys here continue to slobber over him disproportionately, blindly, and disturbingly obsessively.

 

[Instinctive]

My argument would be that New Orleans DID run their offense through their star on isolation plays. It just so happens that his brand of playmaking (which he is easily, far and away the best at) involves creating a wide open shot for somebody else.

On a side note, Dallas is actually similar to this in that Dirk is a great pass-out-of-er when he gets doubled on an iso (or any) play. One swing after that and Terry or Peja of Kidd ends up very open a lot. LeBron did this in Cleveland with, iirc, Daniel Gibson for three in the corner against Detroit?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Are you constantly blown away when ISO's are run at the end of games over and over and over again by most teams at all levels of basketball?

I certainly understand where you're coming from - I'm a fan of motion offenses in general and I'm a firm believer that lack of ball movement and leads to stagnant players and less effective offense overall. But in 1 possession, do-or-die situations in which the defense is set, just running the regular offense rarely works because the defense is at such an advantage.

How often do those Isos work out Tommy? Not very often. You usually end up with an off balance, contested jumper from distance - that's a fail regardless of who is taking the shot. The defense is at an advantage because they basically only have to cover 1 guy. You're putting zero pressure on them. It's stupid. It's a sop to the biggest ego on the team. Obviously if you've only got 3 seconds to work with your options are limited, but when you have a near full 24 and you run an iso you're doing the other team a favor. Bad offense.

I've made this argument consistently for a while now. There's a lot of factors at work in the final minute that make it difficult to compare apples to apples, but to me the strongest evidence that the Groovus position here is the correct one is the fact that when Hollinger did that article:

(1) the best offense in the league in the final minute was the one with the best pass-first point guard, Chris Paul, and

(2) unlike what I assume is pretty much every other team in the league (Hollinger didn't include all the data for all the teams) they were actually as good or better in the final minute as they were throughout the game, meaning that other "factors" like increased defensive intensity or fatigue or whatever really weren't factors at all.

I'm open to another argument, but to my mind, if you want to argue that running final possessions through stars and/or running ISOs is the best way to play down the stretch, you have to address that point. Why is the best team down the stretch also the one that's the most unpredictable?

It's not a coincidence that that PG happens to be the best PG in the world right now, and probably one of the 2-3 best PGs of all time.

 

[TobiasFunke]

My argument would be that New Orleans DID run their offense through their star on isolation plays. It just so happens that his brand of playmaking (which he is easily, far and away the best at) involves creating a wide open shot for somebody else. On a side note, Dallas is actually similar to this in that Dirk is a great pass-out-of-er when he gets doubled on an iso (or any) play. One swing after that and Terry or Peja of Kidd ends up very open a lot. LeBron did this in Cleveland with, iirc, Daniel Gibson for three in the corner against Detroit?

That makes sense. I'd have to pay more attention to be sure and maybe not be as drunk at the end of most games, I guess. I guess it's more a question of the ability/desire of the star to pass when the double team comes.My only recollection of someone hitting a big three from the corner for the LeBron-era Cavs was Damon Jones knocking out the Wizards in Game 6 in 2006.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'd still root for the Heat and just about anybody else though to beat the Lakers so long as Kobe is on that team and you handful of guys here continue to slobber over him disproportionately, blindly, and disturbingly obsessively.

Kobe is widely regarded as one of the top 10 players to ever lace them up. Alot of the slobbering has merit. Far more disturbing is the surprise amongst you haters that a top 10 all time player is going to be loved by fans of his team.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Are you constantly blown away when ISO's are run at the end of games over and over and over again by most teams at all levels of basketball?

I certainly understand where you're coming from - I'm a fan of motion offenses in general and I'm a firm believer that lack of ball movement and leads to stagnant players and less effective offense overall. But in 1 possession, do-or-die situations in which the defense is set, just running the regular offense rarely works because the defense is at such an advantage.

How often do those Isos work out Tommy? Not very often. You usually end up with an off balance, contested jumper from distance - that's a fail regardless of who is taking the shot. The defense is at an advantage because they basically only have to cover 1 guy. You're putting zero pressure on them. It's stupid. It's a sop to the biggest ego on the team. Obviously if you've only got 3 seconds to work with your options are limited, but when you have a near full 24 and you run an iso you're doing the other team a favor. Bad offense.

I've made this argument consistently for a while now. There's a lot of factors at work in the final minute that make it difficult to compare apples to apples, but to me the strongest evidence that the Groovus position here is the correct one is the fact that when Hollinger did that article:

(1) the best offense in the league in the final minute was the one with the best pass-first point guard, Chris Paul, and

(2) unlike what I assume is pretty much every other team in the league (Hollinger didn't include all the data for all the teams) they were actually as good or better in the final minute as they were throughout the game, meaning that other "factors" like increased defensive intensity or fatigue or whatever really weren't factors at all.

I'm open to another argument, but to my mind, if you want to argue that running final possessions through stars and/or running ISOs is the best way to play down the stretch, you have to address that point. Why is the best team down the stretch also the one that's the most unpredictable?

It's not a coincidence that that PG happens to be the best PG in the world right now, and probably one of the 2-3 best PGs of all time.

Sure ... but he's the best PG every minute of the game, not just the last one. The Hornets aren't the league's best offense for those first 47 minutes; the question is, what changes in that last minute for the Hornets relative to the rest of the league?

 

[tommyGunZ]

I absolutely love Chris Paul and have followed him for years - I grew up ~ 40 minutes from CP3's hometown, so I've been reading about this "kid from Winston Salem" for ~ 10 years now. I think he's the most underrated and underappreciated player in the NBA today.

Here's the All Time Career PER top 20 as of today:

Rank Player PER1. Michael Jordan* 27.912. LeBron James 26.913. Shaquille O'Neal 26.434. David Robinson* 26.185. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.136. Dwyane Wade 25.657. Bob Pettit* 25.378. Chris Paul 25.229. Tim Duncan 24.8410. Neil Johnston* 24.7311. Charles Barkley* 24.6312. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.5813. Magic Johnson* 24.1114. Karl Malone* 23.9015. Dirk Nowitzki 23.7316. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.5917. Julius Erving* 23.5718. Kobe Bryant 23.5319. Larry Bird* 23.5020. Kevin Garnett 23.4421. Oscar Robertson* 23.1722. Yao Ming 23.0223. Jerry West* 22.9024. Elgin Baylor* 22.7025. Amare Stoudemire 22.59
That's right, CP3 is the 8th most efficient player in NBA history, and he's only that low due to the knee injury in '09 that he's still getting over.

 

[Instinctive]

My argument would be that New Orleans DID run their offense through their star on isolation plays. It just so happens that his brand of playmaking (which he is easily, far and away the best at) involves creating a wide open shot for somebody else. On a side note, Dallas is actually similar to this in that Dirk is a great pass-out-of-er when he gets doubled on an iso (or any) play. One swing after that and Terry or Peja of Kidd ends up very open a lot. LeBron did this in Cleveland with, iirc, Daniel Gibson for three in the corner against Detroit?

That makes sense. I'd have to pay more attention to be sure and maybe not be as drunk at the end of most games, I guess. I guess it's more a question of the ability/desire of the star to pass when the double team comes.My only recollection of someone hitting a big three from the corner for the LeBron-era Cavs was Damon Jones knocking out the Wizards in Game 6 in 2006.

The three pointer was missed. I think the next game LeBron took it himself through a double in the lane to finish at the rim. But it was a few years ago and I only paid so much attention, since I am and always have been a Mavs fan since I began to play/watch basketball.

 

[drummer]

I'd still root for the Heat and just about anybody else though to beat the Lakers so long as Kobe is on that team and you handful of guys here continue to slobber over him disproportionately, blindly, and disturbingly obsessively.

Kobe is widely regarded as one of the top 10 players to ever lace them up. Alot of the slobbering has merit. Far more disturbing is the surprise amongst you haters that a top 10 all time player is going to be loved by fans of his team.

There is a lot more slobbering over Kobe from the Anti Bryant faction than there is Laker fans knowing who the best player on that team, as well as the known fact he is one of the best in the NBA without question. It's laughable how they try to explain Laker basketball.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I'd still root for the Heat and just about anybody else though to beat the Lakers so long as Kobe is on that team and you handful of guys here continue to slobber over him disproportionately, blindly, and disturbingly obsessively.

Kobe is widely regarded as one of the top 10 players to ever lace them up. Alot of the slobbering has merit. Far more disturbing is the surprise amongst you haters that a top 10 all time player is going to be loved by fans of his team.

I don't want to rehash the whole Kobe debate right now. You know my feelings on his all-time status and how often he was even the best player in the league (or on his team) in a given year. It's more when people of your ilk try to invoke Jordan or even use the two names in sentences in the same paragraph that bothers me the most though. It's not close there. At all.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I absolutely love Chris Paul and have followed him for years - I grew up ~ 40 minutes from CP3's hometown, so I've been reading about this "kid from Winston Salem" for ~ 10 years now. I think he's the most underrated and underappreciated player in the NBA today.Here's the All Time Career PER top 20 as of today:

Rank	Player	PER1.	Michael Jordan*	27.912.	LeBron James	26.913.	Shaquille O'Neal	26.434.	David Robinson*	26.185.	Wilt Chamberlain*	26.136.	Dwyane Wade	25.657.	Bob Pettit*	25.378.	Chris Paul	25.229.	Tim Duncan	24.8410.	Neil Johnston*	24.7311.	Charles Barkley*	24.6312.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	24.5813.	Magic Johnson*	24.1114.	Karl Malone*	23.9015.	Dirk Nowitzki	23.7316.	Hakeem Olajuwon*	23.5917.	Julius Erving*	23.5718.	Kobe Bryant	23.5319.	Larry Bird*	23.5020.	Kevin Garnett	23.4421.	Oscar Robertson*	23.1722.	Yao Ming	23.0223.	Jerry West*	22.9024.	Elgin Baylor*	22.7025.	Amare Stoudemire	22.59

That's right, CP3 is the 8th most efficient player in NBA history, and he's only that low due to the knee injury in '09 that he's still getting over.

I'm surprised Magic isn't higher and that Amare even makes the cut really.

 

[drummer]

I'd still root for the Heat and just about anybody else though to beat the Lakers so long as Kobe is on that team and you handful of guys here continue to slobber over him disproportionately, blindly, and disturbingly obsessively.

Kobe is widely regarded as one of the top 10 players to ever lace them up. Alot of the slobbering has merit. Far more disturbing is the surprise amongst you haters that a top 10 all time player is going to be loved by fans of his team.

I don't want to rehash the whole Kobe debate right now. You know my feelings on his all-time status and how often he was even the best player in the league (or on his team) in a given year. It's more when people of your ilk try to invoke Jordan or even use the two names in sentences in the same paragraph that bothers me the most though. It's not close there. At all.

It doesn't matter what you think. In the end, Bryant's career will stand on it's own merits, and be regarded as one of the great players of his generation, and a sure fire HOF.

 

[encaitar]

I absolutely love Chris Paul and have followed him for years - I grew up ~ 40 minutes from CP3's hometown, so I've been reading about this "kid from Winston Salem" for ~ 10 years now. I think he's the most underrated and underappreciated player in the NBA today.Here's the All Time Career PER top 20 as of today:

Rank	Player	PER1.	Michael Jordan*	27.912.	LeBron James	26.913.	Shaquille O'Neal	26.434.	David Robinson*	26.185.	Wilt Chamberlain*	26.136.	Dwyane Wade	25.657.	Bob Pettit*	25.378.	Chris Paul	25.229.	Tim Duncan	24.8410.	Neil Johnston*	24.7311.	Charles Barkley*	24.6312.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	24.5813.	Magic Johnson*	24.1114.	Karl Malone*	23.9015.	Dirk Nowitzki	23.7316.	Hakeem Olajuwon*	23.5917.	Julius Erving*	23.5718.	Kobe Bryant	23.5319.	Larry Bird*	23.5020.	Kevin Garnett	23.4421.	Oscar Robertson*	23.1722.	Yao Ming	23.0223.	Jerry West*	22.9024.	Elgin Baylor*	22.7025.	Amare Stoudemire	22.59

That's right, CP3 is the 8th most efficient player in NBA history, and he's only that low due to the knee injury in '09 that he's still getting over.

I'm surprised Magic isn't higher and that Amare even makes the cut really.

I'm actually more surprised Shaq is still that high after these last 5 years. Shows how ridiculously unstoppable he was in his prime. Crazy.

 

[bryhamm]

I absolutely love Chris Paul and have followed him for years - I grew up ~ 40 minutes from CP3's hometown, so I've been reading about this "kid from Winston Salem" for ~ 10 years now. I think he's the most underrated and underappreciated player in the NBA today.Here's the All Time Career PER top 20 as of today:

Rank	Player	PER1.	Michael Jordan*	27.912.	LeBron James	26.913.	Shaquille O'Neal	26.434.	David Robinson*	26.185.	Wilt Chamberlain*	26.136.	Dwyane Wade	25.657.	Bob Pettit*	25.378.	Chris Paul	25.229.	Tim Duncan	24.8410.	Neil Johnston*	24.7311.	Charles Barkley*	24.6312.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	24.5813.	Magic Johnson*	24.1114.	Karl Malone*	23.9015.	Dirk Nowitzki	23.7316.	Hakeem Olajuwon*	23.5917.	Julius Erving*	23.5718.	Kobe Bryant	23.5319.	Larry Bird*	23.5020.	Kevin Garnett	23.4421.	Oscar Robertson*	23.1722.	Yao Ming	23.0223.	Jerry West*	22.9024.	Elgin Baylor*	22.7025.	Amare Stoudemire	22.59

That's right, CP3 is the 8th most efficient player in NBA history, and he's only that low due to the knee injury in '09 that he's still getting over.

Where the hell is Bill Russell?

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Are you constantly blown away when ISO's are run at the end of games over and over and over again by most teams at all levels of basketball? I certainly understand where you're coming from - I'm a fan of motion offenses in general and I'm a firm believer that lack of ball movement and leads to stagnant players and less effective offense overall. But in 1 possession, do-or-die situations in which the defense is set, just running the regular offense rarely works because the defense is at such an advantage.

How often do those Isos work out Tommy? Not very often. You usually end up with an off balance, contested jumper from distance - that's a fail regardless of who is taking the shot. The defense is at an advantage because they basically only have to cover 1 guy. You're putting zero pressure on them. It's stupid. It's a sop to the biggest ego on the team. Obviously if you've only got 3 seconds to work with your options are limited, but when you have a near full 24 and you run an iso you're doing the other team a favor. Bad offense.

I've made this argument consistently for a while now. There's a lot of factors at work in the final minute that make it difficult to compare apples to apples, but to me the strongest evidence that the Groovus position here is the correct one is the fact that when Hollinger did that article:(1) the best offense in the league in the final minute was the one with the best pass-first point guard, Chris Paul, and

Go look back at that article. They started ranking teams when Kobe Bryant entered the league. Kobe was in his 14th season. Chris Paul in his 5th. At the very least 64% of that data has nothing to do with Chris Paul.

 

[Kev4029]

Where the hell is Bill Russell?

Probably being held back by his 44% career shooting mark.Well that and the lack of a complete boxscore in his day.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I'm actually more surprised Shaq is still that high after these last 5 years. Shows how ridiculously unstoppable he was in his prime. Crazy.

I'm well aware Shaq was totally dominant during his prime, but to see he STILL ranks as #3 all time despite his last several years is amazing. Just goes to show Kobe, while a good player, gets more credit than he should as he was clearly riding Shaq's coattails to start his career.

 

[No. 16]

Jerry West Press Conference

Watched the Jerry West Press Conference today and you have to be impressed with the way Lacob and Gruber are running things in the Bay. Great to have owners who actually care about winning and not only that but have a plan to win.

From the sound of West's response regarding Curry/Ellis it looks like he knows we have to break up the Curry + Ellis back court. Reading between the lines, I think it looks like he'll want to move Monta. He mentioned about trading high scoring players because their teams don't win. Couldn't agree with West more.

Monta is a fine player but he needs to be able to defend the opposing team's point guard, not it's shooting guard.

At the end of the day you got to be happy with the Warriors new ownership and the executive committee they have put together. Looks like Lacob will have the final say in things, but he has surrounded himself with enough basketball knowledge (Larry Riley and West as old school evaluators, hiring the former player agent to be asst. gm, and his son running statistics) and seems pragmatic enough to lead the Warriors to sustained greatness.

 

[bagger]

we

no

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'm actually more surprised Shaq is still that high after these last 5 years. Shows how ridiculously unstoppable he was in his prime. Crazy.

I'm well aware Shaq was totally dominant during his prime, but to see he STILL ranks as #3 all time despite his last several years is amazing. Just goes to show Kobe, while a good player, gets more credit than he should as he was clearly riding Shaq's coattails to start his career.

I'm sure it's just a coincedence that Shaq has 1 title in the 13 yrs that he wasn't playing with dominant, All NBA Kobe. The 5 years that they played together when Kobe had officially arrived: 3 titles.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I'm actually more surprised Shaq is still that high after these last 5 years. Shows how ridiculously unstoppable he was in his prime. Crazy.

I'm well aware Shaq was totally dominant during his prime, but to see he STILL ranks as #3 all time despite his last several years is amazing. Just goes to show Kobe, while a good player, gets more credit than he should as he was clearly riding Shaq's coattails to start his career.

I'm sure it's just a coincedence that Shaq has 1 title in the 13 yrs that he wasn't playing with dominant, All NBA Kobe. The 5 years that they played together when Kobe had officially arrived: 3 titles.

Shaq was in his peak during that time. Kobe is a very good player and of course he helped Shaq dominate. But if Allen Iverson had replaced Kobe Shaq would have likely been just as dominant.This doesn't take away from Kobe's recent rings.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

I'm actually more surprised Shaq is still that high after these last 5 years. Shows how ridiculously unstoppable he was in his prime. Crazy.

I'm well aware Shaq was totally dominant during his prime, but to see he STILL ranks as #3 all time despite his last several years is amazing. Just goes to show Kobe, while a good player, gets more credit than he should as he was clearly riding Shaq's coattails to start his career.

I'm sure it's just a coincedence that Shaq has 1 title in the 13 yrs that he wasn't playing with dominant, All NBA Kobe. The 5 years that they played together when Kobe had officially arrived: 3 titles.

Shaq was in his peak during that time. Kobe is a very good player and of course he helped Shaq dominate. But if Allen Iverson had replaced Kobe Shaq would have likely been just as dominant.This doesn't take away from Kobe's recent rings.

Only player with 5+ rings with only 1 all star teammate. Sorry he didn't do it like Hakeem.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'm actually more surprised Shaq is still that high after these last 5 years. Shows how ridiculously unstoppable he was in his prime. Crazy.

I'm well aware Shaq was totally dominant during his prime, but to see he STILL ranks as #3 all time despite his last several years is amazing. Just goes to show Kobe, while a good player, gets more credit than he should as he was clearly riding Shaq's coattails to start his career.

I'm sure it's just a coincedence that Shaq has 1 title in the 13 yrs that he wasn't playing with dominant, All NBA Kobe. The 5 years that they played together when Kobe had officially arrived: 3 titles.

Shaq was in his peak during that time. Kobe is a very good player and of course he helped Shaq dominate. But if Allen Iverson had replaced Kobe Shaq would have likely been just as dominant.This doesn't take away from Kobe's recent rings.

Sure Shaq may have been "just as dominant", but that doesn't equate to championships. Shaq didn't win them with Penny pre-LA, he only won 1 with Wade in Miami, and he didn't win in '03 or '04 with Kobe.The idea that Shaq could have won titles with any All-Star caliber guard back in the day is a myth.

 

[sihaokills]

Bold prediction: Taj Gibson 23 points 7 rebounds 3 assists

Bulls win 98-87

 

[Britney Spears]

That's their whole offense. Everythign they run is Isolation. EVERYTHING. Either the PG "does something" or they run a high screen with the sole purpose of getting Durant the ball up high. There are very few picks away from the ball near the basket, almost no pick and roles, almost no passes inside that aren't simply for the purpose of passing the ball back out...it's amazing how boring the offense is.

This paragraph could apply to the Heat IMO.

 

[Kev4029]

That's their whole offense. Everythign they run is Isolation. EVERYTHING. Either the PG "does something" or they run a high screen with the sole purpose of getting Durant the ball up high. There are very few picks away from the ball near the basket, almost no pick and roles, almost no passes inside that aren't simply for the purpose of passing the ball back out...it's amazing how boring the offense is.

This paragraph could apply to the Heat IMO.

That paragraph could apply to any of 20 teams in the NBA.

 

[Britney Spears]

I know the Bulls are up early, but they sure look like they are rushing everything to me.

 

[Britney Spears]

When is this commercial of Michael Jordan laying on the ground from?

 

[ArbyMelt]

When is this commercial of Michael Jordan laying on the ground from?

When he won the championship after his dad died, I believe it was on Father's day too

 

[JMon348]

When is this commercial of Michael Jordan laying on the ground from?

vs your Sonics in 96.

 

[ArbyMelt]

Heat still recovering from the missed dunk that would have given them a 6-0 lead. Bulls on a 19-4 run since.

 

[Juxtatarot]

When is this commercial of Michael Jordan laying on the ground from?

After Bulls 4th championship. I think it's in poor taste since Jordan's emotions stemmed in part from the murder of his father.

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

Lebron having a hard time finding the bucket on that trip. Geez.

 

[Britney Spears]

When is this commercial of Michael Jordan laying on the ground from?

vs your Sonics in 96.

That's what I was thinking. : (

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

James is playing 1 on 5 at this point.

 

[Britney Spears]

At what point to we see the normal Dwayne Wade? You have to think he erupts in one of these games, right?

 

[timschochet]

At what point to we see the normal Dwayne Wade? You have to think he erupts in one of these games, right?

I think we just saw him there. Spectacular drive and pass. I don't think there's a better guy at penetrating in the entire NBA.

 

[Britney Spears]

At what point to we see the normal Dwayne Wade? You have to think he erupts in one of these games, right?

I think we just saw him there. Spectacular drive and pass. I don't think there's a better guy at penetrating in the entire NBA.

That was a great pass. He seems a step slow to me though.

 

[Britney Spears]

Oh my.

 

[Britney Spears]

Boozer cherry picking LOL LOL LOL.

 

[ArbyMelt]

Is this really good defense or bad offense? Yea, the defenses are good, but both these teams can be really bad on offense as well. The Bulls depend way too much on Rose, and the Heat go into this isolation offense, and look pretty bad as well.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Keep an eye on this Rose guy. He could be pretty good.

 

[Britney Spears]

HFS

 

[Instinctive]

Derrick Rose knows how to dunk.

Edit: I think.