*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (2 Viewers)

[Kev4029]

Cc - right. Paul, Williams, Howard aren't coming to Houston. Maybe try and get Westbrook next year? Just a pain to be a fan of a team that isn't in la or ny.

Unless they have roots in Houston, why would they go? No stars to make them the next super-friends team. Only hope for the other 25 or so teams in the league is getting lucky in the draft (after being ####ty for multiple years) and then hope they can win a title in the 5 year window which they have a superstar. Cause if they don't Of course this is assuming that the year they do get lucky in the draft that the player isn't a snot-nosed brat and demands to play for a specific team before he is even in the league.

It's the fourth largest tv market in the country and one of the two most popular teams in china (still). The potential tO be an international star in Houston is as high as it is anywhere else, new York and la included. I'm just pointing out that it makes no sense for houstOn to be a bad free agent spot like it is.

Houston's not a great FA draw because it's a ####ty place to live. I spent six years there and don't ever want to go back unless I absolutely have to.

As it were, Houston happens to be the offseason landing spot for many of the NBA players. I would guess its right behind Cali, New York and maybe southern Florida. If you grow up in the south the 95 degrees with 80% humidity for the entire summer wouldn't bother you. Life is also MUCH different living in the suburbs of Houston (total ####) and inside the loop (pretty cool).

 

[scoobygang]

Let us put this as simply as possible.

The Hornets signed Chris Paul for x years and x million dollars.

We are now in the last year of that contract. The Hornets own the rights to one year of Chris Paul's professional basketball services. And they are entitled to try to get as much compensation for that one year as possible. That's the deal they made. If they wanted more, they should have traded him before he became a one-year rental. They didn't negotiate a deal giving them control over where Chris Paul plays after his contract expires. It's truly weird to pretend as if any athlete owes them anything more than what they bargained for. If he does agree to a trade and signs an extension, are the Hornets going to pay him more money? Are the fans who "supported him?" Of course not. Or to the extent that they do, they do so by allowing "loyal" players to earn more through endorsements. In which case, the market will sort this all out.

 

[Instinctive]

Cc - right.

Paul, Williams, Howard aren't coming to Houston. Maybe try and get Westbrook next year? Just a pain to be a fan of a team that isn't in la or ny.

Unless they have roots in Houston, why would they go? No stars to make them the next super-friends team. Only hope for the other 25 or so teams in the league is getting lucky in the draft (after being ####ty for multiple years) and then hope they can win a title in the 5 year window which they have a superstar. Cause if they don't Of course this is assuming that the year they do get lucky in the draft that the player isn't a snot-nosed brat and demands to play for a specific team before he is even in the league.

It's the fourth largest tv market in the country and one of the two most popular teams in china (still). The potential tO be an international star in Houston is as high as it is anywhere else, new York and la included. I'm just pointing out that it makes no sense for houstOn to be a bad free agent spot like it is.

Houston's not a great FA draw because it's a ####ty place to live. I spent six years there and don't ever want to go back unless I absolutely have to.

As it were, Houston happens to be the offseason landing spot for many of the NBA players. I would guess its right behind Cali, New York and maybe southern Florida. If you grow up in the south the 95 degrees with 80% humidity for the entire summer wouldn't bother you. Life is also MUCH different living in the suburbs of Houston (total ####) and inside the loop (pretty cool).

And yet it did. The number one reason I prefer Dallas, even when it's over 100 degrees for 40+ days straight in the summer. To each their own I suppose, just providing one perspective eon why Houston's not the biggest FA draw.

 

[Gr00vus]

And it was one of several for L.A. too. It's hard to make a worse personnel decision than drafting Javaris freaking Crittenton in the first round.Bottom line: explain to me why it's rational behavior for me to continue to support the Wizards given the actions of almost every elite player in the league over the last half-decade. Just cross my fingers and hand over thousands of dollars for tickets and watch hundreds of hours of games on the slim chance that he's more Kevin Durant than LeBron/Carmelo/Paul/Bosh/Amare/Williams/etc.?Every other league has figured out a way to answer that question for small and mid market teams. The NBA needs to do the same.

19th pick Javaris Crittenton is what you're coming with? I'll consider that as you waiving the white flag.If your sole reason for watching NBA basketball is having your team be competitive every year regardless of poor management, then the NBA probably isn't the league for you. D.C./Baltimore may not be L.A. but it's not Memphis either. This griping about big market/small market is ineffectual when the San Antonio Spurs and Detroit Pistons have multiple championships in the last 20 years, the Clippers can play in the exact same city for 25 years, the exact same stadium for 10 as the Lakers and have zero championships - zero. Your team sucks? Take it up with their management. Stop paying idiotic contracts to guys like Gilbert Arenas for starters.

 

[rodg12]

Can someone remind me who won the title last year? Was it a team who brought in a star from somewhere else or one whose star stayed?

TIA.

 

[the moops]

In all the hysteria, did anybody mention the Brandon Bass for Big Baby trade?

No - did that really happen? Seems like there's a couple more shoes that need to drop after that one.

Yahoo reporting it, it appears. As of this moment though, I am assuming nothing is real.

Not sure why Orlando would do that deal.

 

[Gr00vus]

But that Cle one was just one of several. Like I said, they turned down some other deals that would have helped because Delonte West was untouchable.

please list the impact, superstar, Lebron-saving players that did not come to Cleveland because Danny Ferry refused to trade DELONTE F###ING WEST.come on man.p and s don't forget the Cavs getting screwed by Carlos See You Next Tuesday Boozer.

I don't have time now to go back over the NBA threads from seasons past, I'll try and dig it up eventually, but the Delonte West stuff is all documented in there.And yes Boozer hosed them, sort of. I still contend it'd be tough to win it all with him as your 4 unless you have one of the top 5's defensively. Varejao might have made it work though.

 

[Gr00vus]

In all the hysteria, did anybody mention the Brandon Bass for Big Baby trade?

No - did that really happen? Seems like there's a couple more shoes that need to drop after that one.

Yahoo reporting it, it appears. As of this moment though, I am assuming nothing is real.

Not sure why Orlando would do that deal.

Me either unless it's part of some other moves.

 

[rodg12]

And it was one of several for L.A. too. It's hard to make a worse personnel decision than drafting Javaris freaking Crittenton in the first round.Bottom line: explain to me why it's rational behavior for me to continue to support the Wizards given the actions of almost every elite player in the league over the last half-decade. Just cross my fingers and hand over thousands of dollars for tickets and watch hundreds of hours of games on the slim chance that he's more Kevin Durant than LeBron/Carmelo/Paul/Bosh/Amare/Williams/etc.?Every other league has figured out a way to answer that question for small and mid market teams. The NBA needs to do the same.

19th pick Javaris Crittenton is what you're coming with? I'll consider that as you waiving the white flag.If your sole reason for watching NBA basketball is having your team be competitive every year regardless of poor management, then the NBA probably isn't the league for you. D.C./Baltimore may not be L.A. but it's not Memphis either. This griping about big market/small market is ineffectual when the San Antonio Spurs and Detroit Pistons have multiple championships in the last 20 years, the Clippers can play in the exact same city for 25 years, the exact same stadium for 10 as the Lakers and have zero championships - zero. Your team sucks? Take it up with their management. Stop paying idiotic contracts to guys like Gilbert Arenas for starters.

Let's throw in the number of Knicks titles in the last 20 years too -> 0

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Let us put this as simply as possible. The Hornets signed Chris Paul for x years and x million dollars.We are now in the last year of that contract. The Hornets own the rights to one year of Chris Paul's professional basketball services. And they are entitled to try to get as much compensation for that one year as possible. That's the deal they made. If they wanted more, they should have traded him before he became a one-year rental. They didn't negotiate a deal giving them control over where Chris Paul plays after his contract expires. It's truly weird to pretend as if any athlete owes them anything more than what they bargained for. If he does agree to a trade and signs an extension, are the Hornets going to pay him more money? Are the fans who "supported him?" Of course not. Or to the extent that they do, they do so by allowing "loyal" players to earn more through endorsements. In which case, the market will sort this all out.

The crux of the problem is that individual players are far more valuable in basketball than they are in Football and Baseball, yet the NBA has significantly less protection for the franchises than those sports. In football, this is non-issue. A franchise tag is applied and the player may be upset about it, but they have no real leverage other than to hold out. MLB teams have long periods of player and cost control and then several years of arbitration, giving teams a long window to find the right deals and varying degrees of compensation for lost players.

 

[Premier]

In all the hysteria, did anybody mention the Brandon Bass for Big Baby trade?

No - did that really happen? Seems like there's a couple more shoes that need to drop after that one.

Yahoo reporting it, it appears. As of this moment though, I am assuming nothing is real.

Not sure why Orlando would do that deal.

Apparently Baby was on DH's "wish list".

 

[scoobygang]

The crux of the problem is that individual players are far more valuable in basketball than they are in Football and Baseball, yet the NBA has significantly less protection for the franchises than those sports. In football, this is non-issue. A franchise tag is applied and the player may be upset about it, but they have no real leverage other than to hold out. MLB teams have long periods of player and cost control and then several years of arbitration, giving teams a long window to find the right deals and varying degrees of compensation for lost players.

All of which were collectively bargained for. If the NBA owners wanted to play further hardball and lockout for the right to a franchise tag or arbitration, that would have been fine.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

But that Cle one was just one of several. Like I said, they turned down some other deals that would have helped because Delonte West was untouchable.

please list the impact, superstar, Lebron-saving players that did not come to Cleveland because Danny Ferry refused to trade DELONTE F###ING WEST.come on man.p and s don't forget the Cavs getting screwed by Carlos See You Next Tuesday Boozer.

I don't have time now to go back over the NBA threads from seasons past, I'll try and dig it up eventually, but the Delonte West stuff is all documented in there.

take your time

 

[wadegarrett]

But that Cle one was just one of several. Like I said, they turned down some other deals that would have helped because Delonte West was untouchable.

please list the impact, superstar, Lebron-saving players that did not come to Cleveland because Danny Ferry refused to trade DELONTE F###ING WEST.come on man.p and s don't forget the Cavs getting screwed by Carlos See You Next Tuesday Boozer.

And everyone always seems to forget what a disaster the team was when Gilbert bought it. Jim Paxson single handedly ruined the franchise for LeBron's first years. Couple that with LeBron's failure to sign a longer extension after his rookie contract and the Cavs were forced to go the route they did.

 

[Max Power]

Lamar Odom did not show up for the first day of training camp with the Lakers, in the wake of his nearly being traded to the Hornets.Odom sounded despondent when interviewed last night, saying among other things, "You don’t want to go to no place you’re not wanted. I’ll try to give them what they want as much as possible." Pau Gasol showed up, to his credit.

 

[Gr00vus]

The crux of the problem is that individual players are far more valuable in basketball than they are in Football and Baseball, yet the NBA has significantly less protection for the franchises than those sports. In football, this is non-issue. A franchise tag is applied and the player may be upset about it, but they have no real leverage other than to hold out. MLB teams have long periods of player and cost control and then several years of arbitration, giving teams a long window to find the right deals and varying degrees of compensation for lost players.

All of which were collectively bargained for. If the NBA owners wanted to play further hardball and lockout for the right to a franchise tag or arbitration, that would have been fine.

 

[GroveDiesel]

a snot-nosed brat and demands to play for a specific team before he is even in the league.

Yeah, #### those guys for wanting to decide where they work/live and who they want to work with!You're being ridiculous here.

You're right. Lets get rid of the draft and just let players go where they want. May as well get rid of contracts since they don't mean a whole hell of a lot anymore.

Go for it. I'm serious. At will seems to work in every other industry, let's open it up. Can't be any worse than what they have now according to you, right?

Nope, can't get much worse. At least now, there might be fleeting hope for a couple years but that is more a pipe dream than anything else.

Getting rid of the draft certainly can't hurt Toronto. Your Raptors suck not b/c big market teams are bullies, but b/c your organization is horrible when it comes to talent evaluation. In '05 you pased on Bynum, DLee and Granger for Chuckie V. You took Bargnani over Roy, Gay, Aldridge and Rondo in '06. The Raptors didn't even have a draft pick in '07. In '08, you traded the rights to Roy Hibbert for Jermaine O'Neal.Memo to Cliff - stop the whining and start holding your franchise accountable for the horrible draft decisions that put them in the hole they're in.

Right, because not every franchise can be smart enough to have Kobe Bryant force a trade to them on draft day, have Shaq force a trade to them, Kareem, etc. Let's look at the awesome job the Lakers have done drafting the past few years:Javaris CrittentonJordan FarmarSaša VujačićBrian CookKareem RushBynum is their only decent pick in the last decade. Nice job there!If it weren't for superstar players forcing trades to the Lakers, L.A. would be completely irrelevant and a bottom of the barrel team.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

a snot-nosed brat and demands to play for a specific team before he is even in the league.

Yeah, #### those guys for wanting to decide where they work/live and who they want to work with!You're being ridiculous here.

You're right. Lets get rid of the draft and just let players go where they want. May as well get rid of contracts since they don't mean a whole hell of a lot anymore.

Go for it. I'm serious. At will seems to work in every other industry, let's open it up. Can't be any worse than what they have now according to you, right?

Nope, can't get much worse. At least now, there might be fleeting hope for a couple years but that is more a pipe dream than anything else.

Getting rid of the draft certainly can't hurt Toronto. Your Raptors suck not b/c big market teams are bullies, but b/c your organization is horrible when it comes to talent evaluation. In '05 you pased on Bynum, DLee and Granger for Chuckie V. You took Bargnani over Roy, Gay, Aldridge and Rondo in '06. The Raptors didn't even have a draft pick in '07. In '08, you traded the rights to Roy Hibbert for Jermaine O'Neal.Memo to Cliff - stop the whining and start holding your franchise accountable for the horrible draft decisions that put them in the hole they're in.

I never claimed they were a top notch organization. What happens when they did pick right? Wince dogged it till he got traded. Bosh mailed in the second half of the season then left. When they get a player, they leave. I'm pretty sure you could cherry pick bad draft picks by every team in the league. It isn't an exact science. Might want to rethink the Bargnani over Roy. Thats looking pretty good for Toronto.And FYI, they are not my organization.

 

[B-Deep]

The crux of the problem is that individual players are far more valuable in basketball than they are in Football and Baseball, yet the NBA has significantly less protection for the franchises than those sports. In football, this is non-issue. A franchise tag is applied and the player may be upset about it, but they have no real leverage other than to hold out. MLB teams have long periods of player and cost control and then several years of arbitration, giving teams a long window to find the right deals and varying degrees of compensation for lost players.

All of which were collectively bargained for. If the NBA owners wanted to play further hardball and lockout for the right to a franchise tag or arbitration, that would have been fine.

and they should have

 

[Kev4029]

First bolded: What? Cleveland led the league in wins with LeBron one season, and made the Finals in a different season. They absolutely put him in a position to win a title. They just didn't get it done and he didn't want to stick around and give them more chances, even though there's a pretty good chance they would have gotten it done in the next few years. And when he left he didn't go to the place he thought had the best chance of putting a winning team together. That would probably have been Chicago. He went to one of the glamour destinations (one of just a handful in the league) so he could play with his buddy and try to build a superteam. That is what I'm saying is the new phenomenon, and it's bad for the league.

We've covered this so many times already, but You're crazy if you think that Cleveland team was put together well enough to win anything, and the results bear that out. They had a shot at impact players - not Jamison or gimpy Shaq - but didn't pull the trigger because guys like Parker and West were untouchable. Maybe that's what LeBron dictated, but either way they ####ed up and eventually landed themselves in cap hell as a result of their bad decisions. They land Stoudamire instead of Jamison, he's probably still in Cleveland and they probably have a ring or two to show for it. So LeBron left. Learn from that and move on. But that's not on the players, that's on the bad management decisions. It's that simple.

What about the case of Melo? He straight bolted a situation that was far superior to that in which he ended up. Look at how the Nuggets are being picked through post Melo. Nene is the hottest free agent in the class and will end up with a huge contract, its likely that Afflalo will be gone as well as the highest paid wing in free agency. They drafted well when they had picks (traded many of them away for veteran talent), they made fantastic trades (turning Andre Miller into Allen Iverson, turning Iverson into Billups, A 2nd rounder for Afflalo, two 2nds for JR, Camby and Nene for a broken McDyess the year before he was drafted), they've picked handfuls of legit talent off the scrap heap (Anthony Carter, Dahntay Jones, Chris Anderson), they ran the organization nearly as well as it could have been run making only one mistake I can remember in the entirety of the 00's (the Kenyon Martin deal instead of Ginobili). Other than the year the Nuggets made the finals (and Anthony Carter ####ed them), many of the teams problems in the playoffs that kept them from advancing were Melo's fault. What does the organization get rewarded with? Melo giving them the finger and forcing his way to NY (which the Nuggets did a fantastic job of negotiating). There is hardly any hope for NBA fans that don't live in big markets. We'll see what happens to Durant when his current deal runs out, but the only superstar that has stayed put for his entire career was Duncan, and even he looked around and I believe almost ended up with Orlando (I could be wrong, but it was somewhere).

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

The crux of the problem is that individual players are far more valuable in basketball than they are in Football and Baseball, yet the NBA has significantly less protection for the franchises than those sports. In football, this is non-issue. A franchise tag is applied and the player may be upset about it, but they have no real leverage other than to hold out. MLB teams have long periods of player and cost control and then several years of arbitration, giving teams a long window to find the right deals and varying degrees of compensation for lost players.

All of which were collectively bargained for. If the NBA owners wanted to play further hardball and lockout for the right to a franchise tag or arbitration, that would have been fine.

I totally agree. I think it's generally acknowledged that the owners passed on addressing anything to help competitive balance, and as a consequence of that the league will largely continue to circle the drain.

 

[B-Deep]

The crux of the problem is that individual players are far more valuable in basketball than they are in Football and Baseball, yet the NBA has significantly less protection for the franchises than those sports. In football, this is non-issue. A franchise tag is applied and the player may be upset about it, but they have no real leverage other than to hold out. MLB teams have long periods of player and cost control and then several years of arbitration, giving teams a long window to find the right deals and varying degrees of compensation for lost players.

All of which were collectively bargained for. If the NBA owners wanted to play further hardball and lockout for the right to a franchise tag or arbitration, that would have been fine.

I totally agree. I think it's generally acknowledged that the owners passed on addressing anything to help competitive balance, and as a consequence of that the league will largely continue to circle the drain.

and now they are saying this trade is the sort of thing they thought would end, WHY??? you did nothing to end it. Oh, and at the same time your comish is trying to cover your crazy asses from a law suit by saying this was a basketball decision not a competitive balance decision so #### idiots

 

[scoobygang]

I totally agree. I think it's generally acknowledged that the owners passed on addressing anything to help competitive balance, and as a consequence of that the league will largely continue to circle the drain.

Maybe. I still don't see any hard evidence to suggest that the lack of parity has hurt the league's popularity. It would be better for Utah if the Jazz won the championship, but absent that, I think a Lakers/Heat or Lakers/Celtics final is better for Utah (and the Wizards and Bobcats, etc.) than an Oklahoma City / Orlando final. I'm sure the ratings would be higher, even with the big stars that are on the Thunder and Magic.

 

[Gr00vus]

But that Cle one was just one of several. Like I said, they turned down some other deals that would have helped because Delonte West was untouchable.

please list the impact, superstar, Lebron-saving players that did not come to Cleveland because Danny Ferry refused to trade DELONTE F###ING WEST.come on man.

p and s don't forget the Cavs getting screwed by Carlos See You Next Tuesday Boozer.

I don't have time now to go back over the NBA threads from seasons past, I'll try and dig it up eventually, but the Delonte West stuff is all documented in there.

take your time

Here you go: but I guess 2009 Shaq doesn't count. Since they landed him afterward and didn't win anything.

Cleveland Cavaliers and Phoenix Suns talking about Shaquille O'Neal trade again

by Brian Windhorst

Cleveland Plain Dealer

Sunday June 14, 2009According to a source, a sticking point was the Suns' interest in Delonte West, who at this point is nearly untouchable for the Cavs.

I don't get this. I'm not saying West sucks, and maybe he has a decent contract, but still - there's no rational world in which this guy is nearly untouchable if you think it's going to help you win a championship.

Still, the words Delonte West and untouchable are used in conjunction, which is the kind of poor management decision I'm talking about.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

But that Cle one was just one of several. Like I said, they turned down some other deals that would have helped because Delonte West was untouchable.

please list the impact, superstar, Lebron-saving players that did not come to Cleveland because Danny Ferry refused to trade DELONTE F###ING WEST.come on man.

p and s don't forget the Cavs getting screwed by Carlos See You Next Tuesday Boozer.

I don't have time now to go back over the NBA threads from seasons past, I'll try and dig it up eventually, but the Delonte West stuff is all documented in there.

take your time

Here you go: but I guess 2009 Shaq doesn't count. Since they landed him afterward and didn't win anything. Still, the words Delonte West and untouchable are used in conjunction, which is the kind of poor management decision I'm talking about.

Maybe they were trying to say that you shouldn't touch his herpes sore.

 

[timschochet]

Lots of pinko leftists in here. You believe the NBA owes your team equality to the big boys. The #### it does. You want to win a championship? Get a general manager who makes smart moves. Get an owner who's willing to shell out the money. But in the meantime, stop whining about the "haves" vs. the "have nots". The "haves" earned their success. If you disagree with me, you're welcome to get together with that cheap ### Cavs owner and form your own "Occupy NBA" movement.

 

[Premier]

Lots of pinko leftists in here. You believe the NBA owes your team equality to the big boys. The #### it does. You want to win a championship? Get a general manager who makes smart moves. Get an owner who's willing to shell out the money. But in the meantime, stop whining about the "haves" vs. the "have nots". The "haves" earned their success. If you disagree with me, you're welcome to get together with that cheap ### Cavs owner and form your own "Occupy NBA" movement.

Or we could just bandwagon the Steelers and Lakers like you do.

 

[wadegarrett]

Lots of pinko leftists in here. You believe the NBA owes your team equality to the big boys. The #### it does. You want to win a championship? Get a general manager who makes smart moves. Get an owner who's willing to shell out the money. But in the meantime, stop whining about the "haves" vs. the "have nots". The "haves" earned their success. If you disagree with me, you're welcome to get together with that cheap ### Cavs owner and form your own "Occupy NBA" movement.

you mean that cheap ### Cavs owner who paid into the luxury tax year after year after year?

 

[timschochet]

Lots of pinko leftists in here. You believe the NBA owes your team equality to the big boys. The #### it does. You want to win a championship? Get a general manager who makes smart moves. Get an owner who's willing to shell out the money. But in the meantime, stop whining about the "haves" vs. the "have nots". The "haves" earned their success. If you disagree with me, you're welcome to get together with that cheap ### Cavs owner and form your own "Occupy NBA" movement.

Or we could just bandwagon the Steelers and Lakers like you do.

The Lakers are from my hometown. I've been a diehard Steeler fan since 1975.

 

[timschochet]

Lots of pinko leftists in here. You believe the NBA owes your team equality to the big boys. The #### it does. You want to win a championship? Get a general manager who makes smart moves. Get an owner who's willing to shell out the money. But in the meantime, stop whining about the "haves" vs. the "have nots". The "haves" earned their success. If you disagree with me, you're welcome to get together with that cheap ### Cavs owner and form your own "Occupy NBA" movement.

you mean that cheap ### Cavs owner who paid into the luxury tax year after year after year?

I don't care. He's still a punk.

 

[Gr00vus]

First bolded: What? Cleveland led the league in wins with LeBron one season, and made the Finals in a different season. They absolutely put him in a position to win a title. They just didn't get it done and he didn't want to stick around and give them more chances, even though there's a pretty good chance they would have gotten it done in the next few years. And when he left he didn't go to the place he thought had the best chance of putting a winning team together. That would probably have been Chicago. He went to one of the glamour destinations (one of just a handful in the league) so he could play with his buddy and try to build a superteam. That is what I'm saying is the new phenomenon, and it's bad for the league.

We've covered this so many times already, but You're crazy if you think that Cleveland team was put together well enough to win anything, and the results bear that out. They had a shot at impact players - not Jamison or gimpy Shaq - but didn't pull the trigger because guys like Parker and West were untouchable. Maybe that's what LeBron dictated, but either way they ####ed up and eventually landed themselves in cap hell as a result of their bad decisions. They land Stoudamire instead of Jamison, he's probably still in Cleveland and they probably have a ring or two to show for it. So LeBron left. Learn from that and move on. But that's not on the players, that's on the bad management decisions. It's that simple.

What about the case of Melo? He straight bolted a situation that was far superior to that in which he ended up. Look at how the Nuggets are being picked through post Melo. Nene is the hottest free agent in the class and will end up with a huge contract, its likely that Afflalo will be gone as well as the highest paid wing in free agency. They drafted well when they had picks (traded many of them away for veteran talent), they made fantastic trades (turning Andre Miller into Allen Iverson, turning Iverson into Billups, A 2nd rounder for Afflalo, two 2nds for JR, Camby and Nene for a broken McDyess the year before he was drafted), they've picked handfuls of legit talent off the scrap heap (Anthony Carter, Dahntay Jones, Chris Anderson), they ran the organization nearly as well as it could have been run making only one mistake I can remember in the entirety of the 00's (the Kenyon Martin deal instead of Ginobili). Other than the year the Nuggets made the finals (and Anthony Carter ####ed them), many of the teams problems in the playoffs that kept them from advancing were Melo's fault. What does the organization get rewarded with? Melo giving them the finger and forcing his way to NY (which the Nuggets did a fantastic job of negotiating). There is hardly any hope for NBA fans that don't live in big markets. We'll see what happens to Durant when his current deal runs out, but the only superstar that has stayed put for his entire career was Duncan, and even he looked around and I believe almost ended up with Orlando (I could be wrong, but it was somewhere).

So you're complaining that the guy who kept them from winning in the playoffs forced his way out of town? You really think they were winning a championship with that roster? I don't. I think he did Denver a big favor by forcing them to get a very nice payday instead of continuing on with more years of him disappointing. I keep hearing all this bellyaching about small market teams when Memphis and OKC just went on great playoff runs. I don't get it. By the way, did you know Miami/Ft. Lauderdale is ranked just behind Minneapolis/St.Paul and just ahead of Cleveland as a T.V. market? San Antonio comes in at 37, right behind Milwaukee. It's true.

 

[Max Power]

So Bass traded for Glen Davis and now Arenas waived. At least Orlando is active today.

 

[Premier]

Lots of pinko leftists in here. You believe the NBA owes your team equality to the big boys. The #### it does. You want to win a championship? Get a general manager who makes smart moves. Get an owner who's willing to shell out the money. But in the meantime, stop whining about the "haves" vs. the "have nots". The "haves" earned their success. If you disagree with me, you're welcome to get together with that cheap ### Cavs owner and form your own "Occupy NBA" movement.

Or we could just bandwagon the Steelers and Lakers like you do.

The Lakers are from my hometown. I've been a diehard Steeler fan since 1975.

You're from Los Pittsburghangeles too??

 

[Eephus]

Lots of pinko leftists in here. You believe the NBA owes your team equality to the big boys. The #### it does. You want to win a championship? Get a general manager who makes smart moves. Get an owner who's willing to shell out the money. But in the meantime, stop whining about the "haves" vs. the "have nots". The "haves" earned their success. If you disagree with me, you're welcome to get together with that cheap ### Cavs owner and form your own "Occupy NBA" movement.

you mean that cheap ### Cavs owner who paid into the luxury tax year after year after year?

I don't care. He's still a punk.

...and so is the kid with the bow tie

 

[TobiasFunke]

And you have a strange definition of "harming." If on the way out the door to a new job I tell my current employer's clients that my coworkers at my old company are horrible people and do poor work in my opinion, am I not harming my old company? I haven't deprived them of anything they legally possessed, so I guess by your definition there's no harm done?

Broadcasting information that you could easily keep to yourself that harms the business interests of the team (and its fans) is not as bad as some of the other things Paul could have done, granted. But simply not doing the worst possible thing you could have done doesn't mean you're not an #######.

This is so bizarre. Chris Paul didn't broadcast the Hornets' information. The only thing he broadcast were his own private intentions. That doesn't belong to the Hornets. It belongs to him. No team is going to trade for him without him extending his contract, so it's not as if he could have stayed silent anyway. You are essentially saying that Chris Paul is obigated to give up free agency in order to not be an *******. Are you Kennesaw Mountain Landis?

I said nothing of the sort.The market for a player whose intentions are not known publicly is stronger than the market for a player who has publicly declared he will only play in a very limited number of destinations. Maybe every team that would trade for him would need his absolute assurance that he would sign an extension. Maybe they'd be willing to deal on a hunch. By announcing it publicly he reduces his trade value to the Hornets. He's under no obligation to keep silent, but his public silence benefits the Hornets at no cost to him. I don't see how that's complicated or controversial.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Lots of pinko leftists in here. You believe the NBA owes your team equality to the big boys. The #### it does. You want to win a championship? Get a general manager who makes smart moves. Get an owner who's willing to shell out the money. But in the meantime, stop whining about the "haves" vs. the "have nots". The "haves" earned their success. If you disagree with me, you're welcome to get together with that cheap ### Cavs owner and form your own "Occupy NBA" movement.

Or we could just bandwagon the Steelers and Lakers like you do.

Exactly. I have a feeling he is a closet fan of both the Yankees and Red Wings, but simply doesn't say it, or tries to hide it.

 

[scoobygang]

I said nothing of the sort.The market for a player whose intentions are not known publicly is stronger than the market for a player who has publicly declared he will only play in a very limited number of destinations. Maybe every team that would trade for him would need his absolute assurance that he would sign an extension. Maybe they'd be willing to deal on a hunch. By announcing it publicly he reduces his trade value to the Hornets. He's under no obligation to keep silent, but his public silence benefits the Hornets at no cost to him. I don't see how that's complicated or controversial.

Of course it's at a cost to him. If Chris Paul would rather play for the Lakers in 2012 than the Grizzlies, why shouldn't he let the market know that? Otherwise, the Lakers may hamstring their ability to sign him in 2012.

 

[Eephus]

And you have a strange definition of "harming." If on the way out the door to a new job I tell my current employer's clients that my coworkers at my old company are horrible people and do poor work in my opinion, am I not harming my old company? I haven't deprived them of anything they legally possessed, so I guess by your definition there's no harm done?

Broadcasting information that you could easily keep to yourself that harms the business interests of the team (and its fans) is not as bad as some of the other things Paul could have done, granted. But simply not doing the worst possible thing you could have done doesn't mean you're not an #######.

This is so bizarre. Chris Paul didn't broadcast the Hornets' information. The only thing he broadcast were his own private intentions. That doesn't belong to the Hornets. It belongs to him. No team is going to trade for him without him extending his contract, so it's not as if he could have stayed silent anyway. You are essentially saying that Chris Paul is obigated to give up free agency in order to not be an *******. Are you Kennesaw Mountain Landis?

I said nothing of the sort.The market for a player whose intentions are not known publicly is stronger than the market for a player who has publicly declared he will only play in a very limited number of destinations. Maybe every team that would trade for him would need his absolute assurance that he would sign an extension. Maybe they'd be willing to deal on a hunch. By announcing it publicly he reduces his trade value to the Hornets. He's under no obligation to keep silent, but his public silence benefits the Hornets at no cost to him. I don't see how that's complicated or controversial.

If Paul doesn't announce he'll limit his free agency destinations, there may be more potential suitors but a lower quality return because of the uncertainty involved. The Hornets were able to get a better offer from the Lakers because of the likelihood that LA would be able to retain him for more than this season.

 

[Premier]

Can't call the Magic owners cheap. Just gave Arenas 60 mill to take a hike. Ooooof. Gonna be a hard check to write.

 

[Gr00vus]

So Bass traded for Glen Davis and now Arenas waived. At least Orlando is active today.

Sounds like Davis is a sign and trade too. Orlando has long term plans for him?

 

[timschochet]

Lots of pinko leftists in here. You believe the NBA owes your team equality to the big boys. The #### it does. You want to win a championship? Get a general manager who makes smart moves. Get an owner who's willing to shell out the money. But in the meantime, stop whining about the "haves" vs. the "have nots". The "haves" earned their success. If you disagree with me, you're welcome to get together with that cheap ### Cavs owner and form your own "Occupy NBA" movement.

Or we could just bandwagon the Steelers and Lakers like you do.

Exactly. I have a feeling he is a closet fan of both the Yankees and Red Wings, but simply doesn't say it, or tries to hide it.

I hate the Yankees, and I don't follow hockey. I grew up in the Los Angeles area, and have been a life long Lakers, Dodgers, and UCLA fan. I admit the fact that I became a bandwagon Steelers fan- WHEN I WAS 10. Since I've continued to root for them for the past 36 years, I think I'm entitled. But seriously, why should any of you care who I root for? I don't care who any of you root for. Who I root for neither adds nor takes away merit from any of my arguments.

 

[Max Power]

So Bass traded for Glen Davis and now Arenas waived. At least Orlando is active today.

Sounds like Davis is a sign and trade too. Orlando has long term plans for him?

SpearsNBAYahoo: New Orlando Magic forward Glen Davis getting a four-year deal paying in $26 million range, source tells @YahooSports. [via Twitter]4 year deal.. This trade feels like treading water to me

 

[Kiddnets]

Yahoo reporting it looks like NeNe and Nets- 4 yrs $65M....if true glad to get someone good but sort of a let down after the Howard drama!

 

[Eephus]

So Bass traded for Glen Davis and now Arenas waived. At least Orlando is active today.

Sounds like Davis is a sign and trade too. Orlando has long term plans for him?

SpearsNBAYahoo: New Orlando Magic forward Glen Davis getting a four-year deal paying in $26 million range, source tells @YahooSports. [via Twitter]4 year deal.. This trade feels like treading water to me

At that price, Davis offers neither great value or potential. He's been a decent role player but I don't see where he can be a 30 mpg contributor.

 

[Bobcat10]

Lots of pinko leftists in here. You believe the NBA owes your team equality to the big boys. The #### it does. You want to win a championship? Get a general manager who makes smart moves. Get an owner who's willing to shell out the money. But in the meantime, stop whining about the "haves" vs. the "have nots". The "haves" earned their success. If you disagree with me, you're welcome to get together with that cheap ### Cavs owner and form your own "Occupy NBA" movement.

you mean that cheap ### Cavs owner who paid into the luxury tax year after year after year?

I don't care. He's still a punk.

C'mon man!

 

[TobiasFunke]

And it was one of several for L.A. too. It's hard to make a worse personnel decision than drafting Javaris freaking Crittenton in the first round.

Bottom line: explain to me why it's rational behavior for me to continue to support the Wizards given the actions of almost every elite player in the league over the last half-decade. Just cross my fingers and hand over thousands of dollars for tickets and watch hundreds of hours of games on the slim chance that he's more Kevin Durant than LeBron/Carmelo/Paul/Bosh/Amare/Williams/etc.?

Every other league has figured out a way to answer that question for small and mid market teams. The NBA needs to do the same.

19th pick Javaris Crittenton is what you're coming with? I'll consider that as you waiving the white flag.

If your sole reason for watching NBA basketball is having your team be competitive every year regardless of poor management, then the NBA probably isn't the league for you. D.C./Baltimore may not be L.A. but it's not Memphis either. This griping about big market/small market is ineffectual when the San Antonio Spurs and Detroit Pistons have multiple championships in the last 20 years, the Clippers can play in the exact same city for 25 years, the exact same stadium for 10 as the Lakers and have zero championships - zero. Your team sucks? Take it up with their management. Stop paying idiotic contracts to guys like Gilbert Arenas for starters.

You don't see drafting a guy who would commit murder within the next five years as evidence that the Lakers' front office isn't the wise, efficient decision-making machine you claim it to be? You really need to drop that argument. The Lakers are good because they're the Lakers, not because they're particularly well run, and we all know it.Anyway, I don't knew how you to jumped from wanting a legitimate hope of having my team be competitive any time in the next decade to me wanting my team to be competitive every year regardless of poor management. Nor do I understand why you're going back 20 years when I've made it clear that the trend that concerns me is one that's become prominent in the last 2-3 years. So let's try this again:

I'm a Wizards fan. I enjoy basketball and the NBA, but ultimately the question of whether it's worth the investment of my money and free time hinges on whether I think it's possible for my team to become one that can make a legitimate run at an NBA title any time in the next 10-15 years. Obviously in the NBA that depends largely on getting and keeping star players.

Based on the recent trends with free agents, I feel that not only is my team not going to obtain a star in free agency, but also that it's more likely than not that even if my team lucked into one in the draft or a shrewd trade, he's very likely to leave town before or within a year or two after he develops into the kind of star you can build a team around, thus negating the chance to play for a title that I think is important in deciding whether to spend time and money on the team.

1. Given the trends in free agency in the last 2-3 years, do you think my concerns are reasonable?

2. If so, is that the NBA you want? Because there are a LOT of fans in the same boat as me, and having them come to the same conclusion that I am considering is not a recipe for a successful pro sports league.

 

[Gr00vus]

So Bass traded for Glen Davis and now Arenas waived. At least Orlando is active today.

Sounds like Davis is a sign and trade too. Orlando has long term plans for him?

SpearsNBAYahoo: New Orlando Magic forward Glen Davis getting a four-year deal paying in $26 million range, source tells @YahooSports. [via Twitter]4 year deal.. This trade feels like treading water to me

At that price, Davis offers neither great value or potential. He's been a decent role player but I don't see where he can be a 30 mpg contributor.

Ding Ding Ding!

 

[Gr00vus]

The Lakers are good because they're the Lakers, not because they're particularly well run, and we all know it.

Wrong.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The Lakers are good because they're the Lakers, not because they're particularly well run, and we all know it.

Wrong.

Fine. Agree to disagree on that one. That wasn't really the part of my post I was looking forward to hearing you address, so let's move past it.

 

[wadegarrett]

Can't call the Magic owners cheap. Just gave Arenas 60 mill to take a hike. Ooooof. Gonna be a hard check to write.

Cavs may do same to Davis but its only $28 mill...cheap ### Gilbert!!!