*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (4 Viewers)

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Anybody else think Portland could make a run to the Western Conf. Finals this season?

Outside of the Thunder, it's hard to see a dominant team in the West.

I'd hate to underrate the Spurs, but that age has to catch up with them.

Lakers are falling apart.

Dallas should be very good. Odom was a great add, but losing Chandler will hurt (though it was smart). Also, Vince Carter is on the roster. That never works out well.

Clippers certainly could be the 2nd best team in the West, but they're sure to have some hiccups this season.

If Aldridge continues on the path to being a stud, there's an awful lot to like around him. Perfect complements on the frontline with Camby, Wallace, and now Thomas. Hell, maybe the get something out of Oden. They've got a bunch of guards that can get really hot for stretches. If you don't have a truly elite guard, you could do alot worst than Felton/Matthews/Batum/Crawford.

Portland's one of the deeper teams in the league and I like the way they are put together.

Oden is done for the year (big setback for the knee), Camby is done from a basketball ability standpoint (he shot UNDER 40% last year as a ####### 7 footer), Aldridge has a heart problem which could be serious (off the top of my head something like Wolfe-Parkinson-somethinsomething syndrome), Wallace is on the decline, Felton sucks (gotta trust me on this one) but I do like Matthews/Batum/Crawford as good set of role players. I would bet against them even making the playoffs and I actually find them to be a very shallow team (Aldridge/Camby at center, Wallace being a full time PF - he'll be hurt A LOT, Batum getting most of the SF minutes and a shallow backcourt rotation of Matthews/Felton/Crawford). They really only have two back ups and have big injury (or health in Aldridge's case) concerns with all three of super skinny C/PF rotation. If they hit .500 I'll be surprised.

How much?

I'll bet you $20.IMO, Denver, OKC, SA, Memphis, Dallas, Clips, and Lakers are all about assured of making the playoffs, so that would leave Portland fighting it out with GS, Houston, Phoenix in a compressed schedule with little depth and a fair amount of injury concerns up front.

ok deal

Seems like free money.

 

[Gr00vus]

Hedo Turkelo is not a match for the Lakers trade exception correct? Repeatedly hear analysts bring up that possiblity when discussing Howard to LA.

From John Hollinger:

And if you're thinking the trade exception from Dallas will help them swallow Hedo Turkoglu's contract, it doesn't. The Lakers get an exception for $8.9 million; Hedo makes $10.6 million. Lakers fans keep asking me whether the Odom exception can be combined with the earlier exception from dealing Vujacic; it can't. So the best the Lakers can do, as far as helping Orlando's cap situation, is receive Jameer Nelson or J.J. Redick with the Odom exception and then swallow Chris Duhon with the Vujacic exception.

Can it be used to offset a difference in salary if it's a one for one deal - like the Lakers send out, oh, a $4M a year contract and take back a $10.6M contract?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Hedo Turkelo is not a match for the Lakers trade exception correct? Repeatedly hear analysts bring up that possiblity when discussing Howard to LA.

From John Hollinger:

And if you're thinking the trade exception from Dallas will help them swallow Hedo Turkoglu's contract, it doesn't. The Lakers get an exception for $8.9 million; Hedo makes $10.6 million. Lakers fans keep asking me whether the Odom exception can be combined with the earlier exception from dealing Vujacic; it can't. So the best the Lakers can do, as far as helping Orlando's cap situation, is receive Jameer Nelson or J.J. Redick with the Odom exception and then swallow Chris Duhon with the Vujacic exception.

Can it be used to offset a difference in salary if it's a one for one deal - like the Lakers send out, oh, a $4M a year contract and take back a $10.6M contract?

I think trade exceptions must be used straight up. If it could be used in other ways, I believe Hollinger would have said so.

 

[Juxtatarot]

So, after one preseason game, I am thoroughly convinced Taj Gibson will again be better than Carlos Boozer.

And speaking of Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler will further prove how financially wonderful it is for an organization to get a quality player as a late first round draft pick. People often talk about how worthless late first rounders are but at about a million per season, they can be golden.

 

[Who Dat Ninja?]

So, after one preseason game, I am thoroughly convinced Taj Gibson will again be better than Carlos Boozer.

And speaking of Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler will further prove how financially wonderful it is for an organization to get a quality player as a late first round draft pick. People often talk about how worthless late first rounders are but at about a million per season, they can be golden.

Boozer is awful. Best Boozer highlight ever
(7:30 of the clip)

 

[Daywalker]

Hedo Turkelo is not a match for the Lakers trade exception correct? Repeatedly hear analysts bring up that possiblity when discussing Howard to LA.

From John Hollinger:

And if you're thinking the trade exception from Dallas will help them swallow Hedo Turkoglu's contract, it doesn't. The Lakers get an exception for $8.9 million; Hedo makes $10.6 million. Lakers fans keep asking me whether the Odom exception can be combined with the earlier exception from dealing Vujacic; it can't. So the best the Lakers can do, as far as helping Orlando's cap situation, is receive Jameer Nelson or J.J. Redick with the Odom exception and then swallow Chris Duhon with the Vujacic exception.

Can it be used to offset a difference in salary if it's a one for one deal - like the Lakers send out, oh, a $4M a year contract and take back a $10.6M contract?

I think trade exceptions must be used straight up. If it could be used in other ways, I believe Hollinger would have said so.

ESPN had a 5-minute clip with the Kamenesky Bros and Mcminiman. Don't feel like looking up the spelling on those. They all did not realize the trade-exception could not be used for Hedo.

 

[boubucarow]

So, after one preseason game, I am thoroughly convinced Taj Gibson will again be better than Carlos Boozer. And speaking of Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler will further prove how financially wonderful it is for an organization to get a quality player as a late first round draft pick. People often talk about how worthless late first rounders are but at about a million per season, they can be golden.

I am trying to be easy on Boozer since he was constantly hurt last year and this is the first preseason game. However, despite his inability to hit all those short jumpers and hooks last night, the major thing that destroys me is his pick and roll defense. Like so many times last year, he often lets a PG fly by after a screen. As for Gibson, I am just hoping that mid jump shot returns this year.Butler was impressive. His defense was very good and he looked in control on offense. It seems like he has a calmness on floor that James Johnson never grasped. Of course it was only one preseason game but it looks like a plus that Butler is the 11th man on the bench.Speaking of that, I think the Bulls once again have a tremendous chance at the #1 seed. The depth on the team is absolutely silly with only a serviceable 5th big men yet to find. They probably will be able to go 11 or 12 deep with less drop off than any team in the lead. Of course it was the bench mob that pulls the Bulls back into the game in the first half. In such a compressed season format the combo of young legs, continuity, depth, and defense will be a major plus. Of course until the playoffs again.

 

[Steelfan7]

Jeff Green out for season-Heart surgery

Not to make light of Green's condition, but I'm surprised Lebron hasn't opted for heart surgery yet.

 

[Dr. Gobbler]

Jeff Green out for season-Heart surgery

Not to make light of Green's condition, but I'm surprised Lebron hasn't opted for heart surgery yet.

You can't have surgery on something you don't have!

 

[the moops]

Jeff Green out for season-Heart surgery

Not to make light of Green's condition, but I'm surprised Lebron hasn't opted for heart surgery yet.

oofThat is going to really hurt the Celts.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Jeff Green out for season-Heart surgery

Not to make light of Green's condition, but I'm surprised Lebron hasn't opted for heart surgery yet.

oofThat is going to really help the Celts.

fyp

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Jeff Green out for season-Heart surgery

Not to make light of Green's condition, but I'm surprised Lebron hasn't opted for heart surgery yet.

oofThat is going to really help the Celts.

fyp

Never understood the love for Green. He's a mediocre tweener.Hurts the Celts bench. Does it really hurt the team? Meh. Only if you see him as a difference maker or the Celts a threat to win the East (neither of which I see).

 

[Premier]

It hurts the Celts because they're about to embark on a 66-game in a 120-day season, and they just lost one of their young rotation players.

Celts could be in trouble. That's a massive amount of wear and tear to put on Garnett, Pierce, Allen and O'Neal.

 

[the moops]

It hurts the Celts because they're about to embark on a 66-game in a 120-day season, and they just lost one of their young rotation players. Celts could be in trouble. That's a massive amount of wear and tear to put on Garnett, Pierce, Allen and O'Neal.

Yep. Green may be a tweener, and he may never live up to his lottery pick potential, but he was most likely the first guy off the bench for them this year.If Marquis Daniels can stay healthy (unlikely) then he can take the backup SF minutes, and they do have Bass to take the backup PF minutes, but it leaves them very thin at the 3/4 spot.

 

[Steelfan7]

Jeff Green out for season-Heart surgery

Not to make light of Green's condition, but I'm surprised Lebron hasn't opted for heart surgery yet.

oofThat is going to really hurt the Celts.

ESPNBoston is reporting that Green's one-year, $9 million contract is expected to be voided as a result of this medical problem. Boston would retain his rights.Talk about adding insult to his injury.

 

[the moops]

Jeff Green out for season-Heart surgery

Not to make light of Green's condition, but I'm surprised Lebron hasn't opted for heart surgery yet.

oofThat is going to really hurt the Celts.

ESPNBoston is reporting that Green's one-year, $9 million contract is expected to be voided as a result of this medical problem. Boston would retain his rights.Talk about adding insult to his injury.

Without the required physical, he could have very well died at some point. If I am him, while it sucks to forfeit the 9 million, I am pretty OK with not getting paid for a year.

 

[Abraham]

Of course I doubt it would happen, but would the following trade be in the realm of "reasonable" for both teams:

Rockets give:

Lowry, scola, Martin.

Thunder give

Westbrook and sefalosha

Rockets get the young star they covet and a decent sg.

Thunder get a solid pg (and great defender) in Lowry, a sg that can keep harden coming off the bench where he is effective, and an offensive minded pf to rotate with Perkins and ibaka down low.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Of course I doubt it would happen, but would the following trade be in the realm of "reasonable" for both teams:

Rockets give:

Lowry, scola, Martin.

Thunder give

Westbrook and sefalosha

Rockets get the young star they covet and a decent sg.

Thunder get a solid pg (and great defender) in Lowry, a sg that can keep harden coming off the bench where he is effective, and an offensive minded pf to rotate with Perkins and ibaka down low.

Not even close to working based on contracts. $14M too much going to OKC. This would be the only real way to make it work. Asides from contracts, I don't see what OKC gains from this. Ibaka is their PF of the future so they don't need Scola to eat at his minutes for the next 4 years (and Scola really isn't that good). They already have Harden at SG so they don't need Martin at $12M a season to play 20-25 minutes. Then you're left with swapping Lowry for Westbrook... definitely not.

If OKC is going to move Westbrook, they need to look at Rondo.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Of course I doubt it would happen, but would the following trade be in the realm of "reasonable" for both teams:Rockets give:Lowry, scola, Martin. Thunder giveWestbrook and sefaloshaRockets get the young star they covet and a decent sg. Thunder get a solid pg (and great defender) in Lowry, a sg that can keep harden coming off the bench where he is effective, and an offensive minded pf to rotate with Perkins and ibaka down low.

Cmon dude

 

[the moops]

If OKC is going to move Westbrook, they need to look at Rondo.

That deal actually makes too much sense. Celtics get a more dynamic point guard who can score and be the man once Garnett and Allen leave. OKC gets a very solid defender and excellent distributor who wont challenge Durant for alpha title.I think that trade makes both teams better.

 

[Abraham]

Thanks for the reply cliff. I see what you are saying but scola is very good and can play center as well and Martin is better than harden.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Thanks for the reply cliff. I see what you are saying but scola is very good and can play center as well and Martin is better than harden.

Scoring isn't everything. I doubt you'll find anyone who would rather have Martin over Harden especially when you bring their contracts into play. Scola is a middle of the pack PF/C who is overpaid (should be around $8M) and on the downside of his career. OKC taking him eats up their cap space until 14/15. He will not be an easily trade-able asset in next couple years. He is a horrible fit in OKC.

 

[Abraham]

I won't disagree with you about the fit in okc. But we disagree on the usefulness of scola and Martin. Fair enough and thanks for the discussion.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

If OKC is going to move Westbrook, they need to look at Rondo.

That deal actually makes too much sense. Celtics get a more dynamic point guard who can score and be the man once Garnett and Allen leave. OKC gets a very solid defender and excellent distributor who wont challenge Durant for alpha title.I think that trade makes both teams better.

Rondo would be a big downgrade from RWB for OKC.

 

[Abraham]

If OKC is going to move Westbrook, they need to look at Rondo.

That deal actually makes too much sense. Celtics get a more dynamic point guard who can score and be the man once Garnett and Allen leave. OKC gets a very solid defender and excellent distributor who wont challenge Durant for alpha title.I think that trade makes both teams better.

Rondo would be a big downgrade from RWB for OKC.

Rondo is a better defender and can defer alpha dog status. I'm not convinced as some that Westbrook and durant will have trouble coexisting, but I do believe Westbrook is good enough to carry his own team.Imagine if Memphis had him. Regardless, if they max westbrook then it will be hard to keep harden too.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I won't disagree with you about the fit in okc. But we disagree on the usefulness of scola and Martin. Fair enough and thanks for the discussion.

I think you'll find that most people will disagree with you on their usefulness. Scola is 31 and locked into a fairly large contract until he is 35/36. Teams are not looking for that, especially under the new CBA. Martin is a very good scorer who could be a great fit for the right team. No team, unless being run by Isiah Thomas, is going to give up a young stud for a package of Martin/Scola/parts.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Of course I doubt it would happen, but would the following trade be in the realm of "reasonable" for both teams:Rockets give:Lowry, scola, Martin. Thunder giveWestbrook and sefaloshaRockets get the young star they covet and a decent sg. Thunder get a solid pg (and great defender) in Lowry, a sg that can keep harden coming off the bench where he is effective, and an offensive minded pf to rotate with Perkins and ibaka down low.

Rockets fan? OKC is a magnificently built team. No reason to move a young stud PG for that garbage (And I like Scola. Martin/Lowry are bit pieces on a championship team....neither starters). And Harden is far superior to Martin. Just because Martin scores a lot on garbage teams doesn't make him a better player. Harden would be doing that and then some in a similar situation. Harden's a Top 50 NBA player....Martin is not.

 

[Premier]

Of course I doubt it would happen, but would the following trade be in the realm of "reasonable" for both teams:Rockets give:Lowry, scola, Martin. Thunder giveWestbrook and sefaloshaRockets get the young star they covet and a decent sg. Thunder get a solid pg (and great defender) in Lowry, a sg that can keep harden coming off the bench where he is effective, and an offensive minded pf to rotate with Perkins and ibaka down low.

You're really terrible at trade proposals.

 

[Britney Spears]

Of course I doubt it would happen, but would the following trade be in the realm of "reasonable" for both teams:Rockets give:Lowry, scola, Martin. Thunder giveWestbrook and sefaloshaRockets get the young star they covet and a decent sg. Thunder get a solid pg (and great defender) in Lowry, a sg that can keep harden coming off the bench where he is effective, and an offensive minded pf to rotate with Perkins and ibaka down low.

Cmon dude

Good posting!

 

[Abraham]

I won't disagree with you about the fit in okc. But we disagree on the usefulness of scola and Martin. Fair enough and thanks for the discussion.

I think you'll find that most people will disagree with you on their usefulness. Scola is 31 and locked into a fairly large contract until he is 35/36. Teams are not looking for that, especially under the new CBA. Martin is a very good scorer who could be a great fit for the right team. No team, unless being run by Isiah Thomas, is going to give up a young stud for a package of Martin/Scola/parts.

Demps was prepared to give up chr

 

[Abraham]

I won't disagree with you about the fit in okc. But we disagree on the usefulness of scola and Martin. Fair enough and thanks for the discussion.

I think you'll find that most people will disagree with you on their usefulness. Scola is 31 and locked into a fairly large contract until he is 35/36. Teams are not looking for that, especially under the new CBA. Martin is a very good scorer who could be a great fit for the right team. No team, unless being run by Isiah Thomas, is going to give up a young stud for a package of Martin/Scola/parts.

Demps was prepared to give up chrIs Paul for that Package minus Lowry. MartIn is 27 and top 20 in per if I recall correctly. Scola is 31 but doesn't have a ton of miles if I recall correctly. I'll judge by the replies that I'm an idiot for suggesting this trade, but I do think most folks underrate Lowry, scola, and Martin. That core has been a .500 team in the southwest despite having no offense out of the 3 and a 6'4 guy playIng center.

 

[Instinctive]

You guys HATE Kevin Martin. He's a defensive liability (and that might be going easy on him) but scoring is the hardest part of the NBA, and the amount of fouls he draws each game is unparalleled.

If I were running OKC, I'd swap RWB for Rondo+ (and I think I could get that too). If I could somehow teach Rondo to shoot when he's wide open, show everyone that KD gets the ball in crunch time, reunite Perkins and Rondo, and pick and roll Ibaka..........

 

[Native]

Baron Davis have anything left in the tank? He cleared waivers and in an FA. Rumors swirling that hes going to the Knicks. At the moment they have NOONE so this cant be a bad move right?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You guys HATE Kevin Martin. He's a defensive liability (and that might be going easy on him) but scoring is the hardest part of the NBA, and the amount of fouls he draws each game is unparalleled.If I were running OKC, I'd swap RWB for Rondo+ (and I think I could get that too). If I could somehow teach Rondo to shoot when he's wide open, show everyone that KD gets the ball in crunch time, reunite Perkins and Rondo, and pick and roll Ibaka..........

No hate for Martin. He is just a one-dimensional player. On a team that needs scoring and could cover up for him on the defensive end, he'd be great ie Boston or SA.

 

[Instinctive]

You guys HATE Kevin Martin. He's a defensive liability (and that might be going easy on him) but scoring is the hardest part of the NBA, and the amount of fouls he draws each game is unparalleled.If I were running OKC, I'd swap RWB for Rondo+ (and I think I could get that too). If I could somehow teach Rondo to shoot when he's wide open, show everyone that KD gets the ball in crunch time, reunite Perkins and Rondo, and pick and roll Ibaka..........

No hate for Martin. He is just a one-dimensional player. On a team that needs scoring and could cover up for him on the defensive end, he'd be great ie Boston or SA.

Somebody said that they'd prefer Harden to Martin, and that Martin's not even a top 50 guy in the league. That's HATE. I don't know exactly where I would put him, but gut feeling says I'd have him around 36.ETA: I think he'd be perfect in Chicago

 

[EYLive]

I'll just post this now so I won't need to do it 1,000 during the season:

"These refs friggin' SUCK!!"

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You guys HATE Kevin Martin. He's a defensive liability (and that might be going easy on him) but scoring is the hardest part of the NBA, and the amount of fouls he draws each game is unparalleled.

If I were running OKC, I'd swap RWB for Rondo+ (and I think I could get that too). If I could somehow teach Rondo to shoot when he's wide open, show everyone that KD gets the ball in crunch time, reunite Perkins and Rondo, and pick and roll Ibaka..........

No hate for Martin. He is just a one-dimensional player. On a team that needs scoring and could cover up for him on the defensive end, he'd be great ie Boston or SA.

Somebody said that they'd prefer Harden to Martin, and that Martin's not even a top 50 guy in the league. That's HATE. I don't know exactly where I would put him, but gut feeling says I'd have him around 36.ETA: I think he'd be perfect in Chicago

I said that. Harden offers more than just scoring. He is also younger, cheaper and under contract for longer. You won't get far in the NBA paying a $12M to a SG that can do nothing but score.Agreed. Martin would be a great fit in Chicago.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

You guys HATE Kevin Martin. He's a defensive liability (and that might be going easy on him) but scoring is the hardest part of the NBA, and the amount of fouls he draws each game is unparalleled.

If I were running OKC, I'd swap RWB for Rondo+ (and I think I could get that too). If I could somehow teach Rondo to shoot when he's wide open, show everyone that KD gets the ball in crunch time, reunite Perkins and Rondo, and pick and roll Ibaka..........

No hate for Martin. He is just a one-dimensional player. On a team that needs scoring and could cover up for him on the defensive end, he'd be great ie Boston or SA.

Somebody said that they'd prefer Harden to Martin, and that Martin's not even a top 50 guy in the league. That's HATE. I don't know exactly where I would put him, but gut feeling says I'd have him around 36.ETA: I think he'd be perfect in Chicago

I said that. Harden offers more than just scoring. He is also younger, cheaper and under contract for longer. You won't get far in the NBA paying a $12M to a SG that can do nothing but score.Agreed. Martin would be a great fit in Chicago.

I said that as well (Harden >>> Martin)Martin is what he is. A 1 dimensional scorer. There's a place for that. That place is not OKC with Durant/Westbrook/Harden.

 

[Instinctive]

You guys HATE Kevin Martin. He's a defensive liability (and that might be going easy on him) but scoring is the hardest part of the NBA, and the amount of fouls he draws each game is unparalleled.

If I were running OKC, I'd swap RWB for Rondo+ (and I think I could get that too). If I could somehow teach Rondo to shoot when he's wide open, show everyone that KD gets the ball in crunch time, reunite Perkins and Rondo, and pick and roll Ibaka..........

No hate for Martin. He is just a one-dimensional player. On a team that needs scoring and could cover up for him on the defensive end, he'd be great ie Boston or SA.

Somebody said that they'd prefer Harden to Martin, and that Martin's not even a top 50 guy in the league. That's HATE. I don't know exactly where I would put him, but gut feeling says I'd have him around 36.ETA: I think he'd be perfect in Chicago

I said that. Harden offers more than just scoring. He is also younger, cheaper and under contract for longer. You won't get far in the NBA paying a $12M to a SG that can do nothing but score.Agreed. Martin would be a great fit in Chicago.

Younger cheaper, and under contract for longer are not factors at all to which one is better. Which one you'd rather have for your team? Sure. But not which one is better. I too would rather have Harden with his contract and age over Martin. But today, right now, Martin is a better player.When the hell did James Harden become a superstar defender? He is what he is, a good 6th man who can score - nowhere near as well as Martin (who draws WAY more fouls than any other player in the NBA - invaluable) scores.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You guys HATE Kevin Martin. He's a defensive liability (and that might be going easy on him) but scoring is the hardest part of the NBA, and the amount of fouls he draws each game is unparalleled.

If I were running OKC, I'd swap RWB for Rondo+ (and I think I could get that too). If I could somehow teach Rondo to shoot when he's wide open, show everyone that KD gets the ball in crunch time, reunite Perkins and Rondo, and pick and roll Ibaka..........

No hate for Martin. He is just a one-dimensional player. On a team that needs scoring and could cover up for him on the defensive end, he'd be great ie Boston or SA.

Somebody said that they'd prefer Harden to Martin, and that Martin's not even a top 50 guy in the league. That's HATE. I don't know exactly where I would put him, but gut feeling says I'd have him around 36.ETA: I think he'd be perfect in Chicago

I said that. Harden offers more than just scoring. He is also younger, cheaper and under contract for longer. You won't get far in the NBA paying a $12M to a SG that can do nothing but score.Agreed. Martin would be a great fit in Chicago.

Younger cheaper, and under contract for longer are not factors at all to which one is better. Which one you'd rather have for your team? Sure. But not which one is better. I too would rather have Harden with his contract and age over Martin. But today, right now, Martin is a better player.When the hell did James Harden become a superstar defender? He is what he is, a good 6th man who can score - nowhere near as well as Martin (who draws WAY more fouls than any other player in the NBA - invaluable) scores.

And that is all Martin should be as well. The only difference is that Martin has played for #### teams his entire career so he has had the opportunity to dominate the ball and score more. Harden has/is/will be 3rd on OKC so unless a trade is made so he will never be a 20+ppg scorer. If Martin is you top dog, you aren't winning ####. There are plenty of SGs in the league who offer what Martin does ie Ginobli, Ellis, Johnson, Mathews, Terry, Derozan, Crawford, Afflalo. Yes, he is very efficient in his scoring but that is pretty much his only positive attribute.

 

[pollardsvision]

You guys HATE Kevin Martin. He's a defensive liability (and that might be going easy on him) but scoring is the hardest part of the NBA, and the amount of fouls he draws each game is unparalleled.

If I were running OKC, I'd swap RWB for Rondo+ (and I think I could get that too). If I could somehow teach Rondo to shoot when he's wide open, show everyone that KD gets the ball in crunch time, reunite Perkins and Rondo, and pick and roll Ibaka..........

No hate for Martin. He is just a one-dimensional player. On a team that needs scoring and could cover up for him on the defensive end, he'd be great ie Boston or SA.

Somebody said that they'd prefer Harden to Martin, and that Martin's not even a top 50 guy in the league. That's HATE. I don't know exactly where I would put him, but gut feeling says I'd have him around 36.ETA: I think he'd be perfect in Chicago

I said that. Harden offers more than just scoring. He is also younger, cheaper and under contract for longer. You won't get far in the NBA paying a $12M to a SG that can do nothing but score.Agreed. Martin would be a great fit in Chicago.

Younger cheaper, and under contract for longer are not factors at all to which one is better. Which one you'd rather have for your team? Sure. But not which one is better. I too would rather have Harden with his contract and age over Martin. But today, right now, Martin is a better player.When the hell did James Harden become a superstar defender? He is what he is, a good 6th man who can score - nowhere near as well as Martin (who draws WAY more fouls than any other player in the NBA - invaluable) scores.

And that is all Martin should be as well. The only difference is that Martin has played for #### teams his entire career so he has had the opportunity to dominate the ball and score more. Harden has/is/will be 3rd on OKC so unless a trade is made so he will never be a 20+ppg scorer. If Martin is you top dog, you aren't winning ####. There are plenty of SGs in the league who offer what Martin does ie Ginobli, Ellis, Johnson, Mathews, Terry, Derozan, Crawford, Afflalo. Yes, he is very efficient in his scoring but that is pretty much his only positive attribute.

What are you winning if Harden's your top dog?Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but "you aren't winning #### if _______ is your top dog" describes all but about 10 players in this league.

 

[thecatch]

You guys HATE Kevin Martin. He's a defensive liability (and that might be going easy on him) but scoring is the hardest part of the NBA, and the amount of fouls he draws each game is unparalleled.

If I were running OKC, I'd swap RWB for Rondo+ (and I think I could get that too). If I could somehow teach Rondo to shoot when he's wide open, show everyone that KD gets the ball in crunch time, reunite Perkins and Rondo, and pick and roll Ibaka..........

No hate for Martin. He is just a one-dimensional player. On a team that needs scoring and could cover up for him on the defensive end, he'd be great ie Boston or SA.

Somebody said that they'd prefer Harden to Martin, and that Martin's not even a top 50 guy in the league. That's HATE. I don't know exactly where I would put him, but gut feeling says I'd have him around 36.ETA: I think he'd be perfect in Chicago

I said that. Harden offers more than just scoring. He is also younger, cheaper and under contract for longer. You won't get far in the NBA paying a $12M to a SG that can do nothing but score.Agreed. Martin would be a great fit in Chicago.

Younger cheaper, and under contract for longer are not factors at all to which one is better. Which one you'd rather have for your team? Sure. But not which one is better. I too would rather have Harden with his contract and age over Martin. But today, right now, Martin is a better player.When the hell did James Harden become a superstar defender? He is what he is, a good 6th man who can score - nowhere near as well as Martin (who draws WAY more fouls than any other player in the NBA - invaluable) scores.

And that is all Martin should be as well. The only difference is that Martin has played for #### teams his entire career so he has had the opportunity to dominate the ball and score more. Harden has/is/will be 3rd on OKC so unless a trade is made so he will never be a 20+ppg scorer. If Martin is you top dog, you aren't winning ####. There are plenty of SGs in the league who offer what Martin does ie Ginobli, Ellis, Johnson, Mathews, Terry, Derozan, Crawford, Afflalo. Yes, he is very efficient in his scoring but that is pretty much his only positive attribute.

IMO, Martin is a top 50 player and a solid starter on most playoff teams.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You guys HATE Kevin Martin. He's a defensive liability (and that might be going easy on him) but scoring is the hardest part of the NBA, and the amount of fouls he draws each game is unparalleled.

If I were running OKC, I'd swap RWB for Rondo+ (and I think I could get that too). If I could somehow teach Rondo to shoot when he's wide open, show everyone that KD gets the ball in crunch time, reunite Perkins and Rondo, and pick and roll Ibaka..........

No hate for Martin. He is just a one-dimensional player. On a team that needs scoring and could cover up for him on the defensive end, he'd be great ie Boston or SA.

Somebody said that they'd prefer Harden to Martin, and that Martin's not even a top 50 guy in the league. That's HATE. I don't know exactly where I would put him, but gut feeling says I'd have him around 36.ETA: I think he'd be perfect in Chicago

I said that. Harden offers more than just scoring. He is also younger, cheaper and under contract for longer. You won't get far in the NBA paying a $12M to a SG that can do nothing but score.Agreed. Martin would be a great fit in Chicago.

Younger cheaper, and under contract for longer are not factors at all to which one is better. Which one you'd rather have for your team? Sure. But not which one is better. I too would rather have Harden with his contract and age over Martin. But today, right now, Martin is a better player.When the hell did James Harden become a superstar defender? He is what he is, a good 6th man who can score - nowhere near as well as Martin (who draws WAY more fouls than any other player in the NBA - invaluable) scores.

And that is all Martin should be as well. The only difference is that Martin has played for #### teams his entire career so he has had the opportunity to dominate the ball and score more. Harden has/is/will be 3rd on OKC so unless a trade is made so he will never be a 20+ppg scorer. If Martin is you top dog, you aren't winning ####. There are plenty of SGs in the league who offer what Martin does ie Ginobli, Ellis, Johnson, Mathews, Terry, Derozan, Crawford, Afflalo. Yes, he is very efficient in his scoring but that is pretty much his only positive attribute.

What are you winning if Harden's your top dog?Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but "you aren't winning #### if _______ is your top dog" describes all but about 10 players in this league.

Agreed. Probably should have left that out.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Martin ranked 63rd in assist ratio last year and 50th in rebound rate for SGs. Terrible.

Good scorer. Nothing else. Might crack the top 50 but barely.

 

[the moops]

Baron Davis is signing with the Knicks.

 

[biggamer3]

Thrilled as a Knicks fan with this signing

 

[the moops]

Thrilled as a Knicks fan with this signing

Yea. When he gets healthy, he gives them a nice looking team.DavisFieldsMeloAmareChandler

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Thrilled as a Knicks fan with this signing

Yea. When he gets healthy, he gives them a nice looking team starting lineup.Davis

Fields

Melo

Amare

Chandler

Their bench might be the worst in the league.

 

[the moops]

Thrilled as a Knicks fan with this signing

Yea. When he gets healthy, he gives them a nice looking team starting lineup.Davis

Fields

Melo

Amare

Chandler

Their bench might be the worst in the league.

Well, their wings and guards are decent (Bibby, Walker, Douglas, Shumpert) but yea, it is a sorry collection of people backing up the bigs (Jeffries/Balkman/Harrelson/Jerome Jordan)

 

[biggamer3]

Thrilled as a Knicks fan with this signing

Yea. When he gets healthy, he gives them a nice looking team starting lineup.Davis

Fields

Melo

Amare

Chandler

Their bench might be the worst in the league.

I actually really like Iman, dude has skills. Douglas is very decent off bench. They need to get some tough minutes from Jorts or Jerome Jordan.

Their bench isn't great but its better then most teams especially the lakers and Celtics