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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

'tommyGunZ said:
'TobiasFunke said:
Wide open, feet set, corner shot... all you forgot to mention was the most differentiating factor of the moment, pressure.
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33rd playoff game of Steve Blake's career. Over 800 minutes of action, some of which obviously was crunch time action, and has shot 41% from three (31-95) during those playoffs minutes. Although I think that was his first playoff game-winning attempt,
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And your evidence for the pressure affecting him is? (Hint: "Common Sense" in the wrong answer)
 
'Ghost Rider said:
Honestly, I think Brown erred by not having two plays called for them when they took their timeout with 18 seconds left. Considering they were having a tough team inbounding, and knowing OKC had a foul to give, taking their last timeout with 6+ seconds left put them in a position where they Artest had to throw it to Blake or else risk turning it over on the 5-second violation. A smart coach would have had his team ready to run another play without having to take another timeout if/when OKC committed their foul to give.And I think Kenny Smith nailed it last night when he said it would have made a lot more sense for Bryant to attack immediately once he got the ball with 18 seconds left. Force them to commit the foul to give immediately or else take a shot, get the lead, or miss the shot, foul, and then at least have another shot to win or tie (depending on if OKC hits one or both of their FTs).
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I agree about the wasted timeout, and Kobe needing to get a shot up much sooner, but I think the shot they ended up with was about as good as you could hope for in that situation. I was surprised he was so open.
 
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'Ghost Rider said:
Honestly, I think Brown erred by not having two plays called for them when they took their timeout with 18 seconds left. Considering they were having a tough team inbounding, and knowing OKC had a foul to give, taking their last timeout with 6+ seconds left put them in a position where they Artest had to throw it to Blake or else risk turning it over on the 5-second violation. A smart coach would have had his team ready to run another play without having to take another timeout if/when OKC committed their foul to give.And I think Kenny Smith nailed it last night when he said it would have made a lot more sense for Bryant to attack immediately once he got the ball with 18 seconds left. Force them to commit the foul to give immediately or else take a shot and get the lead, or if you miss the shot, foul and then at least have another shot to win or tie (depending on if OKC hits one or both of their FTs).
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I agree completely that it was a tactical error on Brown/Kobe/the Laker's part. Kobe should have attacked immediately and made the Thunder foul right off the bat. Then get the best shot you can get as quick as possible. You're only down one, if you miss and don't get the rebound you foul immediately, worse case scenario you're down three at that point with a chance to tie. The fact that Blake ended up getting a great shot doesn't justify anything. Truth be told the only reason Blake got such a good look is Westbrook basically fell asleep and forgot Blake was on the court. Westbrook is lucky that didn't go in.
 
Can we just all agree that some people believe in "the clutch" as a concept and some don't? It's sort of like religion. Asking a believer to provide stats or data or whatever is like asking a religious person to prove through science that God exists. Not possible.

 
'Moe. said:
Can we just all agree that some people believe in "the clutch" as a concept and some don't? It's sort of like religion. Asking a believer to provide stats or data or whatever is like asking a religious person to prove through science that God exists. Not possible.
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Its pretty easy to prove those guys are wrong though. Example: Link
In his playoff career, the Los Angeles Lakers’ Kobe Bryant is 7-for-27 on game-tying or go-ahead shots in the final 24 seconds of the fourth quarter and overtime. That’s a field goal percentage of 25.9, which is below the league average of 27.2 percent, and pales in comparison to his teammates over that span. Other Lakers are 9-for-21 (42.9 percent) on such shots, even after Steve Blake's miss in Game 2 against the Oklahoma City Thunder.

In his 16-year career (including postseason), Bryant has made 71 of 226 field goal attempts (31.4 percent) in one-possession games in the last 24 seconds of the fourth quarter and overtime. That ranks 57th among 114 players who have at least 30 attempts in those situations over that span. The league average is 31.6 percent on such shots over that span.

So, should Blake have taken the last shot?

According to Synergy, Blake was 40-for-88 (45.5 percent) on unguarded catch-and-shoots during the regular season. In the playoffs, Blake was 12-for-23 before his final shot. (In Game 2, he was 1-for-4 on those shots before the last attempt.)

According to NBA.com, Blake was 29-of-74 (39.2 percent) on corner 3's this season, including the playoffs, including 16-for-35 on 3-pointers from the right corner. (Both numbers include the final miss in Game 2.)

Blake now is 12-for-24 in the playoffs on unguarded catch-and-shoots. The league average in this year's playoffs on these shots is 38.9 percent. Blake’s 50.0 shooting percentage on unguarded catch-and-shoot attempts is tied for seventh among 43 players with at least 10 such field goal attempts this postseason.

During the regular season, the league average on unguarded catch-and-shoots was 40.6 percent, so Blake was above average in the regular season as well.

No matter how you look at it, it was a pretty good percentage shot considering the situation.
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But hey, "common sense" says Kobe should be taking a contested shot as usual.
 
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'Moe. said:
Can we just all agree that some people believe in "the clutch" as a concept and some don't? It's sort of like religion. Asking a believer to provide stats or data or whatever is like asking a religious person to prove through science that God exists. Not possible.
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What definition of "clutch" are you talking about? If you're talking about folks who believe certain players have special fairy dust that turns them "ON FIRE" a la '90s NBA JAM, I agree it's like religion.If you're talking about those of us who believe that certain individuals have a mentality and lots of experience that makes them less inclined to be effected by pressure than guys who have less of a scorer's mentality and far less experience, then no, I don't think it's like religion.
 
'tommyGunZ said:
'Moe. said:
Can we just all agree that some people believe in "the clutch" as a concept and some don't? It's sort of like religion. Asking a believer to provide stats or data or whatever is like asking a religious person to prove through science that God exists. Not possible.
Click to expand...
What definition of "clutch" are you talking about? If you're talking about folks who believe certain players have special fairy dust that turns them "ON FIRE" a la '90s NBA JAM, I agree it's like religion.If you're talking about those of us who believe that certain individuals have a mentality and lots of experience that makes them less inclined to be effected by pressure than guys who have less of a scorer's mentality and far less experience, then no, I don't think it's like religion.
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But then why does the 'deity' of clutch shoot below the league average?
 
'Cliff Clavin said:
'tommyGunZ said:
'Moe. said:
Can we just all agree that some people believe in "the clutch" as a concept and some don't? It's sort of like religion. Asking a believer to provide stats or data or whatever is like asking a religious person to prove through science that God exists. Not possible.
Click to expand...
What definition of "clutch" are you talking about? If you're talking about folks who believe certain players have special fairy dust that turns them "ON FIRE" a la '90s NBA JAM, I agree it's like religion.If you're talking about those of us who believe that certain individuals have a mentality and lots of experience that makes them less inclined to be effected by pressure than guys who have less of a scorer's mentality and far less experience, then no, I don't think it's like religion.
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But then why does the 'deity' of clutch shoot below the league average?
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Do you believe all clutch shots are equal?
 
'tommyGunZ said:
'Cliff Clavin said:
'tommyGunZ said:
'Moe. said:
Can we just all agree that some people believe in "the clutch" as a concept and some don't? It's sort of like religion. Asking a believer to provide stats or data or whatever is like asking a religious person to prove through science that God exists. Not possible.
Click to expand...
What definition of "clutch" are you talking about? If you're talking about folks who believe certain players have special fairy dust that turns them "ON FIRE" a la '90s NBA JAM, I agree it's like religion.If you're talking about those of us who believe that certain individuals have a mentality and lots of experience that makes them less inclined to be effected by pressure than guys who have less of a scorer's mentality and far less experience, then no, I don't think it's like religion.
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But then why does the 'deity' of clutch shoot below the league average?
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Do you believe all clutch shots are equal?
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Wait, so you're saying that Kobe takes harder shots in the clutch than everyone else? Why is that?
 
'tommyGunZ said:
'Cliff Clavin said:
'tommyGunZ said:
'Moe. said:
Can we just all agree that some people believe in "the clutch" as a concept and some don't? It's sort of like religion. Asking a believer to provide stats or data or whatever is like asking a religious person to prove through science that God exists. Not possible.
Click to expand...
What definition of "clutch" are you talking about? If you're talking about folks who believe certain players have special fairy dust that turns them "ON FIRE" a la '90s NBA JAM, I agree it's like religion.If you're talking about those of us who believe that certain individuals have a mentality and lots of experience that makes them less inclined to be effected by pressure than guys who have less of a scorer's mentality and far less experience, then no, I don't think it's like religion.
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But then why does the 'deity' of clutch shoot below the league average?
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Do you believe all clutch shots are equal?
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Kobe does.
 
Every day the same BS.

A wide open shot by a player like S. Blake or M. Chalmers is a higher % shot then Kobe or Lebron forcing a shot while being double-teamed.

Geez if Kobe/Lebron can get a good lock then yes shoot it but forcing a shot as oppossed to passing to a wide-open S. Blake is not shrinking from the moment.

Kobe/Lebron/Carmelo are not close to MJ. Stop trying to model your game after him during the most important possession of the game.

 
'tommyGunZ said:
'Moe. said:
Can we just all agree that some people believe in "the clutch" as a concept and some don't? It's sort of like religion. Asking a believer to provide stats or data or whatever is like asking a religious person to prove through science that God exists. Not possible.
Click to expand...
What definition of "clutch" are you talking about? If you're talking about folks who believe certain players have special fairy dust that turns them "ON FIRE" a la '90s NBA JAM, I agree it's like religion.If you're talking about those of us who believe that certain individuals have a mentality and lots of experience that makes them less inclined to be effected by pressure than guys who have less of a scorer's mentality and far less experience, then no, I don't think it's like religion.
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That's fine if you believe that but there is no way to quantify it. It's an opinion. You can't prove or disprove it either way.
 
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'Moe. said:
'tommyGunZ said:
'Moe. said:
Can we just all agree that some people believe in "the clutch" as a concept and some don't? It's sort of like religion. Asking a believer to provide stats or data or whatever is like asking a religious person to prove through science that God exists. Not possible.
Click to expand...
What definition of "clutch" are you talking about? If you're talking about folks who believe certain players have special fairy dust that turns them "ON FIRE" a la '90s NBA JAM, I agree it's like religion.If you're talking about those of us who believe that certain individuals have a mentality and lots of experience that makes them less inclined to be effected by pressure than guys who have less of a scorer's mentality and far less experience, then no, I don't think it's like religion.
Click to expand...
That's fine if you believe that but there is no way to quantify it. It's an opinion. It's not prove or disprove it either way.
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Sort of. I agree there's no way to quantify it. I think it's more of just a basic acknowledgement that pressure exists. Some in this thread seem to suggest it doesn't.
 
I got an invite to go to a Thunder game when I'm in OKC (assuming they beat LAL). What's the shark move on schtick at the game? I know I'm already refusing to wear one of those ugly, ill fitting blue/white shirts. I never wear sports jerseys but maybe a Seattle Supersonics shirt of some sort?

 
'TobiasFunke said:
There's the Abbott study from last year that showed that the best offenses on the clutch as compared to their regular success rate are those that revolve around a pass-first PG (Paul) and the worst are those that revolve around a star (Bryant). It's really obvious. It's not two schools of thought. It's right vs. wrong.
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Abbott's analysis from earlier this month:
The Lakers have by far the best crunch time plus/minus this season (plus-79, the Pacers are second at plus-65). Pau Gasol (plus-78) has been their biggest individual star, followed closely by Andrew Bynum (plus-74). Kobe Bryant ranks third at plus-58. The Lakers achieved this number with the NBA's second-best clutch offense (behind the Magic) and the eighth-best defense.
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The Lakers are 1 of only 3 teams that have a positive crunch time +/- number for each of the past 5 years.
 
'TobiasFunke said:
'matuski said:
Wide open, feet set, corner shot... all you forgot to mention was the most differentiating factor of the moment, pressure.
Click to expand...
33rd playoff game of Steve Blake's career. Over 800 minutes of action, some of which obviously was crunch time action, and has shot 41% from three (31-95) during those playoffs minutes. Although I think that was his first playoff game-winning attempt,
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You seem to be placing a value on the pressure of just playing in a big game in college or pros. I am talking about the pressure of a bigtime moment, the last shot, in a big game. Two utterly different scenarios.

You know this is my basis for thinking otherwise as I've explained it ad nauseum. You continue to ignore the fact that you can throw every stat out the window in this moment, the reason that not one person watching that game thought Blake's shot was going in, the reason if Kobe shot it you'd have been holding your breath. The reason you stood up with your hands in the air before the ball was halfway to the hoop when Jordan let it go.

:deadhorse:

 
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'matuski said:
'TobiasFunke said:
Wide open, feet set, corner shot... all you forgot to mention was the most differentiating factor of the moment, pressure.
Click to expand...
33rd playoff game of Steve Blake's career. Over 800 minutes of action, some of which obviously was crunch time action, and has shot 41% from three (31-95) during those playoffs minutes. Although I think that was his first playoff game-winning attempt,
Click to expand...
:wall:
 
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'tommyGunZ said:
'TobiasFunke said:
There's the Abbott study from last year that showed that the best offenses on the clutch as compared to their regular success rate are those that revolve around a pass-first PG (Paul) and the worst are those that revolve around a star (Bryant). It's really obvious. It's not two schools of thought. It's right vs. wrong.
Click to expand...
Abbott's analysis from earlier this month:
The Lakers have by far the best crunch time plus/minus this season (plus-79, the Pacers are second at plus-65). Pau Gasol (plus-78) has been their biggest individual star, followed closely by Andrew Bynum (plus-74). Kobe Bryant ranks third at plus-58. The Lakers achieved this number with the NBA's second-best clutch offense (behind the Magic) and the eighth-best defense.
Click to expand...
The Lakers are 1 of only 3 teams that have a positive crunch time +/- number for each of the past 5 years.
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After a long ### article blasting Kobe for not passing, stagnating the offense, blah blah blah.... his stats say Carmelo is the king in crunch time. Now read the first part again. :lmao:
 
'Moe. said:
Can we just all agree that some people believe in "the clutch" as a concept and some don't? It's sort of like religion. Asking a believer to provide stats or data or whatever is like asking a religious person to prove through science that God exists. Not possible.
Click to expand...
It appears your request has been denied. Please try again later.
 
Why was Blake in their in the last few minutes in the first place? It's because the starting PG on this team, Ramon Sessions, has been terrible in two playoff series. He's awful on defense. He's not a threat to shoot an open jumper on offense. His passing is nothing special either.

When Sessions first arrived, like a lot of Laker fans I was mesmerized by his speed- we hadn't seen anyone that fast in a Laker uniform in a long time. But speed seems to be all Sessions has to offer.

When this season ends, the main problem that existed last summer is still here: the Lakers need a point guard.

 
Pacers need to stop being soft and finish hard at the basket. Miami can't stop their size, but the refs are allowing tons of contact inside. Indy has no choice but to go strong and throw it down

 
'tommyGunZ said:
'TobiasFunke said:
There's the Abbott study from last year that showed that the best offenses on the clutch as compared to their regular success rate are those that revolve around a pass-first PG (Paul) and the worst are those that revolve around a star (Bryant). It's really obvious. It's not two schools of thought. It's right vs. wrong.
Click to expand...
Abbott's analysis from earlier this month:
The Lakers have by far the best crunch time plus/minus this season (plus-79, the Pacers are second at plus-65). Pau Gasol (plus-78) has been their biggest individual star, followed closely by Andrew Bynum (plus-74). Kobe Bryant ranks third at plus-58. The Lakers achieved this number with the NBA's second-best clutch offense (behind the Magic) and the eighth-best defense.
Click to expand...
The Lakers are 1 of only 3 teams that have a positive crunch time +/- number for each of the past 5 years.
Click to expand...
They've also been the best team on the whole over the last five years so that makes sense. I do find it interesting that Kobe was +58 while Pau and Bynum were +78 and +74, respectively. Do you have any idea what their total minutes were in crunch time?
 
People can criticize Lebron (and I will), but Wade is KILLING the Heat. The only way he can score is to drive to the hoop and hope for a foul.

 
'GroveDiesel said:
People can criticize Lebron (and I will), but Wade is KILLING the Heat. The only way he can score is to drive to the hoop and hope for a foul.
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you mean 1-10, 0 assists, and 4 TO's isn't helpful?GO PACERS!
 
The Heat should just clear out and go with the Chalmers/Anthony pick-and-roll. It seems to be their most effect play this quarter.

 
Seriously, how overrated is Dwayne Wade? At what point does he start catching major heat for the Heat underachieving? Does he get a pass cause he already has a ring, one he only got cause Stern bent Dallas over back in '06?

 
I swear, this looks like the Cavs from three years ago: James having to try to do it all himself, because he is getting almost no help. He ain't perfect, but his teammates are letting him down big time. Makes you wonder about the makeup of this supporting cast, given their inability to step up at all in the wake of Bosh's absence.

 
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'Ghost Rider said:
I swear, this looks like the Cavs from three years ago: James having to try to do it all himself, because he is getting almost no help. He ain't perfect, but his teammates are letting him down big time. Makes you wonder about the makeup of this supporting cast, given their inability to step up at all in the wake of Bosh's absence.
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But I thought part of LeBron's greatness was his ability to make those around him better? Battier, Chalmers, DWade, and Hasleem are not bums.
 
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'Ministry of Pain said:
'Ghost Rider said:
Seriously, how overrated is Dwayne Wade? At what point does he start catching major heat for the Heat underachieving? Does he get a pass cause he already has a ring, one he only got cause Stern bent Dallas over back in '06?
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:goodposting:He's lost a step at this point.
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I'd attribute his play more to a combination of Indiana's defenders (particularly their length, which has bothered Wade) and Wade's immaturity.
 
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