*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)

[oneohh]

Essentially, Cleveland is already pot committed for $150 million. IMO, there's no realistic trade that justifies the Cavs not seeing this all the way through. It's either LBJ or bust.

Would Cuban S/T Dirk, along with some add ons like Butler or Terry, for LBJ?

That's not realistic, imo. That would, however, be a sign and trade I would do, but no way is Cuban is trading Dirk to anyone.

Not even for elBJ? You're kidding, right?

LeBron isn't going to Dallas if Dirk's not there unless they first made another move to get someone like Chris Paul.

Yeah forgot about that part.

 

[Balco]

saw the knicks are gonna offer joe johnson a max contract on thursday

He has a history with Dantoni, but I am interested in the length of the deal. I don't believe Johnson is a max player, but if the deal is 4 years or less, that it wouldn't be horrible for the Knicks. If they sign Johnson, I wonder if their next play is for Amare. THey still have quite a hole at point guard, but Johnson and Amare would make them very formidable.\

Johnson & Amare is nothing more than a #4 seed. Hawks had more talent on their team. Thats not a chamionship team so why bother. Joe Johnson is a decent player but not worth a max deal. This would be Allan Houston all over again.

Joe Johnson is a lot better player than Allen Houston was. I think the Allan Houston deal was the worst max contract given out. A one dimensional scorer given a max deal? Made zero sense.And who knows what Johnson and Amare would be? That is why they play the games. D'Antoni will have two players that fit his O to go along with some interesting young talent.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

He's a piece of garbage because he played out his contract for a crap franchise, then seems to not want to spend his entire career in Cleveland?

the franchise that has kissed his butt for the last 7 years? The one that has brought in player after player, with his approval, in an attempt to surround him with talent? The one with a nice arena with a giant billboard of him across the street? The one that built a beautiful new practice facility when and where he wanted? the one with an owner who is more than willing to spend money on any aspect of improving the team/franchise? the one with fans who pack the arena every night and buy up his 15 different home/road/retro/wine/gold/blue jerseys? the one that has hamstrung itself salary-wise trying to please him over the last 3 years without any type of commitment from him in return? But he's supposed to go play for Miami, who just wasted 2 of their francise player's prime years middling in a weak conference when they could have made moves to improve their team? please enlighten me, oh wise one, how exactly is Cleveland a crap franchise?oh, i know... it's IN CLEVELAND. hahahahahhahah. no seriously, i'm waiting.

 

[tommyGunZ]

He's a piece of garbage because he played out his contract for a crap franchise, then seems to not want to spend his entire career in Cleveland?

the franchise that has kissed his butt for the last 7 years? The one that has brought in player after player, with his approval, in an attempt to surround him with talent? The one with a nice arena with a giant billboard of him across the street? The one that built a beautiful new practice facility when and where he wanted? the one with an owner who is more than willing to spend money on any aspect of improving the team/franchise? the one with fans who pack the arena every night and buy up his 15 different home/road/retro/wine/gold/blue jerseys? the one that has hamstrung itself salary-wise trying to please him over the last 3 years without any type of commitment from him in return? But he's supposed to go play for Miami, who just wasted 2 of their francise player's prime years middling in a weak conference when they could have made moves to improve their team? please enlighten me, oh wise one, how exactly is Cleveland a crap franchise?oh, i know... it's IN CLEVELAND. hahahahahhahah. no seriously, i'm waiting.

LeBron has given Cleveland far more than Cleveland has given LeBron. He doesn't owe Cleveland ####.

 

[Green94]

and I think that would stunt the growth of Rose, so we may never see Rose develop into stud he can be.

I keep hearing this.... how would playing with one of (if not) the best player in the NBA stunt ones growth?Jordan made everyone around him better... from Steve Kerr to Ron Harper to Stacey King, because he was the best player of his time.These arguments continue to amaze me.

 

[Zigg]

He's a piece of garbage because he played out his contract for a crap franchise, then seems to not want to spend his entire career in Cleveland?

the franchise that has kissed his butt for the last 7 years? The one that has brought in player after player, with his approval, in an attempt to surround him with talent? The one with a nice arena with a giant billboard of him across the street? The one that built a beautiful new practice facility when and where he wanted? the one with an owner who is more than willing to spend money on any aspect of improving the team/franchise? the one with fans who pack the arena every night and buy up his 15 different home/road/retro/wine/gold/blue jerseys? the one that has hamstrung itself salary-wise trying to please him over the last 3 years without any type of commitment from him in return? But he's supposed to go play for Miami, who just wasted 2 of their francise player's prime years middling in a weak conference when they could have made moves to improve their team? please enlighten me, oh wise one, how exactly is Cleveland a crap franchise?oh, i know... it's IN CLEVELAND. hahahahahhahah. no seriously, i'm waiting.

So the Cavs rode the LeBron gravy train to a bunch of cash based on jersey sales and attendance, while adding players like Ben Wallace, Shaq and Jameson. The simple fact is that the Cavs can't add anyone, and you can't blame LeBron for not staying put while other teams improve.

 

[Juxtatarot]

He's a piece of garbage because he played out his contract for a crap franchise, then seems to not want to spend his entire career in Cleveland?

the franchise that has kissed his butt for the last 7 years? The one that has brought in player after player, with his approval, in an attempt to surround him with talent? The one with a nice arena with a giant billboard of him across the street? The one that built a beautiful new practice facility when and where he wanted? the one with an owner who is more than willing to spend money on any aspect of improving the team/franchise? the one with fans who pack the arena every night and buy up his 15 different home/road/retro/wine/gold/blue jerseys? the one that has hamstrung itself salary-wise trying to please him over the last 3 years without any type of commitment from him in return? But he's supposed to go play for Miami, who just wasted 2 of their francise player's prime years middling in a weak conference when they could have made moves to improve their team? please enlighten me, oh wise one, how exactly is Cleveland a crap franchise?oh, i know... it's IN CLEVELAND. hahahahahhahah. no seriously, i'm waiting.

So the Cavs rode the LeBron gravy train to a bunch of cash based on jersey sales and attendance, while adding players like Ben Wallace, Shaq and Jameson. The simple fact is that the Cavs can't add anyone, and you can't blame LeBron for not staying put while other teams improve.

Right, but I don't think the Cavs are a "crap" franchise.Edit: And you can't blame them for Ben Wallace or Shaq. Larry Hughes, on the other hand....

 

[oneohh]

He's a piece of garbage because he played out his contract for a crap franchise, then seems to not want to spend his entire career in Cleveland?

the franchise that has kissed his butt for the last 7 years? The one that has brought in player after player, with his approval, in an attempt to surround him with talent? The one with a nice arena with a giant billboard of him across the street? The one that built a beautiful new practice facility when and where he wanted? the one with an owner who is more than willing to spend money on any aspect of improving the team/franchise? the one with fans who pack the arena every night and buy up his 15 different home/road/retro/wine/gold/blue jerseys? the one that has hamstrung itself salary-wise trying to please him over the last 3 years without any type of commitment from him in return? But he's supposed to go play for Miami, who just wasted 2 of their francise player's prime years middling in a weak conference when they could have made moves to improve their team? please enlighten me, oh wise one, how exactly is Cleveland a crap franchise?oh, i know... it's IN CLEVELAND. hahahahahhahah. no seriously, i'm waiting.

LeBron has given Cleveland far more than Cleveland has given LeBron. He doesn't owe Cleveland ####.

at least you're consistent

 

[Captain Quinoa]

He's a piece of garbage because he played out his contract for a crap franchise, then seems to not want to spend his entire career in Cleveland?

the franchise that has kissed his butt for the last 7 years? The one that has brought in player after player, with his approval, in an attempt to surround him with talent? The one with a nice arena with a giant billboard of him across the street? The one that built a beautiful new practice facility when and where he wanted? the one with an owner who is more than willing to spend money on any aspect of improving the team/franchise? the one with fans who pack the arena every night and buy up his 15 different home/road/retro/wine/gold/blue jerseys? the one that has hamstrung itself salary-wise trying to please him over the last 3 years without any type of commitment from him in return? But he's supposed to go play for Miami, who just wasted 2 of their francise player's prime years middling in a weak conference when they could have made moves to improve their team? please enlighten me, oh wise one, how exactly is Cleveland a crap franchise?oh, i know... it's IN CLEVELAND. hahahahahhahah. no seriously, i'm waiting.

So the Cavs rode the LeBron gravy train to a bunch of cash based on jersey sales and attendance, while adding players like Ben Wallace, Shaq and Jameson. The simple fact is that the Cavs can't add anyone, and you can't blame LeBron for not staying put while other teams improve.

like Miami, NY, NJ? still waiting

 

[Captain Quinoa]

He's a piece of garbage because he played out his contract for a crap franchise, then seems to not want to spend his entire career in Cleveland?

the franchise that has kissed his butt for the last 7 years? The one that has brought in player after player, with his approval, in an attempt to surround him with talent? The one with a nice arena with a giant billboard of him across the street? The one that built a beautiful new practice facility when and where he wanted? the one with an owner who is more than willing to spend money on any aspect of improving the team/franchise? the one with fans who pack the arena every night and buy up his 15 different home/road/retro/wine/gold/blue jerseys? the one that has hamstrung itself salary-wise trying to please him over the last 3 years without any type of commitment from him in return? But he's supposed to go play for Miami, who just wasted 2 of their francise player's prime years middling in a weak conference when they could have made moves to improve their team? please enlighten me, oh wise one, how exactly is Cleveland a crap franchise?oh, i know... it's IN CLEVELAND. hahahahahhahah. no seriously, i'm waiting.

LeBron has given Cleveland far more than Cleveland has given LeBron. He doesn't owe Cleveland ####.

gunz with an irrelevant post. shocking!

 

[Steelfan7]

saw the knicks are gonna offer joe johnson a max contract on thursday

He has a history with Dantoni, but I am interested in the length of the deal. I don't believe Johnson is a max player, but if the deal is 4 years or less, that it wouldn't be horrible for the Knicks. If they sign Johnson, I wonder if their next play is for Amare. THey still have quite a hole at point guard, but Johnson and Amare would make them very formidable.\

Johnson & Amare is nothing more than a #4 seed. Hawks had more talent on their team. Thats not a chamionship team so why bother. Joe Johnson is a decent player but not worth a max deal. This would be Allan Houston all over again.

Joe Johnson is a lot better player than Allen Houston was. I think the Allan Houston deal was the worst max contract given out. A one dimensional scorer given a max deal? Made zero sense.And who knows what Johnson and Amare would be? That is why they play the games. D'Antoni will have two players that fit his O to go along with some interesting young talent.

I agree that Houston's second contract with the Knicks was outrageous, but the Knicks were already way over the cap and he developed a personal relationship with Dolan. I think Johnson is a better playmaker than Houston was, but Houston was by far a better shooter and clutch performer. He did lead a Ewing-less 8th seeded Knicks team to the NBA Finals. Johnson hasn't led a superior Hawks team out of the 2nd rd.

 

[Steelfan7]

and I think that would stunt the growth of Rose, so we may never see Rose develop into stud he can be.

I keep hearing this.... how would playing with one of (if not) the best player in the NBA stunt ones growth?Jordan made everyone around him better... from Steve Kerr to Ron Harper to Stacey King, because he was the best player of his time.These arguments continue to amaze me.

I don't know if Lebron would stunt Rose' growth, but one difference is that Jordan did not dominate the ball like Lebron and Rose and the players he made look good were outside shooters such as Paxson, Harper, Kerr, Sellers, Hodges and BJ Armstrong. So far one of Rose' weaknesses is his outside shooting.

 

[Juxtatarot]

and I think that would stunt the growth of Rose, so we may never see Rose develop into stud he can be.

I keep hearing this.... how would playing with one of (if not) the best player in the NBA stunt ones growth?Jordan made everyone around him better... from Steve Kerr to Ron Harper to Stacey King, because he was the best player of his time.

These arguments continue to amaze me.

I don't know if Lebron would stunt Rose' growth, but one difference is that Jordan did not dominate the ball like Lebron and Rose and the players he made look good were outside shooters such as Paxson, Harper, Kerr, Sellers, Hodges and BJ Armstrong. So far one of Rose' weaknesses is his outside shooting.

Yes he did.

 

[Bobcat10]

He's a piece of garbage because he played out his contract for a crap franchise, then seems to not want to spend his entire career in Cleveland?

the franchise that has kissed his butt for the last 7 years? The one that has brought in player after player, with his approval, in an attempt to surround him with talent? The one with a nice arena with a giant billboard of him across the street? The one that built a beautiful new practice facility when and where he wanted? the one with an owner who is more than willing to spend money on any aspect of improving the team/franchise? the one with fans who pack the arena every night and buy up his 15 different home/road/retro/wine/gold/blue jerseys? the one that has hamstrung itself salary-wise trying to please him over the last 3 years without any type of commitment from him in return? But he's supposed to go play for Miami, who just wasted 2 of their francise player's prime years middling in a weak conference when they could have made moves to improve their team? please enlighten me, oh wise one, how exactly is Cleveland a crap franchise?oh, i know... it's IN CLEVELAND. hahahahahhahah. no seriously, i'm waiting.

LeBron has given Cleveland far more than Cleveland has given LeBron. He doesn't owe Cleveland ####.

He's been coddled by "Cleveland" (I'm assuming you are referring to the franchise) more than a famous ffa blowup doll I've read about.

 

[Steelfan7]

and I think that would stunt the growth of Rose, so we may never see Rose develop into stud he can be.

I keep hearing this.... how would playing with one of (if not) the best player in the NBA stunt ones growth?Jordan made everyone around him better... from Steve Kerr to Ron Harper to Stacey King, because he was the best player of his time.

These arguments continue to amaze me.

I don't know if Lebron would stunt Rose' growth, but one difference is that Jordan did not dominate the ball like Lebron and Rose and the players he made look good were outside shooters such as Paxson, Harper, Kerr, Sellers, Hodges and BJ Armstrong. So far one of Rose' weaknesses is his outside shooting.

Yes he did.

We'll just have to disagree with the bolded part. I don't believe he dominated the ball as much as Lebron has. What about the fact that the current Bulls roster is void of 3pt shooters who would take advantage of Lebron kick outs?

 

[Wooderson]

3. If LeBron leaves, they are best served at blowing the whole thing up and starting over. I believe they'll still be over the cap or darn close to it. They need to dump salary. Getting a couple decent players and draft picks for LeBron isn't going to help the franchise. They would still be a lottery team.

I think you're right and they won't sign-and-trade him. However, it would be a mistake. Of course they shouldn't accept a bad contract back like Deng, Eddy Curry, Beasley, etc., but a large trade exception and a couple of picks can help them rebuild. The owner could also get cash considerations. Although cash won't help the team, Gilbert could be leaving millions of dollars on the table.

You guys are leaving out the fact that Lebron probably wouldn't want to do a sign and trade anyway. If signed by Cleveland for league max, whatever team he gets traded to would most likely be hurt pretty badly from the talent lost in the trade. And thus, not as good. It's the same reason Kobe didn't want to be traded to Chicago.

I believe the Bulls/Nets/Heat/Knicks (edit: and Kings, of course ) could do a sign and trade without giving anyone/anything up (except a bit of additional cap space v. signing him outright). I'm not sure on the rules exactly, but I think doing so might even net the Cavs a pretty large trade exception to use over the next year as well.

This one has made the most sense to me so far.

 

[Juxtatarot]

and I think that would stunt the growth of Rose, so we may never see Rose develop into stud he can be.

I keep hearing this.... how would playing with one of (if not) the best player in the NBA stunt ones growth?Jordan made everyone around him better... from Steve Kerr to Ron Harper to Stacey King, because he was the best player of his time.

These arguments continue to amaze me.

I don't know if Lebron would stunt Rose' growth, but one difference is that Jordan did not dominate the ball like Lebron and Rose and the players he made look good were outside shooters such as Paxson, Harper, Kerr, Sellers, Hodges and BJ Armstrong. So far one of Rose' weaknesses is his outside shooting.

Yes he did.

We'll just have to disagree with the bolded part. I don't believe he dominated the ball as much as Lebron has. What about the fact that the current Bulls roster is void of 3pt shooters who would take advantage of Lebron kick outs?

Yes, that is a concern. There has been some speculation that the Bulls preferred #2 target is Joe Johnson -- likely due to outside shooting. Rose and Deng are working hard on their 3 point shots this off-season but I don't think they can count on dramatic improvement. It's also possible they could pick up a 3 point specialist on a minimum contract or even trade Deng for a package that contains a shooter.

 

[Bobcat10]

Stephen A. Smith is reporting that LeBron James will sign, along with Chris Bosh, in Miami to play with Dwyane Wade.Of course, about a week or so ago, he was reporting that James would sign with the Knicks.

I guess my feeling all along of the Knicks and Heat as being the two longshots are now confirmed.

Whats Clevelands feel through all this? Everyone still confident? nervous? How's the media and people acting?

fans - very definitive - either convinced he'll stay or sure he's gone.media - pretty level - laughing at all the "reports" coming out of the other cities, not really trying to over-analyze the whole thing to their credit.

Pretty much...although I'm far from definitive.After the playoff exit this year, for a few days, I thought the media was going to run this guy right the hell out of town. I'm very pleased they backed off and I have (suprisingly) enjoyed how it's being handled locally. Anyways, I think people are underestimating a few things:1. Lebron signing a 3yr deal with Cleveland.2. Lebron signing for max years with Cleveland, who works out SnT with Toronto for Bosh and some garbage.3. Brian Shaw being in Cleveland today. Lebron has said, I believe, that he prefers a coach that has played the game and won. Both Scott and Shaw fit this description, along with other positives, and if Lebron comes back one of the two will likely be coaching the Cavs.I'm not saying either 1 or 2 are going to happen...but I wouldn't be suprised at all. And, if you think about it, they (especially #2) would be right in sync with the line of thinking of Lebron is all about Lebron and the attention."I got a goal, and it's a huge goal, and that's to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland," James said. "And I won't stop until I get it.". Now I don't want to start a piss match about that comment and how management and players say things all the time that they don't honor, it just is what it is imo.

 

[boubucarow]

We'll just have to disagree with the bolded part. I don't believe he dominated the ball as much as Lebron has. What about the fact that the current Bulls roster is void of 3pt shooters who would take advantage of Lebron kick outs?

Yes, that is a concern. There has been some speculation that the Bulls preferred #2 target is Joe Johnson -- likely due to outside shooting. Rose and Deng are working hard on their 3 point shots this off-season but I don't think they can count on dramatic improvement. It's also possible they could pick up a 3 point specialist on a minimum contract or even trade Deng for a package that contains a shooter.

James dominated the much like Jordan the year he averaged 8 assists because he had no one on his team to help handle the ball. As Pippen developed, Jordan was able to work on his post game and off the ball positioning. He also was allowed to conserve more energy as he aged. James has a lot of mileage for such a young player and Rose will allow him to develop as a player in a way never available before and also allow James to do less on the offensive end as his career progresses.I am sure Rose is working on his 3 point shot but I can't imagine him becoming a marksman. But he has shown a pretty reliable 15-18 foot jumper so far and James would get him many more open looks from that distance and from the 3 point line if that shot develops. Deng, on the other hand, shot over 40% on 65 baseline 3 point attempts. Throw in his quality man to man defense which would save James on the defensive end and the ability to finish at the rim, I think he is capable of playing a Bowen role on this team if he accepts that as his role with some added offensive and rebounding capabilities.

Of course, Deng might be traded still. I assume the Bulls would find some shooters to fill out the squad.

James kick outs to Rose on the perimeter, Deng for the baseline 3, or Bosh for the 15 foot jumper are all quality looks.

 

[Juxtatarot]

2. Lebron signing for max years with Cleveland, who works out SnT with Toronto for Bosh and some garbage.

I've heard this mentioned a few times but I can't see it happening. Since Cleveland would be over the cap, they would have to send salary back and I can't imagine Toronto would want those pieces. Also, Bosh would have to agree to come to Cleveland. I have a feeling his heart is set on either a big city or those warm Miami beaches.

 

[Bobcat10]

2. Lebron signing for max years with Cleveland, who works out SnT with Toronto for Bosh and some garbage.

I've heard this mentioned a few times but I can't see it happening. Since Cleveland would be over the cap, they would have to send salary back and I can't imagine Toronto would want those pieces. Also, Bosh would have to agree to come to Cleveland. I have a feeling his heart is set on either a big city or those warm Miami beaches.

There are different scenarios, some even including Hedo which I think would make Toronto more interested.imo, Bosh is following Lebron or going to Miami. That leaves him in just about every city I guess, but I look at it as just two scenarios.

 

[Steelfan7]

2. Lebron signing for max years with Cleveland, who works out SnT with Toronto for Bosh and some garbage.

I've heard this mentioned a few times but I can't see it happening. Since Cleveland would be over the cap, they would have to send salary back and I can't imagine Toronto would want those pieces. Also, Bosh would have to agree to come to Cleveland. I have a feeling his heart is set on either a big city or those warm Miami beaches.

There are different scenarios, some even including Hedo which I think would make Toronto more interested.imo, Bosh is following Lebron or going to Miami. That leaves him in just about every city I guess, but I look at it as just two scenarios.

Bosh and Hedo would be an awful lot of salary that would have to go back to Toronto in a sign and trade scenario. I don't envision that happening.

 

[Walton Goggins]

If he doesn't want to forfeit a lot of money he'll do a sign and tradeIf he doesn't want any blow back from Cavs and their fans he'll do a sign and tradeWhy give up a ton of money and piss off his hometown in the process? I think the amount is 20-30 mil that he will leave on the tableFYI: Without Yao they won more games than Chicago and only a few less than Miami and the West was a much tougher conference

Wow...It is not a lot of money. What he is missing in the 6th year he'll get back when he signs another deal. If for some reason, he never gets another contract, then yes, he is losing $20ish. Otherwise, he is losing something like 2%. If he leaves Cleveland, I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a #### about the Cavs and their fans.Are you seriously trying to use wins and losses as your barometer for talent?

Wrong. He can not only keep the extra 20mm but also sign another contract down the road (before final year). Only an idiot would leave that on the table and he's not an idiot. Why not maximize your change to win AND not leave 20mm on the table and not completely piss everyone off from your home state? Nets are not ready at this point and the Knicks are a complete mess. If you want the best chance to win and not piss away that kind of money you do a sign and trade. I think the "Rockets looking to acquire JJ" is a smokescreen, Morey never shows his hand in the past so why now? Would be interesting if they use the "Yao Ming / China billions of fans" speech on him and see what happens.Rockets w/o an all-star in a super competitive conference almost made the playoffs which is remarkable. Lebron caring or not about his hometown/fans there isn't the issue, the issue there is perception. You want at least the town/fans to think he's doing what's best for him meanwhile not screwing them over.

 

[flapgreen]

Lebron is his own sport. Just look at the bottom of the screen

 

[Walton Goggins]

If he doesn't want any blow back from Cavs and their fans he'll do a sign and trade

Agreed. The only way the Cavs fans will ever forgive LeBron for leaving is if he can somehow arrange a deal whereby the Cavs will acquire Shane Battier and Jared Jeffries in the process. That would definitely smooth things over there.

Funny but if you look a page or so back I laid out a trade plan where they get a hell of a lot more than that. Sure Cleveland wouldn't turn down 1st round picks plus many more players than the ones you listed, besides that wouldn't work anyway, you have to match the numbers.

 

[Walton Goggins]

If he doesn't want any blow back from Cavs and their fans he'll do a sign and trade

Agreed. The only way the Cavs fans will ever forgive LeBron for leaving is if he can somehow arrange a deal whereby the Cavs will acquire Shane Battier and Jared Jeffries in the process. That would definitely smooth things over there.

I can't think of any fan base that wouldn't be ecstatic to have those studs.

Money has to match from both teams when trading in the NBA. This isn't baseball.

 

[Steelfan7]

If he doesn't want to forfeit a lot of money he'll do a sign and tradeIf he doesn't want any blow back from Cavs and their fans he'll do a sign and tradeWhy give up a ton of money and piss off his hometown in the process? I think the amount is 20-30 mil that he will leave on the tableFYI: Without Yao they won more games than Chicago and only a few less than Miami and the West was a much tougher conference

Wow...It is not a lot of money. What he is missing in the 6th year he'll get back when he signs another deal. If for some reason, he never gets another contract, then yes, he is losing $20ish. Otherwise, he is losing something like 2%. If he leaves Cleveland, I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a #### about the Cavs and their fans.Are you seriously trying to use wins and losses as your barometer for talent?

Wrong. He can not only keep the extra 20mm but also sign another contract down the road (before final year). Only an idiot would leave that on the table and he's not an idiot. Why not maximize your change to win AND not leave 20mm on the table and not completely piss everyone off from your home state? Nets are not ready at this point and the Knicks are a complete mess. If you want the best chance to win and not piss away that kind of money you do a sign and trade. I think the "Rockets looking to acquire JJ" is a smokescreen, Morey never shows his hand in the past so why now? Would be interesting if they use the "Yao Ming / China billions of fans" speech on him and see what happens.Rockets w/o an all-star in a super competitive conference almost made the playoffs which is remarkable. Lebron caring or not about his hometown/fans there isn't the issue, the issue there is perception. You want at least the town/fans to think he's doing what's best for him meanwhile not screwing them over.

I've got news for you; if Lebron leaves the Cavs in any shape or form then the fans are going to hate him and turn on him regardless. Boozer is still considered slime in and around Cleveland.

 

[Walton Goggins]

But a move to Houston would raise his international profile tremendously by pairing him with the only basketball player bigger than James on the international scene: Yao Ming.

Walton > So you are conceding my point about Yao as a marketing tool? As some of us have been saying for the last few pages: if Lebron wants to be a global icon and possibly a billionaire, the only two places that make sense are Houston (piggy-backing on Yao's popularity in China just like Tmac did) or New Jersey*. As for the core of players, its obviously impossible to know who would be sent packing in a sign and trade, but the Rockets have as much B/B+ talent as anyone in the league. No, they don't have a Derrick Rose or a Brook Lopez, but even if you think Yao is done being effective the Rockets still boast a fairly strong roster of young players.

*The new Nets owner is going to go in to his meeting with Lebron with a "business plan" and presentation showing Lebron exactly how he'll become the most popular and richest athlete on earth if he joins their team. There will be strategies on growing his international appeal and the appeal of the Nets. I realize that the basketball part is super important, but I think the NEts will put the best "here is why the Lebron James machine should come to our team" case of anyomne courting him.

Yes and No. While he's popular it is surprising in some ways that Kobe's jersey outsells his. He would sell more jersey's and all involved would make more money if he signs with the Rockets. Adding many fans in China would be mind blowing.Nets are a mess now and realistically if he joined the Nets he's looking at a few more rebuilding years so no point there. With the Rockets he wouldn't have to wait.

Will be interesting to see if Nike can really sell Lebron on all the China stuff.

 

[Steelfan7]

If he doesn't want any blow back from Cavs and their fans he'll do a sign and trade

Agreed. The only way the Cavs fans will ever forgive LeBron for leaving is if he can somehow arrange a deal whereby the Cavs will acquire Shane Battier and Jared Jeffries in the process. That would definitely smooth things over there.

I can't think of any fan base that wouldn't be ecstatic to have those studs.

Money has to match from both teams when trading in the NBA. This isn't baseball.

Not in all situations.

 

[Juxtatarot]

2. Lebron signing for max years with Cleveland, who works out SnT with Toronto for Bosh and some garbage.

I've heard this mentioned a few times but I can't see it happening. Since Cleveland would be over the cap, they would have to send salary back and I can't imagine Toronto would want those pieces. Also, Bosh would have to agree to come to Cleveland. I have a feeling his heart is set on either a big city or those warm Miami beaches.

There are different scenarios, some even including Hedo which I think would make Toronto more interested.imo, Bosh is following Lebron or going to Miami. That leaves him in just about every city I guess, but I look at it as just two scenarios.

Hedo and Bosh are like, $27 million in salaries. Cavs would have to send at least $20 million back. Which players would work that not only would Toronto want but also wouldn't deplete the Cavs so much that LeBron and Bosh wouldn't have a decent supporting cast?

 

[Walton Goggins]

If he doesn't want any blow back from Cavs and their fans he'll do a sign and trade

Agreed. The only way the Cavs fans will ever forgive LeBron for leaving is if he can somehow arrange a deal whereby the Cavs will acquire Shane Battier and Jared Jeffries in the process. That would definitely smooth things over there.

In all seriousness, no way does Cleveland do a sign and trade of any kind unless ownership goes temporarily insane. The only way LeBron gets max $$$ is if he stays in Cleveland.

Even if Cleveland accepted this it wouldn't go through. The $$$ has to match when you trade in the NBA.If the Rockets offered a bag of basketballs to Cavs for Lebron and they accept it wouldn't go through

 

[Walton Goggins]

Maximum $$$ from a contract means nothing when your being wooed by a Russian billionaire.

Two years from now they would have a serious shot. Playing in a crappy stadium now for a team who won 12 games and just canned their GM is not a very stable or enticing environment. Lebron doesn't have two years to just throw out the window, he already threw away 7 in Cleveland.Way too many ????? with the Nets.

 

[Walton Goggins]

3. If LeBron leaves, they are best served at blowing the whole thing up and starting over. I believe they'll still be over the cap or darn close to it. They need to dump salary. Getting a couple decent players and draft picks for LeBron isn't going to help the franchise. They would still be a lottery team.

I think you're right and they won't sign-and-trade him. However, it would be a mistake. Of course they shouldn't accept a bad contract back like Deng, Eddy Curry, Beasley, etc., but a large trade exception and a couple of picks can help them rebuild. The owner could also get cash considerations. Although cash won't help the team, Gilbert could be leaving millions of dollars on the table.

If LeBron leaves, the value of the Cleveland franchise will plummet $150 million from what I've heard estimated. Not sure if there's a maximum amount of $$$ that one team can fork over in a trade, but let's say some team does give $10 million in the LeBron deal. That's nothing in the grand scheme of things if they lose LBJ. Cleveland basically has 2 things going for them as they try and resign LeBron:

1. They're LeBron's "home."

2. They can pay LBJ more than any other team.

IMO, it would be horrible strategy for the team to cave in on #2. This is uber high stakes poker and Cleveland needs to maximize their leverage by refusing to trade him. This puts all the pressure on LeBron.

Essentially, Cleveland is already pot committed for $150 million. IMO, there's no realistic trade that justifies the Cavs not seeing this all the way through. It's either LBJ or bust.

If they let him go 17mm counts against their cap next year and promise you this will not happen. Lebron won't leave 20mm on the table and the Cavs not getting anything while 17mm against their cap simply won't happen.Yes they can and then trade him. Sign and trade is best for not only the Cavs but Lebron as well.

 

[Walton Goggins]

3. If LeBron leaves, they are best served at blowing the whole thing up and starting over. I believe they'll still be over the cap or darn close to it. They need to dump salary. Getting a couple decent players and draft picks for LeBron isn't going to help the franchise. They would still be a lottery team.

I think you're right and they won't sign-and-trade him. However, it would be a mistake. Of course they shouldn't accept a bad contract back like Deng, Eddy Curry, Beasley, etc., but a large trade exception and a couple of picks can help them rebuild. The owner could also get cash considerations. Although cash won't help the team, Gilbert could be leaving millions of dollars on the table.

You guys are leaving out the fact that Lebron probably wouldn't want to do a sign and trade anyway. If signed by Cleveland for league max, whatever team he gets traded to would most likely be hurt pretty badly from the talent lost in the trade. And thus, not as good. It's the same reason Kobe didn't want to be traded to Chicago.

They'll get Lebron, it's worth it.

 

[Bobcat10]

If he doesn't want any blow back from Cavs and their fans he'll do a sign and trade

Agreed. The only way the Cavs fans will ever forgive LeBron for leaving is if he can somehow arrange a deal whereby the Cavs will acquire Shane Battier and Jared Jeffries in the process. That would definitely smooth things over there.

In all seriousness, no way does Cleveland do a sign and trade of any kind unless ownership goes temporarily insane. The only way LeBron gets max $$$ is if he stays in Cleveland.

Even if Cleveland accepted this it wouldn't go through. The $$$ has to match when you trade in the NBA.If the Rockets offered a bag of basketballs to Cavs for Lebron and they accept it wouldn't go through

Just like the Hinrich trade?

 

[Walton Goggins]

If he doesn't want to forfeit a lot of money he'll do a sign and tradeIf he doesn't want any blow back from Cavs and their fans he'll do a sign and tradeWhy give up a ton of money and piss off his hometown in the process? I think the amount is 20-30 mil that he will leave on the tableFYI: Without Yao they won more games than Chicago and only a few less than Miami and the West was a much tougher conference

Wow...It is not a lot of money. What he is missing in the 6th year he'll get back when he signs another deal. If for some reason, he never gets another contract, then yes, he is losing $20ish. Otherwise, he is losing something like 2%. If he leaves Cleveland, I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a #### about the Cavs and their fans.Are you seriously trying to use wins and losses as your barometer for talent?

Wrong. He can not only keep the extra 20mm but also sign another contract down the road (before final year). Only an idiot would leave that on the table and he's not an idiot. Why not maximize your change to win AND not leave 20mm on the table and not completely piss everyone off from your home state? Nets are not ready at this point and the Knicks are a complete mess. If you want the best chance to win and not piss away that kind of money you do a sign and trade. I think the "Rockets looking to acquire JJ" is a smokescreen, Morey never shows his hand in the past so why now? Would be interesting if they use the "Yao Ming / China billions of fans" speech on him and see what happens.Rockets w/o an all-star in a super competitive conference almost made the playoffs which is remarkable. Lebron caring or not about his hometown/fans there isn't the issue, the issue there is perception. You want at least the town/fans to think he's doing what's best for him meanwhile not screwing them over.

I've got news for you; if Lebron leaves the Cavs in any shape or form then the fans are going to hate him and turn on him regardless. Boozer is still considered slime in and around Cleveland.

The fans can't be as upset if he leaves for a team who is ready to win right now AND the team in return gets some great talent (which they have little) and multiple 1st round draft picks. Knicks fall in the lottery next year and don't pick #1 overall the Rockets can swap...would be pretty sweet for Cleveland if that was their pick as well as 2012 Knick's first round pick + potentially more picks.

 

[Walton Goggins]

If he doesn't want any blow back from Cavs and their fans he'll do a sign and trade

Agreed. The only way the Cavs fans will ever forgive LeBron for leaving is if he can somehow arrange a deal whereby the Cavs will acquire Shane Battier and Jared Jeffries in the process. That would definitely smooth things over there.

In all seriousness, no way does Cleveland do a sign and trade of any kind unless ownership goes temporarily insane. The only way LeBron gets max $$$ is if he stays in Cleveland.

Even if Cleveland accepted this it wouldn't go through. The $$$ has to match when you trade in the NBA.If the Rockets offered a bag of basketballs to Cavs for Lebron and they accept it wouldn't go through

Just like the Hinrich trade?

The money matched, what's your point?

 

[Bobcat10]

2. Lebron signing for max years with Cleveland, who works out SnT with Toronto for Bosh and some garbage.

I've heard this mentioned a few times but I can't see it happening. Since Cleveland would be over the cap, they would have to send salary back and I can't imagine Toronto would want those pieces. Also, Bosh would have to agree to come to Cleveland. I have a feeling his heart is set on either a big city or those warm Miami beaches.

There are different scenarios, some even including Hedo which I think would make Toronto more interested.imo, Bosh is following Lebron or going to Miami. That leaves him in just about every city I guess, but I look at it as just two scenarios.

Hedo and Bosh are like, $27 million in salaries. Cavs would have to send at least $20 million back. Which players would work that not only would Toronto want but also wouldn't deplete the Cavs so much that LeBron and Bosh wouldn't have a decent supporting cast?

Or Calderon.Off the top of my head...does this not work? I think it's one I've seen:Jamison (contract "better" than Hedo), Delonte (cut before Aug-something saves millions), Hickson (the actual "value" player), Parker's expiring (or Moon who expires in two summers iirc).

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Do Rockets fans seriously think Toronto or the Cavs are going to jump at the chance of acquiring four grossly overpaid guys and a couple draft picks for Bosh or Lebron?

 

[Bobcat10]

Even if Cleveland accepted this it wouldn't go through. The $$$ has to match when you trade in the NBA.If the Rockets offered a bag of basketballs to Cavs for Lebron and they accept it wouldn't go through

Just like the Hinrich trade?

The money matched, what's your point?

The Bulls took a player/salary back? News to me. Sorry.

 

[Walton Goggins]

2. Lebron signing for max years with Cleveland, who works out SnT with Toronto for Bosh and some garbage.

I've heard this mentioned a few times but I can't see it happening. Since Cleveland would be over the cap, they would have to send salary back and I can't imagine Toronto would want those pieces. Also, Bosh would have to agree to come to Cleveland. I have a feeling his heart is set on either a big city or those warm Miami beaches.

There are different scenarios, some even including Hedo which I think would make Toronto more interested.imo, Bosh is following Lebron or going to Miami. That leaves him in just about every city I guess, but I look at it as just two scenarios.

Hedo and Bosh are like, $27 million in salaries. Cavs would have to send at least $20 million back. Which players would work that not only would Toronto want but also wouldn't deplete the Cavs so much that LeBron and Bosh wouldn't have a decent supporting cast?

Or Calderon.Off the top of my head...does this not work? I think it's one I've seen:Jamison (contract "better" than Hedo), Delonte (cut before Aug-something saves millions), Hickson (the actual "value" player), Parker's expiring (or Moon who expires in two summers iirc).

Rockets could offer something like thisRockets sign & trade for Bosh:+luis scola+jordan hill+shane battier (expiring contract)+rights to swap 2011 first round picks with new york+2011 second round pick+2012 first round pick+$3 million cash

 

[Walton Goggins]

Do Rockets fans seriously think Toronto or the Cavs are going to jump at the chance of acquiring four grossly overpaid guys and a couple draft picks for Bosh or Lebron?

Can Toronto / Cavs get a better deal than what the Rockets can offer?

 

[Bobcat10]

Or Calderon.Off the top of my head...does this not work? I think it's one I've seen:Jamison (contract "better" than Hedo), Delonte (cut before Aug-something saves millions), Hickson (the actual "value" player), Parker's expiring (or Moon who expires in two summers iirc).

Rockets could offer something like thisRockets sign & trade for Bosh:+luis scola+jordan hill+shane battier (expiring contract)+rights to swap 2011 first round picks with new york+2011 second round pick+2012 first round pick+$3 million cash

I never said or implied the Cavs had the best package for a SnT with Toronto. So if Lebron decides to stay at max years in Cleveland you think Bosh would rather go play with Yao and whatever else they are selling?

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Do Rockets fans seriously think Toronto or the Cavs are going to jump at the chance of acquiring four grossly overpaid guys and a couple draft picks for Bosh or Lebron?

Can Toronto / Cavs get a better deal than what the Rockets can offer?

Yeah saying no is the better decision. Lebron could be bluffing. He could resign with the Cavs if he knew a sign and trade wasnt going to happen. They also would spare themselves tens of millions of dollars in mostly bad contracts that you seem to believe have value.

 

[Walton Goggins]

Or Calderon.

Off the top of my head...does this not work? I think it's one I've seen:

Jamison (contract "better" than Hedo), Delonte (cut before Aug-something saves millions), Hickson (the actual "value" player), Parker's expiring (or Moon who expires in two summers iirc).

Rockets could offer something like thisRockets sign & trade for Bosh:

+luis scola

+jordan hill

+shane battier (expiring contract)

+rights to swap 2011 first round picks with new york

+2011 second round pick

+2012 first round pick

+$3 million cash

I never said or implied the Cavs had the best package for a SnT with Toronto. So if Lebron decides to stay at max years in Cleveland you think Bosh would rather go play with Yao and whatever else they are selling?

Good question. Say the Rockets offer the most (players and multiple first round picks) and tells Bosh that if he doesn't want to leave millions on the table (he simply walks away) then he'll have to take it.

 

[Walton Goggins]

Do Rockets fans seriously think Toronto or the Cavs are going to jump at the chance of acquiring four grossly overpaid guys and a couple draft picks for Bosh or Lebron?

Can Toronto / Cavs get a better deal than what the Rockets can offer?

Yeah saying no is the better decision. Lebron could be bluffing. He could resign with the Cavs if he knew a sign and trade wasnt going to happen. They also would spare themselves tens of millions of dollars in mostly bad contracts that you seem to believe have value.

Name them.

 

[This_Guy]

The money matched, what's your point?

This isn't true.

Trades cannot be consummated officially until July 8, when the salary cap takes effect. The Wizards will have room under the cap to absorb Hinrich's $9 million contract without having to send Chicago anything of similar value.

Hinrich Trade ESPN article

 

[Walton Goggins]

Toronto is screwed since they won't be able to ever lure a big time player so in order to get better they will have to sign and trade Bosh and hopefully get solid players in return with a good chance to drafting a player in the lottery. I can't think of a better scenario for TOR than trading with the Rockets who could give them multiple picks and players. Will get interesting.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Do Rockets fans seriously think Toronto or the Cavs are going to jump at the chance of acquiring four grossly overpaid guys and a couple draft picks for Bosh or Lebron?

Can Toronto / Cavs get a better deal than what the Rockets can offer?

Yeah saying no is the better decision. Lebron could be bluffing. He could resign with the Cavs if he knew a sign and trade wasnt going to happen. They also would spare themselves tens of millions of dollars in mostly bad contracts that you seem to believe have value.

Name them.

You mentioned Ariza, Battier, Jeffries and Martin earlier. Thats 30 million dollars worth of 42% shooting. and thats ignoring the luxury tax.

 

[Walton Goggins]

Do Rockets fans seriously think Toronto or the Cavs are going to jump at the chance of acquiring four grossly overpaid guys and a couple draft picks for Bosh or Lebron?

Can Toronto / Cavs get a better deal than what the Rockets can offer?

Yeah saying no is the better decision. Lebron could be bluffing. He could resign with the Cavs if he knew a sign and trade wasnt going to happen. They also would spare themselves tens of millions of dollars in mostly bad contracts that you seem to believe have value.

Name them.

You mentioned Ariza, Battier, Jeffries and Martin earlier. Thats 30 million dollars worth of 42% shooting. and thats ignoring the luxury tax.

Those aren't bad contracts. Look at the years on them