*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (4 Viewers)

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Add Denver to list of teams making STRONG push for Udonis Haslem. Sources say Nuggets also offering deal starting at $5.8M MLE. Link to come

Looking less and less likely Heat will be able to get Miller AND Haslem.

I'm really starting to wonder who they're going to end up with.

IraHeatBeat Just heard from Udonis Haslem. He has turned down far larger deals from the Nuggets and Mavericks . . . and will be back with the Heat!

Much bigger deal salary percentage wise for Haslem to do what he apparently did than the those other three.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I know nobody cares, but that's kind of a bittersweet deal for the Bobcats (the playoff team in the deal).I'll really miss Diaw and I would've thought that Chandler's expiring contract would've been more valuable than that. Chandler, the player, is pretty worthless, but when he's on the court, at least it's a big body to do some fouling. This deal leaves a team that's thin in the frontcourt even thinner.Getting Calderon is exciting and necessary, but it felt like we gave up alot. Diaw's a good player and Chandler's contract has alot of value.

charlotte got a lot smaller along the frontline with chandler and diaw's departure, right? they re-signed tyrus thomas but who is left?C - ajinca/diop/mohammedPF - thomas/wallaceSF - wallace/hendersonSG - sjax/hendersonPG - calderon/augustinthey need some guys to fill out the roster.

They need Al Jefferson. Let's do this.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Add Denver to list of teams making STRONG push for Udonis Haslem. Sources say Nuggets also offering deal starting at $5.8M MLE. Link to come

Looking less and less likely Heat will be able to get Miller AND Haslem.

I'm really starting to wonder who they're going to end up with.

Big Z, Mike Miller, Eddie House, Haslem, and another (assuming they sign all 3 of their 2nd rounders).I think Haslem takes whatever deal for this year that works capwise. The Heat are trying to sign him with a player option or something, so that Haslem can opt out and then the Heat can re-sign him for more money later using his Bird-Rights.

 

[saintfool]

They need Al Jefferson. Let's do this.

for some reason adding AlJeff at center, presumably, made me think of this "Simpson's" moment...

Bill: Let me get this straight: you took all the money you made franchising your name and bet it against the Harlem Globetrotters?Krusty: Oh, I thought the Generals were due! [TV shows a Globetrotter spinning the ball as Generals watch] He's spinning the ball on his finger! Just take it, take the ball. [the Globetrotter kicks it into the net behind him] That game was fixed. They were using a freakin' ladder, for gods' sakes.

 

[Bobcat10]

Add Denver to list of teams making STRONG push for Udonis Haslem. Sources say Nuggets also offering deal starting at $5.8M MLE. Link to come

Looking less and less likely Heat will be able to get Miller AND Haslem.

I'm really starting to wonder who they're going to end up with.

Big Z, Mike Miller, Eddie House, Haslem, and another (assuming they sign all 3 of their 2nd rounders).I think Haslem takes whatever deal for this year that works capwise. The Heat are trying to sign him with a player option or something, so that Haslem can opt out and then the Heat can re-sign him for more money later using his Bird-Rights.

This is getting ridiculus.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

They need Al Jefferson. Let's do this.

for some reason adding AlJeff at center, presumably, made me think of this "Simpson's" moment...

Bill: Let me get this straight: you took all the money you made franchising your name and bet it against the Harlem Globetrotters?Krusty: Oh, I thought the Generals were due! [TV shows a Globetrotter spinning the ball as Generals watch] He's spinning the ball on his finger! Just take it, take the ball. [the Globetrotter kicks it into the net behind him] That game was fixed. They were using a freakin' ladder, for gods' sakes.

 

[Sammy3469]

Add Denver to list of teams making STRONG push for Udonis Haslem. Sources say Nuggets also offering deal starting at $5.8M MLE. Link to come

Looking less and less likely Heat will be able to get Miller AND Haslem.

I'm really starting to wonder who they're going to end up with.

Big Z, Mike Miller, Eddie House, Haslem, and another (assuming they sign all 3 of their 2nd rounders).I think Haslem takes whatever deal for this year that works capwise. The Heat are trying to sign him with a player option or something, so that Haslem can opt out and then the Heat can re-sign him for more money later using his Bird-Rights.

I'm pretty sure Bird's Rights only accumulate if a player is becomes a FA after being on the same contract for 3 or more years.In any case it looks like Haslem has turned down Denver and Dallas and will resign with the Heat (I'm guessing at 4 million or so to start). Combine with Miller that basically means they're looking at league minimums for the other 6 guys.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Add Denver to list of teams making STRONG push for Udonis Haslem. Sources say Nuggets also offering deal starting at $5.8M MLE. Link to come

Looking less and less likely Heat will be able to get Miller AND Haslem.

I'm really starting to wonder who they're going to end up with.

Big Z, Mike Miller, Eddie House, Haslem, and another (assuming they sign all 3 of their 2nd rounders).I think Haslem takes whatever deal for this year that works capwise. The Heat are trying to sign him with a player option or something, so that Haslem can opt out and then the Heat can re-sign him for more money later using his Bird-Rights.

This is getting ridiculus.

He doesn't have to take the contract or opt out (not 100% sure this is how the deal is supposed to work), nor do the Heat have to re-sign him if he does. That's how Haslem can make the most money though really.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Add Denver to list of teams making STRONG push for Udonis Haslem. Sources say Nuggets also offering deal starting at $5.8M MLE. Link to come

Looking less and less likely Heat will be able to get Miller AND Haslem.

I'm really starting to wonder who they're going to end up with.

Big Z, Mike Miller, Eddie House, Haslem, and another (assuming they sign all 3 of their 2nd rounders).I think Haslem takes whatever deal for this year that works capwise. The Heat are trying to sign him with a player option or something, so that Haslem can opt out and then the Heat can re-sign him for more money later using his Bird-Rights.

I'm pretty sure Bird's Rights only accumulate if a player is becomes a FA after being on the same contract for 3 or more years.In any case it looks like Haslem has turned down Denver and Dallas and will resign with the Heat (I'm guessing at 4 million or so to start). Combine with Miller that basically means they're looking at league minimums for the other 6 guys.

Yea, I'm not sure how it works, but I think there is some kind of loophole with opt-outs in the agreements or something or how to structure the contract. The Heat of some kind of cap/CBA guru apparently.

 

[the moops]

Yea, I'm not sure how it works, but I think there is some kind of loophole with opt-outs in the agreements or something or how to structure the contract. The Heat of some kind of cap/CBA guru apparently.

I try so damn hard to figure this NBA cap #### out. But man, it is ridiculous at times.Haslem made 7 million dollars last year. From what I gather he doesnt qualify for the Bird exception or the Early Bird exception, nor will he next year. To qualify as a Bird free agent, he must have played three seasons without being waived or changing teams. The Early Bird is similar, but it has to be 2 years.Haslem was waiver in order to make room for Lebron/Bosh, correct? Or is renouncing someone's rights different than simply waiving them?

 

[Sammy3469]

Yea, I'm not sure how it works, but I think there is some kind of loophole with opt-outs in the agreements or something or how to structure the contract. The Heat of some kind of cap/CBA guru apparently.

I'm not sure how it works when someone has been renounced (which Haslem was) since he would have been a Bird FA this year if he wasn't renounced. It would make sense that his clock resets to this year, but who knows.In any case a starting 5 of Wade, Miller, LeBron, Bosh, and Haslem should be good enough to win 70.

 

[Celph Titled]

You're not buying into the Clippers' hype? An awful lot of people this is going to be a pretty good team, based mainly on a guy nobody has yet seen play, and continued improved performances by Chris Kamen.

Gordon had a rough year, Baron's inefficient at best and hurt at worst, Griffin's still a ? until he can prove himself healthy.I like the Aminu pick a lot, and I think they have the talent to really improve...but this is the Clippers. Something is likely to go wrong.

 

[Sammy3469]

Yea, I'm not sure how it works, but I think there is some kind of loophole with opt-outs in the agreements or something or how to structure the contract. The Heat of some kind of cap/CBA guru apparently.

I try so damn hard to figure this NBA cap #### out. But man, it is ridiculous at times.Haslem made 7 million dollars last year. From what I gather he doesnt qualify for the Bird exception or the Early Bird exception, nor will he next year. To qualify as a Bird free agent, he must have played three seasons without being waived or changing teams. The Early Bird is similar, but it has to be 2 years.Haslem was waiver in order to make room for Lebron/Bosh, correct? Or is renouncing someone's rights different than simply waiving them?

Waiving (just releasing someone still on contract, opening up a roster space with team still paying him) is different than renouncing. I'm just not sure what "renouncing" actually reliqueshes besides the cap hold for free agents.

 

[No. 16]

Quentin Richardson has agreed in principle to a multi-year contract with the Orlando Magic, a league source tells Y! Sports.

Very nice signing for the Magic. Now, when Carter mails it in they have someone to put in in his place who can score some points. The Magic aren't going to be nearly as easy to beat as Miami fans may think.

According to No. 16, Richardson is a better value than Rudy Gay.

Depends on the contract, but being a better or worse value does not mean you are a better or worse player. When I talk about value I talk about production/impact for the money spent. In this example, Gay is the better player but if Q signs for say 3-5 million he would be a better value b/c he's getting paid role player salary and he fills a role as a scorer/3 point shooter/decent rebounder compared to Gay who is getting paid #1 money and probably won't produce at that level (LBJ, Wade, Carmelo, Dwight Howard, etc).So I don't think it's that far out there to say Gay is one of the worst values in FA right after Joe Johnson and Amare.

 

[timschochet]

Can the Heat get by without a traditional center on the floor? Suppose it's Haslem and Bosh alternating at "center"? To me that means you have a tremendous fast breaking team that will win a ton of games in the regular season (hopefully for me at least 65!). But then it the post season it starts to get dicey, doesn't it? You would think that both Boston and Orlando will present big problems, and that the Lakers would have a decisive advantage.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I'm pretty sure Bird's Rights only accumulate if a player is becomes a FA after being on the same contract for 3 or more years.

The Bird rights kick in after three consecutive seasons with the same team (or 2+ if the player is traded to the team in that first season). A player can sign three one-year deals and receive Bird rights, as long as he wasn't waived along the way. For example, Zydrunas Ilgauskas lost his Bird rights when he got traded to WAS during the season. Even though he never played for WAS and ended up back in CLE, his Bird clock reset because WAS waived him. Another was Haslem could lose Bird rights is if MIA renounced their FA rights to him. But it would only apply this season. MIA could renounce Haslem, find enough room under the cap to sign him anyway, and he would still have Bird rights next summer.

It's a risky move for Haslem given the uncertainty about contracts after next season, but he would get to play with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.

Which is why I think it's going to be a 1 year deal with a player option for the second year.

 

[Bobcat10]

I thought Bosch wanted to play next to a legit center?

 

[bg0546]

I thought Bosch wanted to play next to a legit center?

You don't always get what you want. Who knows, Ilgauskas might still end up there anyways.

 

[saintfool]

I thought Bosch wanted to play next to a legit center?

he said he had no interest in signing with a team and playing out of position. now that he's signed and the heat have become the favorites then maybe he won't mind as much. he could suck it up for a year. that said, it's not like they don't have options at C. if Z comes over for the vet minimum, for example. they still have pittman and varanado in their frontline rotation as well...

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I thought Bosch wanted to play next to a legit center?

he said he had no interest in signing with a team and playing out of position. now that he's signed and the heat have become the favorites then maybe he won't mind as much. he could suck it up for a year. that said, it's not like they don't have options at C. if Z comes over for the vet minimum, for example. they still have pittman and varanado in their frontline rotation as well...

Bosh said a lot of things like not wanting to play center, not wanting to be anyone's sidekick and wanting a max deal. What he says doesn't mean much apparently.

 

[No. 16]

Wow saw the Josh Childress deal. Great value for the Suns getting Childress for 5yrs/34 (6.8 per year), at that price I wish the Warriors had traded for him using Vlad Radmonvic's expiring deal. Now that Morrow and Childress have contracts I would like to ask which would you rather have?

Rudy Gay 5/80 (16 per year)

or

Josh Childress 5/34 (6.8 per year)

Anthony Morrow 3/12 (4 per year)

The Grizz could have solidified themselves if they had let Gay go and signed these two instead, IMO. They were roughly 11 million under the cap so they could have signed these guys outright and/or worked out a sign in trade for their services and whatever they get in return for Gay. Oh well.

 

[timschochet]

If the Lakers meet the Heat in the Finals with a healthy Bynum, Andrew could be MVP. 25 points a game and 10-15 rebounds.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Derek Fisher will return to the Lakers on a three-year contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...tory?id=5374270

 

[Gr00vus]

Derek Fisher will return to the Lakers on a three-year contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...tory?id=5374270

"I took time to consider all my options, many not reported in the media," Fisher said. "I listened to every coach, every general manager, even potential teammates in order to make the right decision and I thank every one of them. At the end of the day, there's one person I could not turn away from.

"Kobe Bryant asked me to stay but supported whatever decision I made. He and I have played together for 11 seasons, came into the league together as kids, and has been loyal to me even when others had doubts. We have won five championships together."

Sorry, it's getting a bit dusty in here and I think someone is chopping raw onions...

 

[Cliff Clavin]

If the Lakers meet the Heat in the Finals with a healthy Bynum, Andrew could be MVP. 25 points a game and 10-15 rebounds.

 

[timschochet]

Sure, everybody loves Derek Fisher NOW. Anybody remember the Oklahoma City series when TGunz and a few other Laker fans ripped him to shreds on a regular basis? Dump him, leave him on the bench, they said. I defended Fish (though I wasn't the only one).

 

[TobiasFunke]

Derek Fisher will return to the Lakers on a three-year contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...tory?id=5374270

Forgive me for not knowing this ... didn't he join the Lakers at one point to get top medical care for a child? Does anyone know if that kid is OK and whether that's still a factor for him?

 

[Gr00vus]

Derek Fisher will return to the Lakers on a three-year contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...tory?id=5374270

Forgive me for not knowing this ... didn't he join the Lakers at one point to get top medical care for a child? Does anyone know if that kid is OK and whether that's still a factor for him?

She's doing really well, and I think his family would probably have remained here regardless of where he signed.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Derek Fisher will return to the Lakers on a three-year contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...tory?id=5374270

Forgive me for not knowing this ... didn't he join the Lakers at one point to get top medical care for a child? Does anyone know if that kid is OK and whether that's still a factor for him?

She's doing really well, and I think his family would probably have remained here regardless of where he signed.

Thanks. Great to hear. A great guy who makes it just a little harder to root against the Lakers. Even my wife, who lived in L.A. for a couple years and hated pretty much every single thing she came across in the city, loves Fish and cheers for him as soon as she sees him on-screen (women seem to have a weird ability to separate player and team that men do not have).

 

[Celph Titled]

Wow saw the Josh Childress deal. Great value for the Suns getting Childress for 5yrs/34 (6.8 per year), at that price I wish the Warriors had traded for him using Vlad Radmonvic's expiring deal. Now that Morrow and Childress have contracts I would like to ask which would you rather have?Rudy Gay 5/80 (16 per year)orJosh Childress 5/34 (6.8 per year)Anthony Morrow 3/12 (4 per year)The Grizz could have solidified themselves if they had let Gay go and signed these two instead, IMO. They were roughly 11 million under the cap so they could have signed these guys outright and/or worked out a sign in trade for their services and whatever they get in return for Gay. Oh well.

And you're moving Mayo to PG?

 

[Gr00vus]

Splitter's officially in camp for the Spurs.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Wow saw the Josh Childress deal. Great value for the Suns getting Childress for 5yrs/34 (6.8 per year), at that price I wish the Warriors had traded for him using Vlad Radmonvic's expiring deal. Now that Morrow and Childress have contracts I would like to ask which would you rather have?Rudy Gay 5/80 (16 per year)orJosh Childress 5/34 (6.8 per year)Anthony Morrow 3/12 (4 per year)The Grizz could have solidified themselves if they had let Gay go and signed these two instead, IMO. They were roughly 11 million under the cap so they could have signed these guys outright and/or worked out a sign in trade for their services and whatever they get in return for Gay. Oh well.

Depends.What would the fans in Memphis think? How many minutes does Morrow play with Mayo there? Is Childress much improved or the same guy he was with the Hawks, solid, but unspectacular.All in all, I think I'd go for Gay and his potential superstar upside I guess. Even though I generally agree that Gay was overpaid, sometimes teams like the Grizzlies have no choice.

 

[saintfool]

Splitter's officially in camp for the Spurs.

:boner:

 

[No. 16]

Wow saw the Josh Childress deal. Great value for the Suns getting Childress for 5yrs/34 (6.8 per year), at that price I wish the Warriors had traded for him using Vlad Radmonvic's expiring deal. Now that Morrow and Childress have contracts I would like to ask which would you rather have?Rudy Gay 5/80 (16 per year)orJosh Childress 5/34 (6.8 per year)Anthony Morrow 3/12 (4 per year)The Grizz could have solidified themselves if they had let Gay go and signed these two instead, IMO. They were roughly 11 million under the cap so they could have signed these guys outright and/or worked out a sign in trade for their services and whatever they get in return for Gay. Oh well.

And you're moving Mayo to PG?

He was recruited as a PG out of HS and played there at USC. He is more of a 2/1 then a 1/2 combo guard but it's worth a shot IMO for the improved defense since he's smaller then most SGs. For what it's worth he's getting time there in summer league. If anything bringing Morrow off the bench would help the team a lot and I don't think there is a drop if any between Gay and Childress.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Splitter's officially in camp for the Spurs.

:boner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aszI1ETzII4

Fail on the video name.

Looks quick and fairly athletic (except for that reverse dunk on the breakaway). He's no NIKOLAPEKOVIC though.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Wow saw the Josh Childress deal. Great value for the Suns getting Childress for 5yrs/34 (6.8 per year), at that price I wish the Warriors had traded for him using Vlad Radmonvic's expiring deal. Now that Morrow and Childress have contracts I would like to ask which would you rather have?Rudy Gay 5/80 (16 per year)orJosh Childress 5/34 (6.8 per year)Anthony Morrow 3/12 (4 per year)The Grizz could have solidified themselves if they had let Gay go and signed these two instead, IMO. They were roughly 11 million under the cap so they could have signed these guys outright and/or worked out a sign in trade for their services and whatever they get in return for Gay. Oh well.

And you're moving Mayo to PG?

He was recruited as a PG out of HS and played there at USC. He is more of a 2/1 then a 1/2 combo guard but it's worth a shot IMO for the improved defense since he's smaller then most SGs. For what it's worth he's getting time there in summer league. If anything bringing Morrow off the bench would help the team a lot and I don't think there is a drop if any between Gay and Childress.

Two over the top statements here, imo. Mayo worth trying at PG. :bigredx: No drop off between Gay and Childress. :biggerredx:I'm sure you'll come up with some Greek League stats to "prove" me wrong though.

 

[saintfool]

If anything bringing Morrow off the bench would help the team a lot and I don't think there is a drop if any between Gay and Childress.

oh bull####. there have been plenty of ridiculous statements made in this thread but, today, you get the award for this.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

If anything bringing Morrow off the bench would help the team a lot and I don't think there is a drop if any between Gay and Childress.

oh bull####. there have been plenty of ridiculous statements made in this thread but, today, you get the award for this.

The power of the fro compels you.

 

[thecatch]

I like Jarrett Jack but I think he has peaked as a player. He's the kind of guy that you absolutely love as a 6th man.....but if he's your starter then you're always going to be looking for a better option.

absolutely agree. while i don't think calderon was elite talent, i also don't think he was a part of the problem there. he was going to be less effective with bosh gone.all of this said, they're still a much better team than phoenix.

I think Childress = Rudy Gay is probably more defensible than this statement, but I'd be interested in the arguments on both.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I like Jarrett Jack but I think he has peaked as a player. He's the kind of guy that you absolutely love as a 6th man.....but if he's your starter then you're always going to be looking for a better option.

absolutely agree. while i don't think calderon was elite talent, i also don't think he was a part of the problem there. he was going to be less effective with bosh gone.all of this said, they're still a much better team than phoenix.

I think Childress = Rudy Gay is probably more defensible than this statement, but I'd be interested in the arguments on both.

Yeah, that one kind of slid through unscathed somehow.

 

[timschochet]

The other team (besides the Lakers) that I think really presents problems for Miami with that lineup (James, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, point guard??, with Miller off the bench) is Orlando. Boston beat Orlando because Perkins played great man defense on Howard and that stifled the Magic's offense. I know Howard is not the greatest offensive threat, but even so he should have his way with the Heat.

 

[saintfool]

I like Jarrett Jack but I think he has peaked as a player. He's the kind of guy that you absolutely love as a 6th man.....but if he's your starter then you're always going to be looking for a better option.

absolutely agree. while i don't think calderon was elite talent, i also don't think he was a part of the problem there. he was going to be less effective with bosh gone.all of this said, they're still a much better team than phoenix.

I think Childress = Rudy Gay is probably more defensible than this statement, but I'd be interested in the arguments on both.

which part? phoenix is worse now or that toronto is better?

 

[Abraham]

The other team (besides the Lakers) that I think really presents problems for Miami with that lineup (James, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, point guard??, with Miller off the bench) is Orlando. Boston beat Orlando because Perkins played great man defense on Howard and that stifled the Magic's offense. I know Howard is not the greatest offensive threat, but even so he should have his way with the Heat.

I think Chicago and OKC could pose issues as well. IMO, the Bulls are trying to add outside shooting depth so no lead is safe for the opposition. And OKC could offer problems with the athleticism of Green, Harden, etc.

 

[thecatch]

I like Jarrett Jack but I think he has peaked as a player. He's the kind of guy that you absolutely love as a 6th man.....but if he's your starter then you're always going to be looking for a better option.

absolutely agree. while i don't think calderon was elite talent, i also don't think he was a part of the problem there. he was going to be less effective with bosh gone.all of this said, they're still a much better team than phoenix.

I think Childress = Rudy Gay is probably more defensible than this statement, but I'd be interested in the arguments on both.

which part? phoenix is worse now or that toronto is better?

"[Toronto is] a much better team than phoenix."If you are saying today's trades were upgrades for Toronto and downgrades for Phoenix, that's perfectly reasonable. But that's not what you appeared to say.

 

[Sammy3469]

The other team (besides the Lakers) that I think really presents problems for Miami with that lineup (James, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, point guard??, with Miller off the bench) is Orlando. Boston beat Orlando because Perkins played great man defense on Howard and that stifled the Magic's offense. I know Howard is not the greatest offensive threat, but even so he should have his way with the Heat.

I think Chicago and OKC could pose issues as well. IMO, the Bulls are trying to add outside shooting depth so no lead is safe for the opposition. And OKC could offer problems with the athleticism of Green, Harden, etc.

May want to rethink that statement. Harden's big knock this year was he wasn't athletic enough. I actually think OKC is the "best" matchup for the Heat since LeBron should be able to matchup well against Durant and Wade should be able to guard Westbrook.

 

[Gr00vus]

Quentin Richardson has agreed in principle to a multi-year contract with the Orlando Magic, a league source tells Y! Sports.

Very nice signing for the Magic. Now, when Carter mails it in they have someone to put in in his place who can score some points. The Magic aren't going to be nearly as easy to beat as Miami fans may think.

So does that indicate they may not match the Bulls offer to Reddick?

So another blurb says the Richardson signing addresses the 3 (not the 2) and that Barnes is probably on the street as a result, but that they're still mulling over resigning Reddick.

 

[No. 16]

Wow saw the Josh Childress deal. Great value for the Suns getting Childress for 5yrs/34 (6.8 per year), at that price I wish the Warriors had traded for him using Vlad Radmonvic's expiring deal. Now that Morrow and Childress have contracts I would like to ask which would you rather have?

Rudy Gay 5/80 (16 per year)

or

Josh Childress 5/34 (6.8 per year)

Anthony Morrow 3/12 (4 per year)

The Grizz could have solidified themselves if they had let Gay go and signed these two instead, IMO. They were roughly 11 million under the cap so they could have signed these guys outright and/or worked out a sign in trade for their services and whatever they get in return for Gay. Oh well.

And you're moving Mayo to PG?

He was recruited as a PG out of HS and played there at USC. He is more of a 2/1 then a 1/2 combo guard but it's worth a shot IMO for the improved defense since he's smaller then most SGs. For what it's worth he's getting time there in summer league. If anything bringing Morrow off the bench would help the team a lot and I don't think there is a drop if any between Gay and Childress.

Two over the top statements here, imo. Mayo worth trying at PG. :bigredx:

No drop off between Gay and Childress. :biggerredx:

I'm sure you'll come up with some Greek League stats to "prove" me wrong though.

I don't think Mayo can be a true PG but he averages 3 ast per game playing off the ball. He can be a better version of Derek Fisher, IMO, who plays the PG but his function is more SG. Mayo plays decent defense but he's outmatched by the bigger SGs... then again Morrow is terrible so it's probably a net equal Conely/Mayo vs Mayo/Morrow on the defensive end and likely worse. No need to look at Greek League stats just a simple comparison of NBA stats.

Gay vs Childress

Aside from PPG, look at the stats advanced or basic and let me know where the drop off is? Also note that Childress did it in 4 mpg less than Gay. Then you add to that that Childress is a + defender vs Gay and I don't think it's an outlandish statement.

The extra points Gay produced took EXTRA SHOTS and with him gone those shots would spread between Mayo, Z-Bo, Marc Gasol, Childress, and Morrow. All these guys shoot more efficiently then Gay and it would only take a TOTAL OF 4 FGM/game spread between those 5 players to make up the 11 ppg vs 18 ppg between Childress and Gay. That's an extra shot or 2 for each player which shouldn't decrease their efficiency much.

Again those guys shoot it more efficiently than Gay so in the end it will help improve their team (efficiency and more offensive options). Points in an NBA game is the easiest thing to do/find (see Golden State Warriors) but finding guys who score efficiently AND play defense is the holy grail.

So now that you see the stats are similar aside from PPG and how easy the Grizzlies can make up that 7 ppg difference... is that such an outlandish statement?

 

[Gr00vus]

Derek Fisher will return to the Lakers on a three-year contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...tory?id=5374270

"I took time to consider all my options, many not reported in the media," Fisher said. "I listened to every coach, every general manager, even potential teammates in order to make the right decision and I thank every one of them. At the end of the day, there's one person I could not turn away from.

"Kobe Bryant asked me to stay but supported whatever decision I made. He and I have played together for 11 seasons, came into the league together as kids, and has been loyal to me even when others had doubts. We have won five championships together."

Sorry, it's getting a bit dusty in here and I think someone is chopping raw onions...

Fisher's on-court performance is of course in decline, but re-signing him was an absolute must for LAL. Fisher is the one guy in the LAL organization that can get through to Kobe when Kobe is running on max diva power. When I heard MIA was after him, I figured Riley was interested in Fisher to sabotage the LAL locker room first and hit open threes in playoff games second. With Fisher back in the mix, now Jackson has a vehicle to deliver messages to Kobe even when Kobe has tuned him out. Even if Fisher averages 15 MPG and 4 PPG this season, this signing was key for the run for the three-peat.

That == true. Scoring Fisher would have been a huge coup for the Heat not just for what it would do to the Laker chemistry, but what it would do for the Heat chemistry. They're going to need help in that department when the playoffs roll around no matter how much they romp in the regular season. I don't think Mike Miller or Mario Chalmers are going to be able to correct course for these guys when things get dicey.

 

[timschochet]

The other team (besides the Lakers) that I think really presents problems for Miami with that lineup (James, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, point guard??, with Miller off the bench) is Orlando. Boston beat Orlando because Perkins played great man defense on Howard and that stifled the Magic's offense. I know Howard is not the greatest offensive threat, but even so he should have his way with the Heat.

I think Chicago and OKC could pose issues as well. IMO, the Bulls are trying to add outside shooting depth so no lead is safe for the opposition. And OKC could offer problems with the athleticism of Green, Harden, etc.

You know, everyone seems to think that by next season, Oklahoma City is going to be the second best team in the west. I don't see it; I still don't think they are a particulary good team. They provided some matchup problems for the Lakers; particularly Westbrook on Fisher. But for all Westbrook's speed I don't believe he knows what he's doing yet, and for all Durant's great skills he's still an outside jump shooter who can score a lot of points. I think this team is a few years away, and I'm not sure they will ever get there- who knows?Denver and Dallas are the teams that really should challenge the Lakers in the West- they remain, IMO, the two best teams other than Los Angeles.

 

[No. 16]

Now if you'd rather have Gay vs Childress/Morrow because you think he can become better than his is, I think you're wrong (23 yrs/4 years of nearly same play), but we'll just agree to disagree (can't tell who is right/wrong for a few more years).

However, if you think that Gay vs Childress/Morrow is better for the team play, I think you're wrong, but I would love to debate the topic. I've laid out my case and facts. Would love to hear the case/facts from those who think it is an outlandish statement.