*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (8 Viewers)

[No. 16]

Adelman doesn't get enough credit. Every season I am surprised what he can do with limited amount of healthy talent on that Rockets team.

Or maybe Daryl Morey has found a different way to scout/value players using analytics.

 

[Ryno]

Adelman doesn't get enough credit. Every season I am surprised what he can do with limited amount of healthy talent on that Rockets team.

Or maybe Daryl Morey has found a different way to scout/value players using analytics.

That too is possible but Morey doesn't have a history of this outside of Adelman, where Adelman has been successful everywhere outside of Golden State.

 

[Bobcat10]

Wade is as close to Micheal Jordan in talent as probably any shooting guard ever.

Kobe down?

Without bringing up championships, give me one reason Kobe is the better player.

GB you folks that want to have discussions only under your terms. People like you aren't worth giving a reason to

:diehard Heat fan:

So then give him two reasons.

 

[the moops]

Carmelo to the Nets?

Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy's and Kris Humphries' expiring deals and a first-round draft pick to Denver.

Link

 

[Kev4029]

Carmelo to the Nets?

Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy's and Kris Humphries' expiring deals and a first-round draft pick to Denver.

Link

That would be a disappointment. And I'm not sure Humphries would even be necessary, between Murphy and Favors they would have over 16 mill in salary. Something like that makes me think whoever the source is for ESPN is just looking to make more of a story. If he wasn't necessary in the trade, I can't imagine Denver would want him because that would give the Nuggets 6 PFs (Harrington, Balkman, Martin plus the new guys) and two PFs (Nene and Anderson) masquerading as centers and I would think the Nets would really like to keep him so they don't trade all three of their PFs away.Do the Nets have any picks from other teams, or just their own over the next two or three years?

 

[Abraham]

Dwayne Wade is nowhere near Kobe Bryant yet.

 

[the moops]

Dwayne Wade is nowhere near Kobe Bryant yet.

You may not like PER as a stat, but...2010: Wade 28, Kobe 21.92009: Wade 30.4, Kobe 24.4

 

[Abraham]

Dwayne Wade is nowhere near Kobe Bryant yet.

You may not like PER as a stat, but...2010: Wade 28, Kobe 21.92009: Wade 30.4, Kobe 24.4

You might not like NBA Finals as a stat, but...2010: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early2009: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early.I'm not a huge Kobe fan, but he is easily one of the 12-15 best players in the history of the NBA. Wade might get there, but its going to take 2 or 3 more rings and some epic performances. I like WAde as a player, but comparing him to Kobe is silly.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Dwayne Wade is nowhere near Kobe Bryant yet.

You may not like PER as a stat, but...2010: Wade 28, Kobe 21.92009: Wade 30.4, Kobe 24.4

You might not like NBA Finals as a stat, but...2010: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early2009: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early.I'm not a huge Kobe fan, but he is easily one of the 12-15 best players in the history of the NBA. Wade might get there, but its going to take 2 or 3 more rings and some epic performances. I like WAde as a player, but comparing him to Kobe is silly.

Wade got to the second round with odom, butler, and grant. Kobe the next season missed the playoffs. Then wade made the ecf and then won title and finals MVP before kobe ever did while Kobe was sent home early.

 

[Abraham]

Dwayne Wade is nowhere near Kobe Bryant yet.

You may not like PER as a stat, but...2010: Wade 28, Kobe 21.92009: Wade 30.4, Kobe 24.4

You might not like NBA Finals as a stat, but...2010: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early2009: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early.I'm not a huge Kobe fan, but he is easily one of the 12-15 best players in the history of the NBA. Wade might get there, but its going to take 2 or 3 more rings and some epic performances. I like WAde as a player, but comparing him to Kobe is silly.

Wade got to the second round with odom, butler, and grant. Kobe the next season missed the playoffs. Then wade made the ecf and then won title and finals MVP before kobe ever did while Kobe was sent home early.

Then I'm sure that when Wade is Kobe's age he'll have 5 rings and an MVP award.

 

[Kev4029]

Dwayne Wade is nowhere near Kobe Bryant yet.

You may not like PER as a stat, but...2010: Wade 28, Kobe 21.92009: Wade 30.4, Kobe 24.4

You might not like NBA Finals as a stat, but...2010: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early2009: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early.I'm not a huge Kobe fan, but he is easily one of the 12-15 best players in the history of the NBA. Wade might get there, but its going to take 2 or 3 more rings and some epic performances. I like WAde as a player, but comparing him to Kobe is silly.

Without looking it up, give me 5 players that played with wade last year.Without looking it up give me 8 of Kobe's.Wade took that terrible heat team to the playoffs, the only other play that could have taken the heat to the playoffs was lebron.

 

[Abraham]

Dwayne Wade is nowhere near Kobe Bryant yet.

You may not like PER as a stat, but...2010: Wade 28, Kobe 21.92009: Wade 30.4, Kobe 24.4

You might not like NBA Finals as a stat, but...2010: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early2009: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early.I'm not a huge Kobe fan, but he is easily one of the 12-15 best players in the history of the NBA. Wade might get there, but its going to take 2 or 3 more rings and some epic performances. I like WAde as a player, but comparing him to Kobe is silly.

Without looking it up, give me 5 players that played with wade last year.Without looking it up give me 8 of Kobe's.Wade took that terrible heat team to the playoffs, the only other play that could have taken the heat to the playoffs was lebron.

Agreed. So Wade should be in a conversation with Allen Iverson, another great player on crummy teams that was able to haul his team to the playoffs on his shoulders. It's not Kobe's fault that Wade's teams have stunk. And now that Wade has Lebron and a mediocre power forward on his team, he should be able to win MVPs and Titles galore in the next 5 years.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Dwayne Wade is nowhere near Kobe Bryant yet.

You may not like PER as a stat, but...2010: Wade 28, Kobe 21.9

2009: Wade 30.4, Kobe 24.4

You might not like NBA Finals as a stat, but...

2010: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early

2009: Kobe 1 ring, Wade home early.

I'm not a huge Kobe fan, but he is easily one of the 12-15 best players in the history of the NBA. Wade might get there, but its going to take 2 or 3 more rings and some epic performances. I like WAde as a player, but comparing him to Kobe is silly.

Without looking it up, give me 5 players that played with wade last year.Without looking it up give me 8 of Kobe's.

Wade took that terrible heat team to the playoffs, the only other play that could have taken the heat to the playoffs was lebron.

Agreed. So Wade should be in a conversation with Allen Iverson, another great player on crummy teams that was able to haul his team to the playoffs on his shoulders. It's not Kobe's fault that Wade's teams have stunk. And now that Wade has Lebron and a mediocre power forward on his team, he should be able to win MVPs and Titles galore in the next 5 years.

Mediocre? Which power forwards in the league are better?

 

[Abraham]

Mediocre? Which power forwards in the league are better?

He's pretty good. I'm just hating on Bosh because of his behavior this summer. I thought his "someone pay attention to me too!" routine was tired from the beginning. Right now, the PF position is a bit thin in the NBA as guys like Garnett and Duncan are getting older and the most talented 6'10" guy in the league plays shooting guard. I'll be interested to see how Bosh does in Miami. His game is going to be about cleaning the glass and second chance points, not being the focal point of the offense. And since he isn't a great defender (IIRC), he could easily become an overpaid 12/8 guy with LBJ and Wade taking most of the shots. I think he's going to have hell in the playoffs if he's supposed to guard Shaq/Garnett, Howard, and Gasol on the way to a title. We shall see...

 

[JMon348]

 

[Kiddnets]

Carmelo to the Nets?

Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy's and Kris Humphries' expiring deals and a first-round draft pick to Denver.

Link

That would be a disappointment. And I'm not sure Humphries would even be necessary, between Murphy and Favors they would have over 16 mill in salary. Something like that makes me think whoever the source is for ESPN is just looking to make more of a story. If he wasn't necessary in the trade, I can't imagine Denver would want him because that would give the Nuggets 6 PFs (Harrington, Balkman, Martin plus the new guys) and two PFs (Nene and Anderson) masquerading as centers and I would think the Nets would really like to keep him so they don't trade all three of their PFs away.Do the Nets have any picks from other teams, or just their own over the next two or three years?

Nets have Golden State's 1st rd pick protected 1-7 in 2012Nets are trading a lot in that deal but I would probably do it to get a superstar like Carmello to team with Harris/Lopez....if I were the Nets GM I would try to play hardball and keep Favors out but in the end if it was Favors orno deal I would probably relent.....Favors couldbe next Howard or Kwame...you take the sure thing IMO

 

[Walton Goggins]

And in a twist that will make the Knicks and their fans even more frustrated, the Houston Rockets are one of the teams aggressively pursuing Anthony. The Rockets are doing it in part by offering at least one of the draft picks they acquired from the Knicks last February.

When the Knicks worked to create cap room last season so they would pursue various big-name free agents, they turned to the Rockets for help.

In a three-way trade last February that involved the Rockets and the Sacramento Kings, the Knicks cleared Jared Jeffries’s salary off this year’s payroll and landed Tracy McGrady’s expiring contract. The Knicks and the Rockets also swapped first-round choices in 2011 — the Knicks’ pick is likely to be a better one — and the Knicks traded Houston their 2012 first-round choice.

The picks give Houston more to offer Denver. Meanwhile, N.B.A. rules prohibit a team from trading first-round picks in consecutive years, so the Knicks cannot trade their 2013 first-round pick as part of any Anthony deal.

Denver is believed to be seeking a combination of draft picks, expiring contracts and young players with low salaries, according to ESPN.

And while the Nets have now emerged as a front-runner if there is an Anthony trade, Houston is prepared to offer a package centered on shooting guard Kevin Martin and those draft picks from the Knicks, according to an N.B.A. executive who has had discussions with the Nuggets.

That executive, who does not work for the Knicks, said Anthony would prefer to go to New York, suggesting he would refuse to sign an extension with other teams. The Nets are willing to trade Derrick Favors, the third overall pick in June’s draft, a future first-round pick and the expiring contracts of Troy Murphy and Kris Humphries, according to ESPN.

The executive said the Chicago Bulls had dropped out of the running for Anthony because they would not include center Joakim Noah in a proposal.

Denver has offered a three-year, $65 million contract extension that Anthony has declined to sign.

 

[biggamer3]

If Melo wants NY, then he will be traded to NY, that simple.

He is not going to Houston, they dont have a better future then NY does and he has no desire to play in the West

 

[Walton Goggins]

If Melo wants NY, then he will be traded to NY, that simple.

He is not going to Houston, they dont have a better future then NY does and he has no desire to play in the West

NY is one of the worst organizations in the NBA

 

[Kiddnets]

If Melo wants NY, then he will be traded to NY, that simple.He is not going to Houston, they dont have a better future then NY does and he has no desire to play in the West

Not true - Denver knows he wants to sign the extension before the new CBA kicks in so they can play some hardball - he has said he will sign in a few places - Brooklyn is close enough to NY plus his wife is from there - plus Nets can offer a ton more than the Knicks.....unless he holds out to FA and passes on the guaranteed money I dont think the Knicks have the assets to land him.

 

[Abraham]

If Melo wants NY, then he will be traded to NY, that simple.He is not going to Houston, they dont have a better future then NY does and he has no desire to play in the West

I agree that he isn't going to Houston, but how on earth can you think that "they don't have a better future then NY does?" They have more, better players and finished 42-40 last season. They have the Knicks upcoming picks as well, so the only way NYK conceivably could have a brighter future then the Rockets is if 25 other teams ceased to exist.

 

[biggamer3]

If Melo wants NY, then he will be traded to NY, that simple.He is not going to Houston, they dont have a better future then NY does and he has no desire to play in the West

I agree that he isn't going to Houston, but how on earth can you think that "they don't have a better future then NY does?" They have more, better players and finished 42-40 last season. They have the Knicks upcoming picks as well, so the only way NYK conceivably could have a brighter future then the Rockets is if 25 other teams ceased to exist.

Um, Knicks totally revamped, have a top 15 player in Amare, young solid players like Anthony Randolph and Gallo that are getting better, plus they have solid other guys like Felton, Wilson Chandler and that Russian center who looks goodYao can not be counted on, what do Houston really have going for them? Brooks is decent far from a star, Martin is an average player on a good team, Ariza is a facade IMO, he shoots horribly and gets a few dunks to excite the fans and make them think he is good. He was good a role guy for Lakers not as a 40 Mins a game guyWhen i said NY i was including Nets anda Knicks, but Houston is just a bargaining tool Denver is using to extort more out of Knicks and Nets

 

[Abraham]

Yao can not be counted on, what do Houston really have going for them? Brooks is decent far from a star, Martin is an average player on a good team, Ariza is a facade IMO, he shoots horribly and gets a few dunks to excite the fans and make them think he is good. He was good a role guy for Lakers not as a 40 Mins a game guy

Ariza doesn't play for the Rockets anymore.Houston has talented young players in Brooks, Budinger, and Patterson.They have quality vets in Martin, Scola, Battier, and Hayes. They have the Knicks next two 1st round picks, IIRC.I'll grant you Amare being the best player between the two teams, but the rest of the rosters would see the ROckets having 7 of the next 10 best players, IMO.

 

[biggamer3]

Yao can not be counted on, what do Houston really have going for them? Brooks is decent far from a star, Martin is an average player on a good team, Ariza is a facade IMO, he shoots horribly and gets a few dunks to excite the fans and make them think he is good. He was good a role guy for Lakers not as a 40 Mins a game guy

Ariza doesn't play for the Rockets anymore.Houston has talented young players in Brooks, Budinger, and Patterson.They have quality vets in Martin, Scola, Battier, and Hayes. They have the Knicks next two 1st round picks, IIRC.I'll grant you Amare being the best player between the two teams, but the rest of the rosters would see the ROckets having 7 of the next 10 best players, IMO.

Abraham, i havent really paid much attention to NBA news since Knicks got Amare.You guys are better off without Ariza, no idea who you got for him even. But come on the Knicks would not trade Gallo for anyone on your roster besides Brooks and even that is a maybe since we got Felton. IMO, no BS here Knicks easily win 40 games in top heavy eastern conference while Rockets will be about a 35 win team thus making Knicks pick worse. With the Miami 3 happening it knocked two teams in the 40+ wins column. Raptors and Cavs into the 20 win column and Knicks with improvements will easily coast above those teamsEast has so many horrible teams even without a super season, Knicks should easily be better then , Cavs, Raptors, Sixers, Bobcats, Nets and a few more

 

[cubd8]

If Melo wants NY, then he will be traded to NY, that simple.He is not going to Houston, they dont have a better future then NY does and he has no desire to play in the West

I agree that he isn't going to Houston, but how on earth can you think that "they don't have a better future then NY does?" They have more, better players and finished 42-40 last season. They have the Knicks upcoming picks as well, so the only way NYK conceivably could have a brighter future then the Rockets is if 25 other teams ceased to exist.

Um, Knicks totally revamped, have a top 15 player in Amare, young solid players like Anthony Randolph and Gallo that are getting better, plus they have solid other guys like Felton, Wilson Chandler and that Russian center who looks goodYao can not be counted on, what do Houston really have going for them? Brooks is decent far from a star, Martin is an average player on a good team, Ariza is a facade IMO, he shoots horribly and gets a few dunks to excite the fans and make them think he is good. He was good a role guy for Lakers not as a 40 Mins a game guyWhen i said NY i was including Nets anda Knicks, but Houston is just a bargaining tool Denver is using to extort more out of Knicks and Nets

The Knicks are a #7 or #8 type team in the East.

 

[Abraham]

You guys are better off without Ariza, no idea who you got for him even. But come on the Knicks would not trade Gallo for anyone on your roster besides Brooks and even that is a maybe since we got Felton.

Ariza for Courtney Lee.Here is how I see the players ranking uin terms of immediate performanceusing Bill Simmons "the higher ranked guy wouldn't be traded for the lower guy straight up, but if the team owning the lower ranked guy were offered the higher guy they would seriously consider the deal...:1. Amare2. Martin3. Brooks4. Danilo5. Scola6. Budinger7. Chandler8. Lowry9. Felton10. Battier

IMO, no BS here Knicks easily win 40 games in top heavy eastern conference while Rockets will be about a 35 win team thus making Knicks pick worse. With the Miami 3 happening it knocked two teams in the 40+ wins column. Raptors and Cavs into the 20 win column and Knicks with improvements will easily coast above those teams

Maybe the Knicks win 40, but I'm not sure why the Rockets would regress frm 42 wins to the range of 35. They have added Courtney Lee, Patrick Patterson, Brad Miller, and Yao and have lost Trevor Ariza and David Anderson. So they have a better team (or at least a deeper team) then last season.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

If Melo wants NY, then he will be traded to NY, that simple.He is not going to Houston, they dont have a better future then NY does and he has no desire to play in the West

I agree that he isn't going to Houston, but how on earth can you think that "they don't have a better future then NY does?" They have more, better players and finished 42-40 last season. They have the Knicks upcoming picks as well, so the only way NYK conceivably could have a brighter future then the Rockets is if 25 other teams ceased to exist.

Um, Knicks totally revamped, have a top 15 player in Amare, young solid players like Anthony Randolph and Gallo that are getting better, plus they have solid other guys like Felton, Wilson Chandler and that Russian center who looks goodYao can not be counted on, what do Houston really have going for them? Brooks is decent far from a star, Martin is an average player on a good team, Ariza is a facade IMO, he shoots horribly and gets a few dunks to excite the fans and make them think he is good. He was good a role guy for Lakers not as a 40 Mins a game guyWhen i said NY i was including Nets anda Knicks, but Houston is just a bargaining tool Denver is using to extort more out of Knicks and Nets

The Knicks are a #7 or #8 type team in the East.

That is their ceiling.

 

[biggamer3]

You guys are better off without Ariza, no idea who you got for him even. But come on the Knicks would not trade Gallo for anyone on your roster besides Brooks and even that is a maybe since we got Felton.

Ariza for Courtney Lee.Here is how I see the players ranking uin terms of immediate performanceusing Bill Simmons "the higher ranked guy wouldn't be traded for the lower guy straight up, but if the team owning the lower ranked guy were offered the higher guy they would seriously consider the deal...:

1. Amare

2. Martin

3. Brooks

4. Danilo

5. Scola

6. Budinger

7. Chandler

8. Lowry

9. Felton

10. Battier

IMO, no BS here Knicks easily win 40 games in top heavy eastern conference while Rockets will be about a 35 win team thus making Knicks pick worse. With the Miami 3 happening it knocked two teams in the 40+ wins column. Raptors and Cavs into the 20 win column and Knicks with improvements will easily coast above those teams

Maybe the Knicks win 40, but I'm not sure why the Rockets would regress frm 42 wins to the range of 35. They have added Courtney Lee, Patrick Patterson, Brad Miller, and Yao and have lost Trevor Ariza and David Anderson. So they have a better team (or at least a deeper team) then last season.

So they have added nobody is what you are saying?Don't want to knock you but you leaving Anthony Randolph off the list is an abomination. Ask any sane Knicks fan if they would rather AR or Chandler, 99 of 100 would tell you AR. Kid is still 21, was a lottery pick, played extremely well in limited minutes but since he was in Donnie Darkos doghouse he never played enough. That wont happen with Dantoni who will play him 30+ mins

Budinger is the second coming of that readhead on the Celtics nothing more

Battier can play some D but is a role player. If i was the Rockets GM i would clearly have Scola higher on that list then Martin, Scola is a very solid player, martin is a one dimensional chucker and cant play a lick of D

 

[Abraham]

So they have added nobody is what you are saying?

Chuck Hayes played center last season. Chuck Hayes is 6'4. So having Miller and Yao, even at 60% of their peaks is an improvement at center.

Don't want to knock you but you leaving Anthony Randolph off the list is an abomination. Ask any sane Knicks fan if they would rather AR or Chandler, 99 of 100 would tell you AR. Kid is still 21, was a lottery pick, played extremely well in limited minutes but since he was in Donnie Darkos doghouse he never played enough. That wont happen with Dantoni who will play him 30+ mins

My mistake. SHouldn't have left him off.

Budinger is the second coming of that readhead on the Celtics nothing more

This is an ignorant statement and confirms that you don't watch basketball. Brian Scalabrine ("that redhead on the Celtics") is a 6'9 forward that averages a point and a rebound per game in about 8 minutes of work. Budinger is a 6'7 SG/SF type that averaged 9ppg and 3 rpg as a rookie, getting better as the season wore on. He was the #3 high school player in his class (Oden, Durant) and may have been a lotto pick if he'd come out earlier.

Battier can play some D but is a role player. If i was the Rockets GM i would clearly have Scola higher on that list then Martin, Scola is a very solid player, martin is a one dimensional chucker and cant play a lick of D

Battier is a little older, whidh is why I had him lower.

 

[Walton Goggins]

If Melo wants NY, then he will be traded to NY, that simple.

He is not going to Houston, they dont have a better future then NY does and he has no desire to play in the West

I agree that he isn't going to Houston, but how on earth can you think that "they don't have a better future then NY does?" They have more, better players and finished 42-40 last season. They have the Knicks upcoming picks as well, so the only way NYK conceivably could have a brighter future then the Rockets is if 25 other teams ceased to exist.

Um, Knicks totally revamped, have a top 15 player in Amare, young solid players like Anthony Randolph and Gallo that are getting better, plus they have solid other guys like Felton, Wilson Chandler and that Russian center who looks goodYao can not be counted on, what do Houston really have going for them? Brooks is decent far from a star, Martin is an average player on a good team, Ariza is a facade IMO, he shoots horribly and gets a few dunks to excite the fans and make them think he is good. He was good a role guy for Lakers not as a 40 Mins a game guy

When i said NY i was including Nets anda Knicks, but Houston is just a bargaining tool Denver is using to extort more out of Knicks and Nets

Not talking about SAC

 

[Walton Goggins]

Yao can not be counted on, what do Houston really have going for them? Brooks is decent far from a star, Martin is an average player on a good team, Ariza is a facade IMO, he shoots horribly and gets a few dunks to excite the fans and make them think he is good. He was good a role guy for Lakers not as a 40 Mins a game guy

Ariza doesn't play for the Rockets anymore.Houston has talented young players in Brooks, Budinger, and Patterson.They have quality vets in Martin, Scola, Battier, and Hayes. They have the Knicks next two 1st round picks, IIRC.I'll grant you Amare being the best player between the two teams, but the rest of the rosters would see the ROckets having 7 of the next 10 best players, IMO.

Abraham, i havent really paid much attention to NBA news since Knicks got Amare.You guys are better off without Ariza, no idea who you got for him even. But come on the Knicks would not trade Gallo for anyone on your roster besides Brooks and even that is a maybe since we got Felton. IMO, no BS here Knicks easily win 40 games in top heavy eastern conference while Rockets will be about a 35 win team thus making Knicks pick worse. With the Miami 3 happening it knocked two teams in the 40+ wins column. Raptors and Cavs into the 20 win column and Knicks with improvements will easily coast above those teamsEast has so many horrible teams even without a super season, Knicks should easily be better then , Cavs, Raptors, Sixers, Bobcats, Nets and a few more

Knicks blow, seriously. Rockets w/o a star player can win around 50 games in the West. Knicks are a hopeless organization that will never put it together as long as they have those clowns running it.

 

[Master of Past and Present]

So they have added nobody is what you are saying?

Chuck Hayes played center last season. Chuck Hayes is 6'4. So having Miller and Yao, even at 60% of their peaks is an improvement at center.

Don't want to knock you but you leaving Anthony Randolph off the list is an abomination. Ask any sane Knicks fan if they would rather AR or Chandler, 99 of 100 would tell you AR. Kid is still 21, was a lottery pick, played extremely well in limited minutes but since he was in Donnie Darkos doghouse he never played enough. That wont happen with Dantoni who will play him 30+ mins

My mistake. SHouldn't have left him off.

Budinger is the second coming of that readhead on the Celtics nothing more

This is an ignorant statement and confirms that you don't watch basketball. Brian Scalabrine ("that redhead on the Celtics") is a 6'9 forward that averages a point and a rebound per game in about 8 minutes of work. Budinger is a 6'7 SG/SF type that averaged 9ppg and 3 rpg as a rookie, getting better as the season wore on. He was the #3 high school player in his class (Oden, Durant) and may have been a lotto pick if he'd come out earlier.

Battier can play some D but is a role player. If i was the Rockets GM i would clearly have Scola higher on that list then Martin, Scola is a very solid player, martin is a one dimensional chucker and cant play a lick of D

Battier is a little older, whidh is why I had him lower.

Really shouldn't say someone else's statement is ignorant when throwing around high school class rankings in the same paragraph. Maybe the Rockets should try and trade for Josh McRoberts, he was #2 in the class before Oden and co!

 

[Abraham]

Really shouldn't say someone else's statement is ignorant when throwing around high school class rankings in the same paragraph. Maybe the Rockets should try and trade for Josh McRoberts, he was #2 in the class before Oden and co!

I think you don't understand what "ignorant" means, which makes your post even funnier.

 

[Kev4029]

Carmelo to the Nets?

Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy's and Kris Humphries' expiring deals and a first-round draft pick to Denver.

Link

That would be a disappointment. And I'm not sure Humphries would even be necessary, between Murphy and Favors they would have over 16 mill in salary. Something like that makes me think whoever the source is for ESPN is just looking to make more of a story. If he wasn't necessary in the trade, I can't imagine Denver would want him because that would give the Nuggets 6 PFs (Harrington, Balkman, Martin plus the new guys) and two PFs (Nene and Anderson) masquerading as centers and I would think the Nets would really like to keep him so they don't trade all three of their PFs away.Do the Nets have any picks from other teams, or just their own over the next two or three years?

Nets have Golden State's 1st rd pick protected 1-7 in 2012Nets are trading a lot in that deal but I would probably do it to get a superstar like Carmello to team with Harris/Lopez....if I were the Nets GM I would try to play hardball and keep Favors out but in the end if it was Favors orno deal I would probably relent.....Favors couldbe next Howard or Kwame...you take the sure thing IMO

Trading Favors (#3 pick in an average draft), salary fillers and a future first rounder is a lot? You would figure that the Nets pick, if they trade one of their picks, would be in the back half of the draft and probably even in the 20s after getting Melo for a full season to team with Lopez and Harris. Hypothetically, would you trade one year of Murphy + Howard (Favor's Ceiling) + Francisco Garcia (Pick 23 in 2005 for the Kings who won 50 games which is close to what the Nets would get with Melo) for Melo? Nope, but it wouldn't be the heist of the century.

How bout one year of Murphy + Sam Dalembert circa 2007 (Favor's Floor) + Morris Almond (Pick 25 in 2007 for 51 win Jazz)? Hell yeah!

Last, How bout one year of Murphy + Emeka Okafor (between his floor and ceiling) + Kyle Lowry (Pick 24 in 2006 to 49 win Grizz)? Absolutely.

The only way that trade ends up as a bad trade for the Nets is if Favors completely pans out, which I don't think he will. Likely its a great trade long term for the Nets.

How bout

 

[Kev4029]

You guys are better off without Ariza, no idea who you got for him even. But come on the Knicks would not trade Gallo for anyone on your roster besides Brooks and even that is a maybe since we got Felton.

Ariza for Courtney Lee.Here is how I see the players ranking uin terms of immediate performanceusing Bill Simmons "the higher ranked guy wouldn't be traded for the lower guy straight up, but if the team owning the lower ranked guy were offered the higher guy they would seriously consider the deal...:

1. Amare

2. Martin

3. Brooks

4. Danilo

5. Scola

6. Budinger

7. Chandler

8. Lowry

9. Felton

10. Battier

IMO, no BS here Knicks easily win 40 games in top heavy eastern conference while Rockets will be about a 35 win team thus making Knicks pick worse. With the Miami 3 happening it knocked two teams in the 40+ wins column. Raptors and Cavs into the 20 win column and Knicks with improvements will easily coast above those teams

Maybe the Knicks win 40, but I'm not sure why the Rockets would regress frm 42 wins to the range of 35. They have added Courtney Lee, Patrick Patterson, Brad Miller, and Yao and have lost Trevor Ariza and David Anderson. So they have a better team (or at least a deeper team) then last season.

So they have added nobody is what you are saying?Don't want to knock you but you leaving Anthony Randolph off the list is an abomination. Ask any sane Knicks fan if they would rather AR or Chandler, 99 of 100 would tell you AR. Kid is still 21, was a lottery pick, played extremely well in limited minutes but since he was in Donnie Darkos doghouse he never played enough. That wont happen with Dantoni who will play him 30+ mins

Budinger is the second coming of that readhead on the Celtics nothing more

Battier can play some D but is a role player. If i was the Rockets GM i would clearly have Scola higher on that list then Martin, Scola is a very solid player, martin is a one dimensional chucker and cant play a lick of D

I don't want to make a habit out of agreeing with the Rockets fans in here, but you have no idea what you're talking about. The Knicks may have a good future, but I highly doubt anything special is coming from them anytime in the near future. For the Knicks to be a better team than the Rockets in the next few years they are going to need a lot of improvement from their youngsters. Gallo has a pretty jumper, but is possibly the worst rebounding and defending PF in the league, and with a bum back is unlikely to ever improve much in those categories. Randolph can't stay healthy and has shown no ability to effectively score in the NBA, at this point he is a poor man's version of Marcus Camby. Chandler is slowly improving, but can't shoot and is both an average rebounder and defender. Douglas could be a very good player in this league, and I loved the pick of him by the Knicks, he could develop into an average starting PG who can defend and hit the 3.

If those 4 young guys all improve they still will be a mediocre team in 3-4 years because Amare is going to be 31 or 32 with crap legs getting paid $20 million. In the 2014-2015 season, at best, I see him as the 32 year old Antonio Mcdyess, who like Amare was a super athlete who developed a nice jumper and had bad knees. The difference being Mcdyess is/was a willing defender.

Does a team of mid career Derek Fisher (Douglas), Wilson Chandler (I think what you see at this point is what you get), Detlef Schrempf (Gallinari), washed up McDyess (Amare) and mid career Marcus Camby get 50 wins?

 

[wikkidpissah]

Not sure about the Randolph love. The talent is doubtless but, the way i hear it, while the short-timing did come from Donnie (and the talking whiskey bottle on his shoulder that gives him strategic advice), the impetus behind it came from his Warrior teammates. I havent watched him play enough to confirm it, but its said that Randolph sucks all the oxygen away from those on the floor with him. Alternating between loafing & taking over, paying no attention at all to his teammates and showing up his own guys more than his opponents. For my money, he's the perfect Knick....

 

[simmonjm]

I don't want to make a habit out of agreeing with the Rockets fans in here, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

The Knicks may have a good future, but I highly doubt anything special is coming from them anytime in the near future. For the Knicks to be a better team than the Rockets in the next few years they are going to need a lot of improvement from their youngsters. Gallo has a pretty jumper, but is possibly the worst rebounding and defending PF in the league, and with a bum back is unlikely to ever improve much in those categories. Randolph can't stay healthy and has shown no ability to effectively score in the NBA, at this point he is a poor man's version of Marcus Camby. Chandler is slowly improving, but can't shoot and is both an average rebounder and defender. Douglas could be a very good player in this league, and I loved the pick of him by the Knicks, he could develop into an average starting PG who can defend and hit the 3.

If those 4 young guys all improve they still will be a mediocre team in 3-4 years because Amare is going to be 31 or 32 with crap legs getting paid $20 million. In the 2014-2015 season, at best, I see him as the 32 year old Antonio Mcdyess, who like Amare was a super athlete who developed a nice jumper and had bad knees. The difference being Mcdyess is/was a willing defender.

Does a team of mid career Derek Fisher (Douglas), Wilson Chandler (I think what you see at this point is what you get), Detlef Schrempf (Gallinari), washed up McDyess (Amare) and mid career Marcus Camby get 50 wins?

Gallo didnt miss any games last year due to the back injury it was the year previous. Randolph could really blossom in D'antoni uptempo offense same goes for Felton. In my mind Felton is the x-factor for this team not Randolph. Upgrading Duhon and Lee for Stoudemire and Felton is massive not even factoring the development of Gallinari, Chandler, and Douglas. I realize the Knicks have been bad for a long time but they are finally turning things around. How in the hell do you consider Amare a washed up McDyess? Did you not see the playoffs last year? He is the best low scoring big man in the NBA period. Since your throwing out myths why not classify Amare as injury prone since he missed so many games last year.

My only concern going into the new season is the D'antoni rotation. His rotations have been maddening to say the least and he seems to hold a grudge against players. Hopefully Randolph stays out of the doghouse and on the court.

 

[Kev4029]

I don't want to make a habit out of agreeing with the Rockets fans in here, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

The Knicks may have a good future, but I highly doubt anything special is coming from them anytime in the near future. For the Knicks to be a better team than the Rockets in the next few years they are going to need a lot of improvement from their youngsters. Gallo has a pretty jumper, but is possibly the worst rebounding and defending PF in the league, and with a bum back is unlikely to ever improve much in those categories. Randolph can't stay healthy and has shown no ability to effectively score in the NBA, at this point he is a poor man's version of Marcus Camby. Chandler is slowly improving, but can't shoot and is both an average rebounder and defender. Douglas could be a very good player in this league, and I loved the pick of him by the Knicks, he could develop into an average starting PG who can defend and hit the 3.

If those 4 young guys all improve they still will be a mediocre team in 3-4 years because Amare is going to be 31 or 32 with crap legs getting paid $20 million. In the 2014-2015 season, at best, I see him as the 32 year old Antonio Mcdyess, who like Amare was a super athlete who developed a nice jumper and had bad knees. The difference being Mcdyess is/was a willing defender.

Does a team of mid career Derek Fisher (Douglas), Wilson Chandler (I think what you see at this point is what you get), Detlef Schrempf (Gallinari), washed up McDyess (Amare) and mid career Marcus Camby get 50 wins?

Gallo didnt miss any games last year due to the back injury it was the year previous. Randolph could really blossom in D'antoni uptempo offense same goes for Felton. In my mind Felton is the x-factor for this team not Randolph. Upgrading Duhon and Lee for Stoudemire and Felton is massive not even factoring the development of Gallinari, Chandler, and Douglas. I realize the Knicks have been bad for a long time but they are finally turning things around. How in the hell do you consider Amare a washed up McDyess? Did you not see the playoffs last year? He is the best low scoring big man in the NBA period. Since your throwing out myths why not classify Amare as injury prone since he missed so many games last year.

My only concern going into the new season is the D'antoni rotation. His rotations have been maddening to say the least and he seems to hold a grudge against players. Hopefully Randolph stays out of the doghouse and on the court.

Hes not washed up yet, but by the middle of the contract he will be. Micro fracture is something we don't know a whole lot about long term, but as I understand it, its a temporary solution to a permanent problem and eventually he'll develop arthritis and his knee will be bone on bone again. Amare is a good mid range shooter for a big man, but if he is loses his very much athleticism due to his knee combined with his increasing age (He'll be 28 in November) he is going to have a hard time being an impact player because he is a bad defender and rebounder. The Knicks better get what they can while they can.While Gallinari didn't miss time because of his back, it makes him an less athletic player that he already is. This team badly needs Randolph to play 35 minutes a game and rebound his ### off because if he can't stay healthy they may have one of the worst rebounding teams in recent memory with Gallo, Turiaf, and Amare seeing lots of front court duty. While Amare may be a better player than Lee, especially defensively, I think the rebounding differences will really hurt the Knicks, and Lee and Amare are equals at diving on the pick and roll which is a big part of this offense. Lee put up 20 and 12 last year, I expect Amare to put up similar numbers to last year (23 and 9) with better (less terrible really) defense than Lee. The sign and trade brought in some good talent/prospects for Lee, but Amare in no way is worth 6 million dollars more than Lee (8 million in year 5).

The NBA will be laughing again at the Knicks when they are paying Amare $45 million over the final two crippled years of his contract, completely killing any would be cap space, while the Warriors are paying Lee $30 million for far better and healthier production.

 

[Major]

If Melo wants NY, then he will be traded to NY, that simple.

He is not going to Houston, they dont have a better future then NY does and he has no desire to play in the West

 

[No. 16]

I don't want to make a habit out of agreeing with the Rockets fans in here, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

The Knicks may have a good future, but I highly doubt anything special is coming from them anytime in the near future. For the Knicks to be a better team than the Rockets in the next few years they are going to need a lot of improvement from their youngsters. Gallo has a pretty jumper, but is possibly the worst rebounding and defending PF in the league, and with a bum back is unlikely to ever improve much in those categories. Randolph can't stay healthy and has shown no ability to effectively score in the NBA, at this point he is a poor man's version of Marcus Camby. Chandler is slowly improving, but can't shoot and is both an average rebounder and defender. Douglas could be a very good player in this league, and I loved the pick of him by the Knicks, he could develop into an average starting PG who can defend and hit the 3.

If those 4 young guys all improve they still will be a mediocre team in 3-4 years because Amare is going to be 31 or 32 with crap legs getting paid $20 million. In the 2014-2015 season, at best, I see him as the 32 year old Antonio Mcdyess, who like Amare was a super athlete who developed a nice jumper and had bad knees. The difference being Mcdyess is/was a willing defender.

Does a team of mid career Derek Fisher (Douglas), Wilson Chandler (I think what you see at this point is what you get), Detlef Schrempf (Gallinari), washed up McDyess (Amare) and mid career Marcus Camby get 50 wins?

Gallo didnt miss any games last year due to the back injury it was the year previous. Randolph could really blossom in D'antoni uptempo offense same goes for Felton. In my mind Felton is the x-factor for this team not Randolph. Upgrading Duhon and Lee for Stoudemire and Felton is massive not even factoring the development of Gallinari, Chandler, and Douglas. I realize the Knicks have been bad for a long time but they are finally turning things around. How in the hell do you consider Amare a washed up McDyess? Did you not see the playoffs last year? He is the best low scoring big man in the NBA period. Since your throwing out myths why not classify Amare as injury prone since he missed so many games last year.

My only concern going into the new season is the D'antoni rotation. His rotations have been maddening to say the least and he seems to hold a grudge against players. Hopefully Randolph stays out of the doghouse and on the court.

Hes not washed up yet, but by the middle of the contract he will be. Micro fracture is something we don't know a whole lot about long term, but as I understand it, its a temporary solution to a permanent problem and eventually he'll develop arthritis and his knee will be bone on bone again. Amare is a good mid range shooter for a big man, but if he is loses his very much athleticism due to his knee combined with his increasing age (He'll be 28 in November) he is going to have a hard time being an impact player because he is a bad defender and rebounder. The Knicks better get what they can while they can.While Gallinari didn't miss time because of his back, it makes him an less athletic player that he already is. This team badly needs Randolph to play 35 minutes a game and rebound his ### off because if he can't stay healthy they may have one of the worst rebounding teams in recent memory with Gallo, Turiaf, and Amare seeing lots of front court duty. While Amare may be a better player than Lee, especially defensively, I think the rebounding differences will really hurt the Knicks, and Lee and Amare are equals at diving on the pick and roll which is a big part of this offense. Lee put up 20 and 12 last year, I expect Amare to put up similar numbers to last year (23 and 9) with better (less terrible really) defense than Lee. The sign and trade brought in some good talent/prospects for Lee, but Amare in no way is worth 6 million dollars more than Lee (8 million in year 5).

The NBA will be laughing again at the Knicks when they are paying Amare $45 million over the final two crippled years of his contract, completely killing any would be cap space, while the Warriors are paying Lee $30 million for far better and healthier production.

Great posting. Amare is not that much better than Lee on the court and when you consider contracts and durability, I would take David Lee for my NBA team unless the rest of my front court was Bill Russell at C and Dennis Rodman at SF.

 

[No. 16]

I don't want to make a habit out of agreeing with the Rockets fans in here, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

The Knicks may have a good future, but I highly doubt anything special is coming from them anytime in the near future. For the Knicks to be a better team than the Rockets in the next few years they are going to need a lot of improvement from their youngsters. Gallo has a pretty jumper, but is possibly the worst rebounding and defending PF in the league, and with a bum back is unlikely to ever improve much in those categories. Randolph can't stay healthy and has shown no ability to effectively score in the NBA, at this point he is a poor man's version of Marcus Camby. Chandler is slowly improving, but can't shoot and is both an average rebounder and defender. Douglas could be a very good player in this league, and I loved the pick of him by the Knicks, he could develop into an average starting PG who can defend and hit the 3.

If those 4 young guys all improve they still will be a mediocre team in 3-4 years because Amare is going to be 31 or 32 with crap legs getting paid $20 million. In the 2014-2015 season, at best, I see him as the 32 year old Antonio Mcdyess, who like Amare was a super athlete who developed a nice jumper and had bad knees. The difference being Mcdyess is/was a willing defender.

Does a team of mid career Derek Fisher (Douglas), Wilson Chandler (I think what you see at this point is what you get), Detlef Schrempf (Gallinari), washed up McDyess (Amare) and mid career Marcus Camby get 50 wins?

Gallo didnt miss any games last year due to the back injury it was the year previous. Randolph could really blossom in D'antoni uptempo offense same goes for Felton. In my mind Felton is the x-factor for this team not Randolph. Upgrading Duhon and Lee for Stoudemire and Felton is massive not even factoring the development of Gallinari, Chandler, and Douglas. I realize the Knicks have been bad for a long time but they are finally turning things around. How in the hell do you consider Amare a washed up McDyess? Did you not see the playoffs last year? He is the best low scoring big man in the NBA period. Since your throwing out myths why not classify Amare as injury prone since he missed so many games last year.

My only concern going into the new season is the D'antoni rotation. His rotations have been maddening to say the least and he seems to hold a grudge against players. Hopefully Randolph stays out of the doghouse and on the court.

This part is what cracks me up. Anthony Randolph was in DON NELSON'S DOGHOUSE!DON FREAKIN NELSON!

Nellie gets a lot of crap thrown his way, but he's the ultimate players' coach. If you're in his doghouse, you must really suck because Nelson will play anyone regardless of draft status or contract.

He's a man who coexisted with Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, AND Matt Barnes. None of those guys saw a 3 pointer they didn't like and all 3 are pretty damn crazy.

People will then say Nelson doesn't like rookies and especially rookie big men, but he played Billy Owens and Chris Webber 30+ minutes a year. "But" people will say those guys had college experience. So how do you explain Dirk Nowitzki averaging 20 mpg as a rookie to 35 mpg as a sophomore? After that Nelson detractors will say those guys were all high lottery picks, well how do you explain Anthony Tolliver, CJ Watson, Anthony Morrow, Kelenna Azubuike, and now Reggie Williams. All NBA D-Leaguers who have long term NBA contracts thanks to Nellie.

So to all the Knicks fans... if a player is the Don Nelson doghouse.... that should be a huge red flag.

 

[Kiddnets]

Nets making their move?

Chris Broussard reports that the Nets are doing whatever they can - short of putting Brook Lopez on the table - to get Carmelo Anthony from the Nuggets. They spent all day Wednesday looking for other teams to help them get a deal done with the Nuggets.

Broussard notes that a two-team deal that sends Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy, Kris Humphries and a pick to Denver "is not going to happen," and that the Nets still have no guarantee that Anthony would sign an extension to stay in New Jersey beyond this season.

In Denver, Sandy Clough of 104.3 The Fan told Andrew Feinstein of Denver Stiffs that he's heard the third team may be Utah. In the scenario Clough said came from a "good source", Anthony and Kenyon Martin would go to New Jersey; Favors, Andrei Kirilenko and two first round picks would go to Denver and Devin Harris would leave for Utah.

 

[Abraham]

Nets making their move? Chris Broussard reports that the Nets are doing whatever they can - short of putting Brook Lopez on the table - to get Carmelo Anthony from the Nuggets. They spent all day Wednesday looking for other teams to help them get a deal done with the Nuggets.Broussard notes that a two-team deal that sends Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy, Kris Humphries and a pick to Denver "is not going to happen," and that the Nets still have no guarantee that Anthony would sign an extension to stay in New Jersey beyond this season.In Denver, Sandy Clough of 104.3 The Fan told Andrew Feinstein of Denver Stiffs that he's heard the third team may be Utah. In the scenario Clough said came from a "good source", Anthony and Kenyon Martin would go to New Jersey; Favors, Andrei Kirilenko and two first round picks would go to Denver and Devin Harris would leave for Utah.

Why would Utah want Devin Harris?

 

[Kiddnets]

Nets making their move? Chris Broussard reports that the Nets are doing whatever they can - short of putting Brook Lopez on the table - to get Carmelo Anthony from the Nuggets. They spent all day Wednesday looking for other teams to help them get a deal done with the Nuggets.Broussard notes that a two-team deal that sends Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy, Kris Humphries and a pick to Denver "is not going to happen," and that the Nets still have no guarantee that Anthony would sign an extension to stay in New Jersey beyond this season.In Denver, Sandy Clough of 104.3 The Fan told Andrew Feinstein of Denver Stiffs that he's heard the third team may be Utah. In the scenario Clough said came from a "good source", Anthony and Kenyon Martin would go to New Jersey; Favors, Andrei Kirilenko and two first round picks would go to Denver and Devin Harris would leave for Utah.

Why would Utah want Devin Harris?

Maybe just to get rid of Kirlenko? It is an odd pairing

 

[simmonjm]

I don't want to make a habit out of agreeing with the Rockets fans in here, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

The Knicks may have a good future, but I highly doubt anything special is coming from them anytime in the near future. For the Knicks to be a better team than the Rockets in the next few years they are going to need a lot of improvement from their youngsters. Gallo has a pretty jumper, but is possibly the worst rebounding and defending PF in the league, and with a bum back is unlikely to ever improve much in those categories. Randolph can't stay healthy and has shown no ability to effectively score in the NBA, at this point he is a poor man's version of Marcus Camby. Chandler is slowly improving, but can't shoot and is both an average rebounder and defender. Douglas could be a very good player in this league, and I loved the pick of him by the Knicks, he could develop into an average starting PG who can defend and hit the 3.

If those 4 young guys all improve they still will be a mediocre team in 3-4 years because Amare is going to be 31 or 32 with crap legs getting paid $20 million. In the 2014-2015 season, at best, I see him as the 32 year old Antonio Mcdyess, who like Amare was a super athlete who developed a nice jumper and had bad knees. The difference being Mcdyess is/was a willing defender.

Does a team of mid career Derek Fisher (Douglas), Wilson Chandler (I think what you see at this point is what you get), Detlef Schrempf (Gallinari), washed up McDyess (Amare) and mid career Marcus Camby get 50 wins?

Gallo didnt miss any games last year due to the back injury it was the year previous. Randolph could really blossom in D'antoni uptempo offense same goes for Felton. In my mind Felton is the x-factor for this team not Randolph. Upgrading Duhon and Lee for Stoudemire and Felton is massive not even factoring the development of Gallinari, Chandler, and Douglas. I realize the Knicks have been bad for a long time but they are finally turning things around. How in the hell do you consider Amare a washed up McDyess? Did you not see the playoffs last year? He is the best low scoring big man in the NBA period. Since your throwing out myths why not classify Amare as injury prone since he missed so many games last year.

My only concern going into the new season is the D'antoni rotation. His rotations have been maddening to say the least and he seems to hold a grudge against players. Hopefully Randolph stays out of the doghouse and on the court.

Hes not washed up yet, but by the middle of the contract he will be. Micro fracture is something we don't know a whole lot about long term, but as I understand it, its a temporary solution to a permanent problem and eventually he'll develop arthritis and his knee will be bone on bone again. Amare is a good mid range shooter for a big man, but if he is loses his very much athleticism due to his knee combined with his increasing age (He'll be 28 in November) he is going to have a hard time being an impact player because he is a bad defender and rebounder. The Knicks better get what they can while they can.While Gallinari didn't miss time because of his back, it makes him an less athletic player that he already is. This team badly needs Randolph to play 35 minutes a game and rebound his ### off because if he can't stay healthy they may have one of the worst rebounding teams in recent memory with Gallo, Turiaf, and Amare seeing lots of front court duty. While Amare may be a better player than Lee, especially defensively, I think the rebounding differences will really hurt the Knicks, and Lee and Amare are equals at diving on the pick and roll which is a big part of this offense. Lee put up 20 and 12 last year, I expect Amare to put up similar numbers to last year (23 and 9) with better (less terrible really) defense than Lee. The sign and trade brought in some good talent/prospects for Lee, but Amare in no way is worth 6 million dollars more than Lee (8 million in year 5).

The NBA will be laughing again at the Knicks when they are paying Amare $45 million over the final two crippled years of his contract, completely killing any would be cap space, while the Warriors are paying Lee $30 million for far better and healthier production.

David Lee would be a great player on a team like the Bulls where he has Noah who is a defensive presence. Lee will fit right in GSW with his allergy to defense, I will be surprised if teams dont average 105+ against them. Your kidding yourself if you think Lee is a better fit than Amare in any offense. In the recent FA signings teams were throwing money at players like it was nothing so this 6 million your talking about has little value. Hell Travis Outlaw signed for 7 million a year. So go ahead and keep your David Lee and Travis Outlaw combo I would be much more content with Amare.

 

[No. 16]

I don't want to make a habit out of agreeing with the Rockets fans in here, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

The Knicks may have a good future, but I highly doubt anything special is coming from them anytime in the near future. For the Knicks to be a better team than the Rockets in the next few years they are going to need a lot of improvement from their youngsters. Gallo has a pretty jumper, but is possibly the worst rebounding and defending PF in the league, and with a bum back is unlikely to ever improve much in those categories. Randolph can't stay healthy and has shown no ability to effectively score in the NBA, at this point he is a poor man's version of Marcus Camby. Chandler is slowly improving, but can't shoot and is both an average rebounder and defender. Douglas could be a very good player in this league, and I loved the pick of him by the Knicks, he could develop into an average starting PG who can defend and hit the 3.

If those 4 young guys all improve they still will be a mediocre team in 3-4 years because Amare is going to be 31 or 32 with crap legs getting paid $20 million. In the 2014-2015 season, at best, I see him as the 32 year old Antonio Mcdyess, who like Amare was a super athlete who developed a nice jumper and had bad knees. The difference being Mcdyess is/was a willing defender.

Does a team of mid career Derek Fisher (Douglas), Wilson Chandler (I think what you see at this point is what you get), Detlef Schrempf (Gallinari), washed up McDyess (Amare) and mid career Marcus Camby get 50 wins?

Gallo didnt miss any games last year due to the back injury it was the year previous. Randolph could really blossom in D'antoni uptempo offense same goes for Felton. In my mind Felton is the x-factor for this team not Randolph. Upgrading Duhon and Lee for Stoudemire and Felton is massive not even factoring the development of Gallinari, Chandler, and Douglas. I realize the Knicks have been bad for a long time but they are finally turning things around. How in the hell do you consider Amare a washed up McDyess? Did you not see the playoffs last year? He is the best low scoring big man in the NBA period. Since your throwing out myths why not classify Amare as injury prone since he missed so many games last year.

My only concern going into the new season is the D'antoni rotation. His rotations have been maddening to say the least and he seems to hold a grudge against players. Hopefully Randolph stays out of the doghouse and on the court.

Hes not washed up yet, but by the middle of the contract he will be. Micro fracture is something we don't know a whole lot about long term, but as I understand it, its a temporary solution to a permanent problem and eventually he'll develop arthritis and his knee will be bone on bone again. Amare is a good mid range shooter for a big man, but if he is loses his very much athleticism due to his knee combined with his increasing age (He'll be 28 in November) he is going to have a hard time being an impact player because he is a bad defender and rebounder. The Knicks better get what they can while they can.While Gallinari didn't miss time because of his back, it makes him an less athletic player that he already is. This team badly needs Randolph to play 35 minutes a game and rebound his ### off because if he can't stay healthy they may have one of the worst rebounding teams in recent memory with Gallo, Turiaf, and Amare seeing lots of front court duty. While Amare may be a better player than Lee, especially defensively, I think the rebounding differences will really hurt the Knicks, and Lee and Amare are equals at diving on the pick and roll which is a big part of this offense. Lee put up 20 and 12 last year, I expect Amare to put up similar numbers to last year (23 and 9) with better (less terrible really) defense than Lee. The sign and trade brought in some good talent/prospects for Lee, but Amare in no way is worth 6 million dollars more than Lee (8 million in year 5).

The NBA will be laughing again at the Knicks when they are paying Amare $45 million over the final two crippled years of his contract, completely killing any would be cap space, while the Warriors are paying Lee $30 million for far better and healthier production.

David Lee would be a great player on a team like the Bulls where he has Noah who is a defensive presence. Lee will fit right in GSW with his allergy to defense, I will be surprised if teams dont average 105+ against them. Your kidding yourself if you think Lee is a better fit than Amare in any offense. In the recent FA signings teams were throwing money at players like it was nothing so this 6 million your talking about has little value. Hell Travis Outlaw signed for 7 million a year. So go ahead and keep your David Lee and Travis Outlaw combo I would be much more content with Amare.

It will be tough to see how much of an impact swapping Lee for Amare has since NY brought in other pieces because they tried to finally build a team instead of a collection of expiring contracts, but I really don't think it's much of an upgrade and the stats seem to bear that out. Amare vs Lee 09-10

Both score highly efficiently with above average FG%, eFG%, and TS% and with decent volume both were 20 ppg scorers last year.

On offense, Amare has the edge scoring wise in ppg and the field %, but Lee has a better FT%, although he goes to the line a lot less, and he's a waaay better passer then Amare, so he makes us the raw point differential by assisting buckets.

On defense, Lee is a better rebounder and stealer while Amare is a better man defender and shot blocker.

If you look at there O-Rtg and D-Rtg (points score and allowed per 100 possessions):

Lee

O-Rtg - 116

D-Rtg - 108

Amare

O-Rtg - 117

D - Rtg - 109

So over 100 possession they would could out to be equals.

In a long winded way and with statistics to help support, both players are roughly equal IMO. Based solely on basketball impact I would take Amare over Lee, but when you factor in contracts and injury history I'd take in Lee over Amare every time. Plus Lee is a good locker room guy, who plays hard every play vs. Amare who can divided locker rooms and has a notorious "on/off" switch. While both were in contract years, I suspect Amare will come down further now that he has his fat $100 million dollar deal.

Regarding pairing Lee with a defensive presence like Noah, the Warriors do have Andris Biedrins/Lou Amoundson/Dan Gadzuric/Epke Udoh to slide next to him and while none are the defensive equals to Noah they are all defenders. Plus, David Lee is an instant upgrade over Anthony Tolliver and Corey Magette at PF and rumors are Nellie will likely be gone so the no defensive approach will be out the window.

 

[simmonjm]

It will be tough to see how much of an impact swapping Lee for Amare has since NY brought in other pieces because they tried to finally build a team instead of a collection of expiring contracts, but I really don't think it's much of an upgrade and the stats seem to bear that out.

Amare vs Lee 09-10

Both score highly efficiently with above average FG%, eFG%, and TS% and with decent volume both were 20 ppg scorers last year.

On offense, Amare has the edge scoring wise in ppg and the field %, but Lee has a better FT%, although he goes to the line a lot less, and he's a waaay better passer then Amare, so he makes us the raw point differential by assisting buckets.

On defense, Lee is a better rebounder and stealer while Amare is a better man defender and shot blocker.

If you look at there O-Rtg and D-Rtg (points score and allowed per 100 possessions):

Lee

O-Rtg - 116

D-Rtg - 108

Amare

O-Rtg - 117

D - Rtg - 109

So over 100 possession they would could out to be equals.

In a long winded way and with statistics to help support, both players are roughly equal IMO. Based solely on basketball impact I would take Amare over Lee, but when you factor in contracts and injury history I'd take in Lee over Amare every time. Plus Lee is a good locker room guy, who plays hard every play vs. Amare who can divided locker rooms and has a notorious "on/off" switch. While both were in contract years, I suspect Amare will come down further now that he has his fat $100 million dollar deal.

Regarding pairing Lee with a defensive presence like Noah, the Warriors do have Andris Biedrins/Lou Amoundson/Dan Gadzuric/Epke Udoh to slide next to him and while none are the defensive equals to Noah they are all defenders. Plus, David Lee is an instant upgrade over Anthony Tolliver and Corey Magette at PF and rumors are Nellie will likely be gone so the no defensive approach will be out the window.

I agree with the bolded replacing Harrington with Amare, Duhon with Felton, Lee with Turiaf, and the progression of Gallo and Will should make for a much improved team.

 

[No. 16]

It will be tough to see how much of an impact swapping Lee for Amare has since NY brought in other pieces because they tried to finally build a team instead of a collection of expiring contracts, but I really don't think it's much of an upgrade and the stats seem to bear that out.

Amare vs Lee 09-10

Both score highly efficiently with above average FG%, eFG%, and TS% and with decent volume both were 20 ppg scorers last year.

On offense, Amare has the edge scoring wise in ppg and the field %, but Lee has a better FT%, although he goes to the line a lot less, and he's a waaay better passer then Amare, so he makes us the raw point differential by assisting buckets.

On defense, Lee is a better rebounder and stealer while Amare is a better man defender and shot blocker.

If you look at there O-Rtg and D-Rtg (points score and allowed per 100 possessions):

Lee

O-Rtg - 116

D-Rtg - 108

Amare

O-Rtg - 117

D - Rtg - 109

So over 100 possession they would could out to be equals.

In a long winded way and with statistics to help support, both players are roughly equal IMO. Based solely on basketball impact I would take Amare over Lee, but when you factor in contracts and injury history I'd take in Lee over Amare every time. Plus Lee is a good locker room guy, who plays hard every play vs. Amare who can divided locker rooms and has a notorious "on/off" switch. While both were in contract years, I suspect Amare will come down further now that he has his fat $100 million dollar deal.

Regarding pairing Lee with a defensive presence like Noah, the Warriors do have Andris Biedrins/Lou Amoundson/Dan Gadzuric/Epke Udoh to slide next to him and while none are the defensive equals to Noah they are all defenders. Plus, David Lee is an instant upgrade over Anthony Tolliver and Corey Magette at PF and rumors are Nellie will likely be gone so the no defensive approach will be out the window.

I agree with the bolded replacing Harrington with Amare, Duhon with Felton, Lee with Turiaf, and the progression of Gallo and Will should make for a much improved team.

The Knicks will be able to score more points and defend the paint better as Turiaf >>>>>>> Harrington, but rebounding wise it will be a terrible team. Sure that front court Amare/Gallo/Turiaf will force more errant shots, but they'll also rebound a lot less. The only way to salvage that front court is if Randolph is willing to play minutes at C and I'm not sure he would be willing to do that because that's why he was pouting in GS with Nellie.

 

[simmonjm]

It will be tough to see how much of an impact swapping Lee for Amare has since NY brought in other pieces because they tried to finally build a team instead of a collection of expiring contracts, but I really don't think it's much of an upgrade and the stats seem to bear that out.

Amare vs Lee 09-10

Both score highly efficiently with above average FG%, eFG%, and TS% and with decent volume both were 20 ppg scorers last year.

On offense, Amare has the edge scoring wise in ppg and the field %, but Lee has a better FT%, although he goes to the line a lot less, and he's a waaay better passer then Amare, so he makes us the raw point differential by assisting buckets.

On defense, Lee is a better rebounder and stealer while Amare is a better man defender and shot blocker.

If you look at there O-Rtg and D-Rtg (points score and allowed per 100 possessions):

Lee

O-Rtg - 116

D-Rtg - 108

Amare

O-Rtg - 117

D - Rtg - 109

So over 100 possession they would could out to be equals.

In a long winded way and with statistics to help support, both players are roughly equal IMO. Based solely on basketball impact I would take Amare over Lee, but when you factor in contracts and injury history I'd take in Lee over Amare every time. Plus Lee is a good locker room guy, who plays hard every play vs. Amare who can divided locker rooms and has a notorious "on/off" switch. While both were in contract years, I suspect Amare will come down further now that he has his fat $100 million dollar deal.

Regarding pairing Lee with a defensive presence like Noah, the Warriors do have Andris Biedrins/Lou Amoundson/Dan Gadzuric/Epke Udoh to slide next to him and while none are the defensive equals to Noah they are all defenders. Plus, David Lee is an instant upgrade over Anthony Tolliver and Corey Magette at PF and rumors are Nellie will likely be gone so the no defensive approach will be out the window.

I agree with the bolded replacing Harrington with Amare, Duhon with Felton, Lee with Turiaf, and the progression of Gallo and Will should make for a much improved team.

The Knicks will be able to score more points and defend the paint better as Turiaf >>>>>>> Harrington, but rebounding wise it will be a terrible team. Sure that front court Amare/Gallo/Turiaf will force more errant shots, but they'll also rebound a lot less. The only way to salvage that front court is if Randolph is willing to play minutes at C and I'm not sure he would be willing to do that because that's why he was pouting in GS with Nellie.

Could always put Amare at C, Randolph at PF, and Gallo at 3, granted its not the best frontline but much more formidable than last years version of Lee, Harrington, Gallo

 

[No. 16]

It will be tough to see how much of an impact swapping Lee for Amare has since NY brought in other pieces because they tried to finally build a team instead of a collection of expiring contracts, but I really don't think it's much of an upgrade and the stats seem to bear that out.

Amare vs Lee 09-10

Both score highly efficiently with above average FG%, eFG%, and TS% and with decent volume both were 20 ppg scorers last year.

On offense, Amare has the edge scoring wise in ppg and the field %, but Lee has a better FT%, although he goes to the line a lot less, and he's a waaay better passer then Amare, so he makes us the raw point differential by assisting buckets.

On defense, Lee is a better rebounder and stealer while Amare is a better man defender and shot blocker.

If you look at there O-Rtg and D-Rtg (points score and allowed per 100 possessions):

Lee

O-Rtg - 116

D-Rtg - 108

Amare

O-Rtg - 117

D - Rtg - 109

So over 100 possession they would could out to be equals.

In a long winded way and with statistics to help support, both players are roughly equal IMO. Based solely on basketball impact I would take Amare over Lee, but when you factor in contracts and injury history I'd take in Lee over Amare every time. Plus Lee is a good locker room guy, who plays hard every play vs. Amare who can divided locker rooms and has a notorious "on/off" switch. While both were in contract years, I suspect Amare will come down further now that he has his fat $100 million dollar deal.

Regarding pairing Lee with a defensive presence like Noah, the Warriors do have Andris Biedrins/Lou Amoundson/Dan Gadzuric/Epke Udoh to slide next to him and while none are the defensive equals to Noah they are all defenders. Plus, David Lee is an instant upgrade over Anthony Tolliver and Corey Magette at PF and rumors are Nellie will likely be gone so the no defensive approach will be out the window.

I agree with the bolded replacing Harrington with Amare, Duhon with Felton, Lee with Turiaf, and the progression of Gallo and Will should make for a much improved team.

The Knicks will be able to score more points and defend the paint better as Turiaf >>>>>>> Harrington, but rebounding wise it will be a terrible team. Sure that front court Amare/Gallo/Turiaf will force more errant shots, but they'll also rebound a lot less. The only way to salvage that front court is if Randolph is willing to play minutes at C and I'm not sure he would be willing to do that because that's why he was pouting in GS with Nellie.

Could always put Amare at C, Randolph at PF, and Gallo at 3, granted its not the best frontline but much more formidable than last years version of Lee, Harrington, Gallo

Same thing different title regarding Amare/Randolph. Both are better suited to defend PFs on defense so it doesn't matter who plays C and Amare is still a below average rebounder for the PF and C spot.