*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (2 Viewers)

[JMon348]

What specific part of the piece are you guys disputing? LeBron being coddled in Cleveland was more or less a direct quote from Dan Gilbert. His beef with Spoelstra was reported by the same writer who broke the LeBron to the Heat story. I don't think Woj even has any new original LeBron material in this story. If you threw out the writing of every national writer that has a written a negative piece on LeBron since "The Decision" you would hardly have anybody to read anymore. Give it a few more weeks and even the "stat guys", his base will go negative when they have to explain why their PER dream team has failed to match their various groundbreaking regular season projection modules.

We're disputing the characterization of it by JMon.It's a terribly written piece, clearly intended to be a hack job. To give you an example that doesn't even have anything to do with LeBron- he unfairly characterizes Wade's quote about Spoelstra not being "his guy" as throwing Spoelstra under the bus. The quote does nothing of the sort, even without context (maybe Wade was joking that he and Spoelstra don't exactly hit the clubs together, or maybe he was saying that he didn't hand-pick him). To give you another- he refers to the Heat's supposed 73 win season capped with a sweep of the Lakers; I never saw a single prediction anywhere close to that. His agenda is obvious. And it's not going to change any minds about LeBron. Most people, myself included already think is a selfish tool who doesn't "get it."

Jeff Van Gundy?

 

[TobiasFunke]

What specific part of the piece are you guys disputing? LeBron being coddled in Cleveland was more or less a direct quote from Dan Gilbert. His beef with Spoelstra was reported by the same writer who broke the LeBron to the Heat story. I don't think Woj even has any new original LeBron material in this story. If you threw out the writing of every national writer that has a written a negative piece on LeBron since "The Decision" you would hardly have anybody to read anymore. Give it a few more weeks and even the "stat guys", his base will go negative when they have to explain why their PER dream team has failed to match their various groundbreaking regular season projection modules.

We're disputing the characterization of it by JMon.It's a terribly written piece, clearly intended to be a hack job. To give you an example that doesn't even have anything to do with LeBron- he unfairly characterizes Wade's quote about Spoelstra not being "his guy" as throwing Spoelstra under the bus. The quote does nothing of the sort, even without context (maybe Wade was joking that he and Spoelstra don't exactly hit the clubs together, or maybe he was saying that he didn't hand-pick him). To give you another- he refers to the Heat's supposed 73 win season capped with a sweep of the Lakers; I never saw a single prediction anywhere close to that. His agenda is obvious. And it's not going to change any minds about LeBron. Most people, myself included already think is a selfish tool who doesn't "get it."

Jeff Van Gundy?

If I'm recalling correctly, he predicted that they'd make a run at the 72 win record and that the only team that could challenge them would be the Lakers. And he was the only one, and he got ridiculed for it- it was hardly a consensus of any kind. Setting aside the commonly held theory that he was making an extreme prediction to attract attention to himself and/or put pressure on the Heat and lower expectations on the rest of the conference for the benefit of his brother ... where is the prediction of a sweep in the Finals? Other than in Woj's imagination, I mean?

 

[the moops]

Wasn't about Kobe. It was about Boston fans supporting another team's star player. If I knew of it happening with another player I would have posted it, but I didn't regularly watch home games of 24-58 2007 Boston Celtics so nothing else came to mind.

When I said Cleveland needs to get over it, I wasn't saying they should be cheering for Lebron in Miami, just that a meaningless regular season game shouldn't have the atmosphere of game 7 of the NBA finals, just because they feel scorned.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Wasn't about Kobe. It was about Boston fans supporting another team's star player. If I knew of it happening with another player I would have posted it, but I didn't regularly watch home games of 24-58 2007 Boston Celtics so nothing else came to mind.

When I said Cleveland needs to get over it, I wasn't saying they should be cheering for Lebron in Miami, just that a meaningless regular season game shouldn't have the atmosphere of game 7 of the NBA finals, just because they feel scorned.

And I was saying its more pathetic to let your rivals team fan base get a MVP chant going in your half empty arena. Unless they make the playoffs this will probably be the biggest game of the season so how is it pathetic to get up for it?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Wasn't about Kobe. It was about Boston fans supporting another team's star player. If I knew of it happening with another player I would have posted it, but I didn't regularly watch home games of 24-58 2007 Boston Celtics so nothing else came to mind.

When I said Cleveland needs to get over it, I wasn't saying they should be cheering for Lebron in Miami, just that a meaningless regular season game shouldn't have the atmosphere of game 7 of the NBA finals, just because they feel scorned.

Moops-Assuming you were serious, and because I want to move away from the nonsensical ramblings of the Cult of Kobe ...Do you really think that this is no different from other free agency departures? I'm not aware of that many instances in which a celebrated superstar athlete at the peak of his career has left the team he's played with for his entire career to play for less money elsewhere despite the fact that the team and the fans desperately wanted him to stay. Even setting aside the unnecessary public spectacle and the poor playoff efforts prior to his departure (the two things that I think fuel the Cleveland fire more than anything), this is the only instance I can think of where a player this young in any sport has rejected the highest offer from his current team (let alone the team located 45 minutes from his home town) simply because he doesn't like the town or the franchise and finds another arrangement more desirable from a lifestyle standpoint. Even if there are other examples that I can't think of right now, I think it's clear that it's highly unusual.

 

[the moops]

Moops-Assuming you were serious, and because I want to move away from the nonsensical ramblings of the Cult of Kobe ...Do you really think that this is no different from other free agency departures? I'm not aware of that many instances in which a celebrated superstar athlete at the peak of his career has left the team he's played with for his entire career to play for less money elsewhere despite the fact that the team and the fans desperately wanted him to stay. Even setting aside the unnecessary public spectacle and the poor playoff efforts prior to his departure (the two things that I think fuel the Cleveland fire more than anything), this is the only instance I can think of where a player this young in any sport has rejected the highest offer simply because he doesn't like the town or the franchise and finds another arrangement more desirable from a lifestyle standpoint. Even if there are other examples that I can't think of right now, I think it's clear that it's highly unusual.

I'm not sure there have been similar free agent signings. So yes, it is quite different from most other departures.But I love the fact that players decided they would rather live in Miami and play together for slightly less money than stay somewhere where they were unhappy. Lebron is a doosh. But I don't care. He, and the hoopla surrounding him is entertaining as ####.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Moops-Assuming you were serious, and because I want to move away from the nonsensical ramblings of the Cult of Kobe ...Do you really think that this is no different from other free agency departures? I'm not aware of that many instances in which a celebrated superstar athlete at the peak of his career has left the team he's played with for his entire career to play for less money elsewhere despite the fact that the team and the fans desperately wanted him to stay. Even setting aside the unnecessary public spectacle and the poor playoff efforts prior to his departure (the two things that I think fuel the Cleveland fire more than anything), this is the only instance I can think of where a player this young in any sport has rejected the highest offer simply because he doesn't like the town or the franchise and finds another arrangement more desirable from a lifestyle standpoint. Even if there are other examples that I can't think of right now, I think it's clear that it's highly unusual.

I'm not sure there have been similar free agent signings. So yes, it is quite different from most other departures.But I love the fact that players decided they would rather live in Miami and play together for slightly less money than stay somewhere where they were unhappy. Lebron is a doosh. But I don't care. He, and the hoopla surrounding him is entertaining as ####.

Well, we're in agreement then. He's a huge doosh, and this whole spectacle is wildly entertaining. I just think the Cleveland hate is totally reasonable, and that the people saying that Cleveland fans are overreacting (and there are plenty of them) are missing the several things that make his departure different from a normal free agent departure.

 

[westparkhouserat]

not mentioned is the fact he left a team with the best record in the league two years running....that cant be common

 

[Kiddnets]

Rumor in Netsville - Nuggets will ship Carmello to the Nets (likely a Favors/Murphy type deal) but are are waiting to the dedline so the Nets 1st rd pick is improved - they are afraid Melo may win them a few more games if they pulled it now.....I dont think it makes any difference and after watching Favors so far this year I hope they pass and keep him.

 

[No. 16]

Hoopism.com

Check this website out. It's a cool NBA blog that presents NBA data using in clever visual ways.

Everyone of their posts are cool, but I like the NBA team word cloud (ranked by total minutes played) and NBA Caricatures.

 

[Kev4029]

Rumor in Netsville - Nuggets will ship Carmello to the Nets (likely a Favors/Murphy type deal) but are are waiting to the dedline so the Nets 1st rd pick is improved - they are afraid Melo may win them a few more games if they pulled it now.....I dont think it makes any difference and after watching Favors so far this year I hope they pass and keep him.

I've heard that here in Denver as well. It seems like Russian MC really wants Melo and I don't think the last month of Favors has changed the fact that NJ would happily trade him. With the lack of Terrence Williams development and Outlaw and Morrow proving to be good 6th/7th men but nothing more on top of Humphries showing he really play, they need somebody on the perimeter that can create some offense. For Lopez and Harris it seems like Melo is a better fit than Favors for their talents, plus with the inside outside ability of Melo things would likely free up for Outlaw and Morrow to hit jumpers. Even if Favors develops into what people think he could (a slightly smaller version of Howard with some semblance of a jumper), I think Melo would still fit better because of the existing talent on the roster. On top of that, I would worry as a Nets fan that Favors development will be stunted by having Lopez in the post and he may turn out closer to Kenyon Martin than Dwight Howard.

 

[Kiddnets]

Rumor in Netsville - Nuggets will ship Carmello to the Nets (likely a Favors/Murphy type deal) but are are waiting to the dedline so the Nets 1st rd pick is improved - they are afraid Melo may win them a few more games if they pulled it now.....I dont think it makes any difference and after watching Favors so far this year I hope they pass and keep him.

I've heard that here in Denver as well. It seems like Russian MC really wants Melo and I don't think the last month of Favors has changed the fact that NJ would happily trade him. With the lack of Terrence Williams development and Outlaw and Morrow proving to be good 6th/7th men but nothing more on top of Humphries showing he really play, they need somebody on the perimeter that can create some offense. For Lopez and Harris it seems like Melo is a better fit than Favors for their talents, plus with the inside outside ability of Melo things would likely free up for Outlaw and Morrow to hit jumpers. Even if Favors develops into what people think he could (a slightly smaller version of Howard with some semblance of a jumper), I think Melo would still fit better because of the existing talent on the roster. On top of that, I would worry as a Nets fan that Favors development will be stunted by having Lopez in the post and he may turn out closer to Kenyon Martin than Dwight Howard.

Good stuff - where theres smoke theres fire....I expect to hear this hit a fever pitch when Denver visits the Nets at the end of January right near the deadline. Unfortunatley I think you are right that despite the fact that Favors has looked lke the real deal the Nets will still be willing to deal him (although only if Melo signs the extension) - Proky has said that this is a star based league and he wants his star. My point is that even with Melo I dont see them as a more than a middle of the pack playoff team...so why not keep the 19 yr old with monster upside? I'd take a Kenyon in his day who was really good in the right system and before he injuries - but I think Favors will be closer to Howard if he continues to progress. I think Proky sees it as Melo will recruit another star as they still have enough cap for one more close to max player. BTW - all the laughs about the Nets signings - I really like Morrow and Farmar...real solid role players especially at their pricetag....Outlaw has been underwhelming but has his moments...just gave him too much $.

 

[Moe.]

Hoopism.com

Check this website out. It's a cool NBA blog that presents NBA data using in clever visual ways.

Everyone of their posts are cool, but I like the NBA team word could (ranked by total minutes played) and NBA Caricatures.

The stats translated as bodies are awesome (I know I'm not explaining that very well but check it out). Really cool way to compare players.

 

[No. 16]

Rumor in Netsville - Nuggets will ship Carmello to the Nets (likely a Favors/Murphy type deal) but are are waiting to the dedline so the Nets 1st rd pick is improved - they are afraid Melo may win them a few more games if they pulled it now.....I dont think it makes any difference and after watching Favors so far this year I hope they pass and keep him.

I've heard that here in Denver as well. It seems like Russian MC really wants Melo and I don't think the last month of Favors has changed the fact that NJ would happily trade him. With the lack of Terrence Williams development and Outlaw and Morrow proving to be good 6th/7th men but nothing more on top of Humphries showing he really play, they need somebody on the perimeter that can create some offense. For Lopez and Harris it seems like Melo is a better fit than Favors for their talents, plus with the inside outside ability of Melo things would likely free up for Outlaw and Morrow to hit jumpers. Even if Favors develops into what people think he could (a slightly smaller version of Howard with some semblance of a jumper), I think Melo would still fit better because of the existing talent on the roster. On top of that, I would worry as a Nets fan that Favors development will be stunted by having Lopez in the post and he may turn out closer to Kenyon Martin than Dwight Howard.

Good stuff - where theres smoke theres fire....I expect to hear this hit a fever pitch when Denver visits the Nets at the end of January right near the deadline. Unfortunatley I think you are right that despite the fact that Favors has looked lke the real deal the Nets will still be willing to deal him (although only if Melo signs the extension) - Proky has said that this is a star based league and he wants his star. My point is that even with Melo I dont see them as a more than a middle of the pack playoff team...so why not keep the 19 yr old with monster upside? I'd take a Kenyon in his day who was really good in the right system and before he injuries - but I think Favors will be closer to Howard if he continues to progress. I think Proky sees it as Melo will recruit another star as they still have enough cap for one more close to max player.

BTW - all the laughs about the Nets signings - I really like Morrow and Farmar...real solid role players especially at their pricetag....Outlaw has been underwhelming but has his moments...just gave him too much $.

Exactly. As much as I like Brook Lopez, I don't think he'll make a big enough leap, into becoming a stud C. He'll be a very good C and All*Star, but not one that can carry a team.

If your team's 3 best players are soft/offensive oriented players like Carmelo, Lopez, and Harris you're not going to be a championship team unless you draft or sign a Top Tier player that plays on both ends of the floor. However, if they trade for Melo all those trade assets will disappear.

Keep Favors, keep your draft picks, and keep sucking. Take another shot at finding a true superstar in the lottery.

 

[Gr00vus]

How about those Spurs.

 

[the moops]

Hoopism.com

Check this website out. It's a cool NBA blog that presents NBA data using in clever visual ways.

Everyone of their posts are cool, but I like the NBA team word could (ranked by total minutes played) and NBA Caricatures.

Awesome stuff. Wish I had come up with stuff like that.

 

[Kev4029]

Rumor in Netsville - Nuggets will ship Carmello to the Nets (likely a Favors/Murphy type deal) but are are waiting to the dedline so the Nets 1st rd pick is improved - they are afraid Melo may win them a few more games if they pulled it now.....I dont think it makes any difference and after watching Favors so far this year I hope they pass and keep him.

I've heard that here in Denver as well. It seems like Russian MC really wants Melo and I don't think the last month of Favors has changed the fact that NJ would happily trade him. With the lack of Terrence Williams development and Outlaw and Morrow proving to be good 6th/7th men but nothing more on top of Humphries showing he really play, they need somebody on the perimeter that can create some offense. For Lopez and Harris it seems like Melo is a better fit than Favors for their talents, plus with the inside outside ability of Melo things would likely free up for Outlaw and Morrow to hit jumpers. Even if Favors develops into what people think he could (a slightly smaller version of Howard with some semblance of a jumper), I think Melo would still fit better because of the existing talent on the roster. On top of that, I would worry as a Nets fan that Favors development will be stunted by having Lopez in the post and he may turn out closer to Kenyon Martin than Dwight Howard.

Good stuff - where theres smoke theres fire....I expect to hear this hit a fever pitch when Denver visits the Nets at the end of January right near the deadline. Unfortunatley I think you are right that despite the fact that Favors has looked lke the real deal the Nets will still be willing to deal him (although only if Melo signs the extension) - Proky has said that this is a star based league and he wants his star. My point is that even with Melo I dont see them as a more than a middle of the pack playoff team...so why not keep the 19 yr old with monster upside? I'd take a Kenyon in his day who was really good in the right system and before he injuries - but I think Favors will be closer to Howard if he continues to progress. I think Proky sees it as Melo will recruit another star as they still have enough cap for one more close to max player.

BTW - all the laughs about the Nets signings - I really like Morrow and Farmar...real solid role players especially at their pricetag....Outlaw has been underwhelming but has his moments...just gave him too much $.

Exactly. As much as I like Brook Lopez, I don't think he'll make a big enough leap, into becoming a stud C. He'll be a very good C and All*Star, but not one that can carry a team.

If your team's 3 best players are soft/offensive oriented players like Carmelo, Lopez, and Harris you're not going to be a championship team unless you draft or sign a Top Tier player that plays on both ends of the floor. However, if they trade for Melo all those trade assets will disappear.

Keep Favors, keep your draft picks, and keep sucking. Take another shot at finding a true superstar in the lottery.

Harris was a defensive stud in Dallas before he got to NJ surrounded by players that don't play hard (speaking of his first two years in NJ, not this year) and an entire culture of indifference. Hes big and quick and as the Nets begin to win and as Johnson's coaching philosophies begin to set in, I believe he'll again be an All-Defense sort of talent.

 

[JMon348]

Rumor in Netsville - Nuggets will ship Carmello to the Nets (likely a Favors/Murphy type deal) but are are waiting to the dedline so the Nets 1st rd pick is improved - they are afraid Melo may win them a few more games if they pulled it now.....I dont think it makes any difference and after watching Favors so far this year I hope they pass and keep him.

What do you see as Favors' upside numbers wise? Do you think he gets more time this year, if so when?

 

[Kev4029]

Rumor in Netsville - Nuggets will ship Carmello to the Nets (likely a Favors/Murphy type deal) but are are waiting to the dedline so the Nets 1st rd pick is improved - they are afraid Melo may win them a few more games if they pulled it now.....I dont think it makes any difference and after watching Favors so far this year I hope they pass and keep him.

What do you see as Favors' upside numbers wise? Do you think he gets more time this year, if so when?

Dwight Howard.Statistically Howard and Favors are surprisingly similar as rookies if you look at the advanced or per 36 numbers. The biggest differences between the two, statistically, is that Howard blocked shots 50% more frequently and Favors is fouling at an alarmingly high rate. The big advantage that Favors has over Howard is that he can kind of shoot that ball, although his FT % doesn't show it.

In 5 years I could see Favors going for 20 ppg, 11 rpg and 2 bpg if he fulfills his potential.

 

[saintfool]

Statistically Howard and Favors are surprisingly similar as rookies if you look at the advanced or per 36 numbers. The biggest differences between the two, statistically, is that Howard blocked shots 50% more frequently and Favors is fouling at an alarmingly high rate. The big advantage that Favors has over Howard is that he can kind of shoot that ball, although his FT % doesn't show it. In 5 years I could see Favors going for 20 ppg, 11 rpg and 2 bpg if he fulfills his potential.

they are also playing different positions and on very different teams. comparing howard and favors seems *really* premature at this point in favors' career.ETA - i would think a possibly more apt comparison would be a player like, say, lamarcus aldridge. although lamarcus was 21 when he entered the league as a rook.

 

[No. 16]

Statistically Howard and Favors are surprisingly similar as rookies if you look at the advanced or per 36 numbers. The biggest differences between the two, statistically, is that Howard blocked shots 50% more frequently and Favors is fouling at an alarmingly high rate. The big advantage that Favors has over Howard is that he can kind of shoot that ball, although his FT % doesn't show it. In 5 years I could see Favors going for 20 ppg, 11 rpg and 2 bpg if he fulfills his potential.

they are also playing different positions and on very different teams. comparing howard and favors seems *really* premature at this point in favors' career.ETA - i would think a possibly more apt comparison would be a player like, say, lamarcus aldridge. although lamarcus was 21 when he entered the league as a rook.

I'd say Shawn Kemp or a better rebounding Amare.

 

[Kev4029]

If the Nets do trade Favors, there are a few options next year that they could grab if they can convince somebody to take either Elson or Outlaw off of their hands.

Dalembert - He does two things well that Nets will most definitely need, rebound and protect the rim. I'm not sure if he has played any PF in the NBA but I view him as a poor man's Marcus Camby. I think if Camby can play along side Kaman (last year) and Nene (years past), Dalembert can make it work along side Lopez because he can hit jumpers just well enough where he'll have to be covered and he can dive to the rim for dunks if left uncovered.

David West - I have a hard time believing that he won't decline his player option next year for 7.5 million, so he'll likely hit the free agent market. West is an average rebounder and defender but can hit a mid range jump shot as well as any player in the NBA. He would free up Lopez in the post and he and Harris could run a nice pick and pop game. Unless the Nets can dump Outlaw he'll be out of their price range I would imagine.

Andrei Kirilenko - Always been at his best as an undersized PF, does a little bit of every thing.

Thaddeus Young - As long as the 6ers have Iggy and Brand, he'll be under utilized. Like Kirilenko, he is better as an undersized, active PF, and with the Nets he would get that.

Luc Richard Mbah a Moute - He defends everything, rebounds at an acceptable level for a PF (or great for a SF) but offers little on the offensive end. Would probably come fairly cheap.

Zach Randolph - Scores and rebounds at an All NBA level. I think we all know what the risk is... He'll probably also be too expensive.

Craig Smith - Deserves more love than he gets. Hes probably not worthly of a starting nod, but he rebounds and scores like a starter, and would make a good 3rd big if both starting bigs can play center. He will also probably come fairly cheap.

Brandan Wright - Full of potential... and potential injuries. Could be a steal for cheap next year.

Kenyon Martin - We'll see if his knee is better. Could be a good PF stop gap for a couple years.

 

[Kev4029]

Statistically Howard and Favors are surprisingly similar as rookies if you look at the advanced or per 36 numbers. The biggest differences between the two, statistically, is that Howard blocked shots 50% more frequently and Favors is fouling at an alarmingly high rate. The big advantage that Favors has over Howard is that he can kind of shoot that ball, although his FT % doesn't show it. In 5 years I could see Favors going for 20 ppg, 11 rpg and 2 bpg if he fulfills his potential.

they are also playing different positions and on very different teams. comparing howard and favors seems *really* premature at this point in favors' career.ETA - i would think a possibly more apt comparison would be a player like, say, lamarcus aldridge. although lamarcus was 21 when he entered the league as a rook.

Aldridge has a FAR different game than Favors. I would actually say that is the about the worst player comparison you could have possibly thought of.Favors rebounds very well and defends, has a mediocre jumpshot. He also runs the floor and has top flight NBA athleticism. Aldridge is an average rebounder, below average defender, mediocre athlete, although he is mobile he doesn't run the floor all that well and scores a large portion of his points with a jump shot.If you combined Aldridge's jumper and ability not to foul with Favors rebounding, defensive potential and athleticism it is possible that would be the greatest PF ever.

 

[Kev4029]

Statistically Howard and Favors are surprisingly similar as rookies if you look at the advanced or per 36 numbers. The biggest differences between the two, statistically, is that Howard blocked shots 50% more frequently and Favors is fouling at an alarmingly high rate. The big advantage that Favors has over Howard is that he can kind of shoot that ball, although his FT % doesn't show it. In 5 years I could see Favors going for 20 ppg, 11 rpg and 2 bpg if he fulfills his potential.

they are also playing different positions and on very different teams. comparing howard and favors seems *really* premature at this point in favors' career.ETA - i would think a possibly more apt comparison would be a player like, say, lamarcus aldridge. although lamarcus was 21 when he entered the league as a rook.

I'd say Shawn Kemp or a better rebounding Amare.

I'd say Kemp is a far comparison.

 

[No. 16]

If the Nets do trade Favors, there are a few options next year that they could grab if they can convince somebody to take either Elson or Outlaw off of their hands. Dalembert - He does two things well that Nets will most definitely need, rebound and protect the rim. I'm not sure if he has played any PF in the NBA but I view him as a poor man's Marcus Camby. I think if Camby can play along side Kaman (last year) and Nene (years past), Dalembert can make it work along side Lopez because he can hit jumpers just well enough where he'll have to be covered and he can dive to the rim for dunks if left uncovered. David West - I have a hard time believing that he won't decline his player option next year for 7.5 million, so he'll likely hit the free agent market. West is an average rebounder and defender but can hit a mid range jump shot as well as any player in the NBA. He would free up Lopez in the post and he and Harris could run a nice pick and pop game. Unless the Nets can dump Outlaw he'll be out of their price range I would imagine.Andrei Kirilenko - Always been at his best as an undersized PF, does a little bit of every thing.Thaddeus Young - As long as the 6ers have Iggy and Brand, he'll be under utilized. Like Kirilenko, he is better as an undersized, active PF, and with the Nets he would get that.Luc Richard Mbah a Moute - He defends everything, rebounds at an acceptable level for a PF (or great for a SF) but offers little on the offensive end. Would probably come fairly cheap.Zach Randolph - Scores and rebounds at an All NBA level. I think we all know what the risk is... He'll probably also be too expensive.Craig Smith - Deserves more love than he gets. Hes probably not worthly of a starting nod, but he rebounds and scores like a starter, and would make a good 3rd big if both starting bigs can play center. He will also probably come fairly cheap.Brandan Wright - Full of potential... and potential injuries. Could be a steal for cheap next year.Kenyon Martin - We'll see if his knee is better. Could be a good PF stop gap for a couple years.

Yah, because....MeloHarrisLopezCraig Smith/Z-Bo/Kenyon Martin/Brandan Wright/LBR/Dalembert/AK47/T-Young/David Westsounds like a Championship team to me!How could the Nets not go balls to the walls for Melo, with those options out there!?!

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

If the Nets do trade Favors, there are a few options next year that they could grab if they can convince somebody to take either Elson or Outlaw off of their hands. Dalembert - He does two things well that Nets will most definitely need, rebound and protect the rim. I'm not sure if he has played any PF in the NBA but I view him as a poor man's Marcus Camby. I think if Camby can play along side Kaman (last year) and Nene (years past), Dalembert can make it work along side Lopez because he can hit jumpers just well enough where he'll have to be covered and he can dive to the rim for dunks if left uncovered. David West - I have a hard time believing that he won't decline his player option next year for 7.5 million, so he'll likely hit the free agent market. West is an average rebounder and defender but can hit a mid range jump shot as well as any player in the NBA. He would free up Lopez in the post and he and Harris could run a nice pick and pop game. Unless the Nets can dump Outlaw he'll be out of their price range I would imagine.Andrei Kirilenko - Always been at his best as an undersized PF, does a little bit of every thing.Thaddeus Young - As long as the 6ers have Iggy and Brand, he'll be under utilized. Like Kirilenko, he is better as an undersized, active PF, and with the Nets he would get that.Luc Richard Mbah a Moute - He defends everything, rebounds at an acceptable level for a PF (or great for a SF) but offers little on the offensive end. Would probably come fairly cheap.Zach Randolph - Scores and rebounds at an All NBA level. I think we all know what the risk is... He'll probably also be too expensive.Craig Smith - Deserves more love than he gets. Hes probably not worthly of a starting nod, but he rebounds and scores like a starter, and would make a good 3rd big if both starting bigs can play center. He will also probably come fairly cheap.Brandan Wright - Full of potential... and potential injuries. Could be a steal for cheap next year.Kenyon Martin - We'll see if his knee is better. Could be a good PF stop gap for a couple years.

Yah, because....MeloHarrisLopezCraig Smith/Z-Bo/Kenyon Martin/Brandan Wright/LBR/Dalembert/AK47/T-Young/David Westsounds like a Championship team to me!How could the Nets not go balls to the walls for Melo, with those options out there!?!

The Nets have one 50+ win season since joining the NBA. What makes you think its championship or bust for them? Most owners would relish being a middle of the road profitable playoff team.

 

[No. 16]

If the Nets do trade Favors, there are a few options next year that they could grab if they can convince somebody to take either Elson or Outlaw off of their hands. Dalembert - He does two things well that Nets will most definitely need, rebound and protect the rim. I'm not sure if he has played any PF in the NBA but I view him as a poor man's Marcus Camby. I think if Camby can play along side Kaman (last year) and Nene (years past), Dalembert can make it work along side Lopez because he can hit jumpers just well enough where he'll have to be covered and he can dive to the rim for dunks if left uncovered. David West - I have a hard time believing that he won't decline his player option next year for 7.5 million, so he'll likely hit the free agent market. West is an average rebounder and defender but can hit a mid range jump shot as well as any player in the NBA. He would free up Lopez in the post and he and Harris could run a nice pick and pop game. Unless the Nets can dump Outlaw he'll be out of their price range I would imagine.Andrei Kirilenko - Always been at his best as an undersized PF, does a little bit of every thing.Thaddeus Young - As long as the 6ers have Iggy and Brand, he'll be under utilized. Like Kirilenko, he is better as an undersized, active PF, and with the Nets he would get that.Luc Richard Mbah a Moute - He defends everything, rebounds at an acceptable level for a PF (or great for a SF) but offers little on the offensive end. Would probably come fairly cheap.Zach Randolph - Scores and rebounds at an All NBA level. I think we all know what the risk is... He'll probably also be too expensive.Craig Smith - Deserves more love than he gets. Hes probably not worthly of a starting nod, but he rebounds and scores like a starter, and would make a good 3rd big if both starting bigs can play center. He will also probably come fairly cheap.Brandan Wright - Full of potential... and potential injuries. Could be a steal for cheap next year.Kenyon Martin - We'll see if his knee is better. Could be a good PF stop gap for a couple years.

Yah, because....MeloHarrisLopezCraig Smith/Z-Bo/Kenyon Martin/Brandan Wright/LBR/Dalembert/AK47/T-Young/David Westsounds like a Championship team to me!How could the Nets not go balls to the walls for Melo, with those options out there!?!

The Nets have one 50+ win season since joining the NBA. What makes you think its championship or bust for them? Most owners would relish being a middle of the road profitable playoff team.

Sure, if the plan is to become middle of the road then adding Melo will do that and it would make business sense for 90% of the owners.However, I think the Russian MC is not relying on the Nets to make him money immediately and is planning on holding onto the Nets for a long time and developing it into a "world-wide" brand according to the they pitch made during the LBJ sweepstakes. If becoming a world-wide brand is what you want to do, the best way to do that is by WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS. The Lakers are the most popular team world wide, not because Kobe is their best player (it helps), but because they have a long history of winning championships. Adding Melo and Craig Smith is no where near a championship caliber team. So why commit long term cap space and draft picks to acquire him?

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

The Nets have one 50+ win season since joining the NBA. What makes you think its championship or bust for them? Most owners would relish being a middle of the road profitable playoff team.

Sure, if the plan is to become middle of the road then adding Melo will do that and it would make business sense for 90% of the owners.However, I think the Russian MC is not relying on the Nets to make him money immediately and is planning on holding onto the Nets for a long time and developing it into a "world-wide" brand according to the they pitch made during the LBJ sweepstakes. If becoming a world-wide brand is what you want to do, the best way to do that is by WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS. The Lakers are the most popular team world wide, not because Kobe is their best player (it helps), but because they have a long history of winning championships. Adding Melo and Craig Smith is no where near a championship caliber team. So why commit long term cap space and draft picks to acquire him?

Adding Melo doesn't have to be Russian Marc Cuban's only move. The team will always have the opportunity to get better with an owner willing to spend. Unless Derrick Favors is the next Tim Duncan, Shaq, Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan I don't see anything in recent NBA history to suggest that its vital to hold on to him to ensure multiple titles down the road. Ask Portland fans how they feel about holding onto tradeable assets and cap flexibility nowadays.

 

[Gr00vus]

Ask Portland fans how they feel about holding onto tradeable assets and cap flexibility nowadays.

About as bad as Brandon Roy's/Greg Oden's knees.

 

[No. 16]

The Nets have one 50+ win season since joining the NBA. What makes you think its championship or bust for them? Most owners would relish being a middle of the road profitable playoff team.

Sure, if the plan is to become middle of the road then adding Melo will do that and it would make business sense for 90% of the owners.However, I think the Russian MC is not relying on the Nets to make him money immediately and is planning on holding onto the Nets for a long time and developing it into a "world-wide" brand according to the they pitch made during the LBJ sweepstakes. If becoming a world-wide brand is what you want to do, the best way to do that is by WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS. The Lakers are the most popular team world wide, not because Kobe is their best player (it helps), but because they have a long history of winning championships. Adding Melo and Craig Smith is no where near a championship caliber team. So why commit long term cap space and draft picks to acquire him?

Adding Melo doesn't have to be Russian Marc Cuban's only move. The team will always have the opportunity to get better with an owner willing to spend. Unless Derrick Favors is the next Tim Duncan, Shaq, Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan I don't see anything in recent NBA history to suggest that its vital to hold on to him to ensure multiple titles down the road. Ask Portland fans how they feel about holding onto tradeable assets and cap flexibility nowadays.

After giving Melo a max deal and a Brook Lopez extension just around the corner, that would pretty much be the team for the near future. It seems like you agree that adding Melo won't make the Nets a championship team, so why give up all those resources if that's the case?

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

The Nets have one 50+ win season since joining the NBA. What makes you think its championship or bust for them? Most owners would relish being a middle of the road profitable playoff team.

Sure, if the plan is to become middle of the road then adding Melo will do that and it would make business sense for 90% of the owners.However, I think the Russian MC is not relying on the Nets to make him money immediately and is planning on holding onto the Nets for a long time and developing it into a "world-wide" brand according to the they pitch made during the LBJ sweepstakes. If becoming a world-wide brand is what you want to do, the best way to do that is by WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS. The Lakers are the most popular team world wide, not because Kobe is their best player (it helps), but because they have a long history of winning championships. Adding Melo and Craig Smith is no where near a championship caliber team. So why commit long term cap space and draft picks to acquire him?

Adding Melo doesn't have to be Russian Marc Cuban's only move. The team will always have the opportunity to get better with an owner willing to spend. Unless Derrick Favors is the next Tim Duncan, Shaq, Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan I don't see anything in recent NBA history to suggest that its vital to hold on to him to ensure multiple titles down the road. Ask Portland fans how they feel about holding onto tradeable assets and cap flexibility nowadays.

After giving Melo a max deal and a Brook Lopez extension just around the corner, that would pretty much be the team for the near future. It seems like you agree that adding Melo won't make the Nets a championship team, so why give up all those resources if that's the case?

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

 

[Kiddnets]

The Nets have one 50+ win season since joining the NBA. What makes you think its championship or bust for them? Most owners would relish being a middle of the road profitable playoff team.

Sure, if the plan is to become middle of the road then adding Melo will do that and it would make business sense for 90% of the owners.However, I think the Russian MC is not relying on the Nets to make him money immediately and is planning on holding onto the Nets for a long time and developing it into a "world-wide" brand according to the they pitch made during the LBJ sweepstakes. If becoming a world-wide brand is what you want to do, the best way to do that is by WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS. The Lakers are the most popular team world wide, not because Kobe is their best player (it helps), but because they have a long history of winning championships. Adding Melo and Craig Smith is no where near a championship caliber team. So why commit long term cap space and draft picks to acquire him?

Adding Melo doesn't have to be Russian Marc Cuban's only move. The team will always have the opportunity to get better with an owner willing to spend. Unless Derrick Favors is the next Tim Duncan, Shaq, Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan I don't see anything in recent NBA history to suggest that its vital to hold on to him to ensure multiple titles down the road. Ask Portland fans how they feel about holding onto tradeable assets and cap flexibility nowadays.

After giving Melo a max deal and a Brook Lopez extension just around the corner, that would pretty much be the team for the near future. It seems like you agree that adding Melo won't make the Nets a championship team, so why give up all those resources if that's the case?

Nets have cap space to add one more near max player before Lopez gets his extension - so Prokys plan is to have Melo land Chris Paul and make a run with Paul/Melo/Brook....I am wary of Paul joining and even more wary of his knee so I am not a huge fan of that plan. Why would they do it? Cause Proky wants to win now and wants a star to attract attention in Brooklyn...he is already in a mini feud with the Knicks and nothing would cheese them off more than landing Melo.I think Favors will keep getting the same minutes until the deadline - if hes still here then I think they bump him up...right now he's being brought along at a nice pace. I think he can be a 20/10 guy in a few years in the right system. With that rookie deal I would keep him and try to land another max guy through other means or try to hit it in the lotto again....a team of Devin/Favors/Brook with one max star could be a team that makes a serious run IMO......but I dont think Proky has the patience.

 

[Gr00vus]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

Might not be a good idea but it isn't a franchise killer. I don't know whom you consider the legitimate franchise centerpieces in the NBA but I would imagine the Nets already whiffed on several off them in the offseason. Paying Melo max money wouldn't be any less destructive than the Lakers paying for Lamar Odom the past few years and Andrew Bynum in the future.

 

[Moe.]

If Melo isn't on the list of guys that can be the best player on a championship team then that list must be only three or four deep. There are only so many of these guys to go around, obviously every team can't get one, so what are they supposed to do? Admit defeat and quit trying?

 

[No. 16]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

Might not be a good idea but it isn't a franchise killer. I don't know whom you consider the legitimate franchise centerpieces in the NBA but I would imagine the Nets already whiffed on several off them in the offseason. Paying Melo max money wouldn't be any less destructive than the Lakers paying for Lamar Odom the past few years and Andrew Bynum in the future.

Funny you mention the Lakers, because they are a prime example of being patient and making the right moves.- Odom was acquired with Caron Butler and signed for 6yrs/70 million.- Bynum was drafted with 1st round draft pick and signed for 4yrs/57 million. Both players are getting less than what Melo would be getting (3 years MAX ~ 20 million) so salary wise their deals aren't too bad. Also, you add in the fact that they are big men who rebound/defend vs. a scoring SF. So the money is invested in decent commodities. In the Odom deal the Lakers gave-up the OLDER "SUPERSTAR" for young talent (Odom/Butler vs Favors/1st rounders) and MAYBE it works out for Nets like it did for the Heat, but I don't see Lopez or Melo being a Top 3 NBA player like Wade. And guess what? The Nets will miss out on their chance to acquire an Andrew Bynum type by trading away their 1st rounders for Melo.So as you can see the Nets are GIVING UP A LOT to acquire a player to only become a middle of the road playoff team. I was unaware they had the cap space to make a run at a max level player before extending Lopez (what year is this kiddnets?), so their plan MAY work if they can acquire Chris Paul. If that's what they're going for then kudos to them for the plan.

 

[Kev4029]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

I've used this once before in here, but Melo was picked number 5 in our build a franchise draft. That means, according to the FFA, he is the 5th best franchise player in the NBA. If we did that again today at worst he may have slipped behind Rose with smaller possibility of somebody taking either Westbrook or Wall. Melo is 2nd in scoring for SFs, 1st in rebounding, 2nd in assists, 6th in steals, 3rd in FTA (shooting .867) and 2nd in PER (trailing Lebron by 0.08).... If he's not a franchise player then you don't have a single franchise player in the NBA. You're being ridiculous.

 

[Kev4029]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

Might not be a good idea but it isn't a franchise killer. I don't know whom you consider the legitimate franchise centerpieces in the NBA but I would imagine the Nets already whiffed on several off them in the offseason. Paying Melo max money wouldn't be any less destructive than the Lakers paying for Lamar Odom the past few years and Andrew Bynum in the future.

Funny you mention the Lakers, because they are a prime example of being patient and making the right moves.- Odom was acquired with Caron Butler and signed for 6yrs/70 million.- Bynum was drafted with 1st round draft pick and signed for 4yrs/57 million. Both players are getting less than what Melo would be getting (3 years MAX ~ 20 million) so salary wise their deals aren't too bad. Also, you add in the fact that they are big men who rebound/defend vs. a scoring SF. So the money is invested in decent commodities. In the Odom deal the Lakers gave-up the OLDER "SUPERSTAR" for young talent (Odom/Butler vs Favors/1st rounders) and MAYBE it works out for Nets like it did for the Heat, but I don't see Lopez or Melo being a Top 3 NBA player like Wade. And guess what? The Nets will miss out on their chance to acquire an Andrew Bynum type by trading away their 1st rounders for Melo.So as you can see the Nets are GIVING UP A LOT to acquire a player to only become a middle of the road playoff team. I was unaware they had the cap space to make a run at a max level player before extending Lopez (what year is this kiddnets?), so their plan MAY work if they can acquire Chris Paul. If that's what they're going for then kudos to them for the plan.

Finding a SF/SG to duplicate near what Melo does is MUCH harder to find than a big man who is hurt half the time that rebounds well and scores well. If the Nets want an injured big man that plays well when he isn't hurt they can grab Oden this offseason for half the price. Plus, Oden is a much better player when healthy than Bynum.The Nets are on the books for something like 38 million next year, so they have three choices with that money.1. Trade young assets for a proven stud like Melo2. Throw money at young restricted FAs this offseason and good but not great players (like David West and Zach Randolph)3. Sit on it and have the Lopez contract eat it up after next season.The choice seems pretty obvious to me.

 

[Moe.]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

Might not be a good idea but it isn't a franchise killer. I don't know whom you consider the legitimate franchise centerpieces in the NBA but I would imagine the Nets already whiffed on several off them in the offseason. Paying Melo max money wouldn't be any less destructive than the Lakers paying for Lamar Odom the past few years and Andrew Bynum in the future.

Funny you mention the Lakers, because they are a prime example of being patient and making the right moves.- Odom was acquired with Caron Butler and signed for 6yrs/70 million.- Bynum was drafted with 1st round draft pick and signed for 4yrs/57 million. Both players are getting less than what Melo would be getting (3 years MAX ~ 20 million) so salary wise their deals aren't too bad. Also, you add in the fact that they are big men who rebound/defend vs. a scoring SF. So the money is invested in decent commodities. In the Odom deal the Lakers gave-up the OLDER "SUPERSTAR" for young talent (Odom/Butler vs Favors/1st rounders) and MAYBE it works out for Nets like it did for the Heat, but I don't see Lopez or Melo being a Top 3 NBA player like Wade. And guess what? The Nets will miss out on their chance to acquire an Andrew Bynum type by trading away their 1st rounders for Melo.So as you can see the Nets are GIVING UP A LOT to acquire a player to only become a middle of the road playoff team. I was unaware they had the cap space to make a run at a max level player before extending Lopez (what year is this kiddnets?), so their plan MAY work if they can acquire Chris Paul. If that's what they're going for then kudos to them for the plan.

The Lakers had one of the best players in the league handed to them. Without Gasol they wouldn't have won squat the past three years.

 

[Gr00vus]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

Might not be a good idea but it isn't a franchise killer. I don't know whom you consider the legitimate franchise centerpieces in the NBA but I would imagine the Nets already whiffed on several off them in the offseason. Paying Melo max money wouldn't be any less destructive than the Lakers paying for Lamar Odom the past few years and Andrew Bynum in the future.

If one assumes this owner is comfortable going well over the cap and paying the luxury tax - essentially money is no obstacle - to build a cohesive team, then you are correct and I'd agree in principle. I still don't know that I'd want to invest heavily in Anthony in particular because he hasn't shown he's got what it takes upstairs to match his talent, and it would cost me a promising young player and maybe some draft choices. Anthony on the Nets w/o Favors results in a worse team than the Nuggets are now. Maybe it'll be fun to be average for a half season or so, but eventually it won't be satisfying, you'll be looking for a good 4 to prop up Lopez (which you possibly traded away to get Anthony) and you'll be stuck with a max contract entering the down side of his career who needs to be the man. So to improve that situation you hand out another max contract to Chris Paul? Just doesn't look like a great way to build a competitive team long term. You're chasing the points. I'd rather roll the dice, hang on to Favors, see if Anthony comes free in FA, then add him plus probably add another decent player with the 1st rounder you didn't trade away. If you miss out on Anthony, no big deal, catch the next big thing when you're an even more attractive destination.

 

[Kev4029]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

Might not be a good idea but it isn't a franchise killer. I don't know whom you consider the legitimate franchise centerpieces in the NBA but I would imagine the Nets already whiffed on several off them in the offseason. Paying Melo max money wouldn't be any less destructive than the Lakers paying for Lamar Odom the past few years and Andrew Bynum in the future.

If one assumes this owner is comfortable going well over the cap and paying the luxury tax - essentially money is no obstacle - to build a cohesive team, then you are correct and I'd agree in principle. I still don't know that I'd want to invest heavily in Anthony in particular because he hasn't shown he's got what it takes upstairs to match his talent, and it would cost me a promising young player and maybe some draft choices. Anthony on the Nets w/o Favors results in a worse team than the Nuggets are now. Maybe it'll be fun to be average for a half season or so, but eventually it won't be satisfying, you'll be looking for a good 4 to prop up Lopez (which you possibly traded away to get Anthony) and you'll be stuck with a max contract entering the down side of his career who needs to be the man. So to improve that situation you hand out another max contract to Chris Paul? Just doesn't look like a great way to build a competitive team long term. You're chasing the points. I'd rather roll the dice, hang on to Favors, see if Anthony comes free in FA, then add him plus probably add another decent player with the 1st rounder you didn't trade away. If you miss out on Anthony, no big deal, catch the next big thing when you're an even more attractive destination.

Melo's game will age incredibly well and if he gets that 3 year extension he'll only be an ancient 30 years old in the final year of the contract. Thirty years old for a 6' 8" 230lb small forward with the best inside-outside game in the NBA is still directly in his prime. I don't see Melo's game taking much of a hit until his mid thirties (33 or 34) but he'll still be an all star level talent into his later 30s because of his combination of athleticism, size, skill and body control.

 

[Gr00vus]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

I've used this once before in here, but Melo was picked number 5 in our build a franchise draft. That means, according to the FFA, he is the 5th best franchise player in the NBA. If we did that again today at worst he may have slipped behind Rose with smaller possibility of somebody taking either Westbrook or Wall. Melo is 2nd in scoring for SFs, 1st in rebounding, 2nd in assists, 6th in steals, 3rd in FTA (shooting .867) and 2nd in PER (trailing Lebron by 0.08).... If he's not a franchise player then you don't have a single franchise player in the NBA. You're being ridiculous.

Whoever took him at 5 seriously ####ed up.There's more to being a franchise player than stats. For starters, not doing absolutely stupid #### during crunch time on a regular basis would be good.Wade, James (though his status is slipping, dude needs to grow up), Durant, Rose, Williams, Paul, Howard, Westbrook, Rondo - I'd take them all ahead of Anthony to start a franchise right now. Probably a couple of other guys I'm forgetting and some youngsters like Wall, Griffin, maybe Evans. Probably some older guys too like Gasol, Bryant, Nowitzki.

 

[No. 16]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

I've used this once before in here, but Melo was picked number 5 in our build a franchise draft. That means, according to the FFA, he is the 5th best franchise player in the NBA. If we did that again today at worst he may have slipped behind Rose with smaller possibility of somebody taking either Westbrook or Wall. Melo is 2nd in scoring for SFs, 1st in rebounding, 2nd in assists, 6th in steals, 3rd in FTA (shooting .867) and 2nd in PER (trailing Lebron by 0.08).... If he's not a franchise player then you don't have a single franchise player in the NBA.

You're being ridiculous.

He's not a great defender and his scoring prowess is a bit overrated compared to his high scoring peers. Since 2003-2004 players avg 20+ ppg ranked by TS%

As you can see in the link Melo ranks #8 in ppg out of 20 (we'll throw out Mashburn since it only counts 1 year), but ranks #16 out of 20 in TS%. To compound matters, out of the 7 guys who rank ahead of him in PPG only Allen Iverson and his 53.2% TS rank below that of Carmelo. So there are 6 of his contemporaries that score more and do it more efficiently. Melo's calling card is his offense and while impressive compared to the rest of the NBA he doesn't stack up against fellow All*Stars.

I will admit he's an above average rebounder for the SF position and this year the best, but other wise his defense is lacking. His steals look great compared to SFs, but he's 40th in the league overall (hardly game changing) and we all know it's not a great indicator of defensive abilities. Also, his assist totals are a function of being the 6th most used player since he came into the league and of all the wingmen in the top 10 only Durant has a lower AST% and the 5 guys ahead of him (Kobe, Wade, LBJ, and Tracy McGrady) are superior passers based on APG and AST%.

So it's fine to compare Melo to other SFs, but if you want to compare him to the elite/franchise players he falls short IMO.

Great, but overrated scorer and mediocre at best in every other facet of the game.

 

[Kev4029]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

I've used this once before in here, but Melo was picked number 5 in our build a franchise draft. That means, according to the FFA, he is the 5th best franchise player in the NBA. If we did that again today at worst he may have slipped behind Rose with smaller possibility of somebody taking either Westbrook or Wall. Melo is 2nd in scoring for SFs, 1st in rebounding, 2nd in assists, 6th in steals, 3rd in FTA (shooting .867) and 2nd in PER (trailing Lebron by 0.08).... If he's not a franchise player then you don't have a single franchise player in the NBA. You're being ridiculous.

Whoever took him at 5 seriously ####ed up.There's more to being a franchise player than stats. For starters, not doing absolutely stupid #### during crunch time on a regular basis would be good.Wade, James (though his status is slipping, dude needs to grow up), Durant, Rose, Williams, Paul, Howard, Westbrook, Rondo - I'd take them all ahead of Anthony to start a franchise right now. Probably a couple of other guys I'm forgetting and some youngsters like Wall, Griffin, maybe Evans. Probably some older guys too like Gasol, Bryant, Nowitzki.

Howard, Lebron, Paul and Durant were the 4 players picked before him. What don't you like about Melo but you like in Westbrook, Rondo, Rose, Wall, Griffin, Evans, Williams, Dirk and Gasol?

 

[No. 16]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

I've used this once before in here, but Melo was picked number 5 in our build a franchise draft. That means, according to the FFA, he is the 5th best franchise player in the NBA. If we did that again today at worst he may have slipped behind Rose with smaller possibility of somebody taking either Westbrook or Wall. Melo is 2nd in scoring for SFs, 1st in rebounding, 2nd in assists, 6th in steals, 3rd in FTA (shooting .867) and 2nd in PER (trailing Lebron by 0.08).... If he's not a franchise player then you don't have a single franchise player in the NBA. You're being ridiculous.

Whoever took him at 5 seriously ####ed up.There's more to being a franchise player than stats. For starters, not doing absolutely stupid #### during crunch time on a regular basis would be good.Wade, James (though his status is slipping, dude needs to grow up), Durant, Rose, Williams, Paul, Howard, Westbrook, Rondo - I'd take them all ahead of Anthony to start a franchise right now. Probably a couple of other guys I'm forgetting and some youngsters like Wall, Griffin, maybe Evans. Probably some older guys too like Gasol, Bryant, Nowitzki.

Howard, Lebron, Paul and Durant were the 4 players picked before him. What don't you like about Melo but you like in Westbrook, Rondo, Rose, Wall, Griffin, Evans, Williams, Dirk and Gasol?

Generally they have some combination of the following in addition to scoring: younger, ability to make other betters, play defense, or are legit big men. Though at this point in time Dirk/Melo is a toss up for me.

 

[Kev4029]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

I've used this once before in here, but Melo was picked number 5 in our build a franchise draft. That means, according to the FFA, he is the 5th best franchise player in the NBA. If we did that again today at worst he may have slipped behind Rose with smaller possibility of somebody taking either Westbrook or Wall. Melo is 2nd in scoring for SFs, 1st in rebounding, 2nd in assists, 6th in steals, 3rd in FTA (shooting .867) and 2nd in PER (trailing Lebron by 0.08).... If he's not a franchise player then you don't have a single franchise player in the NBA.

You're being ridiculous.

He's not a great defender and his scoring prowess is a bit overrated compared to his high scoring peers. Since 2003-2004 players avg 20+ ppg ranked by TS%

As you can see in the link Melo ranks #8 in ppg out of 20 (we'll through out Mashburn since it onlys counts 1 year), but ranks #16 out of 20 in TS%. To compound matters, out of the 7 guys who rank ahead of him in PPG only Allen Iverson and his 53.2% TS rank below that of Carmelo. So there are 6 of his contemporaries that score more and do it more efficiently. Melo's calling card is his offense and while impressive compared to the rest of the NBA he doesn't stack up against fellow All*Stars.

I will admit he's an above average rebounder for the SF position and this year the best, but other wise his defense is lacking. His steals look great compared to SFs, but he's 40th in the league overall (hardly game changing) and we all know it's not a great indicator of defensive abilities. Also, his assist totals are a function of being the 6th most used player since he came into the league and the 5 guys ahead of him (Kobe, Wade, LBJ, and Tracy McGrady) are superior passers based on APG and AST%.

So it's fine to compare Melo to other SFs, but if you want to compare him to the elite/franchise players he falls short IMO.

Great, but overrated scorer and mediocre at best in every other facet of the game.

My point wasn't that he does everything at an elite level, but there are VERY few perimeter players that can deliver his entire package. People love to rip on his defense, but he has become an adequate defender over the last 3-4 years.How many players in the NBA have as well rounded of a game as Melo?

Lebron, Wade, Paul, D Williams?

 

[timschochet]

Lakers are in trouble tonight. It may be time to change the subtitle again.

 

[No. 16]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

I've used this once before in here, but Melo was picked number 5 in our build a franchise draft. That means, according to the FFA, he is the 5th best franchise player in the NBA. If we did that again today at worst he may have slipped behind Rose with smaller possibility of somebody taking either Westbrook or Wall. Melo is 2nd in scoring for SFs, 1st in rebounding, 2nd in assists, 6th in steals, 3rd in FTA (shooting .867) and 2nd in PER (trailing Lebron by 0.08).... If he's not a franchise player then you don't have a single franchise player in the NBA.

You're being ridiculous.

He's not a great defender and his scoring prowess is a bit overrated compared to his high scoring peers. Since 2003-2004 players avg 20+ ppg ranked by TS%

As you can see in the link Melo ranks #8 in ppg out of 20 (we'll through out Mashburn since it onlys counts 1 year), but ranks #16 out of 20 in TS%. To compound matters, out of the 7 guys who rank ahead of him in PPG only Allen Iverson and his 53.2% TS rank below that of Carmelo. So there are 6 of his contemporaries that score more and do it more efficiently. Melo's calling card is his offense and while impressive compared to the rest of the NBA he doesn't stack up against fellow All*Stars.

I will admit he's an above average rebounder for the SF position and this year the best, but other wise his defense is lacking. His steals look great compared to SFs, but he's 40th in the league overall (hardly game changing) and we all know it's not a great indicator of defensive abilities. Also, his assist totals are a function of being the 6th most used player since he came into the league and the 5 guys ahead of him (Kobe, Wade, LBJ, and Tracy McGrady) are superior passers based on APG and AST%.

So it's fine to compare Melo to other SFs, but if you want to compare him to the elite/franchise players he falls short IMO.

Great, but overrated scorer and mediocre at best in every other facet of the game.

My point wasn't that he does everything at an elite level, but there are VERY few perimeter players that can deliver his entire package. People love to rip on his defense, but he has become an adequate defender over the last 3-4 years.How many players in the NBA have as well rounded of a game as Melo?

Lebron, Wade, Paul, D Williams?

Well-rounded =/= Franchise player. Again he's very good. There's no disputing that, but that doesn't make him a championship/franchise player. Like I've said before he's closer in impact to Joe Johnson then to LBJ, Wade, Paul, and D Will.

I'd also gladly take the not so well-rounded game of Steve Nash or Rondo over Melo.

 

[Gr00vus]

What don't you like about Melo but you like in Westbrook, Rondo, Rose, Wall, Griffin, Evans, Williams, Dirk and Gasol?

Rondo, Rose, Wall, Williams, Westbrook - dominant point guards with (seemingly) near complete games at their position. Rondo makes up for his lack of range with his excellence in other areas. I value that position more than a scoring 3. Westbrook and Wall could be insanely good, they're just tapping their potential.Evans - I said maybe here, not sure, he's young yet. Anthony was better than Evans at this stage of his career so probably not.Dirk because he's got slight edges statistically and at least got his team to a championship once. Gasol is just a better player all around, except shooting from distance, than Anthony and plays the 4/5.Griffin - I don't know what to say about this guy, he's a flat out freak, he's dominating and still has a ton of room to develop, and he's a 4. He's like Barkley but he's 6'10". People should really suffer through Clipper games to watch him play. If he can avoid injury/the Clipper curse I think he'll be a top 5 consideration in these kinds of discussions.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Because it would make them a better team. Just because a move isn't going to make you an immediate champion contender doesn't mean you should sit on your hands. Melo will only be 27 next year, its not like he just has a year or two left in him.

Giving franchise centerpiece money to a guy who isn't going to be your franchise centerpiece isn't a good idea, much less giving up valuable assets in addition to do so. I think that's the crux of the debate you and No16. are having - is Anthony a franchise centerpiece? I don't think so, so I agree with No16. on this one.

Might not be a good idea but it isn't a franchise killer. I don't know whom you consider the legitimate franchise centerpieces in the NBA but I would imagine the Nets already whiffed on several off them in the offseason. Paying Melo max money wouldn't be any less destructive than the Lakers paying for Lamar Odom the past few years and Andrew Bynum in the future.

Funny you mention the Lakers, because they are a prime example of being patient and making the right moves.- Odom was acquired with Caron Butler and signed for 6yrs/70 million.- Bynum was drafted with 1st round draft pick and signed for 4yrs/57 million. Both players are getting less than what Melo would be getting (3 years MAX ~ 20 million) so salary wise their deals aren't too bad. Also, you add in the fact that they are big men who rebound/defend vs. a scoring SF. So the money is invested in decent commodities. In the Odom deal the Lakers gave-up the OLDER "SUPERSTAR" for young talent (Odom/Butler vs Favors/1st rounders) and MAYBE it works out for Nets like it did for the Heat, but I don't see Lopez or Melo being a Top 3 NBA player like Wade. And guess what? The Nets will miss out on their chance to acquire an Andrew Bynum type by trading away their 1st rounders for Melo.So as you can see the Nets are GIVING UP A LOT to acquire a player to only become a middle of the road playoff team. I was unaware they had the cap space to make a run at a max level player before extending Lopez (what year is this kiddnets?), so their plan MAY work if they can acquire Chris Paul. If that's what they're going for then kudos to them for the plan.

The Lakers had one of the best players in the league handed to them. Without Gasol they wouldn't have won squat the past three years.

And in acquiring Pau Gasol they gave up young talent, picks and cap flexibility