*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (26 Viewers)

[Premier]

Magic had to make these trades. Vince is a #### and Lewis is a dead body out there. Time to reshuffle the deck, they weren't winning it with that lineup.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Knick fans are pretty quiet today... maybe they aren't for real?

No Knicks fan really thinks this team is a top contender yet. Playoff team yes but they need another piece to compete with the top teams and maybe Melo is that piece.

Dwight Howard could be that piece. I doubt they would that that much better with Melo. They are already scoring 108 points per game. They need considerable help on defense to be a top team.

Howard will probably sign there after Melo and Paul do.

 

[Balco]

Magic had to make these trades. Vince is a #### and Lewis is a dead body out there. Time to reshuffle the deck, they weren't winning it with that lineup.

True, they weren't winning with their current roster, but they aren't going to win the East with the new group of players, and now they are saddled with long term albatross type contracts. Carters deal was up after this year, and Lewis' in 2 years. Howard is still very young. They need to build around him, and they could have assembled a very good roster in 2 years with Carter and Lewis contracts off the books. Having Dwight Howard would also always keep them in the playoffs in those 2 years.

 

[Balco]

And one thing I don't understand regarding Vince Carter trade. If they want to get rid of his contract, trade him to New Jersey for Troy Murphy's expiring deal. Murphy is buried in Avery Johnson's dog house and fits Stan Van Gundy's system well. Would be a nice player to pair with Howard.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Wonder what Steve Kerr is thinking right now.

 

[Premier]

They can't wait two years Balco. Not an option.

 

[Balco]

They can't wait two years Balco. Not an option.

Why? Just curious. Do you disagree that even with this new lineup they won't win the East?

 

[Gadfly]

You might want to mention that Kobe only scored 9 points because his pinkie had swollen to the size of your brain.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Magic had to make these trades. Vince is a #### and Lewis is a dead body out there. Time to reshuffle the deck, they weren't winning it with that lineup.

I agree. Maybe Orlando should dump Stan and bring in an uptempo D'Antoni disciple and try to overwhelm opposing teams with Nelson, JRich, and Reddick on the first team with Bass and Howard, and then run Arenas and Hedo out there with Howard on the 2nd team and keep running.

 

[tommyGunZ]

They can't wait two years Balco. Not an option.

Why? Just curious. Do you disagree that even with this new lineup they won't win the East?

You don't waste two years of Howard's prime hoping for an upgrade - and who knows would even be available in 2 years?

 

[boubucarow]

I just can't believe the Magic are now depending on Turkoglu and Arenas for the next 4 years.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You might want to mention that Kobe only scored 9 points because his pinkie had swollen to the size of your brain.

Do we really need the personal attacks?

 

[D'OHtis]

I like the deal for the Suns personally. Vince won't be around long. (Unless they express desire to remain here [which is possible with both), Nash/Hill may be gone too).

Suns gotta blow it up. As great of condition as Nash remains in (make no mistake Hill & Shaq will credit Nash with changing the way they eat and lengthening their careers), he's going to slow down more at some point. They had their shots during Nash/Marion/Amare eras and then after with Nash/Amare/Richardson and came up short. Was a good run. Time to reload.

Sarver's been known to penny pinch, but I agree here saving the $$ and building for another day. Hedo's been atrocious this year. (I think Orlando's in for a big surprise if they expect the Hedo of old). Rotoworld is showing only 1 year left on that Hedo deal -- I'm very certain that is incorrect. I think he just signed a new one (last year?)

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Rotoworld is showing only 1 year left on that Hedo deal -- I'm very certain that is incorrect. I think he just signed a new one (last year?)

Yeah, he signed a 5-year deal with Toronto before last season.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Sarver's been known to penny pinch, but I agree here saving the $$ and building for another day.

He's not saving much. Carter/Gortat/Pietrus are due $60 million while Richardson/Turkoglu/Clark were due $60.3 million.

 

[Balco]

Sarver's been known to penny pinch, but I agree here saving the $$ and building for another day.

He's not saving much. Carter/Gortat/Pietrus are due $60 million while Richardson/Turkoglu/Clark were due $60.3 million.

This year or over the life of the contracts? It was my understanding, that the Suns save a ton going forward.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Sarver's been known to penny pinch, but I agree here saving the $$ and building for another day.

He's not saving much. Carter/Gortat/Pietrus are due $60 million while Richardson/Turkoglu/Clark were due $60.3 million.

This year or over the life of the contracts? It was my understanding, that the Suns save a ton going forward.

SalariesCarter: 17.3 this year, plus $4M guaranteed for next year

Gortat: 6.3, 6.8, 7.3, 7.7

Pietrus: 5.3 this year, 5.3M player option next year (another site has it at 5.6 and 6.0)

Total: $60-61 million depending on which sites are correct

Richardson: $14.4 this year, then off the books

Turkoglu: 9.8, 10.6, 11.4, then 12.2 player option

Clark: 1.9

Total: $60.3 million

So, the total amount saved is not much, but they basically get 2 players for the price of Turkoglu so they're "saving" by not having to sign another player. Plus, Phoenix is probably getting $3 million in cash to cover most of Carter's buyout.

 

[Gadfly]

You might want to mention that Kobe only scored 9 points because his pinkie had swollen to the size of your brain.

Do we really need the personal attacks?

I meant it as a compliment. That Kobe's finger had swollen up so badly, it was the size of your large brain. And someone with a finger that large would have a difficult time scoring. Why so sensitive?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Sarver's been known to penny pinch, but I agree here saving the $$ and building for another day.

He's not saving much. Carter/Gortat/Pietrus are due $60 million while Richardson/Turkoglu/Clark were due $60.3 million.

This year or over the life of the contracts? It was my understanding, that the Suns save a ton going forward.

SalariesCarter: 17.3 this year, plus $4M guaranteed for next year

Gortat: 6.3, 6.8, 7.3, 7.7

Pietrus: 5.3 this year, 5.3M player option next year (another site has it at 5.6 and 6.0)

Total: $60-61 million depending on which sites are correct

Richardson: $14.4 this year, then off the books

Turkoglu: 9.8, 10.6, 11.4, then 12.2 player option

Clark: 1.9

Total: $60.3 million

So, the total amount saved is not much, but they basically get 2 players for the price of Turkoglu so they're "saving" by not having to sign another player. Plus, Phoenix is probably getting $3 million in cash to cover most of Carter's buyout.

I assume there are teams willing to give cap relief if they want to move Gortat and/or Pietrus in the future. Obviously much less demand for Turkoglu.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You might want to mention that Kobe only scored 9 points because his pinkie had swollen to the size of your brain.

Do we really need the personal attacks?

I meant it as a compliment. That Kobe's finger had swollen up so badly, it was the size of your large brain. And someone with a finger that large would have a difficult time scoring. Why so sensitive?

Nice back pedal.

 

[Green94]

WTF is Orlando doing?

 

[Gadfly]

You might want to mention that Kobe only scored 9 points because his pinkie had swollen to the size of your brain.

Do we really need the personal attacks?

I meant it as a compliment. That Kobe's finger had swollen up so badly, it was the size of your large brain. And someone with a finger that large would have a difficult time scoring. Why so sensitive?

Nice back pedal.

It's what I meant the whole time. If I was saying your brain was small, then Kobe's finger would have been small and wouldn't affect his shooting. That wouldn't make any sense, you silly guy.

 

[Balco]

Sarver's been known to penny pinch, but I agree here saving the $$ and building for another day.

He's not saving much. Carter/Gortat/Pietrus are due $60 million while Richardson/Turkoglu/Clark were due $60.3 million.

This year or over the life of the contracts? It was my understanding, that the Suns save a ton going forward.

SalariesCarter: 17.3 this year, plus $4M guaranteed for next year

Gortat: 6.3, 6.8, 7.3, 7.7

Pietrus: 5.3 this year, 5.3M player option next year (another site has it at 5.6 and 6.0)

Total: $60-61 million depending on which sites are correct

Richardson: $14.4 this year, then off the books

Turkoglu: 9.8, 10.6, 11.4, then 12.2 player option

Clark: 1.9

Total: $60.3 million

So, the total amount saved is not much, but they basically get 2 players for the price of Turkoglu so they're "saving" by not having to sign another player. Plus, Phoenix is probably getting $3 million in cash to cover most of Carter's buyout.

Oof. That Turkaglu contract is atrocious. Wow.Didn't realize Richardson is off the books after next year, which makes the deal even worse for the Magic, IMO, as Richardson is the good player in that deal. So they basicaly took on Turkaglu's albatross of a contract for 1 year of Richardson? Terrible.

And owing 60 + mil to Gilbert Arenas is pretty bad too.

 

[Tuco]

Wizards basketball is painful.

 

[JZilla]

Wizards with a fairly impressive choke after having the upset in hand in the last minute. Not sure how they call the foul against Wade but not against Hinrich on the other end, but that's the NBA.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Magic had to make these trades. Vince is a #### and Lewis is a dead body out there. Time to reshuffle the deck, they weren't winning it with that lineup.

True, they weren't winning with their current roster, but they aren't going to win the East with the new group of players, and now they are saddled with long term albatross type contracts. Carters deal was up after this year, and Lewis' in 2 years. Howard is still very young. They need to build around him, and they could have assembled a very good roster in 2 years with Carter and Lewis contracts off the books. Having Dwight Howard would also always keep them in the playoffs in those 2 years.

Lewis doesn't expire until after 2012-13. And the Magic only have Howard locked up through next season. They can't just assume he'll be there after that.I'm not sure what I think of the deals overall. Richardson was a good addition, and him coming off the books at 14M is a good thing. He turns 30 in a month. If they really want him back they can probably get him for that price or cheaper. Turkoglu's contract is terrible and his impact as a player won't be that great. Arenas is a bad contract but so was Lewis, and Gilbert has a better chance to help the team as a player.Does this make the Magic title favorites? No. But sitting around getting mediocre and watching Howard get frustrated for two years, then assuming he'll stick around for the reloading... I don't think that was an option at all.

 

[Raider Nation]

Nice CHOKE JOB D-Rose.....

 

[Premier]

Balco - you keep talking about Arenas like they didn't give up Lewis. His contract is terrible, and his play is even worse.

The Magic won that deal. Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

 

[Shtaym Syek]

Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

Hyperbole is the greatest thing in the world!

 

[Green94]

Nice CHOKE JOB D-Rose.....

He won't forget that one for a long time.

 

[Premier]

Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

Hyperbole is the greatest thing in the world!

I know your shtick is to drop into conversations unsolicited with snarky comments that attempts to make you appear smarter than you are...but Lewis is very likely the worst starter in the league. He contributes nothing. When you factor in the money paid, it's a no-brainer.

 

[LHUCKS]

I like the deal for the Suns personally. Vince won't be around long. (Unless they express desire to remain here [which is possible with both), Nash/Hill may be gone too). Suns gotta blow it up. As great of condition as Nash remains in (make no mistake Hill & Shaq will credit Nash with changing the way they eat and lengthening their careers), he's going to slow down more at some point. They had their shots during Nash/Marion/Amare eras and then after with Nash/Amare/Richardson and came up short. Was a good run. Time to reload.Sarver's been known to penny pinch, but I agree here saving the $$ and building for another day.

If Sarver doesn't rebuild quick though, there's going to be a backlash...Suns fans are used to being a top contender in the West. The wrath of Phoenix will be upon him if it's not a quick turnaround.

 

[LHUCKS]

I think people are forgetting that Arenas has top 10 player firepower...he's going to bring a level of deadly from the perimeter the Magic didn't have.

I really like the trade for the Suns...local media is raving about the center.

 

[Balco]

Balco - you keep talking about Arenas like they didn't give up Lewis. His contract is terrible, and his play is even worse.The Magic won that deal. Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

Lewis is horrible, and has a horrible contract, agreed. But it is the length. this year and next for Lewis, while I believe Arenas has 4 more years with his albatross contract. Add that to getting an atrocious Turkaglu and his horrid contract, and the magic have zero wiggle room to actually surround Howard with talent that can get them back to the finals.The Magic don't need names. They need role players that fit the system well.The only player I like in that deal is Richardson. And he is gone next year.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Balco - you keep talking about Arenas like they didn't give up Lewis. His contract is terrible, and his play is even worse.

The Magic won that deal. Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

Lewis is horrible, and has a horrible contract, agreed. But it is the length. this year and next for Lewis, while I believe Arenas has 4 more years with his albatross contract. Add that to getting an atrocious Turkaglu and his horrid contract, and the magic have zero wiggle room to actually surround Howard with talent that can get them back to the finals.The Magic don't need names. They need role players that fit the system well.

The only player I like in that deal is Richardson. And he is gone next year.

Why do you assume that? What teams have cap space next year and are going to outbid the Magic?

 

[Balco]

Balco - you keep talking about Arenas like they didn't give up Lewis. His contract is terrible, and his play is even worse.

The Magic won that deal. Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

Lewis is horrible, and has a horrible contract, agreed. But it is the length. this year and next for Lewis, while I believe Arenas has 4 more years with his albatross contract. Add that to getting an atrocious Turkaglu and his horrid contract, and the magic have zero wiggle room to actually surround Howard with talent that can get them back to the finals.The Magic don't need names. They need role players that fit the system well.

The only player I like in that deal is Richardson. And he is gone next year.

Why do you assume that? What teams have cap space next year and are going to outbid the Magic?

With their depth issues in the front court, do you really think the Magic would attempt to keep Richardson? For better or worse, they have Gilbert Arenas, Hedo Turkaglu, and JJ Reddick making very good money. And there is the looming extension for Howard.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Balco - you keep talking about Arenas like they didn't give up Lewis. His contract is terrible, and his play is even worse.

The Magic won that deal. Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

Lewis is horrible, and has a horrible contract, agreed. But it is the length. this year and next for Lewis, while I believe Arenas has 4 more years with his albatross contract. Add that to getting an atrocious Turkaglu and his horrid contract, and the magic have zero wiggle room to actually surround Howard with talent that can get them back to the finals.The Magic don't need names. They need role players that fit the system well.

The only player I like in that deal is Richardson. And he is gone next year.

Why do you assume that? What teams have cap space next year and are going to outbid the Magic?

With their depth issues in the front court, do you really think the Magic would attempt to keep Richardson? For better or worse, they have Gilbert Arenas, Hedo Turkaglu, and JJ Reddick making very good money. And there is the looming extension for Howard.

Exhibit A: GortatExhibit B: Redick

They don't like assets walking if money if the only object.

Edit: perhaps they'd do a sign and trade to get other assets or even a trade exception (assuming these still exist next year) but if we've learned anything from past actions, it will be a basketball decision not a financial one.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Balco - you keep talking about Arenas like they didn't give up Lewis. His contract is terrible, and his play is even worse.

The Magic won that deal. Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

Lewis is horrible, and has a horrible contract, agreed. But it is the length. this year and next for Lewis, while I believe Arenas has 4 more years with his albatross contract. Add that to getting an atrocious Turkaglu and his horrid contract, and the magic have zero wiggle room to actually surround Howard with talent that can get them back to the finals.The Magic don't need names. They need role players that fit the system well.

The only player I like in that deal is Richardson. And he is gone next year.

Why do you assume that? What teams have cap space next year and are going to outbid the Magic?

With their depth issues in the front court, do you really think the Magic would attempt to keep Richardson? For better or worse, they have Gilbert Arenas, Hedo Turkaglu, and JJ Reddick making very good money. And there is the looming extension for Howard.

Howard isn't going to sign an extension if the Magic don't make a legitimate effort to resign Richardson. That's their first priority and they haven't run their organization the past few years like a team afraid to spend money.

 

[GOB]

I'm glad Orlando is finally free of Rashard Lewis. I liked him but something is wrong with his play.

I really don't see this team being able to play with Miami and Boston still but I suppose you never really know.

Gortat will be missed.

 

[Mile High]

Despite contradicting reports there is no definitive word on if Melo will sign with NJ or not....so assuming NJ is the team Denver wants to deal with it will be up to Melo but if he says no then Denver can sit on him and he could lose a ton of $. I am not sure he would risk losing $20-$30M - Denver can play hard ball too - I think this is going to be a good old fashioned staring contest upto the deadline.

I don't think Stan Kroenke was any problem costing Mello millions before he accepts trash to give into Mellos wife. Nuggets isn't his only game in town. It will suck for the fans, but it's going to suck anyway, unless we get the Favors and picks deal.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

Hyperbole is the greatest thing in the world!

I know your shtick is to drop into conversations unsolicited with snarky comments that attempts to make you appear smarter than you are...but Lewis is very likely the worst starter in the league. He contributes nothing. When you factor in the money paid, it's a no-brainer.

I agree with moving Lewis, but suggesting he's the worst starter in the NBA is asinine.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

Hyperbole is the greatest thing in the world!

I know your shtick is to drop into conversations unsolicited with snarky comments that attempts to make you appear smarter than you are...but Lewis is very likely the worst starter in the league. He contributes nothing. When you factor in the money paid, it's a no-brainer.

I agree with moving Lewis, but suggesting he's the worst starter in the NBA is asinine.

He clarified meaning worst starter per dollar. That's harder to challenge. If money isn't a factor, as a Bulls fan, I nominate Keith Bogans.

 

[Kev4029]

Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

Hyperbole is the greatest thing in the world!

I know your shtick is to drop into conversations unsolicited with snarky comments that attempts to make you appear smarter than you are...but Lewis is very likely the worst starter in the league. He contributes nothing. When you factor in the money paid, it's a no-brainer.

I agree with moving Lewis, but suggesting he's the worst starter in the NBA is asinine.

He clarified meaning worst starter per dollar. That's harder to challenge. If money isn't a factor, as a Bulls fan, I nominate Keith Bogans.

Bogans is the name I would think of as the worst starter in basketball. Derek Fisher, Shelden Williams, Anthony Parker and Joey Graham/Jamario Moon are all right there too.

 

[Gadfly]

1 Kobe>3 Raptors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWwKh9dpCuE

Bad day to be a hater. Bad decade to be a hater? Bad lifetime to be Cliff Clavin?

 

[LHUCKS]

Lewis is the worst starter in the league.

Hyperbole is the greatest thing in the world!

I know your shtick is to drop into conversations unsolicited with snarky comments that attempts to make you appear smarter than you are...but Lewis is very likely the worst starter in the league. He contributes nothing. When you factor in the money paid, it's a no-brainer.

I agree with moving Lewis, but suggesting he's the worst starter in the NBA is asinine.

He clarified meaning worst starter per dollar. That's harder to challenge. If money isn't a factor, as a Bulls fan, I nominate Keith Bogans.

I'd like to nominate Channing Frye...and yes, he went to my alma mater.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

1 Kobe>3 Raptors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWwKh9dpCuE

Bad day to be a hater. Bad decade to be a hater? Bad lifetime to be Cliff Clavin?

 

[TenTimes]

What team has the best record in the league?

 

[TenTimes]

I'd like to nominate Channing Frye...and yes, he went to my alma mater.

I think you mean you went to his, good buddy.

 

[Bobcat10]

1 Kobe>3 Raptors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWwKh9dpCuE

Bad day to be a hater. Bad decade to be a hater? Bad lifetime to be Cliff Clavin?

 

[Gr00vus]

I can't see the Magic keeping Arenas, Richardson and Reddick on the roster all year - their roster just doesn't make much sense right now. They'll do another deal, and I figure it'll be Richardson who goes, probably for front court help.

I don't think the Suns will be dealing Nash - he's all they've got to put butts in the seats. I also don't know how the Gorat/Lopez thing plays out. I guess depth up front is nice, but their roster doesn't look good right now either. I'm not sure, but I don't think Lopez has an awful deal, so maybe it won't be that important that he's coming off the bench?