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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

A loss, but a good performance for the Magic tonight. Dwight is ungodly.
It's probably going to take 10 games or so before we starting getting an idea on how good this new team is. The only piece that I am fairly sure won't work is Hedo. As a point forward he might have something left but he probably won't have that opportunity with a healthy Nelson.
The lowlight of the evening was (in back to back possessions) Hedo getting stuffed by the rim on a fast-break dunk attempt, and then coming down and bricking a 3 that barely touched the side of the backboard (and no rim).He's really horrible.
 
Brewer and Korver are really the split starters at SG with Bogans being the starter in name only.
This is another thing I've been thinking about. Do you ever remember a player starting all year long and then being squeezed out of the rotation in the playoffs? I don't. Yet I think we both would agree that the Deng-Brewer-Korver trio should get all the SG and SF minutes in the playoffs.
 
Brewer and Korver are really the split starters at SG with Bogans being the starter in name only.
This is another thing I've been thinking about. Do you ever remember a player starting all year long and then being squeezed out of the rotation in the playoffs? I don't. Yet I think we both would agree that the Deng-Brewer-Korver trio should get all the SG and SF minutes in the playoffs.
Yeah, I assume if no moves are made that it will be a matching game centering on Brewer's defense and Korver's offense.
 
watching David Lee for the first time in a while, boy does he look lost in GS now.

Glad the Knicks didnt give him all this money

 
Juxtatarot said:
So, the Lakers get blown out tonight.....
The supporting cast of Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom and friends really needs to learn to pick up the slack. Pau Gasol can't do everything.On a semi-serious note- I didn't watch the game and I'm just looking at the box score ... how in God's name does a team shoot 45.5% from the floor and only put up 79 points? Did both teams run the shot clock down to one second on every possession or something?

 
Juxtatarot said:
So, the Lakers get blown out tonight.....
The supporting cast of Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom and friends really needs to learn to pick up the slack. Pau Gasol can't do everything.On a semi-serious note- I didn't watch the game and I'm just looking at the box score ... how in God's name does a team shoot 45.5% from the floor and only put up 79 points? Did both teams run the shot clock down to one second on every possession or something?
The Lakers did run the shot clock way down on tons of possessions - like under 7 seconds. They also turned it over 16 times. And missed nearly half their free throws.Too bad you missed it, you would have enjoyed Kobe's petulant melt down.

 
Juxtatarot said:
So, the Lakers get blown out tonight.....
The supporting cast of Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom and friends really needs to learn to pick up the slack. Pau Gasol can't do everything.On a semi-serious note- I didn't watch the game and I'm just looking at the box score ... how in God's name does a team shoot 45.5% from the floor and only put up 79 points? Did both teams run the shot clock down to one second on every possession or something?
The Lakers did run the shot clock way down on tons of possessions - like under 7 seconds. They also turned it over 16 times. And missed nearly half their free throws.Too bad you missed it, you would have enjoyed Kobe's petulant melt down.
It's not on the front page of espn.com and the article barely mentions it.I guess that's to be expected, though. They could hardly call themselves "The Worldwide Leader in Sports" if they didn't give us wall to wall coverage of Connecticut's women's basketball game moving into what appears to be a tie for the 4th longest NCAA Division I sports winning streak (I can't be sure because nobody, ESPN included, has actually bothered to list them authoritatively). So you'd expect coverage of something as trivial as the NBA to take a back seat.

 
Juxtatarot said:
So, the Lakers get blown out tonight.....
The supporting cast of Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom and friends really needs to learn to pick up the slack. Pau Gasol can't do everything.On a semi-serious note- I didn't watch the game and I'm just looking at the box score ... how in God's name does a team shoot 45.5% from the floor and only put up 79 points? Did both teams run the shot clock down to one second on every possession or something?
The Lakers did run the shot clock way down on tons of possessions - like under 7 seconds. They also turned it over 16 times. And missed nearly half their free throws.Too bad you missed it, you would have enjoyed Kobe's petulant melt down.
It's not on the front page of espn.com and the article barely mentions it.I guess that's to be expected, though. They could hardly call themselves "The Worldwide Leader in Sports" if they didn't give us wall to wall coverage of Connecticut's women's basketball game moving into what appears to be a tie for the 4th longest NCAA Division I sports winning streak (I can't be sure because nobody, ESPN included, has actually bothered to list them authoritatively). So you'd expect coverage of something as trivial as the NBA to take a back seat.
Well deserved double T's for mouthing off with the ref giving him the run with a nice parting arm motion after the second T. You'd have been proud.What's this "women's basketball" thing you're talking about?

Also they called carrying 3 times in the game last night - once against Kobe even. :shock:

 
Knicks with a great bounce back performance for the win against OK City after the debacle against Clev.

Gotta love Fields stat line

14 pts

10 reb

3 asst

2 stl

1 blk

19 minutes played

 
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One thing about Fields, he really does so many things that dont show up in the stat sheet. He always tipping the rebounds to teamates, clogging up passing lanes on D, and making the 1,2 assist passes.

Love the kid, hope we dont deal him and Chandler in deal for Melo

 
Larry Brown quits. I, for one, am shocked - again.
i think they're going to blow up that team. it was just a bad team with a coach who wore out his welcome. he akin to don nelson at this point in the league history. they'll gut the team. i can't believe they're really targeting someone like baron davis though. that just seems counter intuitive somehow.
 
Larry Brown quits. I, for one, am shocked - again.
i think they're going to blow up that team. it was just a bad team with a coach who wore out his welcome. he akin to don nelson at this point in the league history. they'll gut the team. i can't believe they're really targeting someone like baron davis though. that just seems counter intuitive somehow.
I'd agree, although I don't know that there's much to "blow up." Given it's Jordan and the Bobcats, targeting Baron Davis makes perfect sense. They'll suck until Jordan isn't involved in any important basketball related decisions.
 
Larry Brown quits. I, for one, am shocked - again.
i think they're going to blow up that team. it was just a bad team with a coach who wore out his welcome. he akin to don nelson at this point in the league history. they'll gut the team. i can't believe they're really targeting someone like baron davis though. that just seems counter intuitive somehow.
I'd agree, although I don't know that there's much to "blow up." Given it's Jordan and the Bobcats, targeting Baron Davis makes perfect sense. They'll suck until Jordan isn't involved in any important basketball related decisions.
There is tons to blow up, I just don't think they will find any takers for the contracts of Jackson at 3 years $29 mil, Diaw at 2 years $18 mil Diop at 3 years $21 mil, Carroll at 3 years $12 mil, and Najera at 2 years $5.5 mil. They have to have the worst collection of bad contracts in the league, even the Pistons are laughing at the state of the Bobcats cap. The only good contract on the entire team is Augustin's and he is on a rookie deal. The Bobcats are positioned nicely to win 30-35 games for the next 3 years, and they only way out of their cap restricted hell is to dump contracts with the few assets they have (something like a first rounder with Carroll and Najera or Wallace and Diop for cap space).
 
Larry Brown quits. I, for one, am shocked - again.
i think they're going to blow up that team. it was just a bad team with a coach who wore out his welcome. he akin to don nelson at this point in the league history. they'll gut the team. i can't believe they're really targeting someone like baron davis though. that just seems counter intuitive somehow.
I'd agree, although I don't know that there's much to "blow up." Given it's Jordan and the Bobcats, targeting Baron Davis makes perfect sense. They'll suck until Jordan isn't involved in any important basketball related decisions.
There is tons to blow up
To me "to blow up" means you've had a decent level of success with a roster you've put together according to some sort of plan, but have realized you can't get any farther with that roster so you're going to do a total rebuild. Shuffling players (on whatever scale) on a bad team doesn't count as "blowing up" in my book. "To blow up" implies some sort of risk that you might not attain the level of success you had prior to the "blow up."For example, last offseason, had Boston let Allen and Pierce walk, dealt Garnett to bring in younger talent - that'd have been a "blow up." But the Bobcats turning over a crummy roster because they continue to suck - that's not a "blow up." Even Wallace doesn't seem to be worth much anymore.
 
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Larry Brown quits. I, for one, am shocked - again.
i think they're going to blow up that team. it was just a bad team with a coach who wore out his welcome. he akin to don nelson at this point in the league history. they'll gut the team. i can't believe they're really targeting someone like baron davis though. that just seems counter intuitive somehow.
I'd agree, although I don't know that there's much to "blow up." Given it's Jordan and the Bobcats, targeting Baron Davis makes perfect sense. They'll suck until Jordan isn't involved in any important basketball related decisions.
i don't know. according to the yahoo sports article i read, dj augustin was larry brown's decision. jordan was prepared to take lopez. that could have made them a different team. i like the paul silas selection. he's a players coach and they should respond. i don't think they'll make the playoffs but they just need to not suck for sials to return. even more interesting to me is seeing charles oakley on his staff. i want to see oak do something with tyrus thomas. make a man of him!
 
To me "to blow up" means you've had a decent level of success with a roster you've put together according to some sort of plan, but have realized you can't get any farther with that roster so you're going to do a total rebuild. Shuffling players (on whatever scale) on a bad team doesn't count as "blowing up" in my book.

For example, last offseason, had Boston let Allen and Pierce walk, dealt Garnett to bring in younger talent - that'd have been a "blow up." But the Bobcats turning over a crummy roster because they continue to suck - that's not a "blow up." Even Wallace doesn't seem to be worth much anymore.
don't tell No16 that, ok? he and josh childress are valuable players.
 
Larry Brown quits. I, for one, am shocked - again.
i think they're going to blow up that team. it was just a bad team with a coach who wore out his welcome. he akin to don nelson at this point in the league history. they'll gut the team. i can't believe they're really targeting someone like baron davis though. that just seems counter intuitive somehow.
I'd agree, although I don't know that there's much to "blow up." Given it's Jordan and the Bobcats, targeting Baron Davis makes perfect sense. They'll suck until Jordan isn't involved in any important basketball related decisions.
i don't know. according to the yahoo sports article i read, dj augustin was larry brown's decision. jordan was prepared to take lopez. that could have made them a different team. i like the paul silas selection. he's a players coach and they should respond. i don't think they'll make the playoffs but they just need to not suck for sials to return. even more interesting to me is seeing charles oakley on his staff. i want to see oak do something with tyrus thomas. make a man of him!
You're right, I'm probably being too hard on Jordan. But his track record for player evaluation to date isn't that good.
 
To me "to blow up" means you've had a decent level of success with a roster you've put together according to some sort of plan, but have realized you can't get any farther with that roster so you're going to do a total rebuild. Shuffling players (on whatever scale) on a bad team doesn't count as "blowing up" in my book.

For example, last offseason, had Boston let Allen and Pierce walk, dealt Garnett to bring in younger talent - that'd have been a "blow up." But the Bobcats turning over a crummy roster because they continue to suck - that's not a "blow up." Even Wallace doesn't seem to be worth much anymore.
don't tell No16 that, ok? he and josh childress are valuable players.
I liked his game, but he doesn't seem to be able to stay on the court enough for it to matter.
 
You're right, I'm probably being too hard on Jordan. But his track record for player evaluation to date isn't that good.
this is true to some degree. i'm willing to cut him some slack though. it's hard to be jordan the FO guy when you are still jordan. he's still learning the position, i think.
 
To me "to blow up" means you've had a decent level of success with a roster you've put together according to some sort of plan, but have realized you can't get any farther with that roster so you're going to do a total rebuild. Shuffling players (on whatever scale) on a bad team doesn't count as "blowing up" in my book.

For example, last offseason, had Boston let Allen and Pierce walk, dealt Garnett to bring in younger talent - that'd have been a "blow up." But the Bobcats turning over a crummy roster because they continue to suck - that's not a "blow up." Even Wallace doesn't seem to be worth much anymore.
don't tell No16 that, ok? he and josh childress are valuable players.
Haha.Gerald Wallace is still a stud in my book and would be a great addition to any team. Why the Magic traded for Arenas/Hedo when Wallace is possibly available makes me baffled. He's still an above average two way player and there are not many of those in the league.

As for Childress the only reason he doesn't get much burn in PHO is because he doesn't shoots 3s. Put him on a team that doesn't need/value 3 point shooting as much and he'd be gold. He's another guy who's a two way player.

Wallace can be the 2nd best player on a championship team (though you'd want him to be the 3rd best scorer) and I'm confident that Childress can be a starter/6th man for a championship team. At least Childress is getting some burn now that J-RIch is gone and he's doing the same thing he's always done: play D, rebounds, scores efficiently, and takes care of the ball.

 
I love to see the Melo to Dallas rumors recently. Come on Cuban keep stirring the pot, so the Nets might up their offer.
I don't think it's a matter of Denver accepting the Nets offer, it's the Nets convincing Melo to sign an extension with them.
Agree 100%, if Melo agrees to go to NJ there is really nothing that anybody else will/can offer that is close to what they will get from the Nets.
 
Haha.

Gerald Wallace is still a stud in my book and would be a great addition to any team. Why the Magic traded for Arenas/Hedo when Wallace is possibly available makes me baffled. He's still an above average two way player and there are not many of those in the league.
arenas was a great roll of the dice. he might be a knucklehead at times but he didn't cost them anything really in player exchange. why they would want hedo again is beyond me. his nickname when he was played for the spurs was "he-don't"...
 
The Magic didn't really trade for Hedo. They traded for Richardson and were forced to take Hedo in the deal. I think most know that he's past whatever prime that he had.

 
Steelfan7 said:
Knicks with a great bounce back performance for the win against OK City after the debacle against Clev.
The stats for the Knicks vs Thunder are amazing:The Knicks had 30 assists on 42 field goals, 9 blocks, 10-21 from downtown and 18-21 from the line.
 
saintfool said:
No. 16 said:
Haha.

Gerald Wallace is still a stud in my book and would be a great addition to any team. Why the Magic traded for Arenas/Hedo when Wallace is possibly available makes me baffled. He's still an above average two way player and there are not many of those in the league.
arenas was a great roll of the dice. he might be a knucklehead at times but he didn't cost them anything really in player exchange. why they would want hedo again is beyond me. his nickname when he was played for the spurs was "he-don't"...
And there is no way in hell that the Bobcats would have taken any of the crap that Orlando traded for Wallace. Maybe they did pursue a Wallace trade but just didn't have the pieces.
 
saintfool said:
Larry Brown quits. I, for one, am shocked - again.
i think they're going to blow up that team. it was just a bad team with a coach who wore out his welcome. he akin to don nelson at this point in the league history. they'll gut the team. i can't believe they're really targeting someone like baron davis though. that just seems counter intuitive somehow.
To get Davis they would reportedly be trading Augustin, Diop's huge contract and Carroll's terrible contract. I think its clear at this point that Augustin is a solid backup but no more, and they would also dump two terrible contracts... its a risk, but even if Davis continues not to give a ####, they don't lose much.
 
Premier said:
The Magic didn't really trade for Hedo. They traded for Richardson and were forced to take Hedo in the deal. I think most know that he's past whatever prime that he had.
i think there is also something to SVG's belief that hedo fits their system. hedo was productive for them for a few years after all. they let him leave, sure, but he's not entirely a square peg for them in theory.
 
saintfool said:
Larry Brown quits. I, for one, am shocked - again.
i think they're going to blow up that team. it was just a bad team with a coach who wore out his welcome. he akin to don nelson at this point in the league history. they'll gut the team. i can't believe they're really targeting someone like baron davis though. that just seems counter intuitive somehow.
To get Davis they would reportedly be trading Augustin, Diop's huge contract and Carroll's terrible contract. I think its clear at this point that Augustin is a solid backup but no more, and they would also dump two terrible contracts... its a risk, but even if Davis continues not to give a ####, they don't lose much.
those bad contracts from charlotte have value themselves. those are the kinds of contracts that help teams broker deal for other players. they could be the 3rd team in a multiteam trade that helps make the contracts work and get a little something for their trouble. you don't give up those bargaining chips up for declining players, like baron davis, who have contracts no one should want to take on.
 
saintfool said:
Larry Brown quits. I, for one, am shocked - again.
i think they're going to blow up that team. it was just a bad team with a coach who wore out his welcome. he akin to don nelson at this point in the league history. they'll gut the team. i can't believe they're really targeting someone like baron davis though. that just seems counter intuitive somehow.
To get Davis they would reportedly be trading Augustin, Diop's huge contract and Carroll's terrible contract. I think its clear at this point that Augustin is a solid backup but no more, and they would also dump two terrible contracts... its a risk, but even if Davis continues not to give a ####, they don't lose much.
those bad contracts from charlotte have value themselves. those are the kinds of contracts that help teams broker deal for other players. they could be the 3rd team in a multiteam trade that helps make the contracts work and get a little something for their trouble. you don't give up those bargaining chips up for declining players, like baron davis, who have contracts no one should want to take on.
Exactly. All bad contracts eventually turn into ASSETS in the final 2 years of the deal so you could bail out a GM who made the same mistake, but this time you leverage a potential rotation player.
 
saintfool said:
Larry Brown quits. I, for one, am shocked - again.
i think they're going to blow up that team. it was just a bad team with a coach who wore out his welcome. he akin to don nelson at this point in the league history. they'll gut the team. i can't believe they're really targeting someone like baron davis though. that just seems counter intuitive somehow.
To get Davis they would reportedly be trading Augustin, Diop's huge contract and Carroll's terrible contract. I think its clear at this point that Augustin is a solid backup but no more, and they would also dump two terrible contracts... its a risk, but even if Davis continues not to give a ####, they don't lose much.
those bad contracts from charlotte have value themselves. those are the kinds of contracts that help teams broker deal for other players. they could be the 3rd team in a multiteam trade that helps make the contracts work and get a little something for their trouble. you don't give up those bargaining chips up for declining players, like baron davis, who have contracts no one should want to take on.
Exactly. All bad contracts eventually turn into ASSETS in the final 2 years of the deal so you could bail out a GM who made the same mistake, but this time you leverage a potential rotation player.
Well the same time Carroll and Diop's contracts become "assets" so will Davis'. Diop at 7 million dollars a year or Carroll at 4 million have 0 value until 2013 because they aren't even good enough to be a rotation player on a bad team. You guys are silly.
 
Man, this is what the Magic are looking for. Lot of weapons on display tonight...
Richardson is way underrated. The TNT guys were suggesting he should be the one that comes off the bench and Turkoglu & Arenas start. He would be the best 6th man in the league, and it wouldn't be close. He should be their #2 option IMO, unless Arenas really turns it around completely (which is a possibility IMO, but not likely).If Turkoglue doesn't show major improvement, I don't see how they can have him in the playoff rotation. Bass, JJ & even Ryan Anderson are as good or better than he is IMO. Not even really sure Turk is better than Quentin Richardson at this point. I understand they had to take him back to get Jason Richardson, but making him a de facto starter doesn't make sense to me.
 
If Turkoglue doesn't show major improvement, I don't see how they can have him in the playoff rotation. Bass, JJ & even Ryan Anderson are as good or better than he is IMO. Not even really sure Turk is better than Quentin Richardson at this point. I understand they had to take him back to get Jason Richardson, but making him a de facto starter doesn't make sense to me.
I was quite stunned to see anyone take Hedo in a trade. He's an end of bench talent now. And I agree he is no better than any of the aforementioned players. JMO he's only going to cost the Magic & get exposed (just because Dwight's back there shouldn't be a excuse that he can't guard & does little else). Just not something you want to learn in the playoffs that the guy isn't anywhere close to the player he was.I do agree with having Richardson/Arenas (one starting/one the 6th man), but agree they've got better options than Hedo to start.
 
I think people are being too harsh on Turkeyglue's play because of his contract. I agree that he is probably no longer a sure fire starter, but you could do much worse. He still shoots as well as he ever did, and hes doing pretty much everything on the offensive end as well as he did a few years ago with the big difference being that he isn't being asked to have the offense run through him for as much of the game. Defensively he has gone from below average to poor, but with Howard having his back, his D slipping isn't a huge deal. Once you get past the fact that he is making twice as much money as he deserves, he is still a pretty decent player and a HUGE upgrade from Q Rich, plus he is good insurance if Arenas or Nelson get hurt.

 
The main benefit that Turk serves this team is his ability to feed Dwight in the post. I know it sounds simple, but he does it better than anybody else has here.

 
Love what my Knicks are finally doing. Playing Gritty Ewingesque basketball, with tight wins. I like the close endings since it breeds a winning atmosphere when they can consistently close out opponents.

Gallo can disappear for 3 quarters but he really has a knack for 4th quarter points.

Love how right I was with my preseason assessment that the Knicks would be better then Rockets
The winning percentage of Knicks' opponents is currently the lowest in the league. It's early. And there is plenty of time for their defensive inadequacies to become glowingly apparent. I suppose the Knicks have a shot at being a .500 team but it isn't likely.
:bag: Look at their schedule from Dec 12 to Jan 12.

Sun, Dec 12 vs Denver - Win

Wed, Dec 15 vs Boston - Loss

Fri, Dec 17 vs Miami - Loss

Sat, Dec 18 @ Cleveland - Loss

Wed, Dec 22 vs Oklahoma City - Win

Sat, Dec 25 vs Chicago - Win

Tue, Dec 28 @ Miami

Thu, Dec 30 @ Orlando

Sun, Jan 2 vs Indiana

Tue, Jan 4 vs San Antonio

Fri, Jan 7 @ Phoenix

Sun, Jan 9 @ Los Angeles

Tue, Jan 11 @ Portland

Wed, Jan 12 @ Utah

They maybe get wins vs Indiana and Cleveland (but it is a back to back) and probably steal one somewhere else. What is the next easiest game in there? Playing Miami? @ Phoenix?
Knicks are 3-3 so far during this stretch.
 
Blazers/Warriors on ESPN. The two best uniforms in the NBA, in my estimation. Portland's reds are definitely the best.

Lakers yellow and Milwaukeee's kelly green are up there also.

 
Monta Ellis is some scorer. Just not sure he can ever play on a winning team since he would have to be the #2 guy, not sure he would be ok for that

 
Monta Ellis is some scorer. Just not sure he can ever play on a winning team since he would have to be the #2 guy, not sure he would be ok for that
Could be true. I've probably watched more Warriors games than anyone outside of the bay area in the past couple years and I'm always impressed.But it is true that he has to dominate the ball which is why I'm still confused about how he and Curry are supposed to work together. At least this year, Monta has passed to him a couple of times.
 

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