*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

[Cliff Clavin]

Now that Dirk has his ring, I really would love to see Nash get a real shot at getting one. His loyalty to the Suns is admirable, but there is no way they contend in Phoenix.

I'd love to see Nash go to Dallas and split time (or 70/30 Nash) with Kidd. If they can play Kidd and Barea together they can sure as hell put Kidd and Nash together.

 

[[scooter]]

Khan should take Williams and one of the sg's if one falls and go straight to bed happy. But I think he will try to get clever and khan it up.

They should not take Williams unless they've already traded Beasley (they're the same guy). HTH

If they think Williams is a bit better and more stable mentally than Beasley, why shouldn't they take him?edit: teams have been drafting talent over need since the draft was invented. Usually it's the smarter move.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Trading the #2 for Gasol might help Khan overtake Isiah.

 

[LHUCKS]

Khan should take Williams and one of the sg's if one falls and go straight to bed happy. But I think he will try to get clever and khan it up.

They should not take Williams unless they've already traded Beasley (they're the same guy). HTH

Beasley can't hold Williams' jockstrap.Williams is a significantly better shooter and easily a better athlete.Williams is also a good kid.This isn't close.

 

[LHUCKS]

Khan should take Williams and one of the sg's if one falls and go straight to bed happy.

take the only surefire allstar in this draft and be happy

 

[the moops]

Trading the #2 for Gasol might help Khan overtake Isiah.

Gasol for the #2 is a heck of a deal for Minnesota.

 

[Eephus]

Trading the #2 for Gasol might help Khan overtake Isiah.

Gasol for the #2 is a heck of a deal for Minnesota.

Gasol has 3yrs @ $19M remaining. The #2 rookie slot is around $3M/yr.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Khan should take Williams and one of the sg's if one falls and go straight to bed happy. But I think he will try to get clever and khan it up.

They should not take Williams unless they've already traded Beasley (they're the same guy). HTH

If they think Williams is a bit better and more stable mentally than Beasley, why shouldn't they take him?edit: teams have been drafting talent over need since the draft was invented. Usually it's the smarter move.

I don't think Williams is that much more talented and I'd take Kanter instead.

 

[Funkley]

Consider also that the Wolves don't have a pick in the 2012 draft.....a draft that looks to be much better than this one. I'm sure they are desperate to at minimum get out of the high lottery for fear that the one time they land the #1 pick they won't own it.

If they end up making a "poor" deal for a veteran like Gasol, that will be the reason.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Trading the #2 for Gasol might help Khan overtake Isiah.

Gasol for the #2 is a heck of a deal for Minnesota.

He might make them a borderline playoff team for a year or two. He is an awful fit in Minnesota. Awful.

 

[saintfool]

Beasley can't hold Williams' jockstrap.

Williams is a significantly better shooter and easily a better athlete.

Williams is also a good kid.

This isn't close.

beasley isn't a bad kid, imo. dude just needs a different coach than spoels and rambis. wasn't huggy his coach at K-State? that's the kind of coach i think he could thrive under. put him with a guy like Popovich and he'd be back to form.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Khan should take Williams and one of the sg's if one falls and go straight to bed happy. But I think he will try to get clever and khan it up.

They should not take Williams unless they've already traded Beasley (they're the same guy). HTH

Beasley can't hold Williams' jockstrap.Williams is a significantly better shooter and easily a better athlete.Williams is also a good kid.This isn't close.

Williams release is much slower than Beasley's and Williams shot a lot of 3s from the corner which won't happen as much for him in the NBA. That being said, Williams shot the 3 well in college at a whopping 56.8% on 74 shots. He was 59.5% overall from the field. Beasley shot 38% from 3 in college on 95 attempts and was 53.2% overall. Easily a better athlete? Their combine numbers are almost identical. Ht w/shoes and ReachBeasley 6'8.25" - 7'.025"Williams 6'8.75" - 7'1"Weight/Body FatBeasley 239, 7.7Williams 248, 10.8Vertical Standing/2 StepBeasley 30", 35"Williams 29", 34.5"Lane Agility, 3/4 Court SprintBeasley 11.06, 3.24Williams 11.03, 3.23Bench Press, Standing ReachBeasley 19 reps, 8'11"Williams 19 reps, 9'We get it, you love the Pac10, but there are a lot of factors here that indicate these guys are very similar ballplayers. Good kid might help, maybe a better work ethic, who knows? I'll be pulling for him if he ends up on the Wolves, but I don't think it's the right choice.Edit: to make Williams 6'8" instead of 7'8"

 

[got_nugs]

Now that Dirk has his ring, I really would love to see Nash get a real shot at getting one. His loyalty to the Suns is admirable, but there is no way they contend in Phoenix.

I'd love to see Nash go to Dallas and split time (or 70/30 Nash) with Kidd. If they can play Kidd and Barea together they can sure as hell put Kidd and Nash together.

I would also love Nash to get a ring, love his game. It's too early for me to promote him going to Dallas, though...it still hurts. Nash to Miami sounds nice. I think he's at least a little clutch, which we so desperately need.Of course it's not reasonable.

 

[the moops]

Trading the #2 for Gasol might help Khan overtake Isiah.

Gasol for the #2 is a heck of a deal for Minnesota.

Gasol has 3yrs @ $19M remaining. The #2 rookie slot is around $3M/yr.

OK.No big free agent is going to sign with MN for the next few years anyhow.Ricky Rubio, Veteran SG, Wesley Johnson, Kevin Love, Pau Gasol is a playoff team in 2 years.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Beasley can't hold Williams' jockstrap.

Williams is a significantly better shooter and easily a better athlete.

Williams is also a good kid.

This isn't close.

beasley isn't a bad kid, imo. dude just needs a different coach than spoels and rambis. wasn't huggy his coach at K-State? that's the kind of coach i think he could thrive under. put him with a guy like Popovich and he'd be back to form.

Beasley wasn't awful last year. He was solid..it's just tough for him to excel at the 3 spot and he's too small to play the 4 consistently.

 

[Funkley]

I like Beas.....if the Wolves take Kanter I'll be ok with it.

 

[Instinctive]

Trading the #2 for Gasol might help Khan overtake Isiah.

Gasol for the #2 is a heck of a deal for Minnesota.

Gasol has 3yrs @ $19M remaining. The #2 rookie slot is around $3M/yr.

OK.No big free agent is going to sign with MN for the next few years anyhow.Ricky Rubio, Veteran SG, Wesley Johnson, Kevin Love, Pau Gasol is a playoff team in 2 years.

Johnson is a SG. If they get a big SF (maybe a 6'8" or 6'9" guy with size) and draft Kanter at 2................or even if Beasley learns to play a little defense at SF...they could be really good I think.

 

[saintfool]

Beasley wasn't awful last year. He was solid..it's just tough for him to excel at the 3 spot and he's too small to play the 4 consistently.

That's part of the problem with Beaz. He was jerked around at Miami because Spoels wouldn't commit to a single position for him. He wasn't prepared for coming off the bench either, which was Spoels' decision because he could figure out how to use him. He played pretty well in Minnesota, I thought, as much because he was showing some maturity as anything. He played well in spite of the general ineptitude of Rambis. Get him on the right team and this kid could really shine.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Beasley wasn't awful last year. He was solid..it's just tough for him to excel at the 3 spot and he's too small to play the 4 consistently.

That's part of the problem with Beaz. He was jerked around at Miami because Spoels wouldn't commit to a single position for him. He wasn't prepared for coming off the bench either, which was Spoels' decision because he could figure out how to use him. He played pretty well in Minnesota, I thought, as much because he was showing some maturity as anything. He played well in spite of the general ineptitude of Rambis. Get him on the right team and this kid could really shine.

His offensive talent is obvious, but he's HORRIBLE on the other end.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

So if CLE takes Irving and MIN takes Kanter, would Utah draft for need (Knight) or BPA (Williams)? Williams falling to 4 would give me tah bonurz

 

[saintfool]

Beasley wasn't awful last year. He was solid..it's just tough for him to excel at the 3 spot and he's too small to play the 4 consistently.

That's part of the problem with Beaz. He was jerked around at Miami because Spoels wouldn't commit to a single position for him. He wasn't prepared for coming off the bench either, which was Spoels' decision because he could figure out how to use him. He played pretty well in Minnesota, I thought, as much because he was showing some maturity as anything. He played well in spite of the general ineptitude of Rambis. Get him on the right team and this kid could really shine.

His offensive talent is obvious, but he's HORRIBLE on the other end.

and...? this is the nba. it's not like he's going to get better with rambis or spoels as his coach.

 

[saintfool]

So if CLE takes Irving and MIN takes Kanter, would Utah draft for need (Knight) or BPA (Williams)? Williams falling to 4 would give me tah bonurz

they have depth at the frontline. they have harris in a caretaker role, i think.

 

[wadegarrett]

Cuban owning Perot Jr.

 

[Abraham]

So if CLE takes Irving and MIN takes Kanter, would Utah draft for need (Knight) or BPA (Williams)? Williams falling to 4 would give me tah bonurz

Denver would out Felton in a package and move up. Or San Antonio would put Parker in a package. No way Williams slides to four. None.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Beasley wasn't awful last year. He was solid..it's just tough for him to excel at the 3 spot and he's too small to play the 4 consistently.

That's part of the problem with Beaz. He was jerked around at Miami because Spoels wouldn't commit to a single position for him. He wasn't prepared for coming off the bench either, which was Spoels' decision because he could figure out how to use him. He played pretty well in Minnesota, I thought, as much because he was showing some maturity as anything. He played well in spite of the general ineptitude of Rambis. Get him on the right team and this kid could really shine.

His offensive talent is obvious, but he's HORRIBLE on the other end.

and...? this is the nba. it's not like he's going to get better with rambis or spoels as his coach.

I'm not making any judgments on Spoels or Rambis, but 90% of defense is effort. Some guys "get it" and become good defensive players, but some guys are who they are. I think Beasley may be one of those guys who is who he is.

 

[Funkley]

I dont think Williams gets past 2. Khan is just trying to bait a hook for the pick just in case someone wows him.

 

[biggamer3]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

 

[the moops]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

They have nothing to offer to a team to move from 4 up to 2.

 

[thecatch]

Khan should take Williams and one of the sg's if one falls and go straight to bed happy. But I think he will try to get clever and khan it up.

They should not take Williams unless they've already traded Beasley (they're the same guy). HTH

If they think Williams is a bit better and more stable mentally than Beasley, why shouldn't they take him?edit: teams have been drafting talent over need since the draft was invented. Usually it's the smarter move.

I don't think Williams is that much more talented and I'd take Kanter instead.

Williams is a much more natural fit at 4 than Beasley has proven to be. Williams has plenty of size to play 4 - this tweener business is overblown. Chad Ford has said the worst thing for Williams' career would be for him to try to pretend he's a true 3 when he's not and I think there's definitely something to be said for that.

 

[biggamer3]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

They have nothing to offer to a team to move from 4 up to 2.

but the 2 and 4 would be virtually the exact same pick for them since they know Utah will go Knight at 3.Cleveland can give up a 2nd rounder and a future first and Minny would almost be forced to accept it

 

[Bobcat10]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

They have nothing to offer to a team to move from 4 up to 2.

but the 2 and 4 would be virtually the exact same pick for them since they know Utah will go Knight at 3.Cleveland can give up a 2nd rounder and a future first and Minny would almost be forced to accept it

Maybe if that was the best offer MIN got for the 2/Irving.

 

[the moops]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

They have nothing to offer to a team to move from 4 up to 2.

but the 2 and 4 would be virtually the exact same pick for them since they know Utah will go Knight at 3.Cleveland can give up a 2nd rounder and a future first and Minny would almost be forced to accept it

Does Cleveland have some exclusive trading rights with Minnesota or something?

 

[wadegarrett]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

They have nothing to offer to a team to move from 4 up to 2.

if you mean other than their two 2nd round picks (32 and 54), their $14.5 million trade exception, and several of their players, then yes, you are correct

 

[the moops]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

They have nothing to offer to a team to move from 4 up to 2.

if you mean other than their two 2nd round picks (32 and 54), their $14.5 million trade exception, and several of their players, then yes, you are correct

I shouldn't have said nothing.But, their 2nd round picks are pretty worthless. The trade exception expires in July I believe. And the only player on the roster that has any real trade value is Hickson, who plays the same position as everyone else on the Wolves.

 

[biggamer3]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

They have nothing to offer to a team to move from 4 up to 2.

but the 2 and 4 would be virtually the exact same pick for them since they know Utah will go Knight at 3.Cleveland can give up a 2nd rounder and a future first and Minny would almost be forced to accept it

Does Cleveland have some exclusive trading rights with Minnesota or something?

I am talking in the event that Cleveland takes Williams at 1, essentially the #4 and #2 picks are the same to the Wolves since they dont want PG and anyone they would want at 2 would be there at 4.So they can trade for the Kings or some other teams pick but they arent getting the guy they would have wanted. At 4 they are getting the same guy and getting additional assets from ClevelandCleveland wont do this just for the fear that Utah might give up their 3 and 12 to Minny to get Irving

 

[biggamer3]

So if Irving ends up being CP3 does the Clippers saving 9M on Baron trade go down as one of worst deals ever?

They could have had Blake, Irving and Gordon all super young and growing together

 

[Captain Quinoa]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

They have nothing to offer to a team to move from 4 up to 2.

if you mean other than their two 2nd round picks (32 and 54), their $14.5 million trade exception, and several of their players, then yes, you are correct

I shouldn't have said nothing.But, their 2nd round picks are pretty worthless. The trade exception expires in July I believe. And the only player on the roster that has any real trade value is Hickson, who plays the same position as everyone else on the Wolves.

Varejao

 

[wadegarrett]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

They have nothing to offer to a team to move from 4 up to 2.

if you mean other than their two 2nd round picks (32 and 54), their $14.5 million trade exception, and several of their players, then yes, you are correct

I shouldn't have said nothing.But, their 2nd round picks are pretty worthless. The trade exception expires in July I believe. And the only player on the roster that has any real trade value is Hickson, who plays the same position as everyone else on the Wolves.

agree...but putting a package together, 3-team deal, etc. is not out of the question

 

[Abraham]

Utah would give the three and twelve in a heartbeat for Irving.

 

[wadegarrett]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

They have nothing to offer to a team to move from 4 up to 2.

if you mean other than their two 2nd round picks (32 and 54), their $14.5 million trade exception, and several of their players, then yes, you are correct

I shouldn't have said nothing.But, their 2nd round picks are pretty worthless. The trade exception expires in July I believe. And the only player on the roster that has any real trade value is Hickson, who plays the same position as everyone else on the Wolves.

Varejao

Sessions

 

[Abraham]

CNNSI had some rumors...

Kahn trying to get Bynum for the 2. No dice.

Raptors like Bismark at 5.

Knicks like Jimmer

Rockets like the USC Center

Markief is working out well and could go higher then marcus.

Of course none of this means anything.

 

[the moops]

lol at Williams falling to 4. He is going at 2 to either Minny or any team that trades for it. If Cleveland was risky they could take Derrick at 1 and force Minny to have to deal 2 since they wont want a PG. then they can deal the 4 and something else for the 2 and get irving

They have nothing to offer to a team to move from 4 up to 2.

if you mean other than their two 2nd round picks (32 and 54), their $14.5 million trade exception, and several of their players, then yes, you are correct

I shouldn't have said nothing.But, their 2nd round picks are pretty worthless. The trade exception expires in July I believe. And the only player on the roster that has any real trade value is Hickson, who plays the same position as everyone else on the Wolves.

Varejao

Sessions

Minny wont want Sessions. Tried that once.Varejao would be interesting. Forgot about him.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

So if Irving ends up being CP3 does the Clippers saving 9M on Baron trade go down as one of worst deals ever?

They could have had Blake, Irving and Gordon all super young and growing together

Considering the trade was made pre-lottery, it's not even close to being one of the worst deals ever imo.

 

[No. 16]

So if Irving ends up being CP3 does the Clippers saving 9M on Baron trade go down as one of worst deals ever?

They could have had Blake, Irving and Gordon all super young and growing together

Considering the trade was made pre-lottery, it's not even close to being one of the worst deals ever imo.

I thought it was a dumb trade then. Lottery picks for bad teams are what turns franchises around. You don't just trade them for cap relief. If you do you better be getting a heck player (Mo Williams is not).

 

[boubucarow]

Am I the only one that sees a lot more of Chauncey Billups in Irving? He looks like a 20-7 guy to me and the way he uses his body to create space in the lane reminds me of BIllups.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Am I the only one that sees a lot more of Chauncey Billups in Irving? He looks like a 20-7 guy to me and the way he uses his body to create space in the lane reminds me of BIllups.

I know this is not how you mean it, but the Cavs better hope not - i love Billups game now, but he was in no way prepared to be a PG when the Celts got him as the consolation prize in the Duncan lottery sweepstakes back '97.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

So if Irving ends up being CP3 does the Clippers saving 9M on Baron trade go down as one of worst deals ever?

They could have had Blake, Irving and Gordon all super young and growing together

Considering the trade was made pre-lottery, it's not even close to being one of the worst deals ever imo.

I thought it was a dumb trade then. Lottery picks for bad teams are what turns franchises around. You don't just trade them for cap relief. If you do you better be getting a heck player (Mo Williams is not).

The Clippers already have a strong young group of 5 for each position (Bledsoe-Gordon-Aminu-Griffin-Jordan), so they aren't really desperate for young talent to develop. If the Clippers pick ended up somewhere closer to where they finished during the season (they finished 8th worst, so say if the pick was between 5-11), then the trade looks no where near as bad as it does now considering how weak this draft is for top-end talent after the first 2 picks.

 

[the moops]

Which team would turn down the #4 and Verajao for the #2?

 

[Yo Mama]

Which team would turn down the #4 and Verajao for the #2?

Cleveland would then have no C and 2 PFs. Not saying they wouldn't do it, but they'd probably need to make some more moves to even things out or get another C.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Which team would turn down the #4 and Verajao for the #2?

Probably Cleveland. Maybe throw in NIKOLAPEKOVIC!!!!