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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

'Gr00vus said:
Kobe rolls for 43 in an L.A. summer league game.

How awesome would it be to have just been hanging out to watch the expected players play and then have Kobe show up?

Glad to see him take time out from his busy schedule of beating up church goers.
:goodposting: Awesome to see the G.O.A.T. showing up like this and giving real fans a taste.
rapists like to do that kind of thing. kind of like a dirty sanchez?
Topic for discussion: what do you all think would give Kobe more joy- hitting a game winner in a summer league game, or watching a teammate hit a game winner in an NBA playoff game?
 
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'Gr00vus said:
Kobe rolls for 43 in an L.A. summer league game.

How awesome would it be to have just been hanging out to watch the expected players play and then have Kobe show up?

Glad to see him take time out from his busy schedule of beating up church goers.
:goodposting: Awesome to see the G.O.A.T. showing up like this and giving real fans a taste.
rapists like to do that kind of thing. kind of like a dirty sanchez?
Topic for discussion: what do you all think would give Kobe more joy- hitting a game winner in a summer league game, or watching a teammate hit a game winner in an NBA playoff game?
Watching a teammate miss a game winner...
 
'Gr00vus said:
Kobe rolls for 43 in an L.A. summer league game.

How awesome would it be to have just been hanging out to watch the expected players play and then have Kobe show up?

Glad to see him take time out from his busy schedule of beating up church goers.
:goodposting: Awesome to see the G.O.A.T. showing up like this and giving real fans a taste.
rapists like to do that kind of thing. kind of like a dirty sanchez?
Topic for discussion: what do you all think would give Kobe more joy- hitting a game winner in a summer league game, or watching a teammate hit a game winner in an NBA playoff game?
Watching a teammate miss a game winner...
:goodposting:
 
'Gr00vus said:
Kobe rolls for 43 in an L.A. summer league game.

How awesome would it be to have just been hanging out to watch the expected players play and then have Kobe show up?

Glad to see him take time out from his busy schedule of beating up church goers.
:goodposting: Awesome to see the G.O.A.T. showing up like this and giving real fans a taste.
rapists like to do that kind of thing. kind of like a dirty sanchez?
Topic for discussion: what do you all think would give Kobe more joy- hitting a game winner in a summer league game, or watching a teammate hit a game winner in an NBA playoff game?
Watching a teammate miss a game winner...
:lmao:
 
Malcom Gladwell had an interesting take on the NBA lockout on Grantland last week.

The Boston Red Sox signed their first black player in 1959, a utility infielder named "Pumpsie" Green.1 This was 12 years after the Brooklyn Dodgers broke the color line with Jackie Robinson. No other team in baseball dragged its feet on integration like the Red Sox. It wasn't until 1965, in fact — 18 years after Robinson started at second base for the Dodgers — that Boston had its first full-time black player. Why?

The simple answer — that the Red Sox owner at the time, Tom Yawkey, was a racist — is not terribly satisfying. Lots of racists are happy to hire black people, particularly if they can exploit them as spectacularly as baseball owners exploited their players in the postwar years.2 There was a lot of money to be made by raiding the Negro Leagues in the 1940s. The talent pool was extraordinary: Jackie Robinson, Roy Campanella, Hank Aaron, Ernie Banks, and Willie Mays, among others. The Sox were well aware of this. They tried out Mays and Robinson — both of whom they could have used in the lean years of the 1950s, when the team was known as "Ted Williams and the Seven Dwarfs." In a recent academic paper, the economist Jonathan Lanning has also shown that almost without exception integration in the 1940s and 1950s had an immediate and significant positive impact on a team's attendance — even in cities where you might not think the fan base would be enthusiastic.3 Lanning calculates, in fact, that almost no team in baseball had as much to gain financially from bringing in black players as the Red Sox, particularly since they were losing money in the 1940s. Yawkey's bigotry left millions of dollars on the table.

Yawkey was not just a racist, in other words. He was a racist who put his hatred of black people ahead of his desire to make money. Economists have a special term they use to describe this kind of attitude. They would say that Yawkey owned the Red Sox not to maximize his financial benefits, but, rather, his psychic benefits. Psychic benefits describe the pleasure that someone gets from owning something — over and above economic returns — and clearly some part of the pleasure Yawkey got from the Red Sox came from not having to look at black people when he walked through the Fenway Park dugout. In discussions of pro sports, the role of psychic benefits doesn't get a lot of attention. But it should, because it is the key to understanding all kinds of behavior by sports owners — most recently the peculiar position taken by management in the NBA labor dispute.

The rationale for the NBA lockout, from the owner's perspective, goes something like this. Basketball is a business. Businesses are supposed to make money. And when profits are falling, as they are now for basketball teams, a business is obliged to cut costs — which in this case means the amount of money paid to players. In response, the players' association has said two things. First, basketball teams actually do make money. And second, if they don't, it's not the players' fault. When the two sides get together, this is what they fight about. But both arguments miss the point. The issue isn't how much money the business of basketball makes. The issue is that basketball isn't a business in the first place — and for things that aren't businesses how much money is, or isn't, made is largely irrelevant.

Basketball teams, of course, look like businesses. They have employees and customers and offices and a product, and they tend to be owned, in the manner of most American businesses, by rich white men. But scratch the surface and the similarities disappear. Pro sports teams don't operate in a free market, the way real businesses do. Their employees are 25 years old and make millions of dollars a year. Their customers are obsessively loyal and emotionally engaged in their fortunes to the point that — were the business in question, say, discount retailing or lawn products — it would be considered psychologically unhealthy. They get to control their labor through the draft in a way that would be the envy of other private sector owners, at least since the Civil War. And they are treated by governments with unmatched generosity. Congress gives professional baseball an antitrust exemption. Since 2000, there have been eight basketball stadiums either built or renovated for NBA teams at a cost of $2 billion — and $1.75 billion of that came from public funds.4 And did you know that under the federal tax code the NFL is classified as a nonprofit organization?5 Big genial Roger Goodell, he of the almost $4 billion in television contracts, makes like he's the United Way.

But most of all professional sports owners don't have to behave like businessmen. For every disciplined and rational operator like the Patriots' Robert Kraft or Mark Cuban, there is also someone like Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder. Snyder was a brilliant entrepreneur, who at the age of 36 sold Snyder Communications — the marketing company he built from scratch — for an estimated $2 billion. He has subsequently run the Redskins like a petulant 14-year-old fantasy owner. Snyder Communications was a business. The Redskins are a toy. The former he ran to solely maximize profit. The latter he runs for his psychic benefit — as a reward for all the years he spent being disciplined and rational. And it is one of the surreal qualities of professional sports that they are as welcoming and lucrative for those owners who chose to behave like 14-year-olds as they are of those owners who chose to behave like grown-ups.

The Financial Times recently interviewed Diego Della Valle, the chief executive of the Italian luxury goods manufacturer Tod's. Della Valle owns the celebrated Italian football club Fiorentina. "I ask if the decision to buy the club was made from the heart, or for business reasons," the Financial Times interviewer writes. Della Valle replies: "With football, business reasons don't exist." Exactly. Yawkey did not have "business reasons" with the Red Sox either. Why did he care that keeping the club lily white cost him millions of dollars? He inherited $40 million from his grandfather when he turned 30 in 1933 (which is roughly $700 million in today's money). He fell in love with baseball growing up in Detroit. Ty Cobb was one of his best friends. The Red Sox were his heart's desire, and in his case his heart's desire — so the story goes — included things like running out on the field during Jackie Robinson's tryout and yelling "Get those [expletive] off the field." In case you were wondering how this kind of thing goes over with the baseball establishment, Yawkey was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1980.6

The best illustration of psychic benefits is the art market. Art collectors buy paintings for two reasons. They are interested in the painting as an investment — the same way they would view buying stock in General Motors. And they are interested in the painting as a painting — as a beautiful object. In a recent paper in Economics Bulletin, the economists Erdal Atukeren and Aylin Seçkin used a variety of clever ways to figure out just how large the second psychic benefit is, and they put it at 28 percent.7 In other words, if you pay $100 million for a Van Gogh, $28 million of that is for the joy of looking at it every morning. If that seems like a lot, it shouldn't. There aren't many Van Goghs out there, and they are very beautiful. If you care passionately about art, paying that kind of premium makes perfect sense.

Pro sports teams are a lot like works of art. Forbes magazine annually estimates the value of every professional franchise, based on standard financial metrics like operating expenses, ticket sales, revenue, and physical assets like stadiums. When sports teams change hands, however, the actual sales price is invariably higher. Forbes valued the Detroit Pistons at $360 million. They just sold for $420 million. Forbes valued the Wizards at $322 million. They just sold for $551 million. Forbes said that the Warriors were worth $363 million. They just sold for $450 million. There are a number of reasons why the Forbes number is consistently too low. The simplest is that Forbes is evaluating franchises strictly as businesses. But they are being bought by people who care passionately about sports — and the $90 million premium that the Warriors' new owners were willing to pay represents the psychic benefit of owning a sports team. If that seems like a lot, it shouldn't. There aren't many NBA franchises out there, and they are very beautiful.

The big difference between art and sports, of course, is that art collectors are honest about psychic benefits. They do not wake up one day, pretend that looking at a Van Gogh leaves them cold, and demand a $27 million refund from their art dealer. But that is exactly what the NBA owners are doing. They are indulging in the fantasy that what they run are ordinary businesses — when they never were. And they are asking us to believe that these "businesses" lose money. But of course an owner is only losing money if he values the psychic benefits of owning an NBA franchise at zero — and if you value psychic benefits at zero, then you shouldn't own an NBA franchise in the first place. You should sell your "business" — at which is sure to be a healthy premium — to someone who actually likes basketball.
LINK.
 
Kobe has said he's willing to team up with LeBron and other high payed players to loan money to the lower salaried guys so they can stand strong facing the lockout.

Bank of Kobe. :moneybag: :thumbup:

 
2 NBA lockout questions for the FFA braintrust:

1) By the time (if) the loackout ends, will the nuggets have any players left or will they all be in China? Granted, they're all FAs (as far as I remember), but KMart, JR Smith, and Chandler all going over has to hurt a bit.

2) If the lockout lasts the whole season and 2011-2012 is essentially cancelled, what does that do for contracts? If a player is currently under contract for 1 more year are they still FAs going into 2012-2013 or does the contract get pushed into next year? Are contracts for "1 more year" or "through 6/30/2012"? Basically, if we lose the season this year is a team like the Celtics losing their last year with the "Big 3"?

Man, I miss the NBA and all the off-season / pre-season hype.

 
2 NBA lockout questions for the FFA braintrust:1) By the time (if) the loackout ends, will the nuggets have any players left or will they all be in China? Granted, they're all FAs (as far as I remember), but KMart, JR Smith, and Chandler all going over has to hurt a bit.2) If the lockout lasts the whole season and 2011-2012 is essentially cancelled, what does that do for contracts? If a player is currently under contract for 1 more year are they still FAs going into 2012-2013 or does the contract get pushed into next year? Are contracts for "1 more year" or "through 6/30/2012"? Basically, if we lose the season this year is a team like the Celtics losing their last year with the "Big 3"?Man, I miss the NBA and all the off-season / pre-season hype.
as i understand it, a contract ends when it is scheduled to end. Tim Duncan's, for example, end next season. If the lockout cancels the season, he's not getting paid and his contract expires at season end.
 
Malcolm Gladwell column about the Nets

The rich have gone from being grateful for what they have to pushing for everything they can get. They have mastered the arts of whining and predation, without regard to logic or shame. In the end, this is the lesson of the NBA lockout. A man buys a basketball team as insurance on a real estate project, flips the franchise to a Russian billionaire when he wins the deal, and then — as both parties happily count their winnings — what lesson are we asked to draw? The players are greedy.
 
2 NBA lockout questions for the FFA braintrust:1) By the time (if) the loackout ends, will the nuggets have any players left or will they all be in China? Granted, they're all FAs (as far as I remember), but KMart, JR Smith, and Chandler all going over has to hurt a bit.2) If the lockout lasts the whole season and 2011-2012 is essentially cancelled, what does that do for contracts? If a player is currently under contract for 1 more year are they still FAs going into 2012-2013 or does the contract get pushed into next year? Are contracts for "1 more year" or "through 6/30/2012"? Basically, if we lose the season this year is a team like the Celtics losing their last year with the "Big 3"?Man, I miss the NBA and all the off-season / pre-season hype.
as i understand it, a contract ends when it is scheduled to end. Tim Duncan's, for example, end next season. If the lockout cancels the season, he's not getting paid and his contract expires at season end.
:goodposting:Chauncey Billups is getting royally ####ed by the lockout. He was set to make $14.2M this year but probably won't see a dime of that and he'll be lucky to get that over the next 3 years after the lockout.
 
Malcolm Gladwell column about the Nets

The rich have gone from being grateful for what they have to pushing for everything they can get. They have mastered the arts of whining and predation, without regard to logic or shame. In the end, this is the lesson of the NBA lockout. A man buys a basketball team as insurance on a real estate project, flips the franchise to a Russian billionaire when he wins the deal, and then — as both parties happily count their winnings — what lesson are we asked to draw? The players are greedy.
Pretty artful takedown of the owners - well, at least of one franchise - by Gladwell.
 
Pretty artful takedown of the owners - well, at least of one franchise - by Gladwell.
I'm a big fan of Gladwell. The biggest takeaway for me is that sports franchises really aren't purchased for operating profits. Ego, appreciation in value and ancillary benefits to related businesses are what drives the value. I do think that the NBA salary structure needs fixing but I also believe the owners have gotten themselves into this situation. They spent decades giving away bad contracts and marketing the star players at the expense of the team and now they want the players to bail them out.
 
So....which NCAA mens teams will be worth watching this year?
Prospect Wise? Expected Lottery Picks in boldUNC - Harrison Barnes, James McAdoo, John Henson, Tyler Zeller, Kendall Marshall

UConn - Andre Drummond, Jeremy Lamb

Kentucky - Anthony Davis, Marquis Teague, Doron Lamb, Michael Gilchrist, Terrence Jones

Baylor - Perry Jones, Quincy Miller, Quincy Acy

Ohio State - Jared Sullinger, William Buford

Florida - Brad Beal

Texas A&M - Kris Middleton

Washington - Terrence Ross

 
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I don't know if anybody has been paying any attention to ESPN's rank of every NBA player, but holy #### are they awful. I would expect nothing less from ESPN, but still...

 
So....which NCAA mens teams will be worth watching this year?
Prospect Wise? Expected Lottery Picks in boldUNC - Harrison Barnes, James McAdoo, John Henson, Tyler Zeller, Kendall Marshall

UConn - Andre Drummond, Jeremy Lamb

Kentucky - Anthony Davis, Marquis Teague, Doron Lamb, Michael Gilchrist, Terrence Jones

Baylor - Perry Jones, Quincy Miller, Quincy Acy

Ohio State - Jared Sullinger, William Buford

Florida - Brad Beal

Texas A&M - Kris Middleton

Washington - Terrence Ross
Pretty much. Only surefire lottery pick that's missing from this list is Austin Rivers at Duke, but the family has money (he's Doc's kid) and therefore I think more likely to stay at school an extra year.From an individual standpoint the stories are Sullinger and Barnes. I can't remember the last time a surefire Top 5 pick returned to school, let alone two, and both playing for teams that are considered national title contenders.

Groovus, UCLA is clawing its way back to relevance if you're looking for something local to entertain you during the lockout. Or there's always room on the UNC bandwagon. Mitch Kupchak approves.

 
So....which NCAA mens teams will be worth watching this year?
Prospect Wise? Expected Lottery Picks in boldUNC - Harrison Barnes, James McAdoo, John Henson, Tyler Zeller, Kendall Marshall

UConn - Andre Drummond, Jeremy Lamb

Kentucky - Anthony Davis, Marquis Teague, Doron Lamb, Michael Gilchrist, Terrence Jones

Baylor - Perry Jones, Quincy Miller, Quincy Acy

Ohio State - Jared Sullinger, William Buford

Florida - Brad Beal

Texas A&M - Kris Middleton

Washington - Terrence Ross
Pretty much. Only surefire lottery pick that's missing from this list is Austin Rivers at Duke, but the family has money (he's Doc's kid) and therefore I think more likely to stay at school an extra year.From an individual standpoint the stories are Sullinger and Barnes. I can't remember the last time a surefire Top 5 pick returned to school, let alone two, and both playing for teams that are considered national title contenders.

Groovus, UCLA is clawing its way back to relevance if you're looking for something local to entertain you during the lockout. Or there's always room on the UNC bandwagon. Mitch Kupchak approves.
Never has a surefire top 5 pick had the opportunity to make more money from boosters than from being drafted.
 
So....which NCAA mens teams will be worth watching this year?
Prospect Wise? Expected Lottery Picks in boldUNC - Harrison Barnes, James McAdoo, John Henson, Tyler Zeller, Kendall Marshall

UConn - Andre Drummond, Jeremy Lamb

Kentucky - Anthony Davis, Marquis Teague, Doron Lamb, Michael Gilchrist, Terrence Jones

Baylor - Perry Jones, Quincy Miller, Quincy Acy

Ohio State - Jared Sullinger, William Buford

Florida - Brad Beal

Texas A&M - Kris Middleton

Washington - Terrence Ross
Pretty much. Only surefire lottery pick that's missing from this list is Austin Rivers at Duke, but the family has money (he's Doc's kid) and therefore I think more likely to stay at school an extra year.From an individual standpoint the stories are Sullinger and Barnes. I can't remember the last time a surefire Top 5 pick returned to school, let alone two, and both playing for teams that are considered national title contenders.

Groovus, UCLA is clawing its way back to relevance if you're looking for something local to entertain you during the lockout. Or there's always room on the UNC bandwagon. Mitch Kupchak approves.
Not sure how I missed Rivers. Maybe I do hate Duke.
 
So....which NCAA mens teams will be worth watching this year?
Prospect Wise? Expected Lottery Picks in boldUNC - Harrison Barnes, James McAdoo, John Henson, Tyler Zeller, Kendall Marshall

UConn - Andre Drummond, Jeremy Lamb

Kentucky - Anthony Davis, Marquis Teague, Doron Lamb, Michael Gilchrist, Terrence Jones

Baylor - Perry Jones, Quincy Miller, Quincy Acy

Ohio State - Jared Sullinger, William Buford

Florida - Brad Beal

Texas A&M - Kris Middleton

Washington - Terrence Ross
Pretty much. Only surefire lottery pick that's missing from this list is Austin Rivers at Duke, but the family has money (he's Doc's kid) and therefore I think more likely to stay at school an extra year.From an individual standpoint the stories are Sullinger and Barnes. I can't remember the last time a surefire Top 5 pick returned to school, let alone two, and both playing for teams that are considered national title contenders.

Groovus, UCLA is clawing its way back to relevance if you're looking for something local to entertain you during the lockout. Or there's always room on the UNC bandwagon. Mitch Kupchak approves.
Never has a surefire top 5 pick had the opportunity to make more money from boosters than from being drafted.
Yeah, I think the reason they came back is pretty obvious, but that doesn't mean it's less great. Can't really understand why other guys declared. The one that left me totally :confused: was Brandon Knight. He's a 4.0 student and would have been playing for a ridiculously good Kentucky team, instead he's gonna spend the next few months waiting around for a chance to move to Detroit.
 
So, is there going to be basketball this season?
Hopefully just college. I would like to guarantee the Cavs in a top 5 spot again next June if they lotterize the order. And if they don't do a lottery, they'll be locked in at 2. If there is a season, I think there is a very very small chance it starts before January.
 
Groovus, UCLA is clawing its way back to relevance if you're looking for something local to entertain you during the lockout.
It'll probably come to this. I've unclosely followed UCLA in my adulthood (was a big fan before they didn't accept me as a student :hot: ), and they're pretty underwhelming right now. Howland's system isn't exactly loved by the top tier talent guys, plus they really do try to stick to those inconvenient academic standards, so they end up with second (or worse) tier talent guys who don't always seem to have the discipline to make Howland's system work.ETA: I'm sure GDogg will be along shortly to tell me the 1001 ways I'm wrong about modern day UCLA basketball. Take his word over mine when it comes to this - like I said it's just the very distanced view I have of the program.
 
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'Bobcat10 said:
'Christo said:
So, is there going to be basketball this season?
Hopefully just college. I would like to guarantee the Cavs in a top 5 spot again next June if they lotterize the order. And if they don't do a lottery, they'll be locked in at 2. If there is a season, I think there is a very very small chance it starts before January.
When hockey missed a year, they did a lottery with the whole league that was based off last 3 years of results which if the NBA did, would hurt the Cavs chances of a top 5 pick since they had success with LeBron for 2 of those years. I just can't imagine there wouldn't be a huge fit by teams that 1 crappy season equals 2 top picks. If a whole season if missed, I'd suspect there is a low chance they take the 10-11 results and do them straight up or a lottery off them again. Just guessing there are quite a lot of teams that would have a problem with assuming Cleveland would add the #1 pick and #4 pick and would still be the second worst team.
 
'Gr00vus said:
'TobiasFunke said:
Groovus, UCLA is clawing its way back to relevance if you're looking for something local to entertain you during the lockout.
It'll probably come to this. I've unclosely followed UCLA in my adulthood (was a big fan before they didn't accept me as a student :hot: ), and they're pretty underwhelming right now. Howland's system isn't exactly loved by the top tier talent guys, plus they really do try to stick to those inconvenient academic standards, so they end up with second (or worse) tier talent guys who don't always seem to have the discipline to make Howland's system work.ETA: I'm sure GDogg will be along shortly to tell me the 1001 ways I'm wrong about modern day UCLA basketball. Take his word over mine when it comes to this - like I said it's just the very distanced view I have of the program.
Yeah, the big story these days for UCLA is their high school class of 2012 recruiting class. Article. Hopefully the NBA will be back long before those guys take the court for a college team.
 
'Gr00vus said:
'TobiasFunke said:
Groovus, UCLA is clawing its way back to relevance if you're looking for something local to entertain you during the lockout.
It'll probably come to this. I've unclosely followed UCLA in my adulthood (was a big fan before they didn't accept me as a student :hot: ), and they're pretty underwhelming right now. Howland's system isn't exactly loved by the top tier talent guys, plus they really do try to stick to those inconvenient academic standards, so they end up with second (or worse) tier talent guys who don't always seem to have the discipline to make Howland's system work.ETA: I'm sure GDogg will be along shortly to tell me the 1001 ways I'm wrong about modern day UCLA basketball. Take his word over mine when it comes to this - like I said it's just the very distanced view I have of the program.
Yeah, the big story these days for UCLA is their high school class of 2012 recruiting class. Article. Hopefully the NBA will be back long before those guys take the court for a college team.
If they're any good they'll be one and done. Most likely they'll disappoint and stick around for a few years leaving us to wonder if they'll ever reach their potential. Besides that, UCLA just doesn't seem to get top quality big men, though Josh Smith has done o.k. so far - I think he'd be a lot better if he was less of a :porked: .
 
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'Bobcat10 said:
'Christo said:
So, is there going to be basketball this season?
Hopefully just college. I would like to guarantee the Cavs in a top 5 spot again next June if they lotterize the order. And if they don't do a lottery, they'll be locked in at 2. If there is a season, I think there is a very very small chance it starts before January.
When hockey missed a year, they did a lottery with the whole league that was based off last 3 years of results which if the NBA did, would hurt the Cavs chances of a top 5 pick since they had success with LeBron for 2 of those years. I just can't imagine there wouldn't be a huge fit by teams that 1 crappy season equals 2 top picks. If a whole season if missed, I'd suspect there is a low chance they take the 10-11 results and do them straight up or a lottery off them again. Just guessing there are quite a lot of teams that would have a problem with assuming Cleveland would add the #1 pick and #4 pick and would still be the second worst team.
I suppose that's possible but I think it's unlikely it's opened up to the full league. I'm sure quite a few teams would have a problem with the Bulls or the Heat getting a top pick as well because of some full league lottery system.
 
'Bobcat10 said:
'Christo said:
So, is there going to be basketball this season?
Hopefully just college. I would like to guarantee the Cavs in a top 5 spot again next June if they lotterize the order. And if they don't do a lottery, they'll be locked in at 2. If there is a season, I think there is a very very small chance it starts before January.
When hockey missed a year, they did a lottery with the whole league that was based off last 3 years of results which if the NBA did, would hurt the Cavs chances of a top 5 pick since they had success with LeBron for 2 of those years. I just can't imagine there wouldn't be a huge fit by teams that 1 crappy season equals 2 top picks. If a whole season if missed, I'd suspect there is a low chance they take the 10-11 results and do them straight up or a lottery off them again. Just guessing there are quite a lot of teams that would have a problem with assuming Cleveland would add the #1 pick and #4 pick and would still be the second worst team.
I suppose that's possible but I think it's unlikely it's opened up to the full league. I'm sure quite a few teams would have a problem with the Bulls or the Heat getting a top pick as well because of some full league lottery system.
It would probably be a weighted lottery as they do every year except using the past 3 seasons records. The best teams getting slotted 30-16. Teams 15-1 getting into the lottery and only able to slide down so many slots. Cavs would be the only team to get screwed on this because of the LeBron years (unless they weight the most recent season the most).
 
It would probably be a weighted lottery as they do every year except using the past 3 seasons records. The best teams getting slotted 30-16. Teams 15-1 getting into the lottery and only able to slide down so many slots. Cavs would be the only team to get screwed on this because of the LeBron years (unless they weight the most recent season the most).
Meh, they lucked out by winning the lottery this year with horrible odds and its sounding possible that they may be able to dump Baron's contract. If you would have asked the management if they would trade Williams and their 2012 pick for the number one overall pick in 2011 and nothing else, they would have been overjoyed to say yes. This lockout thing is going to workout for them as well as nearly anybody else in the league, regardless of their 2012 pick.
 
It would probably be a weighted lottery as they do every year except using the past 3 seasons records. The best teams getting slotted 30-16. Teams 15-1 getting into the lottery and only able to slide down so many slots. Cavs would be the only team to get screwed on this because of the LeBron years (unless they weight the most recent season the most).
Meh, they lucked out by winning the lottery this year with horrible odds and its sounding possible that they may be able to dump Baron's contract. If you would have asked the management if they would trade Williams and their 2012 pick for the number one overall pick in 2011 and nothing else, they would have been overjoyed to say yes. This lockout thing is going to workout for them as well as nearly anybody else in the league, regardless of their 2012 pick.
I wasn't factoring any of that in. Their level of play based on a 3 year assessment is no where near their actual level. No other team in the league would have such a dramatic misrepresentation.
 
It would probably be a weighted lottery as they do every year except using the past 3 seasons records. The best teams getting slotted 30-16. Teams 15-1 getting into the lottery and only able to slide down so many slots. Cavs would be the only team to get screwed on this because of the LeBron years (unless they weight the most recent season the most).
Meh, they lucked out by winning the lottery this year with horrible odds and its sounding possible that they may be able to dump Baron's contract. If you would have asked the management if they would trade Williams and their 2012 pick for the number one overall pick in 2011 and nothing else, they would have been overjoyed to say yes. This lockout thing is going to workout for them as well as nearly anybody else in the league, regardless of their 2012 pick.
Too bad that's not reality.
 
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'Bobcat10 said:
'Christo said:
So, is there going to be basketball this season?
Hopefully just college. I would like to guarantee the Cavs in a top 5 spot again next June if they lotterize the order. And if they don't do a lottery, they'll be locked in at 2. If there is a season, I think there is a very very small chance it starts before January.
When hockey missed a year, they did a lottery with the whole league that was based off last 3 years of results which if the NBA did, would hurt the Cavs chances of a top 5 pick since they had success with LeBron for 2 of those years. I just can't imagine there wouldn't be a huge fit by teams that 1 crappy season equals 2 top picks. If a whole season if missed, I'd suspect there is a low chance they take the 10-11 results and do them straight up or a lottery off them again. Just guessing there are quite a lot of teams that would have a problem with assuming Cleveland would add the #1 pick and #4 pick and would still be the second worst team.
I suppose that's possible but I think it's unlikely it's opened up to the full league. I'm sure quite a few teams would have a problem with the Bulls or the Heat getting a top pick as well because of some full league lottery system.
It would probably be a weighted lottery as they do every year except using the past 3 seasons records. The best teams getting slotted 30-16. Teams 15-1 getting into the lottery and only able to slide down so many slots. Cavs would be the only team to get screwed on this because of the LeBron years (unless they weight the most recent season the most).
Still think teams slotted 16-30 make a fuss and imo, they would have a legit arguement. In a normal year, you either miss the playoffs and get a chance to hit the lottery to pick the next big superstar or you make the playoffs and get the chance to win the championship. By slotting teams into 16-30, you are telling them they can't hit the big superstar yet they also didn't get to win a championship so essentially their championship window was closed by a year. Do you think that will sit well especially with say Boston, Lakers, Dallas? And why would it even be fair? No one got the shot at the title so everyone should get the shot at the next big star. Obviously a shot in a weighted system like normal but losing a year in a championship window should be worth something. No way is it worth nothing. No chance at a championship should mean everyone gets some sort of shot at the lottery. Personally I don't want to see someone like the Heat or Bulls get the top pick but I could live with it if everyone gets a shot and I really would think it would suck for them and their fans that they couldn't win the title or the lottery. Every team should get a chance at one or the other and if a year is lost, obviously that to me means everyone gets a shot at the lottery. Only seems fair.
 
'Bobcat10 said:
'Christo said:
So, is there going to be basketball this season?
Hopefully just college. I would like to guarantee the Cavs in a top 5 spot again next June if they lotterize the order. And if they don't do a lottery, they'll be locked in at 2. If there is a season, I think there is a very very small chance it starts before January.
When hockey missed a year, they did a lottery with the whole league that was based off last 3 years of results which if the NBA did, would hurt the Cavs chances of a top 5 pick since they had success with LeBron for 2 of those years. I just can't imagine there wouldn't be a huge fit by teams that 1 crappy season equals 2 top picks. If a whole season if missed, I'd suspect there is a low chance they take the 10-11 results and do them straight up or a lottery off them again. Just guessing there are quite a lot of teams that would have a problem with assuming Cleveland would add the #1 pick and #4 pick and would still be the second worst team.
I suppose that's possible but I think it's unlikely it's opened up to the full league. I'm sure quite a few teams would have a problem with the Bulls or the Heat getting a top pick as well because of some full league lottery system.
It would probably be a weighted lottery as they do every year except using the past 3 seasons records. The best teams getting slotted 30-16. Teams 15-1 getting into the lottery and only able to slide down so many slots. Cavs would be the only team to get screwed on this because of the LeBron years (unless they weight the most recent season the most).
Still think teams slotted 16-30 make a fuss and imo, they would have a legit arguement. In a normal year, you either miss the playoffs and get a chance to hit the lottery to pick the next big superstar or you make the playoffs and get the chance to win the championship. By slotting teams into 16-30, you are telling them they can't hit the big superstar yet they also didn't get to win a championship so essentially their championship window was closed by a year. Do you think that will sit well especially with say Boston, Lakers, Dallas? And why would it even be fair? No one got the shot at the title so everyone should get the shot at the next big star. Obviously a shot in a weighted system like normal but losing a year in a championship window should be worth something. No way is it worth nothing. No chance at a championship should mean everyone gets some sort of shot at the lottery. Personally I don't want to see someone like the Heat or Bulls get the top pick but I could live with it if everyone gets a shot and I really would think it would suck for them and their fans that they couldn't win the title or the lottery. Every team should get a chance at one or the other and if a year is lost, obviously that to me means everyone gets a shot at the lottery. Only seems fair.
Giving the 16-30 team ridiculously slim odds wouldn't be the worst thing. I agree that I'd hate to see Bos/LA/Dal/Mia get a high pick.
 
'Bobcat10 said:
'Christo said:
So, is there going to be basketball this season?
Hopefully just college. I would like to guarantee the Cavs in a top 5 spot again next June if they lotterize the order. And if they don't do a lottery, they'll be locked in at 2. If there is a season, I think there is a very very small chance it starts before January.
When hockey missed a year, they did a lottery with the whole league that was based off last 3 years of results which if the NBA did, would hurt the Cavs chances of a top 5 pick since they had success with LeBron for 2 of those years. I just can't imagine there wouldn't be a huge fit by teams that 1 crappy season equals 2 top picks. If a whole season if missed, I'd suspect there is a low chance they take the 10-11 results and do them straight up or a lottery off them again. Just guessing there are quite a lot of teams that would have a problem with assuming Cleveland would add the #1 pick and #4 pick and would still be the second worst team.
I suppose that's possible but I think it's unlikely it's opened up to the full league. I'm sure quite a few teams would have a problem with the Bulls or the Heat getting a top pick as well because of some full league lottery system.
It would probably be a weighted lottery as they do every year except using the past 3 seasons records. The best teams getting slotted 30-16. Teams 15-1 getting into the lottery and only able to slide down so many slots. Cavs would be the only team to get screwed on this because of the LeBron years (unless they weight the most recent season the most).
Still think teams slotted 16-30 make a fuss and imo, they would have a legit arguement. In a normal year, you either miss the playoffs and get a chance to hit the lottery to pick the next big superstar or you make the playoffs and get the chance to win the championship. By slotting teams into 16-30, you are telling them they can't hit the big superstar yet they also didn't get to win a championship so essentially their championship window was closed by a year. Do you think that will sit well especially with say Boston, Lakers, Dallas? And why would it even be fair? No one got the shot at the title so everyone should get the shot at the next big star. Obviously a shot in a weighted system like normal but losing a year in a championship window should be worth something. No way is it worth nothing. No chance at a championship should mean everyone gets some sort of shot at the lottery. Personally I don't want to see someone like the Heat or Bulls get the top pick but I could live with it if everyone gets a shot and I really would think it would suck for them and their fans that they couldn't win the title or the lottery. Every team should get a chance at one or the other and if a year is lost, obviously that to me means everyone gets a shot at the lottery. Only seems fair.
Giving the 16-30 team ridiculously slim odds wouldn't be the worst thing. I agree that I'd hate to see Bos/LA/Dal/Mia get a high pick.
I'd love it if Dallas got a high pick. We need some damn youth.
 
I know it's not something that can be put together in months but these labor deals are 10 years long. How does Billy Hunter not put together a contingency plan with major colleges to use their arena's in order for the Player's Assocciation to start their own league. At least have the threat.

Lakers could where Bruins gear and play at Pauly. Clippers where Trojans gear and play at wherever the Trojans play. The arena's are there. Why wouldn't UCLA want to sellout Pauley for 41 more nights a year?

Every NBA team has a local major university that could accomodate them. If I was Hunter I'd say if we don't have a deal the year before the contract runs out we are going to keep the same rosters and play the next season out within our own league.

Doesn't seem like a monumental task considering these colleges will do anything for a buck. Just the threat of this would be huge leverage. Thinking girl's volleyball could get moved to the afternoon.

 
So, is there going to be basketball this season?
Highly doubtful. I'd set the odds of having a full season at about 2% and a half season at about 15%.
Can I get these odds in a bet.Ridiculous.
I'll take action on this as well.
2% on a full season is pretty optimistic at this point. If by half season you mean over 40.5 games, 15 % might be a tad low but not much.
 

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