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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (4 Viewers)

If the owners didnt like this deal they should have used the lockout to settle more than just their wallets! This was a problem in the past and it still remains - they could have addressed it in some way but failed to do so....every one of those bozos should look in the mirror....

 
'Tom Hagen said:
'Sea Duck said:
'Tom Hagen said:
I'm confused, is it in the best interests of the Hornets to let Paul walk with no compensation after this season. That really seemed to work for Cleveland.
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What's best for the Hornets is not the same as what's best for the owners of the Hornets. In fact, it's quite the opposite in this case.
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And that's not a conflict of interest? I'm a Sixers fan so I have no vested interest in any of this. I just don't like the idea that the other owners can pick and choose which trades are allowed. It's like being in a fantasy league where other owners can veto trades they don't like.
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I think pretty much everyone in the world agrees that it is a conflict of interest. (Except David Stern and ~28 of the NBA owners.)
 
Anyone else think this is the owners "last word" on the lockout, saying "we run the show fellas"

Re Houston - they weren't going to challenge with the current team so they wanted a change. If they gave up Martin and scola last year for gasol it would be seen as a good deal. His poor playoffs have clouded peoples judgement about the guy. He's the best center in the west and second best in the league.

 
I feel like all the people talking about the veto like it's something that can be done for all deals are failing to realize that there aren't 29 owners owning every team...just the one. If 15 of the Hornets owners constitute a majority, then they get to decide. They OWN THE TEAM...pretty simple.

 
'Abraham said:
Anyone else think this is the owners "last word" on the lockout, saying "we run the show fellas"

Re Houston - they weren't going to challenge with the current team so they wanted a change. If they gave up Martin and scola last year for gasol it would be seen as a good deal. His poor playoffs have clouded peoples judgement about the guy. He's the best center in the west and secondthird best in the league.
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Horford
 
“I guess that means I’m a Laker if the trade didn’t go through,” a somber Odom said in a phone interview with The Times. “I don’t know what to do for the Lakers. I’m even weirded out by the league doing what they did. I don’t know what to do.”Odom said he thought it was “a lie” when he was first told about the trade to New Orleans.“And then it doesn’t go through,” Odom said. “Oh, lord. I don’t know what I’m going to do. I’ll pray about it.”The Lakers open training camp Friday at their facility in El Segundo.“Maybe I’ll see you there tomorrow [at practice],” Odom said. “But I doubt it. You don’t want to go to no place you’re not wanted. I’ll try to give them what they want as much as possible.”Odom also felt bad for Gasol.“Imagine how Pau feels,” Odom said. “Pau came to the Lakers and played here for four years, went to the Finals and lost, won two NBA championships and then got swept [by the Dallas Mavericks this year]. Wow! Imagine how he must feel.“Man, I’m just in total disbelief about all of this,” Odom continued. “They don’t want my services, for whatever reason. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. I was proud to be a Laker, so I’ll try to help them in the process as much as possible."
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Worst case scenario.
 
Boohoo.

Players get traded all the time. They also have little issue with leaving via free agency whenever they get the chance. Stop whining about it.

 
Was the trade ever "official pending physicals" anyway? If the nba owns the hornets isnt it up to them to accept the offer from other teams? Who is negotiating for the hornets with other teams?

 
Interesting look back in history:

Phil Jackson disses Carl Landry trade

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Arash Markazi

ESPNLosAngeles.com

LOS ANGELES -- Lakers coach Phil Jackson and Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban don't often see eye-to-eye but Jackson joined Cuban on Friday in lambasting the NBA for allowing the league-owned New Orleans Hornets to complete a trade with the Sacramento Kings in which the financially struggling Hornets absorbed salary and sent an undisclosed amount of cash to the Kings.

The Hornets sent guard Marcus Thornton, who is earning $762,195, plus cash to the Kings for forward Carl Landry, who is earning $3 million. The Hornets, who are over the salary cap, were able to fit Landry into a trade exception.

"I want to know who is making that trade and how they can take on that salary," Jackson said. "The owners have to take on that extra salary. What's going on? And then how did the thing work out with Sacramento? Those are things that seem to me manipulations that I'm not quite comfortable with."

The difference in salary is $2.24 million, of which the Hornets will be responsible for the prorated amount for the remainder of the season.

Jackson was unaware of Cuban's stance when he made his comments and smiled when he was told his thoughts were in line with Cuban's.
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http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=6160334&type=story
 
John Hollinger is really showing how much he hates the Lakers in his latest article. He is irate that the trade got vetoed because he said the Hornets fleeced the Lakers.

No, the widely suspected reason that I'm only writing about an imaginary trade instead of a real one is that the league's owners were so irate over the agreed-to deal to send Paul to the Lakers that they implored commissioner David Stern to block it & apparently, because they were so focused on the idea of another shiny object going to the Lakers that they didn't really look at what was happening. meaning the Lakers were looking at an opening night frontcourt of Derrick Caracter and Luke Walton. Yes, this was offset with a monumental upgrade at point guard, but look at the big picture. Pau-for-Paul is pretty much an even swap. Last season they had virtually identical marks in PER (23.33 for Gasol and 23.76 for Paul) and Estimated Wins Added (17.9 and 18.3). Yes, Gasol is five years older, but he also has a much better injury history. Additionally, bigs age much better than small guards, primarily because it doesn't make them any shorter. Plus, I would argue that Gasol is a better fit in L.A. than Paul. For starters, Kobe Bryant and Paul have only one ball to share on the perimeter. But more importantly, Paul is a pick-and-roll maestro who thrives when surrounded by spot-up shooters, pick-and-pop big men and a finisher who can roll to the rim. This isn't Kobe, who struggles as a spot-up shooter, and it isn't Bynum, who likes to catch and hold in the post. In fact, the only four Lakers who really fit that style are Gasol and Odom, who were getting shipped off, and Derek Fisher and Steve Blake, whom Paul would have replaced. All of that makes me queasy from L.A's end about Pau-for-Paul straight up. Throwing in Odom, when the team has no depth and little means to replace him, tilts it heavily in the Hornets' favor. The Lakers would have had an $8.9 million trade exception, but with no meaningful assets (and I mean NONE) to put in a trade, they were going to have a big problem using it to get anybody good. The irony of all this, in other words, is that the owners were so upset about the Lakers potentially getting Howard, that they nixed a trade that would have virtually killed any chance of that happening.
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I just read Hollinger's article. Seems pretty fair to me. Where is he "irate"?

 
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As a rockets fan I'm depressed that 4 years ago we had 2 of the top 10 players in the league and now we have 14 "decent" pieces but can't get a single star because they all want to play in New York or LA. Houston is a pit but it's the 4th largest city in the country (IIRC) and has a very diverse population. :wall:

 
'Abraham said:
As a rockets fan I'm depressed that 4 years ago we had 2 of the top 10 players in the league and now we have 14 "decent" pieces but can't get a single star because they all want to play in New York or LA. Houston is a pit but it's the 4th largest city in the country (IIRC) and has a very diverse population. :wall:
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As a Celtics fan I have very little reason to complain and really no leg to stand on here but I am understanding of the position. Most of the talk radio analysis this week has been centered on that by next year the Celtics will be a team of basically Rondo and Pierce. Both good players but not enough to win a championship. The belief is that while Boston is a storied franchise, it is not a high priority FA destination. It doesn't have the party atmosphere of Miami, the NY mystique or the LA glamour. So most people have been saying the only realistic chance for even a big market team like the Celtics to compete for championships is to be able to trade for a Chris Paul and then hopefully somehow convince him to stay and then lure another big FA to come. Otherwise Boston will just not get any big FAs, they will get 2nd tier guys but as it stands now if you aren't Miami, NY or LA, you are attracting the top 10 guys you need to win anymore.A lot of whining from a fan of a team that basically started the all-star team trend but the Celtics run is over unless they can get a Howard or Paul to come here and that just isn't going to happen on the open market. Boston doesn't offer what the celebrity draw that players want now. So any team other than a NY, Brooklyn, LA or Miami now needs to trade for a big chip and then cross their fingers they resign and bring more big chips with them. It is the new NBA landscape. When even big market teams with storied histories like Boston and Houston to an extent can't lure big FAs, how is a small market team expected to compete? I can atleast hold out hope that Boston can convince guys to come but if you are a fan of like a Milwaukee, Memphis type team, you basically have no chance to win a championship anymore. You basically have to be Cleveland and draft a franchise player and then you only will get your 5 or so years with him and if you don't win, you are screwed.
 
From Woj's most recent article here

“We were all told by the league he was a trade-able player, and now they’re saying that Dell doesn’t have the authority to make the trade?” said an NBA executive who had periodic talks with New Orleans throughout the process. “Now, they’re saying that Dell is an idiot, that he can’t do it his job. [Expletive] this whole thing. David’s drunk on power, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the players, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the hundreds of hours the teams put into make that deal.

“How do the Lakers explain this to Odom? How does Houston deal with the guys it just tried to trade? Scola and Martin are going to be pissed at them, and who knows how long that takes to get over? Explain to me how the league kills this Pau Gasol deal, but allows Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol?

“To me, this makes the league feel like it’s rigged, that Stern just does whatever Stern wants to do. He’s messed up the competitive balance of this league a lot worse by killing the deal, because you’ve completely destroyed the planning that New Orleans, Houston did and left them in shambles over this. I’ve never been so discouraged about this league, never so down.

“I mean, come on: Chris Paul is leaving New Orleans in 66 games. He’s gone. And what’s Dell Demps, and that franchise, going to have to show for it?”
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What a mess.
 
Is it possible for the NBA to look more like a joke league at this point? If they cared about small market teams and competitive balance they could have fought for a franchise tag, or some other mechanism to increase team leverage. But obviously they don't, and now just look ridiculous. It's like they are going out of their way to alienate fans.

 
'8ebok24 said:
John Hollinger is really showing how much he hates the Lakers in his latest article. He is irate that the trade got vetoed because he said the Hornets fleeced the Lakers.

No, the widely suspected reason that I'm only writing about an imaginary trade instead of a real one is that the league's owners were so irate over the agreed-to deal to send Paul to the Lakers that they implored commissioner David Stern to block it & apparently, because they were so focused on the idea of another shiny object going to the Lakers that they didn't really look at what was happening. meaning the Lakers were looking at an opening night frontcourt of Derrick Caracter and Luke Walton. Yes, this was offset with a monumental upgrade at point guard, but look at the big picture. Pau-for-Paul is pretty much an even swap. Last season they had virtually identical marks in PER (23.33 for Gasol and 23.76 for Paul) and Estimated Wins Added (17.9 and 18.3). Yes, Gasol is five years older, but he also has a much better injury history. Additionally, bigs age much better than small guards, primarily because it doesn't make them any shorter. Plus, I would argue that Gasol is a better fit in L.A. than Paul. For starters, Kobe Bryant and Paul have only one ball to share on the perimeter. But more importantly, Paul is a pick-and-roll maestro who thrives when surrounded by spot-up shooters, pick-and-pop big men and a finisher who can roll to the rim. This isn't Kobe, who struggles as a spot-up shooter, and it isn't Bynum, who likes to catch and hold in the post. In fact, the only four Lakers who really fit that style are Gasol and Odom, who were getting shipped off, and Derek Fisher and Steve Blake, whom Paul would have replaced. All of that makes me queasy from L.A's end about Pau-for-Paul straight up. Throwing in Odom, when the team has no depth and little means to replace him, tilts it heavily in the Hornets' favor. The Lakers would have had an $8.9 million trade exception, but with no meaningful assets (and I mean NONE) to put in a trade, they were going to have a big problem using it to get anybody good. The irony of all this, in other words, is that the owners were so upset about the Lakers potentially getting Howard, that they nixed a trade that would have virtually killed any chance of that happening.
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PER is not nearly as indicative of performance and Hollinger seems to believe. It is a really good stat, much better than any traditional (non-advanced) stat, but it the weights it assigns are off, imo.
 
'Voltaire said:
Did Dan Gilbert really end that e-mail with "please advise"? I thought that was strictly shtick from around here.
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Hilarious. :lmao:
Commissioner,It would be a travesty to allow the Lakers to acquire Chris Paul in the apparent trade being discussed.This trade should go to a vote of the 29 owners of the Hornets.Over the next three seasons this deal would save the Lakers approximately $20 million in salaries and approximately $21 million in luxury taxes. That $21 million goes to non-taxpaying teams and to fund revenue sharing.I cannot remember ever seeing a trade where a team got by far the best player in the trade and saved over $40 million in the process. And it doesn’t appear that they would give up any draft picks, which might allow to later make a trade for Dwight Howard. (They would also get a large trade exception that would help them improve their team and/or eventually trade for Howard.) When the Lakers got Pau Gasol (at the time considered an extremely lopsided trade) they took on tens of millions in additional salary and luxury tax and they gave up a number of prospects (one in Marc Gasol who may become a max-salary player).I just don’t see how we can allow this trade to happen.I know the vast majority of owners feel the same way that I do.When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?Please advise….Dan G
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:lmao: at 'Please advise...'

So, if the Lakers would have just taken back Okafor as well...everything would have been kosher?!?! :confused:

 
'the moops said:
'Voltaire said:
Did Dan Gilbert really end that e-mail with "please advise"? I thought that was strictly shtick from around here.
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Hilarious. :lmao:
Commissioner,It would be a travesty to allow the Lakers to acquire Chris Paul in the apparent trade being discussed.This trade should go to a vote of the 29 owners of the Hornets.Over the next three seasons this deal would save the Lakers approximately $20 million in salaries and approximately $21 million in luxury taxes. That $21 million goes to non-taxpaying teams and to fund revenue sharing.I cannot remember ever seeing a trade where a team got by far the best player in the trade and saved over $40 million in the process. And it doesn't appear that they would give up any draft picks, which might allow to later make a trade for Dwight Howard. (They would also get a large trade exception that would help them improve their team and/or eventually trade for Howard.) When the Lakers got Pau Gasol (at the time considered an extremely lopsided trade) they took on tens of millions in additional salary and luxury tax and they gave up a number of prospects (one in Marc Gasol who may become a max-salary player).I just don't see how we can allow this trade to happen.I know the vast majority of owners feel the same way that I do.When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?Please advise….Dan G
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This letter demonstrates two things: 1. GIlbert and the other owners are more concerned about the money outcome than they are about how the teams will perform; they are pissed and jealous because Jerry Buss might save some money. This is about pure envy, nothing more.2. Gilbert and the other owners care nothing about the Hornets. The issue of whether or not this deal benefits or hurts the Hornets, which is the ONLY factor the NBA owners in their capacity as owners of the Hornets should consider, is not even mentioned in this letter. That's why it's collusion, and that's why Stern's actions here are reprehensible.
 
'the moops said:
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?
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This is the best part of the letter. Hey Dan, if you don't want to be the Washington Generals, then don't act like them. When you're lucky enough to get one of the greatest players of all time in the draft, perhaps you should spend some money and surround him with a good supporting cast, rather than simply making as much as you can off him without improving the team, and then whining when he leaves. Guys like Gilbert are jealous of the Lakers because it's a big market team, but that's not the reason the Lakers have been successfull, otherwise the Knicks would have a ton of championship rings as well. The Lakers have been successful because they are smart, because they are willing to take gambles and spend money when they have to, unlike Dan Gilbert. And no matter how much guys like Gilbert try to devise new ways to equalize the NBA, it's never going to happen, because smart teams like the Lakers will always dominate over dumb teams like the Cavaliers.
 
I have heard it reported that if a player like C. Paul signs before Jan. 1 he can get more money on an extension. I would think that is in jeopardy now too. He could lose millions of dollars. Lawsuit material.

It's ridiculous to think that Stern did not know the players involved in this deal prior to it being announced. If he had a problem he should have delayed before hand. Obvious, other owners got involved to nix the deal which is basically collusion.

What a cluster-f. Stern shown to be completely inept as of late. You would think these scenarios would have been played out before hand. Instead Stern is flying by the seat of his pants with the future of a billion-dollar franchise.

"All right guys. I know your hammy hurts and that we just tried to ship you out before the season but I need you to give me your all tonight."

Amazing the Lakers, Rockets and Hornets could be left in the lurch like this.

 
Jason Richardson joining in...

jrich23 Jason RichardsonOnce again Buck Nasty a.k.a Dan Gilbert is letting his wrath being felt by being the main voice in the CP trade block.
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jrich23 Jason RichardsonRT @LyleHoneyman: @jrich23 No idea what he's thinking, players won't want to go play for an owner like him (I totally agree)
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And Terrence Williams...
TheRealTWill Terrence WilliamsIt's krazy @CP3 is not waking up a laker and it's dumb I'm not able to run that pick and roll with gasol smh sad disappointing day 4 NBA
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Dan Gilbert forgets he paid for a franchise in Cleveland. If he wanted a team that could draw players like LA, Chicago and NY he'd have to pay 3x's as much. Owners in major markets pay for that luxury. Wasn't handed to them.

Wilson Chandler​,

Raymond Felton​,

Danilo Gallinari​,

Timofey Mozgov,

the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick,

the Warriors' 2012 second-round pick,

the Warriors' 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

or

Luis Scola

Lamar Odom

Kevin Martin

Goran Dragic

2012 first-round pick that Houston had acquired from the Knicks.

Scola best player out of that bunch. Could make an argument Odom is 2nd most valuable.

Not to mention Paul's past knee issues.

This is collusion.

 
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What a joke, nothing Stern does can undo this disaster, this should be the beginning of the end for him.

Best tweet I saw was "Stern nixed Eddy Curry to Heat signing because of "basketball reasons"

 
'Daywalker said:
'Dr. Awesome said:
It's a lot of things but it's not collusion. Will you Laker folks stop saying that?
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What is the proper term for what rival owner's did? They pressured Stern to disallow a trade he obviously approved of. If not collusion what would you call it? Seriously.
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I would say the majority of the team's ownership (ie other owners) did not want to make the trade. Call that what you will but it's not collusion. It's a really screwed up system and one they should have fixed with the lockout but they didn't. Curious to see how Stern handles this mess over the next few days.
 
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