*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (4 Viewers)

[the moops]

So we can expect Paul Pierce's PPG to drop by half...

Is he viewed as one of the biggest culprits if this?

 

[randall146]

• Whether a player's foot is on the three-point line or midcourt line will be determined by where it last touched the floor, meaning a player could have a toe on the three-point line but if he leans back on his heels before he releases the ball a successful shot would be deemed a three-pointer.

I just spent a couple minutes trying to shoot simulated threes off my heels in my living room. Don't really think this new rule is gonna come into play, um, ever.

 

[No. 16]

• Whether a player's foot is on the three-point line or midcourt line will be determined by where it last touched the floor, meaning a player could have a toe on the three-point line but if he leans back on his heels before he releases the ball a successful shot would be deemed a three-pointer.

I just spent a couple minutes trying to shoot simulated threes off my heels in my living room. Don't really think this new rule is gonna come into play, um, ever.

Obviously you've never seen Kobe chuck shots up there with the clock winding down.

 

[No. 16]

"Rip-through" moves, in which an offensive player swings the ball into a defender's outstretched arm and then attempts a shot once he has created contact, will be considered non-shooting fouls if the contact begins before the offensive player starts his shooting motion.Also, on drives to the basket, a shooting foul will be called only if contact occurs after the offensive player has begun his shooting motion, not after he has initiated his leap toward the basket.

So we can expect Paul Pierce's PPG to drop by half...

And pretty much every other superstar.This "should" get rid of a ton of "superstar" calls.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

WWE

 

[Abraham]

Pierce and Kobe are masterful at the rip through. Lebron and Duncan get tons of continuation calls. If they actually enforce this it will make a difference.

Of course it won't happen.

 

[the moops]

Appears that the deal was Big Baby and Von Wafer for Bass.

Orlando signed Big Baby to a 4 year deal worth 26 million. They also signed Von Wafer to a 3 year deal.

 

[Greg Oden's Knee]

See you guys next season!!

 

[the moops]

LinkDavid West to Celtics?

 

[ffldrew]

"Rip-through" moves, in which an offensive player swings the ball into a defender's outstretched arm and then attempts a shot once he has created contact, will be considered non-shooting fouls if the contact begins before the offensive player starts his shooting motion.Also, on drives to the basket, a shooting foul will be called only if contact occurs after the offensive player has begun his shooting motion, not after he has initiated his leap toward the basket.

So we can expect Paul Pierce's PPG to drop by half...

And pretty much every other superstar.This "should" get rid of a ton of "superstar" calls.

Lets call this the Manu Ginobli rules

 

[No. 16]

Appears that the deal was Big Baby and Von Wafer for Bass.Orlando signed Big Baby to a 4 year deal worth 26 million. They also signed Von Wafer to a 3 year deal.

BYE BYE DWIGHT!

 

[No. 16]

LinkDavid West to Celtics?

Two solid picks in adding Bass and West if true. Since the Celtics have such a short window the contract West will receive doesn't matter much.

 

[The Flying Elvis]

LinkDavid West to Celtics?

Two solid picks in adding Bass and West if true. Since the Celtics have such a short window the contract West will receive doesn't matter much.

Hear 3-28 on David West. Sign and trade involving Jermaine O'Neal.

 

[Who Dat Ninja?]

I just want to clear somethings up.The ONLY reason the veto was actually executed was because the NBA "owns" the Hornets. Otherwise, Stern doesn't have the power to veto just any trade. Am I correct?

afaik, yes

Nice. Works for me.

I don't think this is true. All trades are subject to league (commissioner) approval. Think that goes for all professional leagues.Sorry, after re-reading the post, I guess you are correct that in this case ownership was the reason given.

 

[the moops]

LinkDavid West to Celtics?

Two solid picks in adding Bass and West if true. Since the Celtics have such a short window the contract West will receive doesn't matter much.

Hear 3-28 on David West. Sign and trade involving Jermaine O'Neal.

Man. Celts are pulling a David Kahn here in piling up power forwards.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Outspoken Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban, who voted against the NBA's new labor deal, agreed with the league's reversal, saying it would have been hypocritical coming hours after the CBA was ratified."The message is we went through this lockout for a reason," Cuban said Friday on ESPN Dallas 103.3 FM's "Ben and Skin Show." "Again, I'm not speaking for Stern. He's not telling me his thought process. I'm just telling you my perspective, having gone through all this. There's a reason that we went through this lockout, and one of the reasons is to give small-market teams the ability to keep their stars and the ability to compete."Cuban has been trying for years to trade for Paul but said he would have understood the league's decision to deny a trade even if the Mavericks would have agreed to a deal to get Paul."I mean, obviously, I wouldn't have been happy, but I would have understood because it was a conversation a lot of owners had long before the Laker deal was consummated," Cuban said. "It was like, 'Look, sure, I'd love him. Give him to me in a heartbeat.' But the whole idea of the lockout was to prevent stuff like that."Players will always have the right to choose what they want to do as a free agent, but the players agreed to rules that said, 'You know what? Let's give the home team, the incumbent team an extra advantage.' And that's how the rules were designed. I think they're going to work."

I'm a big Cuban fan, but I think he's way off here. Does he really think NO has a chance of keeping Paul past May? He can't be that stupid.

 

[Premier]

I seriously didn't know Von Wafer was still in the league.

That said, only the first year is guaranteed and I'm sure it's at the minimum.

 

[the moops]

I'm a big Cuban fan, but I think he's way off here. Does he really think NO has a chance of keeping Paul past May? He can't be that stupid.

If Paul wants the most money, then he will stay in New Orleans. So yes, there is a chance.

 

[the moops]

I seriously didn't know Von Wafer was still in the league. That said, only the first year is guaranteed and I'm sure it's at the minimum.

The 4 years for overweight Davis is the baffling part.

 

[timschochet]

The reason I don't think the Lakers will end up getting Dwight Howard is because I believe the Orlando owner would rather lose Howard in free agency and gain nothing for him rather than to trade him to the Lakers. I think he is one of those owners who are terribly jealous of the Lakers and will do nothing to help them even at the expense of his own team.

I hope I'm wrong about this.

 

[The Flying Elvis]

The reason I don't think the Lakers will end up getting Dwight Howard is because I believe the Orlando owner would rather lose Howard in free agency and gain nothing for him rather than to trade him to the Lakers. I think he is one of those owners who are terribly jealous of the Lakers and will do nothing to help them even at the expense of his own team. I hope I'm wrong about this.

Stop it.

 

[Premier]

The reason I don't think the Lakers will end up getting Dwight Howard is because I believe the Orlando owner would rather lose Howard in free agency and gain nothing for him rather than to trade him to the Lakers. I think he is one of those owners who are terribly jealous of the Lakers and will do nothing to help them even at the expense of his own team. I hope I'm wrong about this.

you don't even know the owners name. Shut up.

 

[Bobcat10]

LinkDavid West to Celtics?

Two solid picks in adding Bass and West if true. Since the Celtics have such a short window the contract West will receive doesn't matter much.

Hear 3-28 on David West. Sign and trade involving Jermaine O'Neal.

Based on what I can piece together from Hollinger and Woj...NO would have to move O'Neal somewhere to get the 3way back on track.Or, this is me spit balling here, maybe O'Neal to the Lakers in the deal instead of using the TE...and a pick back to NO?

 

[Instinctive]

The reason I don't think the Lakers will end up getting Dwight Howard is because I believe the Orlando owner would rather lose Howard in free agency and gain nothing for him rather than to trade him to the Lakers. I think he is one of those owners who are terribly jealous of the Lakers and will do nothing to help them even at the expense of his own team. I hope I'm wrong about this.

Tim, I'm not one of the haters you seem to have cultivated here, but that's moronic. No owner tries to screw over another team if it hurts his team. He may choose a similar package with a different team, but he's not gonna say, "Wow, Pau, Bynum and Odom for Dwight? #### that, not for you LA!" You gotta get over the martyr #### in the basketball thread. Good grief.

 

[Premier]

Basically comparing Rich DeVos to Dan Gilbert is a new low in Tim stupidity. Guy is like 90 years old and almost never speaks to the media.

Get a freaking clue Tim. You're so lost in your stupid homer bull#### to the point where you're impossible to even read.

 

[timschochet]

The reason I don't think the Lakers will end up getting Dwight Howard is because I believe the Orlando owner would rather lose Howard in free agency and gain nothing for him rather than to trade him to the Lakers. I think he is one of those owners who are terribly jealous of the Lakers and will do nothing to help them even at the expense of his own team. I hope I'm wrong about this.

Tim, I'm not one of the haters you seem to have cultivated here, but that's moronic. No owner tries to screw over another team if it hurts his team. He may choose a similar package with a different team, but he's not gonna say, "Wow, Pau, Bynum and Odom for Dwight? #### that, not for you LA!" You gotta get over the martyr #### in the basketball thread. Good grief.

I admit I'm carrying on and having a little fun here. But I did hear Chris Broussard state that the owner of the Magic (whatever his name is, Premier!) was one of the whiny ones incensed about the proposed Paul trade, and that for his part was going to do nothing to help the Lakers. So while it amuses me to go a little overboard here, there is a little bit a truth in what I've written. Just a tiny bit.

 

[simmonjm]

The reason I don't think the Lakers will end up getting Dwight Howard is because I believe the Orlando owner would rather lose Howard in free agency and gain nothing for him rather than to trade him to the Lakers. I think he is one of those owners who are terribly jealous of the Lakers and will do nothing to help them even at the expense of his own team. I hope I'm wrong about this.

you don't even know the owners name. Shut up.

 

[timschochet]

Basically comparing Rich DeVos to Dan Gilbert is a new low in Tim stupidity. Guy is like 90 years old and almost never speaks to the media. Get a freaking clue Tim. You're so lost in your stupid homer bull#### to the point where you're impossible to even read.

It might have been the general manager. Whoever Broussard was referring to. On a serious note, I asked you a few days ago if you would hold onto Dwight and take your chances that you might keep him, and you said yes. At first I disagreed with you, but the more I thought about it, the more I've come to agree with you. Orlando is not Cleveland. You're going to get players who want to be there. So at the very worst, if you fail to sign Howard, you get the money that you would have spent and can use it on other free agents. You'll never get equal market value for Dwight through a trade, so I can't see how you lose by taking the chance. Getting Davis was a good move. Who knows, maybe a good front line can overwhelm Miami in the playoffs. And if you can get to the finals, Dwight might stay. I think it's worth a shot. I wouldn't trade him. (Hope you do, obviously, but that's not the same thing.)

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

The reason I don't think the Lakers will end up getting Dwight Howard is because I believe the Orlando owner would rather lose Howard in free agency and gain nothing for him rather than to trade him to the Lakers. I think he is one of those owners who are terribly jealous of the Lakers and will do nothing to help them even at the expense of his own team. I hope I'm wrong about this.

Oh, good god.

 

[Fightin Donkey]

It's a lot of things but it's not collusion. Will you Laker folks stop saying that?

What is the proper term for what rival owner's did? They pressured Stern to disallow a trade he obviously approved of. If not collusion what would you call it? Seriously.

I would say the majority of the team's ownership (ie other owners) did not want to make the trade. Call that what you will but it's not collusion. It's a really screwed up system and one they should have fixed with the lockout but they didn't. Curious to see how Stern handles this mess over the next few days.

I haven't read a ton on this trade, but wouldn't it have saddled NO with a ton of long term salary?With the NBA owning it, wouldn't that long term salary be a deterrent to a prospective new owner who would want to build a team the way they want?

 

[Premier]

I seriously didn't know Von Wafer was still in the league. That said, only the first year is guaranteed and I'm sure it's at the minimum.

The 4 years for overweight Davis is the baffling part.

It's 6M a year for a guy who will be in your rotation (likely) for the term of the contract. Not great, not horrible. Bass is a good player, but he never clicked with SVG and the ball ALWAYS stops with him on offense. It was annoying. The best part of this deal is that it appears Ryan Anderson finally gets his deserved starting gig.

 

[Premier]

Basically comparing Rich DeVos to Dan Gilbert is a new low in Tim stupidity. Guy is like 90 years old and almost never speaks to the media. Get a freaking clue Tim. You're so lost in your stupid homer bull#### to the point where you're impossible to even read.

It might have been the general manager. Whoever Broussard was referring to. On a serious note, I asked you a few days ago if you would hold onto Dwight and take your chances that you might keep him, and you said yes. At first I disagreed with you, but the more I thought about it, the more I've come to agree with you. Orlando is not Cleveland. You're going to get players who want to be there. So at the very worst, if you fail to sign Howard, you get the money that you would have spent and can use it on other free agents. You'll never get equal market value for Dwight through a trade, so I can't see how you lose by taking the chance. Getting Davis was a good move. Who knows, maybe a good front line can overwhelm Miami in the playoffs. And if you can get to the finals, Dwight might stay. I think it's worth a shot. I wouldn't trade him. (Hope you do, obviously, but that's not the same thing.)

See, now this is something I can buy into. For the record, Broussard hasn't had a good day. Started the morning saying Dwight would demand a trade today and probably would be traded today (which Woj from Yahoo couldn't confirm), then the Dwight met the Nets thing, which nobody else can confirm, then backed off the trade thing because of the tampering thing...all of which he's the only guy to report. Hopefully somebody is just playing him.

 

[tommyGunZ]

ESPN now reporting that Otis Smith granted Howard permission to talk to 3 teams (NJ, LA, and either Dallas or the Clippers).

 

[Premier]

"In addition, the report that Dwight was supposed to be traded today is also inaccurate. In fact, so many of the facts reported in today's story are inaccurate, it is difficult to separate the facts from fiction, so I'm not even going to bother to address the other inaccuracies."

Man, Broussard really is terrible.

Oh well. If he's traded, hope it's to the Clippers for Gordon and Wolves #1.

 

[The Flying Elvis]

Basically comparing Rich DeVos to Dan Gilbert is a new low in Tim stupidity. Guy is like 90 years old and almost never speaks to the media. Get a freaking clue Tim. You're so lost in your stupid homer bull#### to the point where you're impossible to even read.

It might have been the general manager. Whoever Broussard was referring to. On a serious note, I asked you a few days ago if you would hold onto Dwight and take your chances that you might keep him, and you said yes. At first I disagreed with you, but the more I thought about it, the more I've come to agree with you. Orlando is not Cleveland. You're going to get players who want to be there. So at the very worst, if you fail to sign Howard, you get the money that you would have spent and can use it on other free agents. You'll never get equal market value for Dwight through a trade, so I can't see how you lose by taking the chance. Getting Davis was a good move. Who knows, maybe a good front line can overwhelm Miami in the playoffs. And if you can get to the finals, Dwight might stay. I think it's worth a shot. I wouldn't trade him. (Hope you do, obviously, but that's not the same thing.)

See, now this is something I can buy into. For the record, Broussard hasn't had a good day. Started the morning saying Dwight would demand a trade today and probably would be traded today (which Woj from Yahoo couldn't confirm), then the Dwight met the Nets thing, which nobody else can confirm, then backed off the trade thing because of the tampering thing...all of which he's the only guy to report. Hopefully somebody is just playing him.

Broussard is a tool. All he is, is a mouth piece for the star players like Lebron and Paul. If they want something to leak they go to him.

 

[timschochet]

Broussard is a tool. All he is, is a mouth piece for the star players like Lebron and Paul. If they want something to leak they go to him.

Why would anyone leak to him that Howard had met with the Nets? How would a charge of tampering help anybody?

 

[Bobcat10]

Broussard is a tool. All he is, is a mouth piece for the star players like Lebron and Paul. If they want something to leak they go to him.

Why would anyone leak to him that Howard had met with the Nets? How would a charge of tampering help anybody?

Might help the Lakers....

 

[tommyGunZ]

I hate Broussard as well. Seems like the Nets did meet with Howard, but instead of just reporting what he knew was fact, Broussard had to run the "Howard will be a Net today" BS to try and be the man who broke the news.

 

[the moops]

SherrodbCSN A. Sherrod Blakely A source close to #Celtics J. O'Neal said if he's traded to the #Hornets, he will ask to be waived, and will look to sign with the #Heat.

 

[GOB]

The reason I don't think the Lakers will end up getting Dwight Howard is because I believe the Orlando owner would rather lose Howard in free agency and gain nothing for him rather than to trade him to the Lakers. I think he is one of those owners who are terribly jealous of the Lakers and will do nothing to help them even at the expense of his own team. I hope I'm wrong about this.

Holy Christ

 

[timschochet]

The reason I don't think the Lakers will end up getting Dwight Howard is because I believe the Orlando owner would rather lose Howard in free agency and gain nothing for him rather than to trade him to the Lakers. I think he is one of those owners who are terribly jealous of the Lakers and will do nothing to help them even at the expense of his own team. I hope I'm wrong about this.

Holy Christ

I'd pray if I could.

 

[EYLive]

Tim has keyboard diarrhea. There's no stopping his stupidity.

 

[Instinctive]

ESPN now reporting that Otis Smith granted Howard permission to talk to 3 teams (NJ, LA, and either Dallas or the Clippers).

please god

 

[timschochet]

Tim has keyboard diarrhea. There's no stopping his stupidity.

Who the #### are you?

 

[Abraham]

I will say this: the drama of the last two days has sucked me right back in to the nba.

Ftr - I think the shortened season helps the spurs win one More.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

This thread is like the FFA's grease-trap for idiocy.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Marc Stein reporting that the Lakers/Hornets/Rockets may have an offer to present to the league as soon as tomorrow.

Meanwhile, Orlando Magic PR guy confirms that Howard has been given permission to talk to the Lakers, Nets, and Mavs about a possible trade.

 

[Truman]

First bolded: What? Cleveland led the league in wins with LeBron one season, and made the Finals in a different season. They absolutely put him in a position to win a title. They just didn't get it done and he didn't want to stick around and give them more chances, even though there's a pretty good chance they would have gotten it done in the next few years. And when he left he didn't go to the place he thought had the best chance of putting a winning team together. That would probably have been Chicago. He went to one of the glamour destinations (one of just a handful in the league) so he could play with his buddy and try to build a superteam. That is what I'm saying is the new phenomenon, and it's bad for the league.

We've covered this so many times already, but You're crazy if you think that Cleveland team was put together well enough to win anything, and the results bear that out. They had a shot at impact players - not Jamison or gimpy Shaq - but didn't pull the trigger because guys like Parker and West were untouchable. Maybe that's what LeBron dictated, but either way they ####ed up and eventually landed themselves in cap hell as a result of their bad decisions. They land Stoudamire instead of Jamison, he's probably still in Cleveland and they probably have a ring or two to show for it. So LeBron left. Learn from that and move on. But that's not on the players, that's on the bad management decisions. It's that simple.

I think you need to consider the possibility that the didn't/couldn't land Stoudamire because, they're in Cleveland, either because Stoudamire didn't want to go there or because LeBron didn't want to give assurances that he'd stay there. That is exactly the sort of problem I'm referring to.

No Toby, I'm talking about 2.5 years or so ago when Cleveland could have traded for Stoudamire but (IIRC) wouldn't include Anthony Parker in the package so PHO walked away from the deal. No FA involved there at all. Cle management just simply ####ed up, and it was obvious at the time (at least to me).

Fair enough.But you can find personnel errors by every team, so that kind of seems like cherry-picking rather than definitive evidence that the Cavs were poorly run. You were a Lakers fan when they traded Butler in his prime for Kwame, you don't need me to tell you that.

But that Cle one was just one of several. Like I said, they turned down some other deals that would have helped because Delonte West was untouchable. Then they take on Jamison's miserable contract essentially hamstringing themselves from being able to sign any top FAs. Lots of little things like that. Maybe those are all moves LeBron "dictated" but it's still on management to be the adult in the relationship. LeBron would get over it at the point he realized he's got a better wing man than Mo Williams. The Cavs got their lottery ticket, had 7 years, and they blew it - why the #### should any superstar caliber player want to reup for a situation like that? Blew it is too harsh - that was arguably the best 7 years of Cavs BBall, depending on how you feel about the Daugherty/Price years. What a jerk LeBron was for carrying that franchise.

And it was one of several for L.A. too. It's hard to make a worse personnel decision than drafting Javaris freaking Crittenton in the first round.Bottom line: explain to me why it's rational behavior for me to continue to support the Wizards given the actions of almost every elite player in the league over the last half-decade. Just cross my fingers and hand over thousands of dollars for tickets and watch hundreds of hours of games on the slim chance that Wall is more Kevin Durant than LeBron/Carmelo/Paul/Bosh/Amare/Williams/etc.?

Every other league has figured out a way to answer that question for small and mid market teams. The NBA needs to do the same.

Yeah, when will the NBA ever find a way for markets like Detroit and San Antonio to compete with the big boys?

How can a small market team ever compete when we see this sort of behaviour from superstars over the last 6 years?

2011 - Mavs win the title led by Dirk Nowitzki, playing in his 13th year for the franchise, a team which started their turnaround 11 years earlier when purchased by Mark Cuban

2010 - Lakers win led by Kobe in his 15th year with the franchise

2009 - Lakers win led by Kobe in his 14th year with the franchise

2008 - Celtics win led by Paul Pierce in his 11th year with the franchise

2007 - Spurs win led by Tim Duncan (11th year) and Tony Parker (8th year) - their 4th title in 9 years for this massive media market.

2006 - Heat win led by Dwyane Wade in his 4th year with the team, having traded for Shaq from the Lakers.

Or maybe the problem is all these 'super teams' being built these days. After all, look at what the Heat did and all that Carmelo drama last year (after he had played for the team for 8 seasons, the same length of time James Harrison has been a Pittsburgh Steeler, a year shy of LT2's entire Chargers career and MJs first Bulls tenure).

So let's take a look at how many number 1 picks have left their original teams when their rookie contracts were up. We'll go back to the 98 lockout, should give us a reasonable sample size:

Bogut, Bargnani, Oden (and Durant), Derrick Rose, Dwight Howard, Lebron James, Yao Ming, Blake Griffin, John Wall are all either on their original rookie deals or signed extensions to stay with the teams that drafted them. A 4 year window? Kenyon Martin was involved in a sign and trade, Elton Brand was traded by the Bulls, Michael Olowokandi was not wanted and Kwame Brown was dumped in a trade.

THERE ISN'T A SINGLE NUMBER ONE OVERALL PICK WHO HASN'T SIGNED AN EXTENSION WHEN OFFERED SINCE ROOKIE CONTRACTS WERE INTRODUCED

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Chicago will probably sign Rip Hamilton.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

LA, HOU, and NO re-working trade, so I guess Stern will have a chance to save some face.