*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (2 Viewers)

[Premier]

Blake Griffin, Eric Bledsoe, Ryan Gomes, Mo WilliamsforDwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu

Now this is a Dwight trade I'd get behind.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Why are people suggesting Paul won't stay in LA? Huge market, great talent next to him in Blake, good supporting cast...no-brainier he re-signs.

Agreed. If Paul was a free agent today he'd want to go to the Knicks, but he's not. In two years Stoudemire will be 31 and Anthony 29. Griffin will be in his prime and the Clippers shouldn't have any trouble attracting a top wing free agent between now and then.

 

[Abraham]

The magic might do that.

 

[Kev4029]

Why are people suggesting Paul won't stay in LA? Huge market, great talent next to him in Blake, good supporting cast...no-brainier he re-signs.

Maybe it's just my inherent defeatist Clipper mentality. I hope he does extend his contract.As far as the good supporting cast goes; I love Jordan and Bledsoe, everyone else is sucky and old.

The Clips will be fun to watch, especially for casual observers, but I was really hoping for a long and steady climb towards championship contention with Griffin, Gordon, Bledsoe, Aminu and Jordan over the next 5 years.

I don't think they were going to get anywhere close with that lineup. Griffin is gonna be a superstar, Gordon was probably gonna be a perennial borderline All-Star but Jordan, Bledsoe and Aminu aren't ever going to be more than mediocre to average starters IMO. To go from mediocre playoff team to Championship contender you got to turn assets into stars and that is exactly what the Clips did. I think the team is MUCH better now than it was before the trade and its still young enough to grow.

 

[Kev4029]

Blake Griffin, Eric Bledsoe, Ryan Gomes, Mo WilliamsforDwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu

I don't think the Clippers would trade Griffin for anybody in the league and they certainly wouldn't trade all their other tradable assets for Turkeyglue.

 

[shadyridr]

Blake Griffin, Eric Bledsoe, Ryan Gomes, Mo WilliamsforDwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu

Now this is a Dwight trade I'd get behind.

Clippers wouldnt do that

 

[timschochet]

1. Blake Griffin has played for exactly 1 year.

2. The Clippers have played for nearly 40 years.

3. Blake Griffin is already the best player in Clippers history.

4. The Clippers will never trade Blake Griffin.

 

[simmonjm]

Anyone interested in becoming co-manager with me for my first attempt at fantasy basketball. League has 14 teams with $100 entry fee I will pay entire fee. If we win I will give you %25 of winnings. League is hosted on espn.

payout is 1000 for first 300 for 2nd and 100 for 3rd.

Forgot to mention that draft takes place tomorrow at 6pm MST

PM if interested.

 

[Abraham]

I think that if the clippers sign Blake long term (which is fairly likely) then its a very good chance that Paul will be there as well.

 

[Spartans Rule]

1. Blake Griffin has played for exactly 1 year. 2. The Clippers have played for nearly 40 years.3. Blake Griffin is already the best player in Clippers history.4. The Clippers will never trade Blake Griffin.

If you're counting the Buffalo Braves years, he's still got a ways to go to catch Bob McAdoo.

 

[Abraham]

Would mo Williams for bill walker and Landry fields make sense for both teams?

 

[Kev4029]

Would mo Williams for bill walker and Landry fields make sense for both teams?

Financially unpossible for the Knicks and it would just trade the Knicks PG problem with a SG problem. Clippers would probably do it though.

 

[datonn]

As a Clipper fan, I'd rather have Eric Gordon and the MN draft pick than 2 years of Chris Paul.

In case you missed it, Ricky Rubio is on the Wolves this year. Oh, and they still have 5 power forwards. Clippers would have been lucky to get a top 25 pick. Good move on their part. They saw the writing on the wall.

WOW!!! An unstoppable combination! They really may as well be the Washington Generals.

The thing being lost in all of this is that the Wolves MASSIVELY upgraded their coaching staff in the off-season. Adelman and several of the assistants he brought in are a phenomenal upgrade from Rambis...or McHale...or Casey. I realize that it's been fashionable to rip the Wolves for years as being the suck. Rightly so! But I think this team will certainly win more games than they won in 2010-2011. Even with the shorter season. I'm not trying to claim .500 or playoffs or anything crazy! But the Wolves might be one of the most improved teams in the NBA this season. Not only due to Rubio and Williams, but also Adelman and the new assistant coaches. Fun stuff...as there's more buzz about the Wolves in Minnesota right now than there probably has been since KG, Sprewell, and Cassell got them ever-so-close to the Championship.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Would mo Williams for bill walker and Landry fields make sense for both teams?

If I'm the Knicks I keep Landry.I'm also in the "Paul likely to stay" camp. And the "there's no way that LAC is trading Griffin for Howard" camp. Blake still has cheap years left.Stern got a great haul for Paul. He obviously knew something that Demps and the rest of us didn't, because that's just an amazing return for a guy who had one and a half feet out the door. And a bum wheel.

 

[StrikeS2k]

1. Blake Griffin has played for exactly 1 year. 2. The Clippers have played for nearly 40 years.3. Blake Griffin is already the best player in Clippers history.4. The Clippers will never trade Blake Griffin.

Really? What if the team still sucks when his rookie contract is in it's last year and he tells the team he won't resign?

 

[StrikeS2k]

Why are people suggesting Paul won't stay in LA? Huge market, great talent next to him in Blake, good supporting cast...no brainer he re-signs.

The Clippers have a way of shooting themselves in the foot. If that happens again this year I could see Paul walking instead of committing himself to 4 or more years of living with the Clippers curse.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Maybe Paul won't like playing for an owner who's a racist slumlord? That's always a possibility.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

As a Clipper fan, I'd rather have Eric Gordon and the MN draft pick than 2 years of Chris Paul.

people are over valuing Gordon too much. Hes not a superstar

I don't really care if people on the other side of the country feel like he's a star or not. As a fan that actually watches the games (and I doubt there are many in here who do), Gordon's a bonafide scorer that's getting better.

Derp

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Blake Griffin, Eric Bledsoe, Ryan Gomes, Mo WilliamsforDwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu

 

[Daywalker]

Clips going to be a contender this season. Next year? They got some cap space. Howard should either force a trade to Lakers or walk and join Clips.

Paul

Griffin

Howard

That would be something. Three top 8 players on one team.

Clips gave up a lot but they are positioned to win this year as well as to entice a 3rd superstar to join them.

Think everyone not understanding how good Griffin is. He was a rookie last year. He improves his game 15% and he's top 3 player in league.

 

[Shrugs]

Clips going to be a contender this season. Next year? They got some cap space. Howard should either force a trade to Lakers or walk and join Clips.

Do they really still have cap space?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Clips going to be a contender this season. Next year? They got some cap space. Howard should either force a trade to Lakers or walk and join Clips.

Do they really still have cap space?

Not enough for Howard, no.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

 

[Bobcat10]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?

Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

The Lakers deal was better.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?

Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

The Lakers deal was better.

That would certainly be an amusing approach.

 

[pollardsvision]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

Clearly, it worked out very well and the uproar doesn't appear to have been warranted (putting aside that I have a feeling that everyone's overrating Gordon and this pick). Stern went from looking like he'd lost control of his league to a total genius.I don't think Simmons will have a problem eating some crow. It happens.The way it went down was still a debacle.Stern led his league's most important franchise to believe they were negotiating with someone who actually had a say in the matter. Was Stern a mastermind, or did he bend to the will of the Gilberts of the league?I don't think we know that, but I still think it's more of the latter. If Stern knew this all along, why in the hell did he even let Demps negotiate with the Lakers?The words "youth" and "Lakers" don't belong in the same sentence (unless Bynum's involved). If he thought he could get Gordon and the pick from the Clips, then the way it went down doesn't really make sense.The Laker veto gave Stern leverage, but it also took some away. I highly doubt Stern planned to gain leverage in the "we have to save this PR nightmare" form. That "leverage" wasn't placed on the Clips, just pressure on Stern. Certainly, keeping the Lakers open as an option would've been the more effective method to gain leverage and not given the impression that the league was acting like a petty fantasy league. Obviously, there was overreaction and some crow to be eaten, but that doesn't mean all the criticism was wrong.

 

[pollardsvision]

To think Stern was a total mastermind, you'd have to believe it went down something like this:

"Hey, Stu, what do you think of this plan?

I think we can get that Sterling to give up Gordon and Minnesota's pick for Paul. Here's what I'll do, I'll let Demps negotiate a trade with the Lakers. Now, of course we won't accept whatever trade it is because they can't give us anything worth a #### that's not over 28 years old. We'll let Demps work one out though, let the media report it, then we'll nix it. We'll get that idiot Gilbert popping off. It'll be brilliant. The nation already thinks we're a crooked league. The public uproar will put all kinds of pressure on us to make an amazing trade for Paul.

I'll risk the public's perception of our league's integrity to gain some false leverage with Sterling. He'll be too stupid to realize we have no other trade partners for a player we have to trade.

How's that for a master plan?"

 

[TobiasFunke]

To think Stern was a total mastermind, you'd have to believe it went down something like this:"Hey, Stu, what do you think of this plan?I think we can get that Sterling to give up Gordon and Minnesota's pick for Paul. Here's what I'll do, I'll let Demps negotiate a trade with the Lakers. Now, of course we won't accept whatever trade it is because they can't give us anything worth a #### that's not over 28 years old. We'll let Demps work one out though, let the media report it, then we'll nix it. We'll get that idiot Gilbert popping off. It'll be brilliant. The nation already thinks we're a crooked league. The public uproar will put all kinds of pressure on us to make an amazing trade for Paul.I'll risk the public's perception of our league's integrity to gain some false leverage with Sterling. He'll be too stupid to realize we have no other trade partners for a player we have to trade.How's that for a master plan?"

Mastermind? Maybe not. But did he make the right decision? Absolutely.FWIW he claims that the Lakers/Rockets trade was never even close to being finalized, and that it was leaked to the media by people who wanted to exert pressure on the league to accept the deal. Given the way this has all gone down that seems as likely as any other explanation.

 

[boubucarow]

Am I the only one who sees Hamilton as a bad fit in Chicago? Hes a mediocre defender, doesn't rebound, is only especially effective when running off screens, he is an inefficient scorer, hes had a bad time with injuries of late and hes almost 34 and is just going to get less effective. I suppose his ability to hit 18 footers is nice, but not $10m/2yr nice.

It will be interesting to see if the worsening of his stats has more to do with age or his general unhappiness on a struggling team. I suspect it will be a combination so we'll see an improvement this year. I don't really think the Bulls are expecting all that much. At only a two year deal (might have a team option for a third) they really aren't investing a lot in him. I don't think rebounding will be an issue. The Bulls should still be a top rebounding team like last year. Thibs defense is known to put the most pressure on big men (think Noah/KG as the anchors) so Rip will do OK. Certainly Rip will be better defensively than Korver and the Bulls can sub in Brewer when necessary. Rip has always gotten to the line at a surprising frequency so that should help. He certainly will be an upgrade over Bogans. The question is: Could they have gotten someone better? I don't think so. Even if Jamal Crawford ends up signing for mid-level money, he has his issues too. All the good RFA candidates would be matched by their team. Who do you think they should have gone after?

I'm sure most won't agree, but I think Vince Carter would have been a better fit. He is a better three point shooter, hes a better defender and even though he disappears sometimes, he is still very capable of creating his own shot which would have been a huge help for the Bulls and Rose. I think the biggest weakness the Bulls have is the lack of shot creators, if Rose isn't playing well they have a hard time getting good looks for other players. With Carter they would have had a guy that may have been able to pick up the slack from time to time and even run the offense if Rose is being hounded by Lebron James. I think a Brewer/Carter rotation would have been fantastic for the Bulls.

There is a Grantland article on Phil Jackson and the triangle offense. In it, Phil talked of the Triangle needing two ball handlers on the floor together. He mentioned that it was easier to defend high on a point guards who dominated the ball like Isiah or Stockton and disrupt an entire offense. That is exactly what happened to the Bulls last year first against Indiana and then Miami. They disrupted everything the Bulls were doing by pressing/doubling Rose at half court and getting the ball out of his hands. The issue is that if you get another ball handler at SG they are often in the Crawford mode which would not help the flow on offense. Rip does provide more offense in an area of the floor that could help the Bulls (curling of his screens). However, unless like Jux suggested, he had soured on Detroit and can return to his efficiency levels of a couple years ago, the Bulls have done little to upgrade. Carter might have been a better fit since he could not only create a bit for himself but initiate offense for others on top of hitting the 3, yet he is near the cliff as well and was pretty horrid with Phoenix same as Rip with Detroit. I don't think anything truly available would have been a slam dunk upgrade.As it looks like Rose isn't getting any help in the creating department, they have to figure out how to alleviate the pressure on Rose against a George or LeBron. They need to play him off the ball and make those players work chasing him off of screens and work some backside plays to free up shots. It would look like Watson or Deng might be the best option although Noah as some promise as a passer in a high post offense role if in fact he can hit that jumper with some consistency. If the Bulls keep the ball in Rose's hands against those just quick enough defenders who can use their length to prevent Rose from initiating offense, I see them struggling again to score enough.

 

[timschochet]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

They weren't wrong. I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that." He was pressured by owners who said, "We don't want another big star going to the Lakers," and that's why he vetoed. It was a terrible move, it makes Stern and the NBA look awful. It was collusion, and unethical. The fact that the Clippers would make a dumb trade a week later has no bearing on that.

 

[pollardsvision]

To think Stern was a total mastermind, you'd have to believe it went down something like this:"Hey, Stu, what do you think of this plan?I think we can get that Sterling to give up Gordon and Minnesota's pick for Paul. Here's what I'll do, I'll let Demps negotiate a trade with the Lakers. Now, of course we won't accept whatever trade it is because they can't give us anything worth a #### that's not over 28 years old. We'll let Demps work one out though, let the media report it, then we'll nix it. We'll get that idiot Gilbert popping off. It'll be brilliant. The nation already thinks we're a crooked league. The public uproar will put all kinds of pressure on us to make an amazing trade for Paul.I'll risk the public's perception of our league's integrity to gain some false leverage with Sterling. He'll be too stupid to realize we have no other trade partners for a player we have to trade.How's that for a master plan?"

Mastermind? Maybe not. But did he make the right decision? Absolutely.FWIW he claims that the Lakers/Rockets trade was never even close to being finalized, and that it was leaked to the media by people who wanted to exert pressure on the league to accept the deal. Given the way this has all gone down that seems as likely as any other explanation.

That would make sense. We don't know how it went down and we're all just guessing.That's a pretty big problem though. Fans shouldn't even be having this discussion. As the Hornets owner, he made a brilliant trade. As the NBA's Commissioner, he royally screwed up, imo.

 

[Premier]

I can just picture Tim ripping his ascot off in anger last night when he saw that Clippers trade go down.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

They weren't wrong. I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that." He was pressured by owners who said, "We don't want another big star going to the Lakers," and that's why he vetoed. It was a terrible move, it makes Stern and the NBA look awful. It was collusion, and unethical. The fact that the Clippers would make a dumb trade a week later has no bearing on that.

It really was a ####ty deal for NO. They were taking on too much salary and too little upside. Who would buy that team?

 

[timschochet]

I can just picture Tim ripping his ascot off in anger last night when he saw that Clippers trade go down.

Quite. My pipe flew across the room.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?

Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

They weren't wrong. I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that." He was pressured by owners who said, "We don't want another big star going to the Lakers," and that's why he vetoed. It was a terrible move, it makes Stern and the NBA look awful. It was collusion, and unethical. The fact that the Clippers would make a dumb trade a week later has no bearing on that.

So far it's everything I hoped it would be. I knew I'd get the hilarious victim mentality, but I particularly like the "I know exactly what happened, even though I not only have no first-hand knowledge but it hasn't even been reported" angle. Didn't see that one coming.

Anything else?

 

[Kev4029]

Whats the word on everyone's favorite 7 foot bafoon Mozgov?You would not believe how many Knicks fans were pissed that clumsy handed oaf was included in the Melo deal

The talk around Denver is that he is going to start at center and Nene is going to move back (well, not really back because hes pretty much always been a center, but the Nuggs drafted him a decade ago to be a PF) to power forward. People around here seem to think that just because hes big and 7'1" he will be a good play at center and I guess there is some rumor floating about that he has a nice 15 foot jumper. I don't really believe it because I'm not sure I ever saw him shoot it with the Nuggets in the 25 or whatever games we had him. I guess we'll see if he is actually any good this year because hes certainly going to get more PT with KMart out of the picture.

 

[timschochet]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?

Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

They weren't wrong. I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that." He was pressured by owners who said, "We don't want another big star going to the Lakers," and that's why he vetoed. It was a terrible move, it makes Stern and the NBA look awful. It was collusion, and unethical. The fact that the Clippers would make a dumb trade a week later has no bearing on that.

So far it's everything I hoped it would be. I knew I'd get the hilarious victim mentality, but I particularly like the "I know exactly what happened, even though I not only have no first-hand knowledge but it hasn't even been reported" angle. Didn't see that one coming.

Anything else?

d.

I didn't write that I knew exactly what happened. I'm simply writing what I believe. I don't claim to have any truth to back it up. But neither do you. I base my assumption on the Gilbert letter, which never discusses whether or not New Orleans can get a better deal, but only if the Lakers should be allowed to get another superstar. That was enough for me to reach my conclusion. But it's not proof. You and Cliff and all the Laker haters are gleeful right now, and you should be. First we get screwed by the league, then we follow it up with a catastrophic move that not even Jmon is willing to defend anymore. It appears we have a new guy in charge who is more interested in putting his own brand on the team than improving it, and that sucks. We'll have to see how this plays out, but at the moment things are looking pretty gloomy.

 

[pollardsvision]

I don't think Simmons is going to have to eat that much crow.

In his Tuesday column, he was all over this.

He didn't think it would happen (or that the Clippers should give up Gordon), but he spent almost half the column (the serious part) discussing why Stern might believe he could pull this off.

He came down off the cliff to put out a very reasonable article.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7348176/the-eighth-day-nba-christmas

 

[Kev4029]

I think not taking the Lakers trade was a horrible move which just happened to be vindicated by the Clippers trade. IMO, for the next year or two a lineup of Dragic, Martin, Ariza, Scola, Okafor with Odom, Jack, Belinelli and some one year free agents is better than Jack, Gordon, Ariza, PF FA #1, Okafor with Belinelli, Kaman, Aminu and some one year free agents and a pick that should be between 5-10 next year. The Lakers trade was going to make them a playoff team and the Clippers trade is going to make them really bad, but not quite bad enough to get a top 3 pick. I think we are going to see the Hornets stuck around 25-30 wins for the next 4 or 5 years because of the trade.

But more importantly, when Stern undercut his GM it made the league look corrupt and made the Hornets organization look like a joke. Either he shouldn't have given Demps the power to accept trades, or he should have let him do his job. I don't think it was unethical or collusion like some Lakers fans seem to think, but it was a horrible business decision from the NBA's point of view and gave the league another black eye. We'll all look at this differently 5 or 10 years from now because he was able to swing an alright trade, but it sure didn't look like that was going to be the case when he stopped the Lakers trade.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?

Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

They weren't wrong. I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that." He was pressured by owners who said, "We don't want another big star going to the Lakers," and that's why he vetoed. It was a terrible move, it makes Stern and the NBA look awful. It was collusion, and unethical. The fact that the Clippers would make a dumb trade a week later has no bearing on that.

So far it's everything I hoped it would be. I knew I'd get the hilarious victim mentality, but I particularly like the "I know exactly what happened, even though I not only have no first-hand knowledge but it hasn't even been reported" angle. Didn't see that one coming.

Anything else?

d.

I didn't write that I knew exactly what happened. I'm simply writing what I believe. I don't claim to have any truth to back it up. But neither do you. I base my assumption on the Gilbert letter, which never discusses whether or not New Orleans can get a better deal, but only if the Lakers should be allowed to get another superstar. That was enough for me to reach my conclusion. But it's not proof. You and Cliff and all the Laker haters are gleeful right now, and you should be. First we get screwed by the league, then we follow it up with a catastrophic move that not even Jmon is willing to defend anymore. It appears we have a new guy in charge who is more interested in putting his own brand on the team than improving it, and that sucks. We'll have to see how this plays out, but at the moment things are looking pretty gloomy.

And you making yourself look like an idiot makes it all the better

 

[TobiasFunke]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?

Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

They weren't wrong. I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that." He was pressured by owners who said, "We don't want another big star going to the Lakers," and that's why he vetoed. It was a terrible move, it makes Stern and the NBA look awful. It was collusion, and unethical. The fact that the Clippers would make a dumb trade a week later has no bearing on that.

So far it's everything I hoped it would be. I knew I'd get the hilarious victim mentality, but I particularly like the "I know exactly what happened, even though I not only have no first-hand knowledge but it hasn't even been reported" angle. Didn't see that one coming.

Anything else?

d.

I didn't write that I knew exactly what happened. I'm simply writing what I believe. I don't claim to have any truth to back it up. But neither do you. I base my assumption on the Gilbert letter, which never discusses whether or not New Orleans can get a better deal, but only if the Lakers should be allowed to get another superstar. That was enough for me to reach my conclusion. But it's not proof. You and Cliff and all the Laker haters are gleeful right now, and you should be. First we get screwed by the league, then we follow it up with a catastrophic move that not even Jmon is willing to defend anymore. It appears we have a new guy in charge who is more interested in putting his own brand on the team than improving it, and that sucks. We'll have to see how this plays out, but at the moment things are looking pretty gloomy.

I'm not gleeful because I hate the Lakers. I'm amused because I find it hilarious when people rush to judgment without knowing the facts, are proven wrong in time, and then are left with egg on their faces. It's even funnier when they try to make increasingly ridiculous arguments while they try to backtrack. Call me juvenile if you want, but I think that's just really funny.

 

[JMon348]

With the NBA owning the Hornets and all the complaining they were doing about wanting a competitive balance, it's unlikely Paul gets traded in a "salary dump" type move to a top team.

 

[timschochet]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?

Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

They weren't wrong. I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that." He was pressured by owners who said, "We don't want another big star going to the Lakers," and that's why he vetoed. It was a terrible move, it makes Stern and the NBA look awful. It was collusion, and unethical. The fact that the Clippers would make a dumb trade a week later has no bearing on that.

So far it's everything I hoped it would be. I knew I'd get the hilarious victim mentality, but I particularly like the "I know exactly what happened, even though I not only have no first-hand knowledge but it hasn't even been reported" angle. Didn't see that one coming.

Anything else?

d.

I didn't write that I knew exactly what happened. I'm simply writing what I believe. I don't claim to have any truth to back it up. But neither do you. I base my assumption on the Gilbert letter, which never discusses whether or not New Orleans can get a better deal, but only if the Lakers should be allowed to get another superstar. That was enough for me to reach my conclusion. But it's not proof. You and Cliff and all the Laker haters are gleeful right now, and you should be. First we get screwed by the league, then we follow it up with a catastrophic move that not even Jmon is willing to defend anymore. It appears we have a new guy in charge who is more interested in putting his own brand on the team than improving it, and that sucks. We'll have to see how this plays out, but at the moment things are looking pretty gloomy.

I'm not gleeful because I hate the Lakers. I'm amused because I find it hilarious when people rush to judgment without knowing the facts, are proven wrong in time, and then are left with egg on their faces. It's even funnier when they try to make increasingly ridiculous arguments while they try to backtrack. Call me juvenile if you want, but I think that's just really funny.

You're quite welcome to find my arguments increasingly ridiculous, but to claim that I have tried to backtrack is simply false. I have not. Can't speak for others.

 

[scoobygang]

I'm not gleeful because I hate the Lakers. I'm amused because I find it hilarious when people rush to judgment without knowing the facts, are proven wrong in time, and then are left with egg on their faces. It's even funnier when they try to make increasingly ridiculous arguments while they try to backtrack. Call me juvenile if you want, but I think that's just really funny.

I don't think any of those things have happened.

 

[Abraham]

I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that."

Seriously? Kevin Martin, Scola, Odom, and a mid-first round pick for the top point guard in the game? The first offer to come across the table was so obviously the best they could do before anyone else had evne gotten involved?

 

[timschochet]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?

Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

They weren't wrong. I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that." He was pressured by owners who said, "We don't want another big star going to the Lakers," and that's why he vetoed. It was a terrible move, it makes Stern and the NBA look awful. It was collusion, and unethical. The fact that the Clippers would make a dumb trade a week later has no bearing on that.

So far it's everything I hoped it would be. I knew I'd get the hilarious victim mentality, but I particularly like the "I know exactly what happened, even though I not only have no first-hand knowledge but it hasn't even been reported" angle. Didn't see that one coming.

Anything else?

d.

I didn't write that I knew exactly what happened. I'm simply writing what I believe. I don't claim to have any truth to back it up. But neither do you. I base my assumption on the Gilbert letter, which never discusses whether or not New Orleans can get a better deal, but only if the Lakers should be allowed to get another superstar. That was enough for me to reach my conclusion. But it's not proof. You and Cliff and all the Laker haters are gleeful right now, and you should be. First we get screwed by the league, then we follow it up with a catastrophic move that not even Jmon is willing to defend anymore. It appears we have a new guy in charge who is more interested in putting his own brand on the team than improving it, and that sucks. We'll have to see how this plays out, but at the moment things are looking pretty gloomy.

And you making yourself look like an idiot makes it all the better

It's quite ironic that you of all people should be calling me an idiot. I won't return the favor, because that would be rude and against the stated rules here of being "excellent to each other"- I try to abide by this even if some don't. But if I were you I wouldn't be using that word too often, unless you want people to associate it with you more than they do now (which is already most of the time.)

 

[timschochet]

I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that."

Seriously? Kevin Martin, Scola, Odom, and a mid-first round pick for the top point guard in the game? The first offer to come across the table was so obviously the best they could do before anyone else had evne gotten involved?

What I'm saying is that I don't think specifics of the trade were the first consideration for Stern. I think it was that the owners were upset that Paul was going to the Lakers. I base this on the Gilbert letter and his "Washington Generals" comment.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I think the haul from the Clippers is far more attractive from the standpoint of an incoming owner's perspective than what NO was to receive in LA/HOU 3 way, which is the NBA's top priority, and likely where their interests diverged from Demp's interests. It was very ugly, but I think fans will get over it quickly and Stern-gate will be a blip on the radar a year from now.

I'm extremely disappointed (I think the Lakers run with Kobe and the 3 bigs was over even had they kept Lamar) as I'm a big CP3 fan and believe he would have made the Lakers a better team, and more fun to watch. Oh well. :(

 

[Kev4029]

I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that."

Seriously? Kevin Martin, Scola, Odom, and a mid-first round pick for the top point guard in the game? The first offer to come across the table was so obviously the best they could do before anyone else had evne gotten involved?

What I'm saying is that I don't think specifics of the trade were the first consideration for Stern. I think it was that the owners were upset that Paul was going to the Lakers. I base this on the Gilbert letter and his "Washington Generals" comment.

I would forget about the Gilbert letter, hes a moron and should be ignored. I think that Stern turned down the Lakers trade because he thought it was bad business to take on $30m or whatever it was of aging talent, which makes some sense if you are trying to trade the team. I don't think it was some conspiracy to screw the Lakers.

 

[Kev4029]

I think the haul from the Clippers is far more attractive from the standpoint of an incoming owner's perspective than what NO was to receive in LA/HOU 3 way, which is the NBA's top priority, and likely where their interests diverged from Demp's interests. It was very ugly, but I think fans will get over it quickly and Stern-gate will be a blip on the radar a year from now. I'm extremely disappointed (I think the Lakers run with Kobe and the 3 bigs was over even had they kept Lamar) as I'm a big CP3 fan and believe he would have made the Lakers a better team, and more fun to watch. Oh well. :(

I agree, from the business standpoint the Clippers deal is better, but I really don't think it was a better deal from a basketball standpoint.