*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (9 Viewers)

[thecatch]

Not a top-half of the NBA player.

I guess we can add zeff to the list of people to ignore in this thread

He went off the rails there but Love looks infinitely better in the box score than he does in person on the court. Not a top ten player. Give me Melo to start a franchise over him any day of the week - one can find defense and rebounding more cheaply than top flight scoring (and I'm not a Melo fan, either). And, push comes to shove, you might be able to get some decent defensive possessions out of Melo in the playoffs when the game is on the line and he is properly motivated - Love just physically won't match up with top tier interior scoters no matter how hard he tries.

 

[No. 16]

Not true.

He's certainly never gonna be confused with Bill Russell, but one of the most valuable skills you can have as a defender is preventing the other team from having multiple shot opportunities by getting a defensive rebound. Kevin Love's the best in the league at it.

Yep, right behind being a good defender.

You're not trying to call Melo a good defender, are you?

Absolutely not, hes not even average, but he doesn't get burned too often. Some of that is him trying from time to time and some if it is because there aren't many good SFs in the NBA that he has to guard. Power forward on the other hand has the most talent of any position in the NBA, rivaled only by point guard. The fact that Love covers nobody is exploited on a nightly basis, the fact that Melo is mediocre is only exploited on occasion.

Doesn't matter. In the end it's very hard to say that Melo is a Top 10 NBA player for sure. He's not bad, but he's on the fringe. He can certainly be the leading scorer on a Championship level team, but I can guarantee he wouldn't be the best player on that team.

 

[the moops]

Not a top-half of the NBA player.

I guess we can add zeff to the list of people to ignore in this thread

Curious who is currently on that list?

1) Abraham whenever he mentions trades and Kevin Martin2) Zeff

 

[DaveGrumbles]

He routinely abandons team defense assignments to get into position to hopefully grab a rebound.

So the rest of the team is still playing this 'team defense' thing while the ball is on the way to the basket? Meanwhile that lazy sack of #### Kevin Love is attempting to get in position for a possible rebound? Crazy stuff, man. Guys like that make me sick...no wonder that team sucks.

 

[No. 16]

Not a top-half of the NBA player.

I guess we can add zeff to the list of people to ignore in this thread

Curious who is currently on that list?

1) Abraham whenever he mentions trades and Kevin Martin2) Zeff

Hahaha. The Lakers thread has certainly helped make this thread a lot better than before.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I'm not a big fan, but to act like Carmelo isn't one of the top-10 players in the league is ludicrous.

He isn't.In no particular orderwight LBJWadeRoseCP3Durant DirkKobeAldridgeWestbrookRondoGriffinLove

He's better than lots of those guys right now. Love and Griffin carry more long term value, but Melo is a better overall player. Rondo and Westbrook better than Melo? C'mon now.

What does Melo do better than Love?

Score vs. elite defenders. Which just so happens to be the most important skill in the game.

Hmm scoring....PPG (2011-2012)- Melo: 26.1- Love: 25.6EDGE: MeloTS% (Accounts for FG, FT, and 3 pts % - Tells you how efficient a player scores ALL HIS POINTS)- Melo: 54.4%- Love: 57.3%EDGE: LoveOrtg (Pts scored per 100 possessions)- Melo: 107- Love: 115EDGE: LoveeFG% (Adjusts for 3 pts - efficiency of a players FGA)- Melo: 46.7%- Love: 49.4%EDGE: LoveFT%- Melo: 83%- Love: 80.6%EDGE: MeloUSG%- Melo: 35.4%- Love: 28.7%So as a scorer Melo edges Love in volume and FT%, but Love is waaay more efficient with his offensive possessions. Now I certainly get the difference you are alluding to between Melo vs Love's offensive game. There is great value in a 1 on 1 player like Melo, but at the end of the day the TEAM with the most points wins. Not Melo's points vs. the other team. In a game of basketball where teams get the same number of possessions there's also tons of value in a guy like Love who DOESN'T NEED plays to score 25 ppg and scores those points with ABOVE AVERAGE efficiency vs Melo who scores a little more than Love, but at AVERAGE efficiency.

Why have the T-Wolves been so embarrassingly terrible throughout Love's career then? Again, like Griffin, Love is one of the few players who is appreciably worse defensively than Melo. To stick out as horrible when compared to Melo you have to be really really bad.

Not true.He's certainly never gonna be confused with Bill Russell, but one of the most valuable skills you can have as a defender is preventing the other team from having multiple shot opportunities by getting a defensive rebound. Kevin Love's the best in the league at it.

Kevin Love is laughed at as a defender AND as a rebounder by fellow players...and both for the same reason. He routinely abandons team defense assignments to get into position to hopefully grab a rebound. Grotesquely inflates his rebound numbers, doesn't really hurt his advanced man-on-man defensive stats, and generally looks good in the stat sheet and come payday. Yet at the same time, guarantees that a team that plays the Wolves will have lots more good looks playing them than they will against any other team. Love is the major reason the Wolves stink. He's a stat whore whose stat whoring masks how terrible he is at professional basketball. Probably the most incompetent and negligent team defender in the game who is getting full time minutes.The single most overrated player in all of sports. Not a top-half of the NBA player.

Wow.

Your hate for Kobe has just been trumped!

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Wow.

Your hate for Kobe has just been trumped!

No ####. Zeff has taken his game to a whole 'nother level.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not a top-half of the NBA player.

I guess we can add zeff to the list of people to ignore in this thread

Curious who is currently on that list?

1) Abraham whenever he mentions trades and Kevin Martin2) Zeff

On this subject, went to see the Rockets in person yesterday. Kevin Martin is Kevin Martin, but Lowry is every bit as good as Abraham says. He even shot poorly (4-14), but the game completely changed when he was on the floor. It was like watching a different team on offense. He ended up +20 in a six point win, which is pretty good considering his own shooting woes. Several contenders could use a guy like that.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Not a top-half of the NBA player.

I guess we can add zeff to the list of people to ignore in this thread

He went off the rails there but Love looks infinitely better in the box score than he does in person on the court. Not a top ten player. Give me Melo to start a franchise over him any day of the week - one can find defense and rebounding more cheaply than top flight scoring (and I'm not a Melo fan, either). And, push comes to shove, you might be able to get some decent defensive possessions out of Melo in the playoffs when the game is on the line and he is properly motivated - Love just physically won't match up with top tier interior scoters no matter how hard he tries.

How many teams have legit offensive threats at both the 4 and 5? Lakers, Memphis.... I'm out. It isn't tough to hide Love when he has a bad matchup. He can slide over to the 5 and not be a complete liability against most centers.

 

[Kev4029]

I'm not a big fan, but to act like Carmelo isn't one of the top-10 players in the league is ludicrous.

He isn't.In no particular orderwight LBJWadeRoseCP3Durant DirkKobeAldridgeWestbrookRondoGriffinLove

He's better than lots of those guys right now. Love and Griffin carry more long term value, but Melo is a better overall player. Rondo and Westbrook better than Melo? C'mon now.

What does Melo do better than Love?

Score vs. elite defenders. Which just so happens to be the most important skill in the game.

Hmm scoring....PPG (2011-2012)- Melo: 26.1- Love: 25.6EDGE: MeloTS% (Accounts for FG, FT, and 3 pts % - Tells you how efficient a player scores ALL HIS POINTS)- Melo: 54.4%- Love: 57.3%EDGE: LoveOrtg (Pts scored per 100 possessions)- Melo: 107- Love: 115EDGE: LoveeFG% (Adjusts for 3 pts - efficiency of a players FGA)- Melo: 46.7%- Love: 49.4%EDGE: LoveFT%- Melo: 83%- Love: 80.6%EDGE: MeloUSG%- Melo: 35.4%- Love: 28.7%So as a scorer Melo edges Love in volume and FT%, but Love is waaay more efficient with his offensive possessions. Now I certainly get the difference you are alluding to between Melo vs Love's offensive game. There is great value in a 1 on 1 player like Melo, but at the end of the day the TEAM with the most points wins. Not Melo's points vs. the other team. In a game of basketball where teams get the same number of possessions there's also tons of value in a guy like Love who DOESN'T NEED plays to score 25 ppg and scores those points with ABOVE AVERAGE efficiency vs Melo who scores a little more than Love, but at AVERAGE efficiency.

Why have the T-Wolves been so embarrassingly terrible throughout Love's career then? Again, like Griffin, Love is one of the few players who is appreciably worse defensively than Melo. To stick out as horrible when compared to Melo you have to be really really bad.

The team consists of Kevin Love + 7628763276286 PGs + 87216387623876231 SFs.

Melo's team consists of Chandler, a taller Michael Beasley (Amare is taking over 7 jumpers a game and ) and 0 PGs.

 

[Kev4029]

Not true.

He's certainly never gonna be confused with Bill Russell, but one of the most valuable skills you can have as a defender is preventing the other team from having multiple shot opportunities by getting a defensive rebound. Kevin Love's the best in the league at it.

Yep, right behind being a good defender.

You're not trying to call Melo a good defender, are you?

Absolutely not, hes not even average, but he doesn't get burned too often. Some of that is him trying from time to time and some if it is because there aren't many good SFs in the NBA that he has to guard. Power forward on the other hand has the most talent of any position in the NBA, rivaled only by point guard. The fact that Love covers nobody is exploited on a nightly basis, the fact that Melo is mediocre is only exploited on occasion.

Doesn't matter. In the end it's very hard to say that Melo is a Top 10 NBA player for sure. He's not bad, but he's on the fringe. He can certainly be the leading scorer on a Championship level team, but I can guarantee he wouldn't be the best player on that team.

I don't think hes top 10, but hes top 15.

 

[Instinctive]

Not a top-half of the NBA player.

I guess we can add zeff to the list of people to ignore in this thread

He went off the rails there but Love looks infinitely better in the box score than he does in person on the court. Not a top ten player. Give me Melo to start a franchise over him any day of the week - one can find defense and rebounding more cheaply than top flight scoring (and I'm not a Melo fan, either). And, push comes to shove, you might be able to get some decent defensive possessions out of Melo in the playoffs when the game is on the line and he is properly motivated - Love just physically won't match up with top tier interior scoters no matter how hard he tries.

How many teams have legit offensive threats at both the 4 and 5? Lakers, Memphis.... I'm out. It isn't tough to hide Love when he has a bad matchup. He can slide over to the 5 and not be a complete liability against most centers.

Orlando?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Not a top-half of the NBA player.

I guess we can add zeff to the list of people to ignore in this thread

He went off the rails there but Love looks infinitely better in the box score than he does in person on the court. Not a top ten player. Give me Melo to start a franchise over him any day of the week - one can find defense and rebounding more cheaply than top flight scoring (and I'm not a Melo fan, either). And, push comes to shove, you might be able to get some decent defensive possessions out of Melo in the playoffs when the game is on the line and he is properly motivated - Love just physically won't match up with top tier interior scoters no matter how hard he tries.

How many teams have legit offensive threats at both the 4 and 5? Lakers, Memphis.... I'm out. It isn't tough to hide Love when he has a bad matchup. He can slide over to the 5 and not be a complete liability against most centers.

Orlando?

Who? Anderson? Stop him from shooting 3's. Not exactly a tough cover at the 4 spot.

 

[Kev4029]

Not a top-half of the NBA player.

I guess we can add zeff to the list of people to ignore in this thread

He went off the rails there but Love looks infinitely better in the box score than he does in person on the court. Not a top ten player. Give me Melo to start a franchise over him any day of the week - one can find defense and rebounding more cheaply than top flight scoring (and I'm not a Melo fan, either). And, push comes to shove, you might be able to get some decent defensive possessions out of Melo in the playoffs when the game is on the line and he is properly motivated - Love just physically won't match up with top tier interior scoters no matter how hard he tries.

How many teams have legit offensive threats at both the 4 and 5? Lakers, Memphis.... I'm out. It isn't tough to hide Love when he has a bad matchup. He can slide over to the 5 and not be a complete liability against most centers.

Orlando?

Utah, Atlanta, and Indiana as well.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Not a top-half of the NBA player.

I guess we can add zeff to the list of people to ignore in this thread

Curious who is currently on that list?

1) Abraham whenever he mentions trades and Kevin Martin2) Zeff

On this subject, went to see the Rockets in person yesterday. Kevin Martin is Kevin Martin, but Lowry is every bit as good as Abraham says. He even shot poorly (4-14), but the game completely changed when he was on the floor. It was like watching a different team on offense. He ended up +20 in a six point win, which is pretty good considering his own shooting woes. Several contenders could use a guy like that.

Lowry should be an All Star this year. Memphis kept the wrong PG.

 

[thecatch]

Not a top-half of the NBA player.

I guess we can add zeff to the list of people to ignore in this thread

He went off the rails there but Love looks infinitely better in the box score than he does in person on the court. Not a top ten player. Give me Melo to start a franchise over him any day of the week - one can find defense and rebounding more cheaply than top flight scoring (and I'm not a Melo fan, either). And, push comes to shove, you might be able to get some decent defensive possessions out of Melo in the playoffs when the game is on the line and he is properly motivated - Love just physically won't match up with top tier interior scoters no matter how hard he tries.

How many teams have legit offensive threats at both the 4 and 5? Lakers, Memphis.... I'm out. It isn't tough to hide Love when he has a bad matchup. He can slide over to the 5 and not be a complete liability against most centers.

Just about all the playoff caliber teams have a competent scoring big, and you screw up the rest of your defense if you have to switch Love to the 5, because he certainly can't protect the rim as an off ball defender. Plus, its not like you have to be an elite offensive player to do damage against Love.

 

[Kev4029]

Not a top-half of the NBA player.

I guess we can add zeff to the list of people to ignore in this thread

He went off the rails there but Love looks infinitely better in the box score than he does in person on the court. Not a top ten player. Give me Melo to start a franchise over him any day of the week - one can find defense and rebounding more cheaply than top flight scoring (and I'm not a Melo fan, either). And, push comes to shove, you might be able to get some decent defensive possessions out of Melo in the playoffs when the game is on the line and he is properly motivated - Love just physically won't match up with top tier interior scoters no matter how hard he tries.

How many teams have legit offensive threats at both the 4 and 5? Lakers, Memphis.... I'm out. It isn't tough to hide Love when he has a bad matchup. He can slide over to the 5 and not be a complete liability against most centers.

Orlando?

Who? Anderson? Stop him from shooting 3's. Not exactly a tough cover at the 4 spot.

Stretch 4s are probably the hardest cover for Love.

 

[scoobus]

I'm not sure I've seen more than 5 games of him in the NBA, but I watched every FIBA game in 2010. Kevin Love is so incredibly bad at defense it's embarrassing, ridiculously frustrating. Completely changed the game when he was on the court. On ball and help defense, just terrible.

I'm not quite at Zeff's level, but I do find Kevin Love to be horribly overrated and am not surprised the T-Wolves don't and won't win with him. Although that's not even close to all his fault, if he really is a top 10 player as some are suggesting, then there is no reason that they should be this bad.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Kevin Love is the new Juan Pierre.

 

[the moops]

if he really is a top 10 player as some are suggesting, then there is no reason that they should be this bad.

They are only 1 game out the 8th seed in the West.

 

[Eastwood]

Irving is good. REAL good.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Question...

is the rest (days off) between playoff games being adjusted like the regular season?

 

[Instinctive]

Link!

Smoke......smoke......smoke.......fire? LOOOOONG way off.

 

[Premier]

I forget. What's the age minimum now for the draft? Did it change?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Irving is good. REAL good.

People who suggested Williams should have been the pick were dead wrong. Kyrie is legit.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Boozer with 26 points..

At the half.

 

[JMon348]

The Heat have outscored the Spurs 39-10 in the 3rd quarter.

 

[biggamer3]

Knicks these past 15 games have almost turned me off from watching them until Baron comes back. Even when they were beating horrible teams like Charlotte and Washington, they looked terrible. The selfishness of Amar'e, Melo, Shump, Douglas is frustrating to watch. No one ever looks to pass and Amar'e either just barges into a waiting defenders chest for a charge or takes 20 foot jumpers

 

[EYLive]

Knicks these past 15 games have almost turned me off from watching them until Baron comes back.

ouch, I don't think it'll get much better with him.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Knicks these past 15 games have almost turned me off from watching them until Baron comes back. Even when they were beating horrible teams like Charlotte and Washington, they looked terrible. The selfishness of Amar'e, Melo, Shump, Douglas is frustrating to watch. No one ever looks to pass and Amar'e either just barges into a waiting defenders chest for a charge or takes 20 foot jumpers

So adding a completely selfless player like Baron should fix this, right?

 

[Britney Spears]

The Heat have outscored the Spurs 39-10 in the 3rd quarter.

What a choke by LeBron, giving up 10 points.

 

[Kev4029]

Knicks these past 15 games have almost turned me off from watching them until Baron comes back. Even when they were beating horrible teams like Charlotte and Washington, they looked terrible. The selfishness of Amar'e, Melo, Shump, Douglas is frustrating to watch. No one ever looks to pass and Amar'e either just barges into a waiting defenders chest for a charge or takes 20 foot jumpers

So adding a completely selfless player like Baron should fix this, right?

Sadly, compared to Shumpert and Douglas he might as well be John Stockton.

 

[biggamer3]

Knicks these past 15 games have almost turned me off from watching them until Baron comes back. Even when they were beating horrible teams like Charlotte and Washington, they looked terrible. The selfishness of Amar'e, Melo, Shump, Douglas is frustrating to watch. No one ever looks to pass and Amar'e either just barges into a waiting defenders chest for a charge or takes 20 foot jumpers

So adding a completely selfless player like Baron should fix this, right?

I would think Barons words have some value. All the interviews I read from him, he has said he has taken offense to people thinking he is a shoot first guard and can't wait to start showing off his passing skills

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Knicks these past 15 games have almost turned me off from watching them until Baron comes back. Even when they were beating horrible teams like Charlotte and Washington, they looked terrible. The selfishness of Amar'e, Melo, Shump, Douglas is frustrating to watch. No one ever looks to pass and Amar'e either just barges into a waiting defenders chest for a charge or takes 20 foot jumpers

So adding a completely selfless player like Baron should fix this, right?

I would think Barons words have some value. All the interviews I read from him, he has said he has taken offense to people thinking he is a shoot first guard and can't wait to start showing off his passing skills

I wouldn't. The guy doesn't have a very good track record.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Knicks these past 15 games have almost turned me off from watching them until Baron comes back. Even when they were beating horrible teams like Charlotte and Washington, they looked terrible. The selfishness of Amar'e, Melo, Shump, Douglas is frustrating to watch. No one ever looks to pass and Amar'e either just barges into a waiting defenders chest for a charge or takes 20 foot jumpers

So adding a completely selfless player like Baron should fix this, right?

I would think Barons words have some value. All the interviews I read from him, he has said he has taken offense to people thinking he is a shoot first guard and can't wait to start showing off his passing skills

Secondly, I want to make sure you know that EVERYONE at the Clippers is committed to doing whatever is necessary to make sure that you don't have to deal with another year like the one that just ended. I'm dedicating myself to that goal, and I know my teammates will do the same.

--Baron Davis, letter to Clippers fans after the 08-09 season.The next season he shot 40% from the field and 28% from three and was heckled by his owner for being out of shape.

ETA: Also, the team was 29-53.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Knicks these past 15 games have almost turned me off from watching them until Baron comes back. Even when they were beating horrible teams like Charlotte and Washington, they looked terrible. The selfishness of Amar'e, Melo, Shump, Douglas is frustrating to watch. No one ever looks to pass and Amar'e either just barges into a waiting defenders chest for a charge or takes 20 foot jumpers

So adding a completely selfless player like Baron should fix this, right?

I would think Barons words have some value. All the interviews I read from him, he has said he has taken offense to people thinking he is a shoot first guard and can't wait to start showing off his passing skills

Secondly, I want to make sure you know that EVERYONE at the Clippers is committed to doing whatever is necessary to make sure that you don't have to deal with another year like the one that just ended. I'm dedicating myself to that goal, and I know my teammates will do the same.

--Baron Davis, letter to Clippers fans after the 08-09 season.The next season he shot 40% from the field and 28% from three and was heckled by his owner for being out of shape.

ETA: Also, the team was 29-53.

But he really means it this time. Honestly, he does. Just ask him.

 

[Gr00vus]

Knicks these past 15 games have almost turned me off from watching them until Baron comes back. Even when they were beating horrible teams like Charlotte and Washington, they looked terrible. The selfishness of Amar'e, Melo, Shump, Douglas is frustrating to watch. No one ever looks to pass and Amar'e either just barges into a waiting defenders chest for a charge or takes 20 foot jumpers

So adding a completely selfless player like Baron should fix this, right?

I would think Barons words have some value. All the interviews I read from him, he has said he has taken offense to people thinking he is a shoot first guard and can't wait to start showing off his passing skills

Secondly, I want to make sure you know that EVERYONE at the Clippers is committed to doing whatever is necessary to make sure that you don't have to deal with another year like the one that just ended. I'm dedicating myself to that goal, and I know my teammates will do the same.

--Baron Davis, letter to Clippers fans after the 08-09 season.The next season he shot 40% from the field and 28% from three and was heckled by his owner for being out of shape.

ETA: Also, the team was 29-53.

But he really means it this time. Honestly, he does. Just ask him.

Well, technically he did deliver something different from the previous season. In the given quote he never said it would be better than the previous season.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Knicks these past 15 games have almost turned me off from watching them until Baron comes back. Even when they were beating horrible teams like Charlotte and Washington, they looked terrible. The selfishness of Amar'e, Melo, Shump, Douglas is frustrating to watch. No one ever looks to pass and Amar'e either just barges into a waiting defenders chest for a charge or takes 20 foot jumpers

So adding a completely selfless player like Baron should fix this, right?

I would think Barons words have some value. All the interviews I read from him, he has said he has taken offense to people thinking he is a shoot first guard and can't wait to start showing off his passing skills

Secondly, I want to make sure you know that EVERYONE at the Clippers is committed to doing whatever is necessary to make sure that you don't have to deal with another year like the one that just ended. I'm dedicating myself to that goal, and I know my teammates will do the same.

--Baron Davis, letter to Clippers fans after the 08-09 season.The next season he shot 40% from the field and 28% from three and was heckled by his owner for being out of shape.

ETA: Also, the team was 29-53.

But he really means it this time. Honestly, he does. Just ask him.

Well, technically he did deliver something different from the previous season. In the given quote he never said it would be better than the previous season.

Touche.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

This Knicks experiment is going well.

Things are bad when your anxiously awaiting the return of a washed up fat PG.

 

[RoxSolid]

Andre Miller was ridiculous tonight. Heck of a player to have at your disposal off the bench.

 

[Britney Spears]

How about my Wizards?

 

[Kraft...]

Andre Miller was ridiculous tonight. Heck of a player to have at your disposal off the bench.

Tough line to leave on your Fantasy hoops bench, Hi Brit

 

[Kev4029]

Andre Miller was ridiculous tonight. Heck of a player to have at your disposal off the bench.

He absolutely owned the 4th quarter. He is the most incredible player in the NBA to me. Hes old, slow, chubby, hes a fairly poor athlete, he can't shoot but he still manages to be a very effective player. You would think that would be a recipe for disaster for a 35 year old point guard but he looks the same as he did a decade ago, I don't think hes ever missed a game, and statistically he is the same player today as hes been his entire career. Its really fascinating to me. Andre Miller is going to end up with a career stat line of something like (assuming two years after this one):16500 points, 8500 assists, 4800 reboundsIsiah Thomas: 18800, 9100, 3500Lenny Wilkens: 17800, 7200, 5000Gary Payton: 21800, 9000, 5300Bob Cousy: 17000, 7000, 4800Tiny Archibald: 16500, 6500, 2000He is going to compile the statistics similar to five of the best ten or so PGs in NBA history. Obviously hes not a hall of famer, but he deserves a lot of credit for being a very good player for a long career. The Rafael Palmaro of the NBA... minus the steroids.

 

[DaveGrumbles]

This Knicks experiment is going well.Things are bad when your anxiously awaiting the return of a washed up fat PG.

This is a massive mismatch of coach to personnel...unsure why the failure is such a surprise. Give credit to D'Antoni for squeezing more out of his NBA coaching career with Steve Nash than Paul Westhead did out of his with Magic Johnson.

 

[Max Power]

This Knicks experiment is going well.Things are bad when your anxiously awaiting the return of a washed up fat PG.

This is a massive mismatch of coach to personnel...unsure why the failure is such a surprise. Give credit to D'Antoni for squeezing more out of his NBA coaching career with Steve Nash than Paul Westhead did out of his with Magic Johnson.

The Knicks have no depth and their starting Lineup isn't impressive outside the front court. This is what happens when you move 3-4 startable players for one. Its going to take a few years to add the right pieces to that roster. I really think things will get much worse before they get better in NY.

 

[Britney Spears]

Andre Miller was ridiculous tonight. Heck of a player to have at your disposal off the bench.

Tough line to leave on your Fantasy hoops bench, Hi Brit

At least I was able to slot in Dudley!

 

[Raider Nation]

As far as well-rounded basketball players go, Blake Griffin is a great dunker.

 

[Max Power]

How about my Wizards?

a win against the best record in basketball. A step in the right direction.On a side note, I had no idea that Rashard Lewis is the second highest paid player in the NBA

 

[Max Power]

As far as well-rounded basketball players go, Blake Griffin is a great dunker.

I want to like Blake, but something about his attitude pisses me off. He plays physical, but when someone gets physical with him he acts like he wants to fight them. Take a hard foul, shoot your FTs and move on.

 

[Raider Nation]

As far as well-rounded basketball players go, Blake Griffin is a great dunker.

I want to like Blake, but something about his attitude pisses me off. He plays physical, but when someone gets physical with him he acts like he wants to fight them. Take a hard foul, shoot your FTs and move on.

And it would be nice if he actually, you know, MADE one of those FTs now and then.