*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (2 Viewers)

[Good Posting Judge]

Would anyone claim that MJ in his prime wouldn't be just as great today? Of course not. 1986 was not THAT long ago.

I would.He'd still be great, and certainly HOF caliber, but he could not dominate today's game the way he dominated the 90's. Nil chance he could roll off six "straight" titles now.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Zero shot attempts from LeBron in Clutch Time. Typical shirk job. They even took him out with 28 seconds left instead of watch him play hot potato with the ball. Just once I'd like to see that guy show up in a big game. You don't become a legend putting up big numbers against the Wizards and Hawks, LeBron.

Not an NBA fan but I think the performance in Game 6 in Boston witht the back against the wall was a little clutch....but again I am no NBA fan so I could be waaaaay off.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

great run by the celts.

glad to see them get a deserved ovation when garnett / Allen / pierce exited. i really wonder how rondo will react playing for rebuilding team. i think the underrated thing the vets did was keeping him under control.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

What are the chances of Garnett coming back?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

It was a ballsy set of moves by Ainge, and overall it worked. Holy God what the #### is Lebron wearing at the presser.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Can't wait to hear how many people have lost all respect for Rondo and KG for leaving the court before the final buzzer.

The Pistons got killed for doing that to the Bulls back in '91, but I'll bet no one talks about this tonight. ESPN sure won't, given how much they are on the nutsack of Boston.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

When Boston loses, America wins.

 

[Premier]

When Boston loses, America wins.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Can't wait to hear how many people have lost all respect for Rondo and KG for leaving the court before the final buzzer.

The Pistons got killed for doing that to the Bulls back in '91, but I'll bet no one talks about this tonight. ESPN sure won't, given how much they are on the nutsack of Boston.

The Pistons learned it from the Bird/Mchale Celtics, who pulled the same stunt on them in 88. LeBron got destroyed for leaving the court early when CLE got eliminated by ORL in 09. ####### destroyed.

Oh, I remember. But don't expect the media to hold Rondo and Garnett to the same standard.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

It was a ballsy set of moves by Ainge, and overall it worked. Holy God what the #### is Lebron wearing at the presser.

My link

Frills? JR Rider is coughing blunt smoke out somewhere right now.

 

[[icon]]

JMon> what's your PayPal? TIA.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I'm pulling the chain of the folks pushing the "clutchness" narrative upon us, and the efforts LeBron's critics will make moving the goal posts to deny LeBron's "clutchness" when he plays well in a big game.

Just wait till the Heat lose the Finals and the usual suspects dog him for not winning a ring again, even though OKC is the favorite and quite clearly the better team heading into the Finals. But just think if the Heat win...

 

[timschochet]

OK, prediction:

The game goes back and forth the whole way until about 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter. At that point Miami takes control. They will win by a comfortable 10-12 points. LeBron will have a good, not great game. Wade will have a much better game offensively than in the last two games. Pierce and Rondo will play very well. But the key to this game will be Bosh's presence on defense; he will help to neutralize Garnett in the post.

Miami 102, Boston 90.

Let's grade this prediction..."The game goes back and forth the whole way until about 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter".

There were 19 lead changes tonight, the last of which happened with 7;58 left in the 4th quarter. Full credit for the back-and-forth part, extra credit for nailing the turning point right down to the possession it happened.

"At that point Miami takes control. They will win by a comfortable 10-12 points."

LeBron's dunk with 7:58 left made it 83-82 MIA. Not only did MIA win comfortably by 13, BOS never even got a shot off to tie or take the lead in the last 8 minutes. The next possession was the Pierce turnover where Wade called timeout before the held ball scrum broke out. Then Bosh hit a three, and BOS never got closer than 4 the rest of the way. Some might ding you because the final differential was outside your window, but I'm giving you full credit because you were on the correct side of the spread, and folks following your advice would have stayed away from the 1Q- or 1H lines, and could have doubled up on a halftime line and cashed winning tickets following your advice.

"LeBron will have a good, not great game."

99% of NBA players would be thrilled to put 31-and-12 in a Game 7 win,great. By LeBron's normal standards it was good-not-great because of the low FG% and lack of hustle stats other than rebounds, but by his perceived performance in big games it was great. A good, not great call.

"Wade will have a much better game offensively than in the last two games."

An improvement over Game 6 for sure, about the same as Game 5 which wasn't all that bad offensively. While the letter of the call wasn't great, the spirit was there. Neither helps nor hurts the overall impression.

"Pierce and Rondo will play very well."

Missed on Pierce. Started cold, hit a couple shots in the 2nd to get the team going, didn't really distinguish himself defensively, and made a couple of bad plays as MIA was taking over.

Rondo was fantastic. Correct call, but IMO low level of difficulty as Rondo is a known mismatch for MIA.

"But the key to this game will be Bosh's presence on defense; he will help to neutralize Garnett in the post."

You were correct to be long on Bosh when a lot of folks, including me, we shorting him. He took some of the rebounding burden off of LeBron which stretched out LBJ's fuel supply, and hit a couple of big shots in the fourth when BOS was ready to sell out on stopping LeBron and Wade.

"Miami 102, Boston 90."

Overall I have to give this prediction an "A". There were a few quibbles with individual projections, but the call on the flow of the game and final result were so good they neutralized nitpicks on the small stuff. You were on the correct side of the spread, total, knew to avoid the 1H line, and had the game mapped out well enough for those wont to hitting halftime lines would have banged the correct side there, too.

And it was all luck, too. I have never come this close to predicting an outcome of a game correctly and I likely never will again.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

I agree, and I'll go one step further. I think if you could magically plop the '86 Celtics into these playoffs, they'd win the crown. They are the best team I've personally ever seen. MOST people disagree, and I may be off my rocker, but I'm not so sure.I keep hearing the "athleticism" argument. These players are too athletic for the '86 Celtics.

Jerry Sichting would guard Lebron one-on-one and would shut him down.

 

[Daywalker]

I agree, and I'll go one step further. I think if you could magically plop the '86 Celtics into these playoffs, they'd win the crown. They are the best team I've personally ever seen. MOST people disagree, and I may be off my rocker, but I'm not so sure.I keep hearing the "athleticism" argument. These players are too athletic for the '86 Celtics.

Jerry Sichting would guard Lebron one-on-one and would shut him down.

Magic, Kareem and Worthy are as athletic as anyone playing today and the 80's Celtics were just as good as them.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I agree, and I'll go one step further. I think if you could magically plop the '86 Celtics into these playoffs, they'd win the crown. They are the best team I've personally ever seen. MOST people disagree, and I may be off my rocker, but I'm not so sure.I keep hearing the "athleticism" argument. These players are too athletic for the '86 Celtics.

Jerry Sichting would guard Lebron one-on-one and would shut him down.

Magic, Kareem and Worthy are as athletic as anyone playing today and the 80's Celtics were just as good as them.

This just isn't true. I'm sorry.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I agree, and I'll go one step further. I think if you could magically plop the '86 Celtics into these playoffs, they'd win the crown. They are the best team I've personally ever seen. MOST people disagree, and I may be off my rocker, but I'm not so sure.I keep hearing the "athleticism" argument. These players are too athletic for the '86 Celtics.

Jerry Sichting would guard Lebron one-on-one and would shut him down.

The game is light years better than it was in the 80s.

 

[Raider Nation]

I agree, and I'll go one step further. I think if you could magically plop the '86 Celtics into these playoffs, they'd win the crown. They are the best team I've personally ever seen. MOST people disagree, and I may be off my rocker, but I'm not so sure.I keep hearing the "athleticism" argument. These players are too athletic for the '86 Celtics.

Jerry Sichting would guard Lebron one-on-one and would shut him down.

The game is light years better than it was in the 80s.

LOL. LeBron is a hideous matchup for any team, any era.Now tell me that the '86 Celtics wouldn't KILL Miami in the paint.

 

[Raider Nation]

And D.J. would shut down Wade, so LeBron would be playing 1-on-5 like usual.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

And D.J. would shut down Wade, so LeBron would be playing 1-on-5 like usual.

Or Bobby Jones. With Moses, Doctor J, Toney and Cheeks.

 

[Mile High]

I agree, and I'll go one step further. I think if you could magically plop the '86 Celtics into these playoffs, they'd win the crown. They are the best team I've personally ever seen. MOST people disagree, and I may be off my rocker, but I'm not so sure.I keep hearing the "athleticism" argument. These players are too athletic for the '86 Celtics.

Jerry Sichting would guard Lebron one-on-one and would shut him down.

Magic, Kareem and Worthy are as athletic as anyone playing today and the 80's Celtics were just as good as them.

This just isn't true. I'm sorry.

They may not be as athletic but they are better BB players.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'm pulling the chain of the folks pushing the "clutchness" narrative upon us, and the efforts LeBron's critics will make moving the goal posts to deny LeBron's "clutchness" when he plays well in a big game.

Just wait till the Heat lose the Finals and the usual suspects dog him for not winning a ring again, even though OKC is the favorite and quite clearly the better team heading into the Finals. But just think if the Heat win...

I don't think that's clear at all. The Heat have the best player, and in hoops that means more than in any other team sport. I'll be pulling for OKC, but with LeBron locked in, I think it's a toss-up. The Heat's ability to clamp down defensively is exceptional, and OKC doesn't have an offensive 5 to take advantage of the Heat's biggest weakness. I think OKC would have beaten Boston in 5, but they'll be lucky to get past this Heat team. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Mile High]

I'm pulling the chain of the folks pushing the "clutchness" narrative upon us, and the efforts LeBron's critics will make moving the goal posts to deny LeBron's "clutchness" when he plays well in a big game.

Just wait till the Heat lose the Finals and the usual suspects dog him for not winning a ring again, even though OKC is the favorite and quite clearly the better team heading into the Finals. But just think if the Heat win...

I don't think that's clear at all. The Heat have the best player, and in hoops that means more than in any other team sport. I'll be pulling for OKC, but with LeBron locked in, I think it's a toss-up. The Heat's ability to clamp down defensively is exceptional, and OKC doesn't have an offensive 5 to take advantage of the Heat's biggest weakness. I think OKC would have beaten Boston in 5, but they'll be lucky to get past this Heat team. I hope I'm wrong.

LeBron isn't that much better then KD

 

[tommyGunZ]

I agree, and I'll go one step further. I think if you could magically plop the '86 Celtics into these playoffs, they'd win the crown. They are the best team I've personally ever seen. MOST people disagree, and I may be off my rocker, but I'm not so sure.I keep hearing the "athleticism" argument. These players are too athletic for the '86 Celtics.

Jerry Sichting would guard Lebron one-on-one and would shut him down.

The game is light years better than it was in the 80s.

LOL. LeBron is a hideous matchup for any team, any era.Now tell me that the '86 Celtics wouldn't KILL Miami in the paint.

I don't think McHale's game would translate well. Neither would the Chief's 8.5 40 speed, though his fall away 18 ftr would be a weapon in any era. Danny Ainge getting punished would be both entertaining and sad.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'm pulling the chain of the folks pushing the "clutchness" narrative upon us, and the efforts LeBron's critics will make moving the goal posts to deny LeBron's "clutchness" when he plays well in a big game.

Just wait till the Heat lose the Finals and the usual suspects dog him for not winning a ring again, even though OKC is the favorite and quite clearly the better team heading into the Finals. But just think if the Heat win...

I don't think that's clear at all. The Heat have the best player, and in hoops that means more than in any other team sport. I'll be pulling for OKC, but with LeBron locked in, I think it's a toss-up. The Heat's ability to clamp down defensively is exceptional, and OKC doesn't have an offensive 5 to take advantage of the Heat's biggest weakness. I think OKC would have beaten Boston in 5, but they'll be lucky to get past this Heat team. I hope I'm wrong.

LeBron isn't that much better then KD

Statistically, Miami has the 2 best players in the series.

 

[Daywalker]

KG/Pierce/Allen aren't exactly jumping out of the building anymore and they nearly had this series. Rondo tremendously atheltic albeit no jumper.

 

[Mile High]

I'm pulling the chain of the folks pushing the "clutchness" narrative upon us, and the efforts LeBron's critics will make moving the goal posts to deny LeBron's "clutchness" when he plays well in a big game.

Just wait till the Heat lose the Finals and the usual suspects dog him for not winning a ring again, even though OKC is the favorite and quite clearly the better team heading into the Finals. But just think if the Heat win...

I don't think that's clear at all. The Heat have the best player, and in hoops that means more than in any other team sport. I'll be pulling for OKC, but with LeBron locked in, I think it's a toss-up. The Heat's ability to clamp down defensively is exceptional, and OKC doesn't have an offensive 5 to take advantage of the Heat's biggest weakness. I think OKC would have beaten Boston in 5, but they'll be lucky to get past this Heat team. I hope I'm wrong.

LeBron isn't that much better then KD

Statistically, Miami has the 2 best players in the series.

Realistically they don't.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

I don't think McHale's game would translate well.

I think McHale's game would translate better today.He is like Tim Duncan. He was so savvy, instinctive, sneaky, and fundamental with his game.

In those days, a defender could grab a guy's jersey to hold him in place. You can't do that today.

McHale would be at: 24 ppg 12 rpg 60% FG

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

I agree, and I'll go one step further. I think if you could magically plop the '86 Celtics into these playoffs, they'd win the crown. They are the best team I've personally ever seen. MOST people disagree, and I may be off my rocker, but I'm not so sure.I keep hearing the "athleticism" argument. These players are too athletic for the '86 Celtics.

Jerry Sichting would guard Lebron one-on-one and would shut him down.

The game is light years better than it was in the 80s.

LOL. LeBron is a hideous matchup for any team, any era.Now tell me that the '86 Celtics wouldn't KILL Miami in the paint.

I don't think McHale's game would translate well.

dumb

 

[Daywalker]

If S. Nash won two MVP's in the 80's many in here would probably snicker at the notion of him doing that in "today's" game. Even with the advanced training of youth soccer.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I don't think McHale's game would translate well.

I think McHale's game would translate better today.He is like Tim Duncan. He was so savvy, instinctive, sneaky, and fundamental with his game.

In those days, a defender could grab a guy's jersey to hold him in place. You can't do that today.

McHale would be at: 24 ppg 12 rpg 60% FG

McHale's far too small to put up those kind of numbers in todays game with his frail frame and below the rim game.

 

[tommyGunZ]

If S. Nash won two MVP's in the 80's many in here would probably snicker at the notion of him doing that in "today's" game. Even with the advanced training of youth soccer.

Nash's 2 MVPs were a bigger travesty than Bradley's split decision W tonight.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

If S. Nash won two MVP's in the 80's many in here would probably snicker at the notion of him doing that in "today's" game. Even with the advanced training of youth soccer.

Nash's 2 MVPs were a bigger travesty than Bradley's split decision W tonight.

No.Just no.And I'm an Iverson/76er fan who was the leading scorer with 30+ points a game in '05.The next year Kobe was, but the Lakers had fallen off without Shaq who won the title in Mia that year.

 

[tommyGunZ]

If S. Nash won two MVP's in the 80's many in here would probably snicker at the notion of him doing that in "today's" game. Even with the advanced training of youth soccer.

Nash's 2 MVPs were a bigger travesty than Bradley's split decision W tonight.

No.Just no.And I'm an Iverson/76er fan who was the leading scorer with 30+ points a game in '05.

Nash is a HOF'er, but in no way was he the best player in the league those seasons. Defense matters.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

If S. Nash won two MVP's in the 80's many in here would probably snicker at the notion of him doing that in "today's" game. Even with the advanced training of youth soccer.

Nash's 2 MVPs were a bigger travesty than Bradley's split decision W tonight.

No.Just no.And I'm an Iverson/76er fan who was the leading scorer with 30+ points a game in '05.

Nash is a HOF'er, but in no way was he the best player in the league those seasons. Defense matters.

I understand your stance on Nash... but DONT say it was a bigger travesty then Bradley/PacMan... its not even close.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I agree, and I'll go one step further. I think if you could magically plop the '86 Celtics into these playoffs, they'd win the crown. They are the best team I've personally ever seen. MOST people disagree, and I may be off my rocker, but I'm not so sure.I keep hearing the "athleticism" argument. These players are too athletic for the '86 Celtics.

Jerry Sichting would guard Lebron one-on-one and would shut him down.

The game is light years better than it was in the 80s.

LOL. LeBron is a hideous matchup for any team, any era.Now tell me that the '86 Celtics wouldn't KILL Miami in the paint.

I don't think McHale's game would translate well. Neither would the Chief's 8.5 40 speed, though his fall away 18 ftr would be a weapon in any era. Danny Ainge getting punished would be both entertaining and sad.

McHale would be even better. he would be destroying these lousy front court players in this era.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I agree, and I'll go one step further. I think if you could magically plop the '86 Celtics into these playoffs, they'd win the crown. They are the best team I've personally ever seen. MOST people disagree, and I may be off my rocker, but I'm not so sure.I keep hearing the "athleticism" argument. These players are too athletic for the '86 Celtics.

Jerry Sichting would guard Lebron one-on-one and would shut him down.

The game is light years better than it was in the 80s.

LOL. LeBron is a hideous matchup for any team, any era.Now tell me that the '86 Celtics wouldn't KILL Miami in the paint.

I don't think McHale's game would translate well. Neither would the Chief's 8.5 40 speed, though his fall away 18 ftr would be a weapon in any era. Danny Ainge getting punished would be both entertaining and sad.

McHale would be even better. he would be destroying these lousy front court players in this era.

Agreed.The 80s had Ballers.

 

[boubucarow]

I'm pulling the chain of the folks pushing the "clutchness" narrative upon us, and the efforts LeBron's critics will make moving the goal posts to deny LeBron's "clutchness" when he plays well in a big game.

Just wait till the Heat lose the Finals and the usual suspects dog him for not winning a ring again, even though OKC is the favorite and quite clearly the better team heading into the Finals. But just think if the Heat win...

I don't think that's clear at all. The Heat have the best player, and in hoops that means more than in any other team sport. I'll be pulling for OKC, but with LeBron locked in, I think it's a toss-up. The Heat's ability to clamp down defensively is exceptional, and OKC doesn't have an offensive 5 to take advantage of the Heat's biggest weakness. I think OKC would have beaten Boston in 5, but they'll be lucky to get past this Heat team. I hope I'm wrong.

LeBron isn't that much better then KD

Yes he is. LeBron is much better than anyone. But the Thunder have much more balanced talent surrounding Durant. I expect a good, possibly great series.

 

[Dentist]

This has the makings of the most entertaining finals any of us have ever seen.Certainly since Lakers/Celts in the 80s for me.

how is this set to be anymore or less entertaining than the lakers celts finals of '10 or '08admittedly i am interested in this year a lot though

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Would the OKC fans please do the honor of firing up a "Finals" thread. I'll do it myself if no one else does later but I thought the OKC fans should do it as it's their first trip to the Finals.

Hats off to the Celtics, they showed just how amazing this run has been for them since 2007/2008. They are one of a handful of relevant teams form this era. Loved the way Lebron embraced Doc Rivers after the game...put Rivers in charge of the Heat and Miami would run away from the rest of the league.

Miami needed that series to push them to the brink, think the Finals will be very entertaining.

 

[Raider Nation]

This has the makings of the most entertaining finals any of us have ever seen.

Certainly since Lakers/Celts in the 80s for me.

how is this set to be anymore or less entertaining than the lakers celts finals of '10 or '08

What was "entertaining" about those recent Boston teams? They clubbed you over the head and took your lunch money. Bad Boys II.LeBron/Wade/Bosh (sort of) vs. Durant/Westbrook/Harden? Sign me up.

 

[Raider Nation]

Would the OKC fans please do the honor of firing up a "Finals" thread. I'll do it myself if no one else does later but I thought the OKC fans should do it as it's their first trip to the Finals.

Something wrong with this thread?

 

[Raider Nation]

ESPN's Magic Johnson expects a terrific series; it is the first time since 1997 that the reigning league MVP will face off against the league's reigning scoring champion."I cannot wait — Big Three Miami vs. Big Three Thunder," Johnson said. "Both sets of threes (Miami's LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh against Oklahoma City's Durant, Westbrook and Harden) averaging almost 68 points combined. I like the pace. It's going to be exciting because you're going to get to see great athletes be great athletes and great scorers be great scorers, and you get Kevin Durant and LeBron James — who'se the best on the planet? They will prove it this series."ESPN's Jon Barry said the matchups appear to favor the Thunder."We'll see no low-post action in this series," he said. "It's going to be small ball. When Oklahoma City is playing small ball, they are an awfully tough matchup."I'll be interested to see if Durant says, 'Give me Lebron — I want LeBron.' It will be a very fun matchup to watch."Both teams might revolve around a trio, but the pundits say it's really about superstar vs. superstar, James vs. Durant."These are the two best players, a lot of people think, on Earth. And they play the same position," ESPN's Chris Broussard said. "They are going to be going against each other a lot. Now we get to see the two go head-to-head, Kevin Durant and LeBron James."Said ESPN's Michael Wilbon: "It's a dream matchup in some ways."

 

[Ghost Rider]

I'm pulling the chain of the folks pushing the "clutchness" narrative upon us, and the efforts LeBron's critics will make moving the goal posts to deny LeBron's "clutchness" when he plays well in a big game.

Just wait till the Heat lose the Finals and the usual suspects dog him for not winning a ring again, even though OKC is the favorite and quite clearly the better team heading into the Finals. But just think if the Heat win...

I don't think that's clear at all. The Heat have the best player, and in hoops that means more than in any other team sport. I'll be pulling for OKC, but with LeBron locked in, I think it's a toss-up. The Heat's ability to clamp down defensively is exceptional, and OKC doesn't have an offensive 5 to take advantage of the Heat's biggest weakness. I think OKC would have beaten Boston in 5, but they'll be lucky to get past this Heat team. I hope I'm wrong.

LeBron isn't that much better then KD

Eh, this is just GunZ calling the Heat the better team (even though OKC is being called better by most, has home court, and is favored in Vegas) so he can rip James with the "He lost in the Finals despite having the better team" line if/when the Heat lose.

 

[Abraham]

This has the makings of the most entertaining finals any of us have ever seen.Certainly since Lakers/Celts in the 80s for me.

how is this set to be anymore or less entertaining than the lakers celts finals of '10 or '08admittedly i am interested in this year a lot though

That series didn't have either of leagues two best players. This series has them both.

 

[Abraham]

Mchale would be awesome in this era.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Mchale would be awesome in this era.

scola/Martin for McHale?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Mchale would be awesome in this era.

scola/Martin for McHale?

lol

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'm pulling the chain of the folks pushing the "clutchness" narrative upon us, and the efforts LeBron's critics will make moving the goal posts to deny LeBron's "clutchness" when he plays well in a big game.

Just wait till the Heat lose the Finals and the usual suspects dog him for not winning a ring again, even though OKC is the favorite and quite clearly the better team heading into the Finals. But just think if the Heat win...

I don't think that's clear at all. The Heat have the best player, and in hoops that means more than in any other team sport. I'll be pulling for OKC, but with LeBron locked in, I think it's a toss-up. The Heat's ability to clamp down defensively is exceptional, and OKC doesn't have an offensive 5 to take advantage of the Heat's biggest weakness. I think OKC would have beaten Boston in 5, but they'll be lucky to get past this Heat team. I hope I'm wrong.

LeBron isn't that much better then KD

Eh, this is just GunZ calling the Heat the better team (even though OKC is being called better by most, has home court, and is favored in Vegas) so he can rip James with the "He lost in the Finals despite having the better team" line if/when the Heat lose.

No, it's recognizing that a healthy Heat team has been the favorite all year, and not getting caught up in a couple of losses in the playoffs when Bosh was hurt. Again, statistically, the Heat have the best two players in this series. Wade's recent inconsistencies apparently have left some with case of amnesia. And we all know Bosh is the best front court player in this series. I'm pulling hard for OKC, but I think the idea that they're going to walk the dog in this series is asinine. It's a coin flip right now, IMO.

 

[timschochet]

Mchale would be awesome in this era.

scola/Martin for McHale?