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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)

I'm pulling hard for OKC, but I think the idea that they're going to walk the dog in this series is asinine. It's a coin flip right now, IMO. :shrug:
60-40 OKC. Speed and depth. If the Celtics had one fast player who gave the Heat fits, imagine what the speed of OKC is going to do. You called Bosh the best front court player in the series and I'm not going to argue, but look for Ibaka to have a big series. The Thunder's best lineup in the playoffs has been when they move Durant to the 4, and now they're free for the first time to do that anytime they choose, and i'm betting they will do it a ton. This will be a good series but I have the Thunder in 6. I think the first game may be a blowout.
 
I'm pulling hard for OKC, but I think the idea that they're going to walk the dog in this series is asinine. It's a coin flip right now, IMO. :shrug:
60-40 OKC. Speed and depth. If the Celtics had one fast player who gave the Heat fits, imagine what the speed of OKC is going to do. You called Bosh the best front court player in the series and I'm not going to argue, but look for Ibaka to have a big series. The Thunder's best lineup in the playoffs has been when they move Durant to the 4, and now they're free for the first time to do that anytime they choose, and i'm betting they will do it a ton. This will be a good series but I have the Thunder in 6. I think the first game may be a blowout.
I think this is about where Vegas has it pegged too, FWIW.
 
I'm pulling the chain of the folks pushing the "clutchness" narrative upon us, and the efforts LeBron's critics will make moving the goal posts to deny LeBron's "clutchness" when he plays well in a big game.
Just wait till the Heat lose the Finals and the usual suspects dog him for not winning a ring again, even though OKC is the favorite and quite clearly the better team heading into the Finals. But just think if the Heat win...
I don't think that's clear at all. The Heat have the best player, and in hoops that means more than in any other team sport. I'll be pulling for OKC, but with LeBron locked in, I think it's a toss-up. The Heat's ability to clamp down defensively is exceptional, and OKC doesn't have an offensive 5 to take advantage of the Heat's biggest weakness. I think OKC would have beaten Boston in 5, but they'll be lucky to get past this Heat team. I hope I'm wrong.
LeBron isn't that much better then KD
Eh, this is just GunZ calling the Heat the better team (even though OKC is being called better by most, has home court, and is favored in Vegas) so he can rip James with the "He lost in the Finals despite having the better team" line if/when the Heat lose.
No, it's recognizing that a healthy Heat team has been the favorite all year, and not getting caught up in a couple of losses in the playoffs when Bosh was hurt. Again, statistically, the Heat have the best two players in this series. Wade's recent inconsistencies apparently have left some with case of amnesia. And we all know Bosh is the best front court player in this series. I'm pulling hard for OKC, but I think the idea that they're going to walk the dog in this series is asinine. It's a coin flip right now, IMO. :shrug:
Wade is statistically better than Durant? Oh, so now you are beating that drum? Funny how you ignored stats for years when arguing that Bryant was still better than James, even though James stats were always better. That aside, no one except you apparently would still put Wade ahead of Durant on the list of the best NBA players right now. James and Durant are 1-2 right now, unquestioned. The fact that the Heat were the favorite all years means nothing. OKC just went 12-3 against the three teams that are perennial powerhouses (all three represented all of the WC champs in the 13 years prior to this one), including running off four straight against a Spurs team that was previously unstoppable. Meanwhile, the Heat just took 7 games to beat a Celtics team that barely got past the 8 seed 76ers in the 2nd round. OKC is the clear cut favorite here, regardless of which team was the favorite for much of the year. But I agree that it will be close and not the rout that a small minority are predicting.

Also, since you are hung up on who the best overall player and the best front court players are, which team has more depth? The better bench? The better 6th man? The better coaching?

 
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I think people just like competition so they are putting Durant on the same tier as Lebron when it really isn't even kind of close. Durant is on the same tier as Howard, Wade, and Paul and probably isn't at the top of that tier. There is no argument to be made that makes Durant the best player in the NBA.

 
I think people just like competition so they are putting Durant on the same tier as Lebron when it really isn't even kind of close. Durant is on the same tier as Howard, Wade, and Paul and probably isn't at the top of that tier. There is no argument to be made that makes Durant the best player in the NBA.
He may not be the absolute best player in the NBA, but couldn't disagree more with just about everything else you wrote.
 
Durant can score from abywhere, and not in a Kobe "I'm going to keep shooting!" kind of way. He is efficient and despite pouring in ton of points, I never get the feeling that durant getting his is at the expense of a teammate scoring.

Lebron is the best player in the league. There are a number of other excellent players like rose and Paul. But durant most certainly belongs in that group and it is easier to argue for him as second best in the league than 6 or 7.

 
Truck, Wilked, Icon.

Double or nothing on the Heat +4.5 in Game 1?

If not, is there any chance as the series goes along we could find another wager? If you want to just pay it off that's fine too.

 
Thunder have been able to limit their turnovers so far in the playoffs. That's going to be much tougher against Miami. Westbrook needs to have a huge series as LeBron is certainly capable of handling Durant. I'm interested to see how physical LeBron is going to be with KD off the ball.

 
Lebron and Battier take turns covering Durant?

Wade covers Westbrook?

Harden on James?

Gonna be an interesting mix between all those guys.

 
I'm pulling the chain of the folks pushing the "clutchness" narrative upon us, and the efforts LeBron's critics will make moving the goal posts to deny LeBron's "clutchness" when he plays well in a big game.
Just wait till the Heat lose the Finals and the usual suspects dog him for not winning a ring again, even though OKC is the favorite and quite clearly the better team heading into the Finals. But just think if the Heat win...
I don't think that's clear at all. The Heat have the best player, and in hoops that means more than in any other team sport. I'll be pulling for OKC, but with LeBron locked in, I think it's a toss-up. The Heat's ability to clamp down defensively is exceptional, and OKC doesn't have an offensive 5 to take advantage of the Heat's biggest weakness. I think OKC would have beaten Boston in 5, but they'll be lucky to get past this Heat team. I hope I'm wrong.
LeBron isn't that much better then KD
Eh, this is just GunZ calling the Heat the better team (even though OKC is being called better by most, has home court, and is favored in Vegas) so he can rip James with the "He lost in the Finals despite having the better team" line if/when the Heat lose.
No, it's recognizing that a healthy Heat team has been the favorite all year, and not getting caught up in a couple of losses in the playoffs when Bosh was hurt. Again, statistically, the Heat have the best two players in this series. Wade's recent inconsistencies apparently have left some with case of amnesia. And we all know Bosh is the best front court player in this series. I'm pulling hard for OKC, but I think the idea that they're going to walk the dog in this series is asinine. It's a coin flip right now, IMO. :shrug:
Wade is statistically better than Durant? Oh, so now you are beating that drum? Funny how you ignored stats for years when arguing that Bryant was still better than James, even though James stats were always better. That aside, no one except you apparently would still put Wade ahead of Durant on the list of the best NBA players right now. James and Durant are 1-2 right now, unquestioned. The fact that the Heat were the favorite all years means nothing. OKC just went 12-3 against the three teams that are perennial powerhouses (all three represented all of the WC champs in the 13 years prior to this one), including running off four straight against a Spurs team that was previously unstoppable. Meanwhile, the Heat just took 7 games to beat a Celtics team that barely got past the 8 seed 76ers in the 2nd round. OKC is the clear cut favorite here, regardless of which team was the favorite for much of the year. But I agree that it will be close and not the rout that a small minority are predicting.

Also, since you are hung up on who the best overall player and the best front court players are, which team has more depth? The better bench? The better 6th man? The better coaching?
I haven't said anything about who I think the best players in the series are, I've only pointed out that statistically Wade is still a better player than Durant, and has been every season since Durant entered the league. It's just funny to hear the same posters who live and die by advanced statistics not only suggesting that Durant is in the same league as LBJ, but also seemingly ignoring the fact that Wade is still Durant's superior per the numbers they always point to as the definitive measure of player value. :shrug:
 
SayIng that Wade is a "statistically" superior player to Durant without any context is a meaningless statement. Which stats are we talking about here? And I think everyone knows you don't actually think Wade is better than Durant. It's weird that you feel you need to approach this conversation with the whole Kobe thing in the back of your mind. This has nothIng to do with Kobe.

 
I'm at a loss for how wade has been statistically better than durant every year. I'm sure there are certain categories and advanced stats and what not, but watching both play it is crystal clear who is the better player.

 
SayIng that Wade is a "statistically" superior player to Durant without any context is a meaningless statement. Which stats are we talking about here? And I think everyone knows you don't actually think Wade is better than Durant. It's weird that you feel you need to approach this conversation with the whole Kobe thing in the back of your mind. This has nothIng to do with Kobe.
This has nothing to do with Kobe, and everything to do with my belief that this series is far more even than most in this thread believe. Pointing out that Wade and Durant's value is far more similar than LBJ and Durant's is central to the point that Miami has a damn good chance to get that first piece of jewelry. Something I have been rooting against for years.
 
So someone break it down for me...

When Miami has it..

Westbrook on Chalmers

Sefalosha on Wade

Durant on James

Ibaka on Battier

Perkins on Bosh

I dont know...does Miami even play with a big man in this series?

When OKC has it....

Chalmers on Westbrook

Wade on Sefalosha

James on Durant

Battier on Ibaka

Bosh on Perkins

Someone fix those TIA

 
SayIng that Wade is a "statistically" superior player to Durant without any context is a meaningless statement. Which stats are we talking about here? And I think everyone knows you don't actually think Wade is better than Durant. It's weird that you feel you need to approach this conversation with the whole Kobe thing in the back of your mind. This has nothIng to do with Kobe.
This has nothing to do with Kobe, and everything to do with my belief that this series is far more even than most in this thread believe. Pointing out that Wade and Durant's value is far more similar than LBJ and Durant's is central to the point that Miami has a damn good chance to get that first piece of jewelry. Something I have been rooting against for years.
I don't think anyone has said this is not a close to even series.
 
I'm at a loss for how wade has been statistically better than durant every year. I'm sure there are certain categories and advanced stats and what not, but watching both play it is crystal clear who is the better player.
Wade bests Durant in virtually every all-encompassing advanced statistical measure. PER is the most famous, but Wade also beats Durant in WS rate and has bettered Durant in those measures in every season that Durant has been in the league.
 
So someone break it down for me...When Miami has it..Westbrook on ChalmersSefalosha on WadeDurant on JamesIbaka on BattierPerkins on BoshI dont know...does Miami even play with a big man in this series?When OKC has it....Chalmers on WestbrookWade on SefaloshaJames on DurantBattier on IbakaBosh on PerkinsSomeone fix those TIA
You are missing Harden who will cover Lebron a bunch
 
So someone break it down for me...When Miami has it..Westbrook on ChalmersSefalosha on WadeDurant on JamesIbaka on BattierPerkins on BoshI dont know...does Miami even play with a big man in this series?When OKC has it....Chalmers on WestbrookWade on SefaloshaJames on DurantBattier on IbakaBosh on PerkinsSomeone fix those TIA
You are missing Harden who will cover Lebron a bunch
Oh ya...damn I like OKC (like nearly everyone else seems like)
 
So someone break it down for me...When Miami has it..Westbrook on ChalmersSefalosha on WadeDurant on JamesIbaka on BattierPerkins on BoshI dont know...does Miami even play with a big man in this series?When OKC has it....Chalmers on WestbrookWade on SefaloshaJames on DurantBattier on IbakaBosh on PerkinsSomeone fix those TIA
You are missing Harden who will cover Lebron a bunch
He's just using the starting lineups. I do hope to see a lot of Westbrook-Harden-Sefolosha-Durant-Perk/Ibaka. Seems like that lineup will cause a lot of matchup problems. I hope Russ plays extremely aggressive this series. I wonder if they put LeBron on him at all. I don't think anyone else can stop him.
 
Too many mismatches for Miami to account for. In crunch time, they may have to actually put Lebron on Westbrook... because he will abuse Chalmers. You have to hope Wade can stick Harden and Battier can play Durant late.

 
Okay, if PER is the standard, then Blake Griffin is now better than Kobe Bryant. Interesting.

And in Bryant's only MVP season, he was only the 8th best player statistically, since PER means everything, right, GunZ?

 
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So someone break it down for me...When Miami has it..Westbrook on ChalmersSefalosha on WadeDurant on JamesIbaka on BattierPerkins on BoshI dont know...does Miami even play with a big man in this series?When OKC has it....Chalmers on WestbrookWade on SefaloshaJames on DurantBattier on IbakaBosh on PerkinsSomeone fix those TIA
You are missing Harden who will cover Lebron a bunch
He's just using the starting lineups. I do hope to see a lot of Westbrook-Harden-Sefolosha-Durant-Perk/Ibaka. Seems like that lineup will cause a lot of matchup problems. I hope Russ plays extremely aggressive this series. I wonder if they put LeBron on him at all. I don't think anyone else can stop him.
I'd be surprised to see Durant on James much. Can't risk the fouls. I think Ibaka draws James, maybe with some Collison off the bench?
 
Okay, if PER is the standard, then Blake Griffin is now better than Kobe Bryant. Interesting.And in Bryant's only MVP season, he was only the 8th best player statistically, since PER means everything, right, GunZ?
:confused: You have me confused with someone else. I'm not saying Wade is better than Durant, I'm just pointing out that his PER has been better than Durant's every year, including this season. I thought many of those who have used advanced statistics as their trump card the past few years may have overlooked them when previewing the Finals matchup. It's easy to dismiss Wade after a few of the clunkers he's thrown up recently.
 
GunZ, why do you think Wade is better statistically than Durant?
PER and WS. Aren't those two of, if not the two most widely accepted mainstream advanced statistics?
Over what time period?
Since Durant came into the league (5 seasons). Wade has bested Durant in PER in all 5 seasons, and bested him in WS/48 in 3 of 5.In fairness, one of the 2 seasons Durant beat Wade in WS/48 was this year, but it was a razor thin margin .230 for KD and .227 for Wade. Again, in fairness, Wade's edge in PER this season was equally thin, 26.3 for Wade and 26.2 for KD.ETA: Point being, from a statistically standpoint, the discussion should be about whether Wade or Durant is more valuable, not if/how Durant and LBJ cancel each other out. Again, from a purely statistical standpoint only, as I don't want anyone confusing these arguments as being my own.
 
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'tommyGunZ said:
'Ghost Rider said:
Okay, if PER is the standard, then Blake Griffin is now better than Kobe Bryant. Interesting.

And in Bryant's only MVP season, he was only the 8th best player statistically, since PER means everything, right, GunZ?
:confused: You have me confused with someone else. I'm not saying Wade is better than Durant, I'm just pointing out that his PER has been better than Durant's every year, including this season. I thought many of those who have used advanced statistics as their trump card the past few years may have overlooked them when previewing the Finals matchup. It's easy to dismiss Wade after a few of the clunkers he's thrown up recently.
Then what exactly is the point of saying that Wade is statistically better than Durant? Honestly, I would almost pick the Heat to win the Finals, but many of these games are likely to be close at the end, and the Thunder have shown an uncanny knack for pulling out the close games, while the Heat seem to struggle in those games that get decided by the last possession or two. if the Thunder need a shot to win it at the end, Harden and Durant have both shown that they can drill them, but I don't have as much confidence in the Heat's ability to do so, probably because Spoelstra always draws up plays where Wade or James dribble most of the time off of the clock while the other four Heat players stand there waiting to see what happens, and then they have to toss up a contested jump shot at the buzzer to try to win/tie it.

 
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'timschochet said:
OK, prediction:

The game goes back and forth the whole way until about 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter. At that point Miami takes control. They will win by a comfortable 10-12 points. LeBron will have a good, not great game. Wade will have a much better game offensively than in the last two games. Pierce and Rondo will play very well. But the key to this game will be Bosh's presence on defense; he will help to neutralize Garnett in the post.

Miami 102, Boston 90.
GREAT call Tim. Not sure why Ferris Bueller felt the need to hit a nail with a sledgehammer in his grading post. :shrug:
'Mr. Pickles said:
Who was that ESPN hag? How do people like that get careers in broadcasting?
I assume you are referring to Doris Burke. As a sideline reporter, she's very good (well, as good as sideline reporters can be). When calling games she's even better. Very underrated bball color commentator.
'Ferris Bueller Fan said:
Zero shot attempts from LeBron in Clutch Time. Typical shirk job. They even took him out with 28 seconds left instead of watch him play hot potato with the ball.

Just once I'd like to see that guy show up in a big game. You don't become a legend putting up big numbers against the Wizards and Hawks, LeBron.
The first time I read this I didn't realize it was complete sarcasm. That's how over the top some of the criticism has been. Yes, LeBron needs to show up at an MVP level in the last minute, hit a game winner, etc but the amount of heat he takes has much, much more to do with The Decision than it does with his game at this point.
'Mr. Pickles said:
Enjoyed the Simmons piece on Grantland. I usually can't stand to read him, but he nailed it.
The article is great. Link :thumbup:
'tommyGunZ said:
I don't think McHale's game would translate well.
Players with one or two offensive moves in the post can be highly effective, but the NBA player with the most post moves in the history of the game wouldn't translate well? :unsure: Turrrible.
'Kev4029 said:
I think people just like competition so they are putting Durant on the same tier as Lebron when it really isn't even kind of close. Durant is on the same tier as Howard, Wade, and Paul and probably isn't at the top of that tier. There is no argument to be made that makes Durant the best player in the NBA.
Durant didn't just show up this postseason and start playing at a high level. The guy is a 3-time scoring champion and took the crown as "best clutch player" in the league from Kobe this season. Durant finished 2nd in MVP voting this season because he earned it and the winning team from this Finals series will rightfully be able to claim the best player in the entire world is the main reason why.
 
Why are you guys discussing Wade like he's in mid-season form? The guy had his knee drained during the Indiana series and clearly isn't at 100% (nobody is at 100% at this point of the season but Wade is definitely more banged up than most players right now).

:confused:

 
I don't like this series at all down low for Miami. Bosh is better than ibaka and Perkins, yes. But I feel the okc guys are better defenders around the basket. If the outside shots aren't falling than Miami may have trouble.

I'll go okc winning 1, 3, 4, and 7

Miami wins 2, 5, and 6.

 
Miami has the best player.

OKC has the better team.

Should be a blast to watch... tempted to take OKC in 5 but i'll give myself a buffer game.

OKC in 6

 
'8ebok24 said:
Truck, Wilked, Icon.Double or nothing on the Heat +4.5 in Game 1?If not, is there any chance as the series goes along we could find another wager? If you want to just pay it off that's fine too.
OK, I will take the OK St side. If I lose again, let's settle up tho...
 
Went hiking Fri morn-this afternoon, was bummed to check my phone and see the score. Celts had a great season... I will be cheering on the Thundahhhh :thumbup:

 
'Ministry of Pain said:
Would the OKC fans please do the honor of firing up a "Finals" thread. I'll do it myself if no one else does later but I thought the OKC fans should do it as it's their first trip to the Finals.
:goodposting: Too many irrelevant posts from fans of irrelevant teams here.
 
'dickey moe said:
'Kev4029 said:
I think people just like competition so they are putting Durant on the same tier as Lebron when it really isn't even kind of close. Durant is on the same tier as Howard, Wade, and Paul and probably isn't at the top of that tier. There is no argument to be made that makes Durant the best player in the NBA.
He may not be the absolute best player in the NBA, but couldn't disagree more with just about everything else you wrote.
Why do you disagree? Do you think Durant belongs in the conversation for best player in the NBA? Do you think he is significantly better than Wade/Paul/Howard?The big difference between the other four I mentioned and Durant is they are all world defenders while Durant is very average.
 

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